Official All Kobe, All The Time Thread

[midnightpulp]

Guess it takes an injury, the legitimacy of which is in doubt given Cubby's penchant for drama and self hype, for the "Mamba" to finally reign in his chucking enough to let the Lakers supporting cast shine.

In all the recent Laker losses where Kobe has posted historically awful shooting numbers, the Lakers were getting their collective faces curb-stomped into the hardwood. In tonight's game the the greatest second option in NBA history (arguably) was relegated to role player status and the results were ten fold better. The Lakers led wire-to-wire with the entire team contributing and Kobe being the 4th or 5th best player for the Purple 'n Gold.

This should come to no surprise to real students of the game. Kobe has always been a better 2nd or even 3rd fiddle. But yet his slacked-jawed (a condition that they have no problem with as it keeps their mouth permanently open to receive Kobe's diseased manhood any time number 24 feels like having a spasm that's not in his back) idiot fans neglect all this, choosing only to focus on PPG and "clutch shots" that come after Kome has went 4-18.

To real Laker fans you have a hell of a squad and sure fire 16th ring if Kobe can accept the role he was actually destined for.

[namlook]

What a delusional mess of a post. No MVP is a role player.

[PGDynasty24]

Wow another Kobe thread. You guys are obsessed. Duncan is sitting out and he's not even hurt. What a joke the OP is

[Amaso]

You do realize he just won a title last year as the #1 option right?

[Donkeybong]

this thread is beyond stupid

[midnightpulp]

Wow another Kobe thread. You guys are obsessed. Duncan is sitting out and he's not even hurt. What a joke the OP is

Why so defensive? I actually just gave the ENTIRE Lakers team props, essentially calling them unbeatable if everyone knows their role and you call me a joke.

Make up your mind. Do you root for the front of the jersey or the back?

[j.dizzle]

LOL no surprises here..Ppl hating on kobe like they're supposed to..Keep it up brothas

[j.dizzle]

We already know we have a hell of a squad, bitch. We own the title, best record in the league, TEAM OF THE DECADE, PLAYER OF THE DECADE. Its all good in LA.:toast
:toast Ill drink to that cuzin

[PGDynasty24]

Why so defensive? I actually just gave the ENTIRE Lakers team props, essentially calling them unbeatable if everyone knows their role and you call me a joke.

Make up your mind. Do you root for the front of the jersey or the back?

While calling Kobe a role-player.

[namlook]

When this many people hate you it means you are good, damn good.

[midnightpulp]

We already know we have a hell of a squad, bitch. We own the title, best record in the league, TEAM OF THE DECADE, PLAYER OF THE DECADE. Its all good in LA.:toast



Except when the other professional sports teams (or lackthereof, cough, cough, NFL) play. Sadly, I'm a SoCal native and haven't enjoyed a local ship since '88. Always had too much self-respect to root for that circus you call yourself a fan of.

And try reading other news sites besides ESPN. Lakers/Spurs essentially split Team of the Decade honors, and Kobe and Duncan split player honors, which makes no sense since Duncan is actually a true first option, but you know the media, so desperate for the next Jordan.

[midnightpulp]

While calling Kobe a role-player.

Why not? KG went from first option to glorified role-player when he got to the loaded Celtics.

Would you rather win or have Kobe put up numbers and receive individual awards?

[namlook]

If you think it makes no sense that Duncan and Kobe split player of the decade honors, you know nothing about the game of basketball my friend.

Funny how Lakers fans can give Duncan credit but not the other way around. It's called having knowledge about the game.

[midnightpulp]

If you think it makes no sense that Duncan and Kobe split player of the decade honors, you know nothing about the game of basketball my friend.

Duncan's career thus far shits all over Kobe's. Team leader and first option on 3 championship teams to Cubby's 1. 2 Finals MVPs to Cubby's 1. 2 regular season MVPs to Cubby's 1. More total MVP award shares and the same amount of 1st teams.

lern2basketballreference and quit watching espn and prime ticket for your basketball analysis.

But hell, you probably used to nod in agreement with Jack Haley.

[mavsfan1000]

Whatever Kobe decides to do, it is a benefit to the team. The team wins both ways so Kobe's prescence can be enough sometimes.

[midnightpulp]

When this many people hate you it means you are good, damn good.

Do you have reading comprehension issues? Did I just not sing your team's praises?

Where am I hating? Be specific.

I guess hating is defined by you Kobe homers as someone who refuses to accept his jizz all over their face.

[rhyputa]

He just wants to win, that's all.

[MiamiHeat]

When this many people hate you it means you are good, damn good.

Awesome, then I am the best poster on this board since all of you laker fans hate me so much

thanks for the logic!

[rhyputa]

Awesome, then I am the best poster on this board since all of you laker fans hate me so much

thanks for the logic!

We don't hate you, we make fun of you :rollin

[MiamiHeat]

I don't hate Kobe, I make fun of him :lol

[namlook]

Let the hate continue. Kobe will just keep winning those rings and Lakers fans will keep on celebrating. :toast

[midnightpulp]

Let the hate continue. Kobe will just keep winning those rings and Lakers fans will keep on celebrating. :toast

Most likely as a role-player.

Will you be okay with that?

[MiamiHeat]

Laker fans are obsessed with Bryant, more so than the success of the Lakers franchise

which is funny to me, because Bryant forced the Lakers to lose 2004 finals, destroyed the dynasty, and then demanded a trade, and ballhogs.

[cobbler]

Guess it takes an injury, the legitimacy of which is in doubt given Cubby's penchant for drama and self hype, for the "Mamba" to finally reign in his chucking enough to let the Lakers supporting cast shine.

In all the recent Laker losses where Kobe has posted historically awful shooting numbers, the Lakers were getting their collective faces curb-stomped into the hardwood. In tonight's game the the greatest second option in NBA history (arguably) was relegated to role player status and the results were ten fold better. The Lakers led wire-to-wire with the entire team contributing and Kobe being the 4th or 5th best player for the Purple 'n Gold.

This should come to no surprise to real students of the game. Kobe has always been a better 2nd or even 3rd fiddle. But yet his slacked-jawed (a condition that they have no problem with as it keeps their mouth permanently open to receive Kobe's diseased manhood any time number 24 feels like having a spasm that's not in his back) idiot fans neglect all this, choosing only to focus on PPG and "clutch shots" that come after Kome has went 4-18.

To real Laker fans you have a hell of a squad and sure fire 16th ring if Kobe can accept the role he was actually destined for.

Yeah...cause this last second win was so much more impressive than the 35 point curbstomping 2 weeks ago! :lmao

[PGDynasty24]

Laker fans are obsessed with Bryant, more so than the success of the Lakers franchise

which is funny to me, because Bryant destroyed the first dynasty, and then demanded a trade

did he? or was it the big man who when he leaves a team he leaves on bad terms. Penny,Kobe,Wade

[namlook]

Most likely as a role-player.

Will you be okay with that?

It's all about winning. Lakers fans don't care how it happens. Kobe will still be top dog for the next few years.

[namlook]

did he? or was it the big man who when he leaves a team he leaves on bad terms. Penny,Kobe,Wade

Shaq was actually the player than demanded the trade first. The Lakers accomodated his request. Jerry Buss doesn't like it when you embarrass him publically and yell at him during a game "pay me!" like Shaq did.

[JamStone]

Duncan's career thus far shits all over Kobe's. Team leader and first option on 3 championship teams to Cubby's 1. 2 Finals MVPs to Cubby's 1. 2 regular season MVPs to Cubby's 1. More total MVP award shares and the same amount of 1st teams.

lern2basketballreference and quit watching espn and prime ticket for your basketball analysis.

But hell, you probably used to nod in agreement with Jack Haley.

Did you start following the Spurs in 2000?

[midnightpulp]

Yeah...cause this last second win was so much more impressive than the 35 point curbstomping 2 weeks ago! :lmao

On the road, a B2B, without your best player and your third best player complaining of back problems, it just might be.

Context is everything, my friend.

[MiamiHeat]

did he? or was it the big man who when he leaves a team he leaves on bad terms. Penny,Kobe,Wade

In "The Last Season" Jackson suggests Bryant's influence on the dissolution and labels him "uncoachable." According to Jackson, in Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."





he's been one whiny bitch his entire career.

[midnightpulp]

Did you start following the Spurs in 2000?

We were talking about "decade." I omitted the 99 accomplishments to prevent Laker fan from whining about 99 not being a part of the current decade.

[namlook]

On the road, a B2B, without your best player and your third best player complaining of back problems, it just might be.

Context is everything, my friend.

The Lakers won a championship with Kobe as the primary option. Sorry to break it to you but that will not change for a while. You might want to stop watching basketball for the next five years if it bothers you.

[JamStone]

You wrote "Duncan's career."

[midnightpulp]

:wow:wow:wow

99-2009. Duncan's ship doesn't count. In the 99-00 season (your first year as a Lakers fan) the Lakers won the title.

Moron.

[UrAphag]

Why is ChrisRichards allowed to have 3 accounts?

[BRHornet45]

Let the hate continue. Kobe will just keep having other players like Gasol and Shaq win rings for him while he receives all of the credit and Lakers fans will keep on celebrating. :toast

fixed son

[BRHornet45]

In "The Last Season" Jackson suggests Bryant's influence on the dissolution and labels him "uncoachable." According to Jackson, in Bryant's exit interview with him he stated that O'Neal's fate with the Lakers would affect his decision to return, saying "I'm tired of being a sidekick."





he's been one whiny bitch his entire career.

exactly ... anyone who truly understands the game of basketball knows that Kobe is nothing more than an over hyped role player. the dude has never accomplished anything on his own. again ...

3 rings = thank you Shaq
1 ring = thank you Gasol
MVP aka Lifetime Achievement Award = thank you media

[21_Blessings]

...

3 rings = thank you Shaq
1 ring = thank you Gasol



Cp3 1 Olympic Gold Medal = thank you Kobe

[21_Blessings]

Fucking lol. Chris Paul couldn't even win a silver medal in the Worlds playing next to Bron, Wade, Bosh and Dwight. What a fucking loser.

[BRHornet45]

Fucking lol. Chris Paul couldn't even win a silver medal in the Worlds playing next to Bron, Wade, Bosh and Dwight. What a fucking loser.

son I don't remember this thread being about anyone other than the role player Kobe ....

but at least Chris Paul can put up respectable shooting percentages unlike Kobe "I jack up 35 shots a game because its all about me" Bryant.

lol damn son ... last season Paul put up 23 points per game, shooting .503% on 16 shot attempts per game. Kobe on the other hand put up 26 points per game shooting a PATHETIC .467% on 21 shot attempts! so son Paul averaged only 3 less points per game but with 5 LESS SHOT ATTEMPTS than Kobe! LOLZZZZZZZ ... not to mention the drastic 3PT and FT percentages as well which Paul is much better at. oh and lets not forget about the 11 assist per game too.

[Donkeybong]

Since this Forum is all things Kobe now..


http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/13/video-kobe-visits-sesame-street/

LQ_PjIDWgMY

[Ghazi]

This game didn't mean much. Lakers just hit a bunch of lucky shots. Powell 3 pointer, Artest 3 FT's before close of half, Mbenga jumper, Kobe prayer, Farmar buzzer beater... doesn't mean the Lakers are better when Kobe is taking less shots.

Anyway like Stu LAntz said, Kobe is the best decoy in the game... he's still having an impact whether it's 10 or 30 shots.

[iggypop123]

This game didn't mean much. Lakers just hit a bunch of lucky shots. Powell 3 pointer, Artest 3 FT's before close of half, Mbenga jumper, Kobe prayer, Farmar buzzer beater... doesn't mean the Lakers are better when Kobe is taking less shots.

Anyway like Stu LAntz said, Kobe is the best decoy in the game... he's still having an impact whether it's 10 or 30 shots.

thanks for having kobe rest on defense. marion just stood around. made it easy for kobe

[Kori Ellis]

I can't stand seeing 10 Kobe threads a day. This is now the official Kobe thread.

Got Kobe news? post it here

Think Kobe is no better than Devin Brown? post it here

Think Kobe is one step away from God? post it here

[Donkeybong]

I <3 Kobe. I wish my post count stayed permanently at 24.

[DazedAndConfused]

I can't stand seeing 10 Kobe threads a day. This is now the official Kobe thread.

Got Kobe news? post it here

Think Kobe is no better than Devin Brown? post it here

Think Kobe is one step away from God? post it here

Good God it took you long enough :)

[Kori Ellis]

Good God it took you long enough :)

I thought maybe some people would curb their Kobe infatuation, but no luck.

[21_Blessings]

http://www.kobe4rings.com/images/nike-kobe-4-rings-2.jpg

http://www.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nike-kobe-bryant-4-rings-04b.jpg

[21_Blessings]

http://www.7milesdown.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe4rings.jpg

:hat

[rhyputa]

An official sticky thread!
But I don't think it's a good idea, this thread would turn out to be a mess for sure.

I suggest open a sub-forum for Kobe

[BRHornet45]

Kobe is no better than Devin Brown


son I agree

[bostonguy]

exactly ... anyone who truly understands the game of basketball knows that Kobe is nothing more than an over hyped role player. the dude has never accomplished anything on his own. again ...

3 rings = thank you Shaq
1 ring = thank you Gasol
MVP aka Lifetime Achievement Award = thank you media

Son you think Vince Mcmahon had a role in this too?

[BRHornet45]

Son you think Vince Mcmahon had a role in this too?

without a doubt son its all part of the money making script. guys like Kobe, Cena, Lebron, Triple H, etc. all sell a shit load of merchandise for the company.

[024]

i miss the oden thread. how else am i supposed to know how his healing is coming along, what he ate for lunch, and how many high fives he gave his teammates from the bench?

[jag]

I heard Kori did this cause she's an underground Lakers fan.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

much needed thread, now the NBA forum won't be the Kobe forum anymore.

[Spursmania]

:dramaquee

[midnightpulp]

An official sticky thread!
But I don't think it's a good idea, this thread would turn out to be a mess for sure.

I suggest open a sub-forum for Kobe

Role-players don't deserve their own sub-forum.

[The Gemini Method]

much needed thread, now the NBA forum won't be the Kobe forum anymore.

Agreed. Now you won't have to read this or that by the legions of people that are obsessed with Kobe more so than Laker homers.

[murpjf88]

Wow another Kobe thread. You guys are obsessed. Duncan is sitting out and he's not even hurt. What a joke the OP is


Kobe's to proud to take the hint.

[Andrew Bynum]

I hope his back stays all fucked up. It's nice playing with him when he isn't jacking up 40 shots a game.

[hater]

BQbB2VTLshY

[Amaso]

Kobe's to proud to take the hint.

Only on SpursTalk will you see people make fun of someone for playing through injuries.

[Donkeybong]

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef012876c4a7e3970c-pi

Look at this tough mofo.

[Allanon]

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef012876c4a7e3970c-pi

Look at this tough mofo.

Dang, that pinkie's all jacked up. The dude is shooting on 3 fingers :lol

[redzero]

Finally, an official Kobe topic. People here talk about him more than their own teams.

[noob cake]

An official sticky thread!
But I don't think it's a good idea, this thread would turn out to be a mess for sure.

I suggest open a sub-forum for Kobe

I second the motion for a Kobe "Don't Kome Me" Bryant sub forum, where we can have civilized discussions on every aspect of Kobe's professional and personal life without the inference from trolls.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I second the motion for a Kobe "Don't Kome Me" Bryant sub forum, where we can have civilized discussions on every aspect of Kobe's professional and personal life without the inference from trolls.


I don't. One player doesn't deserve his own sub-forum. If people want to talk about Kobe and only Kobe so much they should make their own site Kobetalk.com

[rhyputa]

I don't. One player doesn't deserve his own sub-forum. If people want to talk about Kobe and only Kobe so much they should make their own site Kobetalk.com

Well, ppl here enjoy hating or loving Kobe and they want their heart known, and they enjoy hating each others, everybody knows Lakersground but some just come here for more fun, the fun of debating/persuading :wow

Everything in one thread is no fun at all :rolleyes

[21_Blessings]

I don't. One player doesn't deserve his own sub-forum. If people want to talk about Kobe and only Kobe so much they should make their own site Kobetalk.com

This is pretty hilarious coming from a poster with the forum handle DUNCANownsKOBE.

[HarlemHeat37]

http://i49.tinypic.com/e86ctz.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This is pretty hilarious coming from a poster with the forum handle DUNCANownsKOBE.


It's a stupid name. I wanna get it changed.

[21_Blessings]

http://i49.tinypic.com/e86ctz.jpg

:lol

[ChrisRichards]

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef012876c4a7e3970c-pi

Look at this tough mofo.
Phot shopped, nice try

[iggypop123]

Phot shopped, nice try

look at me. i created the tears:
http://johnjohnsaidit.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/d-wade1.jpg

[21_Blessings]

Kobe Bryant:


http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef012876c4a7e3970c-pi
.

Not Kobe Bryant:

http://www.nba.com/media/wade_300_070227.jpg

[KidCongo]

In the Laker world a Dislocated shoulder = Sprained finger.

[21_Blessings]

In the Laker world a Dislocated shoulder = Sprained finger.

You mean multiple fractured fingers on shooting hand.

My shoulder! Quick, to the WHEEL CHAIR! :rollin

Paul Pierce shares Wade's warrior mentality

http://www.odt.co.nz/files/story/2008/06/pierce.jpg

[WalterSobchak]

You mean multiple fractured fingers on shooting hand.

You mean Avulsion fracture. Translation, a jammed finger. Incredibly common in the game of basketball. And don't forget those back spasms that kept him off the court in the 4th qtr while he and his Lakers were getting they're asses pounded.

What a Warrior. MVP! MVP! MVP!

[iggypop123]

In the Laker world a Dislocated shoulder = Sprained finger.

lebron missed 7 games with a sprained finger.

[Andrew Bynum]

lol Behold The Queen talking shit in a room in Cleveland with the heater on full blast cause it's -45 outside.

[DazedAndConfused]

You mean Avulsion fracture. Translation, a jammed finger. Incredibly common in the game of basketball. And don't forget those back spasms that kept him off the court in the 4th qtr while he and his Lakers were getting they're asses pounded.

What a Warrior. MVP! MVP! MVP!

You do realize that Lebron James missed 6 games because he hurt his pinky finger on his NON SHOOTING HAND right? Duncan sits out back to back games despite being perfectly healthy. I could go on and on.

In today's game, Kobe is as close as it comes to a warrior on the floor.

[I_Speak_4_Dallas_Fan]

Kobe Bryant:

http://www.thesportspod.com/uploads/images/vanessa.jpeg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/529939222_2665d1b471.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/522017175_65c3a5d7e4.jpg

http://www.laballtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/kobe-bleeding-warriors.jpg

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/kobe-bryant-mug-shot.jpg

[fevertrees]

Kobe Bryant:


http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/kobe-bryant-mug-shot.jpg

[Donkeybong]

You mean Avulsion fracture. Translation, a jammed finger. Incredibly common in the game of basketball. And don't forget those back spasms that kept him off the court in the 4th qtr while he and his Lakers were getting they're asses pounded.

What a Warrior. MVP! MVP! MVP!

avulsion fracture is when a tendon rips off a piece of bone. thats not the same as a jammed finger, you nub.

[fevertrees]

http://blackcelebritykids.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/kobefammvp1.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

Why is Kobe's son wearing that on his head?..

[fevertrees]

Why is Kobe's son wearing that on his head?..

That's a boy? :wow

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Kobe doesn't have a son, he has 2 daughters. Scary to think if he had a son, what kind of a ball player he could turn out to be. However, maybe not. Most NBA offspring don't overshadow their dad's as Kobe has....Still, Kobe is a great player, but I don't see why fans are so obsessed with him. Love him or hate him, I think the feuders fuel each other.

[Muser]

In today's game, Kobe is as close as it comes to a warrior on the floor.

Kobe is Carl Landry?

[ChrisRichards]

Why is Kobe's son wearing that on his head?..
:rollin:rollin:rollin

Kobe doesn't have a son, he has 2 daughters. Scary to think if he had a son, what kind of a ball player he could turn out to be.
Jordans sons turns out to be scrubs.

[TheManFromAcme]

Why is Kobe's son wearing that on his head?..


That's cold.....but funny.:lol

[21_Blessings]

That's cold.....but funny.:lol

Isn't Harlem Heat married? Maybe he should post a pic of his darkspawn and we can tell him how ugly it is.

[z0sa]

darkspawn?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/thumb/8/89/Creature-Hurlock.jpg/180px-Creature-Hurlock.jpg

[TheMime]

...

[iggypop123]

...

:lol

[WalterSobchak]

avulsion fracture is when a tendon rips off a piece of bone. thats not the same as a jammed finger, you nub.

http://www.menshealth.com/sportsinjuries/jammed_finger.html


http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/kobe-bryant-avulsion-fracture-finger-video/12292


Your out of your fucking element DonkeyDong. Avulsion fractures are caused by what class?????? A jammed finger. Kobe must be the only player in the NBA who gets the media attention over a jammed finger.

And lets not talk about his back spasms. "Whaaa, I'm to sore to stay in this game for another Qtr while the Spurs are pounding me & my team right in the ass. Whaa." But somehow, he manages to man up and stay on the floor while his Lakers pretty much lead the entire game against the Mavs.

Wow. What a Warrior. MVP! MVP! MVP! :rolleyes

[WalterSobchak]

You do realize that Lebron James missed 6 games because he hurt his pinky finger on his NON SHOOTING HAND right? Duncan sits out back to back games despite being perfectly healthy. I could go on and on.

In today's game, Kobe is as close as it comes to a warrior on the floor.

You do realize that this is a Kobe Bryant thread right? Not a Lebron or Duncan thread. But i'll play along.

Since I don't pay much attention to the Eastern Conference, I will not comment on Lebron's pinky injury. As far as Duncan sitting out on a back to back. That's awesome. It's nice to know that the Spurs have enough Depth to keep him out of back to back games when needed. Great move by Pop. At least Pop has the set to bench his best player when he feels like it.

Kobe is a warrior to his fans only. And thats because he makes damn sure we ALL know he hurts somewhere. Ladi-fucking-da. I guarantee he doesn't hurt worse than the next nameless player in the league. But yet Kobe and the media needs to let everyone know EVERY fucking game that he is playing through pain. :rolleyes He aint no Warrior. He's a fucking Nihilist.

[djohn2oo8]

You mean multiple fractured fingers on shooting hand.

My shoulder! Quick, to the WHEEL CHAIR! :rollin

Paul Pierce shares Wade's warrior mentality

http://www.odt.co.nz/files/story/2008/06/pierce.jpg

Pierce had to deal with a shitty team longer than Kobe had to. Yet Pierce still played his ass off even though the Celtics were going nowhere during that time. Meanwhile, Kobe quit twice in the playoffs. And there is a reason he got clothesline by Raja Bell.

[Bukefal]

Why is this thread important? :lol

[Bukefal]

In the Laker world a Dislocated shoulder = Sprained finger.

:lol


Why is Kobe's son wearing that on his head?..

:rollin

[Allanon]

Why is this thread important? :lol

It's stickied for easy reference when Kobe gets #5 later this year and #6 next year to tie.

Even the mods realize the reality of Kobe's historical run for GOAT.

[midnightpulp]

It's stickied for easy reference when Kobe gets #5 later this year and #6 next year to tie.

Even the mods realize the reality of Kobe's historical run for GOAT.

3 titles as the team leader puts him in the same category as Bird. Even if he accomplishes that, he'll still be behind Duncan and Magic in that regard.

But I'm sure ESPN, which no doubt you accept as Gospel, will "seriously" consider putting him on equal footing with Jordan.

[midnightpulp]

You all have already put Kobe ahead of Jordan without even realizing it, yes you! Kobe is the only superstar in the history of the game where fans feel that he does not deserve credit for winning titles if he has good players playing with him. Bird, Magic, Bill, Duncan, and MJ never dealt with this handicap. So, in other words according to you all, Kobe is so GREAT that he should not deserve credit for leading a team to titles if he has any players that are all-stars. You all made up this criteria, not Laker fans. We Laker fans are well aware that the go-to guy on every team is the most important player on that team. Kobe has been that on our team since the air balls in Utah. Not Shaq, not Pau.

I give Kobe full credit for last year's win. He was the clear leader on the team last year. During the 3 peat? Not so much.

In the 00 playoffs: Team leaders and the most important player on the team don't shoot 44% from the field, averaging a shade under 20 game and then craps themselves in the Finals shooting something like 35% while the supposed second fiddle averages 31 and 15. Yep, Kobe was the "go-to guy".

01: 29, 7, 6 on 47%. Arguably Kobe's best playoff line ever. But Shaq still takes a shit on it, averaging 30 and 15. Kobe once again shriveled in the Finals shooting around 40% while Shaq destroyed that series to tune of something like 35 and 17, almost recording a quad double. Oh, but Kobe can hit a clutch shot and free-throws (something any good wing is capable of).

02: Do I really need to go on? Kobe shoots 43% in his playoff campaign while Shaq puts monster numbers once again.

There's no arbitrary criteria. It's just simple logic. Kobe was not the leader, best player, or as equally as important as Shaq in those days. The stats, opinions of "experts," and facts don't support that.

If there's any arbitrary criteria, it was created by the media hype machine and his idiot homer fans for giving Kobe leniency where accomplishments are concerned. No other consensus top ten player who has played in the modern age has only one Final's MVP, but Kobe's allowed in and even vaulted above those who have done more than him as a leader by his moron fans and certain sectors of the media. I'm sure idiots like your hero Mark Jackson would place Kobe above Olajuwon and maybe even Larry Bird and Tim Duncan. No doubt his fans do.

And on the same token, Lebron is receiving similar hype treatment. The difference is his fans aren't (for the most part) drooling sheep and are capable of thinking beyond highlights and sound bites.

Cleveland fans, for the dismal history they've had to endure, are infinitely more knowledgeable and appreciative of the game than your average Laker fan.

[cobbler]

3 titles as the team leader puts him in the same category as Bird. Even if he accomplishes that, he'll still be behind Duncan and Magic in that regard.

But I'm sure ESPN, which no doubt you accept as Gospel, will "seriously" consider putting him on equal footing with Jordan.

And then using your logic... nobody, not even Jordan, much less Magic, TD, or Bird can be considered the GOAT since clearly his 6 titles dont even scratch the surface of Bill's 11 as the apha dog on his team.

[midnightpulp]

And then using your logic... nobody, not even Jordan, much less Magic, TD, or Bird can be considered the GOAT since clearly his 6 titles dont even scratch the surface of Bill's 11 as the apha dog on his team.

Some do have Russell as the GOAT. In his era, Russell was just as dominant as anyone to play the game. The best passing and defensive big man of all time. He played within the team concept and didn't have a gaudy PPG, things that don't get much respect from modern fans weaned on Sportscenter.

Jordan is somewhat overrated as the GOAT anyhow. Good arguments can made for Kareem and Russell.

[cobbler]

I give Kobe full credit for last year's win. He was the clear leader on the team last year. During the 3 peat? Not so much.

In the 00 playoffs: Team leaders and the most important player on the team don't shoot 44% from the field, averaging a shade under 20 game and then craps themselves in the Finals shooting something like 35% while the supposed second fiddle averages 31 and 15. Yep, Kobe was the "go-to guy".

01: 29, 7, 6 on 47%. Arguably Kobe's best playoff line ever. But Shaq still takes a shit on it, averaging 30 and 15. Kobe once again shriveled in the Finals shooting around 40% while Shaq destroyed that series to tune of something like 35 and 17, almost recording a quad double. Oh, but Kobe can hit a clutch shot and free-throws (something any good wing is capable of).

02: Do I really need to go on? Kobe shoots 43% in his playoff campaign while Shaq puts monster numbers once again.

There's no arbitrary criteria. It's just simple logic. Kobe was not the leader, best player, or as equally as important as Shaq in those days. The stats, opinions of "experts," and facts don't support that.

If there's any arbitrary criteria, it was created by the media hype machine and his idiot homer fans for giving Kobe leniency where accomplishments are concerned. No other consensus top ten player who has played in the modern age has only one Final's MVP, but Kobe's allowed in and even vaulted above those who have done more than him as a leader by his moron fans and certain sectors of the media. I'm sure idiots like your hero Mark Jackson would place Kobe above Olajuwon and maybe even Larry Bird and Tim Duncan. No doubt his fans do.

And on the same token, Lebron is receiving similar hype treatment. The difference is his fans aren't (for the most part) drooling sheep and are capable of thinking beyond highlights and sound bites.

Cleveland fans, for the dismal history they've had to endure, are infinitely more knowledgeable and appreciative of the game than your average Laker fan.

Classic! The opinions of the media and the "experts" matter when they vote for MVP's and those stats are used as criteria to bash Kobe and diminish his accomplishments. But when the very same people state that Kobe is "the guy" or that he's in the conversation for GOAT they are swept under the rug as hyperbole in some conspiricy to vault Kobe to some unworthy status.

Absolutely classic! :toast

[cobbler]

Some do have Russell as the GOAT. In his era, Russell was just as dominant as anyone to play the game. The best passing and defensive big man of all time. He played within the team concept and didn't have a gaudy PPG, things that don't get much respect from modern fans weaned on Sportscenter.

Jordan is somewhat overrated as the GOAT anyhow. Good arguments can made for Kareem and Russell.

I personally have Wilt and Oscar as 1 & 2. WIth that said, it's impossible to compare eras.

Especially if one of the eras isn't over yet.

[midnightpulp]

Classic! The opinions of the media and the "experts" matter when they vote for MVP's and those stats are used as criteria to bash Kobe and diminish his accomplishments. But when the very same people state that Kobe is "the guy" or that he's in the conversation for GOAT they are swept under the rug as hyperbole in some conspiricy to vault Kobe to some unworthy status.

Absolutely classic! :toast

Why do you think I quoted "experts?" To imply that their opinions are suspect at best given the fact that their promotion agenda is more important than actually provided thoughtful basketball analysis.

And not one "expert" that I know of has ever suggested Kobe is anywhere near the GOAT.

But when we look at cold hard stats and the games themselves, it was very clear who the best player on the 3 peat Lakers was. No "expert" needed.

Why do you Laker fans see it as such a threat when people refuse to regard those 3 titles that Kobe won alongside Shaq on the same level as titles Bird, Duncan, Shaq, or Magic, or even Kobe won playing as the team leader (when people say Gasol is the best player, they're just trolling. Trust me on that)?

[ezau]

Duncan is the GOAT

[djohn2oo8]

Kobe was the main man on those teams, just like Magic was the main main on the Lakers, but he allowed Shaq to shine just to keep him happy, just as Magic allowed Kareem to shine to keep him happy. Spurfan invented this Kobe sidekick shit to reduce Kobe's role as a player thinking it would elevate Duncans career. Who's laughing now? Kobe will surpass MJ in just about every stat that matters. He has already eclipsed Shaq and Duncan for player of the decade... as a second fiddle...:lol:rolleyes

We saw what Kobe did as the main man from 05-07

[midnightpulp]

Kobe was the main man on those teams, just like Magic was the main main on the Lakers, but he allowed Shaq to shine just to keep him happy, just as Magic allowed Kareem to shine to keep him happy. Spurfan invented this Kobe sidekick shit to reduce Kobe's role as a player thinking it would elevate Duncans career. Who's laughing now? Kobe will surpass MJ in just about every stat that matters. He has already eclipsed Shaq and Duncan for player of the decade... as a second fiddle...:lol:rolleyes

Sure he was.

Sporting News didn't honor Kobe with player of the decade.
Nor did Sports Illustrated.

Only your gospel ESPN, specifically Mark Stein, honored Kobe with that (Hollinger went with Duncan). He even stated it wasn't necessarily for on the court performances but for media impact.

Players of the Decade shouldn't make the top ten all-time worst Finals performances as did your hero. Duncan made the all-time best list 4 times. Kobe? Not a one. It was Hollinger, who I know you Laker fans despise since Kobe's PER is never within range of truly great players like Shaq, Jordan, Duncan, and even Lebron.

But if you're going to use these idiot experts to validate your points, so am I.

[midnightpulp]

You see, this is a perfect example of how the majority of Spurs fans don't no shit about anything outside of dusty San Antonio. If I asked you how much does a burrito weighs, you'd get that right, huh? Click on the link, then come back and apologize to the very few people on this board that has a clue.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2009-09-24/sporting-news-nba-athlete-decade-kobe-bryant-sg-lakers

Guess I got mixed up.

But that said you're still a moron who thinks Kobe's dismal shooting percentages and Finals chokejobs during the Shaq years equate to "letting Shaq shine."

I'm actually from SoCal. But nice try. Have you ever been? Or are you just another Lakers fan from Des Moines, Iowa who thought it would be cool to root for the Lakers?

[midnightpulp]

You're more than mixed up. I just pulled your ho-card. Shut it down kid.

Kind of like your inability to define the decade the two best Spurs players played in?

Intellectual lightweights usually focus on errors that aren't really important to the debate. "Oooh. I mistakenly thought the Sporting News..."

Doesn't change the fact that Kobe was a second fiddle during the 3 peat.

[midnightpulp]

I own a condo in Cerritos, so stop with this "I'm actually from So-cal shit." I am LA you coc-sucker. I've reduced you to nothing, so go to bed, before I have the Mexican homies come pay you a visit with all this Laker hating.

When did you move there and where from?

[Sigz]

Becky Hammom > Kobe

25 > 24


You can't deny destiny.

[Allanon]

I give Kobe full credit for last year's win. He was the clear leader on the team last year. During the 3 peat? Not so much.

Shaq = Man in the first 3 Quarters
Kobe = Man in the 4th quarter

Shaq wouldn't have won without Kobe. Kobe wouldn't have won without Shaq. Jordan wouldn't have won without Scottie. Duncan wouldn't have won without Tony.

If Shaq could make his free throws, he can be the main man. But his own shitiness as free throws breaks this argument and puts Kobe in position to earn his "Closer" reputation. What use is a superstar who becomes a liability in the 4th quarter due to his free throw shooting?

You can't use the main man logic to try to take rings away from players. Tony won the Finals MVP, does that mean Duncan should only be credited for 3 rings?

[ChrisRichards]

Gasol gone, Lakers lost to the Clippers.



Gasol back, Lakers beat the Clips by 40 freaking points.



Gasol is the Lakers TRUE MVP


:toast

[DazedAndConfused]

Gasol gone, Lakers lost to the Clippers.



Gasol back, Lakers beat the Clips by 40 freaking points.



Gasol is the Lakers TRUE MVP


:toast

No he's just an extremely important piece of the puzzle. He sets the rotations in order such that there is a quality 7 footer on the floor at all times. It makes a huge difference.

You take Kobe off this team and they struggle to make the playoffs.

[WalterSobchak]

Shaq = Man in the first 3 Quarters
Kobe = Man in the 4th quarter

Shaq wouldn't have won without Kobe. Kobe wouldn't have won without Shaq. Jordan wouldn't have won without Scottie. Duncan wouldn't have won without Tony.

If Shaq could make his free throws, he can be the main man. But his own shitiness as free throws breaks this argument and puts Kobe in position to earn his "Closer" reputation. What use is a superstar who becomes a liability in the 4th quarter due to his free throw shooting?

You can't use the main man logic to try to take rings away from players. Tony won the Finals MVP, does that mean Duncan should only be credited for 3 rings?


You do realize Tony didn't play in 99, right?

[Andrew Bynum]

Kobe with a +41 tonight.

[WalterSobchak]

No he's just an extremely important piece of the puzzle. He sets the rotations in order such that there is a quality 7 footer on the floor at all times. It makes a huge difference.

You take Kobe off this team and they struggle to make the playoffs.


You take Kobe off this team and you have players setting much higher career averages. Bynum might actually be worth a shit if Kobe wasn't there.

[Andrew Bynum]

I am worth a shit, 16 and 9 on 56% shooting playing next to Pau Gasol. Suck it faggot.

[rhyputa]

Becky Hammom > Kobe

25 > 24


You can't deny destiny.

You mean nipples? :hat

[Allanon]

You do realize Tony didn't play in 99, right?

I'm sorry, I forgot about him.

Corrected: Tim Duncan couldn't win without The Admiral or Tony or Manu. Maybe all 4 of his rings should be re-evaluated instead of just 1 :lol

And from what I recall, there was an asterisk * put on the 1999 season. Should that Ring even be counted?

[WalterSobchak]

I'm sorry, I forgot about him.

Corrected: Tim Duncan couldn't win without The Admiral or Tony or Manu. Maybe all 4 of his rings should be re-evaluated instead of just 1 :lol

And from what I recall, there was an asterisk * put on the 1999 season.

And quite simply, Kobe couldn't win without an All Star big. Look again, no asterik. Only Lakers fans believe in that asterik shit. :toast

[Allanon]

And quite simply, Kobe couldn't win without an All Star big.

And Jordan couldn't win without a Top 50 player of all time.

And Duncan won in 1999 and 2003 with a HoF Big Man

And Shaq won with an All Star Wade

Basketball is a team game; of course 1 guy can't do it alone. It's ridiculous to try and take away achievements because there were other good players on the team.

Why should Kobe lose credit for 3 rings? Should Duncan lose credit for 1 ring thanks to Tony Parker? How about losing 1 ring because he had HoF'er David Robinson?

All very ridiculous.

[midnightpulp]

Shaq = Man in the first 3 Quarters
Kobe = Man in the 4th quarter

Shaq wouldn't have won without Kobe. Kobe wouldn't have won without Shaq. Jordan wouldn't have won without Scottie. Duncan wouldn't have won without Tony.

If Shaq could make his free throws, he can be the main man. But his own shitiness as free throws breaks this argument and puts Kobe in position to earn his "Closer" reputation. What use is a superstar who becomes a liability in the 4th quarter due to his free throw shooting?

You can't use the main man logic to try to take rings away from players. Tony won the Finals MVP, does that mean Duncan should only be credited for 3 rings?

You're right. It's a team game and every player has a role and an impact. But when trying to figure out who belongs on these "greatest ever lists" we have to try and figure who is more valuable to their team. There's a reason why Bird and not McHale has a place on the top ten list, even though McHale was a vital piece of those teams.

Shaq was irreplaceable during the 3 peat. They don't win 3 titles if there's any other name on the back of that jersey. Kobe was replaceable. Homers are fooling themselves if they think McGrady, Ray Allen, or any other top 5 wing wouldn't be able to produce similar results. Sure Kobe had clutch moments, but those players would've had their moments as well.

Maybe they don't 3 peat with another player besides Bryant in a Laker uniform, but I'd be willing to bet they win at least 2. You don't think Vince Carter would be able to replicate Kobe's 19 a game on 44% during the 00 run? But who in the league is going to for 30-15?

You take Shaq out the equation and replace him with say Chris Webber or Jermaine O'Neal and the Lakers never get a ring.

[DazedAndConfused]

So I guess according to Spur fan the only way Kobe can legitimately win an NBA championship is if his team consists entirely of scrubs.

Great logic guys.

[Donkeybong]

You're right. It's a team game and every player has a role and an impact. But when trying to figure out who belongs on these "greatest ever lists" we have to try and figure who is more valuable to their team. There's a reason why Bird and not McHale has a place on the top ten list, even though McHale was a vital piece of those teams.

Shaq was irreplaceable during the 3 peat. They don't win 3 titles if there's any other name on the back of that jersey. Kobe was replaceable. Homers are fooling themselves if they think McGrady, Ray Allen, or any other top 5 wing wouldn't be able to produce similar results. Sure Kobe had clutch moments, but those players would've had their moments as well.

Maybe they don't 3 peat with another player besides Bryant in a Laker uniform, but I'd be willing to bet they win at least 2. You don't think Vince Carter would be able to replicate Kobe's 19 a game on 44% during the 00 run? But who in the league is going to for 30-15?

You take Shaq out the equation and replace him with say Chris Webber or Jermaine O'Neal and the Lakers never get a ring.

this is the dumbest thing i have ever read on this forum.

[WalterSobchak]

So I guess according to Spur fan the only way Kobe can legitimately win an NBA championship is if his team consists entirely of scrubs.

Great logic guys.

Uh, no. Kobe legitimately won. But as the best role player on the team.

[Allanon]

You're right. It's a team game and every player has a role and an impact. But when trying to figure out who belongs on these "greatest ever lists" we have to try and figure who is more valuable to their team. There's a reason why Bird and not McHale has a place on the top ten list, even though McHale was a vital piece of those teams.

Shaq was irreplaceable during the 3 peat. They don't win 3 titles if there's any other name on the back of that jersey. Kobe was replaceable. Homers are fooling themselves if they think McGrady, Ray Allen, or any other top 5 wing wouldn't be able to produce similar results. Sure Kobe had clutch moments, but those players would've had their moments as well.

Maybe they don't 3 peat with another player besides Bryant in a Laker uniform, but I'd be willing to bet they win at least 2. You don't think Vince Carter would be able to replicate Kobe's 19 a game on 44% during the 00 run? But who in the league is going to for 30-15?

You take Shaq out the equation and replace him with say Chris Webber or Jermaine O'Neal and the Lakers never get a ring.

Shaq was replaceable. You take out Shaq and put in Tim Duncan and Kobe/Tim would have had 10 rings.

[Donkeybong]

Uh, no. Kobe legitimately won. But as the best role player on the team.

role player? he was apart of a 1-2 punch. any person not wearing hater goggles could tell you that.

[WalterSobchak]

role player? he was apart of a 1-2 punch. any person not wearing hater goggles could tell you that.


Kobe was Shaq's "Pippen."

[midnightpulp]

this is the dumbest thing i have ever read on this forum.

Prove me wrong then.

Would 00 Vince Carter or Ray Allen be capable of replicating Kobe's numbers during that year's championship run?

In 01, Kobe wasn't even on the all-NBA First Team, he was on the second team along with Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady. But yet, Kobe was so transcendent, there's was no player within a hair's breadth of him.

In 02, I guess other elite wings wouldn't have been capable of 26 on 43% shooting.

Now we can argue what Kobe brought to the table defensively, or Kobe's role within the triangle, but I still believe the Lakers win at least two with a different elite wing.

You homers remember Kobe's clutch overtime performance against Indiana when Shaq went out, I remember his 30 something percent overall FG in that series. He played 9 min in game 2 with the Lakers winning by 7. He went 8-27 in the closeout game and the Lakers still won by 5.

Yep, irreplaceable.

[DazedAndConfused]

Don't feed the trolls. Shoback clearly has no intention of doing anything other than trying to rile Laker fans up.

[WalterSobchak]

Why would anything I say rile you up? Would I give my left nut to have Kobe on the Spurs when he was wanting to be traded? You bet I would! As long as he knew his role. He would be Duncan's "Pippen."

[midnightpulp]

Shaq was replaceable. You take out Shaq and put in Tim Duncan and Kobe/Tim would have had 10 rings.

I never seen a player have a more dominant three playoff years as Shaq during the 3 peat. I don't think Duncan could replicate what he did if you traded them straight up in those years. Hell even as late as 04, Shaq dominated that Pistons front line that gave Duncan fits.

But who knows?

[Allanon]

I never seen a player have a more dominant three playoff years as Shaq during the 3 peat. I don't think Duncan could replicate what he did if you traded them straight up in those years. Hell even as late as 04, Shaq dominated that Pistons front line that gave Duncan fits.

But who knows?

Shaq was truly unstoppable during those years but I'm a big believer in Tim Duncan.

I'm sure a Duncan/Kobe pairing would have lasted much longer and would have yielded many more rings than ShaqKobe.

Tim Duncan has the right attitude to play with another superstar.

No relationship has lasted for Shaq (Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash) while Timmy would rather conjure up Wizards and shit than argue.

[Donkeybong]

Kobe was Shaq's "Pippen."

pippen wasnt a role player.

[rhyputa]

You take Kobe off this team and you have players setting much higher career averages. Bynum might actually be worth a shit if Kobe wasn't there.

I agree, higer averages from the regular season.

[midnightpulp]

Shaq was truly unstoppable during those years but I'm a big believer in Tim Duncan.

I'm sure a Duncan/Kobe pairing would have lasted much longer and would have yielded many more rings than ShaqKobe.

Tim Duncan has the right attitude to play with another superstar.

No relationship has lasted for Shaq (Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash) while Timmy would rather conjure up Wizards and shit than argue.

Quite probable. Take Kobe off the 01 Lakers and replace him with Tracy McGrady and put Kobe on the 01 Spurs, replacing Derek Anderson. Who wins?

Probably a 7 game series.

[Smooth Criminal]

Prove me wrong then.

Would 00 Vince Carter or Ray Allen be capable of replicating Kobe's numbers during that year's championship run?

In 01, Kobe wasn't even on the all-NBA First Team, he was on the second team along with Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady. But yet, Kobe was so transcendent, there's was no player within a hair's breadth of him.

In 02, I guess other elite wings wouldn't have been capable of 26 on 43% shooting.25 on 47%, but hey who needs facts?

Now we can argue what Kobe brought to the table defensively, or Kobe's role within the triangle, but I still believe the Lakers win at least two with a different elite wing.

You homers remember Kobe's clutch overtime performance against Indiana when Shaq went out, I remember his 30 something percent overall FG in that series. He played 9 min in game 2 with the Lakers winning by 7. He went 8-27 in the closeout game and the Lakers still won by 5.

Yep, irreplaceable.
Left game early with an injury...again who needs facts?

[ChrisRichards]

No he's just an extremely important piece of the puzzle. He sets the rotations in order such that there is a quality 7 footer on the floor at all times. It makes a huge difference.

You take Kobe off this team and they struggle to make the playoffs.
I agree that he's an extremely important piece of the puzzle. I also agree that his value is much more than Kobe.


A big man willing to sacrifice his body on defense and is also a great offensive player and very efficient will always be a better value than a shooting guard who shoots 47% and takes 23 shots away.


:king

[midnightpulp]

Left game early with an injury...again who needs facts?

In the 02 playoffs, Kobe averaged 26 a game on .434 shooting.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

And the point I was trying to make about Bryant only playing 9 minutes is that the Lakers were deep enough, primarily because of the dominance of Shaq, to survive that series without Kobe playing like Jordan, something Laker homers attribute to him during the 3 peat years.

Like it or not, Kobe was very replaceable during 00. He definitely had a greater impact in the next two years but I still believe you could replace him T-Mac, Carter, or Ray Allen and achieve similar success. Granted he was better than those players from 01-02 but not that much better.

[fevertrees]

http://www.pleasantmorningbuzz.com/pics/kobe_lebron_openinggames.gif

[DazedAndConfused]

In the 02 playoffs, Kobe averaged 26 a game on .434 shooting.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

And the point I was trying to make about Bryant only playing 9 minutes is that the Lakers were deep enough, primarily because of the dominance of Shaq, to survive that series without Kobe playing like Jordan, something Laker homers attribute to him during the 3 peat years.

Like it or not, Kobe was very replaceable during 00. He definitely had a greater impact in the next two years but I still believe you could replace him T-Mac, Carter, or Ray Allen and achieve similar success. Granted he was better than those players from 01-02 but not that much better.

Clearly you haven't WATCHED any of the playoff series from '00-02 when the Lakers went on their 3-peat. I suggest you revisit the 2000 NBA Finals as well as all of the series played against the Spurs. Let me know if you still think Kobe was replaceable.

Stats don't always tell the whole story. You know that. What Kobe brings to the table cannot possibly be measured entirely by his stats.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe was the MVP of the of 'real' NBA finals in 2001. He tore off San Antonio's head and took a massive shit down their neck.

[WalterSobchak]

Kobe was the MVP of the of 'real' NBA finals in 2001. He tore off San Antonio's head and took a massive shit down their neck.


And yet without Shaq, he wouldn't have won shit those first 3 years of the decade. :toast

[21_Blessings]

And yet without Shaq, he wouldn't have won shit those first 3 years of the decade. :toast

And yet without Kobe, Shaq wouldn't have won shit those first 3 years of the decade :toast

[Smooth Criminal]

Gasol gone, Lakers lost to the Clippers.Lazy game, happened all last year even with Gasol



Gasol back, Lakers beat the Clips by 40 freaking points.

Revenge game for them being lazy, Lakers would have won regardless of Gasol playing

Gasol is the Lakers TRUE MVP


:toast

[noob cake]

Kome is indeed the greatest second option ever, ahead of Pippin for sure.

[daslicer]

Kobe was the MVP of the of 'real' NBA finals in 2001. He tore off San Antonio's head and took a massive shit down their neck.

I agree with you on that he really gave it the spurs all world defenders Terry Porter, Antonio Daniels, Steve Kerr. I'm sure Vince Carter, Tmac would have had the same success against those guys.

[Allanon]

Kobe can add to his legacy by winning the championship in June with no All Stars on his team.

[Muser]

I thought Bynum was a sure lock to be in the all star game?

[Allanon]

I thought Bynum was a sure lock to be in the all star game?

Too lazy to get into the All Star game.

Looks like none of the Lakers are making it to the All Star game except for Kobe.

[21_Blessings]

I thought Bynum was a sure lock to be in the all star game?

Blame Amare.

[djohn2oo8]

Too lazy to get into the All Star game.

Looks like none of the Lakers are making it to the All Star game except for Kobe.

Kobe does not win without Gasol, sorry

[mystargtr34]

Too lazy to get into the All Star game.

Looks like none of the Lakers are making it to the All Star game except for Kobe.

Do you still think 2003 8 point, 6 rebound D-Rob was better than 2008 Gasol?

[Allanon]

Kobe does not win without Gasol, sorry

And Jordan doesn't win without Pippen, etc, etc.

But it would be interesting when Kobe wins the championship with no All Stars this year.

[Allanon]

Do you still think 2003 8 point, 6 rebound D-Rob was better than 2008 Gasol?

Not regular season. But regular season is just a footnote to the championship.

13 point 17 rebound DRob to win the Championship was pretty amazing .

[mystargtr34]

Not regular season. But regular season is just a footnote to the championship.

13 point 17 rebound DRob to win the Championship was pretty amazing .

So your saying... playoff Robinson was better than playoff Gasol?

Or Game 6 Finals Robinson was better than Game 5 Finals Pau Gasol?

[fevertrees]

Could Kobe turn the Clippers into a legit threat if he switched teams in LA?

[ChrisRichards]

Kome is indeed the greatest second option ever, ahead of Pippin for sure.
Pippin was a third or 4th option, sam was the second option to frodo

http://www.lordoftherings.net/media/desktops/fellowship_pippin_800.jpg

[Allanon]

So your saying... playoff Robinson was better than playoff Gasol?

Or Game 6 Finals Robinson was better than Game 5 Finals Pau Gasol?

I'm actually saying that David Robinson is a Hall of Famer and Pau can't even get an All Star this year.

Heck Pau can't even get voted in as an All Star and has to get a pick from the coaches while Drob was a 10 time All Star...no comparison really :lol

[21_Blessings]

Robinson was a franchise center. Couldn't hold Hakeem's jock. But he was pretty amazing for a nice stretch there in the 90s.

[duncan228]

Kobe Bryant's Dad Sued -- Sparks Are Flying (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/17/kobe-bryant-dad-joe-jellybean-sparks-lawsuit/#ixzz0cqg40xok)
TMZ Staff

The time Kobe Bryant's father spent in the WNBA is proving to be more costly than he thought -- he's accused of stiffing the lawyers who repped him when he got fired from coaching the L.A. Sparks.

TMZ obtained a lawsuit filed in L.A. County Superior Court -- in which the Russ August & Kabat law firm claim Joe "Jellybean" Bryant never forked over the $76,520.78 he owes for the work the firm did during Jellybean's "dispute with the Los Angeles Sparks" back in 2007.

The law firm is suing for the cash -- plus interest.

Meanwhile, Jellybean's kid makes roughly $259,000 per game -- probably enough to spare a loan.

[Allanon]

Kobe Bryant's Dad Sued -- Sparks Are Flying (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/17/kobe-bryant-dad-joe-jellybean-sparks-lawsuit/#ixzz0cqg40xok)
TMZ Staff

The time Kobe Bryant's father spent in the WNBA is proving to be more costly than he thought -- he's accused of stiffing the lawyers who repped him when he got fired from coaching the L.A. Sparks.

TMZ obtained a lawsuit filed in L.A. County Superior Court -- in which the Russ August & Kabat law firm claim Joe "Jellybean" Bryant never forked over the $76,520.78 he owes for the work the firm did during Jellybean's "dispute with the Los Angeles Sparks" back in 2007.

The law firm is suing for the cash -- plus interest.

Meanwhile, Jellybean's kid makes roughly $259,000 per game -- probably enough to spare a loan.

Kobe's dad coached the Sparks? I, didn't even know that.

[duncan228]

Kobe's dad coached the Sparks? I, didn't even know that.

I didn't either, I had to look it up.

Wikipedia:


On August 22, 2005, Bryant, who had been serving as the assistant coach to the Los Angeles Sparks team in the Women's National Basketball Association, was named Head Coach of the Sparks, succeeding previous coach (and former 76ers teammate) Henry Bibby. During the 2006 season, he led the Sparks to a 25-9 record and a Conference Finals berth. However, in April 2007, Bryant was replaced as Sparks head coach by Michael Cooper, who had previously helmed the team in 1999-2004.

[noob cake]

I didn't either, I had to look it up.

Wikipedia:

Like father, like son, always trying to take advantage of them women folks.

[Allanon]

Pau (#2 player on the Lakers) has been out for practically half the season and Kobe still has the #1 record in the NBA.

Looks like Kobe s locking down another MVP season and a legendary run at a championship with no All Stars on his team.

[iggypop123]

Pau (#2 player on the Lakers) has been out for practically half the season and Kobe still has the #1 record in the NBA.

Looks like Kobe s locking down another MVP season and a legendary run at a championship with no All Stars on his team.

:lmao. the media has already awarded lord james the mvp. only shot kobe has if they win 70

[BadOdor]

Pau (#2 player on the Lakers) has been out for practically half the season and Kobe still has the #1 record in the NBA.

Looks like Kobe s locking down another MVP season and a legendary run at a championship with no All Stars on his team.

except he had one of the easiest schedules so far. And there's that national television ownage by lebron..... and the fact lebron is just plain playing better.... but other than that, I agree.

[Allanon]

except he had one of the easiest schedules so far. And there's that national television ownage by lebron..... and the fact lebron is just plain playing better.... but other than that, I agree.

The reverse side of the home schedule is that the Lakers have had one of the hardest opponent schedules so far.

LeBron's had no health issues on his team, yet still trail Kobe's injury plagued Lakers. The Cavs have also had trouble closing out games, I believe they've won 1 or 2 close game this year while losing all the rest.

As for the television ownage, LeBron has his coming this Thursday.

[BadOdor]

The reverse side of the home schedule is that the Lakers have had one of the hardest opponent schedules so far.

LeBron's had no health issues on his team, yet still trail Kobe's injury plagued Lakers. The Cavs have also had trouble closing out games, I believe they've won 1 or 2 close game this year while losing all the rest.

As for the television ownage, LeBron has his coming this Thursday.

I will be the happiest guy on earth if the lakers manage to beat the cavs on Thursday. But if that doesn't happen, laker fan better be ready to finally admit that lebron is simply the better player.

[21_Blessings]

Oh it's January and not June you say?

[BadOdor]

Oh it's January and not June you say?

Lebron will be better whether it's January, June, or next year. Or maybe you want to tell me that if you switched kobe with lebron last year the lakers woulden't have won a championship?

[ChrisRichards]

Lebron will be better whether it's January, June, or next year. Or maybe you want to tell me that if you switched kobe with lebron last year the lakers woulden't have won a championship?
I reckon if you replace Kobe even with Durant, Brandon Roy and Paul Pierce, Lakers would still win a title.

[Donkeybong]

maybe lebron, but not the rest

[Donkeybong]

I will be the happiest guy on earth if the lakers manage to beat the cavs on Thursday. But if that doesn't happen, laker fan better be ready to finally admit that lebron is simply the better player.

Win or lose, kobe is still the better player.

[duncan228]

Lakers give Kobe reason to stay (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aog7YuexLlFbJtxBfbhQCqW8vLYF?slug=mc-kobelakers011810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
By Marc J. Spears

There are a lot of perks that come with playing for the Los Angeles Lakers: the Southern California sunshine fills most days (current week excepted); the Pacific Ocean is a short drive from the team’s practice facility; and Jack Nicholson, Denzel Washington and the rest of the who’s-who crowd of Hollywood fill the Staples Center courtside seats. And then there are the Lakers themselves – from George Mikan to Wilt Chamberlain, from Jerry West to Magic Johnson, from Kareem to Shaq, the franchise has long ranked among the most storied in all of sports.

Kobe Bryant knows this. He also knows he now plays alongside a power forward who ranks among the league’s best, a 22-year-old center with the potential to become one of the game’s top big men, a bruising stopper who relieves some of the nightly defensive duties from his own shoulders and another long, versatile forward who can be a matchup terror for opponents. His coach has won more NBA titles than any coach ever.

So ask Kobe to compare his situation to that of LeBron James or Dwyane Wade or any other NBA star, and he’ll simply grin as if you’ve discovered his personal little secret. Yes, these days, even in spite of his numerous injuries, in spite of the Lakers’ inconsistency, Kobe has it good.

“I’m set up to have a good run here,” Bryant said. “I’ve been very fortunate. I went through seven years of hell. Management decided that it was time to spend the money to bring in the players here.”

Bryant’s “seven years” reference is a bit of a stretch; the Lakers went five seasons without winning a championship before last year’s title. But his point is clear: A little more than two years ago, he was ready to move on. After complaining about the team’s lack of talent, Bryant asked the Lakers to trade him. Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak instead set about assembling a better roster around his star, culminating with the trade that brought Pau Gasol to L.A.

The Lakers recently signed Gasol to a three-year extension that will keep him under contract through the 2013-14 season. Ron Artest’s contract runs the same length, provided he doesn’t opt out a season early, and the deals of Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom can last through 2012-13. The Lakers have a solid core which should contend for championships over the next few years.

The only piece missing is Kobe himself.

Bryant can opt out his contract at the end of the season, and though he announced during the summer his intention to sign an extension with the Lakers, he has yet to do so. Is there a chance he’ll now join LeBron, D-Wade and Chris Bosh in this summer’s heralded free-agent class?

Not likely. Though neither the Lakers or Bryant or his agent, Rob Pelinka, would comment on negotiations, all indications are Kobe could have his extension signed by the All-Star break, provided a few issues are resolved.

Bryant knows no other franchise could give him the type of supporting cast he has in L.A. The biggest question going forward is whether Phil Jackson will return after this season to continue coaching them.

“It set us up nicely,” Bryant said. “Everyone is pretty much locked in. Now, it’s a matter of just staying focused and staying the course.”

The Lakers have weathered a few bumps of late, not to mention the various finger and elbow injuries Bryant has suffered, which have affected his shot. But regardless of whether they win or lose Monday’s NBA Finals reunion with the Orlando Magic, the Lakers will still reach the midpoint of their schedule with the league’s best record. If they can keep their core players healthy – and, so far, that’s been a tenuous if – then another title seems well within their grasp.

While it’s uncertain what James, Wade, Bosh – and possibly Amar’e Stoudemire and Dirk Nowitzki – will do this upcoming summer in free agency, the Lakers still figure to be sitting pretty next season. It’s not much of a stretch to envision them winning another couple titles by the middle of the decade to match the Boston Celtics’ record 17.

“We do feel like the team can compete for a championship for the foreseeable future,” Kupchak said. “There is no guarantee that we get to the Finals. You [also] need … luck and health. But we’re hoping with this group that we can contend for the Finals.”

The next step is getting Bryant’s signature on a contract extension.

“It sends a positive [message] for him to re-sign with the team and continue to build on the group that we have,” Gasol said. “The window is pretty big. We have to make sure we take advantage of it. The organization is doing what it needs to keep the main pieces together, so we have a chance to win championships for a few years. How many years remains to be seen, but we’ve given ourselves a chance.”

Said Odom: “Kobe sets his goals really high. Hopefully, he has the confidence in us and his teammates around him to achieve those goals.”

With four NBA titles in hand, Bryant is now one away from tying Magic. And if he passes Magic? He could stake a claim to being the greatest Laker of all time.

“His legacy will always be there no matter what happens,” Shaquille O’Neal said. “If I was [naming] the top 10 Lakers, he’s up there. He’s probably the most exciting Laker, probably next to Magic.”

Said Bryant: “Just to be mentioned in the same breath … you’re talking about the greatest Lakers that ever played. I’m happy with that. … But it would be nice to have as many rings as Magic though.”

Bryant is focused on the here and now, but he also can see far enough into the future to know he has a good thing going.

Laker for life?

It has a nice ring to it.

[BadOdor]

I reckon if you replace Kobe even with Durant, Brandon Roy and Paul Pierce, Lakers would still win a title.

Son, calm your pizza-heating ass down. Just because I agree that lebron>kobe doesn't mean I'm gonna join your obsessed ass on hating on kobe. He is still the number #2 player in the world and is a class above the ones you mentioned.

[namlook]

Washington Post Article:

Kobe Bryant is the best finisher in the NBA. Ever

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/17/AR2010011702265.html?hpid=topnews

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ linking a Washington Post article by some random guy, as if it means anything..

The numbers don't lie, Kobe isn't even close to being the best finisher of all-time..he's not even the best finisher in the NBA right now, the numbers don't lie..

[iggypop123]

LOL @ linking a Washington Post article by some random guy, as if it means anything..

The numbers don't lie, Kobe isn't even close to being the best finisher of all-time..he's not even the best finisher in the NBA right now, the numbers don't lie..

he cant see your response

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm just going by the stats, I can't disagree with them if they're facts..how can I?..

[iggypop123]

I'm just going by the stats, I can't disagree with them if they're facts..how can I?..

i wish you were the spurs gm

[ChrisRichards]

Son, calm your pizza-heating ass down. Just because I agree that lebron>kobe doesn't mean I'm gonna join your obsessed ass on hating on kobe. He is still the number #2 player in the world and is a class above the ones you mentioned.
nope. paul pierce is a champion, i have a reason to beilieve he can lead a talented team like the lakers


brandon roy is on kobe;s level. same with durant.


joe johnson is one of the best shooting guard in the league, without him the hawks will miss the playoffs

[noob cake]

I request that this thread be UNSTICKIED, this kome thread gets bumped every other minute anyways

[Allanon]

This is a helluva alot better than 10 new Kobe threads a day.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This is a helluva alot better than 10 new Kobe threads a day.

[iggypop123]

This is a helluva alot better than 10 new Kobe threads a day.

[rhyputa]

This is a helluva alot better than 10 new Kobe threads a day.

[Allanon]

:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lmao

[j.dizzle]

LOL at the hate a man with a broken index finger gets..I dont really like the 18-20 shots but ill take the 7 assists..Just having kobe on the floor opens up the game for everyone else..BTW the Lakers are like 30-0 in games in which they have any sort of lead in the 4th quarter. Gotta love that

[DAF86]

So is Kobe gonna get better at some point of this season or is he going to keep stinking up the court every time he plays?

[Allanon]

Even in shitty games, Kobe still shows greatness.

Just like that game winner he had in Dallas...Kobe does whatever it takes to win games and owns the NBA's best record even with the Lakers 2nd best player missing almost half the season.

[stretch]

Kobe is definitely the best finisher in the game today. All-time? its hard to say hes ahead of Jordan, but hes definitely one of the top 5, top 3 all-time as well.

and saying that stuff about their 2nd best player missing... lets be honest, pau and bynum perfectly replace each others missing stats when the other is out, and neither are as dominant when the other is playing. they dont end up missing near as much as you suggest when pau or bynum is out, because of the way they cover up for each other with the increased opportunity. if i were phil, i would try to convince one of them to come off the bench for the other, and start odom. if they could pull that off, i think the lakers would be a MUCH scarier team.

[BRHornet45]

sons it is hilarious watching ESPN highlights and hearing the same excuses every night.

"Kobe shot only 3 of 15 by the 3rd quarter, but oh man you know his back is killing him!"
"oh and don't forget about his finger still being wrapped up!"

[HarlemHeat37]

So what's the argument to dismiss Kobe's pedestrian clutch statistics?..I can live with people saying he's a top 5 all-time finisher, I just want to know what their reasoning is..quantity>efficiency, pretty much?..

[Allanon]

So what's the argument to dismiss Kobe's pedestrian clutch statistics?..I can live with people saying he's a top 5 all-time finisher, I just want to know what their reasoning is..quantity>efficiency, pretty much?..

Yes. Many players go their entire NBA career without even hitting 1 game winner.

I think Bird with 35 or so is the only player ahead of Kobe's ~30 (either 29 or 30 not sure which one).

Bird 35 or 36?
Kobe ~30
Jordan 25
LeBron 17

It's hard to deny Kobe, Bird and Michael are the top 3 clutch performers of all time.

[stretch]

Bird 35 or 36?
Kobe ~30
Jordan 25
LeBron 17


just a little curious... why did you put lebron on that list? is he really 4th all-time already with game winners or something?

and really, you can't go wrong with any of the three of Bird, Jordan, or Kobe in crunch time. it would depend on situations though.

if you need 3s in crunch time, im taking Bird.

if you need a single shot from anywhere on the court, you can't go wrong with Kobe.

if you need someone to lead a comeback or to fend off an opposing team making a run through a 2 minute stretch (which is what i think most defines a clutch player, not game winning shots, because even a mediocre player like Rober Horry has hit a bunch of those), im taking Jordan.

but like i said, you cant really go wrong with any of them in crunchtime, single shot or a period of time.

[Allanon]

just a little curious... why did you put lebron on that list? is he really 4th all-time already with game winners or something?

and really, you can't go wrong with any of the three of Bird, Jordan, or Kobe in crunch time. it would depend on situations though.

if you need 3s in crunch time, im taking Bird.

if you need a single shot from anywhere on the court, you can't go wrong with Kobe.

if you need someone to lead a comeback or to fend off an opposing team making a run through a 2 minute stretch (which is what i think most defines a clutch player, not game winning shots, because even a mediocre player like Rober Horry has hit a bunch of those), im taking Jordan.

but like i said, you cant really go wrong with any of them in crunchtime, single shot or a period of time.

Nah, LeBron is not #4, he's just on the list because he's an active player with statistical clutch #'s that don't necessarily translate into wins.

As far as all the Kobe love, just keepin' up with the haters.

Can't go wrong with Bird or Jordan in the Clutch.

[stretch]

Nah, LeBron is not #4, he's just on the list because he's an active player with statistical clutch #'s that don't necessarily translate into wins.

As far as all the Kobe love, just keepin' up with the haters.

Can't go wrong with Bird or Jordan in the Clutch.

rofl at your typical lebron hate

i wonder where dirk is on that list of game winners. i know he has to have quite a few. aside from kobe, i cant think of anyone i would really flat out take over dirk if i need some clutch shots.

[Allanon]

rofl at your typical lebron hate

i wonder where dirk is on that list of game winners. i know he has to have quite a few. aside from kobe, i cant think of anyone i would really flat out take over dirk if i need some clutch shots.

I don't know about all time but Dirk's tied with Kobe at 3 game winners this year.

LeBron's had 1 game winner in I believe 5 tries this year.

[WalterSobchak]

As far as a single shot to win the game is concerned....No question, Larry Bird. Not only will he nail that shot, he also tells the defender guarding him where on the court he's gonna shoot it on him. Cold blooded.

As far as taking over the 4th qtr and willing his team to win. Jordan. Nobody did it better. Ever.

[Allanon]

5 Minutes left in the game - Jordan
1 minute left in the game - Bird
10 seconds left in the game - Kobe

[stretch]

I don't know about all time but Dirk's tied with Kobe at 3 game winners this year.

LeBron's had 1 game winner in I believe 5 tries this year.

dirk and kobe have really been clutch machines this year. it seems like at least once a week there are highlights on ESPN of a bunch of clutch shots they hit to lead their team to victory. its been unbelievable.

[stretch]

5 Minutes left in the game - Jordan
1 minute left in the game - Jordan
10 seconds left in the game and down by 3 - Bird or Kobe
10 seconds left in the game, and down by 1 or 2 - Kobe or Jordan

fixed

[Allanon]

5 Minutes left in the game - Jordan
1 minute left in the game - Jordan
10 seconds left in the game and down by 3 - Bird or Kobe
10 seconds left in the game, and down by 1 or 2 - Kobe or Jordan

I didn't watch enough of Jordan/Bird to disagree with this.

Fair enough.

[stretch]

i wonder how much longer Kobe is going to last though. i know he takes good care of himself, but it seems like over the past several years, he has been dealing with injuries somewhat frequently, and insists on playing through them.

gotta give the man props, he really loves basketball and will do anything to help his team win. ive always felt that skill-wise, hes equal or possibly superior to jordan, but various intangibles always held him back from reaching that level of greatness. however that gap has been steadily closing.

[MiamiHeat]

It's hype.

Kobe is not even the best closer in today's game.

Kobe may have 35 career game winners, and he also has like 100 missed game winners.

Carmelo, LeBron, and Wade all have better efficiency with game winners.

So giving Kobe credit for x amount of game winners, is just giving credit to someone who has jacked it up a lot of times and actually made some.

[DazedAndConfused]

i wonder how much longer Kobe is going to last though. i know he takes good care of himself, but it seems like over the past several years, he has been dealing with injuries somewhat frequently, and insists on playing through them.

gotta give the man props, he really loves basketball and will do anything to help his team win. ive always felt that skill-wise, hes equal or possibly superior to jordan, but various intangibles always held him back from reaching that level of greatness. however that gap has been steadily closing.

Kobe has not had a major injury yet so I don't know what you are talking about.

These finger issues are relatively minor compared to say a blown knee like KG.

As long as he is healthy come playoff time that's all that matters.

[mystargtr34]

Is that Washington article pointing to Kobe as the best finisher of all time because of his three game winners this season?

[DazedAndConfused]

He may not be the best finisher of all time, but there is no question he's the best active finisher in the NBA.

For proof, you need only refer back to the 2009 Olympics. Who did Team USA defer to in the closing moments?

That's right, Kobe.

[HarlemHeat37]

Why do you think Kobe's shooting % on game winners is so relatively low?..serious question, I'm interested in finding out..I figure Laker fans would know the answer since they watch him all the time..

[fevertrees]

li52iOIFA6M

[fevertrees]

XXCE2TwoiHo

[pauls931]

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs260.snc1/10724_1214936860143_1430463920_614998_5997746_n.jp g

[mystargtr34]

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs260.snc1/10724_1214936860143_1430463920_614998_5997746_n.jp g

Lmao

[4>0rings]

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs260.snc1/10724_1214936860143_1430463920_614998_5997746_n.jp g
Holy shit.... :rollin

[BadOdor]

Why do you think Kobe's shooting % on game winners is so relatively low?..serious question, I'm interested in finding out..I figure Laker fans would know the answer since they watch him all the time..

The 2005-2007 period where he had to play with smush/kwame/walton as starters. He could never trust those guys(for good reason) and was taking buzzer beaters with 3 people in his face(kobe with 3 people in his face still> walton open shot). That might explain his it....I would guess that if you count his stats for his 2000-2004 and 2008 till today you will find his "clutch" stats are better. All that being said, I don't really believe in "clutchness".

[ChrisRichards]

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs260.snc1/10724_1214936860143_1430463920_614998_5997746_n.jp g
:rollin

[rhyputa]

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs260.snc1/10724_1214936860143_1430463920_614998_5997746_n.jp g

you use this to jerk off? :rollin

[MiamiHeat]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html

Kobe, LeBron or D-Wade: Which one is most clutch?


Posted Nov 5 2009 12:25PM

LeBron James #1
Carmelo #2
Wade #3
Bryant #4

Last week, we looked at clutch free-throw shooting, and that sparked a few questions like this one from Grady Farmer:

"Is Kobe Bryant really that more clutch than LeBron James or Dwyane Wade?"


So Grady, the answer is no. Kobe isn't more clutch than LeBron or D-Wade.

[MiamiHeat]

Kobe Bryant and this "clutch" garbage is HYPE. it's all fucking MYTH. and that's a fucking fact. People are just repeating it because they heard it somewhere, but it's NOT BASED ON ANY FACT WHATSOEVER

[MiamiHeat]

and of course

I will be labeled a "HATER" even though I'm posting fucking FACTS AND STATS

if Kome was the real deal, I WOULD FUCKING SAY IT.

HE'S OVERRATED. FACT.

[The Gemini Method]

And you're obsessed. FACT.

[rhyputa]

The Lakers are 11.8 points per 100 possessions better than their opponents when Kobe is in the game and 8.8 points per 100 possessions worse than their opponents when he sits. Meanwhile, the Cavs are 9.5 points better than their opponents when LeBron plays and only 5.7 points worse than their opponents when LeBron sits. Some of that has to do with the Cavs’ unorthodox strategy of making one of their worst five-man units their starting lineup, but in any case it’s a point in Kobe’s favor.

[rhyputa]

"I eat first," said Bryant. "Everybody knows that. It's not an issue."

:lmao:rollin

[rhyputa]

Casey Jacobsen being a writer?
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/01/finding-success/

Going back to the question I asked…the best example for me to illustrate this situation is a former 2008 teammate: Pau Gasol. Drafted by Memphis in 2001, Pau blossomed from a skinny talented foreigner into one of the most athletic and feared offensive big men in the game. Memphis, a team no one expected to be any good for years, surrounded Pau with good role players like Battier, Bonzi Wells and Mike Miller. The Grizzlies made the playoffs for three consecutive years (2003-2006), although they got swept every year in the first round.

The question surrounding that team after those failures were: Is Pau really a “superstar” player? Can you build a championship team around him? Or was it that they needed to add more quality players around him to get to that next level? During the next year in 2007, frustrations boiled over after the Grizzlies took a giant step back and missed the Playoffs. Pau stated that summer that he wanted to be traded if Memphis wasn’t serious about contending for a championship. That next season, our team was bad and Pau made it clear he was unhappy. In a way to dump Gasol’s huge contract and save money, Memphis traded Pau to the Lakers at the trade deadline in 2008.

I knew Pau hit the lottery with his new situation. Most people think any good player would have been happy to be traded to L.A. and join forces with Kobe, but I would disagree. Kobe has such an alpha-male strangle hold that I believe there would be certain guys who, if unwilling to defer to Kobe, would mess up that team.
I always thought Pau Gasol was uncomfortable in the “franchise player” role. He didn’t want that pressure or responsibility, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. Not everyone is comfortable taking that on…some want to be paid like a franchise guy, but don’t want the rest that comes along with it. I always thought Pau would be much more comfortable as a second option on a good team, but the people in Memphis wanted more from him.

Pau is a team player with a star’s skill set. He is a great teammate because he loves to pass and he doesn’t care if he averages 20 and 10, as long as he is allowed to help a team win. Pau is a really, really good player, but he is not an true superstar. Kobe is. That is why the two of them have flourished together.

[Allanon]

It's easy to define Kobe's clutch, there aren't any complex mathematical equations needed. Just count 'em up.

Oddly enough, in all of the "Kobe isn't clutch" articles I've read, this simple math is never brought up. :lol

Bird 36
Kobe ~30
Jordan 25

[ChrisRichards]

It's easy to define Kobe's clutch, there aren't any complex mathematical equations needed. Just count 'em up.

Oddly enough, in all of the "Kobe isn't clutch" articles I've read, this simple math is never brought up. :lol

Bird 36
Kobe ~30
Jordan 25
Efficiency


Kobe has the lowest % of the Top 10. He's under 35%.

[stretch]

The Lakers are 11.8 points per 100 possessions better than their opponents when Kobe is in the game and 8.8 points per 100 possessions worse than their opponents when he sits. Meanwhile, the Cavs are 9.5 points better than their opponents when LeBron plays and only 5.7 points worse than their opponents when LeBron sits. Some of that has to do with the Cavs’ unorthodox strategy of making one of their worst five-man units their starting lineup, but in any case it’s a point in Kobe’s favor.

it also has a lot to do with the style of play. the lakers play a MUCH faster and offensive oriented style than the Cavs play.

[Allanon]

Efficiency


Kobe has the lowest % of the Top 10. He's under 35%.

Who cares about how efficient you are when you are winning the game? Do the other 9 "efficient" clutch players actually win games?

Cuz Kobe has won more than any active player and only trails Larry Legend.

Does clutch "efficiency" translate to wins? Please Name the top "10 most efficient" and clutch players please.

Let's see all the clutch "efficient" players ahead of Kobe on your list. Name those other 9 guys who are more "efficient" at clutch than Kobe and we'll talk about them. :lol

[ChrisRichards]

Who cares about how efficient you are when you are winning the game? Do the other 9 "efficient" clutch players actually win games?

Cuz Kobe has won more than any active player and only trails Larry Legend.

Does clutch "efficiency" translate to wins? Please Name the top "10 most efficient" and clutch players please.

Let's see all the clutch "efficient" players ahead of Kobe on your list. Name those other 9 guys who are more "efficient" at clutch than Kobe and we'll talk about them. :lol


Lebron
Ray Allen
Carmelo
Dirk
Vince Carter
Ben Gordon
Paul Pierce
Rashard Lewis
Hedo Turkoglu

are all above Kobe percentage wise. these are all players that has at least 10FGA on clutch situations. Per 82games.com thank you.

[Allanon]

Lebron
Ray Allen
Carmelo
Dirk
Vince Carter
Ben Gordon
Paul Pierce
Rashard Lewis
Hedo Turkoglu

are all above Kobe percentage wise.

There are some great names on that list you gave.

Please show me where you got these numbers and I'll show you how flawed this list is.

[MiamiHeat]

It's easy to define Kobe's clutch, there aren't any complex mathematical equations needed. Just count 'em up.

Oddly enough, in all of the "Kobe isn't clutch" articles I've read, this simple math is never brought up. :lol

Bird 36
Kobe ~30
Jordan 25

so, with that logic, my non-NBA ass could attempt 1 million game winners, make 100 of them for an abysmal percentage, but still have 100 game winners and be 64 game winners ahead of Larry Bird

Again, you are giving Kobe credit for having more attempts.

he made 30 something game winners, but you are forgetting that he has attempted the most, BY FAR, and has the worst efficiency.

[Allanon]

so, with that logic, my non-NBA ass could attempt 1 million game winners, make 100 of them for an abysmal percentage, but still have 100 game winners and be 64 game winners ahead of Larry Bird

Again, you are giving Kobe credit for having more attempts.

he made 30 something game winners, but you are forgetting that he has attempted the most, BY FAR, and has the worst efficiency.

The point is Kobe made them and won the games.

This is about winning the game. Kobe's won 4 games this year with the last shot.

Yet Kobe is less efficient than Shawn Marion according to your link:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html

So how many games has Shawn Marion won with his great efficiency?

Isn't "clutch" about winning the game or is it better to be "efficiently clutch" while losing the game?

[MiamiHeat]

Shawn Marion doesn't qualify with enough attempts.

LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, Allen do have enough game winning attempts

all of them have better efficiency at it than Kobe does.

You are being dishonest by calling a volume shooter 'the most clutch'

[Allanon]

Shawn Marion doesn't quality with enough attempts

LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, Allen do

all of them have better efficiency at game winners.

Oh, so now we have to qualify this list.

Please show me your list and where you are getting this information.

ps. Are you talking about the John Schuman list? Does that mean Manu Ginobili isn't "qualify" as clutch?

[MiamiHeat]

did you avoid reading my post up there?

I already posted the link

here it is again

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html


Quote from the article :

Last week, we looked at clutch free-throw shooting, and that sparked a few questions like this one from Grady Farmer:

"Is Kobe Bryant really that more clutch than LeBron James or Dwyane Wade?"


So Grady, the answer is no. Kobe isn't more clutch than LeBron or D-Wade.

[Allanon]

did you avoid reading my post up there?

I already posted the link

here it is again

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html


Quote from the article :

Last week, we looked at clutch free-throw shooting, and that sparked a few questions like this one from Grady Farmer:

"Is Kobe Bryant really that more clutch than LeBron James or Dwyane Wade?"


So Grady, the answer is no. Kobe isn't more clutch than LeBron or D-Wade.

Ok. John Schuman article.

You said Marion doesn't qualify to be clutch because he doesn't have enough attempts.

Does this mean Manu Ginobili doesn't qualify to be clutch?

[MiamiHeat]

Here's another

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

LeBron is #1

Kobe is #4

[MiamiHeat]

so please, drop the bullshit myth about kobe being this godly clutch player. he's not.

anyone with a brain, honesty, and time to look at the facts, will realize that he's not even the best clutch player in the league right NOW, much less comparable to all time greats like MJ or Bird

[Allanon]

Here's another

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

LeBron is #1

Kobe is #4

We are still working out the flaws in the John Schumann article you posted.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html


Let's expose that one first.

Please tell me if Manu Ginobili is clutch or not?

[MiamiHeat]

...and then we get to Kobe Bryant. Kobe fans don't like to hear it, but while their man is #4 in the league in total game winners hit, he holds the top spot in a less glamorous category: most game winning opportunity missed shots!

42 - Kobe
35 - Vince Carter
33 - Joe Johnson, LeBron
32 - Crawford
31 - Billups

- from the 82games.com article

[Allanon]

...and then we get to Kobe Bryant. Kobe fans don't like to hear it, but while their man is #4 in the league in total game winners hit, he holds the top spot in a less glamorous category: most game winning opportunity missed shots!

42 - Kobe
35 - Vince Carter
33 - Joe Johnson, LeBron
32 - Crawford
31 - Billups

- from the 82games.com article

We are still working out the flaws in the John Schumann article you posted.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html


Let's expose that one first.

Please tell me if Manu Ginobili is clutch or not?

[MiamiHeat]

We are still working out the flaws in the John Schumann article you posted.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html


Let's expose that one first.

Please tell me if Manu Ginobili is clutch or not?

I don't care what you think about ginobili, what I do know is that LeBron and others are better clutch players than Kobe is, and the stats prove it.