A Scathing Indictment on Duncan's Work Effort and Pop's Coaching Philosophy

[F_U_Buddy]

This article speaks volumes about Pop and Duncan so I don't need to pile on in this case...

I pulled the main and most revealing points from the article and they're bolded and italicized... for those who are reading averse feel free to skip to these points:

"Even among his most ardent supporters and diehard Lakers fans, there was disagreement Wednesday. A significant faction passionately believed Bryant should skip the game Wednesday night in Dallas to rest — and maybe skip many more games — fearing for his safety if he wouldn't exercise caution on his own with a bad back and fractured finger.

In fact, San Antonio beat the Lakers on Tuesday night, when Bryant wound up crippled with back spasms, and the Spurs proceeded to have Tim Duncan (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34853168/ns/sports-nba/#) sit out Wednesday night in Oklahoma City.



Why? Just to rest. Duncan, a fellow four-time champ and only two years older than Bryant, wasn't even hurt. And Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said he'll do it again and again this season in hopes of having Duncan fresher for playoff glory.


Neither Bryant nor Phil Jackson (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34853168/ns/sports-nba/#) has the kind of prescription for Popovich's long view. They are in-the-moment guys, and Jackson believes regular-season moments serve as firm steppingstones toward that playoff glory.


Bryant sensed his back tightening late, particularly when he tried to go left, so he knew to go right on his tie-breaking 19-footer over Josh Howard with 28.9 seconds to play. Jackson locked eyes with Bryant to see if he wanted a timeout, but Bryant knew what he wanted.





If there can be less way than no way, that's where Bryant stands on sitting out. He has not missed a game with injury or illness in more than three years. That streak might just rank as personal point of pride...

While he rested his back late Tuesday night in San Antonio, Bryant mind was racing to figure out how to play Wednesday night in Dallas...



As Bryant said when we sat down for a lengthy interview before the season, he doesn't understand how his fans fail to understand that he's nowhere near the end of his career with how much he loves to play and the revolutionary manner in which he attends to his body.
It's simply a fanatical desire to punch the clock that most people who don't love their jobs can't fathom.


Bryant went for 10, and his teammates went for 90.
"Great win," Bryant said. "I love the win even more because it gives our bench new life. It gives them confidence; they've been struggling for awhile."





I later told Bryant what Odom had said and wondered if Bryant's sore back had actually helped Odom and Artest register what they can do, Bryant replied with surprising animation at the end of such a long day. Said Bryant: "I thought, 'It's about (expletive) time. It's about time. What the (heck) you guys waiting for? Don't sit around and wait for me to bail your (butts) out all the time. Get going – because it makes us a better team. Don't worry about me. You've got to be aggressive.' "


Just as those fans who admire Bryant still don't fully get him, the teammates who admire him need to understand, too.
He pushes his limits for his own reasons."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34853168/ns/sports-nba/

[DazedAndConfused]

I trust in Phil and Kobe.

[PGDynasty24]

Kobe knew that even if he wasn't even 50% that his presence alone takes pressure off the other players.

[HarlemHeat37]

I hate athletes that don't know when it's time to let go..

[Andrew Bynum]

I hate posters that put sixteen periods between each word.

[z0sa]

I hate posters that put sixteen periods between each word.

ive asked him like 3-4 times why he does that shit, he never answers.

[xellos88330]

Trying to take a dig at Pop and Duncan?

If that is the way you see it, than thats the way you see it. Nothing I can say can change your mind.

Please attempt to understand this. Say Duncan fouls out of a playoff contest early... wouldn't you like to know that your team can still keep playing on at a high level even without your best player? Kobe is preventing his team from gaining experience without him on the court. How will the Lakers function without Bryant? Do you feel comfortable when Bryant is out of the game?

[namlook]

Trying to take a dig at Pop and Duncan?

If that is the way you see it, than thats the way you see it. Nothing I can say can change your mind.

Please attempt to understand this. Say Duncan fouls out of a playoff contest early... wouldn't you like to know that your team can still keep playing on at a high level even without your best player? Kobe is preventing his team from gaining experience without him on the court. How will the Lakers function without Bryant? Do you feel comfortable when Bryant is out of the game?

Kobe is doing nothing of the sort. He's not the coach. Phil stated if it will hurt the team to play Kobe when he's not 100% he won't play him. Sometimes playing hurt sends a message to the rest of the team and gets guys to dig a little deeper.

[milkshakeballa]

As Bryant said when we sat down for a lengthy interview before the season, he doesn't understand how his fans fail to understand that he's nowhere near the end of his career with how much he loves to play and the revolutionary manner in which he attends to his body.


And people think he only has a few more years left.....



:rollin:rollin:rollin

[TinTin]

I can always count on fubuddy to brighten up my day:lmao

[ezau]

Nothing to here, it's the same Kobe bravado that we all know for years. Athletes who never know when to quit usually damage the legacy that worked hard to establish

[Strike]

Nothing to here, it's the same Kobe bravado that we all know for years. Athletes who never know when to quit usually damage the legacy that worked hard to establish

See: Jordan, Michael

[Man In Black]

You guys never met his dad. I was once a Clipper Ballboy and his dad was even more selfish than KBB. Joe Jellybean would bitch to Gene Shue about playing time, about taking shots during critical periods of the game, never once caring that Coach Shue had All-Stars in then Lloyd Free & Randy Smith and a solid interior with Swen Nater.

Joe got so pissed off about it that he bailed for Italy after a year in Houston. Lifetime NBA PPG?...8.7
Stll pissed so much that he instilled in his son a pervasive let Bryants' rule the roost attitude. Like they should be entitled.

While KBB's playing career may not be done for awhile, his dominance seems to now have limits. Ain't Father Time a bitch?

[HarlemHeat37]

Was his father a rapist too?..it could be in the genes..

[I_Speak_4_Dallas_Fan]

Can someone let me know cause I really don't want to be rude. Is F_U_Buddy... like... slow or retarded?

[duhoh]

Can someone let me know cause I really don't want to be rude. Is F_U_Buddy... like... slow or retarded?

you aren't rude at all :toast

[wijayas]

Neither Bryant nor Phil Jackson has the kind of prescription for Popovich's long view. They are in-the-moment guys, and Jackson believes regular-season moments serve as firm steppingstones toward that playoff glory.

If there can be less way than no way, that's where Bryant stands on sitting out. He has not missed a game with injury or illness in more than three years. That streak might just rank as personal point of pride...

Being a Spurs fan, I would rather have Bryant and Phil feed their ego by winning the Iron Man contest. They should and must play Bryant 46+ minutes a game!

[wijayas]

I trust in Phil and Kobe.

good for you. should play Kobe longer minutes.

On a more serious note, I think Lakers can win it all even without Kobe as long as Gasol is healthy.

[Shastafarian]

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/files/cool_story__bro_267.jpg

[21_Blessings]

While KBB's playing career may not be done for awhile, his dominance seems to now have limits. Ain't Father Time a bitch?

Kobe's winning titles in his 30's while Duncan is getting his ass kicked out the playoffs in the 1st round despite playing next to an all-star point guard in Parker.

Father time is a bitch. But it seems Kobe is his favorite son.

[xellos88330]

Kobe is doing nothing of the sort. He's not the coach. Phil stated if it will hurt the team to play Kobe when he's not 100% he won't play him. Sometimes playing hurt sends a message to the rest of the team and gets guys to dig a little deeper.

He is doing it whether you notice it or not.

Just look at the game between Spurs and Lakers. Kobe left in the fourth quarter. The bench brings the Lakers back... no Kobe to help finish it off. Then, they lose by 20 points.

Playing hurt can sometimes send the right message. I am not denying that. It could also send the wrong one.

If I played for the Lakers my thoughts would be, "Look at this asshole... he has no faith that we can do the job without him. How self centered can you get?"

[Muser]

So the author is just jacking off to Kobe being a "warrior".

[admiralsnackbar]

Like Kobe, f_u_buddy oftentimes tries so hard that he ends up trolling himself by accident.

[Summers]

So the author is just jacking off to Kobe being a "warrior".

Yeah, you could give the writer the benefit of the doubt and say he was simply making an observation that the coaches' styles are different, but for FUB to interpret that as an indictment on Duncan's work ethic is homerism. Duncan's long hours and hard work behind the scenes have been well-documented.

[Xevious]

Perhaps somebody could explain how this in any way is a scathing indictment on Duncan's work effort and Pop's coaching philosophy?

[namlook]

Like Kobe, f_u_buddy oftentimes tries so hard that he ends up trolling himself by accident.

I think he's just looking to get laid based on his sig.

[namlook]

On a more serious note, I think Lakers can win it all even without Kobe as long as Gasol is healthy.

Hahahaha!! What???!! LOL. No chance in hell.

[DarkReign]

Ignore List
Anthony Randolph
Baseline
BRHornet45
ChrisRichards
Frank Lucas
HarlemHeat37
MiamiHeat
midnightpulp
Tacker

You little girl...what did the big bad men hurt your whittle feeeeewings?

Awwwww...

[Mr.Robinson]

Kobe's winning titles in his 30's while Duncan is getting his ass kicked out the playoffs in the 1st round despite playing next to an all-star point guard in Parker.

Father time is a bitch. But it seems Kobe is his favorite son.

LOL This dude has to be 16.

[spursncowboys]

And people think he only has a few more years left.....



:rollin:rollin:rollin
He can want to play all he wants. Time stops for no one. I don't see him playing healthy for long lengths anymore.
Being in a job that is physically demanding, I can appreciate a leader who cares about my health more than a goal or unimportant measurement.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Without even debating the point you raise:

First, who the hell is Kevin Ding of the Orange County Register and why do we care what he says in what is labeled an opinion piece? You act like he's some kind of NBA guru that we should pay attention to.

BTW here's his picture: http://www.wickedinfo.com/images/stories/interviews/kevin_ding.jpg

Second, do you actually think Kobe Bryant has a single negative thought about Gregg Popovich or Tim Duncan and their approach to the game and their successes? If so you are deluded. It was this Kevin Ding guy who contrasted their approaches, not Kobe.

[namlook]

You little girl...what did the big bad men hurt your whittle feeeeewings?

Awwwww...

This is the idiot list. I don't want to read posts by idiots. If you have a problem with that, tough shit.

_____________________________

Ignore List


Anthony Randolph (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18779)
Baseline (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14719)
BRHornet45 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11905)
ChrisRichards (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16909)
Frank Lucas (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17559)
HarlemHeat37 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597)
MiamiHeat (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11613)
midnightpulp (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430)
Tacker (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11534)

[Trainwreck2100]

also tim duncan doesn't need to play injured to motivate his teammates, like kobe must do as this article and the op suggests.

[Baseline]

I live in LA, and I can tell you that articles like this are completely indicative of Laker fans. They honestly think that Bryant is on some ascendant level above all other players in the League - or even the history of the League. It's laughable.

The only thing I can understand is that they obviously had to arrive at a suitable disconnect at some point in order to rationalize their fandom - for continuing to pull and cheer and scream ofr a guy like Bryant. When Bryant was accused of rape, the city was paralyzed. When he was questioned by the police in Colorado, he literally dropped the name of a teammate, Shaquille O'Neal, as he was being questioned about committing a rape. How on Earth does something like this happen? In the police report, he admitted to a specific lewd act with the woman, saying, "You know, that's my thing." I'll guarantee you that 95% of Laker fans, if not 99%, have not read the police report. If any Laker fans have, I would be stunned if they are still Laker fans. However, I suppose if a person can read the police report and still cheer and scream for Bryant to succeed... well, to each his own.

As we know, the case never went to trial. But during the months of proceedings, Laker fans had to convince themselves that their guy wasn't a sexual predator. So to overcompensate, they reconstructed a guy who is a talented but incredibly selfish basketball player into some mythic figure. Laker fans blew him up to such a grandiose point that Bryant is ostensibly looming over Wilshire Blvd like a cartoon balloon from a Macy's Thanksgiving parade.

So now, it's no wonder that Bryant is such a polarizing figure. The level of adulation - and credit - he receives from Laker fans is so over-the-top and unwarranted. After all, Shaquille brought three titles to the city. This fact is abundantly clear to 100% of the people outside of LA. Shaquille was the clear MVP in those three titles. Yet now, Shaquille has been reduced to an afterthought, as if he were the one who was coattaling. This is also laughable.

Similarly, the Lakers won the title last year with Bryant as their leading scorer. But it didn't come until Pau Gasol, another dominant big man, joined the team.

Bottom line...in the minds of Laker fans, Bryant is something far greater than he is. I now realize that this is because he has to be.

If Laker fans looked at Bryant as who and what he really is, they could no longer be Laker fans.

[TheManFromAcme]

^ What a post, I have to admit. Sadly, some aspects of your piece are on target (some).
Real Laker fans are not all over Kobe's jock I have to admit. Not saying that all Kobe fans are not real Laker fans but I've come to the realization that my love, adoration and affinity for all things Lakers are based from the old time guys I enjoyed watching, i.e., your Magic's, Coop's, Scott's. when I was a kid.
They were the, for lack of a better word, "Cooler" Lakers.

Kobe is great no doubt but to rest the entire lure and history of what the Lakers represent on #24 who will be a afterthought 5-6 years from now is tragic. The Lakers are a whole lot more than #24.

I am convinced our old and much missed announcer Chick Hearn would agree with my last sentence. :depressed

[TheMime]

I live in LA, and I can tell you that articles like this are completely indicative of Laker fans. They honestly think that Bryant is on some ascendant level above all other players in the League - or even the history of the League. It's laughable.

The only thing I can understand is that they obviously had to arrive at a suitable disconnect at some point in order to rationalize their fandom - for continuing to pull and cheer and scream ofr a guy like Bryant. When Bryant was accused of rape, the city was paralyzed. When he was questioned by the police in Colorado, he literally dropped the name of a teammate, Shaquille O'Neal, as he was being questioned about committing a rape. How on Earth does something like this happen? In the police report, he admitted to a specific lewd act with the woman, saying, "You know, that's my thing." I'll guarantee you that 95% of Laker fans, if not 99%, have not read the police report. If any Laker fans have, I would be stunned if they are still Laker fans. However, I suppose if a person can read the police report and still cheer and scream for Bryant to succeed... well, to each his own.

As we know, the case never went to trial. But during the months of proceedings, Laker fans had to convince themselves that their guy wasn't a sexual predator. So to overcompensate, they reconstructed a guy who is a talented but incredibly selfish basketball player into some mythic figure. Laker fans blew him up to such a grandiose point that Bryant is ostensibly looming over Wilshire Blvd like a cartoon balloon from a Macy's Thanksgiving parade.

So now, it's no wonder that Bryant is such a polarizing figure. The level of adulation - and credit - he receives from Laker fans is so over-the-top and unwarranted. After all, Shaquille brought three titles to the city. This fact is abundantly clear to 100% of the people outside of LA. Shaquille was the clear MVP in those three titles. Yet now, Shaquille has been reduced to an afterthought, as if he were the one who was coattaling. This is also laughable.

Similarly, the Lakers won the title last year with Bryant as their leading scorer. But it didn't come until Pau Gasol, another dominant big man, joined the team.

Bottom line...in the minds of Laker fans, Bryant is something far greater than he is. I now realize that this is because he has to be.

If Laker fans looked at Bryant as who and what he really is, they could no longer be Laker fans.

...

[Agloco]

....Bryant sensed his back tightening late, particularly when he tried to go left, so he knew to go right on his tie-breaking 19-footer over Josh Howard with 28.9 seconds to play. Jackson locked eyes with Bryant to see if he wanted a timeout, but Bryant knew what he wanted......




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_reATG584XVc/RzxRqCWslaI/AAAAAAAAAA4/v0dh2jboNRU/s400/Brokeback-Phil-Kobe.jpg

[midnightpulp]

I live in LA, and I can tell you that articles like this are completely indicative of Laker fans. They honestly think that Bryant is on some ascendant level above all other players in the League - or even the history of the League. It's laughable.

The only thing I can understand is that they obviously had to arrive at a suitable disconnect at some point in order to rationalize their fandom - for continuing to pull and cheer and scream ofr a guy like Bryant. When Bryant was accused of rape, the city was paralyzed. When he was questioned by the police in Colorado, he literally dropped the name of a teammate, Shaquille O'Neal, as he was being questioned about committing a rape. How on Earth does something like this happen? In the police report, he admitted to a specific lewd act with the woman, saying, "You know, that's my thing." I'll guarantee you that 95% of Laker fans, if not 99%, have not read the police report. If any Laker fans have, I would be stunned if they are still Laker fans. However, I suppose if a person can read the police report and still cheer and scream for Bryant to succeed... well, to each his own.

As we know, the case never went to trial. But during the months of proceedings, Laker fans had to convince themselves that their guy wasn't a sexual predator. So to overcompensate, they reconstructed a guy who is a talented but incredibly selfish basketball player into some mythic figure. Laker fans blew him up to such a grandiose point that Bryant is ostensibly looming over Wilshire Blvd like a cartoon balloon from a Macy's Thanksgiving parade.

So now, it's no wonder that Bryant is such a polarizing figure. The level of adulation - and credit - he receives from Laker fans is so over-the-top and unwarranted. After all, Shaquille brought three titles to the city. This fact is abundantly clear to 100% of the people outside of LA. Shaquille was the clear MVP in those three titles. Yet now, Shaquille has been reduced to an afterthought, as if he were the one who was coattaling. This is also laughable.

Similarly, the Lakers won the title last year with Bryant as their leading scorer. But it didn't come until Pau Gasol, another dominant big man, joined the team.

Bottom line...in the minds of Laker fans, Bryant is something far greater than he is. I now realize that this is because he has to be.

If Laker fans looked at Bryant as who and what he really is, they could no longer be Laker fans.

Post of the year :lobt2:

Too bad most Laker homers won't read it as they are incapable of thinking beyond two word headlines and 30 second sound bites.

[WalterSobchak]

I live in LA, and I can tell you that articles like this are completely indicative of Laker fans. They honestly think that Bryant is on some ascendant level above all other players in the League - or even the history of the League. It's laughable.

The only thing I can understand is that they obviously had to arrive at a suitable disconnect at some point in order to rationalize their fandom - for continuing to pull and cheer and scream ofr a guy like Bryant. When Bryant was accused of rape, the city was paralyzed. When he was questioned by the police in Colorado, he literally dropped the name of a teammate, Shaquille O'Neal, as he was being questioned about committing a rape. How on Earth does something like this happen? In the police report, he admitted to a specific lewd act with the woman, saying, "You know, that's my thing." I'll guarantee you that 95% of Laker fans, if not 99%, have not read the police report. If any Laker fans have, I would be stunned if they are still Laker fans. However, I suppose if a person can read the police report and still cheer and scream for Bryant to succeed... well, to each his own.

As we know, the case never went to trial. But during the months of proceedings, Laker fans had to convince themselves that their guy wasn't a sexual predator. So to overcompensate, they reconstructed a guy who is a talented but incredibly selfish basketball player into some mythic figure. Laker fans blew him up to such a grandiose point that Bryant is ostensibly looming over Wilshire Blvd like a cartoon balloon from a Macy's Thanksgiving parade.

So now, it's no wonder that Bryant is such a polarizing figure. The level of adulation - and credit - he receives from Laker fans is so over-the-top and unwarranted. After all, Shaquille brought three titles to the city. This fact is abundantly clear to 100% of the people outside of LA. Shaquille was the clear MVP in those three titles. Yet now, Shaquille has been reduced to an afterthought, as if he were the one who was coattaling. This is also laughable.

Similarly, the Lakers won the title last year with Bryant as their leading scorer. But it didn't come until Pau Gasol, another dominant big man, joined the team.

Bottom line...in the minds of Laker fans, Bryant is something far greater than he is. I now realize that this is because he has to be.

If Laker fans looked at Bryant as who and what he really is, they could no longer be Laker fans.


:toast Excellent post Dude.

Remember when Kobe was crying to be traded out of LA to Stephen A Smith? Lakers fans were so angry and butt hurt over his comments. I was actually impressed to hear the Lakers fans boo him when he was on the floor that first game in Staples after the controversy. Only to watch and listen to every sheep in that building begin to cheer for him and yell MVP when he started scoring a ton of points. Ah, how quickly they forget. Fucking Nihilists.

[jacobdrj]

From what I have seen from Phil, he uses his bench more than almost any other coach. No matter how bad his bench is, he recognizes that they are NBA players and have some kind of value, even if overall they are scrubs. Therefore, overall, his teams are both more fresh and better prepared for playing meaningful minutes in the playoffs, roster 1-12...

However, that isn't to say that Phil has never employed the 'rest a bigman' before. Don't forget Shaq and his conveniently arthritic toe. Until Miami, Shaq never missed a playoff game. And while with the Lakers, he rarely played a whole season. It worked just fine for him. Kobe may not have liked that, but it was important. Wish Malone had done that with the Lakers instead of wearing himself out in the regular season.

[thispego]

lmao at the thought of the lakers being a couple of all-stars short when it comes playoff time :lmao kobe's back, gasol's hammy, bynum's knee, ????

gonna be awesome

[hater]

Lebron > Kobe

[namlook]

Lebron > Kobe

Championship Rings not won

Lebron > Kobe

[Agloco]

This is the idiot list. I don't want to read posts by idiots. If you have a problem with that, tough shit.

_____________________________

Ignore List


Anthony Randolph (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18779)
Baseline (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14719)
BRHornet45 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11905)
ChrisRichards (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16909)
Frank Lucas (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17559)
HarlemHeat37 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597)
MiamiHeat (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11613)
midnightpulp (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430)
Tacker (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11534)


Why is HH37 on that list? His posts are solid.

[midnightpulp]

Kobe's winning titles in his 30's while Duncan is getting his ass kicked out the playoffs in the 1st round despite playing next to an all-star point guard in Parker.

Father time is a bitch. But it seems Kobe is his favorite son.

Duncan was 31 in 07. And at the age of 33, Duncan's year is taking a shit statistically all over Cubby's. Something you Laker fan morons probably haven't realized since the only thing your retard brains are capable of focusing on is PPG.

Just do the forum a favor and stop posting.

[WalterSobchak]

Championship Rings not won

Lebron > Kobe


Rings won being the 2nd best player on team

Kobe > Pippen

[namlook]

Rings won being the 2nd best player on team

Kobe > Pippen

You are seriously confused. First of all Pippen has won more rings than Kobe and all of his rings were won as the #2 option. Therefore:

Rings won being the 2nd best player on team

Pippen > Kobe

But despite more rings there's a reason Pippen never gets mentioned as a top 10 all-time player while Kobe has already arrived there. Pippen never closed out games, Jordan did. Shaq never closed out games, Kobe did. When have you ever seen Shaq hit a game-winning shot? Kobe was the primary option when it mattered most and when the game was on the line. Pippen never was. Kobe has also shown his talent level is such he can win championships as the #1 offensive option. Pippen was never able to do that.

_____________________________________

Ignore List


Anthony Randolph (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18779)
Baseline (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14719)
BRHornet45 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11905)
ChrisRichards (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16909)
Frank Lucas (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17559)
HarlemHeat37 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597)
MiamiHeat (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11613)
midnightpulp (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430)
Tacker (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11534)

[F_U_Buddy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_reATG584XVc/RzxRqCWslaI/AAAAAAAAAA4/v0dh2jboNRU/s400/Brokeback-Phil-Kobe.jpg



I'm not gone lie that highlighted rebuttal was some very funny shit...I can't even hate on it...but it takes a gay to find the gay in innocence...congrats on being super gay...

[midnightpulp]

You are seriously confused. First of all Pippen has won more rings than Kobe and all of his rings were won as the #2 option. Therefore:

Rings won being the 2nd best player on team

Pippen > Kobe

But despite more rings there's a reason Pippen never gets mentioned as a top 10 all-time player while Kobe has already arrived there. Pippen never closed out games, Jordan did. Shaq never closed out games, Kobe did. When have you ever seen Shaq hit a game-winning shot? Never. Kobe was the primary option when it mattered most and when the game was on the line. Pippen never was. Kobe has also shown his talent level is such he can win championships as the #1 offensive option. Pippen was never able to do that.

_____________________________________

Ignore List


Anthony Randolph (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18779)
Baseline (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14719)
BRHornet45 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11905)
ChrisRichards (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16909)
Frank Lucas (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17559)
HarlemHeat37 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597)
MiamiHeat (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11613)
midnightpulp (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430)
Tacker (http://spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11534)


I know you have me on ignore but I'm going to address your points anyway.

The "clutch" and "closer" concepts as they relate to basketball and sports in general are extremely overrated. I understand Kobe fan's fascination with them, however. Since Kobe was completely overshadowed by Shaq, his ability to make free throws and hit a few clutch shots down the stretch (things any good wing player is capable of) is the only recourse Kobe fans have in trying to convince themselves that Kobe was as equally as important to those titles as Shaq was.

Kobe was the primary option when it mattered most? Are you kidding me? The first 10 minutes of the game are just as meaningful as the last 10. Clutch is a byproduct of selective memory and hyperbole. It's so funny to see idiot fans deem a player (any player) who can go 5-20 through the first 3 quarters but then hits a couple of key shots in the 4th, "clutch" and call a player who went 15-20 but maybe missed a FT or an easy shot to seal the game a "choker."

Too many fans have been brainwashed by the ESPiN hype machine. The coverage of the Lakers last game against Dallas was a prime example. Kobe hits a routine go-ahead jumper (after forcing up two horrible shots that allowed Dallas to tie it up) and is basically lauded as the hero of the game, with little focus on the stellar play of Bynum and the rest of the supporting cast. Did ESPN show those two limp shots that were blocked and barely grazed the rim? Was there any mention of Kobe's terrible shot selection during that stretch? Nope. Just a great big circle jerk about the "clutchness" of Kobe, which no doubt prompted many Kobe homers to drop their panties on the spot and join in on the "fun."

I personally would've like to see some serious discussion on Kobe's transition from star to role-player and how the Lakers are more effective when Kobe knows his role and defers.

[WalterSobchak]

You are seriously confused. First of all Pippen has won more rings than Kobe and all of his rings were won as the #2 option. Therefore:

Rings won being the 2nd best player on team

Pippen > Kobe

But despite more rings there's a reason Pippen never gets mentioned as a top 10 all-time player while Kobe has already arrived there. Pippen never closed out games, Jordan did. Shaq never closed out games, Kobe did. When have you ever seen Shaq hit a game-winning shot? Kobe was the primary option when it mattered most and when the game was on the line. Pippen never was. Kobe has also shown his talent level is such he can win championships as the #1 offensive option. Pippen was never able to do that.


But you see, I am not confused. Kobe is more "clutch" than Pippen. Therefore,

Best Role Player

Kobe > Pippen


I just find it funny that Kobe is in the GOAT conversations when he is simply a role player.

[Man In Black]

There is a reason why they call it the 4-letter network.
Back in the day, Entertainment Sports Programming Network begged for whatever programming they could get. They'd give us Aussie Rules & Canadian Football, followed by Lumberjack events. Now that they're bigger, they've shifted to mind control of the masses by carefully crafting stories favoring large metros over small metros. That's why team's that simply dominated by playing efficient basketball are overlooked due to 4-letters penchant to "craft" 1 against 5 mentality of ,"insert big city swingman here".
KBB, to his credit, realizes that he can't win shit without an interior presence and while I was laughing hysterically at all the claims of Laker fan swearing Kwame Brown's dominance as an interior defender, we all know that his true value was as a bargaining chip to a "COLLUSIONAL" trade.

Oh and I always say, Kobe's clutch ways don't mean shit unless someone is providing FOUNDATION. That's what Shaq did, and to a lesser extent, that's what Pau does now.