Spurs win in spite of Pop's stupidity

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Congrats to the team for laying it all out tonight.

Pop deserves six swift kicks to the junk for a shortened bench and no one taller than 'Dice seeing the floor tonight. Larry Brown is the worst thing to ever happen to Pop's coaching decisions.

This has to be one of if not the worst coached game of Pop's career.

[poop]

the lineups were perfectly fine for this game. they do not have a strong frontline

[baseline bum]

1) Death
2) Taxes
3) AHF bitching about Pop

[ChumpDumper]

You wanted Haislip out there?

[androck]

Manu 0-10 from the field, 2 pts on the night. I don't think that's on Pop (Ginobili did everything else but score though).

[HarlemHeat37]

The lineups weren't fine at all..

At one point, there was a lineup consisting of Parker, Hill, Manu, Mason and Blair..Mason was fucking guarding Jeff Green..luckily the Thunder didn't go to him..

Pop played an 8-man rotation, despite playing against an athletic team that always gives us problems and we were on a b2b..he didn't play an interior defender at all this game and the entire team was clearly dead by the 4th..he should have used the young guys and the bench more IMO..

Pop wasn't the main or only problem, but he coached a poor game tonight IMO..

[NZ Spurs]

Did the Spurs lose?

Pop did his job.

[Pero]

Why didn't Mahinmi and Ratliff play?

[angelbelow]

The lineups weren't fine at all..

At one point, there was a lineup consisting of Parker, Hill, Manu, Mason and Blair..Mason was fucking guarding Jeff Green..luckily the Thunder didn't go to him..

Pop played an 8-man rotation, despite playing against an athletic team that always gives us problems and we were on a b2b..he didn't play an interior defender at all this game and the entire team was clearly dead by the 4th..he should have used the young guys and the bench more IMO..

Pop wasn't the main or only problem, but he coached a poor game tonight IMO..

Agreed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You wanted Haislip out there?

Nope. If only we had a long, lanky, athletic big. Like a 15/9 in his last game type... that we could have put in.

[Kori Ellis]

Voluntarily shortening to an 8-man rotation on a back-to-back is pretty crazy.


And, Parker was obviously exhausted by the half... but hey, in the end, he got a clutch basket at the end of regulation. And the Spurs toughed it out, sucked it up and got the W. So maybe in the long run, a tough, short-manned game like this will help them.

[itzsoweezee]

Did the Spurs lose?

Pop did his job.

spurs won, but no thanks to pop.

[DAF86]

We need shot blockers if he isn't going to play the ones we've got, trade for someone that he trusts.

[ChumpDumper]

Nope. If only we had a long, lanky, athletic big. Like a 15/9 in his last game type... that we could have put in.Eh, I'm not sure he could have done anything with Durant. It would have been nice to see.

[vander]

I would trade this victory to have seen 28 minutes of Ian out there tonight

there won't be another opportunity like this one to evaluate him against legit NBA talent, soon Bonner will return, Blair and McDyess continue to improve in the Spurs' system, Pop will start to settle on his lineups and rotations...

[EricB]

I would trade this victory to have seen 28 minutes of Ian out there tonight

there won't be another opportunity like this one to evaluate him against legit NBA talent, soon Bonner will return, Blair and McDyess continue to improve in the Spurs' system, Pop will start to settle on his lineups and rotations...


So you'd rather Ian Mahinmi play than win the game.


Sorry, I'm strange in that I want to win games. Weird like that.

[Quiet Strength]

I dont understand why at the end of the 4th blair didn't get any touches... He was having an amazing game and still no touches? It's stupid.

[FkLA]

Pop haters are ridiculous. Leave it to them to still find something to bitch about after a great undermanned win, on the road, against the arguably the hottest team in the NBA over the last month. Go try your hand in coaching Im sure teams are dying to sign you with your clear superior knowledge over Pop.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Voluntarily shortening to an 8-man rotation on a back-to-back is pretty crazy.


And, Parker was obviously exhausted by the half... but hey, in the end, he got a clutch basket at the end of regulation. And the Spurs toughed it out, sucked it up and got the W. So maybe in the long run, a tough, short-manned game like this will help them.

It was great to see them win and will do wonders for everyone's confidence.

That said, you know Pop's stubborness as well as I do. We'll get in a hole against the Lakers and Pop will think he can trot out a front line of Mason, Jefferson, and Blair to get back into the damn game. And we'll lose by 30.

[angelbelow]

I would trade this victory to have seen 28 minutes of Ian out there tonight

there won't be another opportunity like this one to evaluate him against legit NBA talent, soon Bonner will return, Blair and McDyess continue to improve in the Spurs' system, Pop will start to settle on his lineups and rotations...

I would never trade this win. This one was damn valuable. On a B2B against another +.500 team. This win was HUGE.

[ffadicted]

Manu 0-10 from the field, 2 pts on the night. I don't think that's on Pop (Ginobili did everything else but score though).

Yo' broski I was about to yell at you until I saw the words in the bracket, way to give my man some credit. The insane hussle play to lead to the jefferson game winning shot was wiiiild :hat

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop haters are ridiculous. Leave it to them to still find something to bitch about after a great undermanned win, on the road, against the arguably the hottest team in the NBA over the last month. Go try your hand in coaching Im sure teams are dying to sign you with your clear superior knowledge over Pop.

It's not so much about tonight, it's about the bigger picture. You will see that lineup again somewhere when Pop thinks he can be cute, only there will be a coach on the other sideline smart enough to post up whoever Mason or Jefferson are taking turns guarding at PF.

[Shastafarian]

Eh, I'm not sure he could have done anything with Durant. It would have been nice to see.

Not Durant necessarily. There was just no one at the rim to fend off any Thunder players who drove to the basket. Blair did better than expected but even the damned Thunder announcers said repeatedly "they need to attack the rim because the Spurs have no shot blockers". And they did. They got the lead by attacking the rim.

[objective]

Ratliff or Mahinmi could have received the same burn Ratliff did yesterday, about 4 minutes from the end of the first through the beginning of the second.

[timaios]

So you'd rather Ian Mahinmi play than win the game.


Sorry, I'm strange in that I want to win games. Weird like that.

Seriously, they were scoring at will in the paint during the 3rd quarter, why not trying Mahinmi just 2 or 3 min.
I don't know, Pop must really hate him. I don't understand.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Congrats to the team for laying it all out tonight.

Pop deserves six swift kicks to the junk for a shortened bench and no one taller than 'Dice seeing the floor tonight. Larry Brown is the worst thing to ever happen to Pop's coaching decisions.

This has to be one of if not the worst coached game of Pop's career.

I agree, for once.


1) Death
2) Taxes
3) AHF bitching about Pop

He is right tonight. No Mahinmi in a game perfectly suited to him? WTF???

[Crazymaddopeyo]

Hmm I'm going to take the side of the coach that has 4 championships, rather than people who complain after a win online.

[HarlemHeat37]

Complaining about Pop doesn't change the fact that we're happy that we won..I'm very happy, I wrote that in the game thread..it was a great and gutsy W..it doesn't change anything though..

Ian or Ratliff wouldn't have hurt at all, I don't see how they could have..we blew a 19-point lead anyways..I don't see any reason not to have those guys in at some point to give others a rest and to protect the rim..

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Did the Spurs lose?

Pop did his job.

They didn't win because of Pop. Tonight they won despite him.

[pjjrfan]

I don't like the idea of sitting Tim out, but the end result is that the team responded with great effort, everyone made mistakes, but in the end they did tough it out and they got a well deserved win against a team that has owned them for the past 2 seasons. I also liked that the defensive energy came in a back to back after a big win over the Lakers. Manu is something else, that last play I thought he gave the game away then he hustles and helps create the winning shot.

[FkLA]

It's not so much about tonight, it's about the bigger picture. You will see that lineup again somewhere when Pop thinks he can be cute, only there will be a coach on the other sideline smart enough to post up whoever Mason or Jefferson are taking turns guarding at PF.

Because obviously Nenad Kristic was being Wilt-esque and absolutely beasting in the paint tonight right? Or was is it Nick Collison? Jeff Green? Durant? Ibaka?

Come on we saw small ball tonight because the opponents athleticism and style of play demanded it, nothing more. Lets not make a bigger deal out of it than what it was. It was an adjustment similar to Blair only playing 5 minutes last night.

[DJB]

The lineups weren't fine at all..

At one point, there was a lineup consisting of Parker, Hill, Manu, Mason and Blair..Mason was fucking guarding Jeff Green..luckily the Thunder didn't go to him..

Pop played an 8-man rotation, despite playing against an athletic team that always gives us problems and we were on a b2b..he didn't play an interior defender at all this game and the entire team was clearly dead by the 4th..he should have used the young guys and the bench more IMO..

Pop wasn't the main or only problem, but he coached a poor game tonight IMO..


I think Popp has been coaching a lot of poor games over the last year or so... just sayin.

[objective]

Brooks found a way to get Ibaka 7 minutes, and McDyess was getting manhandled trying to defensive rebound. And Ibaka getting 7 didn't cost OKC the game even though he was -4.

I think it's reasonable that Ratliff or Mahinmi could have snagged 5 minutes somewhere in the game. Blair and McDyess were dragging during at points in the game, and others were too.

[sananspursfan21]

it annoys me a little bit more everytime somebody says how stupid popovich is. "didn't play anyone taller than mcdyess" comment holds no weight, dejuan's just undersized and you can't touch his work on the boards tonight

[objective]

double

[Crazymaddopeyo]

Timmy gets tons of rest and we get a W. Sounds like great coaching to me.

[Agloco]

Congrats to the team for laying it all out tonight.

Pop deserves six swift kicks to the junk for a shortened bench and no one taller than 'Dice seeing the floor tonight. Larry Brown is the worst thing to ever happen to Pop's coaching decisions.

This has to be one of if not the worst coached game of Pop's career.

Did anyone notice the line up he had in at the end of regulation?

:wow:wow:wow:wow

[EricB]

BTW, Didn't in that 4th quarter for a good bit Pop go with McDyess and Blair against the big guys down the stretch?


Mahinmi on Durant would've been suicide.

Ditto Blair on em.

[timaios]

Because obviously Nenad Kristic was being Wilt-esque and absolutely beasting in the paint tonight right? Or was is it Nick Collison? Jeff Green? Durant? Ibaka?

Come on we saw small ball tonight because the opponents athleticism and style of play demanded it, nothing more. Lets not make a bigger deal out of it than what it was. It was an adjustment similar to Blair only playing 5 minutes last night.

Hello : help defense on the weak side, shot blockers ! It was disgusting the way the thunder were scoring in the 3rd qtr. :bang

[sananspursfan21]

It's not so much about tonight, it's about the bigger picture. You will see that lineup again somewhere when Pop thinks he can be cute, only there will be a coach on the other sideline smart enough to post up whoever Mason or Jefferson are taking turns guarding at PF.

pretty sure pop is not trying to be cute. i think he just wants a combination of two things. he wants to win another championship working with what he has and he wants to continue to receive a check from the san antonio spurs organization. winning and keeping your job go hand in hand so in a sense he's got one goal in mind.

so no, he's not trying to be cute, you're just on a pop-hating bandwagon that's gonna run off a cliff when the spurs win another championship this year (knock on wood)

[SenorSpur]

Seriously, they were scoring at will in the paint during the 3rd quarter, why not trying Mahinmi just 2 or 3 min.
I don't know, Pop must really hate him. I don't understand.

It's true. The Thunder deliberately (and smartly) started attacking the basket when Blair sat down. Having some semblance of a shotblocker in the game would have closed off the paint and maybe helped to preserve the lead that the boys squandered.

[ChumpDumper]

Hello : help defense on the weak side, shot blockers ! It was disgusting the way the thunder were scoring in the 3rd qtr. :bangSo why didn't they score that way the entire game?

[EricB]

It's true. The Thunder deliberately (and smartly) started attacking the basket when Blair sat down. Having some semblance of a shotblocker in the game would have closed off the paint and maybe helped to preserve the lead that the boys squandered.


How come Durant didn't drive to the hole everytime?

Wasn't alot of his shots in the OT and 4th outside shots?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

There are two sides to this debate and they are very simple:
1. Pop is God and shall never be questioned, or,
2. There's a young guy over there who is quick, mobile, 7ft tall, loves to run the floor and block shots, had 15/9 the other night... he really should have gotten some run tonight. WTF, Pop???

I am in the 2 camp.

[200 miles]

Paging Dr. Carlesimo.....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

So why didn't they score that way the entire game?

Both because Blair was menacing them, and they were taking a lot of jumpers. Mahinmi should've been in for Blair, and if he was clearly outclassed you try something else, but the way he handled himself the other night against Lopez, he's ready to play some spot minutes.

[EricB]

There are two sides to this debate and they are very simple:
1. Pop is God and shall never be questioned, or,
2. There's a young guy over there who is quick, mobile, 7ft tall, loves to run the floor and block shots, had 15/9 the other night... he really should have gotten some run tonight. WTF, Pop???

I am in the 2 camp.


Or theres, Was mahinmi gonna guard Durant or Jeff Green so what sense would that make?


Seriously..... Why start shit.

[EricB]

Both because Blair was menacing them, and they were taking a lot of jumpers. Mahinmi should've been in for Blair, and if he was clearly outclassed you try something else, but the way he handled himself the other night against Lopez, he's ready to play some spot minutes.


Take Blair out?

McDyess had 13 and 9

Was that horrible!?

[EricB]

Paging Dr. Carlesimo.....


Carlesimo didn't do shit when he was in SA the first time and he wouldn't do shit today,

Please save the weak PJ stuff for somewhere else.

[Budkin]

Pop haters are ridiculous. Leave it to them to still find something to bitch about after a great undermanned win, on the road, against the arguably the hottest team in the NBA over the last month. Go try your hand in coaching Im sure teams are dying to sign you with your clear superior knowledge over Pop.

Your sig is one of the the most disturbing things I've seen in quite a while... yikes.

[ChumpDumper]

because Blair was menacing themAfter he fouled out?

He's not that scary.

Would have been nice to see Ian after the score was initially run up, but I have trouble getting angry about a win.

[FkLA]

Hello : help defense on the weak side, shot blockers ! It was disgusting the way the thunder were scoring in the 3rd qtr. :bang

Which can be said for just about every game the Spurs have played this year, losing leads and having teams score on us at will during stretches has been a regular occurence. But yeah lets make a bigger deal out of it tonight and find something to bitch about after a great win.


Your sig is one of the the most disturbing things I've seen in quite a while... yikes.

Dont make sig bets with Mavs fans, specifically Findog :(

[Sean Cagney]

1) Death
2) Taxes
3) AHF bitching about Pop

4) Ducks sticking up for Parker and dissing Manu.

[Shastafarian]

Take Blair out?

McDyess had 13 and 9

Was that horrible!?

His defense was horrible yes.

[200 miles]

Sorry Eric, I was only being facetious. Please dont start shit up here.

[EricB]

His defense was horrible yes.


So whos mahinmi shutting down on the perimiter, Green? Durant? Harden?

[J_Paco]

Look, we're all happy the team won. But, that had to be the worst coached game by Pop in a while. Pop's guys are coming off a tough game last night, without Timmy the next night and he decides to start and play a small-unit throughout the game???? You're telling me he couldn't find 10-15 minutes for both Theo and Ian?? I'm surprised people aren't angry that he'll burn a couple of these guys out by making them play out of position (i.e. Manu and Richard) constantly. :ihit:ihit

[ChumpDumper]

Look, we're all happy the team won.I don't think you are.

[200 miles]

look, we're all happy the team won. But, that had to be the worst coached game by pop in a while. Pop's guys are coming off a tough game last night, without timmy the next night and he decides to start and play a small-unit throughout the game???? You're telling me he couldn't find 10-15 minutes for both theo and ian?? I'm surprised people aren't angry that he'll burn a couple of these guys out by making them play out of position (i.e. Manu and richard) constantly. :ihit:ihit

+1

[timaios]

So whos mahinmi shutting down on the perimiter, Green? Durant? Harden?

We can't know, he played 0 min !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on a b2b without Duncan !

Try him just 2 min.......... 2 fucking minutes !!!! And see what happens.

[TJastal]

I agree w/ the OP, this would have been a good game to unleash Ian to help out in the shotblocking dept. I would have liked to seen a stretch of Haislip as well to see if he could bother Durant, who was making it look effortless out there.

And if your not going to try those guys against probably the one team in the league that their skills match up with, then give Duncan 20 minutes so the spurs can coast to an easy victory tonight and everybody gets rest on a B2B, not just him.

Like I said in the game thread, these types of games willl kill either Parker or Manu (or both) by the end of the year, esp w/ Parker's planar fascitis now an ongoing issue.

What good will it do to have Duncan all rested up then? Without TP and Manu playing at a high level (or at all) having Duncan 100% is going to make no difference.

[Shastafarian]

So whos mahinmi shutting down on the perimiter, Green? Durant? Harden?

No one. Which is why I said I would've liked to see a shot blocker at the rim. I guess you think Collison and Ibaka would be too quick and athletic for Mahinmi to guard them. I would've also settled for Ratliff.

[EricB]

We can't know, he played 0 min !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on a b2b without Duncan !

Try him just 2 min.......... 2 fucking minutes !!!! And see what happens.


You didn't answer the question.

[Shastafarian]

Krstic - 9 minutes
Ibaka - 7 minutes
Collison - 23 minutes

[EricB]

No one. Which is why I said I would've liked to see a shot blocker at the rim. I guess you think Collison and Ibaka would be too quick and athletic for Mahinmi to guard them. I would've also settled for Ratliff.

Collison and Ibaka did jack shit.

Please.

[Shastafarian]

Collison and Ibaka did jack shit.

Please.

Let's see how long it takes TPark to realize he just made my point for me...

[EricB]

Krstic - 9 minutes
Ibaka - 7 minutes
Collison - 23 minutes


dog shit
crap
less than dog shit

Damn, had they just played Ian Mensah Bonsu all would've been well.

[Shastafarian]

dog shit
crap
less than dog shit

Damn, had they just played Ian Mensah Bonsu all would've been well.

Two in a row. Look I know I'm not the best debater but you don't have to make my point for me over and over again.

[BOHOLANO#21]

We can't know, he played 0 min !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on a b2b without Duncan !

Try him just 2 min.......... 2 fucking minutes !!!! And see what happens.
+1. i was pissed watching in the third quarter when the thunder rallied by attacking the rim. mahinmi's length would have been huge...:bang

[EricB]

Let's see how long it takes TPark to realize he just made my point for me...


So whats the great need for the shotblocker if their bigs aren't doing anything and their guards were the one making JUMP SHOTS.


Answer the question.

whos Mahinmi gonna guard?

Durant? Green? Harden?

[EricB]

Two in a row. Look I know I'm not the best debater but you don't have to make my point for me over and over again.


You've yet to answer the fucking question too.

[sabar]

Pretty obvious Ian is trade bait and not being played so his stock remains high after that one game.

Guessing the Spurs are going to try to shed some salary pretty soon.

[Shastafarian]

So whats the great need for the shotblocker if their bigs aren't doing anything and their guards were the one making JUMP SHOTS.
Oh I see now. You didn't watch the game. Now I get it. Here's an interesting experiment. Find footage of the game and watch the 3rd quarter again and see how many jump shots are made. Then watch carefully, and I mean carefully, and see how many wide open jumps are made because the defender is playing off the ball. If you can tell me what all this means you get a cookie.


Answer the question.

whos Mahinmi gonna guard?Collison


Durant? Green? Harden?
No, no, and no.

[Shastafarian]

You've yet to answer the fucking question too.

Why do I need to answer when you keep making my points look stronger?

[timaios]

So whats the great need for the shotblocker if their bigs aren't doing anything and their guards were the one making JUMP SHOTS.


Answer the question.

whos Mahinmi gonna guard?

Durant? Green? Harden?

:lol So if i follow your thought, Duncan would have been useless in that game.
Yeah right !

[J_Paco]

I don't think you are.

I'm happy, but dumbfounded that Pop plays a shortened rotation with mostly perimeter players on the second night of a back-to-back situation. The team was completely lucky to escape OKC with a win.

And, people seem to forget that the team could've gone to a zone with Ian or Ratliff out there. Nobody would've expected them to guard Durant, but the could helped defending the heavy amount of interior scoring for the Thunder in the second half.

[Shastafarian]

:lol So if i follow your thought, Duncan would have been useless in that game.
Yeah right !

I'll pre-empt TPark's goalpost moving on this one. "You're comparing Tim Duncan to Ian Pops Mensah Scola Schnitzius? rofl"

Maybe it's a strawman? I always mix those up.

[HarlemHeat37]

OKC had 54 points in the paint..

It's not about shutting down the opposing big men, it's about stopping the penetration in the paint..so comparing the numbers of the Thunder's frontcourt is pretty irrelevant in this argument..

[Shastafarian]

OKC had 54 points in the paint..

It's not about shutting down the opposing big men, it's about stopping the penetration in the paint..so comparing the numbers of the Thunder's frontcourt is pretty irrelevant in this argument..

I think he left cuz he realized he owned himself. :lol

[blkroadrunners]

It's funny. Since Pop decided to sit Tim tonight against really good OKC team who have had our number since Durant was drafted after playing 40 minutes yesterday, a lot of Spurs fans (including myself) had the assumption that Pop would play Mahinmi.

The way the Spurs started out though, they obviously were going for the win since they jumped on a 20 point lead, and 12 point lead at half. The Thunder came back (like they have usually done in the past games against the Spurs), and all of a sudden it was a close game, neck to neck. After playing 8 players tonight, the Spurs were able to come w/ the win.

My point is, in Pop's defense, why would you play Ian if the game is tight and on the line?? Ian really has no NBA court experience, especially in the clutch, so obviously w/ the lineup, you're only as strong as your weakest link. The Spurs could have played him in the 1st half, but they already built a sizeable lead w/o him, in which that lead was necessary especially for the 2nd half. Pop could have play Ratliff some, but his offense is very raw, so it's somewhat understandable.

[Bruno]

Spurs have given up on Mahinmi 3 months ago. The game against Nets was just a successful showcase.

What is more telling is that both Haislip and Hairston haven't played. Hairston could have bring some energy and Haislip was signed to play against mobile PF like Green. If it was needed, this game also shows that Pop has also quite given up on them (at least for this year).

Should have Pop gave some minutes to Haislip or Hairston? Maybe. It would have helped energy-wise but it was risky because they could have screwed it up.

[timaios]

It's funny. Since Pop decided to sit Tim tonight against really good OKC team who have had our number since Durant was drafted after playing 40 minutes yesterday, a lot of Spurs fans (including myself) had the assumption that Pop would play Mahinmi.

The way the Spurs started out though, they obviously were going for the win since they jumped on a 20 point lead, and 12 point lead at half. The Thunder came back (like they have usually done in the past games against the Spurs), and all of a sudden it was a close game, neck to neck. After playing 8 players tonight, the Spurs were able to come w/ the win.

My point is, in Pop's defense, why would you play Ian if the game is tight and on the line?? Ian really has no NBA court experience, especially in the clutch, so obviously w/ the lineup, you're only as strong as your weakest link. The Spurs could have played him in the 1st half, but they already built a sizeable lead w/o him, in which that lead was necessary especially for the 2nd half. Pop could have play Ratliff some, but his offense is very raw, so it's somewhat understandable.

What are you talking about ? You try Ian or even Theo in the 3rd qtr when the thunder were scoring at will in the paint.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Just a weak, weak comeback thread by AHF.


I would have liked to see some Ian Mahinmi tonight, but fact is the Thunder are a perimeter team. And they hardly played Collison (who is not really a post threat anyways........)

The Thunder are an incredibly athletic, fast, perimeter oriented team. And for those who have not paid attention the past two seasons, they matchups VERY well with this Spurs team. They have the horses to play excellent perimeter defense on us, and make us struggle to get things done the way we like to do it.

That's what made this game so fun to watch. We have no Duncan, and we play Spurs basketball against this tough matchup.....look what happens...our freakin inside Rookie goes for a beast game against them.

I thought Pop called a fair game.

[jcrod]

Spurs have given up on Mahinmi 3 months ago. The game against Nets was just a successful showcase.

What is more telling is that both Haislip and Hairston haven't played. Hairston could have bring some energy and Haislip was signed to play against mobile PF like Green. If it was needed, this game also shows that Pop has also quite given up on them (at least for this year).

Should have Pop gave some minutes to Haislip or Hairston? Maybe. It would have helped energy-wise but it was risky because they could have screwed it up.


That's the point he had other options and he didn't use one, not one. I''m glad they won, but him constantly going small ball and even smaller ball tonight is freaking fustrating.

[Old School 44]

I hope I am wrong, but Mahinmi not playing in either game, particularly against OKC, further supports the "showcase" game theory against the NJ. The front office is probably thinking, "He had 15/9, no reason to take a chance and mess up his last impression".

[J_Paco]

Spurs have given up on Mahinmi 3 months ago. The game against Nets was just a successful showcase.

What is more telling is that both Haislip and Hairston haven't played. Hairston could have bring some energy and Haislip was signed to play against mobile PF like Green. If it was needed, this game also shows that Pop has also quite given up on them (at least for this year).

Should have Pop gave some minutes to Haislip or Hairston? Maybe. It would have helped energy-wise but it was risky because they could have screwed it up.

You have a point, Bruno. But, after seeing what Mahinmi could bring to this team in the present, and future, plus the fact that they used a 1st round pick on him, wouldn't it be smart to play him more to re-asses him as a player. I just feel like the team should give him some actual court-time, unless they feel like he's another Jackie Butler, and Ian will be out of the league shortly.

[ChumpDumper]

We're talking about New Jersey, man....

[blkroadrunners]

What are you talking about ? You try Ian or even Theo in the 3rd qtr when the thunder were scoring at will in the paint.

All I'm saying is why throw Ian right in the fire in the most critical part of the game when he hasn't play any really NBA games outside the game against the Nets?

Plus, I already stated they could have played Theo some.

[J_Paco]

We're talking about New Jersey, man....

We're talking about Brook Lopez, a top 10 center, man...............

Look Ian isn't the next Robinson or Mourning. Yet, he could bring the skills of a Chris Andersen or Samuel Dalembert to a team that desperately needs size and athleticism in the front-court. I just think the organization has invested too much time on Ian to give up on him so quickly. Especially, if Splitter would decide not to join the team this summer.

One thing that puzzles me is where does Parker stand in all of this??? Is Tony secretly lobbying for playing time for Ian, or has he remained quiet while the organization has his countrymen by the balls?

[GSH]

Manu 0-10 from the field, 2 pts on the night. I don't think that's on Pop (Ginobili did everything else but score though).

No... but how about calling a play for Hill down the stretch? With about a minute and a half left, and OKC up by two, we've got Manu tossing up a 3-point attempt. Manu was 0-9, and Hill was 7-9. Plus, Hill had fresh legs.

I guess that's why I'm not coaching the team. I would have tried to get the ball to the guy who had actually put the ball in the hole during this game.

[HarlemHeat37]

If you guys don't think Ian should have played, then why didn't Ratliff play?..

It's also strange that they just guaranteed Hairston's contract and he wasn't even dressed tonight..he could have helped when Manu picked up his 3rd foul and Bogans was just subbed off..Bogans had to come back in, and it clearly had a toll by the 4th..I understand if he's scared that Haislip has never done anything, but Hairston gave us good NBA minutes last year and he very good in preseason..the fact that they kept him on and guaranteed his contract clearly means they like his game..

[ChumpDumper]

We're talking about Brook Lopez, a top 10 center, man...............Yes, and he performed well above his averages that night.


Look Ian isn't the next Robinson or Mourning. Yet, he could bring the skills of a Chris Andersen or Samuel Dalembert to a team that desperately needs size and athleticism in the front-court. I just think the organization has invest too much time on Ian to give up on him so quickly. Especially, if Splitter would decide not to join the team this summer.Speaking as someone who has probably watched him play more than anyone on this board, that ship seems to have sailed.

[narmerguy]

I think pop coached stupid today, plane and simple. I seriously don't think he knows how to handle this kind of talent on the team. He's using all the pieces differently.

[J_Paco]

Yes, and he performed well above his averages that night.

Speaking as someone who has probably watched him play more than anyone on this board, that ship seems to have sailed.

Okay, but what if the worst-case scenario happens and we end up with no re-signed Manu and Splitter still in Europe?? What is their back-up plan (you obviously don't know)?? I just think their being too damn short-sighted with a young guy that has some pro ability.

Damn, if only the kid hadn't been injured last season. We'd probably have a much better evaluation of the kid. :depressed

[ChumpDumper]

Okay, but what if the worst-case scenario happens and we end up with no re-signed Manu and Splitter still in Europe?? What is their back-up plan (you obviously don't know)??Neither do you. I stopped worrying awhile back. I feel much better.


I just think their being too damn short-sighted with a young guy that has pro ability.I believe at this point, declineing the option could have just been a money decision.


Damn, if only the kid hadn't been injured last season. We'd probably have much better evaluation of the kid. :depressedYes, but I would have played Ratliff first.

[Taking it to the Hole]

Last time I checked the score, the Spurs won the game. Am I mistaken, I could have sworn they won??? :bang

[ChumpDumper]

Last time I checked the score, the Spurs won the game. Am I mistaken, I could have sworn they won??? :bangThey did win.

You should be happy.

But actually not.

[J_Paco]

Yes, but I would have played Ratliff first.

Nah, I mean when all we had to depend was old Kurt Thomas, a green Bonner and Oberto with a weak heart. Shit, he probably would've been starting by the playoffs beside Tim unless he totally flamed out.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, I mean when all we had to depend was old Kurt Thomas, a green Bonner and Oberto with a weak heart. Shit, he probably would've been starting by the playoffs beside Tim unless he totally flamed out.Well, sure -- but what ifs get boring after awhile.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Collison and Ibaka did jack shit.

Please.

So Ian would have had a low bar to match statistically in your eyes, and heaven forbid he might have blocked or altered some shots like he did the other night when he got some run.

Fuck man, you would kiss Pop's ass even if he were tea bagging your mom.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So whats the great need for the shotblocker if their bigs aren't doing anything and their guards were the one making JUMP SHOTS.


Answer the question.

whos Mahinmi gonna guard?

Durant? Green? Harden?


54 points in the paint, dipshit.

[raspsa]

Pop may be getting very close to settling on his rotations that he thinks he can count on for the remainder of the season. Playing time is precious and he'll allocate it to those players he thinks can help win this year.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Spurs have given up on Mahinmi 3 months ago. The game against Nets was just a successful showcase.

What is more telling is that both Haislip and Hairston haven't played. Hairston could have bring some energy and Haislip was signed to play against mobile PF like Green. If it was needed, this game also shows that Pop has also quite given up on them (at least for this year).

Should have Pop gave some minutes to Haislip or Hairston? Maybe. It would have helped energy-wise but it was risky because they could have screwed it up.

How much more could they have screwed things up when we were getting clocked in the third quarter?

But therein lies the rub. No new players get run in our system unless there's no one at their position to play or they're getting 14 million a year, or they're over 30 years of age.

Pop talked all summer about getting younger, then our young bigs ride the pine while Tim sits and 'Dice is getting run by OKC, Manu has no legs, and Jefferson is playing like Air Gay.

I started this thread mainly focused on Ian's DNP (assuming they are going to keep the guy around) and Theo being MIA, but people have brought good points since about guys like Haislip and Hairston as well.

We all know Hairston can play some ball if given the chance, and Haislip... well you're already sitting TD, your PG has plantar fasciatis and you're running his ass into the ground, Manu has no legs but you run him 35 minutes, come on...

if you're going to coach the game drunk, at least stagger down to the end of the bench and see what you got there.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop may be getting very close to settling on his rotations that he thinks he can count on for the remainder of the season. Playing time is precious and he'll allocate it to those players he thinks can help win this year.

Fuck that. If he continues to run guys like Parker and Manu into the ground (and even to a lesser extend 'Dice and Jefferson), they're all going to be dead at the end of the season and get rolled in round one of the playoffs.

This shit is just Larry Brown syndrome with a different geezer of a coach.

[ChumpDumper]

Manu played how many minutes tonight?

[TJastal]

"if you're going to coach the game drunk, at least stagger down to the end of the bench and see what you got there."

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Hmm I'm going to take the side of the coach that has 4 championships, rather than the players who won them despite him.

[jag]

How much more could they have screwed things up when we were getting clocked in the third quarter?

But therein lies the rub. No new players get run in our system unless there's no one at their position to play or they're getting 14 million a year, or they're over 30 years of age.

Pop talked all summer about getting younger, then our young bigs ride the pine while Tim sits and 'Dice is getting run by OKC, Manu has no legs, and Jefferson is playing like Air Gay.

I started this thread mainly focused on Ian's DNP (assuming they are going to keep the guy around) and Theo being MIA, but people have brought good points since about guys like Haislip and Hairston as well.


Blair is starting right now, and Hill just logged 40 min. You're using excuses that were made for last year.

I would have loved to see Ian out there...it's been nice to watch a guy like him develop and then actually contribute, but this isn't the time to start experimenting. With Duncan out, the Spurs really needed this win. There's a reason a hobbled Tony Parker was out there for 40 min.

[EricB]

So Ian would have had a low bar to match statistically in your eyes, and heaven forbid he might have blocked or altered some shots like he did the other night when he got some run.

Fuck man, you would kiss Pop's ass even if he were tea bagging your mom.


IMO they were doing a good job turning the Thunder into a jump shooting team and he wanted to keep the wing players out there and keep it up.

Just IMO.

Sorry you feel differently.

[Obstructed_View]

Blair is starting right now, and Hill just logged 40 min. You're using excuses that were made for last year.

I would have loved to see Ian out there...it's been nice to watch a guy like him develop and then actually contribute, but this isn't the time to start experimenting. With Duncan out, the Spurs really needed this win. There's a reason a hobbled Tony Parker was out there for 40 min.

Then Duncan needs to be starting. But if you're going to be resting him, giving major minutes to a seven footer with athletic ability that just put up a good game is a complete no-brainer when compared with shortening the bejeezus out of your rotation on the second night of a back to back.

[EricB]

Then Duncan needs to be starting. But if you're going to be resting him, giving major minutes to a seven footer with athletic ability that just put up a good game is a complete no-brainer when compared with shortening the bejeezus out of your rotation on the second night of a back to back.


I think honestly were just plane splitting hairs here.

McDyess played a good game, Blair was obviously fantastic, and again IMO the wings were doing a good job of forcing jumpers. The Thunder's rotation was pretty short and they stayed with small ball literally from the start.

Would I have played Mahinmi? Possibly in the second quarter when McDyess was struggling, but those minutes he played may have contributed to his fantastic play in the 4th and OT.

His jumpers in that 4th really helped them stave off the Thunder.

Do the minutes he played in the second help get Dice in the game enough to enable that? I don't know.

[jag]

Then Duncan needs to be starting. But if you're going to be resting him, giving major minutes to a seven footer with athletic ability that just put up a good game is a complete no-brainer when compared with shortening the bejeezus out of your rotation on the second night of a back to back.

Duncan needs the rest. Pop already said they plan on sitting Tim more on the second half of B2Bs. They're hoping to have him somewhat fresh in for the playoffs...you already know this. Just because Duncan is out doesn't mean you throw caution to the wind and start putting out all-rookie lineups. The fact that he played Parker so many minutes shows how much he wanted to win this game. This wasn't the Nets.

No one is saying that this 8-man rotation(when Duncan sits) is set in stone, and there's obviously no way to predict Pop's future lineups...but again, i don't think it would be too wise to start experimenting against quality teams like the Thunder.

[EricB]

The guy that should have definately played IMO and was a PRIME PRIME time for him to play was Haislip.

It would've been nice to see how he would've done on a DUrant or Green and see if his shot would've helped or see what he had.

Thats the biggest travesty and fopah of this damn game IMO.

[jag]

I don't think Haislip has showed enough competence on the defensive end to actually log minutes against quality perimeter players. I really don't feel like he grasps the Spurs system.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The guy that should have definately played IMO and was a PRIME PRIME time for him to play was Haislip.

It would've been nice to see how he would've done on a DUrant or Green and see if his shot would've helped or see what he had.

Thats the biggest travesty and fopah of this damn game IMO.

his the longest 3 we have atm, but pop doesnt give him the opportunity to play regular minutes to see where his at....scrub minutes or anything less then what blair is gettin just doesnt translate what he can show us......

[EricB]

his the longest 3 we have atm, but pop doesnt give him the opportunity to play regular minutes to see where his at....scrub minutes or anything less then what blair is gettin just doesnt translate what he can show us......


Yeah I agree.

He's shown ENOUGH in garbage time to earn some kind of minutes in back to back games.

But, nothing I can do about so Ill just stick to wringing the couch pillow.

[TD 21]

This small ball obsession is eventually going to catch up to this team. I just hope it doesn't cost them their season in the process, but at some point they need a team to absolutely destroy them when they go to small to teach Pop a lesson, because apparently he doesn't get it. Unfortunately, the more they get away with it, the more he'll continue to go to it.

Why did the front office focus so heavily on the front line to the point where they have seven bigs (but only two points) if Pop has no interest in playing more than four of them ever and often times only one at a time?

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan needs the rest.
No, he really doesn't. Parker needs the rest. Manu probably doesn't need the wear and tear of having to fight that hard in order to win. I'm sure Jefferson didn't like having to play 40 minutes on the second night of a back to back. Not sure anybody liked having to go to overtime because the 8 man rotation clearly ran out of gas.


Pop already said they plan on sitting Tim more on the second half of B2Bs.
Yeah, too bad that most of us assumed that when he said they "plan" on it that actually meant that they had a "plan". This is only fractionally better than the "plan" to have Duncan sit out the first quarter and then have to fight back from a double digit deficit.


They're hoping to have him somewhat fresh in for the playoffs...you already know this.
Duncan was the only Spur who looked ready for the playoffs last year....you already know this.


Just because Duncan is out doesn't mean you throw caution to the wind and start putting out all-rookie lineups.
No, apparently it's far more sensible to shorten your rotation to just the players that played the night before and rely on your only rookie to have a career night in points and rebounds in order to squeak by in overtime.


The fact that he played Parker so many minutes shows how much he wanted to win this game. This wasn't the Nets.
Yes, I'm sure everyone in the Spurs organization is thinking about what a master stroke it was to play Parker heavy minutes on the second night of a B2B on a bad foot. Makes a whole lot more sense than to play healthy young guys who are well rested, one or two of whom have shown some ability to contribute.


No one is saying that this 8-man rotation(when Duncan sits) is set in stone, and there's obviously no way to predict Pop's future lineups...
Nobody has has a clue about Pop's current lineups. Should be fairly clear by now that there's not really any rhyme or reason to them.


but again, i don't think it would be too wise to start experimenting against quality teams like the Thunder.

It looks like the only back to back games they have against losing teams are in March, against Memphis on the 13th and the Nets on the 29th. Are we waiting until then to "experiment"? Not really that much rest to give Timmy, if that's the case.

[Obstructed_View]

The guy that should have definately played IMO and was a PRIME PRIME time for him to play was Haislip.

It would've been nice to see how he would've done on a DUrant or Green and see if his shot would've helped or see what he had.

Thats the biggest travesty and fopah of this damn game IMO.

:bang

[EricB]

This small ball obsession is eventually going to catch up to this team. I just hope it doesn't cost them their season in the process, but at some point they need a team to absolutely destroy them when they go to small to teach Pop a lesson, because apparently he doesn't get it. Unfortunately, the more they get away with it, the more he'll continue to go to it.

Why did the front office focus so heavily on the front line to the point where they have seven bigs (but only two points) if Pop has no interest in playing more than four of them ever and often times only one at a time?


Well he's only gonna go small against teams that their main focus is small.

Really tonight playing mahinmi against a Durant or Green is suicide.

Pop will go big, in fact I think he PREFERS to go big and he's proven it.

Lately though alot of the teams they've played the need to go small has been there.

The Dallas game over highlighted it IMO due to just the foul trouble Dice and Blair got into.

IMO Duncan and Ratliff could've played but Ratliff played bad as well in his time in the game.


The problem was the offense in that game went to crap Jefferson was guarding Dirk well in that third, and the other bigs outside of Tim were crap at that point.


I think people are overreacting a tad bit.

[EricB]

:bang


What now....




Do you love to argue or what?

[Obstructed_View]

What now....




Do you love to argue or what?

I gave up arguing with you years ago. Anyone who says "Pop will go big, in fact I think he PREFERS to go big and he's proven it." is far too ignorant to waste time on.

[vander]

So you'd rather Ian Mahinmi play than win the game.


Sorry, I'm strange in that I want to win games. Weird like that.

if we were in any danger of missing the playoffs by this one game, Duncan would have played. and also we might have still won w/Mahinmi

[EricB]

I gave up arguing with you years ago. Anyone who says "Pop will go big, in fact I think he PREFERS to go big and he's proven it." is far too ignorant to waste time on.


Sorry you feel that way.

Sorry your so grumpy on top of that.

[EricB]

if we were in any danger of missing the playoffs by this one game, Duncan would have played. and also we might have still won w/Mahinmi


Well of course he would have. That still doesn't address why you'd want to lose a game just to see someone play.

[EricB]

I gave up arguing with you years ago. Anyone who says "Pop will go big, in fact I think he PREFERS to go big and he's proven it." is far too ignorant to waste time on.


What I meant by that, is when he has good bigs, good long tall guys like in 05 or 07, he will stay big.


If you disagree with that, thats your right and I respect it.

[TD 21]

I used to think that (that Pop prefers to go big), but I'm not so sure anymore. Last year, while I didn't like it, I understood. The team needed more scoring on the floor and more than anything they were undermanned and lacking depth at the power positions. This season (while most would agree they could use another starting big 6'10'' or bigger), that's not the case. They have depth, they have talent; Pop's just not using it.

[Obstructed_View]

What I meant by that, is when he has good bigs, good long tall guys like in 05 or 07, he will stay big.


If you disagree with that, thats your right and I respect it.

Last thing I'm going to say to you, basically to prove why I don't bother with your idiocy: The "good bigs" in 2005 are the same ones he benched in 2006 after they helped the Spurs set a team record for wins. The starting center in '07 is not long or tall.

You can't disagree with that, you have a right to make stupid basketball points but I don't have to respect you for it.

[EricB]

I used to think that (that Pop prefers to go big), but I'm not so sure anymore. Last year, while I didn't like it, I understood. The team needed more scoring on the floor and more than anything they were undermanned and lacking depth at the power positions. This season (while most would agree they could use another starting big 6'10'' or bigger), that's not the case. They have depth, they have talent; Pop's just not using it.


I think the trap you and others are falling into, sans tonight's game but others, where do these minutes go?

I mean these minutes are takin quite a bit and Bonner is on the injured list as is Finley.

I mean who's minutes suffer?

Ratliff gives you shot blocking and thats it. He's not a great rebounder and his offense is atrocious.

Mahinmi? I'll give you guys that he should get more run but when?

Again tongiht did you want him guarding Kevin Durant out there?

It comes down to matchups and I know some say matching up with the other team is stupid you should dictate the matchups, sometimes thats true sometimes you can't do it.

Again, I think theres a huge overreaction to the small ball thing over the past few days.

[EricB]

Last thing I'm going to say to you, basically to prove why I don't bother with your idiocy: The "good bigs" in 2005 are the same ones he benched in 2006 after they helped the Spurs set a team record for wins. The starting center in '07 is not long or tall.

You can't disagree with that, you have a right to make stupid basketball points but I don't have to respect you for it.


I would counter with in 06 the bigs didn't play as well as they did in 05.

Should Horry have played more? yes, 100% agree with that.

Small ball didn't lose the series however and I will respectfully disagree with you on that.

the starting center in 07 was 6'10 and while not long he was tall. Elson backed him up whos 6'11 and long and Horry would come in as well.

So again, I would say that when his bigs are reliable and playing well he goes with them.

06 was the only year I would say he DIDNT and it was just in the second round against dallas.

Sorry you have such a bad attitude about it.

Hope you can come around :) :toast

[Obstructed_View]

I would counter with in 06 the bigs didn't play as well as they did in 05.

Should Horry have played more? yes, 100% agree with that.

Small ball didn't lose the series however and I will respectfully disagree with you on that.

the starting center in 07 was 6'10 and while not long he was tall. Elson backed him up whos 6'11 and long and Horry would come in as well.

So again, I would say that when his bigs are reliable and playing well he goes with them.

06 was the only year I would say he DIDNT and it was just in the second round against dallas.

Sorry you have such a bad attitude about it.

Hope you can come around :) :toast

Wow, where's the failboat picture when I need it most? I remember the days when I would attempt to dissect all that stupidity in an attempt to remove it.

[EricB]

Wow, where's the failboat picture when I need it most? I remember the days when I would attempt to dissect all that stupidity in an attempt to remove it.


Sorry you feel the need to insult me.

Again, hope you feel differently in the near future :)

[vander]

Well of course he would have. That still doesn't address why you'd want to lose a game just to see someone play.

long term personnel strategy

[EricB]

long term personnel strategy


Doesn't losing a game on purpose hurt longterm strategy though?


Again, I don't see who in the playoffs he takes minutes from.

if Blair Duncan and McDyess and Bonner are all playing well, how does he step in front of em?

[benefactor]

Wow, where's the failboat picture when I need it most? I remember the days when I would attempt to dissect all that stupidity in an attempt to remove it.
http://maq.dk/failtrain.gif

[Obstructed_View]

Sorry you feel the need to insult me.

Again, hope you feel differently in the near future :)

Not without a major head injury, sorry.

[Capt Bringdown]

I would never trade this win. This one was damn valuable. On a B2B against another +.500 team. This win was HUGE.

Yet if the Spurs lost, there would have been a chorus of excuses, namely "it's only January." But of course when it's a win, an early January game is "HUGE," LOL.

Bottom line, the Spurs did not get any better by shortening the roster tonight, this will not pay any dividends down the road. We aren't winning a championship with a shortened small ball lineup.

We need to work our bench bigs into the roster. The Pop apologists always insist that Pop doesn't give a damn about regular season games, these early games are about developing the team. No evidence of that tonight. If Pop's going to get all freaky and rest Duncan, he should have given Ian and Ratliff some burn. We're going to need them down the road.

I agree, if Pop doesn't trust 'em, there needs to be trades.

[jag]

No, he really doesn't. Parker needs the rest. Manu probably doesn't need the wear and tear of having to fight that hard in order to win. I'm sure Jefferson didn't like having to play 40 minutes on the second night of a back to back. Not sure anybody liked having to go to overtime because the 8 man rotation clearly ran out of gas.

Tony Parker is 27. Comparing the wear and tear on Tim to that of Tony isn't even logical. Manu played his standard 30 mpg. And who gives a shit what Jefferson or anyone "likes"?



Yeah, too bad that most of us assumed that when he said they "plan" on it that actually meant that they had a "plan". This is only fractionally better than the "plan" to have Duncan sit out the first quarter and then have to fight back from a double digit deficit.

Duncan needs the rest...i'm not even sure what to take from this. I can only assume you're a little emotional after not seeing Mahinmi play.


Duncan was the only Spur who looked ready for the playoffs last year....you already know this.

Duncan and the rest of the Spurs only played 5 games.



No, apparently it's far more sensible to shorten your rotation to just the players that played the night before and rely on your only rookie to have a career night in points and rebounds in order to squeak by in overtime.

Blair goes off, so it's Pop's fault for "relying" on him? A role guy goes off and wins the game and you blame the coach for not having a better game plan. ok



Yes, I'm sure everyone in the Spurs organization is thinking about what a master stroke it was to play Parker heavy minutes on the second night of a B2B on a bad foot. Makes a whole lot more sense than to play healthy young guys who are well rested, one or two of whom have shown some ability to contribute.

It was a master stroke to win the game without their MVP against a solid team that usually beats the Spurs at full strength.



Nobody has has a clue about Pop's current lineups. Should be fairly clear by now that there's not really any rhyme or reason to them.

I don't understand it either, but that doesn't mean i'm going to assume the coaching staff are covering their eyes and throwing darts at a roster.



It looks like the only back to back games they have against losing teams are in March, against Memphis on the 13th and the Nets on the 29th. Are we waiting until then to "experiment"? Not really that much rest to give Timmy, if that's the case.

I fail to see how experimenting is more important than winning games. You're going through the schedule trying to find games that could lead to Mahinmi, Hairston or Haislip logging minutes. I want to see these guys play too, but you're being ridiculous.

[mystargtr34]

http://maq.dk/failtrain.gif

Lmao

[Obstructed_View]

Doesn't losing a game on purpose hurt longterm strategy though?

Did you ask this question 11 days ago?

[TD 21]

It depends on the opposition, but Blair, generally speaking, can play more than his average. Ratliff, wouldn't this have been a perfect time to get him regular game action? When Bonner's back, when does Ratliff get it? My guess is he doesn't and if he doesn't, can he really be expected to step in in a possible series against the Lakers and not look rusty? I know he generally hasn't when called upon, but coming in in a blowout against the Kings is a lot different than being asked to guard Bynum or Gasol in the playoffs. Outside of that, Mahinmi (preferably) or Haislip, would it have killed the Spurs to play one of these two against weaker competition? All these early home games, spaced out as well, even if these guys played sub-par in limited minutes, at least Duncan would have had more help up front and really, would the team have lost any of those games because one of these guys set foot on the court?

That's all the Spurs need from Ratliff, is to protect the rim. Rim protection and length are the biggest weaknesses on the team.

Mahinmi was an ideal match-up against Ibaka. Had the Spurs shown a proclivity to play big early, Brooks likely stays with his normal big man rotation of Green-Krstic-Collison-Ibaka. Mahinmi could have played against any of them save for Green.

What does this indicate we'll see in the playoffs? You think all of a sudden we're going to see strictly traditional lineups? Pop's preference with this group, for whatever reason, appears to be playing small. Even against the Lakers (granted, Gasol was out), he gave Ratliff the hook awfully quick, despite him and the team playing well in his limited run.

[EricB]

Not without a major head injury, sorry.


Shame, your a good poster and seem like good people.

Sorry again you feel that way.

[EricB]

It depends on the opposition, but Blair, generally speaking, can play more than his average. Ratliff, wouldn't this have been a perfect time to get him regular game action? When Bonner's back, when does Ratliff get it? My guess is he doesn't and if he doesn't, can he really be expected to step in in a possible series against the Lakers and not look rusty? I know he generally hasn't when called upon, but coming in in a blowout against the Kings is a lot different than being asked to guard Bynum or Gasol in the playoffs. Outside of that, Mahinmi (preferably) or Haislip, would it have killed the Spurs to play one of these two against weaker competition? All these early home games, spaced out as well, even if these guys played sub-par in limited minutes, at least Duncan would have had more help up front and really, would the team have lost any of those games because one of these guys set foot on the court?

That's all the Spurs need from Ratliff, is to protect the rim. Rim protection and length are the biggest weaknesses on the team.

Mahinmi was an ideal match-up against Ibaka. Had the Spurs shown a proclivity to play big early, Brooks likely stays with his normal big man rotation of Green-Krstic-Collison-Ibaka. Mahinmi could have played against any of them save for Green.

What does this indicate we'll see in the playoffs? You think all of a sudden we're going to see strictly traditional lineups? Pop's preference with this group, for whatever reason, appears to be playing small. Even against the Lakers (granted, Gasol was out), he gave Ratliff the hook awfully quick, despite him and the team playing well in his limited run.


Ah you see Jeff Green is a long forward, again, thats not staying big.

The Thunder never "stay big"

they play like they did tonight.

Long wings guards and one big who's not all that big to begin with.

Pop went small against LA because they were small

Bynum Odom Walton Brown and Artest was their lineup.

Thats one center and wings and a guard.

McDyess however played alongside Duncan and guarded Odom well.

[Obstructed_View]

Tony Parker is 27. Comparing the wear and tear on Tim to that of Tony isn't even logical. Manu played his standard 30 mpg. And who gives a shit what Jefferson or anyone "likes"?



Duncan needs the rest...i'm not even sure what to take from this. I can only assume you're a little emotional after not seeing Mahinmi play.


Duncan and the rest of the Spurs only played 5 games.



Blair goes off, so it's Pop's fault for "relying" on him? A role guy goes off and wins the game and you blame the coach for not having a better game plan. ok



It was a master stroke to win the game without their MVP against a solid team that usually beats the Spurs at full strength.



I don't understand it either, but that doesn't mean i'm going to assume the coaching staff are covering their eyes and throwing darts at a roster.



I fail to see how experimenting is more important that winning games. You're going through the schedule trying to find games that could lead to Mahinmi, Hairston or Haislip logging minutes. I want to see these guys play too, but you're being ridiculous.

If it's rest for Duncan at the expense of the other major contributors, I'm still puzzled how you think the Spurs are going to fare better in the playoffs than they did last year. If this win is so important that the Spurs need to shorten the rotation and grind out a win with their vets, why didn't Duncan start? If the games are too important to lose, but Timmy's rest is too important, then at what point are they going to try to develop the young guys? Bonner and Finley are out now, so is there a better opportunity? The Spurs only have one more game against New Jersey.

Does anyone think that a fully healthy Spurs team is going to have a worse chance against the Lakers in the playoffs because Ian Mahinmi didn't get any chances to develop, or because the Spurs lost a January game to the Thunder?

[jag]

For the record: I would have loved to see Mahinmi in there. There were multiple times throughout the game when i thought Mahinmi could have been in there contributing. But Pop's lineups were working. The same lineups that built the 20 pt lead are the ones that lost the 20 pt lead. I fail to see how Mahinmi was the answer for the run the Thunder went on.

[TD 21]

Ah you see Jeff Green is a long forward, again, thats not staying big.

The Thunder never "stay big"

they play like they did tonight.

Long wings guards and one big who's not all that big to begin with.

Pop went small against LA because they were small

Bynum Odom Walton Brown and Artest was their lineup.

Thats one center and wings and a guard.

McDyess however played alongside Duncan and guarded Odom well.

The correct term is combo forward, but in the case of the Thunder, Green plays almost strictly power forward, because they're limited at the big positions, he's either their second or third best player and their best player happens to play small forward.

Like I said, they start Green and Krstic and play Collison and Ibaka off the bench. Earlier in the year, Thomas was in their rotation ahead of Ibaka. They only went super small tonight to match the Spurs.

Odom broke into the league as a three-four, but with the way the game has changed in the past decade, he's officially been a four-three for longer than a while now.

You can define combo forwards like Green and Odom was wings all you want, the fact of the matter is one is 6'9'' 235 and the other is 6'10'' 230; Jefferson is 6'7'' 225. Asking him to guard these types as much as Pop does is playing with fire.

[jag]

If the games are too important to lose, but Timmy's rest is too important, then at what point are they going to try to develop the young guys? Bonner and Finley are out now, so is there a better opportunity? The Spurs only have one more game against New Jersey.



If you cant see the importance of Duncan resting then i don't know what else to tell you.

And it's obviously not enough that Blair is starting and Hill is getting 40+ minutes at times, you want full rookie lineups and player development from a team that is trying to win a championship. Again, I don't know what to tell you.

[Obstructed_View]

It depends on the opposition, but Blair, generally speaking, can play more than his average. Ratliff, wouldn't this have been a perfect time to get him regular game action? When Bonner's back, when does Ratliff get it? My guess is he doesn't and if he doesn't, can he really be expected to step in in a possible series against the Lakers and not look rusty? I know he generally hasn't when called upon, but coming in in a blowout against the Kings is a lot different than being asked to guard Bynum or Gasol in the playoffs. Outside of that, Mahinmi (preferably) or Haislip, would it have killed the Spurs to play one of these two against weaker competition? All these early home games, spaced out as well, even if these guys played sub-par in limited minutes, at least Duncan would have had more help up front and really, would the team have lost any of those games because one of these guys set foot on the court?

That's all the Spurs need from Ratliff, is to protect the rim. Rim protection and length are the biggest weaknesses on the team.

Mahinmi was an ideal match-up against Ibaka. Had the Spurs shown a proclivity to play big early, Brooks likely stays with his normal big man rotation of Green-Krstic-Collison-Ibaka. Mahinmi could have played against any of them save for Green.

What does this indicate we'll see in the playoffs? You think all of a sudden we're going to see strictly traditional lineups? Pop's preference with this group, for whatever reason, appears to be playing small. Even against the Lakers (granted, Gasol was out), he gave Ratliff the hook awfully quick, despite him and the team playing well in his limited run.

Yeah, it's completely amazing to me how people seem to make excuses for Pop's refusal to put a guy in for any length of time, as though it's somehow a sound basketball decision, or that it instantly means a loss if he does it. We all know Pop has a quick hook for young players. You don't think Pop's capable of putting a guy in and saying "play til you fuck up". If you don't believe the guy can play, then why's he on the team? If he can't be trusted to play two or three minutes against OKC in January, then are you going to be able to rely on him if Dice's Achilles lets go in March? As I've said numerous times, if you can't get a young wing and a young big some time with Bonner and Finley both out at the same time, then what exactly is your plan?

[EricB]

The correct term is combo forward, but in the case of the Thunder, Green plays almost strictly power forward, because they're limited at the big positions, he's either their second or third best player and their best player happens to play small forward.

Like I said, they start Green and Krstic and play Collison and Ibaka off the bench. Earlier in the year, Thomas was in their rotation ahead of Ibaka. They only went super small tonight to match the Spurs.

Odom broke into the league as a three-four, but with the way the game has changed in the past decade, he's officially been a four-three for longer than a while now.

You can define combo forwards like Green and Odom was wings all you want, the fact of the matter is one is 6'9'' 235 and the other is 6'10'' 230; Jefferson is 6'7'' 225. Asking him to guard these types as much as Pop does is playing with fire.


Tonight he guarded Green quite well.

He only got off 9 shots and prevented him from balancing the attack out.

Look at the shots taken

Durant took 31 and Westbrook I think took like 25.

2 guys took a huge majority of shots.

That means the defense was working and it was forcing the Thunder into a game they didn't want to play, spreading the ball around to Green, Thabo, Harden and others.

Jefferson is gonna be able to guard a Green easier than mahinmi.

Mahinmi doesn't have the lateral quickness on the perimiter to keep up. Green is a wing, his height doesn't make him a power forward, the Thunder just don't have any good bigs to start two of, so they do it that way.

Sefolosha, if they had good bigs to start two of, would come off the bench.

[Obstructed_View]

If you cant see the importance of Duncan resting then i don't know what else to tell you.

And it's obviously not enough that Blair is starting and Hill is getting 40+ minutes at times, you want full rookie lineups and player development from a team that is trying to win a championship. Again, I don't know what to tell you.

Not sure where you think you've seen that I said that. If you're going to make up fake points to shoot down then we're going to have trouble communicating here.

Let's be crystal clear here: This team isn't trying to win a championship, this team is trying to rest a superstar in January with two major rotation guys injured and another starter hobbled. If they want to have a shot at a championship they're probably going to need to either take some pressure off the other major rotation players during those periods of rest or they're going to need to develop some of their younger players sooner rather than later.

Hey, here's a crazy idea: Do both at the same time!

[EricB]

Not sure where you think you've seen that I said that. If you're going to make up fake points to shoot down then we're going to have trouble communicating here.

Let's be crystal clear here: This team isn't trying to win a championship, this team is trying to rest a superstar in January with two major rotation guys injured and another starter hobbled. If they want to have a shot at a championship they're probably going to need to either take some pressure off the other major rotation players during those periods of rest or they're going to need to develop some of their younger players sooner rather than later.

Hey, here's a crazy idea: Do both at the same time!



I would disagree that Finley is a major rotation player anymore.


It doesn't take this long to come back from a grade two sprained ankle.

[ShoogarBear]

Bottom line, no matter which side of the argument you fall on, it is a legitimate basketball question to ask why a coach would decide to bench a starter and then SHORTEN the lineup on the end of a B2B.

And also why a guy who got 15 and 9 can't get off the bench. It was just New Jersey? Well, how many get 15 and 9 against the Nets?

My question is whether somebody in the SA media actually had the balls to ask Pop that.

[TD 21]

Tonight he guarded Green quite well.

He only got off 9 shots and prevented him from balancing the attack out.

Look at the shots taken

Durant took 31 and Westbrook I think took like 25.

2 guys took a huge majority of shots.

That means the defense was working and it was forcing the Thunder into a game they didn't want to play, spreading the ball around to Green, Thabo, Harden and others.

Jefferson is gonna be able to guard a Green easier than mahinmi.

Mahinmi doesn't have the lateral quickness on the perimiter to keep up. Green is a wing, his height doesn't make him a power forward, the Thunder just don't have any good bigs to start two of, so they do it that way.

Sefolosha, if they had good bigs to start two of, would come off the bench.

Yeah and Jefferson matches up decent with Green, but in general asking him to consistently guard players bigger than him is playing with fire. Like the Trail Blazers game, when he was inexplicably guarding Aldridge.

As I said, save for Green, Mahinmi could/should have played against any of the other Thunder bigs (include Green in that because he regularly mans a big position, even if he's technically not a true/traditional big).

I doubt Sefolosha would come off the bench; if anything, Green might. Sefolosha is their stopper and is receiving praise as being amongst the top wing defenders in the league this season.

[Obstructed_View]

For the record: I would have loved to see Mahinmi in there. There were multiple times throughout the game when i thought Mahinmi could have been in there contributing. But Pop's lineups were working. The same lineups that built the 20 pt lead are the ones that lost the 20 pt lead. I fail to see how Mahinmi was the answer for the run the Thunder went on.

Not sure how that qualifies as "working" to you, but I presume that your contention is that fatigue had zero to do with it, and a player like Hairston or Mahinmi getting a few minutes of playing time would have instantly caused a hypothetical situation where the Spurs lose this game, and it seriously damages their chances at a title.

As you said earlier, the Spurs are trying to win a title, but it sounds from the above like they were trying pretty desperately not to choke away another big lead in a mid-season game. I'm dreading your further contention that the outcome of the game somehow justifies the rotation.

[jag]

Not sure where you think you've seen that I said that. If you're going to make up fake points to shoot down then we're going to have trouble communicating here.

Let's be crystal clear here: This team isn't trying to win a championship, this team is trying to rest a superstar in January with two major rotation guys injured and another starter hobbled. If they want to have a shot at a championship they're probably going to need to either take some pressure off the other major rotation players during those periods of rest or they're going to need to develop some of their younger players sooner rather than later.

Hey, here's a crazy idea: Do both at the same time!


You're asking for better player development. You're painting this picture of Pop as a coach who refuses to develop or play younger players. Blair is starting and Hill is getting heavy minutes, but you still want more. This isn't a team that is rebuilding, this isn't the Griz or even the Thunder, that can just throw out Ibaka and see how he does.

Again, it would have been nice to see Ian out there, but not playing him isn't a bad coaching decision.

[Obstructed_View]

I would disagree that Finley is a major rotation player anymore.
He was when he went out. The opportunity has been there all along to develop Hairston by giving him some of Finley's minutes. Having done that ever since Fin went down might have allowed him to take some of the pressure off the lineup tonight. How exactly is that a bad thing for the team?

[jag]

Bottom line, no matter which side of the argument you fall on, it is a legitimate basketball question to ask why a coach would decide to bench a starter and then SHORTEN the lineup on the end of a B2B.

And also why a guy who got 15 and 9 can't get off the bench. It was just New Jersey? Well, how many get 15 and 9 against the Nets?

My question is whether somebody in the SA media actually had the balls to ask Pop that.

It's frustrating, but i don't think this falls under the category of a poorly coached game that the Spurs won in "in spite of Pop."


Not sure how that qualifies as "working" to you, but I presume that your contention is that fatigue had zero to do with it, and a player like Hairston or Mahinmi getting a few minutes of playing time would have instantly caused a hypothetical situation where the Spurs lose this game, and it seriously damages their chances at a title.

As you said earlier, the Spurs are trying to win a title, but it sounds from the above like they were trying pretty desperately not to choke away another big lead in a mid-season game. I'm dreading your further contention that the outcome of the game somehow justifies the rotation.

The Spurs went with RJ, Tony and Manu as their scorers tonight. Manu disappeared and RJ was barely mediocre. Pop's big-man rotation was not the issue...Manu laying an egg, however, was.

[all_heart]

I'd love to see Ian and Haislip get some quality minutes, but I think too many people here see this as some sort of priority for the Spurs. Yes, I sometimes question Pops decisions.. however.. it's no coincidence that Ian got some quality minutes and stats for the 1st time all year against the lowly Nets. Guys like Ian are not going to win playoff games this year for the Spurs so why are so many people overly concerned with this? Midway through the season, the Spurs focus is to continue to improve defensively, start accumulating wins and rest guys like Timmy so he can be fresher for the playoffs. Cutting down on turnovers and getting rhythm is going to involve a shortened rotation, there's just too many new people to integrate this year to go deep into bench and expect consistency. The Lakers rely on their core group to get things done, despite their shitty bench. Kobe logging so many minutes while being hurt no less is stupid though, but hey that's their fuckin problem.

[Obstructed_View]

You're asking for better player development. You're painting this picture of Pop as a coach who refuses to develop or play younger players. Blair is starting and Hill is getting heavy minutes, but you still want more. This isn't a team that is rebuilding, this isn't the Griz or even the Thunder, that can just throw out Ibaka and see how he does.

Again, it would have been nice to see Ian out there, but not playing him isn't a bad coaching decision.

Blair's started 13 games, so it's not like Pop came upon the realization that he should be starting early. Bonner got injured, and Dice and Latif have stunk on ice, so again, it's not like his finally arriving at the decision to start Blair was revolutionary. Pulling Blair from the starting lineup the same time he pulled out Duncan was about as bumbling as tonight's decision to shorten the rotation on the second night of a B2B.

I'm not painting Pop as a guy who refuses to play younger players, the fact that Pop is refusing to play younger players is what paints him that way. I didn't make Roger Mason the backup point guard, he did. Ian Mahinmi or Malik Hairston may not be able to play, but how on earth does finding that out in January hurt the team?

You have three priorities:

Rest Tim Duncan
Don't overwork your main rotation
Win games

How does "develop young players" fail to dovetail perfectly with the above three priorities?

[ShoogarBear]

It's frustrating, but i don't think this falls under the category of a poorly coached game that the Spurs won in "in spite of Pop."

Oh, yeah. I wasn't jumping off the AHF cliff. :lol

And Pop's rotation strategies have always been a little odd at this time of year, to say the least.

[jag]

I'd love to see Ian and Haislip get some quality minutes, but I think too many people here see this as some sort of priority for the Spurs. Yes, I sometimes question Pops decisions.. however.. it's no coincidence that Ian got some quality minutes and stats for the 1st time all year against the lowly Nets. Guys like Ian are not going to win playoff games this year for the Spurs so why are so many people overly concerned with this? Midway through the season, the Spurs focus is to continue to improve defensively, start accumulating wins and rest guys like Timmy so he can be fresher for the playoffs. Cutting down on turnovers and getting rhythm is going to involve a shortened rotation, there's just too many new people to integrate this year to go deep into bench and expect consistency. The Lakers rely on their core group to get things done, despite their shitty bench. Kobe logging so many minutes while being hurt no less is stupid though, but hey that's their fuckin problem.

Good post. Though i don't really understand why Pop would shorten the bench, It makes sense that RJ, McDyess and Blair are logging heavy minutes together as a means to develop chemistry.

[Obstructed_View]

It's frustrating, but i don't think this falls under the category of a poorly coached game that the Spurs won in "in spite of Pop."



The Spurs went with RJ, Tony and Manu as their scorers tonight. Manu disappeared and RJ was barely mediocre. Pop's big-man rotation was not the issue...Manu laying an egg, however, was.

So the Spurs went into the second night of a back to back relying on a guy who isn't integrated into the offense yet, a guy coming back from an injury, and a guy who complained that he's tired and also has PF in his jumping foot. Those guys played heavy minutes in an overtime game so Timmy could get some rest.

I'm sorry, but can you explain to me how this situation isn't compounded by the inability to trust in any of the young players again, or how exactly it makes the Spurs better prepared for a seven game series against a healthy Laker team?

[jag]

Blair's started 13 games, so it's not like Pop came upon the realization that he should be starting early. Bonner got injured, and Dice and Latif have stunk on ice, so again, it's not like his finally arriving at the decision to start Blair was revolutionary. Pulling Blair from the starting lineup the same time he pulled out Duncan was about as bumbling as tonight's decision to shorten the rotation on the second night of a B2B.

I'm not painting Pop as a guy who refuses to play younger players, the fact that Pop is refusing to play younger players is what paints him that way. I didn't make Roger Mason the backup point guard, he did. Ian Mahinmi or Malik Hairston may not be able to play, but how on earth does finding that out in January hurt the team?

You have three priorities:

Rest Tim Duncan
Don't overwork your main rotation
Win games

How does "develop young players" fail to dovetail perfectly with the above three priorities?

Pop has admitted his past mistakes with Hill...and it seems like he's doing everything in his power to develop Hill and make him playoff ready. On top of that he's starting Blair and giving him heavy minutes. How many players do you want a team to develop while they are trying to contend for a title?

With Duncan out the Spurs had a chance to grab this win and rest for the Bobcats...they did just that. I want to see Mahinmi and Hairston get minutes, but that doesn't mean Pop coached a bad game.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop has admitted his past mistakes with Hill...and it seems like he's doing everything in his power to develop Hill and make him playoff ready. On top of that he's starting Blair and giving him heavy minutes. How many players do you want a team to develop while they are trying to contend for a title?

When they have Finley and Bonner out injured and have fifteen guys on the roster in a year they're WAY over the salary cap? I don't think it's too much to ask that they try to get minutes for the guys they've got, one or the other on a given night.

Also, may we please stop throwing Blair in with the players that need development? The guy narrowly missed a 30/20 night tonight and has outplayed all the other bigs not named Duncan. And if Hill isn't established as the backup point guard for this team by now, then it was a huge mistake to draft him so high.

And those of us lobbying for Mahinmi to get minutes are pretty well convinced that he's going to be helpful to get the Spurs past a healthy Laker front line. Maybe tonight wasn't the night to get him some burn with Duncan out, though I don't really understand why, but if not him, then why not Hairston? With Manu and Mason stinking on ice, does giving him two or three minutes doom the Spurs to a loss the instant he steps on the floor during a meaningful time of the game?

[all_heart]

Good post. Though i don't really understand why Pop would shorten the bench, It makes sense that RJ, McDyess and Blair are logging heavy minutes together as a means to develop chemistry.

You kind answered your own question. It's not so much that end of the bench players will make more mistakes, it's about your core guys developing chemistry out there on the court, they need time out there together. All those guys you mentioned and Hill need to gel with our big 3. RJ is a whole other thread.:rolleyes

[jag]

And those of us lobbying for Mahinmi to get minutes are pretty well convinced that he's going to be helpful to get the Spurs past a healthy Laker front line. Maybe tonight wasn't the night to get him some burn with Duncan out, though I don't really understand why, but if not him, then why not Hairston? With Manu and Mason stinking on ice, does giving him two or three minutes doom the Spurs to a loss the instant he steps on the floor during a meaningful time of the game?

I'm one of those lobbying for Mahinmi to get minutes. You're preaching to the choir. But that doesn't mean i'm going to lose all rationality and label Pop as incompetent or a detriment just because i'm not getting what i want, exactly when i want it. There's no telling how the Spurs are going to use Mahinmi. There's no telling if they even want they guy...so to me it seems pointless to presume Mahinmi could be the guy who puts the Spurs over the top.

I'm getting some sleep.

[all_heart]

When they have Finley and Bonner out injured and have fifteen guys on the roster in a year they're WAY over the salary cap? I don't think it's too much to ask that they try to get minutes for the guys they've got, one or the other on a given night.

Also, may we please stop throwing Blair in with the players that need development? The guy narrowly missed a 30/20 night tonight and has outplayed all the other bigs not named Duncan. And if Hill isn't established as the backup point guard for this team by now, then it was a huge mistake to draft him so high.

And those of us lobbying for Mahinmi to get minutes are pretty well convinced that he's going to be helpful to get the Spurs past a healthy Laker front line. Maybe tonight wasn't the night to get him some burn with Duncan out, though I don't really understand why, but if not him, then why not Hairston? With Manu and Mason stinking on ice, does giving him two or three minutes doom the Spurs to a loss the instant he steps on the floor during a meaningful time of the game?

Blair can do that with raw talent, but he does need to develop his game and not just score on putbacks and learn how not to foul so much. He's a rookie!

Regardless of what Ian may be able to contribute, do you really think a player who's hardly played the past 2 yrs and played in only 1 game this year so far is all of a sudden going to be a factor in the playoffs. Sure there's still time for him to crack the rotation but it's not going to happen this year. It's not priority.

What does Hairston really gain by playing only a few minutes? It's not like he's going to dominate in those minutes and all of a sudden be a factor. It's like what was said before, the Spurs aren't rebuilding, so end of the bench development isn't a must. Maybe we'll see much more of those guys next year.

[Whisky Dog]

I feel bad for Mahinmi. The kid just doesn't get a chance even after playing so well, and he seems like a good, hard working kid with a lot of upside. I don't care if he practices worth a shit, let the kid prove that he can play worth a shit.

Great win, but they were up 8 with 3 to go in reg and almost blew it because the lineups were far too small to stop anyone in the paint.

[veji1]

I was as surprised as many here that Pop didn't give any burn to Ian or Theo. No one is arguing that they should have played 20 minutes, but at least one of those two could have contributed 5/10 minutes in the first 3 quarters to give other guys a breather and protect the rim in a Zone defense..

We won so I guess it's no big deal, but that is the kind of game where the coach could have given it a try...

Anyway, it must be hard for Ian, I hope he gets traded for a piece that is of use to the spurs to a team where he would play, so that everybody wins.

[venitian navigator]

Blair can do that with raw talent, but he does need to develop his game and not just score on putbacks and learn how not to foul so much. He's a rookie!

Regardless of what Ian may be able to contribute, do you really think a player who's hardly played the past 2 yrs and played in only 1 game this year so far is all of a sudden going to be a factor in the playoffs. Sure there's still time for him to crack the rotation but it's not going to happen this year. It's not priority.

What does Hairston really gain by playing only a few minutes? It's not like he's going to dominate in those minutes and all of a sudden be a factor. It's like what was said before, the Spurs aren't rebuilding, so end of the bench development isn't a must. Maybe we'll see much more of those guys next year.

I think you're right but at the some time it's obvious that playing for two years in a row in the nbdl with the Toros should put you in a very more easy position for gaining a spot in the rotation when needed...expecially if, in the rare occasions you had to show what yopu can do with the team, you played fairly well...and that's not happening!

The point is that in Pop's mind Finley and Bonner/Ratliff, this season, will always have a place, like 10th, 11th ahnd 12th man before, respectively, Hairston and Mahinmi.
So, despite their willing top prove themselves, there will be no reason (expecially consiedring their contract situations) to let them play (barring obviously emergency circumstances)...
Looks that all the good signs Hairston and Mahinmi will give to the coach and F.O. this year in training and (for little sttratìches) on the court will be evaluated only (excluding emercgency) in the wiew of giving them a contract next year and deciding for what amount of money...

[Brazil]

My biggest problem with pop is not his decision to play Ian or not. I'd prefer see Ian for sure but I can respect that decision. Anyway the most disturbing thing for is the decision to shorten the rotation to 8 players on a back to back on the road. If no space for Ian because of OKC low size why not for instance playing Hairston ? Why risking injuries on this game for playing 8 exhausted players ?

[TJastal]

Erm..

So I'm supposed to believe this was a great thing that Duncan sat out the entire game roasting marshmallows and singing kumbyah while 8 other guys got run through meat grinder, one of which has just been diagnosed with a foot injury and the other who's lack of health the past few post-seasons has doomed the spurs?

Thunder score 54 points in the paint yet I'm supposed to believe its a good move to shorten the rotation and not play the two other guys besides Duncan that could have helped out protecting the paint. (Ian and Theo)

I'm supposed to believe Mahinmi (who was drafted the same year as Bynum) can never be a factor in a playoff run despite putting up almost a double-double in his first real game as a spur. And that Hairston & Haislip playing a few minutes can't help either, cuz they suck.

Well hell, since our bench is so horrible we should just cut down to a 7-8 man rotation like the lakers have been doing. You know, since they all healthy and playing so well and everything.

And sit Duncan out all the B2B games. We'll ride those 8 guys until "chemistry" is their middle name. Ya!

:rollin

[ElNono]

I thought Pop was running this team to the ground last night... Absolutely agree that he should have played, at the very least, Hairston for spot minutes. Guys had no legs out there at the end, and we were extremely lucky to win the game.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that if Duncan would not have sit out and played his usual 32 minutes, we would still be talking about Blair's rookie wall and what he cannot do.
It's obvious the kid can play when given opportunities. Unfortunately, Dice is getting more playing time than him wether he's playing well or not.

I lost my faith on Pop playing youngsters with a lot of talent over vets sucking ass last season. Specifically when he kept on playing Finley on Durant while Hill was warming up the bench. I hope Pop took a hard look at Blair last night and realized he's handicapping the team when he does that shit.

[/rant]

[EVAY]

Congrats to the team for laying it all out tonight.

Pop deserves six swift kicks to the junk for a shortened bench and no one taller than 'Dice seeing the floor tonight. Larry Brown is the worst thing to ever happen to Pop's coaching decisions.

This has to be one of if not the worst coached game of Pop's career.

When you're right, you're right. Pop was thanking the 'basketball gods' for the win after the game because he knew damn well that if the spurs had lost it was ALL gonna be on him.

[jb4g]

im also surprised Mahinmi didnt see any action, especially when OKC put their rookie big guy in and he was killing us with his energy on the boards. There was a good 5 minute stretch that I was just screaming for him to be put in the game

[vander]

Doesn't losing a game on purpose hurt longterm strategy though?


Again, I don't see who in the playoffs he takes minutes from.

if Blair Duncan and McDyess and Bonner are all playing well, how does he step in front of em?

as in future years, so we can get an idea of what we have with him, and don't make decisions about him this off season blindly. maybe he could make McDyess expendable going into next year, or maybe he's hardly worth a roster spot, Spurs FO going to decide on that based on performance in practice?

we can't even give the guy one Game when Timmy is sitting it out and Bonner is injured and it isn't "After March" yet? bad move IMO

[benefactor]

I really don't understand any of you that think the rotations last night were a good idea...not counting TPark, of course(Jeff Green is a wing? :lmao).

Playing a rotation like this in back to back games is not about chemistry. That is a Pop apologist cop out. The Thunder are an athletic team...and you have an athletic big on the bench that knows the system and played pretty well against another NBA rotation big just a couple of games ago. You also have another young, athletic player that is a good defender that knows the system very well. Oh, and there is that veteran big you signed because the team needed shot blocking(as TJastal pointed out, we gave up 54 points in the paint).

Would Mahinmi, Hairston or Ratliff made a difference? I think they could have. At the very least Hairston could play 10 minutes while Parker got a little bit more rest and Hill ran the point. Ratliff or Mahinmi could have given Blair a few extra minutes on the bench that might have kept him from picking up that extra foul so he could be in there at the end of the game. A better case scenario suggests that one of those two could have blocked a shot or two in the third quarter that led to a fast break and an easy bucket....or Hairston, who is very good at blocking jump shooters, could have made a great defensive play on Durant. Things like that tend to change momentum, so maybe the run the Thunder went on gets shortened and the Spurs don't have to worry about overtime.

Though these scenarios are hypothetical, they are all plausible. Would they have happened for sure? Maybe not. But in a game like this there is no good reason not to test them, as all three players have the potential to execute them.

[ElNono]

as in future years, so we can get an idea of what we have with him, and don't make decisions about him this off season blindly.

The Spurs already made a decision about Ian's future (or lack of future for that matter) with the Spurs when they decided not to extend his rookie deal a month or two ago.

[dbestpro]

I think Pop did a great job with the Xs and Os. I blame some of the problem on coach Bud. Does he have Pops ear like PJ or has he just become a yes man. A good assistant would have made sure Pop was seeing how tired the guys were once they built the big lead. They lost the lead because they were tired. They won the game because of fate as they were dead beat. Haislip and Ian should have seen minutes just because the players were dead tired. It has nothing to do with whether Ian sticks around or not. He is dressed in a uniform for a reason. The reason last night should have been to spell the big dogs and give them a blow. Coach Bud needs to make sure that Pop sees these things. That is unless coach Bud is just a yes man.

[HankChinaski]

The only thing I didn't like about last night game was the spurs pulling away from letting Blair and Hill score in the last five or four minutes of the fourth. They were our hot players and watching parker toss up eggs those last few minutes was getting me pissed at the guy until he finally hit that clutch jumper to help pull us into over time. And McDyess their a few times kept hesitating on taking the jumper and would try and penetrate and force something worse. It was annoying at times. Man was looking confident on his shot and started pulling away from it. He even had a great up fake and then instead of just taking the step forward and shooting he tries to go through two and a third defender closing in on the paint.

And the only reason I don't see Pop playing Mahinmi, Hairston, Haislip is mostly due they are probably not going to be in the playoff rotation at all so Pop wants to know what he has with the players he is already invested in playing. They are just precautionary backups if anything goes wrong.

Overall, it was a nerve racking enjoyable game. The team HAS been looking good all season, just never through an entire 48 minutes straight against those .500+ teams.

[ceperez]

Playing a rotation like this in back to back games is not about chemistry. That is a Pop apologist cop out. The Thunder are an athletic team...and you have an athletic big on the bench that knows the system and played pretty well against another NBA rotation big just a couple of games ago. You also have another young, athletic player that is a good defender that knows the system very well. Oh, and there is that veteran big you signed because the team needed shot blocking(as TJastal pointed out, we gave up 54 points in the paint).

Would Mahinmi, Hairston or Ratliff made a difference? I think they could have. At the very least Hairston could play 10 minutes while Parker got a little bit more rest and Hill ran the point. Ratliff or Mahinmi could have given Blair a few extra minutes on the bench that might have kept him from picking up that extra foul so he could be in there at the end of the game. A better case scenario suggests that one of those two could have blocked a shot or two in the third quarter that led to a fast break and an easy bucket....or Hairston, who is very good at blocking jump shooters, could have made a great defensive play on Durant. Things like that tend to change momentum, so maybe the run the Thunder went on gets shortened and the Spurs don't have to worry about overtime.

Though these scenarios are hypothetical, they are all plausible. Would they have happened for sure? Maybe not. But in a game like this there is no good reason not to test them, as all three players have the potential to execute them.

Finally, we are on the same page!!

For a minute there, I thought you were missing in action after Mahinmi big game against the Nets.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't really understand how a team that went way over the salary cap to gather what they think is a championship contender has two guys that can't get a single minute with two rotation players injured, a superstar resting, and the rest of the rotation gassed. If you don't trust them against Oklahoma City, how are they going to help you if someone gets hurt and they have to step in? And if you aren't going to get any use out of them, why are you still paying them? Why are you still suiting them up?

[benefactor]

I don't really understand how a team that went way over the salary cap to gather what they think is a championship contender has two guys that can't get a single minute with two rotation players injured, a superstar resting, and the rest of the rotation gassed. If you don't trust them against Oklahoma City, how are they going to help you if someone gets hurt and they have to step in? And if you aren't going to get any use out of them, why are you still paying them? Why are you still suiting them up?
Logic..it's what's for dinner.

[Obstructed_View]

Logic..it's what's for dinner.

The complete lack of which has turned me against Pop over the last five years.

[TJastal]

The complete lack of which has turned me against Pop over the last five years.

Yup, been there for awhile now myself.

[all_heart]

I think everybody here has valid points, but really what can we do other than to hope that Pop knows what he's doing and try to apply some sense to it. Everybody should really be questioning RJ, the guy is capable of so much more than what he shows out there, even Sean says those things if listen between the lines..

[elbamba]

I think everybody here has valid points, but really what can we do other than to hope that Pop knows what he's doing and try to apply some sense to it. Everybody should really be questioning RJ, the guy is capable of so much more than what he shows out there, even Sean says those things if listen between the lines..

On the RJ note. I think he is starting to get a feel for his role, however, he has at least 1-2 bone head passes a night. He needs to work on that. He is too tall to always get the ball picked off on his post passes to Tim.

[all_heart]

On the RJ note. I think he is starting to get a feel for his role, however, he has at least 1-2 bone head passes a night. He needs to work on that. He is too tall to always get the ball picked off on his post passes to Tim.

I suppose he is, his points are usually "quiet", (unless he throws it down). He needs to attack the basket more and work on free throws. Did you notice somebody (Dice maybe) had to almost push him to his proper defensive spot on the floor. He does have that lost look at times. But hopefully he'll come around soon.

[my2sons]

[QUOTE=HarlemHeat37;3994346]The lineups weren't fine at all..

At one point, there was a lineup consisting of Parker, Hill, Manu, Mason and Blair..Mason was fucking guarding Jeff Green..luckily the Thunder didn't go to him..

Pop played an 8-man rotation, despite playing against an athletic team that always gives us problems and we were on a b2b..he didn't play an interior defender at all this game and the entire team was clearly dead by the 4th..he should have used the young guys and the bench more IMO..

Pop wasn't the main or only problem, but he coached a poor game tonight IMO..[/QUOTE




So your saying jeff green did nothing with this lineup, ya pop is a moron

[Manufan909]

There are two sides to this debate and they are very simple:
1. Pop is God and shall never be questioned, or,
2. There's a young guy over there who is quick, mobile, 7ft tall, loves to run the floor and block shots, had 15/9 the other night against a 3-34 team... he really should have gotten some run tonight. WTF, Pop???

I am in the 2 camp.

fify

[Obstructed_View]

So Jerry Sloan can call up a guy from D league who can step in and run the point in a game against the best team in the league, score nine points in nine minutes, and hit the game winner, but the Spurs can't get ten or twelve minutes against Oklahoma City from two guys with at least four years' experience in the Spurs system.