The Popovich/Larry Brown defensive rotation scheme.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Can anyone explain the defensive rotation scheme these guys run? Im just interested to see how it works and how complicated it really is..if there is a website explaining it that would work too.

[Man In Black]

A lot of Pop's D team rotations aren't just his and Larry's. Much of what he does was started by Hank Egan. Pop's coach at Air Force. He was an Assistant with the Spurs but followed Mike Brown to Cleveland. When Egan was coach at the University of San Diego, Mike Brown played for him there.

[Bruno]

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/assistmagazines/2003/05/mag_0305.pdf

The quote listed above from Pop was taken from this article written by Pop for a FIBA sponsored coaches clinic in Belgrade in the summer of 2003 (p. 20). It's old but it's still Pop's philosophy. Sorry TP.

[Man In Black]

A lot of what worked for Pop's teams in the past was to have a stopper. In 99, Sean was that guy. The Ninja had just enough athleticism, just enough length, and savvy, to be a pest to all wing players. He did it well enough to win a title in 99. Then the Spurs got Bruce and he filled that role perfectly to the tue of 3 titles.
Now, they don't have a guy they can place on an island with the premier scorers or distributors. While Bogans has the want-to, he doesn't have either the length or athleticism. He does fine in stretches, but hasn't yet done it consistently when championship moments are required. RJ has the athleticism, but doesn't yet have the smarts. If only there was a way to combine them.

[Obstructed_View]

I think you mean the Popovich/Don Nelson defensive rotation scheme.

[HarlemHeat37]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_42_228/ai_n6249318/

A little old..Brown's strategies seem the same though, except there's more swarming when the ball is sent inside..his defense usually relies on his frontcourt defending the others straight-up, but it's obviously different when you don't have Rasheed and Ben Wallace..

[Chieflion]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_42_228/ai_n6249318/

A little old..Brown's strategies seem the same though, except there's more swarming when the ball is sent inside..his defense usually relies on his frontcourt defending the others straight-up, but it's obviously different when you don't have Rasheed and Ben Wallace..
Still works though, his team is winning with defense and defense alone.

[HarlemHeat37]

Definitely..Gerald Wallace is absolutely perfect for Brown's scheme..

They swarmed the shit out of the Spurs in the last game, our guys couldn't handle it..

[TheSpursFNRule]

Thanks a lot all of these have helped. Are there any diagrams explaining how a rotation scheme works and shows where the players are supposed to go throughout a rotation?

[greyforest]

Thanks a lot all of these have helped. Are there any diagrams explaining how a rotation scheme works and shows where the players are supposed to go throughout a rotation?

yes, look at that .pdf page 20-24ish

[Danny.Zhu]

Great stuff, thanks.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This is key:


A lot of what worked for Pop's teams in the past was to have a stopper. In 99, Sean was that guy. The Ninja had just enough athleticism, just enough length, and savvy, to be a pest to all wing players. He did it well enough to win a title in 99. Then the Spurs got Bruce and he filled that role perfectly to the tue of 3 titles.
Now, they don't have a guy they can place on an island with the premier scorers or distributors. While Bogans has the want-to, he doesn't have either the length or athleticism. He does fine in stretches, but hasn't yet done it consistently when championship moments are required. RJ has the athleticism, but doesn't yet have the smarts. If only there was a way to combine them.

It was a Big 4, not a Big 3.

Take a look at the FIBA document, it's really interesting.

I'd like to add that we shouldn't forget the rule changes (particularly hand-checking on the perimeter) that have given more power to the athletic slashers and shifted the balance of power across the entire NBA towards offense.

We won four championships based on a slow-down, possession and control, defensive game with scores in the 80s (even though in both 2005 and 2007 we showed that we could play at all speeds). That philosophy may not fit the winning model in the 'New NBA'. Effectively, this team is no longer able to employ the strategy that won it championships - stopping the other team from scoring for long periods almost at will - and we're not yet athletic enough or good enough offensively to compensate for the decline in the defense.

Pop needs to decide on a new identity for the team, and I wonder if it might not be wise to modify "the system" he's used successfully for a decade to adapt to a new NBA based on offense and athleticism. Will he be able to do that? And where will he find the players he needs to get it done? Those are the looming questions.

Great posts by everyone. You all get a Raising the Bar medal for this one! ;) :toast

[kace]

I'd like to add that we shouldn't forget the rule changes (particularly hand-checking on the perimeter) that have given more power to the athletic slashers and shifted the balance of power across the entire NBA towards offense.


so what ? The spurs clearly benefited from this rule with TP. Indeed, TP is exactly the kind of player who has directly benefited from this rule change, and it has largely impacted the spurs gameplan.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

so what ? The spurs clearly benefited from this rule with TP. Indeed, TP is exactly the kind of player who has directly benefited from this rule change, and it has largely impacted the spurs gameplan.

No, we haven't benefitted at all. We have no-one who can even slow down perimeter scorers. Oh, and TP was ripping teams up with his penetration even under the old rules (ie. 2007 and before).

[phxspurfan]

Great thread. I really found the FIBA document informative. I knew our defense wasn't supposed to allow people to go middle but didn't know about our corner 3 defense or the reasons why we pressure and don't against certain teams and in certain situations. Very cool stuff and a fun read.

[kace]

No, we haven't benefitted at all. We have no-one who can even slow down perimeter scorers. Oh, and TP was ripping teams up with his penetration even under the old rules (ie. 2007 and before).

hand-checking rule is from 2008 ? i really thought it was older.

[objective]

I think the last time the league modified hand-checking rules was before the 04-05 season.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

[kace]

I think the last time the league modified hand-checking rules was before the 04-05 season.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

thanks. that's what i was talking about.

so, i keep on saying that the game has evolved in a way that has clearly benefited to players like TP (scoring PG, PnR player....). and that since the beginning of TP's career (and even before); not since 2008 like Ruff said.

and the way TP has played has a lot to do with the spurs gameplan these last years, and so their success. so to complain about these rules for a Spurs fan isn't fair.

[StoneBuddha]

Thanks for passing on the article. I liked it and it was insightful. I guess I can understand now why new players have problems adopting to the Spurs defensive system.

For years, they've been told to see ball and man and be in good helpside position, but once they came to the Spurs, they have to fight that natural instinct (that's been beaten into them since they were kids) to provide help if they are only one pass away from the ball. And one player messing up kills the system.