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duncan228
01-20-2010, 05:44 PM
I tried to format it so scanning was easy. Hope it helped.

SI.com's NBA All-Star Picks (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/01/20/west.all.star.picks/index.html)

The fans' selections for All-Star Game starters will be revealed Thursday night. The coaches' reserve choices will be announced Jan. 28. Which players deserve a trip to Dallas for the Feb. 14 midseason showcase? Four SI.com NBA writers make their picks below. For the starting lineup, the writers chose players at the position at which they're listed on the official ballot. For reserves, writers were given more leeway -- -- just as the coaches are in rounding out the rosters with two guards, two forwards, a center and two wild-card picks. (All stats and records are through Tuesday.)


WESTERN CONFERENCE STARTERS

GUARD

Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers
11 career All-Star appearances
PPG RPG APG SPG
28.3 5.2 4.5 1.8

Ian Thomsen: Kobe Bryant. The ruthlessness that used to be viewed as Bryant's weakness is now acclaimed as the source of strength that drives the Lakers to defend their championship. For years it was assumed that he couldn't lead a team, but now his teammates thrive in his shadow. It's a close race for MVP with LeBron James, but Bryant has earned the early lead by keeping the Lakers No. 1 while making sense of Ron Artest's arrival and Pau Gasol's absences.

Jack McCallum: Kobe Bryant. Broken finger. Back spasms. Fatigue. The man just plays on and on and on. All-Star weekend will offer the predictable opportunity for endless would-you-rather-have-Kobe-or-LeBron stories, but until the Cav has fingers on his rings, make mine Mamba.

Chris Mannix: Kobe Bryant. No debate here as Bryant retains his title as the most dominant two-guard in the league. How good is he as a closer? The Lakers have led going into the fourth quarter 31 times this season. They haven't lost yet.

Paul Forrester: Kobe Bryant. Like Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson before him, Kobe gets the starting nod here until he decides he doesn't want it. Even more impressive than Kobe's on-court accomplishments is the complete career rehab he has made since his sexual-assault case six years ago.


Steve Nash
Phoenix Suns
5 All-Star appearances
PPG APG FG% FT%
18.7 11.1 53.8 94.2

Ian Thomsen: Brandon Roy, Portland Trail Blazers. The Blazers' horrid run of injuries has forced Roy to confront and reveal his potential, not only as a top 10 scorer but also as a calming leader who has kept his young team in the playoff race while trying to find a place in the offense for newcomer Andre Miller. If the Blazers can place enough firepower around him, he now looks like capable of leading them to a championship someday.

Jack McCallum: Steve Nash. Oh, this is a tough one. I'll take Nash over the Hornets' Chris Paul based mainly on the fact that Paul missed eight games with his ankle injury. And you know what? Deron Williams or Jason Kidd could run your All-Star team pretty well, too, and one of them doesn't even make my squad.

Chris Mannix: Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns. His numbers are virtually identical to what he put up during his two MVP seasons -- how can he not be the starter? Chris Paul gives him a run, but the injury absence cost him.

Paul Forrester: Steve Nash. Incredibly, Nash has dialed up the best offense of his career at age 35. That's in addition to operating the league's highest-scoring attack.


FORWARD

Dirk Nowitzki
Dallas Mavericks
8 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG APG FG%
25.5 8.0 2.6 47.8

Ian Thomsen: Dirk Nowitzki. He is approaching the high standard of his 2006-07 MVP season. Nowitzki has positioned the Mavericks to become the No. 2 team in the West while draining those unguardable fadeaways from the top of the key and beyond.

Jack McCallum: Dirk Nowitzki. He gets any kind of look at the basket and I think it's going in. Period. Nowitzki remains limited defensively, but he's still the choice in a really crowded position.

Chris Mannix: Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets. 'Melo staves off a hard-charging Kevin Durant for this spot. Dwight Howard sold me on this one; Howard said recently that if forced to choose among Anthony, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, he's taking Carmelo.

Paul Forrester: Dirk Nowitzki. He may not be the vocal leader many seem to want him to be, but he's quietly taken greater responsibility for the Mavericks' mind-set, chastising teammates for taking bad shots and running the wrong plays.


Tim Duncan
San Antonio Spurs
11 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG BPG FG%
20.0 10.4 1.9 55.2

Ian Thomsen: Tim Duncan. The steadiest star of the new millennium, Duncan lost weight over the summer without diminishing his bottom line. As impressive as it is to see him continue to fill every column of the box score, it is his 3.1 assists per game that showcases his exceptional talent for coming to the aid of teammates. At 33, he is a marvel.

Jack McCallum: Tim Duncan. As usual, it's easy to forget about Mr. Fundamental. But he's so consistently good that he consigns the league's leading scorer, Carmelo Anthony, to the bench.

Chris Mannix: Tim Duncan. Tons of competition for this spot (most notably Dirk Nowitzki), but this has been a renaissance year for Duncan, whose scoring and shooting percentage are both up from last season even though he's playing less.

Paul Forrester: Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder. Guess we and a few others were wrong about that whole Greg Oden debate, eh? Durant has upped his numbers across the board while also sparking the turnaround of a defense that ranks second in opponents' field-goal shooting.


CENTER

Amar'e Stoudemire
Phoenix Suns
4 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG BPG FG%
20.8 8.8 0.8 56.1

Ian Thomsen: Amar'e Stoudemire. He leads surprising Phoenix in points, rebounds and shooting percentage in pursuit of a new contract. With Yao Ming sidelined and Tim Duncan listed as a forward, Stoudemire becomes the only center with star appeal in the West -- albeit as a power forward who has morphed to the pivot. When Shaq looks back over his shoulder, he surely cannot believe what has become of his old conference.

Jack McCallum: Amar'e Stoudemire. The Suns' man-child has been solid as he puts together his fourth consecutive season of at least 20 points and eight rebounds. He's also improved his defense, though why he is not a truly formidable shot-blocker remains a mystery.

Chris Mannix: Chris Kaman, Los Angeles Clippers. I had no choice but to vote Duncan as a forward, his position on the ballot; on the other hand, I can choose not to acknowledge Amar'e Stoudemire as a center. Kaman is the best choice here for the West and he's not even on the All-Star ballot. With Blake Griffin sidelined, Kaman has helped keep the Clippers afloat.

Paul Forrester: Marc Gasol. The Grizzlies lead the NBA in points in the paint thanks in part to Gasol, who ranks second in the league in shooting. Pau's little brother has helped balance out a Grizzlies-Lakers trade for which Memphis was lambasted throughout the league.


WESTERN CONFERENCE RESERVES

Ian Thomsen: Welcome to four newcomers: Deron Williams and Kevin Durant are obvious picks; Chris Kaman belongs based on his 20.4 points and 9.4 rebounds (and, yes, I know that pick isn't consistent with my preference for stars on winning teams, but the 18-22 Clippers' recent four-game losing streak had everything to do with Kaman's absence); and Zach Randolph has been a frontcourt leader for the surprising Grizzlies. Those who are more inclinded to select players from losing teams may consider the Warriors' exciting Monta Ellis, but the West coaches are more likely to make room for Pau Gasol, who isn't on my list because of his extended trouble with injuries.

G Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
G Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
G Deron Williams, Utah Jazz
F Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets
F Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
F Zach Randolph, Memphis Grizzlies
C Chris Kaman, Los Angeles Clippers


Jack McCallum: Players such as Carlos Boozer, Jason Kidd and Rudy Gay didn't make my roster, and all of them might've been All-Stars in the East. Plus, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant can make a case to start. Pau Gasol might've made it had he not missed so many games with a hamstring injury, and his younger brother, Marc, wouldn't have been a bad backup pick. Zach Randolph, previously a candidate only for the all-knucklehead team, and Chris Kaman, who was injured most of last season, are having great years.

G Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
G Brandon Roy, Portland Trail Blazers
G Deron Williams, Utah Jazz
F Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets
F Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
F Zach Randolph, Memphis Grizzlies
C Chris Kaman, Los Angeles Clippers


Chris Mannix: Only one Laker? I know, but who could Pau Gasol replace? Kevin Durant? He is a fraction of a point away from being the NBA scoring leader. Amar'e Stoudemire? He's having a similar statistical season to Gasol but has played in 18 more games, and I need him at center. Zach Randolph? He's the biggest reason for Memphis' turnaround. Carlos Boozer (19.0 points, 10.6 rebounds in 41 games) might have a stronger case to make than Gasol, but both are victims of the West's frontcourt depth.

G Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
G Brandon Roy, Portland Trail Blazers
G Deron Williams, Utah Jazz
F Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
F Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
F Zach Randolph, Memphis Grizzlies
C Amar'e Stoudemire, Phoenix Suns


Paul Forrester: Chris Paul is a given, and Deron Williams should be as well. Brandon Roy has kept the injury-plagued Blazers together and remains the best off-guard in the West not named Kobe. Tyreke Evans, the Rookie of the Year favorite, has fast-forwarded the Kings' rebuilding project. Carmelo Anthony seems determined to remind people why he was the No. 3 pick in 2003. Tim Duncan has done more with fewer minutes than Amar'e Stoudemire. It's impossible to ignore how well Randolph has fit in Memphis.

G Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
G Brandon Roy, Portland Trail Blazers
G Deron Williams, Utah Jazz
G Tyreke Evans, Sacramento Kings
F Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets
F Zach Randolph, Memphis Grizzlies
C Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs

*********************

EASTERN CONFERENCE STARTERS

GUARD

Dwyane Wade
Miami Heat
5 career All-Star appearances
PPG RPG APG SPG
27.2 4.8 6.2 1.9

Ian Thomsen: Dwyane Wade. He isn't quite the intimidating presence he was last year, but let's not take Wade for granted: He leads Miami in points, assists, steals and, at 6-foot-4, ranks No. 2 in blocks. No guard in the East comes close to rivaling his impact.

Jack McCallum: Dwyane Wade. There's an undesirable part of Wade's game that I've just begun to really notice: He's a bad three-point shooter (29.2 percent) and he probably takes too many of them (3.3 per game). But if he stays in one piece -- that's a big if -- he's a guaranteed All-Star for at least the next half-dozen years.

Chris Mannix: Dwyane Wade. Wade's numbers have dipped slightly across the board from last season, but his body continues to hold up (he hasn't missed a game) and he is still a one-man force propping up Miami in the playoff race.

Paul Forrester: Dwyane Wade. If his high production is a step down from last year's otherworldly numbers, the Heat will gladly take it. Along with LeBron, Wade is the only player in the 2010 free-agent class who can single-handedly turn around a franchise.


Joe Johnson
Atlanta Hawks
3 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG APG FT%
21.3 4.9 4.8 83.3

Ian Thomsen: Joe Johnson. So controversial was the expensive 2005 sign-and-trade for Johnson that it fractured the Hawks' ownership, leading to a court fight that has yet to be resolved. But Johnson's $70 million contract was a strong investment. His leadership skills have improved each year, culminating (for the moment) in the underfunded Hawks' rise to No. 3 in the East. Johnson creates for others but isn't afraid to take and make the biggest shots himself. A real star.

Jack McCallum: Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics. You think it was easy becoming a leader with personalities as strong as Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett around? Plus, the kid's a terrific defender, not that that means anything in an All-Star Game.

Chris Mannix: Joe Johnson. The most overlooked superstar in the league -- and I don't care how many times we say it, it's still true -- is having his usual productive season. The difference is that Atlanta, with Jamal Crawford coming off the bench, is now a legitimate title contender. Johnson deserves recognition for that.

Paul Forrester: Rajon Rondo. Rondo's growing leadership, along with his play at both ends of the court, has kept the Celtics running relatively smoothly while nagging injuries have scrambled the rest of the lineup. Boston's Big Three now has a fourth.


FORWARD

LeBron James
Cleveland Cavaliers
5 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG APG FG%
29.6 7.2 7.8 51.0

Ian Thomsen: LeBron James. He continues to lead at both ends of the floor, shooting a career-high percentage from the field and helping the Cavs rank No. 3 in field-goal defense. James and Kobe Bryant will be fighting over the MVP award again, followed possibly by a best-of-seven series for the most important trophy of them all.

Jack McCallum: LeBron James. If James ever plays for a team on which he can get his scoring down to, say, 23 a game so he can truly become a point guard in the Magic mold, he could come close to the Oscar Robertson triple-double-season standard.

Chris Mannix: LeBron James. It seems almost effortless for him to put together that stat line. Now if he would only enter the dunk contest ...

Paul Forrester: LeBron James. Kobe may be better in the clutch, but no one has a greater impact on a game than the reigning MVP. And to think he hasn't even hit his prime.


Chris Bosh
Toronto Raptors
3 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG APG FG%
23.8 11.1 2.0 52.3

Ian Thomsen: Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics. Chris Bosh has the better numbers, but consider this: For 11 months now, Pierce has been driving the depleted Celtics (without a healthy Kevin Garnett) to remain the No. 2 team in the East. He is a gamer true to the Celtics' tradition, whether helping to guard the best opponent, creating for teammates or taking on the big plays. Garnett will earn more votes from fans and Bosh will do better in fantasy leagues, but neither star deserves to start ahead of Pierce this year.

Jack McCallum: Chris Bosh. He probably wouldn't be starting if Kevin Garnett had been healthy, but he's a reliable scorer and gets every rebound he should, so he's a deserving choice. But why can't I love him with my whole heart? Maybe he needs to pop somebody with an elbow once in a while.

Chris Mannix: Chris Bosh. Bosh was already good. Contract-year Bosh is better. He leads the league in double-doubles (30) and his numbers are up in virtually every major offensive category.

Paul Forrester: Josh Smith, Atlanta Hawks. He's finally stopped trying to be a three-point shooter and is focusing on his strengths: driving into the paint, working the offensive glass and wreaking havoc on defense. It's why the Hawks have graduated from wannabe to actual contender.


CENTER

Dwight Howard
Orlando Magic
3 All-Star appearances
PPG RPG BPG FG%
17.0 13.1 2.5 60.5

Ian Thomsen: Dwight Howard. He has been attempting three fewer shots per game while making room in the offense for Vince Carter, but Howard continues to be the league's dominating presence in the paint and on the boards while keeping Orlando within reach of a return to the NBA Finals. Unless Yao Ming makes an Ilgauskas-like recovery from his latest foot surgery to create a rivalry, the 24-year-old Howard looks like he'll be the NBA's No. 1 center well into his 30s.

Jack McCallum: Dwight Howard. He may be the most limited offensive player in history who's fun to watch, which isn't, I suppose, much of a compliment. But this much is certain: Besides LeBron and Kobe in the West, Howard is the easiest starting pick.

Chris Mannix: Dwight Howard. Even if Howard didn't score -- and his numbers are down from last season as he tries to figure out how to play with Vince Carter -- he's a shoo-in for defense alone. The reigning Defensive Player of the Year leads the NBA in rebounds, blocks, and where-is-he? looks from penetrating guards (too many to count).

Paul Forrester: Dwight Howard. He may not enjoy the nightly muggings from opponents, but Howard should take it as a measure of respect -- and desperation -- other teams feel when facing him. Once he starts countering those measures more than complaining about them, the league is in for even more trouble.


EASTERN CONFERENCE RESERVES

Ian Thomsen: The toughest decisions included omitting Kevin Garnett, who has been either sidelined by or recovering from knee injuries, and choosing Ray Allen over Vince Carter (doomed by his 38.6 percent shooting). Rajon Rondo is a sure thing as the best point guard in the East, while Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace are more than worthy. With 11 franchises near or below .500 -- I have a hard time awarding players from losing teams -- this becomes the weakest All-Star team I can remember. Chris Bosh is the only reserve who could compete for a spot in the superior conference.

G Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
G Ray Allen, Boston Celtics
G Mo Williams, Cleveland Cavaliers
F Chris Bosh, Toronto Raptors
F Josh Smith, Atlanta Hawks
F Gerald Wallace, Charlotte Bobcats
C Al Horford, Atlanta Hawks


Jack McCallum: No Kevin Garnett? Too many injuries. I never thought I'd be putting Josh Smith on an All-Star team, but his talent seems at last to have surpassed his wildness. Antawn Jamison is probably the least-known productive player of the last decade, Gerald Wallace has the Bobcats above .500 and David Lee has gone to the next level. It hurts not to put Shaq on this team, but he is dividing the Cavs' center position with Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I know the fans want Allen Iverson to start, but I'd rather see rookie Brandon Jennings (who admittedly has struggled lately).

G Joe Johnson, Atlanta Hawks
G Brandon Jennings, Milwaukee Bucks
F Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics
F Josh Smith, Atlanta Hawks
F Gerald Wallace, Charlotte Bobcats
F Antawn Jamison, Washington Wizards
C David Lee, New York Knicks


Chris Mannix: Paul Pierce has been Paul Pierce, KG's All-Star status has never been about the numbers and Rajon Rondo's dynamic offensive season nudges him past Ray Allen on Boston's depth chart. Gerald Wallace's scoring (18.5 points) and spike in rebounding (up nearly four per game from last season, to 11.3) earn him a spot. David Lee is too consistent to overlook. Al Horford gets a nod for manning the middle on a division leader.

G Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
G Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
F Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics
F Gerald Wallace, Charlotte Bobcats
F David Lee, New York Knicks
F Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics
C Al Horford, Atlanta Hawks


Paul Forrester: Chris Bosh was the hardest name to leave off the starting squad, but Josh Smith has had a greater impact with the Hawks, who still will go as far as Joe Johnson takes them. Antawn Jamison hasn't saved the Wizards, but he's been a model stretch power forward while offering a sane voice in the Washington wilderness. Speaking of sanity, any All-Star game without Paul Pierce may not have any. Gerald Wallace is finally seeing his underrated efforts go toward a playoff push in Charlotte. David Lee shows up every night for the Knicks. Derrick Rose has gradually regained the form that he showed in last season's playoffs against the Celtics.

G Joe Johnson, Atlanta Hawks
G Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
F Chris Bosh, Toronto Raptors
F Antawn Jamison, Washington Wizards
F Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics
F Gerald Wallace, Charlotte Bobcats
C David Lee, New York Knicks

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 05:54 PM
Kobe just carrying a scrub-All-Star-less team to the best record in the NBA. :hat

namlook
01-20-2010, 06:01 PM
I guess Kobe really is doing it alone. He doesn't even have an all-star playing with him now according to all these guys.

Gutter92
01-20-2010, 06:04 PM
21blessings, is that really the way to thank Pau for the 'chip last year?

fevertrees
01-20-2010, 06:08 PM
No T-Mac? :nope

ffadicted
01-20-2010, 06:12 PM
I guess Kobe really is doing it alone. He doesn't even have an all-star playing with him now according to all these guys.

Pau just hasn't played enough this year to get tossed in there in front of Duncan, Melo, Durant, Nowitzki, and Randolph

Findog
01-20-2010, 06:15 PM
Dumb lists. Amare is not an All Star. I don't care how the ballot is formatted, make Duncan the C.

My list:

C: Duncan
PF: Dirk
SF: Melo
SG: Kobe
PG: Paul

Reserves: Nash, Roy, Durant, Gasol, Kaman, Landry, Deron

East

C: Howard
PF: Bosh
SF: LeBron
SG: Joe Johnson
PG: Wade

Reserves: Horford, Pierce, Jamison, G. Wallace, Lee, Josh Smith, Rose

Findog
01-20-2010, 06:15 PM
Lakers are 21-3 when Gasol plays. :wow

Rip-Hamilton32
01-20-2010, 06:18 PM
no way Mo Williams deserves it

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 06:36 PM
Lakers are 21-3 when Gasol plays. :wow

21-3 when they have their full starting lineup? What a shock.

badfish22
01-20-2010, 06:40 PM
Lakers are 21-3 when Gasol plays. :wow

21-3 when they have their MVP? What a shock.

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 06:44 PM
Lakers = number 1 defensive rating with Gasol missing 17 games and Ron 5 :wow

Darthkiller
01-20-2010, 06:51 PM
lol @ tyreke evans over durant . how does that guy have a job.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 06:51 PM
Dumb lists. Amare is not an All Star. I don't care how the ballot is formatted, make Duncan the C.

My list:

C: Duncan
PF: Dirk
SF: Melo
SG: Kobe
PG: Paul

Reserves: Nash, Roy, Durant, Gasol, Kaman, Landry, Deron


:lmao did Amare sleep with your mom or something? How the hell does a 20 point, 9 rebound player who's the leading scorer on a playoff team deserve it less than someone putting up 16 points and 6 rebounds on a team with basically the same record?

Xylus
01-20-2010, 06:54 PM
:lmao did Amare sleep with your mom or something? How the hell does a 20 point, 9 rebound player who's the leading scorer on a playoff team deserve it less than someone putting up 16 points and 6 rebounds on a team with basically the same record?

Findog is the biggest Amare hater on these boards, though I'm not sure how you justify putting Landry ahead of Stoudemire.

Findog
01-20-2010, 06:58 PM
:lmao did Amare sleep with your mom or something? How the hell does a 20 point, 9 rebound player who's the leading scorer on a playoff team deserve it less than someone putting up 16 points and 6 rebounds on a team with basically the same record?

Landry is the best player on his team and can play defense, two things you can't say about Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''e.

Findog
01-20-2010, 07:01 PM
I despise Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e, so I can leave him off my ballot for whatever bullshit reasons I want. I can't stand Just Don't Get It players, and Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e is the classic Just Doesn't Get It player. Carmelo used to be one, but I think he's turned a corner. Landry is the opposite of a Just Doesn't Get It player.

iggypop123
01-20-2010, 07:10 PM
:lmao did Amare sleep with your mom or something? How the hell does a 20 point, 9 rebound player who's the leading scorer on a playoff team deserve it less than someone putting up 16 points and 6 rebounds on a team with basically the same record?

wasnt amare voted in? that is their only excuse. otherwise i dont know.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 07:21 PM
I despise Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e, so I can leave him off my ballot for whatever bullshit reasons I want. I can't stand Just Don't Get It players, and Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e is the classic Just Doesn't Get It player. Carmelo used to be one, but I think he's turned a corner. Landry is the opposite of a Just Doesn't Get It player.


Since the Suns will apparently be so good if Amare ever rebounded or played defense, explain how they went below .500 in January when Amare averaged double figure rebounding for the month? The amount of hate/blame Amare gets is ridiculous, he's held to these KG/Olajuwon standards on defense yet everyone is ok with Nash, Hill, Barbosa, J-Rich and Frye all being just as bad/worse than Amare on D.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 07:26 PM
Findog is the biggest Amare hater on these boards, though I'm not sure how you justify putting Landry ahead of Stoudemire.


Yeah, it's funny how he never criticizes Dirk for not starting to play D till he was 27 yet Amare is 27 and just starting to play D yet he's basically Judas for not being an annual DPOY his entire career up until this point.

Hornets1
01-20-2010, 08:04 PM
Dumb lists. Amare is not an All Star. I don't care how the ballot is formatted, make Duncan the C.

My list:

C: Duncan
PF: Dirk
SF: Melo
SG: Kobe
PG: Paul

Reserves: Nash, Roy, Durant, Gasol, Kaman, Landry, Deron

East

C: Howard
PF: Bosh
SF: LeBron
SG: Joe Johnson
PG: Wade

Reserves: Horford, Pierce, Jamison, G. Wallace, Lee, Josh Smith, Rose

Very Good list Finny!:toast As much as I love Landry's game, I'd sub Amar'e or Randolph(never thought I would say this).

Johnny RIngo
01-20-2010, 08:39 PM
I guess Kobe really is doing it alone. He doesn't even have an all-star playing with him now according to all these guys.

Nice try but Pau's injuries are what might keep him out of the all-star game. He'll still make an All-NBA team.

Allanon
01-20-2010, 08:42 PM
Only 1 All Star on the league-leading Lakers.

Lakers have been over-achieving.

Allanon
01-20-2010, 08:48 PM
Ironically, Marc Gasol is mentioned twice as a possible All Star yet his brother is a unanimous shut-out.

Who got ripped off in the Marc Gasol/Pau Gasol trade again? :lol

Chieflion
01-20-2010, 08:51 PM
Ironically, Marc Gasol is mentioned twice as a possible All Star yet his brother is a unanimous shut-out.
Can't blame them. Pau was out for quite some games. He is not going to get voted in by the fans, so he won't be voted in by the coaches who select the players based on production, team record and games played. And the forwards depth is stacked in the West.

For Marc, all he needs to do is collect 15/10 every game and he will get recognition.

Allanon
01-20-2010, 08:56 PM
Can't blame them. Pau was out for quite some games. He is not going to get voted in by the fans, so he won't be voted in by the coaches who select the players based on production, team record and games played. And the forwards depth is stacked in the West.

For Marc, all he needs to do is collect 15/10 every game and he will get recognition.

In every game Pau missed, he was more useless than Sasha Vujacic.

Pau doesn't deserve to be an All Star and he won't be.

Marc Gasol, just a matter of time before he's better than Pau and a perennial All Star himself.

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 08:57 PM
For Marc, all he needs to do is collect 15/10 every game and he will get recognition.

Huh? Actually Marc has been Memphis' best overall player. Best adjusted +/- on the team and he's a much better defender than Z-Bo.

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 08:59 PM
Collusion MY ASS :lol

Chieflion
01-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Huh? Actually Marc has been Memphis' best overall player. Best adjusted +/- on the team and he's a much better defender than Z-Bo.
You are comparing a real center to a power forward. And of course he is better defender than Z-Bo. How many centers do we have in the West anyway? Stoudemire, Kaman, Bynum, and Marc himself? It is easy to get "recognition" with such weak competition for an all-star spot.

Allanon
01-20-2010, 09:02 PM
Collusion MY ASS :lol

This.

cobbler
01-20-2010, 09:02 PM
Since the Suns will apparently be so good if Amare ever rebounded or played defense, explain how they went below .500 in January when Amare averaged double figure rebounding for the month? The amount of hate/blame Amare gets is ridiculous, he's held to these KG/Olajuwon standards on defense yet everyone is ok with Nash, Hill, Barbosa, J-Rich and Frye all being just as bad/worse than Amare on D.

I think what hurts Amare is that he comes out every offseason and says he's going to concentrate on D and never follows through.

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 09:03 PM
You are comparing a real center to a power forward. And of course he is better defender than Z-Bo. How many centers do we have in the West anyway? Stoudemire, Kaman, Bynum, and Marc himself? It is easy to get "recognition" with such weak competition for an all-star spot.

Amare isn't a center stupid. Tim Duncan has been a center most of his career though. :lol

Face it. Marc Gasol is a good player.

Chieflion
01-20-2010, 09:05 PM
Amare isn't a center stupid. Tim Duncan has been a center most of his career though. :lol

Face it. Marc Gasol is a good player.
He is on the ballot as a center, stupid, so technically he is. Or do you want to argue Channing Frye is a center. Who the fuck said Marc Gasol is not a good player? Don't twist my words, 21_Cuckolds.

cobbler
01-20-2010, 09:07 PM
Ironically, Marc Gasol is mentioned twice as a possible All Star yet his brother is a unanimous shut-out.

Who got ripped off in the Marc Gasol/Pau Gasol trade again? :lol

Ill say it again. The Lakers would be better off right now and going forward had they never made the trade. Yes, there would be no finals in 2008. Of course there would be no title last year. But going forward they would have Marc playing PF and could have used the Kwame package as a deal to get a all star caliber PG.

All star PG, Kobe, Artest, Marc Gasol, Bynum > Fisher, Kobe, Artest, Pau Gasol, Bynum

ChrisRichards
01-20-2010, 09:08 PM
Z-Bo first then Marc Gasol.

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 09:09 PM
He is on the ballot as a center, stupid, so technically he is. Or do you want to argue Channing Frye is a center.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHO11.HTM#bypos

Amare playing significantly more PF than C. He was never a real center and shouldn't be on the C ballot.


Who the fuck said Marc Gasol is not a good player? Don't twist my words, 21_Cuckolds.

Every single Spurs fan on this site before this season. :lol

Collusion My ASS :lol

Allanon
01-20-2010, 09:14 PM
Ill say it again. The Lakers would be better off right now and going forward had they never made the trade.

All star PG, Kobe, Artest, Marc Gasol, Bynum > Fisher, Kobe, Artest, Pau Gasol, Bynum

I agree.

If the Lakers didn't make the trade, Kwame could have brought in a premier point guard.

And the Lakers would be the ones paying Marc Gasol $3 million for 15 points and 10 rebounds instead of $15 million to his much older brother for 2 points more.

dirk4mvp
01-20-2010, 09:19 PM
Marc Gasol is a very good player, but he's the 4th best player on his team.

ChrisRichards
01-20-2010, 09:21 PM
Marc Gasol is a very good player, but he's the 4th best player on his team.
Agree. I think Laker fans are being ungrateful, nothing new here. Pau Gasol's W/S % is much more than Kobe's.

Allanon
01-20-2010, 09:21 PM
Marc Gasol is a very good player, but he's the 4th best player on his team.

That's a very talented team. The Grizz would be a better team if Gasol was the #2 option instead of #4.

21_Blessings
01-20-2010, 09:22 PM
Marc Gasol is a very good player, but he's the 4th best player on his team.

Disagree. He's a phenomenal passer, their best defender and 2nd best rebounder. And he's shooting .611%. :wow

djohn2oo8
01-20-2010, 09:23 PM
At least Brooks or Landry SHOULD get in...LOL Amare

dirk4mvp
01-20-2010, 09:26 PM
That's a very talented team. The Grizz would be a better team if Gasol was the #2 option instead of #4.

He should at least be the #3 option. There are few things in basketball uglier than when Rudy decides to go into blackhole mode.

rhyputa
01-20-2010, 09:30 PM
Amare is not a fucking C, he's a forward, check it out everywhere

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 09:52 PM
I think what hurts Amare is that he comes out every offseason and says he's going to concentrate on D and never follows through.


He does that mostly in response to fan and media pressure none of the other players I listed have to deal with. Nash on the contrary comes out and says he doesn't think his defense is the problem and people buy it.

mystargtr34
01-20-2010, 10:35 PM
Lakers didnt trade 15-10-2 Marc Gasol in the Pau deal... they traded a 2nd round Euro project Marc Gasol without much suspected upside.

I dont how some of you act like the Lakers gave up a proven 15-10-2 NBA Center.

cobbler
01-20-2010, 10:59 PM
Lakers didnt trade 15-10-2 Marc Gasol in the Pau deal... they traded a 2nd round Euro project Marc Gasol without much suspected upside.

I dont how some of you act like the Lakers gave up a proven 15-10-2 NBA Center.
I could show you numerous articles of the time that had Marcs upside slated a lot higher than "suspected" as I have many others here but there is no need wasting the time. Facts are that both the Lakers and Grizz thought enough of Marcs upside that Memphis demaded he be included and the Lakers almost balked because of it.

But you go on and believe what you wish.. it's not like facts influence you collusion proponents. :lol

Allanon
01-20-2010, 11:02 PM
Lakers didnt trade 15-10-2 Marc Gasol in the Pau deal... they traded a 2nd round Euro project Marc Gasol without much suspected upside.

I dont how some of you act like the Lakers gave up a proven 15-10-2 NBA Center.

Marc Gasol was the MVP of his league. Many here saw the talents of Marc Gasol and knew he would be a great player and said so back then. Nobody believed them and could only think "collusion".

It's like Kobe, the #13th pick was traded by the Hornets for Vlade Divacs, a proven player.

The Lakers made out like Bandits although it didn't "seem" like it at the time but Jerry West knew he had gold.

With Marc Gasol a major piece in the Grizzlies rise, Chris Wallace is looking like a genius.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:29 PM
Since the Suns will apparently be so good if Amare ever rebounded or played defense, explain how they went below .500 in January when Amare averaged double figure rebounding for the month? The amount of hate/blame Amare gets is ridiculous, he's held to these KG/Olajuwon standards on defense yet everyone is ok with Nash, Hill, Barbosa, J-Rich and Frye all being just as bad/worse than Amare on D.

Hey, this is about making the All Star team. Point out to me where I said Hill, Barbosa, Richardson and Frye deserve to go. Nash does deserve to be an All Star.

I'll go one further: If I were the General Manager of a team and I could have my pick of either Landry or Amare, I'd take Landry.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:31 PM
Yeah, it's funny how he never criticizes Dirk for not starting to play D till he was 27 yet Amare is 27 and just starting to play D yet he's basically Judas for not being an annual DPOY his entire career up until this point.

If the light ever goes off over Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e's head and he becomes a two-way player, you can bump this thread. Amare is all about scoring, putting up stats and getting a contract. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I just don't think he's a winner. And he'll never be a winner. Dirk is a winner. Landry is a winner. Amar'''''''''e reminds me of so many players from the nineties like Derrick Coleman that got paid outrageous sums of money to score and never became well-rounded players.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:32 PM
I'll go one further: If I were the General Manager of a team and I could have my pick of either Landry or Amare, I'd take Landry.


Yeah and then you'd probably take Nash and then realize your team sucks at defense even with Laundry instead of Amare.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:33 PM
If the light ever goes off over Amar'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e's head and he becomes a two-way player, you can bump this thread. Amare is all about scoring, putting up stats and getting a contract.


Prior to Avery Johnson that's all Dirk was about.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:35 PM
Yeah and then you'd probably take Nash and then realize your team sucks at defense even with Laundry instead of Amare.

Nash and Landry > Nash and Amare. You think Landry can't score 4 more ppg in an up-tempo offense as opposed to the grind it out game the Rockets play?

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Nash and Landry > Nash and Amare.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Prior to Avery Johnson that's all Dirk was about.

Dirk has always been about being team-oriented and getting better. He's continued to work on his defense and Avery has been gone for two years. I don't think you can say the same about Stoudemire. He wants to be The Man, but he doesn't understand the first thing about what being The Man entails.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:37 PM
You think Landry can't score 4 more ppg in an up-tempo offense as opposed to the grind it out game the Rockets play?


Not if it means he has to start rather than come off the bench and play the better portion of his minutes against the other team's 2nd unit.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:38 PM
Dirk has always been about being team-oriented and getting better. He's continued to work on his defense and Avery has been gone for two years. I don't think you can say the same about Stoudemire. He wants to be The Man, but he doesn't understand the first thing about what being The Man entails.


And he's never had a coach or any figure of authority for that matter to teach him. Prior to AJ Dirk had no idea what being the man meant.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:38 PM
Not if it means he has to start rather than come off the bench and play the better portion of his minutes against the other team's 2nd unit.

Landry is Houston's best player. It doesn't matter that he doesn't start, he finishes games. And he can play against first units.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:40 PM
And he can play against first units.


But his numbers wouldn't be as good.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:41 PM
And he's never had a coach or any figure of authority for that matter to teach him. Prior to AJ Dirk had no idea what being the man meant.

I think Dirk has a higher bball IQ and a greater understanding of what is important than Amare does. And I think that would've been true no matter where they played or who their coach was. Amare is 27 now.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:41 PM
Findog, if Amare played defense as well as you think he can (which apparently is Olajuwon circa 1994), how much would it change/improve the Suns' defense?

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:43 PM
But his numbers wouldn't be as good.

How do you know? Houston is 15th in the league in pace factor, Phoenix is 3rd.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:44 PM
Findog, if Amare played defense as well as you think he can (which apparently is Olajuwon circa 1994), how much would it change/improve the Suns' defense?

I didn't say Amare would be Motombo in his prime, but with his physical gifts, he could be an elite player. I think the Suns would be an elite team again. Not necessarily the faves to win a championship or anything, but definitely one of 4-8 teams left standing in May/June.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:46 PM
How do you know? Houston is 15th in the league in pace factor, Phoenix is 3rd.


Because Laundry thrives on being able to come into the game with fresh legs when all the other players have either been playing for awhile or are bench players. There are tons of players who play better off the bench (Ben Gordon, Jamal Crawford) and Laundry is one of them.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:48 PM
I think the Suns would be an elite team again.


Wow. You haven't watched the Suns this year if you think that. But I agree, all those 3's Mayo and Gay rained in on Monday were Amare's fault. The Suns' defensive problems are way beyond Amare. Neither Nash nor Amare have been the problem on D this year actually, the reason they're not elite is the SG and SF position.

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Wow. You haven't watched the Suns this year if you think that. But I agree, all those 3's Mayo and Gay rained in on Monday were Amare's fault. The Suns' defensive problems are way beyond Amare. Neither Nash nor Amare have been the problem on D this year actually, the reason they're not elite is the SG and SF position.

What I'm saying is that Amare has the talent and skill to be a franchise player. Nash is a quasi-franchise player. That's a hell of a foundation to be able to build upon.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:53 PM
What I'm saying is that Amare has the talent and skill to be a franchise player.


So you'd take Laundry over him if you were a GM?

Findog
01-20-2010, 11:57 PM
So you'd take Laundry over him if you were a GM?

Yeah, since I think Amare will never harness his gifts. Actual production is always more valuable than potential.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-20-2010, 11:59 PM
Regardless, I'm still curious how much better you think the Suns defense would be if Amare did whatever you think he could do. I think we both know that even if Amare worked as hard as he could on D the Suns would still be one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

Findog
01-21-2010, 12:01 AM
Regardless, I'm still curious how much better you think the Suns defense would be if Amare did whatever you think he could do. I think we both know that even if Amare worked as hard as he could on D the Suns would still be one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

Like how many fewer points per game they would give up? Who knows? If you had a big man that could defend the paint, you could chase shooters off the 3-pt line and funnel them into the middle.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 12:06 AM
And the "natural skillset" of Amare is really overrated. That freak athleticism we saw in 2004 and 2005 isn't there anymore, yeah he's still plenty athletic but he's not nearly as explosive as he used to be. He's also built extremely thin, particularily his lower body, and that hurts him defending the post and positioning for rebounds. Yes Olajuwon was built basically the exact same way but he has a way higher bball IQ than Amare, something Amare has no control over.

namlook
01-21-2010, 12:07 AM
Yeah, since I think Amare will never harness his gifts. Actual production is always more valuable than potential.

Landry's numbers reflect a lot of his minutes are against team's second units.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 12:09 AM
Like how many fewer points per game they would give up? Who knows? If you had a big man that could defend the paint, you could chase shooters off the 3-pt line and funnel them into the middle.


:lmao no. The horrible wing defense on the Suns has nothing to do with Amare. It has something to do with a lack of athleticism and discipline. Grant Hill at age 37 would get torched by Rudy Gay with anyone from Amare to Hakeem to KG defending the paint.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 12:12 AM
The 2007 Timberwolves had a big man who could defend the paint, yet they still sucked at defense, makes no sense since apparently having a big who can defend the paint means you can still have a good defense with 4 other players on the court who are horrid defenders.

Findog
01-21-2010, 12:17 AM
The 2007 Timberwolves had a big man who could defend the paint, yet they still sucked at defense, makes no sense since apparently having a big who can defend the paint means you can still have a good defense with 4 other players on the court who are horrid defenders.

Role players are interchangeable. I'm not talking about the 2009-10 Phoenix Suns specifically. I'm talking about Amare's potential to be a franchise player and force on both ends of the court.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 12:21 AM
Role players are interchangeable. I'm not talking about the 2009-10 Phoenix Suns specifically. I'm talking about Amare's potential to be a franchise player and force on both ends of the court.



Antoni had a thing for killing potential. Joe Johnson got the chance to leave and go to a team that gave him the chance to develop individually rather than develop as a compliment to Steve Nash. If Amare continued to develop the way he was after his 2nd season he probably would have become close to a franchise player. Not really his fault. It was close to impossible for him to reach his potential and develop when Antoni was coach.

da_suns_fan
01-21-2010, 12:26 AM
A lot of talk about Amare. Is he an all-star? Yeah.

Is he a starter? No.

Amare is the epitome "of all talk". Findog is right, he doesnt get it. Even my most die-hard Suns fans friends agree he's in his own world.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 12:30 AM
A lot of talk about Amare. Is he an all-star? Yeah.

Is he a starter? No.

Amare is the epitome "of all talk". Findog is right, he doesnt get it. Even my most die-hard Suns fans friends agree he's in his own world. He makes horrible decisions, doesnt rebound and hasnt made any improvements to his game in the last five years.

He's not a max contract player as he cant lead a team. Im kind of sick of watching him and would do cartwheels if he was traded for a Bosh-esque player.


Soooooooo last year the team being shitty was Shaq's fault. Now that he's gone and the Suns still suck, it's Amare's fault. I'm curious, in the event Amare is traded and the Suns still suck, who's the new scapegoat? Taylor Griffin?

21_Blessings
01-21-2010, 09:30 AM
As bad as Amare is at defense Nash is way fucking worse. 116 defensive rating which is almost a league low and historically terrible.

What's Nash's excuse again? Stockton was a solid defender. Not great, just solid and really fucking dirty.

Nash is literally one of the worst defenders of all time. Without exaggeration.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 09:55 AM
What's Nash's excuse again?


Amare. Everything that has ever gone wrong in Nash's career is Amare's fault.

vicphoenix13
01-21-2010, 02:23 PM
As bad as Amare is at defense Nash is way fucking worse. 116 defensive rating which is almost a league low and historically terrible.

What's Nash's excuse again? Stockton was a solid defender. Not great, just solid and really fucking dirty.

Nash is literally one of the worst defenders of all time. Without exaggeration.

Then why is it that the Suns keep giving up monster numbers to opposing teams forwards? Is it Nash's fault that the Suns got dominated inside on the recent roadtrip?

-Indiana, Danny Granger had 33 points and Mike Duneavy had 30 points
-Atanta, Al Horford had 24 points and Josh Smith had 20 points and 15 boards
-Charlotte, Gerald Wallace had 29 points and 13 boards and Stephen Jackson had 29 points
-Memphis, Rudy Gay had 31 points and Zach Randolph had 27 points

Now you may ask what opposing point guards had against Nash on the roadtrip
-Earl Watson had 14 points
-Mike Bibby had 8 points
-Raymond Felton had 10 points
-Mike Conley had 5 points

But keep peddling the myth that Nash's defense is the main problem.

vicphoenix13
01-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Soooooooo last year the team being shitty was Shaq's fault. Now that he's gone and the Suns still suck, it's Amare's fault. I'm curious, in the event Amare is traded and the Suns still suck, who's the new scapegoat? Taylor Griffin?

Where did you get the idea that Suns fans are blaming Amare? Most of the criticism has been directed towards Steve Kerr for some terrible decisions. The players who are getting ripped mostly are Channing Frye, Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa. Their poor play in the last 15 games is a major reason for the Suns fall in the standings.

Findog
01-21-2010, 02:54 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_GonybzHnEU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_GonybzHnEU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

kamikazi_player
01-21-2010, 03:57 PM
Seriously, Landry over Amare? Some people could argue that Amare shouldn't start, but to be off the entire all star roster? Amare is still getting around 9 rebounds and shooting 56% from the field, what's up with the Amare hate?

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 04:01 PM
But keep peddling the myth that Nash's defense is the main problem.


No one player/ one player's problem is the main problem. The main problem is that the team as a whole is full of limited, one dimensional players. Neither Amare nor Nash have had the biggest issues that last few games, the main issues have been at SG and SF. Idk why everyone always looks to blame one singular player/coach whenever the Suns struggle.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
01-21-2010, 04:02 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_GonybzHnEU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_GonybzHnEU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


It's funny you post that as if you know more about a team you probably have watched once all year than someone who has watched almost every game. Idk how you're so sure who the Suns' main problem is on defense when you haven't watched all but 1 game this year. It's more or less the same thing as Spurfan saying Dirk sucks at D when they maybe watch 5 Dallas games all year.

redzero
01-21-2010, 04:09 PM
I think another position should be created for the All Star game called "Not a Center." Therefore, Timmy can get in while also giving real Power Forwards a chance.

j-money24
01-21-2010, 05:15 PM
21-3 when they have their MVP? What a shock.

Yeah because without your second best player and an All-star, the team should do better then 21-3.

Findog
01-21-2010, 05:48 PM
It's funny you post that as if you know more about a team you probably have watched once all year than someone who has watched almost every game. Idk how you're so sure who the Suns' main problem is on defense when you haven't watched all but 1 game this year. It's more or less the same thing as Spurfan saying Dirk sucks at D when they maybe watch 5 Dallas games all year.

Que? That video was a non sequitur.

mystargtr34
01-23-2010, 04:46 AM
Marc Gasol was the MVP of his league. Many here saw the talents of Marc Gasol and knew he would be a great player and said so back then. Nobody believed them and could only think "collusion"..

As were Felipe Reyes, Jaun Carlos Navarro and Walter Hermann.


It's like Kobe, the #13th pick was traded by the Hornets for Vlade Divacs, a proven player.

The Lakers made out like Bandits although it didn't "seem" like it at the time but Jerry West knew he had gold. .

Why did the Lakers take Sun Yue with their 40th pick then. They obviously rated him higher than Marc Gasol who went at 48. What about the other 29 teams that passed him.... 17 of them twice? Obviously 47 times other teams thought they could have gotten something better than a future 15-10-2 Center. You make it sound like he was a lock to be a 15-10-2 Center in the NBA.