Role in Haiti

[spursncowboys]

So what is our role in reconstructing Haiti? Are we to build a nation? Help make the situation to where it was before the Earthquake?
What are our goals? Do social issues come into it too, like equality for woman, child labor, drugs, child prostitution?
What is our time length?
Will we supply doctors? For how long?
SHould we try and make it into something that will benefit America (bases, naval ports, more tourist friendly)?

[Marcus Bryant]

Why exactly are we concerned about nation-building again? How are we suddenly back to 1999?

[Winehole23]

So what is our role in reconstructing Haiti? Are we to build a nation? Help make the situation to where it was before the Earthquake? Precocious. Nobody's discussing reconstruction yet, let alone nation building. That isn't the aim of anything happening right now.


What are our goals? Do social issues come into it too, like equality for woman, child labor, drugs, child prostitution?They do in Afghanistan and did, briefly, in Iraq.


What is our time length? US involvement in Haiti didn't start last week. Good God, please go read some history on the subject. We meddled in Haiti directly and indirectly for most of the 20th century, and for most of the 19th, Haiti labored under a US-British embargo.


Will we supply doctors? For how long? A better question would be how long have we already been supplying such assistance. History, my man. Are you allergic to it?


SHould we try and make it into something that will benefit America (bases, naval ports, more tourist friendly)?It's probably enough for us that US forces have more or less unrestricted coming and going privileges.

[spursncowboys]

Precocious. Nobody's discussing reconstruction yet, let alone nation building. That isn't the aim of anything happening right now.

They do in Afghanistan and did, briefly, in Iraq.

US involvement in Haiti didn't start last week. Good God, please go read some history on the subject. We meddled in Haiti directly and indirectly for most of the 20th century, and for most of the 19th, Haiti labored under a US-British embargo.

A better question would be how long have we already been supplying such assistance. History, my man. Are you allergic to it?

It's probably enough for us that US forces have more or less unrestricted coming and going privileges.

When you assume you make an ass out of you and... well just you. Don't assume.

[Cry Havoc]

Now now, winehole, don't go confusing SnC with your fancy book-learnin'.

[Cry Havoc]

When you assume you make an ass out of you and... well just you. Don't assume.

:lmao

You clearly had no concept of the situation before. You even admitted that you haven't read or done any research on Haiti in another thread, based upon your criticism of Winehole for having done so.

He just completely took apart your thread in the 2nd response. Be a man for a change and admit it instead of ridiculing people.

[spursncowboys]

So we should be in Haiti to help? For what exactly? CNN cooper was talking about doctors will need to be there for a long time because of the medical attention for amputees and head trama cases. So should we be there for immediate assistance and help or for rebuilding? I didn't mean to assume nation building but just think that is the way it will go. If we have responsibility to help them and give refuge to them, it won't be long until the 'nation building' term comes up.

[spursncowboys]

Now now, winehole, don't go confusing SnC with your fancy book-learnin'.

Cute. Hey so did you watch robin hood today? Steal anyones wallet and give it to the poor?

[Cry Havoc]

So we should be in Haiti to help? For what exactly? CNN cooper was talking about doctors will need to be there for a long time because of the medical attention for amputees and head trama cases. So should we be there for immediate assistance and help or for rebuilding? I didn't mean to assume nation building but just think that is the way it will go. If we have responsibility to help them and give refuge to them, it won't be long until the 'nation building' term comes up.

People are dying by the minute in Haiti, and you're concerned with our nation's long term goals in the area.

And you wonder why people on the forum call you callous and detached.

[Cry Havoc]

If someone disagrees with me I ridicule them with bizarre analogies.

[spursncowboys]

:lmao

You clearly had no concept of the situation before. You even admitted that you haven't read or done any research on Haiti in another thread, based upon your criticism of Winehole for having done so.

He just completely took apart your thread in the 2nd response. Be a man for a change and admit it instead of ridiculing people.

No I didn't admit anything like that. I never said anything like that. Way to cheerlead, not only every liberal, but "conservative" winehole.

[spursncowboys]

cryhavoc: what have you done for the help of haitians? What have you sacrificed to aid people? How many lives have you saved? How many months did your family go without contact from you so you could help people? How many bodies have you had to pile up, or pile the pieces up? You don't know the first thing of being attached to a situation, or of sacrifice. Sit at home in your comfortable heated house typing on a computer about what help people should do. While your at it go on google and try and find the soldiers, sailors and marines who are going there to actually help and STFU. Then check your wanted ads for woman who need things done while their husband is actually helping.

[Winehole23]

Way to cheerlead, not only every liberal, but "conservative" winehole.If expressing that direct US disaster aid to Haiti is the correct political response is cheerleading, then I'm guilty as charged.

It's the right fucking thing to do, politically and morally. I couldn't give a shit about the political orientation of the other "cheerleaders".

[baseline bum]

I can't believe Winehole is being effectively labelled a liberal here.

[Winehole23]

I consider it progress. He used to call me a Marxist.

[Spursmania]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8460185.stm

The long history of troubled ties between Haiti and the US


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47121000/jpg/_47121418_haiti_2004_466.jpg President Jean-Bertrand Aristide accused the US of ousting him in 2004

By Vanessa Buschschluter
BBC News, Washington
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif

When US President Barack Obama announced that one of the biggest relief efforts in US history would be heading for Haiti, he highlighted the close ties between the two nations.

"With just a few hundred miles of ocean between us and a long history that binds us together, Haitians are our neighbours in the Americas and here at home," he said.
Hundreds of thousands of Haitians have indeed become neighbours of Americans.

Some 420,000 live in the US legally, according to census figures. Estimates of the number of Haitians in the country illegally vary wildly, from some 30,000 to 125,000.
It is a sizeable diaspora which wants to see quick and decisive action from its adopted homeland.

Desperate to see aid getting through to friends and relatives, many expatriate Haitians have welcomed President Obama's decision to send up to 10,000 troops to help rescue efforts.
Historically though, US military deployments to Haiti have been controversial to say the least, and ties have often suffered.

Shared history

Both countries were born out of a struggle against European colonisers.
The US declared independence from Britain in 1776 - the first to do so in the Western Hemisphere - followed by Haiti, which broke away from France in 1804.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif Haiti is a public nuisance at our door http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Alvey A Adee, US Assistant Secretary of State 1886-1924

But there the similarities end. While the American War of Independence was driven by a white elite unwilling to - among other things - continue paying taxes to its colonial masters, the Haitian revolution was led by a freed slave, Toussaint Louverture.

The existence of a nation of freed slaves to the south became an inspiration for slaves in the US, and a thorn in the side of many Southerners who relied on slavery for their economy.

The animosity of some of the Southern states towards Haiti soured relations between the two nations for decades and played a big part in delaying its official recognition by the US until 1862, 58 years after its independence.
But Haiti's geographical proximity to the US and its strategic location in the Caribbean sparked the interest of American administrations.

Strategic interest
In the 19th Century, it was eyed as the location for a potential naval base.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47121000/jpg/_47121045_louverture_getty_226b.jpg
Toussaint L'Ouverture became an icon for the abolitionist movement

US leaders also feared foreign occupation of the island at a time when European powers were trying to expand their sphere of influence.
In 1868, President Andrew Johnson suggested the annexation of the whole island of Hispaniola - present-day Haiti and the Dominican Republic - to secure a US presence in the Caribbean.

His suggestion was not followed, but American warships were active in Haitian waters 17 times between 1862 - when the US finally recognised Haiti's independence - and 1915, when it occupied the country.
Assistant Secretary of State Alvey Adee summed up the US view of Haiti in 1888 when he called it "a public nuisance at our door".

Tumultuous history
In the following decades, Haiti would only become more of a headache to its big neighbour.

Between 1888 and 1915, no Haitian president completed his seven-year
term.

Ten were killed or overthrown, including seven in the four years to the US invasion of 1915. Only one died of natural causes.
In 1914, President Woodrow Wilson took control of the Haitian National Bank by sending in marines, who removed $500,000 of its reserves "for safe-keeping" in New York.

The assassination of the Haitian president a year later finally prompted President Wilson to invade Haiti with the aim of protecting US assets and preventing the further strengthening of German influence in the region.
After failing to make the new Haitian legislature adopt a constitution which would allow foreign land ownership, the Wilson administration forced the legislature to dissolve in 1917. It would not meet again until 1929.
The US finally withdrew from Haiti in 1934 as part of President Franklin Roosevelt's "Good Neighbour Policy", which stressed co-operation and trade over military force to maintain stability in the Americas.

Duvalier era
Many Haitians fled to the US during the political repression under Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier and his son Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier.
At first, the US government welcomed the refugees, but as the numbers swelled and boatloads of Haitians arrived on the South Florida coast in the 1970s and 1980s, this attitude changed to a policy of intercepting boats at sea and returning those on board to Haiti.
After decades dominated by dictatorships and coups, democracy was restored in 1990 when Jean-Bertrand Aristide was elected in a popular vote.
The ousting of President Aristide by a military regime in 1991 led to a new wave of Haitians headed for the US.

Military deployments
Faced with increasing chaos just south of its shores and an ever-growing stream of refugees arriving on - and often sinking off - Florida's shores, President Bill Clinton sent a US-led intervention force to Haiti in 1994.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47121000/jpg/_47121047_clinton_aristide_ap_226b.jpg
The Clinton Administration intervened to restore President Aristide to power

A last-minute deal brokered by former President Jimmy Carter allowed the troops to go ashore unopposed by the Haitian military and police.
Constitutional government was restored and Mr Aristide returned to power.
US troops left after two years - too soon, some experts argue, to ensure the stability of Haiti's democratic institutions.
Jean-Bertrand Aristide stayed in power until 1996, and was re-elected in 2000.

While he enjoyed the support of the Clinton administration during his first term of office, allegations of corruption and links to the drugs trade during President Aristide's second term made for a rocky relationship with Washington.

After an uprising against President Aristide in 2004, US forces returned to Haiti, this time to airlift him out of the country.

Mr Aristide accused the US of forcing him out - an accusation the US rejected as "absurd".
With the crisis averted, US interest in Haiti lessened. A UN-led mission took over from US troops in June 2004 and continues to be present there.

'American leadership'

The election of President Obama and the nomination of Bill Clinton to the post of UN envoy to Haiti, combined with a period of relative political stability, led to a strengthening of US-Haitian ties.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47121000/jpg/_47121419_obama-cabinet_afp_226b.jpg
President Obama said he would make the relief efforts in Haiti a priority

Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who spent their honeymoon in Haiti, have long taken an interest in the country.
President Obama has enlisted their help, alongside that of former President George W Bush, to help drive fundraising for Haiti.

Speaking on Thursday, President Obama said that this was "one of those moments that calls out for American leadership".
This US intervention, he stressed, would be "for the sake of our common humanity".

[Winehole23]

You're a goddam liberal cheerleader, Spursmania.

[TeyshaBlue]

I can't believe Winehole is being effectively labelled a liberal here.

Fucker's a dyed in the wool socialist, I tell ya!:lmao:lmao

[Winehole23]

BTW, thanks for posting that, Spursmania. SnC probably wouldn't ever have found out on his own.

[Wild Cobra]

Fucker's a dyed in the wool socialist, I tell ya!:lmao:lmao

Na...

He just likes being a whine-hole.

[Winehole23]

I like my wine. You'll get no cavil from me on that.

[Winehole23]

BTW, is Hilary Clinton's fat ass still blocking the tarmac in Port au Prince?

[TeyshaBlue]

I like my wine. You'll get no cavil from me on that.

Socialist.....Sommelier....what's the difference?:lol:toast

[Wild Cobra]

I like my wine. You'll get no cavil from me on that.
Ever have any Oregon wines from Dundee?

You know anyway, I was just playing with youre name...

Wine...

Whining...

But you probably like wining and dining...

[symple19]

BTW, is Hilary Clinton's fat ass still blocking the tarmac in Port au Prince?

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

LOL. I mean. Damn.

"Conservatives" such as the OP see socialism in any foreign policy or humanitarian effort, but are otherwise cool with spending however many billions or trillions invading a country and then, gasp, engaging in nation-building.

Put terrorism on it and it's pure Americana. Of course the Founding Fathers were all for Imperialism. Well, other than the empire they defeated and the governing mechanisms they put in place to prevent another empire.

You're not a real "conservative" unless you smoke the Military-Industrial Complex's pole.

[Winehole23]

Off topic, but Oregon wines fucking rock.

[Marcus Bryant]

Unless it's leading a relief effort in the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere (and in your own backyard). Then let's worry about aid, nation-building, or whatever.

[Winehole23]

http://dnj.netx.net/view/0170/p_17030.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Then again, Thomas Jefferson didn't have his own radio show.

[Spursmania]

Off topic, but Oregon wines fucking rock.

The have vastly improved in the last decade or so. Quite comparable to California wines now. But nowhere near the European french wines that still are magnificent.:toast

[Wild Cobra]

BTW, is Hilary Clinton's fat ass still blocking the tarmac in Port au Prince?
No, I think she left. Probably left a deep imprint in that tarmac now that the planes have to avoid.

I was complaining about Bill Clinton going back. I think it was innapropriate for him and President Bush to go in the first place. They cannot really do anything unless they plan on getting their hands dirty. The security, leaving a large plane at the airport, etc, slowing down relief is my gripe. Then i was appauled when president Clinton stayed there. You know these aristiocrats park their planes while they are their, taking up needed space.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wanna know how to kill the momentum from the GOP wins in Virginia, New Jersey, and Massachusetts(!)? Harp on Haiti as some kind of sneaky socialist project.

[Winehole23]

You know these aristiocrats park their planes while they are their, taking up needed space.Hilary went down there on a C-130 full of disaster aid, dummy.

[Marcus Bryant]

Had it been Gates he'd be jacking off right now.

[spursncowboys]

If expressing that direct US disaster aid to Haiti is the correct political response is cheerleading, then I'm guilty as charged.

It's the right fucking thing to do, politically and morally. I couldn't give a shit about the political orientation of the other "cheerleaders".

No Cryhavok in every instance will cheerlead the libs. Not just this subject. Also I never called you a liberal. I don't think you are a liberal. I think you are an idiot. I think you wake up every morning think "how can I be more pretentious than the day before?"

[Marcus Bryant]

I mean, motherfucker. The moment it looks like the GOP has pulled its head from out of its ass, some "conservatives" decide to pick on aid to a bunch of poor black people. Are you retarded, motherfuckers? Fuck this, I'm going to see what grape juice I have downstairs (damn you WH).

[Wild Cobra]

Hilary went down there on a C-130 full of disaster aid, dummy.
That's different. Have you seen me speak ill of her at all in this topic?

Again, I was refering to Bill. I didn't know the title "president" fit her. Besides, I also said president Bush didn't need to be there too... Didn't I?

My comment about leaving an imprint war refering to her "fat ass" that you used.

[spursncowboys]

WHo is picking on aid to a bunch of poor black people?

[Winehole23]

I think you are an idiot. Coming from you, that's quite an honor. I can't think of a higher one in the category.


I think you wake up every morning think "how can I be more pretentious than the day before?"Just being myself, chief. If it's not your cup of tea, feel free to ignore my posts. I won't miss you.

[Wild Cobra]

I think you are an idiot. I think you wake up every morning think "how can I be more pretentious than the day before?"
You know WH, I think he has a point. I wouldn't call you an idiot though.

[Winehole23]

WHo is picking on aid to a bunch of poor black people?You. You resent "other people's money" being used for it.

[Winehole23]

You know WH, I think he has a point. I wouldn't call you an idiot though.I don't dumb myself down for this forum. Well, not very much, anyway. So sue me.

[spursncowboys]

I find it pretty hypocritical for all the real conservatives to be against any kind of foreign policy which will create a better living; a more secure nation (us and theirs); fulfill our commitment to our enemies and allies; and create more jobs and an open market. Then be completely ok with an open check to aid a country. I am completely ok with helping the haitians. However what is our role? What are we going there for. I know you guys don't care about that, and that has alot to do with your detachment. You won't be going over there. Soldiers want to know this. To alot on here, there is no trade off. You will not spend your own money( having to buy generic and cut off cable to help the hatians for example). Your family will not have to worry if your unit is going there. You all are worse than people not doing anything because you think you are doing something.

I thought the way we aided in Indonesia was a good role for us.

[spursncowboys]

I don't dumb myself down for this forum. Well, not very much, anyway. So sue me.

You are like joe biden. Takes forever and when done, you feel like you wasted your time.

[Winehole23]

I find it pretty hypocritical for all the real conservatives to be against any kind of foreign policy which will create a better living; a more secure nation (us and theirs); fulfill our commitment to our enemies and allies; and create more jobs and an open market. Then be completely ok with an open check to aid a country.You beg the question that our foreign policy is some kind of utopia that enhances our prosperity, security and free trade all at the same time, in the face of considerable evidence it doesn't, and then you prop up a strawman to improve the looks of your off the rack ideological cheerleading.

A very typical SnC post.


I am completely ok with helping the haitians.You express it oddly.

[Winehole23]

You are like joe biden. Takes forever and when done, you feel like you wasted your time.If you find reading too tiresome, please do something else.

[Marcus Bryant]

Here we go, the president and his party are reeling from the elections over the last few months. Instead of using that expression of popular will after the last full year of bitching about this administration, you decide to make an issue out of one of the few things this administration has done that is popular. It's like you fuckers aren't happy unless the GOP is out of power and we're staring at the Great Society II. Who gives a fuck about one-thousandths of a percent of the federal budget?

Or, throw the SOB an anvil, not a lifeline. Duh.

[Winehole23]

Are you retarded, motherfuckers?The posters still trying to make political hay out of humanitarian aid to Haiti probably aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.

[Winehole23]

It's like you fuckers aren't happy unless the GOP is out of power and we're staring at the Great Society II.I get this feeling too. Yonivore is a good example of wishing for the worst to prove his own convictions. For a lot of so-called conservative posters, health care reform not passing would be a sort of disaster.

[Yonivore]

I get this feeling too. Yonivore is a good example of wishing for the worst to prove his own convictions.
Wishing for Obama's "progressive" agenda to fail isn't a good example of "wishing for the worst." In fact, I would argue it's the best that could happen.


For a lot of so-called conservative posters, health care reform not passing would be a sort of disaster.
No, it wouldn't.

At this point, doing nothing is better than anything the Democrats have proposed. Period.

Republicans have forwarded a number of ideas that have been rejected out of hand.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nope. Worst is allowing Obama to get off the canvas, dust himself off, and then point out that his critics are worried about helping out a bunch of poor black people with a trifling amount of the federal budget.

Damn. I was thinking ten months was too long for the GOP not to fuck this up. Looks like it was ten minutes instead.

[Yonivore]

Nope. Worst is allowing Obama to get off the canvas, dust himself off, and then point out that his critics are worried about helping out a bunch of poor black people with a trifling amount of the federal budget.
What would you suggest and, by the way, the cost of Obamacare isn't "trifling."


Damn. I was thinking ten months was too long for the GOP not to fuck this up. Looks like it was ten minutes instead.
Again, what would you have Republicans do at this point?

[Winehole23]

Topicality, Yoni. MB was referring to disaster aid.

[Marcus Bryant]

What would you suggest and, by the way, the cost of Obamacare isn't "trifling."


No shit. Helping some poor Haitians is.





Again, what would you have Republicans do at this point?

Fucking enjoy the photo ops and hug him tighter. We're all Haitians now. Etc.

[Marcus Bryant]

Topicality, Yoni. MB was referring to disaster aid.

R O F L. And the true objection emerges.

[clambake]

lol, now he's an expert on indonesia.

[Winehole23]

...(off the mark)

[Cry Havoc]

Nope. Worst is allowing Obama to get off the canvas, dust himself off, and then point out that his critics are worried about helping out a bunch of poor black people with a trifling amount of the federal budget.

I certainly wouldn't hold that many republicans in the House or Senate are against sending aid to Haiti. I thought that even the most staunch "conservatives" on this board would be unanimously in favor of that... how wrong this forum continues to prove me. :lol

[Winehole23]

R O F L. And the true objection emerges.Yoni has trouble paying attention. Unfortunately, this makes it almost impossible to keep him on task.

[balli]

lol at the 3rd page of this thread.

[Yonivore]

No shit. Helping some poor Haitians is.
I'm not complaining about aid to Haiti. And, I think Rush Limbaugh is a jackass for inferring that we've done enough already.

I do agree with the comment that this president factors politics into everything he does, everything. But, that aside, I think sending aid to Haiti was a foregone conclusion - politics aside.

He'll take the kudoes, though. That is, if he can show his administration is handling it better than Katrina; over which, you may recall, President Bush was vilified -- even though the root cause of that disaster was the diversion of Corp of Engineers funds away from Levee maintenance by local governments and the unfortunate failure of those levees 2 days after Katrina cleared New Orleans and everyone thought a bullet had been dodged.

Democrats didn't cut Bush any slack for missteps occurring in the face of unforeseeable circumstances. Don't expect Obama's critics to do the same. And, by comparison, the Bush administration's response to the Indonesian tsunami was, by far, more organized and immediate than what Obama's doing in Haiti.


Fucking enjoy the photo ops and hug him tighter. We're all Haitians now. Etc.
I just hope he's doing something down there. It seems U.S. aid has been slow in getting to Port au Prince.

But, I've not paid that close attention. And, it seems, the media is playing up the problems over the successes...so, who's to say how things are going down there.

[Marcus Bryant]

Now's not the time to worry about Obama getting a free pass on Haiti(!).

The GOP just won in Massachusetts(!).

[Winehole23]

So now Obama is bungling relief. Good thing for Haiti the rest of the world is responding too.

[Yonivore]

Yoni has trouble paying attention. Unfortunately, this makes it almost impossible to keep him on task.
I was responding to your post and I though MB was responding to mine. My bad.

If you look back, I think you can see how that might have happened. You generalized the conversation by suggesting...


I get this feeling too. Yonivore is a good example of wishing for the worst to prove his own convictions.
and...


For a lot of so-called conservative posters, health care reform not passing would be a sort of disaster.
My bad for immediately assuming MB was responding to my post, I'll try to do better. But, you're the one that got off topic. Besides, I've never wished for anything but grace, mercy, and relief for the Haitian people, after the earthquake.

This is one instance where I hope the Administration is successful and I don't care if Obama gets political points for doing so.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm not complaining about aid to Haiti. And, I think Rush Limbaugh is a jackass for inferring that we've done enough already.

:tu


I do agree with the comment that this president factors politics into everything he does, everything. But, that aside, I think sending aid to Haiti was a foregone conclusion - politics aside.

That's nothing new for a president to see everything from a political viewpoint. In fact, can you name a president in the last 50 years who did not?


He'll take the kudoes, though.

Like the props you're giving Bush for his response to the tsunami?


That is, if he can show his administration is handling it better than Katrina; over which, you may recall, President Bush was vilified

Bush certainly didn't receive the most criticism. That was directed at the mayor and the head of FEMA -- whom Bush appointed even though he had absolutely NO relevant experience. It was a buddy-buddy promotion that might have slipped through the cracks without a disaster on the scale of Katrina.


-- even though the root cause of that disaster was the diversion of Corp of Engineers funds away from Levee maintenance by local governments and the unfortunate failure of those levees 2 days after Katrina cleared New Orleans and everyone thought a bullet had been dodged.

For starters, it certainly wasn't two days later. It was less than 24 hours after the hurricane hit that the levees began to fail. But we had known about the possibility of a hurricane wiping out NOLA since the 60s -- in fact, it happened once prior to Katrina. Every president who did NOT build the levee that was recommended by virtually every head meteorologist shares the blame for Katrina.


Democrats didn't cut Bush any slack for missteps occurring in the face of unforeseeable circumstances.

You mean an entire city being destroyed less than three years after 9/11?


Don't expect Obama's critics to do the same. And, by comparison, the Bush administration's response to the Indonesian tsunami was, by far, more organized and immediate than what Obama's doing in Haiti.

I'm gonna need a source on this. Indonesia has more than one working airport though, so it's expected aid would be able to arrive more quickly.




I just hope he's doing something down there. It seems U.S. aid has been slow in getting to Port au Prince. But, I've not paid that close attention. And, it seems, the media is playing up the problems over the successes...so, who's to say how things are going down there.

The media is doing exactly what it needs to get ratings. But as I said in another thread, I have a close friend who is a native of Haiti. She has been in contact with their immediate family, and at the moment, there is very little that is good in that country right now. People cannot even re-enter their homes even if they survived the quake, because aftershocks could bring the building down if they try to enter it. So they must sleep outside, usually on the ground that just destroyed their home. To put it bluntly, they have little solace and precious little real help yet.

[Winehole23]

Socialist.....Sommelier....what's the difference?:lol:toastVive la difference. :toast

[Winehole23]

If you look back, I think you can see how that might have happened. You generalized the conversation by suggesting...


and...I can sort of see it. Fair enough.



My bad for immediately assuming MB was responding to my post, I'll try to do better. But, you're the one that got off topic. Besides, I've never wished for anything but grace, mercy, and relief for the Haitian people, after the earthquake.

This is one instance where I hope the Administration is successful and I don't care if Obama gets political points for doing so. :toast

[angrydude]

we should give everyone in Haitai 200,000 dollars and say, good luck. It'd end up being cheaper than what is going to happen.

[Winehole23]

Times 10,000,000 Haitians. That's $2 quadrillion dollars. Math fail.

[Winehole23]

Seriously, you'd give a man in a shattered country, who needs water, food, fuel and medical care a cash kiss-off and be done with it?

That is seriously angry, internetz tough guy.

[Winehole23]

People are dying as we speak, and you're worried about the cost of helping out. Unbelievable.

[Winehole23]

I guess I was foolish for believing this thread had already reached it's nadir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir).

[Spursmania]

You're a goddam liberal cheerleader, Spursmania.

Come on...:lol

[Wild Cobra]

Times 10,000,000 Haitians. That's $2 quadrillion dollars. Math fail.
But the democrats could say "Look how caring we are."

[Winehole23]

So what, WC?

[Cry Havoc]

But the democrats could say "Look how caring we are."

Irrelevant statements FTW!

[boutons_deux]

How the Red Cross Raised Half a Billion Dollars for Haiti *and Built Six Homes

In late 2011, the Red Cross launched a multimillion-dollar project to transform the desperately poor area, which was hit hard by the earthquake that struck Haiti the year before. The main focus of the project — called LAMIKA, an acronym in Creole for “A Better Life in My Neighborhood” — was building hundreds of permanent homes.

Today, not one home has been built in Campeche. Many residents live in shacks made of rusty sheet metal, without access to drinkable water, electricity or basic sanitation. When it rains, their homes flood and residents bail out mud and water.

The Red Cross received an outpouring of donations after the quake, nearly half a billion dollars.

The Red Cross says it has provided homes to more than 130,000 people. But the actual number of permanent homes the group has built in all of Haiti: six.
After the earthquake, Red Cross CEO Gail McGovern unveiled ambitious plans to “develop brand-new (http://www.press.org/news-multimedia/news/red-cross-chief-executive-outlines-haiti-relief)communities.”

None has ever been built.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes?utm_source=et&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter&utm_content=&utm_name= (https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes?utm_source=et&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter&utm_content=&utm_name=)

[CosmicCowboy]

The only way to fix Haiti is to line their current ruling class up against the wall and shoot them. It's black on black crime on a country wide scale. That is the ONLY way to fix that shithole. Hell, the Dominican Republic on the same fucking island is doing just fine because they aren't run by a bunch of corrupt assholes.

[m>s]

Shut the fuck up shithead jewtons it isn't our place to provide for all the third world people of the world.

[boutons_deux]

The only way to fix Haiti is to line their current ruling class up against the wall and shoot them. It's black on black crime on a country wide scale. That is the ONLY way to fix that shithole. Hell, the Dominican Republic on the same fucking island is doing just fine because they aren't run by a bunch of corrupt assholes.

rightwingnut blaming the victims.

Haiti has been fucked by French and USA for 200 years, which includes hiring corrupt Haitians who you want to shoot to enable their dirty business.

[CosmicCowboy]

rightwingnut blaming the victims.

Haiti has been fucked by French and USA for 200 years, which includes hiring corrupt Haitians who you want to shoot to enable their dirty business.

:lmao

You ignorant fuck. Aristide was a Priest with a net worth of $75 when he was elected President and he had a net worth of 800 million when he was overthrown.

[boutons_deux]

:lmao

You ignorant fuck. Aristide was a Priest with a net worth of $75 when he was elected President and he had a net worth of 800 million when he was overthrown.

you stupid redneck fuck, read up on Haiti's history, and where did his $800M come from?

[CosmicCowboy]

you stupid redneck fuck, read up on Haiti's history, and where did his $800M come from?

black on black crime, boo.

Is what it is.

So why did the Dominican Republic on the very same island not get screwed up?

[boutons_deux]

black on black crime, boo.

yep, blame the victim for being fucked for 200 years by USA and France.

Pro publica has great expose of US Red Cross raising $500M for Haiti earthquake, promising many 1000s of home, has built ... 6! :lol

Other orgs actually have built 1000s of homes, water, sewer, etc


So why did the Dominican Republic on the very same island not get screwed up?

try: different history.

[CosmicCowboy]

yep, blame the victim for being fucked for 200 years by USA and France.

Pro publica has great expose of US Red Cross raising $500M for Haiti earthquake, promising many 1000s of home, has built ... 6! :lol

Other orgs actually have built 1000s of homes, water, sewer, etc



try: different history.

Identical colonial occupation. Try again.

Haiti is just a third world African nation dropped into the Carribean.

[boutons_deux]

Identical colonial occupation. Try again.

Haiti is just a third world African nation dropped into the Carribean.

not exactly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic#European_colonization

DR has oscillated back and force between Spain and France, while Haiti was French then independent, then DR and Haiti became enemies. Quite different. Go to DR and tell them they are just Haitians with Spanish instead of Frenc names.

USA has diddled in both countries deeply and longly, replacing dictators with dictators to US liking (and financial corruption support)