Manu back to the bench?

[TMTTRIO]

I guess they decided they need Manu coming from the bench again because they said Brent is starting.

[ducks]

not a bad move
they need manu's spark off the bench

[boutons]

who/where said?

Somebody send a ambulance to Whott's place. He's hyper-ventilaed and passed out.

[boutons]

A very dramatic move.

Based on his last game, can anyone see why Pop would bench Manu in the 2nd game of the playoffs? talk about dicking around with chemistry.

[ducks]

barry has to start to be effective?

[Ginofan]

He's shaking things up...I don't know if that's good or bad. On one side the chemistry might be messed up...but on the other hand if it helps Barry's confidence and leaves Manu rested for 4th quarter massacre...then okay.

BUT if this doesn't work...Pop should definitely look into hiring some personal bodygaurds lol.

[ducks]

someone needs to tell timvp he is sorry

[dcole50]

has this been confirmed?

[firepopovich]

if this is true its over chalk up another win to denver

fuck you popovich

[TMTTRIO]

Let's just hope Manu plays well tonight. The last time he got benched for Hedo, it took him several games to get back in the swing of things.

[exstatic]

Fucking pussy Brent Barry is awarded more minutes for sucking in game 1.

[picnroll]

Pop probably wants to have either Duncan or Manu on the floor at all or near all times. With Manu starting there were times both were on the bench at the same time.

[ducks]

barry better score more then last game

[Cant_Be_Faded]

this cannot be true

this is totally unlogical

[firepopovich]

yep fucking retarded. only confirms my belief pop is a fucking retard in panic mode.

[hendrix]

It makes no sense... you can simply start Manu and bench him a couple of minutes later.... oh well... i could expect them to shake things up if we were 0-2, but doing it now just says Pop really thinks we´re pretty much screwed.

[ducks]

manu is a great 6 man the spurs need that
and barry did not score a point
spurs need barry to score
manu has been fine coming off the bench
so let him he already got his big contract to so he need not to worry about starting

[Ginofan]

What does his contract have anything to do with him starting or coming from the bench ducks?

[dn0]

pop benching manu , one of the only two players that showed up on the first game.
GREAT!

[firepopovich]

why not bench parker? benching manu is fucking nuts especially with duncan injured what makes u think brent barry is gonna step up he hasnt done shit all year we fucked

[Nikos]

Whatever, just win the fucking game. If Barry fucks up oh well.

I hope Barry can do well, the team needs him.

Just WIN damn it.

[ManuTastic]

they said Brent is starting.

Evidence please...

[Man In Black]

manu is a great 6 man the spurs need that
and barry did not score a point
spurs need barry to score
manu has been fine coming off the bench
so let him he already got his big contract to so he need not to worry about starting

Duck sucks...Are you sure you understand how this game is played?



What the hell does Barry not scoring have to do with Manu coming off the bench?

With Hedo, he don't have the skills that Brent has. If Bones can remember, he has a green light to attack the rim just like Manu & TP but for whatever reason, he didn't in game 1. His bad. Barry should be able to attack the rim first and then spot up for 3. When he just spots up, defenders don't give him any spacing. If he would mix in a drive, the floor would open up nicely. Also consider that the man has a lifetime FT% of 82% even if he gets hacked on the rim, he can still easily score from the charity stripe.

[ducks]

some said manu would not be happy to come off the bench

[whottt]

I don't think it's a good move.

I don't get why you can't just let Barry run the offense for a bit off the bench.

[ducks]

What does his contract have anything to do with him starting or coming from the bench ducks?
manu would not be happy if he was playing for a contract coming off the bench

[Cant_Be_Faded]

oh my f'kn god its true

wtf would he do this at this point in the season for

at this point in the season

omg

it seriously takes them 83 games to realize barry needs to start to hit his shots, wTF?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

[ducks]

I give pop props for changing things in a middle of a serries has pop ever went this far?

[GerM]

ducks would you be happy if you were on a team and played every game as a starter and suddenly you come from the bench? I really don?t get how you can write so much BS without thinking about the confidence loss manu will suffer.

[Nikos]

Give him props if the team plays well (and Barry).

A win does not mean the move worked wonders. The Spurs are SUPPOSED to win this game.

And they better.

[dn0]

pop better pray for barry to show up tonight or he's going to have to hide on a anti-nuclear bunker for a few years.

[whottt]

Yeah he did it last year in game 6 VS the Lakers...Manu started the second half.

Manu can be a better energy guy than Barry but I really don't think it's a good idea to move him to the bench on the Spur of the moment...besides, our problems were in the 4th quarter. If Pop refuses to adjust again we'll still have the same problems.

Maybe Pop doesn't want Manu running out of gas late in the 4th.

[Tobias]

Yeah, why not bench Parker?? It's not like Barry hasn't been playing PG for umpteen years or anything.

[ducks]

I do not think manu has any confidence problem
now if tp was benched yes
but manu has done this before

lets see how he does then we can all know if this is a good move
rember manu was really worn out early and pop was worried he would last thru the playoffs

[exstatic]

OK, the rationale behind the move, as expalined by Sean, was to

a) get Brent some better looks with the first team.

b) have his matchup be DerMarr Johnson, and not Carmello, whom he struggled against in game 1.

As long as he plays DerMarr type minutes, it won't be awful. It must suck for Manu, though.

[ducks]

Maybe Pop doesn't want Manu running out of gas late in the 4th.

we have a winner!

[CosmicCowboy]

WOAI confirmed. Well...Pop knows more about basketball than anyone in this forum...I figure that Pops plan is to give Manu about the same amount of minutes just reserve them for later in the game..I am sure that Barry has his marching orders tonight to shoot the fucking ball when he is open...and the guy has a beautiful high percentage stroke when he uses it so we will see..hopefully there will be a lot of naysayers eating their words tomorrow...

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think it's a good move.

I don't get why you can't just let Barry run the offense for a bit off the bench.

I agree that it isn't a good move;it smacks of desperation. However, whott, didn't you dislike the fact that they weren't making any changes after game 1? In response to that claim it would seem a bold stroke to shake things up trying to get a shooter out of his funk.

Just playing devil's advocate.

[Nikos]

Maybe the Spurs need some good players in for most of the game ducks? It is the playoffs after all no?

With Duncan hurt, and Parker shooting poorly do you really want Manu on the bench for that long.

Manu is not Ben Gordon. He can't score 20pts in 15minutes. Hes not a clutch jump shooter in general. Why do you think he would be better with less minutes?

[ducks]

I hope they eat their words tonight and tomorrow!

[dn0]

OK, the rationale behind the move, as expalined by Sean, was to

a) get Brent some better looks with the first team.


This is starting to sound like Hedo Turkoglu.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

what is to prevent barry from getting taken advantage of on the defensive end

[nkdlunch]

I don't give a damn if Pop starts as PG himself. Just WIN THE GAME.

btw. barry is a bitch, he better step up

[Duncanoypi]

i think its true based on the lineup in yahoo.com

Name Min FG 3Pt FT Off Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
B. Bowen 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T. Duncan 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
N. Mohammed 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T. Parker 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B. Barry 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
R. Horry 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G. Robinson 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T. Massenburg 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
R. Nesterovic 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M. Ginobili 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
D. Brown 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B. Udrih 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

[ducks]

Maybe the Spurs need some good players in for most of the game ducks? It is the playoffs after all no?

With Duncan hurt, and Parker shooting poorly do you really want Manu on the bench for that long.

Manu is not Ben Gordon. He can't score 20pts in 15minutes. Hes not a clutch jump shooter in general. Why do you think he would be better with less minutes?

he would get more steals in 4 if played less minutes to that point

[Man In Black]

More duckisms.

Hey you know what? I got a sig for you.

You and Sequ can share it,

We know more about hoops...than Lakergod.

[diego]

the only explanation is pop wants either duncan or manu on the floor at all times, or manu is injured and we dont know about it. otherwise, this is the wackiest decision ive seen pop make

[Ginobilly]

I got mixed feeling about this............ :( I don't think now is the time to be changing lineups. It's only the second game??? Unless Pop sees something we don't and is already in panic mode.

I only know one thing............Brent Barry is a fuckin panocha, mama verga, pinche joto. The guy better have the huevos to produce as a starter. He better not turn out like that pussy fart Hedo Panochaglu. :flipoff

[firepopovich]

This will never work all it will do is give denver a big lead early. Mark my words

[Duncanoypi]

If it went well....Manu for 6th man of the Year!

[exstatic]

what is to prevent barry from getting taken advantage of on the defensive end

Suposedly, that's one thing they are trying to prevent. His cover is DerMarr, not one of the big scorers on Denver. When DerMarr goes out and Boykins comes in, look for the Manu substitution. That moves Manu to cover Andre, Tony to Boykins, and Bowen stays on Melo.

[Nikos]

he would get more steals in 4 if played less minutes to that point

Right. Your point? Its the playoffs. Play your best players.

Manu is not a fourth quarter wizard. He is more of an all around player, who at times can take over in a fourth quarter when feeling it. But don't expect him to play perfect basketball in the fourth because he is coming off the bench.

[hendrix]

Nobody knows what will happen, it could just work out alright if the team adjust at time in the first quarter.... or it could be the worst decision ever if Barry doesnt do it well enough and we could be down by 20 at the half... and then what: "Manu! you're up"?

[dcole50]

btw. barry is a bitch

:rolleyes

early three by barry. what a bitch.

[hendrix]

So, what i mean is... Pop is gambling now and that should tell us he thinks we're screwed. And if the coach is in panic, the team will play with fear.
Again, nobody knows what will happen, it only remains to pray.

[exstatic]

:lmao DerMarr scores on him IMMEDIATELY.

[Gerryatrics]

I wanted Pop to make adjustments, but this is a bit much. Barry can be effective off the bench if you just get him touches, I guess Pop is starting Bones to reinforce that with the rest of the team. When you start, touches are a given. I still don't think this was neccesary, even down 0-1 losing home court advantage. We'll see how it works out I guess. But if nothing else, I'm happy seeing Brent starting and hopefully getting some solid minutes.

[hendrix]

Anyways... Pop is a lucky bastard...

[hendrix]

I just hope Manu doesnt play bad because nobody would save Pop's ass.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think this may turn out to be brilliant. Manu is smart enough to not see this as a demotion. If barry needs to start to be effective then let him start, its what the team needs. Manu is going to be fine.

[dcole50]

Anyways... Pop is a lucky bastard...
when things don't work out, he's a moron. when things work out, he's lucky. ;)

[Gerryatrics]

So now what I'm wondering is; will Barry be in at the end of the game? Being one of the most clutch players on the team, and now being in the starting lineup, you'd think he would be. Of course, it made perfect sense to sub him in when the Spurs went 10 minutes without a bucket too, and Pop didn't do that. Parker, Ginobili, Barry, Horry/Nazr, Duncan in crunch time (unless it's a blowout)?

[Athenea]

IT IS A FRIGGING DEMOTION!!
ARE U BLIND!!!???!!!

[Duncanoypi]

will Barry start on saturday?

[TMTTRIO]

It'll be interesting since Devin's coming back?

[Nikos]

Just WIN GAME 3 damn it.

[Obstructed_View]

This will never work all it will do is give denver a big lead early. Mark my words
You are a total fucking stupidass. Mark my words.

[Spurminator]

Props to Manu for embracing his role, and props to Barry for stepping up under pressure.

I'm not sure I want to see this as a permanent move... maybe just against Denver... but it clearly worked tonight.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu is good enough to create his own opportunities if he comes in off the bench. Barry was signed to make teams pay for doubling Duncan. If Duncan and Barry aren't on the floor at the same time you lose the advantage. Not sure it's going to be permanent either, but it's hard to dispute the logic. Only a retard would think it was a demotion of Manu. Starting is overrated. Finishing is the important part.

[EasilyAmused]

Props to Manu for embracing his role, and props to Barry for stepping up under pressure.

I'm not sure I want to see this as a permanent move... maybe just against Denver... but it clearly worked tonight.


I agree with eveything you said, even if I see it as a demotion, but then again, I am no expert when it comes to Basketball...

edit to add* but I ain't retarded! :lol

[Athenea]

Manu is good enough to create his own opportunities if he comes in off the bench. Barry was signed to make teams pay for doubling Duncan. If Duncan and Barry aren't on the floor at the same time you lose the advantage. Not sure it's going to be permanent either, but it's hard to dispute the logic. Only a retard would think it was a demotion of Manu. Starting is overrated. Finishing is the important part.
Blah blah blah I appreciate mediocrity...

[spurster]

Can't complain about the results.

[Ginofan]

Obviosly Manu isn't going to be all *sparkly* about this but he's a good enough person to not complain and he knows he's doing what's best for the team. If this is going to happen every time we start Barry and bring Manu from the bench then by all means DO IT.

Did anyone catch the Pop conference after the game? They asked him how Manu responded to being told he was going to come off the bench, Pop said "He asked to be traded" :lol

[ZStomp]

if this is true its over chalk up another win to denver

fuck you popovich


I wonder...

[Mark in Austin]

So let me get this straight... we criticize Pop for not being able to make adjustments mid-series; for being too stubborn.

And now when he actually makes an adjustment that proves to be incredibly effective, he's an idiot?

Are the numbers lying to us? Did the Spurs actually do worse tonight because Manu came off the bench?

[Obstructed_View]

Blah blah blah I appreciate mediocrity...That is, I presume, an admission of retardation?

[ZStomp]

yep fucking retarded. only confirms my belief pop is a fucking retard in panic mode.


Idiot.

This is someone elses screen name. Mouse?

[stéphane]

Honestly i dont really understand why manu fans would be upset if he would come off the bench...
If TP wouldn't be starter and would play the same minutes and produce the same numbers to be 100% in the 4th... i honnestly wouldn't mind benching him...

[hendrix]

Honestly i dont really understand why manu fans would be upset if he would come off the bench...
If TP wouldn't be starter and would play the same minutes and produce the same numbers to be 100% in the 4th... i honnestly wouldn't mind benching him...

Yeah.. I know, you' re probably right and everything, but you know how it is... a starter is a starter, and Manu could also be starting and replaced like in the first minutes to the same effect.

[E20]

Well GREG POPOVICH gave everybody here that hated on him a nice big shut the fuck up!

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao @ all the idiots who bitched in this thread.

[timvp]

someone needs to tell timvp he is sorry

Exactly.

Pop should have made this switch months ago when I brought it up. It makes way too much sense not to do it. You get fragile-minded Brent Barry into the starting lineup and let him get into a rhythm. Barry can space out the floor and make it easier for Parker and Duncan.

Then when Manu comes off the bench, it's over. No team can match his energy coming off the bench. If the game is close, Manu will blow it open.

This move is genius. The only bad part is Pop should have gone with this lineup when I originally brought it up.

I would ask for apologies, but there were too many people who called me out and who couldn't understand the difference between a move that would help the team and a "demotion".

timvp strikes again.

:smokin

[Slo spurs fan]

Props to you timvp!

[TMTTRIO]

I still hate it since he's the better player and deserves to be there in the starting lineup, but it has been working so might as well and I'm just thankful he didn't hurt his ankle for the rest of the playoffs.

[nickbroken]

Yeah good call timpv some people in chat busted the claws out when they heard Manu was coming off the bench, I was like whats the big deal that mofo has some energy in him off the bench.

[timvp]

Click here to see Spurs fans bashing timvp for saying that Manu should come off the bench. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12010)

Click here to see another thread of Spurs fans bashing timvp. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12271)

Tip to people who bash timvp in the future:

He's usually right.

:smokin

[vincerodriguez23]

well im glad that pop had to do what he thought was best for us to get the W. if it took benching ginobili, good, let him come off the bench and provide a spark. i think brent did his part today and played like a starter

[Athenea]

Honestly i dont really understand why manu fans would be upset if he would come off the bench...
If TP wouldn't be starter and would play the same minutes and produce the same numbers to be 100% in the 4th... i honnestly wouldn't mind benching him...

BULLSHIT!
Same minutes??? You have to be kidding me, right??????????
Your boy played like crap last POs when it did matter same as last game...Manu got "promoted" to the bench and u have the nerve to say u would be cool w/Tony in the same situation?
Guess what? U will never be in the same situation coz TP is Pop's golden- frankenstein-boy creation. He has divine protection (as well as all the sharp shooter sgs Spurs get in the off season). :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

[timvp]

Manu got "promoted" to the bench

Exactly.

Thanks.

:smokin

[Athenea]

Click here to see Spurs fans bashing timvp for saying that Manu should come off the bench. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12010)

Click here to see another thread of Spurs fans bashing timvp. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12271)

Tip to people who bash timvp in the future:

He's usually right.

:smokin
You are wrong!
Time will tell...as it did last season...
What did Spurs win last POs? hu? I can tell u: SECOND ROUND EXIT!

[timvp]

Manu is still da bomb. This is just a better use of talent.

He's happy with it. You should be too.

Argentina should be proud.

[nickbroken]

Athenea scares me when shes upset about Manu.

[Athenea]

Athenea scares me when shes upset about Manu.
coward :lol

[iminlakerland]

We had this discussion in chat tonight. Pop made a good move by moving manu to the bench and having a spark off of the bench. We even discussed that Manu coming off the bench allows him to be much fresher then other players. Not many players are able to match manus intensity as is. But then again i got yelled and cursed at by some Spur fans so...

all is ok timvp your not the only one. And once again you were right ;)

[nickbroken]

coward :lol

Wtf you said you were gonna come judochop me or some shit and you were a blackbelt in something so I had to hide under my desk before thine wraith.:( Either way Manu still did great coming off the bench.;)

[IcemanCometh]

No one ever recognizes greatness timvp.

[timvp]

No one ever recognizes greatness timvp.

Yeah no matter how hard I try to throw it in their faces.

:rollin

[Cant_Be_Faded]

barry hitting his threes wouldnt have meant jack if duncan hadn't been flawless for the entire first quarter

barry was icing on the cake, and his shots spread out the D for better looks in the 2nd.

But the nuggets played tim straight up for the entire first half and some of the second. Duncan owned the nuggz tonight guys, make no mistakes about that.

i was surprised brent ended 4 for 4 though, way to go brent!

[whottt]

I diasagree...Barry is one of the Spurs that almost seems to play better without Duncan, that's why I am still not sold on this move. But I think him going 4-4 with Duncan was kind of a breakthrough. But his numbers have an impact outside of Duncan and they have all season long. Look at the Houston game.

The guy Barry plays the best with is Manu. And I think Manu plays better with Barry than just about anyone other than Duncan...unfortunately we are usually subbing one for the other.

[slayermin]

I don't like the move but you can't argue with the results.

In a perfect world, Manu would start and Devin would be the energy off the bench. But it isn't and Manu knows this will improve the current team, and so do I.

I feel your pain Athnea because I respect Manu and I want him to get the credit he deserves. In the big picture, Manu played great and he said all the right things. It doesn't look like he is too worried about it.

[timvp]

I don't think that Whottt will be happy until Brenttt Barry is playing 48 minutes a game.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

he'll be happy soon

cuz barry's living through the best postseason of his career...he'll stay hot now, i can feel it

[whottt]

TimVP, that makes no sense...if all I wanted was Barry to get more minutes then why wouldn't I be in favor of him starting?

If you look closely you will see there is no clear trend of Barry playing better off the bench or starting...

He's lead the team in scoring 3 times this season...all of those games he was on the bench.

What will make me happy is when Barry handles the ball when our offense is going into the crapper with TO's and sloppy play and we are blowing a lead. Is it really hard to see how skilled he is in that area? He doesn't do that. He doesn't have that problem. Yet Pop has refused to let him handle the ball in those situations when he is the least TO prone guy on the team...and he also shoots better when he is doing that.

But if you look real closely tonight...Manu was the true backup PG...which is very similar to what I have wanted to do all season with Barry.

Anyway...we're still in a huge hole and I still don't think we're gonna win this series. I don't think it matters whether Barry plays off the bench or starts as for whether or not he plays well. But maybe tonight was an indication that he is adjusting to having a big...maybe he will shoot that 70% we were all expecting.

[timvp]

I still don't think we're gonna win this series.

whottt is a bandwagon fan?

Sad.

[Athenea]

GAY MOVE, POP...REALLY GAY... :nope :nope :nope
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/4628/bailarin8zt.png

[whottt]

whottt is a bandwagon fan?

Sad.


Still defending the decision making in the 4th of game 1 that probably cost us HCA?

Still refusing to admit the gravity of the situation we will face in Denver because of a lame duck performance in game 1?


I think the Spurs are the better team and the more talented team...but whatever edge they have is going to be lessened playing in the mile high city.

It's not about the Spurs...it's about Pop's stubborness.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

whottt you think we're going to lose this series wtf

[timvp]

Okay then if the Spurs move on beyond this series, you might as well return your Spurs fandom card.

David Robinson is ashamed of you. You're a sellout. You jumped ship. You don't believe.

Disgrace.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Romain Sato would never agree with this

[whottt]

Okay then if the Spurs move on beyond this series, you might as well return your Spurs fandom card.

David Robinson is ashamed of you. You're a sellout. You jumped ship. You don't believe.

Disgrace.

Hogwash.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Manu will probably end up playing the same amount of minutes off the bench as he would starting, so why is it such a big deal?

[MI21]

I swear some people would prefer the team to lose and Manu play 48 minutes than have the team win and Manu play 30 minutes.

[whottt]

Romain Sato would never agree with this

Romain Sato is unemployed.

[timvp]

Hogwash.

When you are arguing with Whottt and you make him respond with a one word answer, you know you've won.

Victory.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Romain Sato is unemployed.

At least he has a college education.

[Marhq]

It's seems that everybody is saying: blowout + Manu from the bench --> blowout because Manu from the bench. That's yet to be seen.

How cool is to be a SG for the Spurs? All you have to do is suck for long enough and you're gonna get your starting job over Manu. :rolleyes

I'm all for winning and if this move by Pop works so be it, as long as Manu gets all of his minutes. But in the future it would be nice to stop signing confidence challenged players.

And please stop saying that starting is not important because Manu would've never been an All Star if he wasn't a starter. :nope

[whottt]

When you are arguing with Whottt and you make him respond with a one word answer, you know you've won.

Victory.


LOL!

TimVP...if not having faith in the coach makes you a bandwagon fan then so be it...

In that case I've been a bandwagon fan since about 1986 when Bob(suckass)Weiss was the headcoach...because I wanted his ass fired from the get go.

While I owe Bob a debt of gratitude for sucking bad enough for us to get Drob...I still think he sucked ass and had no faith in him.

But personally I don't see how it's any different than having a lack of faith in a player...like oh say...Brent Barry or Rasho.

I want the Spurs to win just as much as the "believers" do, I feel the pain of losses just as much though I am an infidel...and I watch regardless of what I think will happen. Hmmm I might even argue that being devoted when you don't think your team will win is an indication of being even more of a diehard fan.

But believe...in Pop's substitutions...you ask too much.

I don't have faith in Pop's offensive mind..other than it offends me...if that makes me a bandwgon fan then so be it. But I don't believe...I'll believe after we win the title with the most talented team in Spurs history. It's time to prove it.

[whottt]

It's seems that everybody is saying: blowout + Manu from the bench --> blowout because Manu from the bench. That's yet to be seen.

How cool is to be a SG for the Spurs? All you have to do is suck for long enough and you're gonna get your starting job over Manu. :rolleyes

I'm all for winning and if this move by Pop works so be it, as long as Manu gets all of his minutes. But in the future it would be nice to stop signing confidence challenged players.

And please stop saying that starting is not important because Manu would've never been an All Star if he wasn't a starter. :nope

I'm not in favor of this move but...

Who cares about the AS game?

1.The AS game selection has been a joke for a long time. Yao started ahead of Shaq as a rookie...Guys don't even play half the season and get voted in. Most of the guys that make it don't even want to play it...like Duncan.

2.Manu being on the bench in no way limits him from making the AS game. Bench players have made the All Star Game before...

3.I think Manu has surpassed Duncan as Pop's favorite player on the team. You can tell the tremendous amount of respect Pop has for Manu when he talks. You can tell how much Manu's teamates respect him. If anything this move makes them respect him even more.

Just like tonight...All Doug Collins did on the broadcast was rave about how impressed he was with Manu's selflessness...

No one thinks Brent Barry is a better player than Manu....and if they do because of this move then they are as big of morons as the people that thought Hedo>Manu because of it.

Look at how Manu handled it...like a winner...and he's gained more respect because of it...all it shows is that you can play Manu anywhere and he will be successful...not all players can do that.

[CAPARG]

"I was disappointed last year, but then I was still a little doubtful about my career," Ginobili said. "I didn't know if I belonged here that much.

"This year, I know who I am. I know the team respects me. I know Pop does, too. And I know it's good for the team, so it's no big deal."

"I said if you feel it's going to help us, I'm ready to do it," Ginobili said. "We all have only one goal. That's winning the championship."

[Solid D]

He's got a great heart and an even better attitude. That can really influence his teammates when they see unselfishness in action.

[OM_fever]

Great attitude, totally the opposite of so many players in this league... stick to Spurs' mentality. And he will be unstoppable by opponents from the bench.

Is there any stats comparing his production as a starter & a sub?

[Ginofan]

I sooo love him! :makeout He's got such a good heart in him and such a nice attitude.

Maybe some of the Argentines should read his quotes instead of complaining so much.

[timvp]

I sooo love him! :makeout He's got such a good heart in him and such a nice attitude.

Maybe some of the Argentines should read his quotes instead of complaining so much.

I thought you bashed me when I suggested the move?

Oh well.

:)

[spur219]

I think the sub moves were great. It worked for this game and maybe they should try it out for the next game. I liked it when Brent was running the point. Yesterday I said that Pop actually needs to coach this 1st series and he did an excellent job yesterday. Spurs played excellent team ball and hopefully they can continue.

[vanvannen]

I'm not saying the move didn't come out alright, it obviously did, but don't give me the "this is not demotion" shit 'cause it clearly is. Remember last year when Hedo got into the starting lineup it took manu 10/15 games to figure out his bench role again and I remember him saying he was depressed about it. I'm all for winning the championship and if manu has to stay cleaning the floor at the training facility then so be it, but tell me what's going to happen in the next round, or next year? What's going to happen when Devine is back?
He may be cool with this now, as it worked out fine but you just can't fuck with the guy every time you need to change something. He is the fucking scape goat of this team.

[CAPARG]

Really, I´m not happy with the move, but if he BELIEVE, I BELIEVE more than ever we can be the Champions.

[Ginofan]

I thought you bashed me when I suggested the move?

Oh well.

:)

I don't think I really bashed you Timvp...(if I did I apologize) but it was more like I didn't like the logic of the reasons you stated to support your theory. But either way...it worked out in the end, and I couldn't be more happy :D

[TwoHandJam]

Click here to see Spurs fans bashing timvp for saying that Manu should come off the bench. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12010)

Click here to see another thread of Spurs fans bashing timvp. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12271)

Tip to people who bash timvp in the future:

He's usually right.

:smokin
:rolleyes Geez, you've done everything in but award yourself your own kluby in this thread. Watch it timvp or you'll have trouble fitting your head through doors. :lol

You weren't alone in thinking it might be a good idea to have Barry start. I can't remember if I posted thoughts on this but I know I had lengthy discussions with my Canadian compadre Walton about this very early in the season.

Also, the reasons you posted for having Manu come off the bench now (confidence boost for Barry, better spacing for Tim) are not the ones you were touting back then. Back then it was all about how fragile and tired Manu is and how he could never make it through a season playing even a hair more than 30mpg (something I still totally disagree with btw).

So lets not break our arms patting ourselves on the back too much hmm? I think Barry starting is a good thing and something Pop should have tried early in the season when he was still tinkering. Lets hope it all works out and we can hoist another O'Brien this summer.

[Kori Ellis]

Don't think that managing Manu's minutes wasn't a big part of the decision too. It wasn't just about jumpstarting Barry or about providing energy off the bench. Manu's fatigue played a role in it too.

I'm not sure how long Pop plans to use this lineup, but it worked last night. We'll see what happens the rest of the series. I know Manu can perform off the bench; we'll see if Barry can continue to flourish as a starter.

[Sec24Row7]

Manu is our second best player and the #1 Leader on this team as far as I am concerned.

This is his 3rd year, he is much more Vocal and he is THE go to guy in the 4th quarter.

If we make it to the finals and win, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ginobili win Finals MvP...over Dunan.

He is just that kind of player in huge games.

HE is the difference between Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.

Just call me manu fanboi #37 after how he handled coming off the bench last night.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, Happy Birthday Ginofan.

[Ginofan]

BTW, Happy Birthday Ginofan.

Thanks Kori! :D

[TwoHandJam]

Don't think that managing Manu's minutes wasn't a big part of the decision too. It wasn't just about jumpstarting Barry or about providing energy off the bench. Manu's fatigue played a role in it too. I'm sure it did play a role in the decision Kori but we'll never know how big of a role. In this particular series, we've got good spacing between games so I'm not sure it was the main factor. I think Barry's almost total lack of production in game 1 was.


I'm not sure how long Pop plans to use this lineup, but it worked last night. We'll see what happens the rest of the series. I know Manu can perform off the bench; we'll see if Barry can continue to flourish as a starter.Yup. I hope we can build on our momentum from the last game.

Oh yeah, I found this http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7539 (post) in the archives by duncan2k5 who advocated Barry should start way back in December so maybe your hubby might want to share the spotlight a little. :fro

[ducks]

"I was disappointed last year, but then I was still a little doubtful about my career," Ginobili said. "I didn't know if I belonged here that much.

"This year, I know who I am. I know the team respects me. I know Pop does, too. And I know it's good for the team, so it's no big deal."

"I said if you feel it's going to help us, I'm ready to do it," Ginobili said. "We all have only one goal. That's winning the championship."


I said earlier before quotes came out
manu got his big contract so he would not have a problem with it

[Ginofan]

I said earlier before quotes came out
manu got his big contract so he would not have a problem with it

You keep acting like he's all about the money, ducks.

[Spurminator]

I think ducks is talking about security more than dollars.

[Kori Ellis]

timvp is just gloating because he gets bashed so badly when he makes a "crazy" take. Last season when he wanted Mercer benched (and then waived) people went off on him in a bad way. Since the season started and Barry wasn't performing that well and Manu was getting so fatigued, he's been saying to me that the Spurs just let Barry start and that would combat both factors. But most people here wouldn't even consider it because of the All-Star level of play of Manu. I didn't think that Pop would choose to do it during the postseason, but it makes too much sense. Manu only played 18 minutes last night, so this move and the rout of Denver obviously let Pop rest him more than normal. Manu is extremely fatigued and Pop knows that the playoffs aren't a sprint. So though Pop's decision was surprising timing-wise, I don't see how it can be viewed as a "demotion" or a bad thing right now.

[2centsworth]

timvp is just gloating because he gets bashed so badly when he makes a "crazy" take. Last season when he wanted Mercer benched (and then waived) people went off on him in a bad way. Since the season started and Barry wasn't performing that well and Manu was getting so fatigued, he's been saying to me that the Spurs just let Barry start and that would combat both factors. But most people here wouldn't even consider it because of the All-Star level of play of Manu. I didn't think that Pop would choose to do it during the postseason, but it makes too much sense. Manu only played 18 minutes last night, so this move and the rout of Denver obviously let Pop rest him more than normal. Manu is extremely fatigued and Pop knows that the playoffs aren't a sprint. So though Pop's decision was surprising timing-wise, I don't see how it can be viewed as a "demotion" or a bad thing right now.
Stand by your man!http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif

[2centsworth]

Still defending the decision making in the 4th of game 1 that probably cost us HCA?

Still refusing to admit the gravity of the situation we will face in Denver because of a lame duck performance in game 1?


I think the Spurs are the better team and the more talented team...but whatever edge they have is going to be lessened playing in the mile high city.

It's not about the Spurs...it's about Pop's stubborness.
If the spurs win the series, will your crazy takes disappear or are you happy just irritating people?

[Kori Ellis]

When he gets in crazy-Whottt mode, you can't stop the madness.

[smeagol]

I said earlier before quotes came out
manu got his big contract so he would not have a problem with it
Ducks, what is your issue with Manu?

You have very subtle ways of bashing him.

[picnroll]

In Pop's postgame comments they mentioned that the coaches reasoning for bringing Manu off the bench was; 1) it allowed for rotations in which at least two of the three of Manu, TP and TD were on the floor together, and 2) it allowed Barry to be on the floor more with Parker and TD the players the coaches feel he's most effective playing with. PJ sited Manu not starting as a problem in getting him all the minutes they'd like. So at least for public consumption they don't see limiting Manu's minutes somewhat by his not starting as a positive. Net effect they see as a positive.

[TwoHandJam]

timvp is just gloating because he gets bashed so badly when he makes a "crazy" take. Last season when he wanted Mercer benched (and then waived) people went off on him in a bad way. Since the season started and Barry wasn't performing that well and Manu was getting so fatigued, he's been saying to me that the Spurs just let Barry start and that would combat both factors. But most people here wouldn't even consider it because of the All-Star level of play of Manu. I didn't think that Pop would choose to do it during the postseason, but it makes too much sense. Manu only played 18 minutes last night, so this move and the rout of Denver obviously let Pop rest him more than normal. Manu is extremely fatigued and Pop knows that the playoffs aren't a sprint. So though Pop's decision was surprising timing-wise, I don't see how it can be viewed as a "demotion" or a bad thing right now.I totally agree. As I said, I'd been having similar conversations with Walton about Barry starting when he was having trouble adjusting.

I also don't see how you can view this as a demotion just as I couldn't see it as one when Hedo started. It's a total sign of respect for Manu's game that Pop thinks he can flourish in any situation.

Manu himself said he understands the decision just as he did last year. Last year it was harder to swallow because he still didn't feel completely validated yet as a NBA caliber player but it seems this year he has no qualms about it.

This guy is all class.

[2centsworth]

Click here to see Spurs fans bashing timvp for saying that Manu should come off the bench. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12010)

Click here to see another thread of Spurs fans bashing timvp. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12271)

Tip to people who bash timvp in the future:

He's usually right.

:smokin
How about your take that B. Berry is a choke artist and would never show up in any meaningful game. You referenced his Chicago experience as an example. I think Timvp has selective memory, but usually has very good takes.

[Kori Ellis]

PJ and Pop often say very different things, which I always find interesting.

I guess that keeps CIA in full-effect.

PJ also had said before the game yesterday that there was no way Devin would play last night.

[Kori Ellis]

How about your take that B. Berry is a choke artist and would never show up in any meaningful game. You referenced his Chicago experience as an example. I think Timvp has selective memory, but usually has very good takes.

timvp has repeatedly said that Barry needed to step up but hadn't yet. He often finishes his Barry-bashing posts with "He needs to step up and I think he will." Apparently you have selective reading as well.

Case in point ...


I've never seen someone be such an apologist for a player. whotttt is treating Barry like taruky treated Turkoglu.

Barry got scared and didn't shoot enough in game one. The Spurs needed him to hit some shots. Barry came up with 0 points in 19 minutes.

Only Whotttt can twist that around to where Pop is wrong and how Barry is the one who should have kept playing becuase eventually he might have scored.

Give it up. You are backing a shook player who sucked in the beginning of preseason and who sucked in the beginning of the regular season due to pressure. I expected him to curl up into the fetal position come playoff time.

Luckily, I think he'll snap out of it. Until then, you are only making yourself look bad by defending him with your life.

Barry will eventually get into the flow and stop being nervous.

Believe.

[nkdlunch]

In Pop's postgame comments they mentioned that the coaches reasoning for bringing Manu off the bench was; 1) it allowed for rotations in which at least two of the three of Manu, TP and TD were on the floor together, and 2) it allowed Barry to be on the floor more with Parker and TD the players the coaches feel he's most effective playing with. PJ sited Manu not starting as a problem in getting him all the minutes they'd like. So at least for public consumption they don't see limiting Manu's minutes somewhat by his not starting as a positive. Net effect they see as a positive.

All seem valid points. Who cares if Manu starts at the bench. Everyone knows he is the second most important piece to this team.
Tim = Queen
Manu = Rook
Parker = Knight
Everyone else = Pawn

[ambchang]

All being said, Manu should get props for handling it like a true professional. Instead of whining and bitching, he scored 17 points in 18 minutes, and just blew the Nuggets away when he stepped on the court. Granted, it would not have happened if Duncan wasn't playing great.
The Nuggets looked flat in the first half, and this probably would not happen again in this series. Despite the blowout, it still counts as one win, and the Spurs have to win at least one in Denver, who has a 19-1 record under Karl, and win all their remaining home games.

[2centsworth]

timvp has repeatedly said that Barry needed to step up but hadn't yet. He often finishes his Barry-bashing posts with "He needs to step up and I think he will." Apparently you have selective reading as well.

Case in point ...
I will admit I haven't read all 20k of Timvp's post like you have, but the ones I've read made no mention that berry would step up. So I can find 20 other post that support my argument. Think about it.

[Kori Ellis]

I will admit I haven't read all 20k of Timvp's post like you have, but the ones I've read made no mention that berry would step up. So I can find 20 other post that support my argument. Think about it.

I'm not sure why you are a little obsessed with this and want to make your "argument". But believe me that I know what timvp has been saying, we talk about the Spurs everyday. Sometimes I bash Barry (or others) in the forum relentlessly, but it doesn't mean that I don't think he can eventually sack up.

[2centsworth]

I'm not sure why you are a little obsessed with this and want to make your "argument". But believe me that I know what timvp has been saying, we talk about the Spurs everyday. Sometimes I bash Barry (or others) in the forum relentlessly, but it doesn't mean that I don't think he can eventually sack up.
the obsession comes from you. I kiddingly made a comment about Timvp always being right, and complimented him in the same thread. You're the defensive one, but I can understand that and admire it.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not defensive, you just repeatedly give people back-handed compliments and I think it sucks.

[2centsworth]

I'm not defensive, you just repeatedly give people back-handed compliments and I think it sucks. Only when I'm trying to needle them. I expect my friends to do the same for me if I get a little full of myself. I do consider us friends of the forum.

Btw, the back-handedness is a guy thing.http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smihat.gif

[ducks]

with manu it was about the money some
before he got his contract he did not know hwat he would make
you get paid more for starting
it is also about security and respect from your teamates

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not defensive, you just repeatedly give people back-handed compliments and I think it sucks.
Haha!

http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/kwik-e-simpsons/wallpapers/nelson-preview.gif

[2centsworth]

Apparently Manny still feels the pain I've inflicted on him.lol

[Obvious]

Don't think that managing Manu's minutes wasn't a big part of the decision too. It wasn't just about jumpstarting Barry or about providing energy off the bench. Manu's fatigue played a role in it too.

I'm not sure how long Pop plans to use this lineup, but it worked last night. We'll see what happens the rest of the series. I know Manu can perform off the bench; we'll see if Barry can continue to flourish as a starter.
I agree, by now that was just a lucky move because the 67% not a smart move. If you hit 67% you don’t need Manu either in the bench.

[timvp]

How about your take that B. Berry is a choke artist and would never show up in any meaningful game. You referenced his Chicago experience as an example. I think Timvp has selective memory, but usually has very good takes.

Check out my first post in this thread. Then get back to me.

You sure have a lot to talk about for a guy who "retired" from this forum after a loss :blah

[2centsworth]

You sure have a lot to talk about for a guy who "retired" from this forum after a loss :blah
Please tell me where I said that.

All I've ever said on this forum is that the spurs have been on cruise control since the beginning of the season. 1st game of the series finally woke them up.


You're very good a distorting words.

[timvp]

Please tell me where I said that.

All I've ever said on this forum is that the spurs have been on cruise control since the beginning of the season. 1st game of the series finally woke them up.


You're very good a distorting words.


"Farewell Everyone" (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10702)

Too easy.

[2centsworth]

i said
Until playoff time, so long. /[quote]

[quote]I still think it's obvious the spurs are going to win it all.


totally off the mark. Coasting in a good way, but I'm not going to try to explain it to you. Hint: Pop plays Manu limited minutes. See you come playoff time.


btw, the heat are coasting too.

It's too easy proving you're distoring my words trying to be a tough guy. I'm not dusty.

[Kori Ellis]

It's too easy proving you're distoring my words trying to be a tough guy. I'm not dusty.

2centsworth, why are you being suck a prick? Didn't we even give you a free ticket to a Spurs game? Just back up.

[2centsworth]

2centsworth, why are you being suck a prick? Didn't we even give you a free ticket to a Spurs game? Just back up.
Kori,

I'm responding to the following.



You sure have a lot to talk about for a guy who "retired" from this forum after a loss
That was started by Timvp, not me. I'm defending myself and not being a prick.

Pete

[Kori Ellis]

You did "retire". Albeit temporary. You announced your farewell. And you are being a prick, what's with the "dusty" comment? Just :stfu.

[CaptainLate]

Exactly.

Pop should have made this switch months ago when I brought it up. It makes way too much sense not to do it. You get fragile-minded Brent Barry into the starting lineup and let him get into a rhythm. Barry can space out the floor and make it easier for Parker and Duncan.

Then when Manu comes off the bench, it's over. No team can match his energy coming off the bench. If the game is close, Manu will blow it open.

This move is genius. The only bad part is Pop should have gone with this lineup when I originally brought it up.

I would ask for apologies, but there were too many people who called me out and who couldn't understand the difference between a move that would help the team and a "demotion".

timvp strikes again.

You were absolutely right, Timvp. However, I wasn't on this Forum back then so I won't apologize. LOL Just like it took the MRose trade to see the value of Horry, it took a Devin Brown injury to make folks realize what Bones could bring to the table. Pop's mistake was automatically giving the starting job to Manu this year. (Heck, the guy was up for Sixth Man of the Year in 2004.) He should have said that SG this year was going to be open to competition. Well, better late than never. But the Spurs better win Game 3 or the Nuggets' confidence is back and it could be over.

[2centsworth]

Yeah, I hear people say retire temporarily all the time.

[Kori Ellis]

Pop's mistake was automatically giving the starting job to Manu this year. (Heck, the guy was up for Sixth Man of the Year in 2004.) He should have said that SG this year was going to be open to competition.

I wonder how many fans would have been able to accept that in the beginning of the season. Was Manu "owed" the starting job?

Do you think the Spurs would have won more games in the regular season if he came off the bench all year?

I know it's all hindsight now, but it's fun to think about.

[Kori Ellis]

I suggest you back out of this thread and any other snide comments you'd like to make about timvp not talking to you in person, or about dusty or whatever you can do it on IM.

This thread needs to get back on track.

[CaptainLate]

I wonder how many fans would have been able to accept that in the beginning of the season. Was Manu "owed" the starting job?

Do you think the Spurs would have won more games in the regular season if he came off the bench all year?

I know it's all hindsight now, but it's fun to think about.

Interesting question, Kori. They may well have won more. But, if Barry had won the starting SG competition, then Manu wouldn't be so worn out. Thanks to the Olympics, we've got a tired Manu and our #1 player with a weak ankle that won't be 100% till an offseason of staying off it. Thank heavens France didn't qualify or we'd be a #5 seed. LOL

[stéphane]

BULLSHIT!
Same minutes??? You have to be kidding me, right??????????
Your boy played like crap last POs when it did matter same as last game...Manu got "promoted" to the bench and u have the nerve to say u would be cool w/Tony in the same situation?
Guess what? U will never be in the same situation coz TP is Pop's golden- frankenstein-boy creation. He has divine protection (as well as all the sharp shooter sgs Spurs get in the off season). :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss
first read then think then post thx.
i didn't say it would happen or anything, i just say i would be cool with it. But yeah sorry beno isn't brent barry... :angel

[stéphane]

here's a quote from TP's ITW (postgame)

Brent Barry was starting instead of Manu Ginobili. Why ?

It's simply to give him some confidence. With me taking the ball inside and Tim Duncan pulling two defenders most of the time, Brent has some open 3 pointers. It's easier for him to play with us than with the bench. For Manu, it's not a problem. He needs noone to score. It doesn't affect his PT. As always, he will play 30 minutes a game.

Either you're looking for the best for the spurs or you don't care and let speak some kind of Manu's supporters pride. Choose your side.

[EasilyAmused]

"I was disappointed last year, but then I was still a little doubtful about my career," Ginobili said. "I didn't know if I belonged here that much.

"This year, I know who I am. I know the team respects me. I know Pop does, too. And I know it's good for the team, so it's no big deal."

"I said if you feel it's going to help us, I'm ready to do it," Ginobili said. "We all have only one goal. That's winning the championship."


Awww what a class act! :makeout

Like I said, yes I was disappointed as a fan of Manu but I have read enough posts in this forum that I know many would feel the same if it was their favorite player, which there is nothing wrong in being passionate towards your favorites. :)

All in all it was a good move it worked and above all it helped the whole team! :elephant



Did anyone catch the Pop conference after the game? They asked him how Manu responded to being told he was going to come off the bench; Pop said, "He asked to be traded"

Cute! :lol

[diego]

well, if duncan shot 70% instead of 30 like gm

[beirmeistr]

As a bigtime Ginobili fan, I have mixed feelings about his switch from starter to bench player. I understand that a coach has the responsibility to utilize his players the best way he sees fit, but, at the same time, if manu has played his heart out all season and has been outstanding in his play, does he not deserve to be a starter?
Most fans will support this move because of the fantastic results in game 2, but game 2 was special----coming off a loss, Duncan not playing well in 4th qtr, TP not playing well, etc. Who knows how the game would have turned out with Manu as the starter? A plausible soothing explanation for the switch is that Manu gets tired and needs his rest. But this tiredness is only a 2005 occurrence. I don't believe that was the reason for Hedo's promotion to starter last season---that Manu got tired. If manu were handling 40 minutes a game right now, the switch might still have happened, but the explanation would be similar to hedo's case---so barry could get his confidence. If it's a temporary thing for the playoffs, especially considering the battered bench, I understand the move. Anything to try for the championship.
But if Manu rests this summer and comes back in good shape for next season, I think he should get back his starting position next year.
PS--I don't have anything against Barry. I like his play, especially when he and manu are on the floor together.

[Nikos]

Honestly I really do not give a shit. I want this team to play well enough to win the championship.

I want Duncan to be healthy, cause if he is the team always has a chance. I want Manu to play his best game and bring it in crunch time as well. I want Parker to be a steady force in every game. And I want Barry to play like the shooter and cerebral player he is.

One thing I do not know if I agree with yet is that Manu will play better in crunch time by playing less minutes. I do not think he is excellent at creating a jump shot in the clutch, especially when hes not feeling it from the outside. He can drive, and he actually did drive right a few times in Game 2. But I do not think he will always get the chance or have the comfort zone to always take over in the clutch. Duncan will get his touches, and I fear the team will resort to that shaky clutch offense at times.

That is why I would like the Spurs to put games away earlier, so it does not come down to making shots on a few remaining possesions that almost single handedly decide the game.

I want Manu to make his mark on both ends, and with his passing. I like it when Manu and Barry are teamed together, but it won't happen if the Spurs struggle on O and Pop gets itchy and sticks to his defense mode (even when the other team looks more comfortable on O, and the Spurs can't buy a basket).

Honestly, if Duncan plays close to 100% every game, there is no reason they should lose to this Nugget team. They do not have a goto player near the calibur of Duncan, and actually their best offensive players aren't even any superior to TP or Ginobili.

The Spurs are better on D, and SHOULD be better on offense. Duncan playing rusty and the Spurs choking on offense is the way they may lose this series.

But if Duncan plays to form, they should not lose this series.

I want to see how he looks in Denver.

And I pray that Barry keeps hitting those open jumpers. It can only help the team. I also hope Manu can keep up the efficient offense, and energetic defense. And lastly, Parker NEEDS to make an impact EVERY game. Somehow, some way. He should at least match Miller's intensity and overall play every night. He is certainly just as talented, if not more so.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

the fact remains that this was still a demotion, if anything by definition alone.

but manu's so awesome he doesnt let that phase him or affect his performance.

it speaks well on both pop and manu.

[Dex]

"Yeah, because being a starter is the most important thing in the world."
-Speedy Claxton

[Athenea]

Ducks, what is your issue with Manu?

You have very subtle ways of bashing him.
Ducks is a Tony parker azz kisser. Not really hard to figure it out :rolleyes

[Athenea]

here's a quote from TP's ITW (postgame)

Brent Barry was starting instead of Manu Ginobili. Why ?

It's simply to give him some confidence. With me taking the ball inside and Tim Duncan pulling two defenders most of the time, Brent has some open 3 pointers. It's easier for him to play with us than with the bench. For Manu, it's not a problem. He needs noone to score. It doesn't affect his PT. As always, he will play 30 minutes a game.

That's TP's issue...he needs to be the only one taking it to the hole.
Game in Denver: Tony and altitude excuse again...he is too young blah blah blah
If he can't play in crunch time he is undeserving of being a starter in a championship caliber team. Period.
Don't accuse me of being a homer coz you r not MR. Objectivity yourself.

[stéphane]

That's TP's issue...he needs to be the only one taking it to the hole.
Game in Denver: Tony and altitude excuse again...he is too young blah blah blah
If he can't play in crunch time he is undeserving of being a starter in a championship caliber team. Period.
Don't accuse me of being a homer coz you r not MR. Objectivity yourself.
LMAO you chose your side?

[Phonzie20]

LMAO you chose your side?

I prefer Taco Bell.

[Athenea]

LMAO you chose your side?
I see you chose yours...the coward way.
Adress any of my takes and then we talk.

[Phonzie20]

I see you chose yours...the coward way.
Adress any of my takes and then we talk.

you are a fiesty one aren't you?

[Guru of Nothing]

I prefer Taco Bell.

There is a football forum here if you wish to discuss Denver Bronco running backs.

[GerM]

I really don't think that it would make such a big difference if manu started or not, some of you guys don't seem to realize that on Game 1 TD played really bad, in game 2 he played excelent. Don't you guys think that HE is the difference maker and not barry?His shots weren't even on the clutch
Also I'm not sure if this would be a permanent change, it will probably so for the denver series, but i don't think it will be so for the next team. There could even be the possibility that he planned to rest him from the begining and only benched him to have him fresh for the 4th.

[MeAndBobThrowChairs]

ya there is no way this is permanent.

[timvp]

ya there is no way this is permanent.

If Pop is smart it is.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

It makes no sense... you can simply start Manu and bench him a couple of minutes later.... oh well... i could expect them to shake things up if we were 0-2, but doing it now just says Pop really thinks we´re pretty much screwed.

The reasoning behind it is to first and foremost get Barry some open shots while Tim was in. Manu can create his own shot, while Barry is much more effective spotting up (although that's a bone of contention for some on this forum). The other thing this allows is for Manu to guard (and squish like a bug) Boykins. Manu is a much better defender than Barry. To me, that defensive adjustment was a huge change from game one and brought Denver's offense to a screeching halt when Miller sat.

Chill out people. We staggered into the playoffs without an effective rotation. Its either win or go home now, so if something works, Pop has to keep going to the well until the other team can beat it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If Pop is smart it is.


George Karl is smart too you know

[GerM]

If barry plays better with td than manu why is manu and td 1rst in pairs in the roland ratings +/-?

[gus]

I try to keep myself cool, but this is the worst post I ever read here.

Who in the hell think that an All Star should be kept to the last quarter in order to be fresh? This is stupid reasoning. Besides what won the match was not the change of line up but the better shooting of people who is supossed to do it always ( Tim Duncan and Tony Parker ).

Since All Star game T Parker played awful and Manu and Duncan were injured, so the team suffered. Anyway since Duncan was injured no doubt that the best played and the one who showed when games did not look nice was Manu. By the way who was the one who played al least decently the 1st game?.

If you want more "spacing" why don't start the line up with Barry and Manu as PG, because in last game he was the PG in a lot of moments and sit Parker. But no, you will put Manu in the bench and after that TP talk like if he is the hero of the match, to show that film stars did not matter, you see that Chuck Barkley?. By the way, with the exception of Duncan who is a 7 footer, who is the best shooter when games are hot?

I understand that basket is a team sport, but what the heck you send to the bench the only one who shows and the only one who is nice enough to accept it. 99.99 % of the All Star would not accept and kick Pop in his balls for it, even a non All Star like Parker would not accept it.

Even TV noticed that this is shit. OK we won one game, but the reason was not the change of line up. With this concept we will loose like last year with Lakers because Hedo was playing like shit, and Manu was better but Pop kept with his idea until the end.

OK, i feel myself better now.

Gus

[Cant_Be_Faded]

we sure have gotten a big surge of posts from the argentenian fans over this..

i bet yall are pissed

[bigbendbruisebrother]

It's not about whether he's a fucking all-star or not. It's about making the adjustments necessary to beat a specific team in a 7 game series with the ultimate goal winning a championship. Manu agrees. You guys got your fix of Argentine pride last summer and it was well deserved. But this isn't about Argentina or Manu. Its about winning the goddamn NBA championship.

[ShoogarBear]

That's TP's issue...he needs to be the only one taking it to the hole.


Athenea, you completely missed the point.

TP takes it inside because that's what his strength is--pentrating. Do you want him taking jumpers?

So TP pentrating + Tim posting up = defense collapsing = Barry open.

Then he gave Manu a compliment by saying that he (Manu) didn't need that help and could score no matter who he played with.

I know maybe you're joking (some), but this thread is becoming a parody of all of the Church of Manu takes--Manu looking good comes first, the team comes second.

[Frenchise player]

Gus, the fact that you are angry makes you blind.
Where do you saw Tony act like the Hero of the game?
Barry can be a point guard, but he never played this position in our system and beginning in the playoffs is risky.
If you go back and see all the games since the All-Star-Break, you won't be able to declare that Parker played awful.

No one is contesting the fact that Manu is playing great, even Sequ isn't posting anymore about Manu. The fact is that this adjustment worked and Pop will try it again on Saturday.
Manu's popularity will be increased with how he reacted and it won't affect his chances to affect the game. The most important in a game isn't who is starting but who is finishing.

[Athenea]

Shoogar, TP sounds cocky all the time.
He can say whatever he wants...but at least u have to bring it nite in and nite out.
TP is not a reliable guy in the PO. It's not a maturity thing. It's a personality issue.
As English is not my mother language, you can go check my posts in mg.com I can explain myself better in Spanish.
Besides...if this move was made to hmm TP for Beno, in the exact same circumstances I would be disgusted anyways. It's not "Manu Church preach" or something. It's just the way to see bball, any other sport or life itself.

[ALVAREZ6]

The most important in a game isn't who is starting but who is finishing.
Right on.

[UnknownPlayer]

If I were Manu, and the Spurs wins the championship this year, and next season Pop benchs him again, I would ask to be traded. So Spurs can win easily next championships, b/c maybe there's something wrong with Manu, and trading him could be the cure

[ALVAREZ6]

If I were Manu, and the Spurs wins the championship this year, and next season Pop benchs him again, I would ask to be traded. So Spurs can win easily next championships, b/c maybe there's something wrong with Manu, and trading him could be the cure
Are you retarded?

Just wondering....

[UnknownPlayer]

Are you retarded?

Just wondering....

Creo que solamente un poco Ironico.

[ALVAREZ6]

Creo que solamente un poco Ironico.
I don't think so.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We're repeating ourselves....

Why don't we get more feedback as to whether or not you guys truely believe manu was/is content with this or not?

I sure as hell hope he is....The way some of our fellow spurs fans from Argentina make it sound, it seems like they expect him to be silently pissed

or am i reading into this wrong?

[UnknownPlayer]

I can assure you that he's a little pissed, but he won't tell anything b/c he's a team player. But I think Spurs have to be smart. This guy can't even play 25 minutes. He didn't allow us to win more games in the regular season b/c we let him start. And many times he lost games in 4Qt b/c we let him take care of the game. Just think about it.

[ChumpDumper]

The way some of our fellow spurs fans from Argentina make it sound, it seems like they expect him to be silently pissedIt's just that the Manunites are loudly pissed.

There are those who said Manu would never stand for a "demotion" to the bench this season -- that he would try to force a trade or something like that.

If this move is indeed permanent, what say you now?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Pop should send spies to the enemy camp and try to find out what's Charlie's game plan. With the extra intel from the recon mission, he will be able to make an educated decision come battle time.

[GerM]

I think he is pissed because he always has to be one who responds to others people confidence problems... Of the team stars he was the only one who played well and this is what he receives... by benching him, it is like a step back in his individual career, I'm sure that deep in himself he wants to be the best.

[Athenea]

It's just that the Manunites are loudly pissed.

There are those who said Manu would never stand for a "demotion" to the bench this season -- that he would try to force a trade or something like that.

If this move is indeed permanent, what say you now?
I would say:
RUN, MANU...RUN :lol
Asking for a trade would do it, for me.
I don't dislike the Spurs I just hate Poop.
I've seen coachs like him before...I can't stand them.

[Phonzie20]

Anyone wants nachos?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think he is pissed because he always has to be one who responds to others people confidence problems... Of the team stars he was the only one who played well and this is what he receives... by benching him, it is like a step back in his individual career, I'm sure that deep in himself he wants to be the best.

(granted this is true) Isn't that exposing that a bad characteristic of manu ginobili? He cares about being the best? a step back in his individual career?

i highly doubt ginobili thinks this way else he wouldnt be here and he wouldnt have played well last night

plus i watched the entire game and did not see one inkling of regret or annoyance in manu's posture expressions etc

[UnknownPlayer]

I think this benching move, will bring Manu to the Argentinian Team soon. :elephant

[stéphane]

I would say:
RUN, MANU...RUN :lol
Asking for a trade would do it, for me.
I don't dislike the Spurs I just hate Poop.
I've seen coachs like him before...I can't stand them.
sorry but that's really retarded...
so coming off the bench and spending 30mins and having numbers like 16ppg 5rpg are not enough when playing in a team that compete for the supreme title..
he should be traded to the Lakers minus Kobe so he could play 35mpg and get 50shoots a game score 30+ night in night out and go fishing every may...
retarded

Edit : I love Manu and the way he plays and fight for his team night in night out, but i think he's way smarter managing his career than all of you who are bitching

[Phonzie20]

sorry but that's really retarded...
so coming off the bench and spending 30mins and having numbers like 16ppg 5rpg are not enough when playing in a team that compete for the supreme title..
he should be traded to the Lakers minus Kobe so he could play 35mpg and get 50shoots a game score 30+ night in night out and go fishing every may...
retarded

Edit : I love Manu and the way he plays and fight for his team night in night out, but i think he's way smarter managing his career than all of you who are bitching


you mentioned Kobe. That's cute.

[UnknownPlayer]

But what is the big problem? Manu is useless as a starter, and he can only play 25 minutes or less. Spurs should trade him and get a better player.

[stéphane]

i mentionned minus Kobe because if Kobe is there he will take all the shots :p
but i meant as a franchise player/coach/GM of a team (all in one)

[ALVAREZ6]

Edit : I love Manu and the way he plays and fight for his team night in night out, but i think he's way smarter managing his career than all of you who are bitching
Not many of us are bitching actually, and if we are, it's only coming from frustration.

[stéphane]

But what is the big problem? Manu is useless as a starter, and he can only play 25 minutes or less. Spurs should trade him and get a better player.
retarded too. no need to explain why.

[Phonzie20]

I am quite suprised to see you are all arguing if Manu will start or not.

[ALVAREZ6]

But what is the big problem? Manu is useless as a starter, and he can only play 25 minutes or less. Spurs should trade him and get a better player.
Want me to say it again?

Manu will play more than 30 mpg next season, mark my words.

"Spurs should trade him and get a better player."

Who would you rather have, over Manu...Any player that you trade for Manu that will do a better job in San Antonio will put the Spurs over the cap, because Manu Ginobili is underpaid.

"Useless as a starter?"

Explain.

[UnknownPlayer]

'cause you can't.

Just bench him but don't trade him.

[stéphane]

we're not really arguing...
some are bitching because he may be benched, and some are bitching against the ones who bitched in the first place.
well maybe it's close to arguing :p

[ALVAREZ6]

'cause you can't.

Just bench him but don't trade him.
"Cause you can't"

WTF is that supposed to mean, and what are you referring to?

[Phonzie20]

we're not really arguing...
some are bitching because he may be benched, and some are bitching against the ones who bitched in the first place.
well maybe it's close to arguing :p

that is quite 'petty' .. if you ask me.

[UnknownPlayer]

Want me to say it again?

Manu will play more than 30 mpg next season, mark my words.

"Spurs should trade him and get a better player."

Who would you rather have, over Manu...Any player that you trade for Manu that will do a better job in San Antonio will put the Spurs over the cap, because Manu Ginobili is underpaid.

"Useless as a starter?"

Explain.

Alvarez se perfectamente de lo que es capaz Manu.
Simplemente disfrutaria verlo jugar en 82 juegos en un equipo donde se lo respete y que pueda todavia participar en la Seleccion.
En los Spurs se le exije mucho y se le agradece poco.

[GerM]

(granted this is true) Isn't that exposing that a bad characteristic of manu ginobili? He cares about being the best? a step back in his individual career?

i highly doubt ginobili thinks this way else he wouldnt be here and he wouldnt have played well last night

plus i watched the entire game and did not see one inkling of regret or annoyance in manu's posture expressions etc

Of course not, i m sure if manu had to reduce his PT to 20 to win the championship he would do it. Wining is his highest priority, but i also think that he wants to improve and get better, and being at the bench does not help him

just mi 2 cents

[ShoogarBear]

This whole thing just boggles the mind.

To recap:
1. Manu has done nothing but enhance his reputation by the way he handled coming off the bench.
2. The people in here whining about it have done nothing but besmirch theirs.
3. Manu will end up playing about the same number of minutes, and may even have better stats.
4. We don't need Manu playing 30 minutes of a 30-point blowout. We need him rested for the next two games in Denver.

[Athenea]

This whole thing just boggles the mind.

To recap:
1. Manu has done nothing but enhance his reputation by the way he handled coming off the bench.
2. The people in here whining about it have done nothing but besmirch theirs.
3. Manu will end up playing about the same number of minutes, and may even have better stats.
4. We don't need Manu playing 30 minutes of a 30-point blowout. We need him rested for the next two games in Denver.
Shoogar...u know I like u but I don't give a flying fuck of what u think about some of us bitching about this move.
Summarizing:
1-Pop is a 1-trick pony coach
2-Manu is the handy man of the team (Gods forbids the Coyote going down or else...)
3-The Frenchies can say whatever they want coz his boy is Pop's bitch
4-18 mins against 29-30 avg is not the same
5-temporally move my azz

[stéphane]

Shoogar...u know I like u but I don't give a flying fuck of what u think about some of us bitching about this move.
Summarizing:
1-Pop is a 1-trick pony coach
2-Manu is the handy man of the team (Gods forbids the Coyote going down or else...)
3-The Frenchies can say whatever they want coz his boy is Pop's bitch
4-18 mins against 29-30 avg is not the same
5-temporally move my azz
mmm whatever (<--- frenchman saying whatever)
we dont give a flying fuck aswell you support Manu. I support the spurs then TP.
quite different. I now understand you, but keep in mind its a spurs board not a manu board ;)

[ChumpDumper]

Just curious, since this is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of organized sport, what would the Manunites have done to adjust between games one and two?

Don't be shy.

[ALVAREZ6]

mmm whatever (<--- frenchman saying whatever)
we dont give a flying fuck aswell you support Manu. I support the spurs then TP.
quite different. I now understand you, but keep in mind its a spurs board not a manu board ;)
Don't tell me that if TP was traded, you will still favor the Spurs over his new team in a game.

[kolko]

Manu replied in his forum to all the users that were saying "things":

http://manuginobili.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19512

Me explican por favor que estan diciendo???

Y de que hablan cuando dicen cosas como por ejemplo:

- Manu puede pagar un precio muy caro

- El danio ya esta hecho y lo agarra en el mejor momento de su carrera.

- TP juega un mal partido y que hace Pop nada...

- El banco no funciona y que pasa? sacrificamos a Manu.

y mas etc etc etc... que estamos diciendo??

En que me estoy sacrificando?? saben cual es la unica diferencia?? que no juego los primeros 6', que son los que todos estan frios y mas intracendentes, despues los primeros 5' del 2do tiempo. Donde esta todo el problema?? Que danio me estan haciendo?? el unico que esta arriesgando es el! ya que si perdemos o la pateo tanto yo de suplente como Barry de titular, lo van a matar a el. Que precio muy caro puedo pagar?? si vos lo miras egoisticamente, tengo todo por ganar...

Las razones, las compartan o no, fueron entendibles.

Tampoco vamos a decir que ganamos por 30 por el cambio, porque no es verdad, esta claro, pero si quieren, miren los nros de los minutos del anio pasado como suplente y de este como titular. 29.6 este anio, 29.4 el pasado!!! tanta diferencia??

Si ademas de hacer lo mismo, ayuda a un companiero a empezar mejor y que rinda mas, no lo harian??? a ver... quiero saber sus opiniones.

Un abrazo.

pd: El anio pasado no dije que lo entendia, que me parecia barbaro y demas... dije que no me habia gustado, pero lo acepte y trate de hacerlo bien. Esta vez se lo dije desde el primer momento en que me lo insinuo.

Translated:


Can you explain me what are you saying?

And what are you talking when you say things like this:

-Manu can pay an expensive price

-The damage has already been done and it comes in the best part of his career.

-TP plays a bad game and Pop doesn't do anything

-The bench doesn't works and what happens? We sacrifice Manu

And more etc etc etc, what are we saying?

In what aspects I am sacrificing? Do you know which is the only difference? That I don't play the first six minutes of the game, where everyone are cold and worthless, and then the first five minutes of the second half. Where is the problem? What danger are they doing me? The only one risking is him! If we lose or we play bad with me as a sub or Barry as a starter, they will kill him. What expensive price can I pay? If you look it as selfish, I have all to win...

The reasons, whatever you share it or not, were understandable.

We also don't say that we won by 30 because of the change, because that's not true, but if you want, look at the numbers of minutes I played last year from the bench and this year as a starter. 29.6 this year and 29.4 last year!!! That's a lot of difference??

And if you do that and at the same time you help a teammate to start to play better, won't you do it??? I want to know your opinions.

A hug.

ps: Last year I didn't say that I understand it and that I like it. I said that I didn't like it, but I accept it and tried to do it ok. Now I told him that from the first moment he told me about that.

[ALVAREZ6]

Just curious, since this is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of organized sport, what would the Manunites have done to adjust between games one and two?

Don't be shy.
Stop being a smart ass.

I have no idea what I would have done, but I'll tell you one thing, Pop's plan would be much smarter than mine!

I think Pop's idea is reasonable, and if it works, and manu keeps his minutes, then it's great.

But I will say one thing: If this "temporary" change carries over to next season, then F*CK Pop!

[ChumpDumper]

A hug.Well, at least Manu was nice about punking you all.

[ChumpDumper]

Stop being a smart ass.Impossible.
I have no idea what I would have done, but I'll tell you one thing, Pop's plan would be much smarter than mine!It was. This was directed at the more militant Manunites out there. Apologies for mixing you in with them.
But I will say one thing: If this "temporary" change carries over to next season, then F*CK Pop!Why? Even if it makes Manu's team much better?

[ALVAREZ6]

Well, at least Manu was nice about punking you all.
Who's you all?

[ChumpDumper]

Who's you all?See previous post.

[stéphane]

Don't tell me that if TP was traded, you will still favor the Spurs over his new team in a game.
Honestly i follow SA for ten years but even more since TP joined them...
If TP would be traded i would stick for SA and still have a look on what TP aswell as B. Diaw and M. Pietrus are doing in their own teams. But i would spend more time and wouldn't post anymore.
The thing is, as a french i can contribute a bit by having infos in french about a starter of the team, that's why i post otherwise i would just keep reading without posting.

[E20]

OMG, you people really have to and go look at the messages for Manu thread for the english version!!!

http://manuginobili.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19197

[ALVAREZ6]

.Why? Even if it makes Manu's team much better?
Because this is the playoffs, and all I want is a win.

Also, I want Manu to keep improving, and I think it would only be fair to start him. The only reason pop did this change is because we were desperate for something, because no one wanted to lose game 1. We needed to be positive that we would win game 2.

I just think that it wouldn't be right to start off a season like that.

With a healthy team, and the regular starting line up, the Spurs were the best in the NBA.

[ALVAREZ6]

Honestly i follow SA for ten years but even more since TP joined them...
If TP would be traded i would stick for SA and still have a look on what TP aswell as B. Diaw and M. Pietrus are doing in their own teams. But i would spend more time and wouldn't post anymore.
The thing is, as a french i can contribute a bit by having infos in french about a starter of the team, that's why i post otherwise i would just keep reading without posting.
I understand. The point I was trying to make earlier is that it is only naturally to like a team because a player from your country is on that team, especially when your country doesn't have many players in the league.( 2 examples: France and Argentina)

[Athenea]

Well, at least Manu was nice about punking you all.
Chumper the bullie Dumper at it again...
Remember last season, dear?
Who ate crow in the end?
I guess it was hmmm...U

Bah...I ate my share also coz I wanted the Spurs to win or at least beat the Lakers... :depressed

[ChumpDumper]

The only reason pop did this change is because we were desperate for somethingMaybe he had this in the back of his mind all along and was just looking for a catalyst to make the change. [/speculation]

Really, if Barry and Nazr play better as starters and Manu and Rasho play the same or better off the bench, I'm all for making that move. Having a great starting lineup and the hands-down best second unit in the league is a pretty exciting prospect.

[stéphane]

I understand. The point I was trying to make earlier is that it is only naturally to like a team because a player from your country is on that team, especially when your country doesn't have many players in the league.( 2 examples: France and Argentina)
yeah i understood aswell. Nice understanding lol.
I was sooo happy when TP joined the spurs ! ;) I like Manu a lot too honestly. Love the way he fights and sweat for his mates. I just state for 10posts or so that being starter or not isn't a big deal as long as it doesn't hurt manu's play and makes the team better. Manu doesn't need to look for some more respect.
He's already one of the greatest players in the league and the way he is on the court (hustling and playing unselfishly) makes him even greater.
He's one of the 3 biggest weapon of the Best team in the league wether starting or coming off the bench. Nobody want to retrieve him anything. We all thing that you can play him with anyone he's still good on the court. Barry isn't.

[ChumpDumper]

Starting Hedo made no difference in the playoffs -- he would've disappeared regardless. Manu played better off the bench and played the same amount of time. The move has already made a huge difference in this playoffs. Are you goign to deny that?

You said Manu would leave last summer, didn't you?

Again, what adjustment would you have made between games one and two?

We're waiting.

[ALVAREZ6]

Really, if Barry and Nazr play better as starters and Manu and Rasho play the same or better off the bench, I'm all for making that move.
That's easy for you to say.

Argentina was never known for it's basketball until recent times, and most of the "bitchers" just want the best for Manu.

Why don't you put yourself in my position.

[SequSpur]

Manu can't play more than 20 minutes. Barry can. Barry might miss some shots, but he doesn't make stupid mistakes by forcing the issue.

Pop made a great call for once.

[ChumpDumper]

That's easy for you to say.Yes, it is very easy for me to say because I want the Spurs to be the best team they can possibly be.
Argentina was never known for it's basketball until recent times, and most of the "bitchers" just want the best for Manu.The best team possible = more championships for Manu. I understand if this isn't important to you.
Why don't you put yourself in my position.I did, and concluded your reasoning isn't in the best interest of the San Antonio Spurs.

[ALVAREZ6]

I did, and concluded your reasoning isn't in the best interest of the San Antonio Spurs.
Actually it is.

I am just saying what some people think about Manu being benched, and it makes sense.

[ChumpDumper]

Look at it this way, if all I wanted was individual accolades for Tim Duncan, I'd be pissy about his minutes being "cut for the benefit of inferior players." He's nowhere near getting MVP this year largely for this reason -- so it's valid, right?

If I really took this position, I'd be an idiot.

[Athenea]

Starting Hedo made no difference in the playoffs -- he would've disappeared regardless. Manu played better off the bench and played the same amount of time. The move has already made a huge difference in this playoffs. Are you goign to deny that?

You said Manu would leave last summer, didn't you?

Again, what adjustment would you have made between games one and two?

We're waiting.
You want more than u got last year?
Hahahahaha I trashed u to death. U must be a sado-masoquist or something, Mr Hedo>Manu hahahahha

[ChumpDumper]

Actually it is.Again, what do you think should have been doen instead of this? I don't need another cop out.