Nat. Rev.: The Pro-Life Comeback

[spursncowboys]

The Pro-Life Comeback of 2009 -- By: Michael J. New (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTcxODZhYTBiNGMwYjY5MDE3N2VjNDljNzcwOWM2ZDA=)

from National Review Online (http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2Findex.xml) by [email protected] (Michael J. New)
In the aftermath of the 2008 election, offering advice to Republicans became a cottage industry among Beltway pundits. For the most part, it was the same advice Republicans always receive when their candidates fare poorly: Moderate your positions on abortion and other social issues and focus on defense and fiscal policy. Even many conservative analysts agreed with this line of thought.

It’s no secret that the pro-life movement lost significant ground during the 2008 elections. However, the events of 2009 have clearly demonstrated the movement’s resiliency and heft. Indeed, it is safe to say that pro-lifers have been the most effective opponents of Obamacare. Their efforts on this issue alone show unmistakably that the right-to-life movement is an indispensable part of the center-right coalition.

There is plenty of evidence that the pro-life movement has made gains in the court of public opinion during the past several years. For instance, the pro-choice governors who were once thought to be the future of the Republican party (Whitman, Wilson, Weld) have vanished from the political scene. Furthermore, the infighting over the party’s pro-life platform plank has greatly diminished.

More important, Democrats have made a concerted (if less than convincing) effort to reach out to pro-life voters, or at least to avoid offending them. John Kerry and Barack Obama carefully avoided mentioning the party’s support for legal abortion during their acceptance speeches at the 2004 and 2008 Democratic conventions. When asked about abortion, President Obama usually talks about the need to reduce it and to find common ground. Furthermore, many Democrats make the argument (unpersuasively) that expanding welfare programs and increasing funding for contraceptives would be an effective strategy for reducing abortions.

In May the pro-life movement got additional evidence of its gains in public support. A Gallup poll found that 51 percent of Americans describe themselves as pro-life, while only 42 percent describe themselves as pro-choice. This was the first time that a Gallup survey has found a higher percentage of Americans on the pro-life side.

Not surprisingly, the mainstream media was quick to dismiss the results. Some argued that most of the pro-life public-opinion gains were the result of an anti-Obama backlash from registered Republicans. Other media outlets released surveys of their own that purportedly showed more modest changes in public opinion toward abortion. However, later that spring and into the summer, a number of surveys, including those taken by the Polling Company, Gallup, Rasmussen, Fox News, and Pew, all showed a substantial increase in the number of people either willing to identify themselves as pro-life or willing to support greater restrictions on abortion.

The increased influence of the pro-life movement is perhaps most conspicuous in the ongoing debate over health-care reform. The pro-life movement has a number of reasons to be concerned about health-policy changes. For instance, suppose abortion became a federally mandated health-care benefit. That could potentially do away with a number of state-level laws, including parental-involvement statutes and informed-consent laws, that the pro-life movement has worked tirelessly to enact. Furthermore, if the government subsidized insurance plans that cover abortion, that could make abortions easier to obtain and thereby increase the abortion rate.

The pro-life movement was in a unique position to create effective opposition to Obamacare. Most of the proposed reform plans include an individual health-insurance mandate, coupled with federal subsidies for low-income earners. This created a politically difficult decision for the Obama administration: Should these federal subsidies apply to health-insurance plans that cover abortion?

If abortion subsidies were explicitly excluded, the effects would extend far beyond low-income earners, due to the interlocking nature of Obamacare’s many rules and regulations. Health insurers would be required to offer their plans through a regulated exchange, and if plans covering abortion were excluded from federal subsidies, that would effectively amount to banning them entirely.



This would provoke outrage on the left, especially since pro-choice activists hate to lose ground. In the late 1990s, they vigorously fought proposals to ban partial-birth abortions. They often oppose even basic health and safety regulations for abortion clinics. Considering the influence the abortion lobby has over the Democratic party, it was not about to fall on its sword for the sake of Obamacare.

President Obama was left with no option but to let federal funds subsidize health-insurance plans that cover abortion. This proved problematic for several reasons. First, whatever their personal preferences about abortion, most Americans oppose government funding of it. Second, the Democratic party has recruited many pro-life candidates to run in conservative districts, and these Democrats would find it hard to support health-care reform that includes public funding for abortion. Finally, President Obama and other Democrats sound disingenuous when they say they want to reduce the incidence of abortion, but then subsidize it through health-care reform.

To defend the Democrats’ scheme, President Obama and his team have aggressively tried to spin away the problems posed by abortion funding. For instance, the Third Way, a progressive think tank, argued unpersuasively that Obamacare’s increased funding for contraception would lower abortion rates, so it would be a net gain for pro-lifers. Obama and other Democrats have also offered number of phony compromises. Most of these would give individuals the option to purchase a health-insurance plan that did not include coverage for abortion, but plans that do cover abortion would still be available -- and subsidized with taxpayer dollars.

The pro-life movement, wisely, has not bought into this spin. Throughout the debate over health-care reform, it has insisted on an explicit ban on federal abortion funding and has offered clear and vocal opposition to any compromise proposals. Pro-lifers realize that abortion funding is a very effective wedge issue dividing moderate Democrats from Obama and his liberal base. Indeed, more than anything else, the conflict over abortion funding is responsible for the delay, and quite possibly the eventual defeat, of Obamacare.

As pro-lifers gather in Washington, D.C., this Friday for the 37th annual March for Life, we should take heart. Many observers were willing to dismiss abortion opponents as irrelevant just twelve months ago. Instead the pro-life movement rallied and enjoyed a successful year. We made impressive gains in public approval and exerted considerable influence in the debate over health-care reform. All of this bodes well for more substantial policy gains the future.

-- Michael J. New is an assistant professor of political science at the University of Alabama and is a fellow at the Witherspoon Institute in Princeton, N.J.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, most are personally against abortion. That's not the issue.

[Nbadan]

Watch the Operation Rescue President lie threw his teeth over and over again...what an asshat...


MG08mAIsV6s

[ploto]

I'm pro-life and I can not personally stand most pro-life people.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I am pro- lets-reduce-abortions-with-sex-education-and-birth-control kind of guy. I don't think anyone likes that abortion is happening but we cannot make people do things to themselves. Let's reduce abortions..

[boutons_deux]

The pro-lifers need to go anti-life on a lot more abortionists.

Nobody likes abortion, just as nobody likes smoker's lung cancer, but we don't see the pro-lifers campaigning to make suicide-by-smoking illegal or blowing up cigarette factories (or saying anything at all about cigarettes).

We don't even hear the pro-lifers, mostly so-called "Christians", being against the bogus war in Iraq, or being pro-enviroment to protect the natural lives of everything.

The pro-lifers are selective about which lives they care about, ie, they are profoundly hypocritical.

[exstatic]

I am pro- lets-reduce-abortions-with-sex-education-and-birth-control kind of guy. I don't think anyone likes that abortion is happening but we cannot make people do things to themselves. Let's reduce abortions..

You're NEVER going to STOP abortions. Even adamant "pro-life" elements probably acknowledge that abortions took place, even when it was illegal. Your always better of trying to convince people of something than to force it by law. When you become intractable, so does your opponent. That doesn't help anything.

[Yonivore]

You're NEVER going to STOP abortions. Even adamant "pro-life" elements probably acknowledge that abortions took place, even when it was illegal. Your always better of trying to convince people of something than to force it by law. When you become intractable, so does your opponent. That doesn't help anything.
You're never going to stop murder either. Your logic suggests it, too, should be legal.

[ChumpDumper]

You're never going to stop murder either. Your logic suggests it, too, should be legal.I am not surprised you want to lock up scared teenage girls. Makes you feel like a big man, eh?

[spursncowboys]

I am not surprised you want to lock up scared teenage girls. Makes you feel like a big man, eh?
You're are talking about the murder of a baby.

[baseline bum]

If I was a member of Congress voting on its legality, I'd probably make it illegal, but only on the condition that comprehensive sex education, including the truth about condom use, is taught. The pull-out method and how it goes against every fiber of human instinct should be also be addressed, since among HS students, it is the most widely-used form of "contraception".

[ChumpDumper]

You're are talking about the murder of a baby.So you also want to lock up scared teenage girls?

Big man....

How long do you want to lock them up?

Or do you just want to kill them?

[spursncowboys]

So you also want to lock up scared teenage girls?

Big man....

How long do you want to lock them up?

Or do you just want to kill them?

The real crime is people like you who want to teach that abortion isn't a big deal to teenage girls who will have to carry that for the rest of their life, while you go through patting yourself on the back.

Furthermore it is preposterous to assume that a large amount of people would brake the law.

[ChumpDumper]

The real crime is people like you who want to teach that abortion isn't a big deal to teenage girls who will have to carry that for the rest of their life, while you go through patting yourself on the back.I guess you want to kill me too.

You didn't answer any of the questions.

How long do you want the scared teenage girls in jail?

Would you want to kill them since you consider it murder?

Please answer these questions.


Furthermore it is preposterous to assume that a large amount of people would brake the law.How many do you assume will "brake" the law?

Give me a number per year.

[spursncowboys]

How long do you want the scared teenage girls in jail?

Why are people always poor and scared. They aren't victims. It dehumanizes people when you start thinking about them in belittling terms. Just like welfare, you'll end up destroying their lives in the name of help. As to your legitimate question, leave the girls alone and put the doctors in jail.


How many do you assume will "brake" the law?

Give me a number per year. Probably the same per year before abortion was legal.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are people always poor and scared. They aren't victims. It dehumanizes people when you start thinking about them in belittling terms. Just like welfare, you'll end up destroying their lives in the name of help. As to your legitimate question, leave the girls alone and put the doctors in jail.So those girls will be free to murder more babies?

Dozens?

Scores of them?

With no consequences!

Nice.

A real law and order type you are.

[ChumpDumper]

Probably the same per year before abortion was legal.And how many was that?

[jack sommerset]

It's murder.

[ChumpDumper]

It's murder.So you want to lock up the teenage girls too?

[DarkReign]

First, I would never condone an abortion from anyone.

But, I would never make it illegal.

With that said, pro-lifers, as it were, are entertaining. When I think of "Things This Country Needs", broke-ass, un-wed teenage mothers raising broke-ass, undereducated babies isnt one of them.

Nevermind the impending exponential increase in foster children, which means more foster homes...and if you know anything about some of them, you'd know youre sentencing a portion of these children to basically a living hell.

I dont want to pay for idiots mistakes. The world is better off.

My rationale, anyway.

[jack sommerset]

So you want to lock up the teenage girls too?

Teenage girls are not the only ones that have abortions. I'm going with what the laws says on this one and if it changes, I will change right along with it. Abortion is murder.

[TeyshaBlue]

I dont want to pay for idiots mistakes

DR, I'd like to introduce you to the Senate. Warning: You're gonna hate em.:lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

Teenage girls are not the only ones that have abortions. I'm going with what the laws says on this one and if it changes, I will change right along with it. Abortion is murder.

and jack is ready for his taxes to go up to care of this new population..thanks jack!

[spursncowboys]

DR, I'd like to introduce you to the Senate. Warning: You're gonna hate em.:lol
That was hellishly awesome!!:toast

[ChumpDumper]

Teenage girls are not the only ones that have abortions. How long should they go to jail? Give us some numbers.But they have abortions.
I'm going with what the laws says on this one and if it changes, I will change right along with it. Abortion is murder.Way to not take a stand after pretending to take a stand, then pretend to take a stand again.

[spursncowboys]

and jack is ready for his taxes to go up to care of this new population..thanks jack!
So wait you are for welfare and medicare, which is what most of our taxes go to, but when it is used to stop the murder of innocent children-that is when you become a fiscal conservative? Also there is no historical data that taxes were lowered when abortion was legalized, so why would taxes go up?

[jack sommerset]

and jack is ready for his taxes to go up to care of this new population..thanks jack!

Son, it's murder. If you are worried about higher taxes, kick out the 15 million illegals here in the USA and stop killing babies.

You don't have to worry about people killing babies anyhow. People like you accept it and our laws protect you. I doubt you even really given these babies much thought. It's just another poitical topic to you. Make no mistake, you are killing.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Son, it's murder. If you are worried about higher taxes, kick out the 15 million illegals here in the USA and stop killing babies.

You don't have to worry about people killing babies anyhow. People like you accept it and our laws protect you. I doubt you even really given these babies much thought. It's just another poitical topic to you. Make no mistake, you are killing.

And your not God so you shouldn't be judging anybody.


on a side note jack your interested in regulating people's sex lives. If you would just accpet that it's ok to talk of contraceptives to the youth today that alone would reduce the number of pregnancies.. but again your more interested in the politics of abortion than actually trying to lower the abortions going forward.

[jack sommerset]

And your not God so you shouldn't be judging anybody.

LOL @ judging. It's murder. You should go take a peak at some of the pics of the aborted kids. Not a pretty sight.


on a side note jack your interested in regulating people's sex lives. If you would just accpet that it's ok to talk of contraceptives to the youth today that alone would reduce the number of pregnancies.. but again your more interested in the politics of abortion than actually trying to lower the abortions going forward.

WTF are you talking about now?!?!:lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

LOL @ judging. It's murder. You should go take a peak at some of the pics of the aborted kids. Not a pretty sight.



WTF are you talking about now?!?!:lmao

I sometime have to remind myself that you aren't the quickest when it comes to this board.

[jack sommerset]

I sometime have to remind myself that you aren't the quickest when it comes to this board.

You don't know either. Gotcha!

[George Gervin's Afro]

You don't know either. Gotcha!

Fine jack

You are against abortion but you won't support birth control / sex education for the youth today which will reduce abortions.

Like a book jack...

[jack sommerset]

Fine jack

You are against abortion but you won't support birth control / sex education for the youth today which will reduce abortions.

Like a book jack...

Look at some of my post once in awhile you fucking idiot. I am 100 percent for birth control. I said many times when a girl hits 13-14-15 put her ass on birth control no matter what. Make it a law. I have to hear the sky is falling reasons why we can do that.

Teach our kids about abortions, safe sex, diseases when they hit high school. You really, really have no fucking clue what you are talking about thus is why I don't resopnd to you stalking me most of the time.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Look at some of my post once in awhile you fucking idiot. I am 100 percent for birth control. I said many times when a girl hits 13-14-15 put her ass on birth control no matter what. Make it a law. I have to hear the sky is falling reasons why we can do that.

Teach our kids about abortions, safe sex, diseases when they hit high school. You really, really have no fucking clue what you are talking about thus is why I don't resopnd to you stalking me most of the time.

you would make it a law to put kids on birth control? who would pay for it?

Sorry for stalking you but your ignorance is to juicy to pass up..

[jack sommerset]

you would make it a law to put kids on birth control? who would pay for it?

Sorry for stalking you but your ignorance is to juicy to pass up..

You are boring me. You want to argue. You say I am against this and that then you find out I am not but you still want to argue. Good day!

[George Gervin's Afro]

You are boring me. You want to argue. You say I am against this and that then you find out I am not but you still want to argue. Good day!

I know jack you hate liars.... whoops you are ok with republican liars..

[jack sommerset]

I know jack you hate liars.... whoops you are ok with republican liars..

Honestly, I love the fact you keep talking. You or this troll you created represents the Obama dems. People like you helped kill this healthcare bill. I trully thank you! You support abortions and expect us to pay for them. You are the minority and America has spoken.

[TheManFromAcme]

Late term abortions:

"The baby is delivered feet first until the head remains within the mother. The aborting physician inserts scicssors into the back of the infant's skull and opens the blades to produce a hole. The Child's brains are then vacuumed out, the skull collapses, and the rest of the newly made corpse is removed".

Food for thought for you pro-choice folk out there.

[Blake]

Look at some of my post once in awhile you fucking idiot. I am 100 percent for birth control. I said many times when a girl hits 13-14-15 put her ass on birth control no matter what. Make it a law. I have to hear the sky is falling reasons why we can do that.

At what age do you take the girl off of birth control?

What happens if a 13-14-15 year old girl refuses birth control? How much jail time will she get?


You really, really have no fucking clue what you are talking about

[George Gervin's Afro]

Honestly, I love the fact you keep talking. You or this troll you created represents the Obama dems. People like you helped kill this healthcare bill. I trully thank you! You support abortions and expect us to pay for them. You are the minority and America has spoken.

your right. America spoke in 2008 when she gave the dems the super majorities in both houses including the Whitehouse..

[George Gervin's Afro]

Late term abortions:

"The baby is delivered feet first until the head remains within the mother. The aborting physician inserts scicssors into the back of the infant's skull and opens the blades to produce a hole. The Child's brains are then vacuumed out, the skull collapses, and the rest of the newly made corpse is removed".

Food for thought for you pro-choice folk out there.

I am not particularly in support for late term abortions..for the record. I believe at some point there has to be a cut off... 5,4,3,2,1..cue the "what if it's done the day before the cut off date?'...."who sets the cut off date..?"

[Blake]

Late term abortions:

"The baby is delivered feet first until the head remains within the mother. The aborting physician inserts scicssors into the back of the infant's skull and opens the blades to produce a hole. The Child's brains are then vacuumed out, the skull collapses, and the rest of the newly made corpse is removed".

Food for thought for you pro-choice folk out there.

are you against late term abortion if the mother's life is in danger?

[coyotes_geek]

Look at some of my post once in awhile you fucking idiot. I am 100 percent for birth control. I said many times when a girl hits 13-14-15 put her ass on birth control no matter what. Make it a law. I have to hear the sky is falling reasons why we can do that.

So the same guy who's in the healthcare thread saying that the government shouldn't tax fast food combo meals thinks it's okay for the government to force people to go on birth control. :lol

[jack sommerset]

your right. America spoke in 2008 when she gave the dems the super majorities in both houses including the Whitehouse..

Excellent. We agree. Most made a mistake and his approval rating has dropped to support this plus he lost his powers last weeks.

Son, abortion is murder.

[jack sommerset]

So the same guy who's in the healthcare thread saying that the government shouldn't tax fast food combo meals thinks it's okay for the government to force people to go on birth control. :lol

It sure beats killing babies. They don't have a choice, we do.

[spursncowboys]

I know jack you hate liars.... whoops you are ok with republican liars..

Is abortion murder?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Is abortion murder?

I am not a proponent of abortion. I think at a certain point you could consider it murder I suppose. If a woman is 8 1/2 months pregnant and does something to kill the child that would be murder. if someone gets pregnant and aborts within the first 8 weeks to (whatever the viability of the fetus) is then it's not murder to me.

[jack sommerset]

I am not a proponent of abortion. I think at a certain point you could consider it murder I suppose. If a woman is 8 1/2 months pregnant and does something to kill the child that would be murder. if someone gets pregnant and aborts within the first 8 weeks to (whatever the viability of the fetus) is then it's not murder to me.

Soon as the doctor sticks something up the pussy to scrap out the kid, it's murder.

[coyotes_geek]

It sure beats killing babies. They don't have a choice, we do.

But your right to not to have to pay an extra nickel for your twinkie is more important than all the lives that could be improved by us becoming a healthier nation...............

[George Gervin's Afro]

But your right to not to have to pay an extra nickel for your twinkie is more important than all the lives that could be improved by us becoming a healthier nation...............

jack wants to force people to have kids when they can't support them emotionally or financially.... but don't make jack pany extra taxes to pay for these dead beat babies.. they should just get a job..

[TheManFromAcme]

are you against late term abortion if the mother's life is in danger?

The holy -grail of all questions regarding this I must add and one that has had me internally held at bay. I want to take a Christian approach to it but am not sure how it will be digested.

It is along the lines of the sanctity of all that is God made, hence life. If we are to regain our equilibrium as a society, if we are to rescue our children from downward spiral of violence, then we must recover our founding ideals. We must resensitize ourselves to the dignity, integrity and sanctity of all that is life by upholding it at every opportunity and in every situation. All people matter. Does this answer the question? Probably not. What I can answer as a Christian is that life is a gift as is motherhood. Would I choose my wife or my unborn child? I would leave it in the Lord's hands. My wife and un-born child are "one". If the Lord wants them both, then that is his calling. I can't take it into my own hands as my faith teaches me for it would be the Lord's will. So the answer is ultimately Yes. I am against it. Being that I have not been put in that situation I can answer it now but would my faith be strong enough should this particular event take place? God give me the strength to let both of them go.

I vote the Bible. That is how I am able to have dialogue regarding this topic.
:toast

[spursncowboys]

I am not a proponent of abortion. I think at a certain point you could consider it murder I suppose. If a woman is 8 1/2 months pregnant and does something to kill the child that would be murder. if someone gets pregnant and aborts within the first 8 weeks to (whatever the viability of the fetus) is then it's not murder to me.

His/her heart is beating. Fingers and toes are forming. Eyelids are almost covering. In his brain, nueral cells are branching out to connect to one another. Constantly moving.
http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-8-weeks How is he/she not alive?

[George Gervin's Afro]

The holy -grail of all questions regarding this I must add and one that has had me internally held at bay. I want to take a Christian approach to it but am not sure how it will be digested.

It is along the lines of the sanctity of all that is God made, hence life. If we are to regain our equilibrium as a society, if we are to rescue our children from downward spiral of violence, then we must recover our founding ideals. We must resensitize ourselves to the dignity, integrity and sanctity of all that is life by upholding it at every opportunity and in every situation. All people matter. Does this answer the question? Probably not. What I can answer as a Christian is that life is a gift as is motherhood. Would I choose my wife or my unborn child? I would leave it in the Lord's hands. My wife and un-born child are "one". If the Lord wants them both, then that is his calling. I can't take it into my own hands as my faith teaches me for it would be the Lord's will. So the answer is ultimately Yes. I am against it. Being that I have not been put in that situation I can answer it now but would my faith be strong enough should this particular event take place? God give me the strength to let both of them go.

I vote the Bible. That is how I am able to have dialogue regarding this topic.
:toast



I respect your point of view (no sarcasm intended) however not everyone has the bleifs like you do. I am not going to say you are wrong but I think if Christians decide that their way is best then you run into problems.

[Marcus Bryant]

A disproportionate number of abortions are performed on non-white mothers. A majority, IIRC. And a majority of African-American pregnancies are terminated via abortion. So basically upper middle class whites want to continue to ensure that a good amount of non-white babies are culled every year. In the name of feminism or what not.

[George Gervin's Afro]

His/her heart is beating. Fingers and toes are forming. Eyelids are almost covering. In his brain, nueral cells are branching out to connect to one another. Constantly moving.
http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-8-weeks How is him/her not alive?

when does that occur in the pregancy?

[George Gervin's Afro]

A disproportionate number of abortions are performed on non-white mothers. A majority, IIRC. And a majority of African-American pregnancies are terminated via abortion. So basically upper middle class whites want to continue to ensure that a good amount of non-white babies are culled every year. In the name of feminism or what not.

I kind of agree with this. We have people telling everyone else what to do with their lives and to me that's not right.

[sjacquemotte]

when does that occur in the pregancy?
8 weeks

[TheManFromAcme]

I respect your point of view (no sarcasm intended) however not everyone has the bleifs like you do. I am not going to say you are wrong but I think if Christians decide that their way is best then you run into problems.

None taken and I respect your take. I am a Christian and have no religion if you want to call it that. Believing in the Bible is all free-will. Taking what the Bible teaches regarding life is all free-will.

This is how I roll. :toast

Now, if you want to discuss Planned Parenthood I am all ears (and eyes)...

[George Gervin's Afro]

8 weeks

I would be ok with banning abortions after 8 weeks.

[spursncowboys]

when does that occur in the pregancy?
All that happens on the eighth week. The hands and legs are already forming from wk6.

[spursncowboys]

I would be ok with banning abortions after 8 weeks.
Would you say a baby is alive when their heart is pumping? Would banning abortion after the beginning of the heart beating be ok with you?

[jack sommerset]

jack wants to force people to have kids when they can't support them emotionally or financially.... but don't make jack pany extra taxes to pay for these dead beat babies.. they should just get a job..

Why do you keep saying things that are not true. Is this entertaining to you?(there is another problem with society if the answer is yes) Abortion is murder. People can spin it however they like but they are killing babies.

It's legal to kill babies in America. Have at it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Would you say a baby is alive when their heart is pumping? Would banning abortion after the beginning of the heart beating be ok with you?

The timing will always be debated so I am ok with setting the 8 week standard.

[TheManFromAcme]

Tragic.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Why do you keep saying things that are not true. Is this entertaining to you?(there is another problem with society if the answer is yes) Abortion is murder. People can spin it however they like but they are killing babies.

It's legal to kill babies in America. Have at it.

you don't care what happens to babies after they are born. just admit it jack.

[baseline bum]

So wait you are for welfare and medicare, which is what most of our taxes go to, but when it is used to stop the murder of innocent children-that is when you become a fiscal conservative? Also there is no historical data that taxes were lowered when abortion was legalized, so why would taxes go up?

You're for the biggest form of welfare the government has ever provided, so get off your high horse here. I know, I know, the constitution guaranteed massive subsidies to Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and Halliburton that should dwarf all other federal spending.

[baseline bum]

you don't care what happens to babies after they are born. just admit it jack.

AvF1Q3UidWM

[jack sommerset]

Now I am a conservative. Gotcha.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why do you keep saying things that are not true. Is this entertaining to you?(there is another problem with society if the answer is yes) Abortion is murder. People can spin it however they like but they are killing babies.

It's legal to kill babies in America. Have at it.

If we're worried about state-sanctioned murder, how about picking out a given country, declaring it to be an enemy of the Republic, and then invading it with the greatest military force in the history of the world?

Just saying.

And yes, abortion is murder. Yet since the child happens to be inside of someone else, the legality is at issue. Do we deem a mother a murderer for a miscarriage? Do we not prosecute in those circumstances? On whom does the burden of proof fall?

[spursncowboys]

You're for the biggest form of welfare the government has ever provided, so get off your high horse here. I know, I know, the constitution guaranteed massive subsidies to Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and Halliburton that should dwarf all other federal spending.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Does it have something to do with abortion?

[baseline bum]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Does it have something to do with abortion?

You're the one who brought welfare into the discussion, so don't act stupid now.

[spursncowboys]

If we're worried about state-sanctioned murder, how about picking out a given country, declaring it to be an enemy of the Republic, and then invading it with the greatest military force in the history of the world?

Just saying.

And yes, abortion is murder. Yet since the child happens to be inside of someone else, the legality is at issue. Do we deem a mother a murderer for a miscarriage? Do we not prosecute in those circumstances? On whom does the burden of proof fall? First we should give them 12 un sanctions, and forbid them from creating a mini-Holocaust. When they don't do those we give them another final chance to let us see their world threatening WMDs.

[spursncowboys]

You're the one who brought welfare into the discussion, so don't act stupid now.
I really don't know what you are saying what I am for. I never once said I agreed with bail outs, treating a company like TBTF, or subsidies for that matter.

[TheManFromAcme]

I am sure Mr. Carlin is enjoying his stay with :cooldevil

[baseline bum]

I am sure Mr. Carlin is enjoying his stay with :cooldevil

How can an inanimate object in the ground enjoy anything?

[DarkReign]

I am sure Mr. Carlin is enjoying his stay with :cooldevil

If you knew one thing about Carlin and most people you'll find yourself at odds here, he deosnt give a flying fuck about what your book says on his behalf.

Because its a lie. A giant, gaping lie.

[jack sommerset]

I like Carlin. Helped me with religion but his take on abortions is over the top if indeed he is trying to send a message and not trying to make us laugh.

[Marcus Bryant]

How are we certain that he didn't?

That is, how do we really know anything about that which another truly believes?

Further, we take a faith that is about you and yours alone, and then set out on a course to enlist everyone. Or, worry about yourself living the faith instead of focusing on how everyone else is not.

[TheManFromAcme]

If you knew one thing about Carlin and most people you'll find yourself at odds here, he deosnt give a flying fuck about what your book says on his behalf.

Because its a lie. A giant, gaping lie.

Uh, Okay.....:rolleyes

Are you calling the Holy Bible a lie or as you put it....A giant, gaping lie?

Eh, don't matter. You'll be prayed for. Deathbeds have a neat way of exploiting a weakness.

Happy life man! :toast

[ploto]

Many of these people are actually opposed to the health care bill because of money. They are just using the right-to-life claim as a socially acceptable reason to oppose it instead of admitting that they simply don't want their money spent on health care for other people-- which ironically would improve their quality of life.

[ploto]

I am sure Mr. Carlin is enjoying his stay with :cooldevil

The kind of judging in which one is not supposed to engage is claiming to know the salvation or lack thereof of another person's soul.