Who's getting traded in the west (hoopsworld) [Archive]

SinBAD

01-23-2010, 07:47 PM

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15071

This article basically puts mason, bonner and fin on the block.I do believe since mason has seen limited minutes he is on his way out.he has value around the league.I hope the spurs use this trade wisely to try to get a a bigman in the paint.Also i dont think we need bonner anyore.we were fine without him.Fin hasnt played and the team doesnt seem to be missing anything.Maybe all 3 will get traded for a a legit big man like camby.Haywood so a good rebounder and blocker but his D in the paint is average.camby or beidrens would be alot better.the spurs also have splitters rights and Mahimi to include.

Leetonidas

01-23-2010, 07:50 PM

Haywood I think is a very available option and it would definitely improve the Spurs if they only had to give up a combination of Bonner/Finley/Mason. He is a great defensive presence and a good rebounder, something we're lacking.

DesignatedT

01-23-2010, 07:50 PM

i agree with trying to trade mase for a big. hopefully we can maybe package something like a mase,ian, for haywood or mase,fin,ian for someone.

IMO, I feel that bonner is still a player that can do good here having spot minutes off the bench. The way he stretches the floor really makes it easier on a lot of our guys (which is the reason his +/- is so high at times) that being said i have no desire seeing him in the starting lineup again.

SinBAD

01-23-2010, 07:54 PM

Raja bel is available and the spurs wanted to trade for hima while back.remember we got bruce when he was over 30 and only then he started beasting.I think bell would be an upgrade over bogans.if the team can trade fin and bogans, mahimi for bell i would do it.I dont wanna see mason go though.

ace3g

01-23-2010, 08:00 PM

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64229/20100123/source_wizards_unlikely_to_trade_haywood/

baseline bum

01-23-2010, 08:00 PM

DesignatedT

01-23-2010, 08:00 PM

024

01-23-2010, 08:01 PM

is bell still injured? haywood would add size but there are problems on the perimeter as well. bogans or hill starting probably won't cut it.

HarlemHeat37

01-23-2010, 08:04 PM

The OP is a horrible defensive evaluator..

His thread about the Spurs D in the other thread is full of inaccurate evaluations, and he follows it very well in this thread..

Haywood is one of the best 1 on 1 post defenders in the NBA, he has been for a few years, his size allows him to bang in the post with legit Cs while still having the length to go along with it..so you said he isn't good, and then you said CAMBY AND BIEDRINS are good?! LOL..2 guys that are criticized for their post D due to their small size and weak positioning in the defensive post, and they're both liabilities at defending the p&r as well..

SinBAD

01-23-2010, 08:05 PM

bell started working out and should be back march 1st.dont know if the spurs will go for him if he wont start till then.maybe we can get him without losing much.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtL.nqzcM7pbE3JyultP4SOIPKB4?slug=teamre ports-2010-nba-gsw&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report

HarlemHeat37

01-23-2010, 08:06 PM

Raja Bell isn't an answer on the perimeter..he looked poor defensively to end last year and he didn't look good earlier this year..

I agree that we need help to defend the perimeter, but Raja Bell isn't the answer..

SinBAD

01-23-2010, 08:13 PM

loool.Haywod is an average defender no more.where do you get he is one of the best 1 on 1 defenders? he is better than any other big we have but he average.Camby IMO is better and so is biedrens when healthy.The only reason people like you think he is not as good is because the warriors play small ball and he has to help alot like tim.
What else have I said that is wrong?that parker sucks on D?every1 is entitled to his opinion.

The OP is a horrible defensive evaluator..

His thread about the Spurs D in the other thread is full of inaccurate evaluations, and he follows it very well in this thread..

Haywood is one of the best 1 on 1 post defenders in the NBA, he has been for a few years, his size allows him to bang in the post with legit Cs while still having the length to go along with it..so you said he isn't good, and then you said CAMBY AND BIEDRINS are good?! LOL..2 guys that are criticized for their post D due to their small size and weak positioning in the defensive post, and they're both liabilities at defending the p&r as well..

DesignatedT

01-23-2010, 08:15 PM

if bell was healthy he wouldnt be a bad option. hes def an upgrade over what we have now.

haywood would def be a man that could help anchor the paint, especially when tim gets his breaks. i just dont know why the wizards would trade an expiring contract for other expirings.

Camby is a better off the ball defender, weakside defender no doubt. haywood is stronger and bigger which would help against guys like gasol bynum ect.

mazerrackham

01-23-2010, 08:36 PM

Camby's been such an overrated defender for years. People love the blocked shot statistic....

poop

01-23-2010, 08:44 PM

our perimeter is fine...what we need is either a defensive big (we have 3 already but stubborn Pop only plays one) or a true playmaking pg

Chieflion

01-23-2010, 08:45 PM

Some people don't know how to evaluate shit.

SinBAD

01-23-2010, 08:47 PM

Our perimeter D is very weak.we can stop anyone then tim has to help which leave the paint wide open. i think ratliff can still play but pop doesnt want him in the game.Mahimi can block shots but I guess he hasnt shown promise in practice.

our perimeter is fine...what we need is either a defensive big (we have 3 already but stubborn Pop only plays one) or a true playmaking pg

jermaine

01-23-2010, 08:58 PM

Some people don't know how to evaluate shit.

#1 I see that Mason didn't really get anytime last game. Him or Ian so I think they just mite be on the trading block. But I don't like to get my hopes up. I check on here hoping I see that a trade has been made but all I ever read is trade speculation. I wish you'll would chill with the wishful thinking an just post what you know for sure.

Chieflion

01-23-2010, 09:02 PM

#1 I see that Mason didn't really get anytime last game. Him or Ian so I think they just mite be on the trading block. But I don't like to get my hopes up. I check on here hoping I see that a trade has been made but all I ever read is trade speculation. I wish you'll would chill with the wishful thinking an just post what you know for sure.
The only reason why I would even speculate any trades is when there are rumors popping out. It is not like I am just throwing names out there. Guys like Iggy, Dalembert, Haywood are surrounded by trade rumors, that is for sure.

poop

01-23-2010, 09:07 PM

Our perimeter D is very weak.we can stop anyone then tim has to help which leave the paint wide open. i think ratliff can still play but pop doesnt want him in the game.Mahimi can block shots but I guess he hasnt shown promise in practice.

the main problem though is there being NO ONE but tim to defend the rim... we've been getting slaughtered in the paint which is unacceptable. you can live with a loss if guys are just hitting all their outside shots; but letting guys run layup drills on you all night long will translate to zero wins.

ElNono

01-23-2010, 09:14 PM

Our perimeter D is very weak.we can stop anyone then tim has to help which leave the paint wide open. i think ratliff can still play but pop doesnt want him in the game.Mahimi can block shots but I guess he hasnt shown promise in practice.

Our perimeter D can improve, but it's not as abysmal as you think it is, IMO. The thing is, you won't see perimeter D like 3 or more years ago simply because the rules have been made so it's pretty difficult to prevent penetration from the perimeter. That's why size is so coveted. At this point, you have to meet people at the rim. Tim has always been pretty exceptional at that, but he's not what he used to be and he's been needing help since Horry declined, pretty much. You look at top defensive teams out there and you're lookig at a good tandem of bigs, like Gasol/Bynum or Garnett/Perkins...

Obviously, these bigs need to be able to play offense too, because you won't be taking advantage of the perimeter rules with them...

poop

01-23-2010, 09:33 PM

Our perimeter D can improve, but it's not as abysmal as you think it is, IMO. The thing is, you won't see perimeter D like 3 or more years ago simply because the rules have been made so it's pretty difficult to prevent penetration from the perimeter. That's why size is so coveted. At this point, you have to meet people at the rim. Tim has always been pretty exceptional at that, but he's not what he used to be and he's been needing help since Horry declined, pretty much. You look at top defensive teams out there and you're lookig at a good tandem of bigs, like Gasol/Bynum or Garnett/Perkins...

Obviously, these bigs need to be able to play offense too, because you won't be taking advantage of the perimeter rules with them...

exactly.

mosdef17

01-23-2010, 11:00 PM

I wish Shane Battier was available...

Sean Cagney

01-23-2010, 11:05 PM

our perimeter is fine...what we need is either a defensive big (we have 3 already but stubborn Pop only plays one) or a true playmaking pg

Our perimeter is fine? Who is playing D out there sides Hill? The rest just get blown by out there and get to the rack :lol:bang

PuttPutt

01-23-2010, 11:38 PM

Big man that will play please

Pauleta14

01-24-2010, 06:43 AM

mystargtr34

01-24-2010, 06:56 AM

I yhink A.Biedrins would be a good fit!

He has a poor offensive game, but who cares with Timmy next to him...
He D is realy good and it would remind me the Nesterovic Timmy combo that was really efficient!

What's your opinion?

I think he's a bit like Camby. Block's shots but he's undersized for a C and his man-to-man D isnt that special.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 07:44 AM

I think he's a bit like Camby. Block's shots but he's undersized for a C and his man-to-man D isnt that special.

What do guys want, Wilt Chamberlain? :lol

You can't have everything. A guy with great shot blocking ability would fit in perfectly next to Tim in the starting lineup. Furthur, he's playing on a Don Nelson team that doesn't preach any kind of defense intensity. His man to man defense would pick up if he was wearing silver and black.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 10:12 AM

Chieflion

01-24-2010, 10:16 AM

You guys do remember that just 2 years ago when Andris Biedrins was healthy he was playing at a near all-star caliber level averaging 16.8pts, a league high 14.9 boards, and 1.5 blocks a contest.

Oh wait, that might actually hurt your arguments. Never mind.
When did that even happen anyway? Are you spewing nonsense?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/biedran01.html

And he is shooting an atrocious 11.1% from the free throw line this season.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 10:17 AM

Chieflion

01-24-2010, 10:18 AM

2008. I know, you probably weren't born yet.
Idiot, can someone please click the damn link to clarify his stats?

10.5 points and 9.8 rebounds to be exact. What a fucking idiot. Is that you, Tacker? Spewing stats with no basis whatsoever. Looking at PER 36 stats doesn't justify your shitty claims either.

SenorSpur

01-24-2010, 10:30 AM

TJastal

01-24-2010, 10:31 AM

Idiot, can someone please click the damn link to clarify his stats?

10.5 points and 9.8 rebounds to be exact. What a fucking idiot. Is that you, Tacker? Spewing stats with no basis whatsoever. Looking at PER 36 stats doesn't justify your shitty claims either.

I guess I need to clarify here. Those were his numbers when he was 100% healthy sometime before the all-star break.

SenorSpur

01-24-2010, 10:34 AM

I wish Shane Battier was available...

According to Chad Ford's Insider, he just might be - for the right price:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100121

Shane Battier, F, Rockets
Battier is the heart and soul of Morey's Rockets. Remember, Houston traded lottery pick Rudy Gay for him in 2005, shortly after Morey's arrival, and has never looked back. While Gay has been the more electric prospect, Battier has done what Battier does: all the little things that translate into chemistry and wins. I don't think any team in the league values him the way Morey does.

That said, there have been rumblings that Battier is available for the right price. The Rockets are after a big man, and, well, isn't just about anyone available for the right price? I don't see a team making an offer that knocks Morey's socks off, but you never know

murpjf88

01-24-2010, 10:39 AM

You guys do remember that just 2 years ago when Andris Biedrins was healthy he was playing at a near all-star caliber level averaging 16.8pts, a league high 14.9 boards, and 1.5 blocks a contest.

Oh wait, that might actually hurt your arguments. Never mind.

Well, you have a good point, I would certainly entertain thoughts of Biedrins if the Spurs would offer Finley and half eaten bag of Doritos. But, then again, I'd hate to give up that half eaten bag of Doritos.

But, then again, we could use another big to decorate the bench.

wildbill2u

01-24-2010, 12:44 PM

I wish Shane Battier was available...

I wish Jesus would come back as a Spurs Center/PF but reality intrudes and I wake up.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 12:57 PM

Well, you have a good point, I would certainly entertain thoughts of Biedrins if the Spurs would offer Finley and half eaten bag of Doritos. But, then again, I'd hate to give up that half eaten bag of Doritos.

But, then again, we could use another big to decorate the bench.

How about Biedrins PLUS Stephen Jackson? Not that it matters now, but I wonder how good the spurs defense would be if they'd have shipped Parker and Finley (or Bonner) out for both these players. And don't tell me Don Nelson wouldn't have been creaming his pants to get another 20ppg shoot-first guard.

With a starting lineup of Biedrins/Duncan/Jefferson/Jackson/Hill. That would be a suffocating unit and then you'd have an offensive barrage coming off the bench led by Manu.

SpurCharger

01-24-2010, 01:02 PM

No On biedrins..... We Need A big man with Some length. Im tired of our center Being between 6'7 and 6'9.... I would love Someone 6'11 or taller, get some length and make guys shoot over the top of them.

murpjf88

01-24-2010, 01:03 PM

How about Biedrins PLUS Stephen Jackson? Not that it matters now, but I wonder how good the spurs defense would be if they'd have shipped Parker and Finley (or Bonner) out for both these players. And don't tell me Don Nelson wouldn't have been creaming his pants to get another 20ppg shoot-first guard.

With a starting lineup of Biedrins/Duncan/Jefferson/Jackson/Hill. That would be a suffocating unit and then you'd have an offensive barrage coming off the bench led by Manu.

Yeah, I'll bite. But the spurs would still need a back up point guard. If they could steal away Devin Harris from new jersey. I always liked Jackson, but Pop is stubborn in his ways and didn't want to bring him back.

Personally, I want Kaman.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 01:04 PM

Obstructed_View

01-24-2010, 01:05 PM

Here's a name many of you obviously don't remember: Rasho Nesterovic.

He was not a traditional shot blocker, but he got his share of blocks. How? By standing under the basket with both his hands straight up in the air when the defenders funneled their guy to him. It was a fairly decent system. How hard would it be to teach Theo Ratliff or Ian Mahinmi to do that? I doubt it would be terribly hard to do.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 01:07 PM

Yeah, I'll bite. But the spurs would still need a back up point guard. If they could steal away Devin Harris from new jersey. I always liked Jackson, but Pop is stubborn in his ways and didn't want to bring him back.

Personally, I want Kaman.

Nelson would have thrown in Acie Law or CJ Watson for sure. He tossed in Acie Law with Jackson in the Bell/Radmanovich trade, why wouldn't he have done the same in a Parker trade?

bigdog

01-24-2010, 01:08 PM

I remember a game I went to where the Spurs played the Twolves and Rasho had like 8 blocks. Rasho was always a good shotblocker.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 01:09 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andris_Biedri%C5%86%C5%A1

His breakthrough game came in November 2006, when the Warriors beat the title favorites San Antonio Spurs 119-111. In this game, Biedriņš asserted himself against Spurs superstar Tim Duncan, only being narrowly outscored 18-22 and outrebounded 15-16,[9] but did block six shots, including three straight shot attempts by Duncan in the third quarter.

Ironic, eh?

Obstructed_View

01-24-2010, 01:14 PM

I remember a game I went to where the Spurs played the Twolves and Rasho had like 8 blocks. Rasho was always a good shotblocker.

Yes, but not what I would call a traditional shot blocker, because he didn't rely on leaping ability. He was tall and got good position, and he used a combination of good timing with the defensive system. One would think that Mahinmi could be groomed to be like Rasho with slightly better rebounding skill in the same type of defensive system.

murpjf88

01-24-2010, 01:15 PM

Nelson would have thrown in Acie Law or CJ Watson for sure. He tossed in Acie Law with Jackson in the Bell/Radmanovich trade, why wouldn't he have done the same in a Parker trade?

Possibly, but I'm not completely sold on Hill as a point guard. He's much more productive as a shooting guard. He has proven that he can handle the point guard position short term as evidence last year, but long term, I don't know. Hill is only in his second full season, and for a team that still has championship aspirations, that's a lot of pressure.

Obstructed_View

01-24-2010, 01:19 PM

Possibly, but I'm not completely sold on Hill as a point guard. He's much more productive as a shooting guard. He has proven that he can handle the point guard position short term as evidence last year, but long term, I don't know. Hill is only in his second full season, and for a team that still has championship aspirations, that's a lot of pressure.

He hasn't proven that he can handle the point guard position at all, in my opinion. At this point he's the third best at running the offense on the team, and that's probably only because Ime Udoka isn't here anymore. It's a big question mark going forward, even if the team were playing well right now. The only thing that could be worse is if they call up Curtis Jerrels or something and think he's going to be able to run an offense.

TJastal

01-24-2010, 01:27 PM

Possibly, but I'm not completely sold on Hill as a point guard. He's much more productive as a shooting guard. He has proven that he can handle the point guard position short term as evidence last year, but long term, I don't know. Hill is only in his second full season, and for a team that still has championship aspirations, that's a lot of pressure.

While a playmaking point is a great asset, the lakers proved you can win a championship last year without a "true" point guard on the roster. I'll agree with you that Hill would have been thrown into a pressure cooker but the kid has shown he is tough as nails and afraid of nothing and I think he would have elevated his game to a new level. I'm not sure how Jackson and Jefferson would have meshed offensively. Like many things it looks good on paper (to me) but might have been bad in reality. Defensively however I'm 99.9% sure this lineup would have owned.

cherylsteele

01-24-2010, 03:10 PM

When did that even happen anyway? Are you spewing nonsense?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/biedran01.html

And he is shooting an atrocious 11.1% from the free throw line this season.

Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2004-05 18 GSW NBA 30 1 12.8 1.5 2.6 .577 0.0 0.0 .000 0.6 1.3 .475 1.6 2.4 3.9 0.4 0.4 0.8 0.4 2.9 3.6
2005-06 19 GSW NBA 68 2 14.7 1.7 2.7 .638 0.0 0.0 0.3 1.1 .306 1.8 2.3 4.2 0.4 0.3 0.7 0.5 2.8 3.8
2006-07 20 GSW NBA 82 63 29.0 4.2 7.1 .599 0.0 0.0 1.1 2.0 .521 3.1 6.2 9.3 1.1 0.8 1.7 1.5 3.7 9.5
2007-08 21 GSW NBA 76 59 27.3 4.5 7.1 .626 0.0 0.0 1.5 2.5 .620 3.4 6.4 9.8 1.0 0.7 1.2 1.1 3.4 10.5
2008-09 22 GSW NBA 62 58 30.0 5.0 8.6 .578 0.0 0.0 .000 1.9 3.5 .551 3.6 7.6 11.2 2.0 1.0 1.5 1.8 3.8 11.9
2009-10 23 GSW NBA 17 13 24.4 2.5 4.2 .597 0.0 0.0 0.1 1.1 .111 1.9 6.1 7.9 1.7 0.6 1.6 0.9 4.1 5.2
Career NBA 335 196 24.2 3.6 5.9 .603 0.0 0.0 .000 1.1 2.1 .521 2.8 5.4 8.2 1.0 0.7 1.3 1.1 3.4 8.3

TJastal

01-24-2010, 03:22 PM

Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2004-05 18 GSW NBA 30 1 12.8 1.5 2.6 .577 0.0 0.0 .000 0.6 1.3 .475 1.6 2.4 3.9 0.4 0.4 0.8 0.4 2.9 3.6
2005-06 19 GSW NBA 68 2 14.7 1.7 2.7 .638 0.0 0.0 0.3 1.1 .306 1.8 2.3 4.2 0.4 0.3 0.7 0.5 2.8 3.8
2006-07 20 GSW NBA 82 63 29.0 4.2 7.1 .599 0.0 0.0 1.1 2.0 .521 3.1 6.2 9.3 1.1 0.8 1.7 1.5 3.7 9.5
2007-08 21 GSW NBA 76 59 27.3 4.5 7.1 .626 0.0 0.0 1.5 2.5 .620 3.4 6.4 9.8 1.0 0.7 1.2 1.1 3.4 10.5
2008-09 22 GSW NBA 62 58 30.0 5.0 8.6 .578 0.0 0.0 .000 1.9 3.5 .551 3.6 7.6 11.2 2.0 1.0 1.5 1.8 3.8 11.9
2009-10 23 GSW NBA 17 13 24.4 2.5 4.2 .597 0.0 0.0 0.1 1.1 .111 1.9 6.1 7.9 1.7 0.6 1.6 0.9 4.1 5.2
Career NBA 335 196 24.2 3.6 5.9 .603 0.0 0.0 .000 1.1 2.1 .521 2.8 5.4 8.2 1.0 0.7 1.3 1.1 3.4 8.3

Cheryl

I already stated that the numbers I posted were the first month or so of the season before injuries slowed him down. Of course, you would know this if you had read the entire thread before showing off your amazing copy and paste skills.

Zocalo

01-24-2010, 03:51 PM

Yes... because one month of play is more indicative and reflective the several seasons worth. :lmao

TJastal

01-24-2010, 03:56 PM

Yes... because one month of play is more indicative and reflective the several seasons worth. :lmao

It shows what he's capable of when completely healthy, moron.

Zocalo

01-24-2010, 03:58 PM

It shows what he's capable of when completely healthy, moron.

Does it make you feel good inside by insulting people? :lmao

cherylsteele

01-24-2010, 11:37 PM

You guys do remember that just 2 years ago when Andris Biedrins was healthy he was playing at a near all-star caliber level averaging 16.8pts, a league high 14.9 boards, and 1.5 blocks a contest.

Oh wait, that might actually hurt your arguments. Never mind.
I copied and pasted so you could actually read his stats, which you obviously did not.

His 2008 actual game stats:
10.5 pts; 9.8 rebs; 1 assist; 1.2 blk; 62.6% fg's; 62% ft's

Per 36 min 2008 stats:
13.8 pts; 12.9 rebs; 1.3 assist; 1.6 blk; 57.8% fg's; 55% ft's

He never once came clos to those averages that year or any other for that matter, so please tell us where you pulled those stats from?

outmap

01-25-2010, 04:42 AM

While a playmaking point is a great asset, the lakers proved you can win a championship last year without a "true" point guard on the roster. I'll agree with you that Hill would have been thrown into a pressure cooker but the kid has shown he is tough as nails and afraid of nothing and I think he would have elevated his game to a new level. I'm not sure how Jackson and Jefferson would have meshed offensively. Like many things it looks good on paper (to me) but might have been bad in reality. Defensively however I'm 99.9% sure this lineup would have owned.

+1

Jordan's Bulls PG was a 6'7" SF.