Why Does Jefferson Suck?

[Buddy Holly]

I mean seriously? Is it the team? The style? The players? The coach? Him? A combo? All the above?

[timtonymanu]

New system, needs the ball in his hands. I'm not worried. It's only January. When February comes around, RJ may surprisingly become the player we thought he was in the trade.

[jermaine]

He's only good with a pass first pg or catching allies I think.

[mystargtr34]

New system, needs the ball in his hands. I'm not worried. It's only January. When February comes around, RJ may surprisingly become the player we thought he was in the trade.

:lol i dont know if your being serious... but i laughed.

[redskinfan]

His point guard only creates for himself....

[Ice009]

Well one thing I want to know is why is he shooting jumpers. Does anyone have access to the coaching staff? Is anyone telling him to drive the ball to the rack and try to draw fouls?

[timtonymanu]

but in all seriousness, I really dont know what's up with RJ. I dont know if it's his intensity, but he doesn't play with a sense of urgency.

[Ice009]

His point guard only creates for himself....

I don't think Tony, Tim or Manu have much confidence in RJ. They all tried to get him going early in the season and now I think they don't feel like they can count on him so they are trying to do it themselves. I'd say they all like him off the court, but on the court it seems like they shy away from him in big moments. He's just had too many mental lapses to trust him when the game gets tight. Whether it be a turnover or a sloppy pass he just doesn't seem serious out there.

[ducks]

his name is not manu

[jag]

needs the ball in his hands.

Pretty much this.

He grew accustomed to being the go-to guy. He was able to get his from the tip, and thrived with the confidence that his shitty teammates in Milwaukee had in him. I really think it's a confidence thing. He doesn't feel like it's his place to try and take over the game and be the #1 option. And it's obvious that he can't get into a rhythm while being the 2nd/3rd/4th option.

[Ice009]

his name is not manu

Manu is playing like crap offensively. Are you happy now.

Manu is still doing other stuff out there to try and make up for it. Is RJ?

[murpjf88]

I mean seriously? Is it the team? The style? The players? The coach? Him? A combo? All the above?

All of the above. What your seeing is what your gonna get.

[ElNono]

Offensively, I think he's a rhytm guy. He likes to run, and he needs to be involved in the offense. Not necessarily finish the plays, but get a touch, be involved. The whole spot up shooter thing is really not working for him.
Defensively, the intensity is just not there. He had maybe an isolated block or good defense for stretches, but he just doesn't bring it every game. I really don't know what Pop was saying when we signed him up about his defense. Physically, he has the tools to be an elite defender, but he has never consistenly shown the interest.

[Ice009]

All of the above. What your seeing is what your gonna get.

Elaborate on RJ please. I have never seen you do it once. You just give really short answers not explaining anything.

[Johnny RIngo]

Spurs ruined any chance they have of competing for another title by taking on Jefferson's bloated contract. He's a mediocre player - a fringe all-star, at best. Always will be.

Hurts even more when you see that Tony's worn out from playing over the summer(yeah, TP's a moron) and that Manu's a shell of his former self. TD's the only constant and, even then, he's playing alone out there because the dumbass FO apparently though a washed-up Dice and Bonner would be enough help for Tim. Knowing this FO, we'll probably trade Splitter to another division rival(maybe the Mavs this time) and end up signing another over the hill vet in the off-season.

[Andrew Bynum]

Ron Artest at 5M or Dick at 14M, hmmmmmmmmmmm :lol

[hitmanyr2k]

I don't think Tony, Tim or Manu have much confidence in RJ. They all tried to get him going early in the season and now I think they don't feel like they can count on him so they are trying to do it themselves. I'd say they all like him off the court, but on the court it seems like they shy away from him in big moments. He's just had too many mental lapses to trust him when the game gets tight. Whether it be a turnover or a sloppy pass he just doesn't seem serious out there.

I guess every Spurs player should be looking in the mirror because they've ALL (Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili too) had mental lapses and thrown lazy, WTF-boneheaded-type passes when the game is on the line. It sure as hell isn't just Richard Jefferson. I've said on more than one occassion that Popovich needs to have advanced passing drills because his players throw some of the dumbest (and laziest) passes I've ever seen from a veteran team.

[iggypop123]

as a spot up shooter he is a waste. pop would probably be better off starting manu and having RJ on the bench so when he comes in the ball is in his hands at all times

[TIMMYD!]

RJ is disappointing but there's not much we can do.

[Kori Ellis]

People need to stop blaming other Spurs for why RJ isn't stepping up. He gets plenty of touches, but doesn't do enough with them. He plays soft, hesitant and doesn't move enough on offense. And even if he doesn't get touches through some stretches, he needs to contribute on the glass and defensively.

In the beginning of the season, you could blame it on the other players not being used to him. But at some point, he needs to start doing something when he gets the ball, and cutting so that he is in better position to get the ball.

[benefactor]

People need to stop blaming other Spurs for why RJ isn't stepping up. He gets plenty of touches, but doesn't do enough with them. He plays soft, hesitant and doesn't move enough on offense. And even if he doesn't get touches through some stretches, he needs to contribute on the glass and defensively.

In the beginning of the season, you could blame it on the other players not being used to him. But at some point, he needs to start doing something when he gets the ball, and cutting so that he is in better position to get the ball.
Exactly. His inconsistency in his play is all his own. As LJ mentioned tonight, he should have torched Randolph when he was matched up with him. He pretty much did nothing instead.

We have seen the ability...he just needs to do it all the time. He is especially needed now with Parker unable to play at the level we are used to seeing.

[rascal]

People need to stop blaming other Spurs for why RJ isn't stepping up. He gets plenty of touches, but doesn't do enough with them. He plays soft, hesitant and doesn't move enough on offense. And even if he doesn't get touches through some stretches, he needs to contribute on the glass and defensively.

In the beginning of the season, you could blame it on the other players not being used to him. But at some point, he needs to start doing something when he gets the ball, and cutting so that he is in better position to get the ball.

RJ needs to play in a more uptempo offense. The spurs are too much standing around the perimeter and this does not play into RJs game.

He is deadly on the break in the open court. The spurs need to forget about always having to get into a structured offense and have some fun looking for easy fastbreak points and run at times. This will open up Jeffersons game in all areas and the confidence will come back. Jefferson is good, the spurs style of play is not.

[EricB]

He's pretty much a streaky player.

He'll have some great games then some bad.

I don't even think Pop knows what he's gonna get from night to night.

[murpjf88]

Elaborate on RJ please. I have never seen you do it once. You just give really short answers not explaining anything.

Because he's not worth talking about.

RJ is not a clutch player. He's not going to make a team better unless the players around him are succeeding. This means when Tony, Manu, or TD struggle, RJ will be non existent.

RJ's jump shot has lost its lust. He is very poor perimeter shooter and almost never hits a contested jump shot.

His defense is terrible. Its almost like he doesn't care. It almost looks like laziness but its actually his lateral movement. He gets dominated against bigger and more athletic PF's.

RJ was brought in here to put us over the top. He's done anything but.

Against + .500 excluding Dallas, he is averaging 10.6 ppg on 33/104 = 32% from the field.
I don't think they need him in games against teams under .500.

He does a lot of standing around. When he gets the ball, instead of making an aggressive move to the basket, RJ passes the ball.

His freethrow shooting has tanked this season. Its at an all time low at 70%. That is when he gets to the line. He's averaging 3.5 free throws a game which is the lowest since his rookie year.

The bottomline is the spurs needed a player like stephen jackson and they got RJ instead. RJ is not the kind of impact player that is going to consistently deliver. RJ's 29, going on 33.

[Basileus777]

RJ simply isn't the player that he was when he was younger. He can't rebound, play defense, or work off the ball like he used too. Getting older and playing on New Jersey and Milwaukee teams where he was used a ball handler and scorer has changed his game. There's a reason his past two teams dumped him for expiring contracts. On a bad or mediocre team RJ can still be a decent player, but his current playing style doesn't suit a contender.

[rascal]

Problem is Jefferson has never been a very good perimeter spot up shooter. He needs to play in a more unstructured offense where fast break opportunities are not turned away for structured plays.

[timvp]

Pop should lock Richard Jefferson in an electrical closet.

[DPG21920]

I don't fully blame RJ. This team has a problem and you cannot expect a guy like RJ to come in and fix it. RJ is just following the leader. When TP and Manu and others are struggling, it is hard for a personality like RJ to come in and light the proverbial "fire".

He could certainly do more, however.

[HarlemHeat37]

RJ simply isn't the player that he was when he was younger. He can't rebound, play defense, or work off the ball like he used too. Getting older and playing on New Jersey and Milwaukee teams where he was used a ball handler and scorer has changed his game. There's a reason his past two teams dumped him for expiring contracts. On a bad or mediocre team RJ can still be a decent player, but his current playing style doesn't suit a contender.

What's good Basileus?..



I'm off the RJ bandwagon after tonight, that was too disappointing..everybody else has already covered the rest..

I will say that it doesn't help that the Spurs are 26th in the NBA in fastbreak points and don't play to his style..you can blame whoever you want for that, but Jefferson has been the same player for 2 seasons before this one..the Spurs have a front office that is supposed to study the players they're going to acquire before the move is made..Jefferson hasn't declined from the past 2 years, he's the same guy..part of the reason he has disappointed is on him for his lack of intensity and fire, but the other part of the blame clearly goes to the FO..

Orlando got Vince Carter for example..Vince has disappointed, but for a different reason..he has disappointed because he's shooting horribly, but he's playing the same style as he always has(when it comes to shooting..they haven't used him as a playmaker though, so that part is different)..in Orlando, you can mostly blame Carter for his struggles and you can put a little blame on SVG..

RJ is disappointing for a different reason..he's the same player that he was for 2 years, he just doesn't fit here..so in SA, the blame goes on the front office more than anybody..

[HarlemHeat37]

I also agree with DPG's point..

Jefferson is a COMPLIMENTARY piece..he's a 4th option here..generally, the #4 guy isn't responsible for the energy and intensity of a team..he's not a guy you should consistently rely on..I haven't looked at the #s, but I bet he plays a lot better when Parker and Ginobili play better..

[Ice009]

People need to stop blaming other Spurs for why RJ isn't stepping up. He gets plenty of touches, but doesn't do enough with them. He plays soft, hesitant and doesn't move enough on offense. And even if he doesn't get touches through some stretches, he needs to contribute on the glass and defensively.

In the beginning of the season, you could blame it on the other players not being used to him. But at some point, he needs to start doing something when he gets the ball, and cutting so that he is in better position to get the ball.

That's the ticket Kori. Maybe they will at least listen to you.

[AFBlue]

What's good Basileus?..



I'm off the RJ bandwagon after tonight, that was too disappointing..everybody else has already covered the rest..

I will say that it doesn't help that the Spurs are 26th in the NBA in fastbreak points and don't play to his style..you can blame whoever you want for that, but Jefferson has been the same player for 2 seasons before this one..the Spurs have a front office that is supposed to study the players they're going to acquire before the move is made..Jefferson hasn't declined from the past 2 years, he's the same guy..part of the reason he has disappointed is on him for his lack of intensity and fire, but the other part of the blame clearly goes to the FO..

Orlando got Vince Carter for example..Vince has disappointed, but for a different reason..he has disappointed because he's shooting horribly, but he's playing the same style as he always has..in Orlando, you can mostly blame Carter for his struggles and you can put a little blame on SVG..

RJ is disappointing for a different reason..he's the same player that he was for 2 years, he just doesn't fit here..so in SA, the blame goes on the front office more than anybody..

This is a really solid take, and it's just incredibly unfortunate if you're a Spurs fan.

The Spurs FO took a major gamble, probably the biggest of RCs career...and it's not panning out.

The worst part is that the FO likely closed the window on the possibility of making other improvements that would put them solidly in the Championship race for at least this year.

I still believe there is time for RJ to step up his individual game (even if it doesn't fit perfectly with the system) and/or for the Spurs FO to pull off some miracle trade.

But if RJ and the team continue to play like this, it's hard to see :lobt2: in their future.

[Ice009]

Because he's not worth talking about.

RJ is not a clutch player. He's not going to make a team better unless the players around him are succeeding. This means when Tony, Manu, or TD struggle, RJ will be non existent.

RJ's jump shot has lost its lust. He is very poor perimeter shooter and almost never hits a contested jump shot.

His defense is terrible. Its almost like he doesn't care. It almost looks like laziness but its actually his lateral movement. He gets dominated against bigger and more athletic PF's.

RJ was brought in here to put us over the top. He's done anything but.

Against + .500 excluding Dallas, he is averaging 10.6 ppg on 33/104 = 32% from the field.
I don't think they need him in games against teams under .500.

He does a lot of standing around. When he gets the ball, instead of making an aggressive move to the basket, RJ passes the ball.

His freethrow shooting has tanked this season. Its at an all time low at 70%. That is when he gets to the line. He's averaging 3.5 free throws a game which is the lowest since his rookie year.

The bottomline is the spurs needed a player like stephen jackson and they got RJ instead. RJ is not the kind of impact player that is going to consistently deliver. RJ's 29, going on 33.

Thanks for explaining yourself. IMO it was a bad trade. It's all on RJ, not on anyone else. RJ needs to step up. He can improve IMO. That's about the only point I don't agree with. He doesn't need Tim, Tony and Manu to be at their best for him to succeed, he just needs to actually give a fuck and STEP UP.

[murpjf88]

What's good Basileus?..



I'm off the RJ bandwagon after tonight, that was too disappointing..everybody else has already covered the rest..

I will say that it doesn't help that the Spurs are 26th in the NBA in fastbreak points and don't play to his style..you can blame whoever you want for that, but Jefferson has been the same player for 2 seasons before this one..the Spurs have a front office that is supposed to study the players they're going to acquire before the move is made..Jefferson hasn't declined from the past 2 years, he's the same guy..part of the reason he has disappointed is on him for his lack of intensity and fire, but the other part of the blame clearly goes to the FO..

Orlando got Vince Carter for example..Vince has disappointed, but for a different reason..he has disappointed because he's shooting horribly, but he's playing the same style as he always has(when it comes to shooting..they haven't used him as a playmaker though, so that part is different)..in Orlando, you can mostly blame Carter for his struggles and you can put a little blame on SVG..

RJ is disappointing for a different reason..he's the same player that he was for 2 years, he just doesn't fit here..so in SA, the blame goes on the front office more than anybody..

I once thought it was the FO and Pop fault for bringing him here. But, IMO, Pop and the FO truly believed that they were going to open the offense up, and get out on the fast break. RJ would have benefited big time, but things haven't worked out that way. The spurs haven't helped themselves with untimely TO's, which lead to fast breaks in the other direction.

[Spursfan 87]

The thing I hate about RJ is that he's soft and he is a quitter. If he's not scoring he takes himself out of the game. Does not play defense, does not rebounds. He is a loser. He does not have the desire or basketball IQ to be a Spur.

Last year Finley > This year RJ


The spurs should try to get rid of that contract. They should try trading RJ for Tmac, because at least he's a free agent after this season. Or you could try to trade him for Jamison, Butler or Iguadala, a real SF.

[ulosturedge]

I agree he needs to come with it every game and he isn't. Like someone else was getting at it does seem at times like he doesn't give a shit. At least thats how his game is looking. He needs to find a way to make an impact in the game regardless if he is getting touches or not. You can't put it all on him though. How can you get the guy going offensively when the offense is spread around so much? He knows he's a 4th option and in turn he plays like it...

[Allanon]

Problem is Jefferson has never been a very good perimeter spot up shooter.

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

[midnightpulp]

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is good at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

Would've loved Ariza. Spurs are in dire need of a perimeter defender.

I never really cared too much for RJ's game. Just another great athlete who happens to play basketball. He lacks the all around skill set that the true all-star wings possess.

When the news broke of RJ's coming to SA, I was pretty much indifferent.

[timtonymanu]

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

To be honest when the Spurs lost to Dallas, the number one transaction I wanted them to do was sign Ariza. But it was desperate times in San Antonio so when the Spurs got RJ instead, I was happy as hell. But now looking back I hope the Spurs should have just tried to get Ariza. If he said no, then the Spurs could have snatched RJ. Ariza is actually a good defender and he actually plays like he wants to win. RJ is so damn unmotivated and his contract is killer.

[Ice009]

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

Or as Ricky once said in The Trailer Park Boys "you can't fit a square hole in a round peg" ;) lol

[#2!]

RJ needs to play in a more uptempo offense. The spurs are too much standing around the perimeter and this does not play into RJs game.

He is deadly on the break in the open court. The spurs need to forget about always having to get into a structured offense and have some fun looking for easy fastbreak points and run at times. This will open up Jeffersons game in all areas and the confidence will come back. Jefferson is good, the spurs style of play is not.


The Spurs having been trying to get out on fastbreaks as much as I've ever seen them do so. The problem appears to be that the players just don't know how to break together.

Pop skips down the sideline waving his arms yelling "GO!GO!" and on the court a few players take off and end up crowded in the paint together dishing dangerous passes, and shooting contested shots.

It seems ubsurd to suggest an NBA team do fastbreak drills, but for the love of god San Antonio has the ugliest fastbreaks in the league. Even the ones that work like Manu's behind-the-back, or Hill's reverse layup vs LA were actually very poorly executed breaks.

[EricB]

You sign Ariza you have no money left over for another big, the big they needed in McDyess.

[BackHome]

I agree he was never a good fit for a half court team like ours. The years in New Jersey he had a pass first pg and they would run and he would have those open slams. You put him with a team that likes to fast break the Knicks or the Suns and you would see a whole different player.

Getting him would be like the Suns trying to get Blair it doesn't and didn't make sense.

[L.I.T]

The Spurs having been trying to get out on fastbreaks as much as I've ever seen them do so. The problem appears to be that the players just don't know how to break together.

Pop skips down the sideline waving his arms yelling "GO!GO!" and on the court a few players take off and end up crowded in the paint together dishing dangerous passes, and shooting contested shots.

It seems ubsurd to suggest an NBA team do fastbreak drills, but for the love of god San Antonio has the ugliest fastbreaks in the league. Even the ones that work like Manu's behind-the-back, or Hill's reverse layup vs LA were actually very poorly executed breaks.

Historically, the Spurs have not been a team that was on the fast break a lot, but they were a good fast break team. The fast break issues of today I believe are directly correlated to the injury to TP. He was always the primary guy in terms of leading fastbreaks, using his quickness in the open court to get good looks. With him hobbled who do we have leading those breaks? Hill is an athletic player and a great player in relation to his age and experience level; but a top-flight distributor he is not yet.

That and their defense is no longer the same, which limits their fast break opportunities. They were never a great defense at turning the ball over, but they were good at forcing bad shots, which could be turned into fast break opportunities.

[HarlemHeat37]

You don't have the money for McDyess, but you still have the contracts you traded for RJ + the expiring contracts of Bonner and Finley and scrubs..that's like 15 mil $ in expirings..

[Ice009]

You don't have the money for McDyess, but you still have the contracts you traded for RJ + the expiring contracts of Bonner and Finley and scrubs..that's like 15 mil $ in expirings..

We might have even had a better record right now if we kept those players and added Ariza and then we could have traded them all for a big upgrade.

[ulosturedge]

Hind sight is always 20/20. You can't do that lol. Would have loved to get Ariza too, but who knew there was going to be a fallout for Ariza with the Lakers. Isn't he a California native? Everything looked like he was gonna stay a Laker and get a nice pay raise. There is way too much risk hoping that small market San Antonio will be able to allure any players. I don't think we have a very good track record of alluring marquee players. We are hardly the #1 attraction around the NBA.

A crystal ball would have been nice. I still think we got more out of it then any of the alternatives. I just think the FO severely overpaid for it...

[hsxvvd]

Useless and vitually untradable now @ 14 mil.

Milwaukee got us on this one. I'd take Kurt & Oberto back for him tomorrow.

The only value Jefferson would have is if Manu, Parker and Duncan all got injured and he could score 20ppg on a losing team, like Dominique in the 96-97' season.

[objective]

You sign Ariza you have no money left over for another big, the big they needed in McDyess.

not just that, but no contract for Blair. Without reserving part of the MLE, Blair would have been on a two-year deal min deal if I remember right.

[temujin]

Jefferson is a looser, I wrote this the minute I saw him play the first time.

Can't pass, can't shoot, can't play defense.Soft looser.

On top, he has a low IQ. Basketball wise... Except when he is negotiating contracts.

This is another Butler: they will have to give away a good player (Splitter??) just to get rid of the guy.

In the meantime, play haislip.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jefferson is a looser, I wrote this the minute I saw him play the first time.

Can't pass, can't shoot, can't play defense.Soft looser.

On top, he has a low IQ. Basketball wise... Except when he is negotiating contracts.

This is another Butler: they will have to give away a good player (Splitter??) just to get rid of the guy.

In the meantime, play haislip.

You wrote all that, which is nice and all, but you ended it with "play Haislip" LOL..

[objective]

This is another Butler: they will have to give away a good player (Splitter??) just to get rid of the guy.



Splitter will probably be given away to get rid of someone a lot cheaper than RJ.

[Chieflion]

Jefferson is a looser, I wrote this the minute I saw him play the first time.

Can't pass, can't shoot, can't play defense.Soft looser.

On top, he has a low IQ. Basketball wise... Except when he is negotiating contracts.

This is another Butler: they will have to give away a good player (Splitter??) just to get rid of the guy.

In the meantime, play haislip.
Complaining about weak basketball IQ, then you want more Haislip. You mad? I saw RJ follow the system. Like Bowen, the forward stands in the corner on offense, the opposite side of the court away from the ballhandler. In the Spurs system, the small forward practically touches the ball last or never sees the floor. Screw the defense, Rudy Gay had a single digit outing and RJ only played 20 minutes (Yes, Rudy Gay, their co-leader in scoring only had 8 points). 6 shots for a volume scorer, granted he missed all of them, taking jumpers when he is open and the shot clock winding down. Play more RJ at small ball, sure that helps him a lot to play him out of position.

[senorglory]

I couldn't have imagined, before the start of this season, that it would be Jefferson and Parker holding the Spurs back. I certainly couldn't have predicted Jefferson averaging an anemic 12, 2, and 3 in 31 minutes. Noway did I foresee the Spurs having the number one bench, but a half-assed starting five, with a no-impact back court.

This NBA stuff is complicated.

I'm willing to give Jefferson the benefit of the doubt that he'll still pull it all together this season, but I'm skeptical that his poor performance so far can be attributed to system/style mismatch, or anyother aspect having to do with coaching or other personel-- because Jefferson basically does nothing either with or without the ball. he doesn't get after it when the ball ends up in his hands for the mostpart, notwithstanding hitting the game winner against the Thunder; nor does he work the glass, slip the back door cut, jam the passing lanes, dive after loose balls, or any of the other things NBA badasses often focus on when offense isn't going well. Aside from his minutes, RJ is putting up bench player numbers.

I wanna kick him in the balls. This would otherwise be a dream season for the Spurs.

[hsxvvd]

I couldn't have imagined, before the start of this season, that it would be Jefferson and Parker holding the Spurs back. I certainly couldn't have predicted Jefferson averaging an anemic 12, 2, and 3 in 31 minutes. Noway did I foresee the Spurs having the number one bench, but a half-assed starting five, with a no-impact back court.

This NBA stuff is complicated.

I'm willing to give Jefferson the benefit of the doubt that he'll still pull it all together this season, but I'm skeptical that his poor performance so far can be attributed to system/style mismatch, or anyother aspect having to do with coaching or other personel-- because Jefferson basically does nothing either with or without the ball. he doesn't get after it when the ball ends up in his hands for the mostpart, notwithstanding hitting the game winner against the Thunder; nor does he work the glass, slip the back door cut, jam the passing lanes, dive after loose balls, or any of the other things NBA badasses often focus on when offense isn't going well. Aside from his minutes, RJ is putting up bench player numbers.

I wanna kick him in the balls. This would otherwise be a dream season for the Spurs.

He is yet to prove he has any.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't know why people are expecting Jefferson to light on fire this year. Michael Finley and Brent Barry were similar acquisitions and both took over a year to really gel in the team.

Barry especially was tentative in his first year here and then got better and better in subsequent years. I see no reason as to why this could not be the case with Jefferson as well. We have seen it twice before.

I also think Jefferson needs to slim down a bit. He needs to be athletic on the wing and not bang in the post on both offense and defense. If he drops 5-10 lbs he is still going to see a ton of mismatches that he can post up and get the additional quickness I see him needing to play top end perimeter defense.

[jermaine]

You ever thought just maybe he's not happy here cuz he's not really an opt on offense or he's just use to having to score an now he's not he's just lost.

[murpjf88]

Jefferson is a looser, I wrote this the minute I saw him play the first time.

Can't pass, can't shoot, can't play defense.Soft looser.

On top, he has a low IQ. Basketball wise... Except when he is negotiating contracts.

This is another Butler: they will have to give away a good player (Splitter??) just to get rid of the guy.

In the meantime, play haislip.

I said that the minute they traded for him. I didn't need to see him play.

[Capt Bringdown]

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.


In which case the Spurs need to call Rudy T or que up some tapes of the '95 Rockets with Drexler and Hakeem.

It's not like RJ has to be a spot up shooter because we've got Duncan down low.

There are ways to play differently...right Pop?

[dastrey]

This guy was on Team USA and couldn't even make an impact. All that talent around him didn't even make him a better player. He is one of the reasons they didn't get the gold medal.

Unless he has a straight path to the basket, he is useless. How many times have we seen him drive to the basket and then is forced into an awkward pass when the defense rotates. He has no plan B. It isn't the system. I really think deep down inside he knows he isn't championship material. He even knows that the Big 3 realize that too. So he is going to continue to keep passing the ball and stay out of the way.

[spurs_philippines]

its still early... lets give RJ a chance... maybe in feb....

[wijayas]

For the pessimists, remember our beloved Spurs theoretically can still have a 67-15 record!

For the optimists, we can declare RJ experiment FAIL in all counts.

[Big P]

Why has he stopped attacking the rim....he was a slasher in NJ & Mil....we dont need another jump shooter. I have a feeling that Pop is starting to question whether or not he can fit in and contribute...I feel the same way.

[weebo]

Don't worry everybody. Once Mike Finely is all well, we'll see less of that no good sandbagging Jefferson.

[dbestpro]

There was a lot of smoke last year that RMJs game went to shit when Pop asked him to play out of position as the PG. No one seems to give the same take for RJ as Pop continues to try and run him at the PF. It is hard enough to come to a new team and learn your position. It is nearly impossible to be successful at two completely different positions.

[dastrey]

There was a lot of smoke last year that RMJs game went to shit when Pop asked him to play out of position as the PG. No one seems to give the same take for RJ as Pop continues to try and run him at the PF. It is hard enough to come to a new team and learn your position. It is nearly impossible to be successful at two completely different positions.

Pop has been doing everything he can to get Jefferson going. At the beginning of the season the first plays of the game were for RJ. He couldn't get going. The past couple of months RJ has done nothing at SF. Now Pop is giving him minutes at the PF spot to no avail. We are almost half-way through the season and RJ has had 1 great game. That is it. How many more excuses do we have to give the guy?

[ersinert]

Haislip? i watched him here ( in istanbul ) when he was playing for efes pilsen. he was doing nothing but punching people on their faces. ( google it, mirsad türkcan-marcus haislip, mirsad is the player who got punched, and he deserved it:)

[dbestpro]

Pop has been doing everything he can to get Jefferson going. At the beginning of the season the first plays of the game were for RJ. He couldn't get going. The past couple of months RJ has done nothing at SF. Now Pop is giving him minutes at the PF spot to no avail. We are almost half-way through the season and RJ has had 1 great game. That is it. How many more excuses do we have to give the guy?

Pop has had Jefferson all over the place all season long. This didn't just start a week ago. This team needs to be allowed to find its comfort zones and then allowed to stay their. The almight Jordan himself would have struggled if asked to do such things so why are you surprised when RJ does. ......and far as those plays being for RJ at the beginnig of the season, I guess someone forgot to tell TP.

[murpjf88]

Your making a jordan to jefferson comparison?

[doobs]

With Tim and McDyess and Manu being old and tired, you'd think RJ would have been one of the guys to step up his performance during the end of a 4-games-in-5-days stretch. (Along with Blair, Hill, and Parker.)

I guess not.

[dbestpro]

Your making a jordan to jefferson comparison?

Obviously the comparison was if a greater talent cannot do what a lesser talent can do then how do you expect the lesser talent to succeed. I bet you struggle with math, too.

[rascal]

I couldn't have imagined, before the start of this season, that it would be Jefferson and Parker holding the Spurs back. I certainly couldn't have predicted Jefferson averaging an anemic 12, 2, and 3 in 31 minutes. Noway did I foresee the Spurs having the number one bench, but a half-assed starting five, with a no-impact back court.

This NBA stuff is complicated.

I'm willing to give Jefferson the benefit of the doubt that he'll still pull it all together this season, but I'm skeptical that his poor performance so far can be attributed to system/style mismatch, or anyother aspect having to do with coaching or other personel-- because Jefferson basically does nothing either with or without the ball. he doesn't get after it when the ball ends up in his hands for the mostpart, notwithstanding hitting the game winner against the Thunder; nor does he work the glass, slip the back door cut, jam the passing lanes, dive after loose balls, or any of the other things NBA badasses often focus on when offense isn't going well. Aside from his minutes, RJ is putting up bench player numbers.

I wanna kick him in the balls. This would otherwise be a dream season for the Spurs.

Manu has also been playing like crap.

[Chieflion]

Just another case of fans making a scapegoat out of somebody. Manu has sucked. Tony has sucked. Richard has sucked. Dice has sucked. That makes about everyone. Now that Bonner and Finley are not the scapegoats, someone has to be the scapegoat because the Spurs lost. Instead on focusing on the declining Manu and Tony who has PF, the fans can play the blame game on RJ, because Dice was injured. Our biggest off-season acquisition in years has been "MIA", so to speak. Richard is now the scapegoat because Tony and Manu have three rings. When two of the core players has been MIA, how can the followers do well? The leaders have to step up and show some swagger. Another thing, Jefferson played about 21 minutes against the Grizzlies, he was far from the main reason why the Spurs lost. We may have to wonder why he only got that little minutes.

[Marcus Bryant]

Mahinmi will be the casualty for Splitter. RC better be right that Splitter's coming over this time. Then again, not being hamstrung by the rookie scale should make that a reality.

Otherwise, the Spurs will probably count on expiring contracts to check the payroll growth. As for Manu - based on this season, plus of course his health over the last couple of seasons, his next contract will be less. And there is the possibility he ends up elsewhere.

Still, Spurs should've exercised the option on Mahinmi. He'd be a better trade chip with an extra year left on his deal at a relatively low salary. And, of course, they should've given him some regular minutes to start the season to help his trade stock and, oh, to give him a chance to see what he could do and not do everything possible, it seems, to destroy the confidence of a young athletic big with his talent. This is Beno all over ago, except this time the player isn't a douchebag so it's much harder to cover for this screwup.

[murpjf88]

Obviously the comparison was if a greater talent cannot do what a lesser talent can do then how do you expect the lesser talent to succeed. I bet you struggle with math, too.

Jordan would succeed. He dominated everybody. Those two players aren't even in the same class. If Jordan failed at anything, it was his failure to get Washington into the post season, which wasn't his fault seeing as how he was their leading scorer. If your attempting to put Jordan in Jefferson's shoes, he could most certainly succeed where Jefferson has failed. Putting Jordan in the same sentence with Jefferson makes yourself sound stupid., unless of course, you were talking about Jordan Farmar, in which case, I apologize.

[Chieflion]

Jordan would succeed. Those two players aren't even in the same class. If Jordan failed at anything, it was his failure to get Washington into the post season, which wasn't his fault seeing as how he was their leading scorer. If your attempting to put Jordan in Jefferson's shoes, he could most certainly succeed where Jefferson has failed. Putting Jordan in the same sentence with Jefferson makes yourself sound stupid., unless of course, you were talking about Jordan Farmar, in which case, I apologize.
Do you even understand the meaning of that post? It means that any player of any calibre would have struggled outside their comfort zone and playing out of position.

[dastrey]

Just another case of fans making a scapegoat out of somebody. Manu has sucked. Tony has sucked. Richard has sucked. Dice has sucked. That makes about everyone. Now that Bonner and Finley are not the scapegoats, someone has to be the scapegoat because the Spurs lost. Instead on focusing on the declining Manu and Tony who has PF, the fans can play the blame game on RJ, because Dice was injured. Our biggest off-season acquisition in years has been "MIA", so to speak. Richard is now the scapegoat because Tony and Manu have three rings. When two of the core players has been MIA, how can the followers do well? The leaders have to step up and show some swagger. Another thing, Jefferson played about 21 minutes against the Grizzlies, he was far from the main reason why the Spurs lost. We may have to wonder why he only got that little minutes.


TP is playing terrible because he decided to play during the summer. Manu and Dice are getting old. Richard Jefferson should be in the prime of his career. There is no excuse for not stepping up when your team is banged up. At some point he has to sack up and show his worth. Stop passing the ball and make something happen! But he wont. He isn't capable of elevating his game. He can't play in a structured offense that has proven to win championships. You add Jefferson to the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, or Magic and you will get the same thing.

[Chieflion]

TP is playing terrible because he decided to play during the summer. Manu and Dice are getting old. Richard Jefferson should be in the prime of his career. There is no excuse for not stepping up when your team is banged up. At some point he has to sack up and show his worth. Stop passing the ball and make something happen! But he wont. He isn't capable of elevating his game. He can't play in a structured offense that has proven to win championships. You add Jefferson to the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, or Magic and you will get the same thing.
He played well when one of the big three or two of them were out, so I don't see your point. And passing the ball happens to be part of the offense. This is the Spurs' structured offense, the small forward standing in the corner, sometimes you can't make shit happen. RJ was just following orders. And Tony, Manu, Dice get a pass because of national team and being old? RJ should be the one feeling old. He has been playing huge minutes and night in and night out plays every game since a few seasons ago. I am actually suprised he has not shown visible signs that he has declined. That shows excellent work ethic to succeed to keep himself in shape and play every single game. I doubt he only shows up just to show up. His track record speaks for itself and we have people shitting on him and saying he sucks.

[murpjf88]

Do you even understand the meaning of that post? It means that any player of any calibre would have struggled outside their comfort zone and playing out of position.

Loud and clear. Jordan dominated everybody. It doesn't matter what position he was playing or who was guarding him. Jefferson can't handle any position he's played. Is he not in his comfort zone at SF? That's where he spent the most time throughout his career. This is another failed attempt to make another excuse for RJ's pathetic play. I'm not buying it. Were nearly halfway into the season, and if RJ isn't comfortable yet, he's not going to be.

[Chieflion]

Loud and clear. Jordan dominated everybody. It doesn't matter what position he was playing or who was guarding him. Jefferson can't handle any position he's played. Is he not in his comfort zone at SF? That's where he spent the most time throughout his career. This is another failed attempt to make another excuse for RJ's pathetic play. I'm not buying it. Were nearly halfway into the season, and if RJ isn't comfortable yet, he's not going to be.
He would have been if Pop didn't play him at PF half the damn time. Oh ya, I really want to see Jordan playing PF or C. I am sure he would have dominated. :wakeup

[murpjf88]

He would have been if Pop didn't play him at PF half the damn time. Oh ya, I really want to see Jordan playing PF or C. I am sure he would have dominated. :wakeup

Why would you convert arguably one of the best clutch shooters this game has ever seen to PF or C. Your making it sound like they put Rj at point guard.

[hitmanyr2k]

There was a lot of smoke last year that RMJs game went to shit when Pop asked him to play out of position as the PG. No one seems to give the same take for RJ as Pop continues to try and run him at the PF. It is hard enough to come to a new team and learn your position. It is nearly impossible to be successful at two completely different positions.

Good point. I honestly don't think it would matter who the Spurs brought to San Antonio. I can almost guarantee the Spurs coaching staff would find a way to make that player not play to his potential...by either limiting his minutes or having that player never be in a comfort zone because the idiot coach doesn't know how to put together a consistent rotation, etc. It's a pattern going on here. Brent Barry came in and had has confidence ruined. Spurs fans turned on him. Michael Finley came in..same deal, Spurs fans turned on him. Then Roger Mason went south, everyone turned on him. People on this board think Richard Jefferson should be making up for the lackluster play of his teammates who have been in the system for much longer while he's been in the system for about 2-3 months :lol The guy has been shuffled around in Popovich's Jekyll and Hyde lineups all year and he's supposed to know his role?

Offensively Jefferson is built to run in an uptempo system. Everyone knows this. The Spurs coaching staff knew this when they got him (if they didn't they're idiots). You would think they would incorporate plays in the offense to take advantage of his athleticism...back-cuts to the rim, guard-arounds, SOMETHING. Instead they're sticking with a slow-down game with an offense that's as predictable as sunshine in the Sahara. The team can't run a fast break to save their lives and that's going to be their downfall because they don't have the ability to manufacture easy points.

[temujin]

You wrote all that, which is nice and all, but you ended it with "play Haislip" LOL..



Did you resign as Jefferson's agent, or did he fire you?

Either way, Haislip, or Finley or that mater, could do what jefferson has done, only 13 millions' cheaper.

[temujin]

This guy was on Team USA and couldn't even make an impact. All that talent around him didn't even make him a better player. He is one of the reasons they didn't get the gold medal.

Unless he has a straight path to the basket, he is useless. How many times have we seen him drive to the basket and then is forced into an awkward pass when the defense rotates. He has no plan B. It isn't the system. I really think deep down inside he knows he isn't championship material. He even knows that the Big 3 realize that too. So he is going to continue to keep passing the ball and stay out of the way.

Exactly.
What did exactly happen to that Taem USA?

[Chomag]

Exactly.
What did exactly happen to that Taem USA?

I still get sick everytime just thinking about it. Could we please just not go there... please? lol

[temujin]

You know Spurs are in trouble when you have to hope that old Finley HAS to come back and play instead of the 14 millions dollar man.
At least Finley hits open jumpers more often than not.

[Spursfan 87]

Haislip at least have the balls to take some shots and be aggressive on offense, unlike an overpaid player i know.

Haislip in 4:26 min 4pts 3rebs 2-4FG
RJ in 20:46 min 3pts 1reb 1ast 0-6FG

[murpjf88]

Haislip at least have the balls to take some shots and be aggressive on offense, unlike an overpaid player i know.

Haislip in 4:26 min 4pts 3rebs 2-4FG
RJ in 20:46 min 3pts 1reb 1ast 0-6FG

Because Jefferson's job is secure, while Haislip still is out to prove himself. He knows if he isn't aggressive, he won't play. Its a completely different mindset for Haislip.

[TIMMYD!]

Because Jefferson's job is secure, while Haislip still is out to prove himself. He knows if he isn't aggressive, he won't play. Its a completely different mindset for Haislip.

Can't you still make the same argument who's being payed $14 million?

[murpjf88]

Can't you still make the same argument who's being payed $14 million?
Sure you can. But RJ's proven he can play. Obviously nobody's gonna offer him a 14 million dollar contract if he hadn't accomplished anything. Some GM grossly overestimated RJ's value because he's barely worth the MLE. Pop doesn't seem reluctant to pull him from the starting lineup and finley's return probably won't threaten that.

[Agloco]

but in all seriousness, I really dont know what's up with RJ. I dont know if it's his intensity, but he doesn't play with a sense of urgency.

This. He needs to play a lot smarter and more intense on both ends of the court. If I didn't know any better I'd say he has the look of someone who really doesn't want to be here, despite what he says.

[Agloco]

Because Jefferson's job is secure, while Haislip still is out to prove himself. He knows if he isn't aggressive, he won't play. Its a completely different mindset for Haislip.

If that's Jefferson's true mindset, we need to unload him ASAFP. I doubt it however. I think it's more of a case of not being comfortable with the personnel who surround him out there.

[Spursfan 87]

This. He needs to play a lot smarter and more intense on both ends of the court. If I didn't know any better I'd say he has the look of someone who really doesn't want to be here, despite what he says.


:tu:tu:tu

[bless1187]

the thing really bothering me about R. Jefferson is that he doesn't even look to attack on offense unless he's completely wide open... in terms of offensive aggressiveness... R. Mason, G. Hill, D. Blair are even looking for there own shots more than R. Jefferson. I really wonder if anyone on the coaching staff has gotten onto him about this.

[doobs]

RJ will continue log serious minutes until playoffs. That's why he's here: to keep Manu rested and healthy.

[rascal]

Good point. I honestly don't think it would matter who the Spurs brought to San Antonio. I can almost guarantee the Spurs coaching staff would find a way to make that player not play to his potential...by either limiting his minutes or having that player never be in a comfort zone because the idiot coach doesn't know how to put together a consistent rotation, etc. It's a pattern going on here. Brent Barry came in and had has confidence ruined. Spurs fans turned on him. Michael Finley came in..same deal, Spurs fans turned on him. Then Roger Mason went south, everyone turned on him. People on this board think Richard Jefferson should be making up for the lackluster play of his teammates who have been in the system for much longer while he's been in the system for about 2-3 months :lol The guy has been shuffled around in Popovich's Jekyll and Hyde lineups all year and he's supposed to know his role?

Offensively Jefferson is built to run in an uptempo system. Everyone knows this. The Spurs coaching staff knew this when they got him (if they didn't they're idiots). You would think they would incorporate plays in the offense to take advantage of his athleticism...back-cuts to the rim, guard-arounds, SOMETHING. Instead they're sticking with a slow-down game with an offense that's as predictable as sunshine in the Sahara. The team can't run a fast break to save their lives and that's going to be their downfall because they don't have the ability to manufacture easy points.

Wow, great post and well written.

[z0sa]

Wow, great post and well written.

+1

and let me add: our entire team's mentality is just foggy. What are our goals, defensively and offensively? I know Pop thinks this team can be one of the best defensively, but the personnel is lacking and our guys don't have the "all D, all the time" mentality. It's not as simple as "give the ball to #21 and hustle back on D" and hasn't been for years, but that was always the bottom line when things went south.

As weird as it sounds to type, I think Pop needs to come to grasp with reality by first taking the reins away from injured Tony Parker and secondly, rethinking his lineups and how important consistency is for players, especially players trying to come together with a new team's people and philosophies AND win a title by the end of the season.

[Agloco]

Good point. I honestly don't think it would matter who the Spurs brought to San Antonio. I can almost guarantee the Spurs coaching staff would find a way to make that player not play to his potential...by either limiting his minutes or having that player never be in a comfort zone because the idiot coach doesn't know how to put together a consistent rotation, etc. It's a pattern going on here. Brent Barry came in and had has confidence ruined. Spurs fans turned on him. Michael Finley came in..same deal, Spurs fans turned on him. Then Roger Mason went south, everyone turned on him. People on this board think Richard Jefferson should be making up for the lackluster play of his teammates who have been in the system for much longer while he's been in the system for about 2-3 months :lol The guy has been shuffled around in Popovich's Jekyll and Hyde lineups all year and he's supposed to know his role?

Offensively Jefferson is built to run in an uptempo system. Everyone knows this. The Spurs coaching staff knew this when they got him (if they didn't they're idiots). You would think they would incorporate plays in the offense to take advantage of his athleticism...back-cuts to the rim, guard-arounds, SOMETHING. Instead they're sticking with a slow-down game with an offense that's as predictable as sunshine in the Sahara. The team can't run a fast break to save their lives and that's going to be their downfall because they don't have the ability to manufacture easy points.


Wow, great post and well written.


+1



:tu

Yes very good post. I think Jeffersons' troubles are definitely linked to his having to play out of position, but beyond that he seems to not have any energy or intensity to boot. He's also very causal and sloppy with the ball on the offensive end. I'd at least like to see a hard foul from him, or something that gives me an indication that he's making an honest effort out there.

[spursncowboys]

Nash/Kidd would make him an all-star in their system. We should try and dump him for some d-league youth.

[timvp]

You would think they would incorporate plays in the offense to take advantage of his athleticism...back-cuts to the rimThey do
guard-aroundsThey do.
Instead they're sticking with a slow-down game This is the fastest paced team in the Tim Duncan Era. When the offense is flowing correctly and the defense is getting stops, this Spurs team gets out and runs.


Besides, offense hasn't been a problem with the Spurs this season. They were a top three offensive team in terms of efficiency prior to the last two games. More times than not, it's the defense that has caused the Spurs to lose games.

[pjjrfan]

What I see is a guy who just doesn't seem to have a drive to be the best on the floor. And when he is presented with clutch moments he seems to freeze, though, I will give him credit for that last shot against the thunder, but in the previous game against the thunder he also had a chance to win that game he came up with a huge steal then quickly froze, traveled and turned the ball back over. And in some games he starts off big but then the rest of the game he is a nonfactor. And on this road trip he seems to whine about all the bad things that happen to him. Earlier in the season he passed up a lot of good looks, he does settle for jumpers but then everyone seems to be doing that, not just now but the whole year. For whatever reasons, RJ has just also fallen into this pattern, of settling for jumpers and not attacking the rim. But like I said so has everybody else. His intensity is up and down, he'll make a great play but then he will fade out of the game. I'm just not sold on him or on McDyess, whom I had a lot of hope for seeing how he has done in the past coming around anytime soon to help this team out.
Still it's a long season and this team certainly has the potential to turn it around and do great things.

[Flux451]

They do They do. This is the fastest paced team in the Tim Duncan Era. When the offense is flowing correctly and the defense is getting stops, this Spurs team gets out and runs.


Besides, offense hasn't been a problem with the Spurs this season. They were a top three offensive team in terms of efficiency prior to the last two games. More times than not, it's the defense that has caused the Spurs to lose games.

This and the nonsensical turnovers committed. This always stops our momentum.

As far as defense. The word is out to attack Spurs with the intent of a juggernaut. Sometimes Spurs can only temporarily hinder the perpetual bleeding. But in the end, we look like an average defensive team. It has a lot of to do with focus, experience and intensity.

[lennyalderette]

Ron Artest at 5M or Dick at 14M, hmmmmmmmmmmm :lol
rj hasnt missed games, and has psychosis, so im sticking with rj. especially cuz your ron ron wants to be an mma fighter in the summer good luck with that, didnt he have this unexplainable blow to the head??? yeah no thanks, we dont play crackheads

[The Truth #6]

I'll agree with a lot of points: that RJ has sucked, that he needs to play in a more up tempo system because he either gets to the rim or surprisinlgy makes a good pass on the break (yes, we're scoring more points this year but we are a horrible fast break team), and that Pop tried to force him into the ill-suited Bowen sit in the corner role.

Pop is correct in that the team needs to play better defense but I still think the offense could improve in basic skills like passing and more generally having an overall identity. It still seems to me like Pop looks at the offense as a mystery and expects scorers to do their voodoo to succeed and all he has to do is put the ball in their hand and magic will happen.

But the main reason the Spurs suck this year is because of Tony and Manu, with Dice and RJ being culprits as well. People are making excuses for Tony, Manu, and Dice because they're either old or injured. Well, if people are going to blame RJ the most then he shouldn't be the number 4 option. In other words, if people want to put the majority of the responsibility on him for us failing, then he needs to be the number one option on offense, because it seems to me you can't honestly expect one thing without the other.

Am I saying RJ should be the number one option? Not necessarily, but if things get worse, reimagining the offense for a more up temp system would at least play into his strengths. In the meantime, RJ needs to get his head into the game because the season is slipping away.

It's funny, the coaches seem to love veterans but they don't seem to realize that veterans are just as hard to change as young players, if not more so. Our new veterans are so set in their ways, it seems like they would just as soon give up then try to adapt. RJ and Dice are guilty of this.

[senorglory]

Manu has also been playing like crap.

early in the season, no doubt, but now, a) getting hot; and 2) while offense is spotty, has been making it up with hustle, playmaking, defensive stops/ steals.

[senorglory]

While I dogged RJ a bit earlier in this thread because his incorporation into the Spurs has been underwhelming, to be clear, RJ is great All-Star calibre NBA player, with a respectable career, and plenty of game.

You're wrong if you think RJ is a "looser," or if you could imagine no way that RJ could have been a good acquisition for the Spurs this season. The disappointment comes from the high-expectations for this season, not because of actual poor performance by RJ, or the Spurs.

Yes, I said it, neither 1) RJ; nor 2) the Spurs, are performing poorly this season. Flame on!

[TIMMYD!]

yea idk but this whole season hes been a real bitch

[iminol]

no Jefferson, no problem? heh, i know. earlier it was no bonner no problem and no duncan no problem. so tough to imagine how will we start (first five) in playoffs.

[Truckules]

Jefferson has been a number one or two option for his entire basketball career. He is now the number three or four option. That is a big change in his role. I don't think he knows what he is here for, what his purpose is. In New Jersey and Milwaukee, he was a scorer. His role was easily defined. I honestly don't know what his role is here, and I don't think Pop does either. I do have confidence that he and Pop will figure it out though.

[Johnny RIngo]

While I dogged RJ a bit earlier in this thread because his incorporation into the Spurs has been underwhelming, to be clear, RJ is great All-Star calibre NBA player, with a respectable career, and plenty of game.

RJ was NEVER an All-Star calibre player. People keep saying this but it's simply not true. He's a fringe all-star at best.

[BackHome]

Stop blaming RJ the guy is like a square and we are trying to fit him in a round circle. The Spurs organization screwed up mightly by getting him he does not fit our style of basketball and anyone who has watched him play could have told you.

And what stupid organization is going to pay a guy 15 million to come in and onlyl play defense? I can understand if that person is a shot blocking, rebounding big...but a SF? STUPIDDDDD.

[SouthTexasRancher]

New system, needs the ball in his hands. I'm not worried. It's only January. When February comes around, RJ may surprisingly become the player we thought he was in the trade.


So when it's June and RJ is out fishing, you'll still say you're not worried because it's only June and October is just around the corner. Yeah, right. He and Dice have shown nothing, nada, zip. Blair is a rookie and he is making RJ & Dice look like they should be playing for The Little Sisters of Mercy girls Junior High team. There is a reason those two have never won a ring. Just listen to their after game interviews when we lose. There is no life in either. I feel bad for Peter Holt and Timmy. Both deserve a whole hell of a lot better than these two bums.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You would think at some point that people would understand that vets typically take time to adjust to the Spurs system.

Rasho, Ferry, McDaniels, Kerr, Oberto, Barry, and Finley all took time and became solid contributors after disappointing first seasons.

Claxton didnt come on until late but for every Kevin Willis you have about 5 other guys that took a good deal of time to get used to the Spurs game.

[senorglory]

you would think at some point that people would understand that vets typically take time to adjust to the spurs system.

Rasho, ferry, mcdaniels, kerr, oberto, barry, and finley all took time and became solid contributors after disappointing first seasons.

Claxton didnt come on until late but for every kevin willis you have about 5 other guys that took a good deal of time to get used to the spurs game.

+1

[HarlemHeat37]

I think people understand that, it's just that we're in panic mode since it was a huge move and it's the end of the Duncan era, so people want quick results..also, RJ was a better player than any of those guys at the time we acquired him, so there's also more pressure there too..

[SpurNation]

You would think at some point that people would understand that vets typically take time to adjust to the Spurs system.

Rasho, Ferry, McDaniels, Kerr, Oberto, Barry, and Finley all took time and became solid contributors after disappointing first seasons.

Claxton didnt come on until late but for every Kevin Willis you have about 5 other guys that took a good deal of time to get used to the Spurs game.

It would be interesting to see what each of those player's first year stats were (including Robert Horry) to see how RJ's performance is stacking up with their first year performances as a Spur.

I'd look into it now but have to run.

[Agloco]

Manu has also been playing like crap.


early in the season, no doubt, but now, a) getting hot; and 2) while offense is spotty, has been making it up with hustle, playmaking, defensive stops/ steals.

Manu isn't helping on the offensive end.....

Last three games:

3-9
3-10
4-11

That's a problem. And when you combine it with Dicky J:

0-6
3-7
5-12

It's an even bigger problem.

[Chieflion]

Ok, now for more explanation and research, I am going to dig out the stats from the 2008-2009 season when Jeferson was with the Milwaukee Bucks, which is also the 1st year he was with the Bucks. This is fair because it is the closest season to breakdown the flaws and the ridiculous hype in the pre-season that got people all so disappointed up till now.

In the 2008-2009 season

Richard Jefferson: 19.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.17 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% of 55.4%. Played 35.8 minutes per game. He takes 14.9 shots per game and converts on 43.9% on them. He also attempted 3.6 three point shots and converted 1.4 of them per game. He attempts 6.3 FTs and converts 5.1 FTs a game. Richard Jefferson did this in an injury-plagued season for the Bucks with Michael Redd and Bogut sidelined with injuries and being the focus of the offense. He also had a PER of 15.4.

In the 2009-2010 season up till now

Richard Jefferson: 12.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.64 steals, 0.33 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, TS% 55.6%. Played 31.1 minutes per game. He takes 9.9 shots a game, and converts on 47.2% of them. He attempts 2.6 three point shots a game and converts 0.9 of it for a percentage of 36%. He now attempts 3.5 FTs per game and converts on 2.5 FTs, good for 70.6%. Richard Jefferson is doing this as the 3rd best scorer of the team. He has a PER of 13.3.

Stats do not tell the whole story but Jefferson has not been getting to the line as often as he should, hurting his TS%, as he should be getting to the line more frequently, is this part of the Spurs offense? Is it due to the lack of touches? Stats say RJ has a usage rate of 24.6% in 2008-2009 and a usage rate of 19.3% with the Spurs. He is scoring more efficently than he did last season on a lower volume of shots. His defense has been average, same as when he was in Milwaukee. RJ also played lesser minutes in San Antonio.

Figure this out yourself.

Individual Spurs Offensive and Defensive Rating of The Big Three + RJ
Richard Jefferson has an Offensive Rating of 109, Defensive Rating of 106.
Tim Duncan has an Offensive Rating of 119, Defensive Rating of 100.
Tony Parker has an Offensive Rating of 107, Defensive Rating of 108.
Manu Ginobili has an Offensive Rating of 115, Defensive Rating of 103.

Are the Offensive Ratings/Defensive Ratings of all these four players indicative of their overall play? It looks like RJ has a positive impact on the court while Parker is a burden on the court. I don't think anyone believes these stats now and are going to shit on me for this but is this probably true? Does RJ help the Spurs on offense where they need it, even with his "crappy production"? I say yes. We have our best offensive small forward in the Duncan era and people are shitting on him because he is being paid big bucks. The Spurs did not sign him to that contract and if he does not have that contract, the Spurs would not have gotten him, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Agloco]

Jefferson ailing: Jefferson had a string of 232 consecutive starts snapped when he sat out Monday's game with back spasms.

Jefferson's back had been bothering him for a few days — which explains his 0-for-6 game Saturday at Memphis — but he didn't bring it up to the training staff until the fourth quarter of that game.

“You just watched him running, he looked bad,” coach Gregg Popovich said. “Finally, he owned up. I wish guys wouldn't try to be heroes. He could have told us earlier.”

Jefferson last sat out a game March 6, 2006, at Dallas while playing for New Jersey. He played all 82 games in each of the past two seasons.

Well, apparently there's your answer.

[rascal]

They do They do. This is the fastest paced team in the Tim Duncan Era. When the offense is flowing correctly and the defense is getting stops, this Spurs team gets out and runs.


Besides, offense hasn't been a problem with the Spurs this season. They were a top three offensive team in terms of efficiency prior to the last two games. More times than not, it's the defense that has caused the Spurs to lose games.


The spurs do not get out and run enough. 26'th in fast break points

[DAF86]

Individual Spurs Offensive and Defensive Rating of The Big Three + RJ
Richard Jefferson has an Offensive Rating of 109, Defensive Rating of 106.
Tim Duncan has an Offensive Rating of 119, Defensive Rating of 100.
Tony Parker has an Offensive Rating of 107, Defensive Rating of 108.
Manu Ginobili has an Offensive Rating of 115, Defensive Rating of 103.

How do you get the "defensive rating", lol at Duncan having the worst of all those players.

[Mel_13]

How do you get the "defensive rating", lol at Duncan having the worst of all those players.

The ratings are a calculation of points scored or allowed per 100 possessions that the player is on the court . So you want a high offensive number and a low defensive number. Duncan has the best numbers on both sides of the ball.

See here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2010.html

[superjames1992]

The hate Jefferson, Bonner, and Finley get on here is ridiculous and unwarranted. Meanwhile, guys like Hairston, Manhimi, and Haislip get their ass kissed for no reason. There's a reason why Pop plays RJ, Bonner, and Finley as opposed to the other guys...

[silverblackfan]

Well, the Finley hate I sometimes agree with... He is a professional and all, but I think we have better options on the bench now.

[DaBears]

When did the league change to where the team had to change to suit the player....When had a player become bigger than the team, RJ is not the best player on the team, nor is he the 2nd best or the 3rd best.. So given that the team doesnt need to make the adjustment its the player, he is not a all-star caliber player so he need to find a way to change his game up a bit to mesh with the team.. If he cant score in a game here or there so be it, but dame it get envolved in other ways get a rebound, steal, assist.
RJ to me seems to stand around the preimeter and hangout, when he does get the ball and actually drives alot of the time he gets stripped, and turns over the ball.. If he doesnt get the foul called he comlpains to the ref's, which is different than most players but he doesnt get back on defense( its as if he gives up)....

There is no place on a title contending team for quiters....Plain and simple....

[Truckules]

When did the league change to where the team had to change to suit the player....When had a player become bigger than the team, RJ is not the best player on the team, nor is he the 2nd best or the 3rd best.. So given that the team doesnt need to make the adjustment its the player, he is not a all-star caliber player so he need to find a way to change his game up a bit to mesh with the team.

So, Shaq should become a three-point shooter if that means he would mesh with his team? Steve Nash should become a post player if that means he would mesh with his team?

RJ should not change his game much if at all because his game is what he is good at. If you force a player to change his game, then he won't be as good as he used to be. The team has to meet him halfway, or at least a quarter of the way. Otherwise, it will take a while for a player to get used to the different skills he has to use in his new role.

[Chieflion]

How do you get the "defensive rating", lol at Duncan having the worst of all those players.
The higher the defensive rating, the worse the team is when the player is on the court. So Duncan has the best defensive rating. Ya, so before you call me out, please at least know about the stat. Through that, I also know that most people couldn't be bothered to read the whole post and see my explanation and only try to pinpoint my "mistakes", so to say. I now also know that numbers bolding have a huge effect on people and make them focus more on the section where there are most bolds.

[SpurNation]

What IS Jefferson's game. And shouldn't the powers at be when contimplating, signing and having him play on the team KNOW what his strengths and weaknesses were prior to investing SO MUCH?

He gets paid A LOT of money to only be expected to perform at a mediocre level. But then again...maybe he's only been mediocre his whole career compared to the expectations, hopes and contributions that his salary is comanding.

The only thing I can say is I'm jealous that someone can be paid so much for performing at a mediocre level compared to the salary they're garnishing.

[Johnny RIngo]

So SA went over the cap so they can get a player that's producing a fraction more than Mason did last year. Pathetic. I love the Spurs but I don't know if I'm gonna be able to stand watching pieces of crap like RJ and Dice play one more season with this team.

[baseline bum]

You would think at some point that people would understand that vets typically take time to adjust to the Spurs system.

Rasho, Ferry, McDaniels, Kerr, Oberto, Barry, and Finley all took time and became solid contributors after disappointing first seasons.

Claxton didnt come on until late but for every Kevin Willis you have about 5 other guys that took a good deal of time to get used to the Spurs game.

Huh? Kerr was awful his first 3 years. Ferry's first season was by far his best. Barry was definitely at his best his first season, especially in the Phoenix series. Finley was an incredible sub his entire first season and first playoffs in San Antonio, but never did much after.

[alidanis]

He's prolly the most overpaid player in the league. Why did we get him in the first place... His contract blows