Silver Lining as the Panic Siren Sounds

[timvp]

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

[mexicanjunior]

Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

He's been doing that since last year...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

[Buddy Holly]

I just want him to try and get Ian integrated as best he can this late in the season.

[timvp]

He's been doing that since last year...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....Pop hasn't played midget ball until this season.


I just want him to try and get Ian integrated as best he can this late in the season.It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

[timtonymanu]

C- Blair PF - Duncan SF - RJ SG - Hill PG - Parker

C - McDyess SG- Manu PG - Mason

Spot minutes: Bonner, Finley, Bogans, Ratliff

The rotation was actually good tonight until the final minutes when we needed the right one but all we need is the elimination of small ball and for RJ to show up. Dice did well tonight. Hopefully this is the turning point for him.

[Buddy Holly]

Pop hasn't played midget ball until this season.

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

I'm not asking for a difference. I just want the dude to play so we don't have to have Jefferson or Mason at the four. :bang

[mexicanjunior]

Pop hasn't played midget ball until this season.

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

I could have sworn Pop was playing alot of Finley at the 4 last year...

[easy7]

I just saw pop's interview and he seems satisfied with what happened tonight. So.

[L.I.T]

I agree...I liked the fact that he shortened the rotation in an attempt to get the team jumpstarted.

What I didn't like was the continued shitacular defense the team played. The major problem though, like you said, is no shotblocking, limited defense, and Hill at this point is still overmatched if you're looking at him to be your primary defensive stopper.

Dice played well, but he's always going to be much more suited to being a post defender at this point in his career. Blair is never going to be a premier shotblocker. This leaves TD shouldering that weight, especially when the wing defenders can't lockdown worth shit.

[Obstructed_View]

He's been doing that since 2006...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

[SenorSpur]

He's been doing that since last year...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

Actually, he's been doing it since 2006, but what the hell.

[Budkin]

Even Richard Oliver was saying that the Spurs played with more passion tonight than he's seen in a while... but I see no silver lining in this diharrea filled joke of a season.

[Obstructed_View]

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

He could be if he actually played. I could get this team into the playoffs if I were coaching, and so could you, and we both know it.

[the crimson blur]

I like being optimistic. In fact, I am known for it.

But its pretty weak when the best spin you can put on the team right now is that they're so bad that maybe they will panic enough to do something crazy to turn everything around.

[timvp]

I could have sworn Pop was playing alot of Finley at the 4 last year...

Finley at power forward is small ball. At least Finley is big enough to play a role that almost looks like a power forward.

Midget ball is when there are four guards on the court. Before this year, I don't remember Pop ever going with four guards at the same time.

[mexicanjunior]

Actually, he's been doing it since 2006, but what the hell.

To this extent? I know he did it during the Mavs series to try and match up against their speed but I recall a big being alongside Timmy in 07 and 08 most of the time...

[boutons_deux]

To get 50W, Spurs need from tonight to to 25-14.

[jcrod]

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .


This rotation won't last, especially after Finely and Bonner become healthy. It sad that Pop will not give other people a chance, the Spurs have been succesfull with a legit big man next to Duncan.

You said it's too late for Ian, but why, it's obvious they're not going anywhere with this group. Manu's not the same, TP is not healthy, why not see what you have in Ian or Malik?

[mexicanjunior]

Finley at power forward is small ball. At least Finley is big enough to play a role that almost looks like a power forward.

Midget ball is when there are four guards on the court. Before this year, I don't remember Pop ever going with four guards at the same time.

Misunderstood then...I thought you calling it midget ball was just another way to say small ball...my bad.

[ElNono]

I'm starting to wonder wether Pop just doesn't care we give up 25+ point quarters all the time, or the players have just tuned him out...

[lurker23]

Another silver lining: McDyess playing better.

If he turns into the 9 and 9 player that he was in the 2nd half of last year, that goes a long way toward solidifying the Spurs front line, trade or no trade.

Now we need to figure out how to convince Pop to play him in crunch time...

[timaios]

The Spurs have the most difficult schedule for the rest of the season.
I think they are not going to make the playoffs this year... That's sick ! :depressed

All we can hope right now is an 8th seed and a fucking sweep by the Lakers in the 1st round. Disgusting ! :bang:bang:bang

[Johnny RIngo]

The Spurs have the most difficult schedule for the rest of the season.
I think they are not going to make the playoffs this year... That's sick ! :depressed

All we can hope right now is an 8th seed and a fucking sweep by the Lakers in the 1st round. Disgusting ! :bang:bang:bang

Lottery ain't so bad. We might even have a shot at a solid player.

[mexicanjunior]

All we can hope right now is an 8th seed and a fucking sweep by the Lakers in the 1st round. Disgusting ! :bang:bang:bang

That would be the absolute worst case scenario...we should take the lottery balls at that point...

[Obstructed_View]

I'm starting to wonder wether Pop just doesn't care we give up 25+ point quarters all the time, or the players have just tuned him out...

Would you blame players for tuning out a coach that puts 4 guards and a power forward into the game to try to get a stop? This is the same thing he did against Dallas in the '06 playoffs and made Dasagana Diop look like an all-star.

[timvp]

I'm not really worried about missing the playoffs. I highly doubt the Spurs miss the playoffs.

I'm more worried about the Spurs having to play so hard during the regular season to just make the playoffs that they are spent by May 1st.

[z0sa]

Would you blame players for tuning out a coach that puts 4 guards and a power forward into the game to try to get a stop? This is the same thing he did against Dallas in the '06 playoffs and made Dasagana Diop look like an all-star.

Pop deserves some negative criticism, if only because his words belie his actions. Why go on about stops and put small-ball, offense only lineups out there? He must think we're stupid, so maybe he does read ST afterall

[igruex]

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

If that's the silver lining, we are not even a playoff team. We are getting abused on defense.

I'm not really sure we should give Jefferson another 10-day contract extension... oh wait...

[the crimson blur]

To get 50W, Spurs need from tonight to to 25-14.

We have one of the hardest schedules in history left. Spurs will be lucky to finish above .500, let alone make the playoffs.

We knew that there would eventually be a rough year where it all falls apart and the rebuilding slowly begins. Watching a dynasty crumble is one of the roughest things in basketball. Old Celtic fans talk about how hard those early 90s were to watch; even worse than all those terrible rebuilding seasons after that. If you know you are bad, 30 wins becomes an accomplishment. When you expect a championship from a core, and then they can't, thats when it becomes heartbreaking.

I want the Spurs to do some magic but I don't see it. When one of the worst offensive teams in basketball shoots almost 60% and scores 98 points on you this late in the season, there really isn't enough time to make enough improvement for a deep run. But, hey, the Spurs always surprise me so I'll stick to hoping.

[vy65]

I'm not really worried about missing the playoffs. I highly doubt the Spurs miss the playoffs.

I'm more worried about the Spurs having to play so hard during the regular season to just make the playoffs that they are spent by May 1st.

Isn't that why going to an 8 man rotation is bad? Ostensibly, the bigger the rotation, the more rest for our horses -- in theory.

[HarlemHeat37]

I really don't think we have the roster to compete on a consistent basis..

-No defensive big with Duncan..
-No athleticism at all..(the athletes didn't get a chance)..
-No perimeter defender other than Hill..
-Lack of size everywhere..(Ian doesn't play)..

The size can be corrected with athleticism, but we don't have either..

That's just the roster, it doesn't account for the poor coaching..

[ShoogarBear]

Spurs now have more home losses than road wins.

Ten teams in the West have more road wins than home losses.

Missing the playoffs is a very real possibility.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm also concerned that Pop has just lost the ability to motivate this team..

[the crimson blur]

Spurs now have more home losses than road wins.

Ten teams in the West have more road wins than home losses.

Missing the playoffs is a very real possibility.

This 6 game homestand we are in is the easiest stretch we have left (and its not easy at all). We are 0-3 in it so far.

How anyone can be confident we make the playoffs with the way we are playing I don't know.

[timvp]

-No athleticism at all..(the athletes didn't get a chance)..

I don't see athleticism as a problem. This year's team has way more athleticism than any team in the TD Era.

[tlongII]

Not enough size. This rotation won't do squat.

[timvp]

Spurs now have more home losses than road wins.

Ten teams in the West have more road wins than home losses.

Missing the playoffs is a very real possibility.

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

[murpjf88]

You can't teach an old dog new tricks. They make the same mistakes over and over again. It makes me wonder what the hell they even accomplish at halftime or during practice. Game preparation absolutely sucks. They don't have one player I feel confident in taking the final shot. They hardly ever even take a high percentage shot. The spurs are going downhill fast.

[mexicanjunior]

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

65%...but honestly, sneaking into a 6-8th seed doesn't seem all that enticing...

[SenorSpur]

There is no siliver lining in any of this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the team is going to lose, I'd rather they do so with players that have more of their career in front of them than behind them. Players that have promise WILL get better.

There's no reward for mediocrity. If you're losing anyway, it simply makes more sense to lose with young, cheap talent than lose with expensive old vets.

[dastrey]

The more the Spurs lose, the more likely they trade for a big. Even if the current squad gels, they are not an elite team.

[igruex]

70% being optimistic

[timvp]

There is no siliver lining in any of this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the team is going to lose, I'd rather they do so with players that have more of their career in front of them than behind them. Players that have promise WILL get better.

There's no reward for mediocrity. If you're losing anyway, it simply makes more sense to lose with young, cheap talent than lose with expensive old vets.

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't see athleticism as a problem. This year's team has way more athleticism than any team in the TD Era.

I think athleticism is a real problem that's been getting worse ever since about 2005. You are right about this year's team, but the problem is the gap between our athleticism and the basic level of athleticism throughout the league is getting wider and wider. We have been declining in relative athleticism for a while now.

This + the length gap between us and other teams spells failure. You can't teach size and athleticism.

[Shastafarian]

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

I saw all I needed to see when he had Manu at PF on the bull's possession when Noah got the putback. No Dice. No Blair. And even though Blair has been playing relatively poorly, he is still the best rebounder on the team. With a tie game and the other team with the ball, you leave your best rebounder on the bench. Totally inexcusable.

[Obstructed_View]

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

How exactly do the Spurs have a window playing an 8 man rotation mainly of guards? When Finley gets back he'll probably get minutes from Jefferson or Dice.

[SCdac]

What I don't understand, is how a veteran like Tim Duncan has not asked Pop and the Spurs franchise to cool it with small-ball. I mean, surely Duncan has a legitimate say when it comes to the playbook, right? Assuming he does, have we to believe he's OK with being the lone big man, the lone shot blocker, in the rotation? That he doesn't view it as overly taxing, like it appears to be?.... I really wonder what goes through TD's head.... Not so much Pop, we know what he's thinking.

[z0sa]

The Spurs don't have a 'very strong' chance at making the playoffs. They've had the second easiest schedule in the NBA and have vastly underachieved. They've lost 3 straight at home against beatable competition. The same problems from earlier this season are still there. Our guys are facing injury troubles too, per the usual.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't see athleticism as a problem. This year's team has way more athleticism than any team in the TD Era.

Maybe(I disagree), but our big 3 are all significantly less athletic than previous years..when your core gets older, you expect the FO to surround them with more athleticism to make up for their drop-offs, at least IMO..

We really don't have any athletes in the rotation other than Hill and Jefferson..the problem with RJ is that he's very slow when it comes to lateral quickness, so he doesn't even really have impressive athleticism outside of leaping..

[SenorSpur]

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

Agreed.

However with each passing game, cold, hard reality is setting in and it's beginning to look as though there is no NOW to play for.

The failure of the offseason acquisitions to improve the team makes it appear that the window is just about closed.

[ShoogarBear]

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

70%, and that requires them to play better and suffer no major injuries the rest of the way.

If, however, the Spurs play the second half of the season just like the first half, even without injuries, then they'll finish with about 45-46 wins, which would give them about 25-30% chance of making the playoffs.

[NRHector]

Lottery ain't so bad. We might even have a shot at a solid player.if that was Pop idea for this season then why did he trade Kirk, Fabb and Bruce if the only problem last season was that Manu was hurt, we should of kept the old team

[SequSpur]

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

Manu off this team now would be an improvement.

[timvp]

70%

Noted :smokin

[Va Spur]

We have as good of a chance as anyone (slightly better) than most teams of making the playoffs-- and that's is the sad reality of where we are in 2010.

[Libri]

I'm also concerned that Pop has just lost the ability to motivate this team..

This reminds me. Didn't Pop call out the team already, calling them soft? It looks like it went unnoticed or it didn't make the same headlines as before.

[SenorSpur]

Maybe, but our big 3 are all significantly less athletic than previous years, especially Manu and Tony..when your core gets older, you expect the FO to surround them with more athleticism to make up for their drop-offs, at least IMO...
The Spurs Big Three is also considerably less athletic that the star players on other NBA teams.

We really don't have any athletes in the rotation other than Hill and Jefferson..the problem with RJ is that he's very slow when it comes to lateral quickness, so he doesn't even really have impressive athleticism outside of leaping..
I've thought all year long that RJ looks a bit heavier than in years past. Maybe it's me, but perhaps that is contributing to his lack of lateral quickness.

[Shastafarian]

Timvp,

I don't know which thread to put this in (I already talked about it in this one) but can we discuss why in the hell Manu was in the game at PF for that Bulls possession where Noah got the tip to go ahead 93-91. Was there not a stoppage of play/could the Spurs not have called a timeout somewhere in there? I don't understand why you don't put at least one taller guy in to get a potential game altering rebound.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

You could have just copied and pasted this from 2007 on (and still going).

Small ball is the bane of our existence.

[ShoogarBear]

Noted :smokin

Uh, how exactly do you plan to prove which number is correct?

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs Big Three is also considerably less athletic that the star players on other NBA teams.

I've thought all year long that RJ looks a bit heavier than in years past. Maybe it's me, but perhaps that is contributing to his lack of lateral quickness.

Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO fucked up..

[Kori Ellis]

You could have just copied and pasted this from 2007 on (and still going).

Small ball is the bane of our existence.

As timvp mentioned, the small ball of the past (playing a SF at PF) wasn't as horrible as it is now. Pop seems comfortable rolling with four guards with a big now. It's scary bad.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...

[Chieflion]

Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO fucked up..
Pretty much this. He was losing his athletic ability. I tried to gather some information from Bucks fans on RealGM. Not good defensively, lost lateral quickness and athletic ability. If we got 2005 RJ, then it would be different.

[Johnny RIngo]

if that was Pop idea for this season then why did he trade Kirk, Fabb and Bruce if the only problem last season was that Manu was hurt, we should of kept the old team

You're preaching to the choir. I was never a big fan of RJ. In fact, I've been haggling my brother, for the past three years, about SJax being the missing piece for the Spurs.

[SenorSpur]

Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...

It doesn't make sense not to. Again, they aren't winning anyway, so what the hell.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As timvp mentioned, the small ball of the past (playing a SF at PF) wasn't as horrible as it is now. Pop seems comfortable rolling with four guards with a big now. It's scary bad.

Yeah, I caught up with his explanation of micro ball a little after that reply got posted :lol

Damn, I'd welcome us going back to the 'old' days of small ball. It's like Pop is trying to channel the bastard child of D'Antoni and Nellie out there these days.

[hsxvvd]

Defensively, we simply don't have enough size, and the newly acquired players don't have the smarts either. Opposing teams make adjustments after half time, that we simply don't respond quickly enough too, or better yet predict.

Offensively, Teams have figured us out years ago, and we're not really trying to change it up, even with the new talent we've acquire at the offensive end.

I keep saying it, but I still it think it boils down to a lack of coaching depth. I'm not saying it's Pop, but I am saying we need some new blood in the assistant ranks to provide some support, fresh ideas and some creativity.

[timaios]

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

I think 6 teams are sure to be in front of the Spurs at the end of the season

LA
Dallas
Denver
Portland
Utah
Memphis

Then there's 2 spots left for 5 teams :

San Antonio
Oklahoma City
Houston
Phoenix
New Orleans

The Spurs schedule is insane !!!
5 back to back in March... A lot of +50% teams...

I think the Spurs have a shot at the 8th seed if Oklahoma City, Houston, Phoenix & New Orleans suck BIG time the rest of the season.

For me it's 25% chance Spurs make the playoffs.

[timvp]

Timvp,

I don't know which thread to put this in (I already talked about it in this one) but can we discuss why in the hell Manu was in the game at PF for that Bulls possession where Noah got the tip to go ahead 93-91. Was there not a stoppage of play/could the Spurs not have called a timeout somewhere in there? I don't understand why you don't put at least one taller guy in to get a potential game altering rebound.

Pop had a lot of chances to take the Spurs out of midget ball. The problem is that Pop wants to go small but RJ is such a soft azz player at this point that he's even worst at PF than Manu. I personally think Pop should have put in McDyess and matched him up against Deng but that makes too much sense . . .

[timvp]

Uh, how exactly do you plan to prove which number is correct?

Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs. :hat

[Baseline]

I think a lot of the guys have tuned out Pop, and with good reason. I don't understand why Tim will put up with being the only big on the floor. It's idiocy, and it's completely unfair to Tim.

Obviously Parker isn't happy with Pop, and now we're hearing that Manu may not want to re-sign.

Doesn't surprise me. Dictatorships only work for so long, and then they're overthrown...by their own people.

[td4mvp21]

I just think we are fucked. We will most likely make the playoffs. But, the West is too fucking tough to not have a single round of homecourt advantage at all (which is a situation we are staring right in the face).

[ShoogarBear]

Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs. :hat

Uhh, which would prove nothing. :lol

The only thing that would be definitive would be the Spurs missing the playoffs. :depressed

[neboat]

Manu off this team now would be an improvement.

As Manu gets older, he's becoming more of a Horry type player.... extremely valuable for a championship type team, but can no longer consistently shoulder a heavy load.

[024]

firesale time? everyone sucks but tim duncan.

[timvp]

Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO fucked up..He's not the "EXACT" same player. The big difference is he's not getting to the line. If he were still getting to the line, he'd be a much more efficient player.

You can say his defense is the same but his offense has undeniably declined ... and it's more than just not getting the touches.


Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...


It doesn't make sense not to. Again, they aren't winning anyway, so what the hell.

Well, if hypothetically the Spurs have no shot at the championship, then I would agree that they should play their younger players to build toward next season. But personally I think there is still championship hope this season so I won't agree with anything other than an all-in mentality.

[timvp]

The only thing that would be definitive would be the Spurs missing the playoffs. :depressed

Not really. That could have just been the 5%.

[Obstructed_View]

Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs. :hat


Think about it this way: Vinnie Del Negro just outcoached Pop in crunchtime. Are you really confident about that prediction?

If the Spurs make the playoffs doing what they're doing now, I'll give you credit, but I'd bet that the only way that happens is if some of the teams above them run into misfortune just short of a team plane crash.

The future the Spurs are playing for, as of this moment, is the 2010 postseason. They aren't going to do it limiting minutes with a shortened rotation of three and four guard lineups.

[Trimble87]

Timvp, dont you think that we need either Bonner or Mahinmi to play at least 10m per game for this rotation to work. Come playoff time Bonner will obviously get the nod over Ian which is fine. But I think we need at least 1 more big... Dice/Blair/Duncan just isn't going to cut it.

[ElNono]

It's hard to say this team is more athletic when your top athletes (on paper) barely get to the basket anymore... I'd say Hill is probably the guy that went to the rim more... RJ doesn't even dares attacking the rim... Blair I don't really consider a great athlete... he's more wingspan and hustle than anything else...

[ElNono]

Think about it this way: Vinnie Del Negro just outcoached Pop in crunchtime. Are you really confident about that prediction?

Now take a deep breath... read that line again...
...add that Pop was playing Nellie ball...

:depressed

[timvp]

Timvp, dont you think that we need either Bonner or Mahinmi to play at least 10m per game for this rotation to work. Come playoff time Bonner will obviously get the nod over Ian which is fine. But I think we need at least 1 more big... Dice/Blair/Duncan just isn't going to cut it.

I like three-man bigmen rotations. 1999 and 2003 was Robinson, Duncan, Rose. 2005 was Duncan, Nazr, Horry. 2007 was basically Duncan, Oberto, Horry.

[HarlemHeat37]

He's not the "EXACT" same player. The big difference is he's not getting to the line. If he were still getting to the line, he'd be a much more efficient player.

You can say his defense is the same but his offense has undeniably declined ... and it's more than just not getting the touches.

According to 82games.com his DrawF% is 15.3, which is down from 15.7 last year, which isn't a significant drop-off..

It's significantly down from 2 years ago, but it's pretty much the exact same as last year..

The FO was obviously hoping Jefferson would step his game up and regain his former status now that he joined a potential contender..it obviously hasn't worked out, which speaks volumes on their mistake AND on the fact that Jefferson has no passion to win..

[Baseline]

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

[HarlemHeat37]

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a title and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

[hsxvvd]

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

My exact thoughts, Duncan's numbers are good, but he's not carrying the team down the stretch my any imagination.

He certainly isn't anchoring the defence either. (Albiet as he is expected to do it alone with 4 smurfs.)

[hsxvvd]

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a title and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

No, they had 2 of them.... Garnett & Pierce.

Duncan is not playing at the level of either of them down the stretch.

[024]

the answer isn't on the spurs. the players are soft. this is the 2009 spurs playoff team. spurs came off a first round exit by acquiring an even softer player. they have no one to blame but themselves. if there's no trade or shakeup by the deadline, this team isn't going anywhere. i have seen no signs of jefferson resembling anything remotely close to a defensive stopper, manu has way more crappy games than good ones, and parker has just teetered between average and above average. no way this team is winning anything.

[HarlemHeat37]

No, they had 2 of them.... Garnett & Pierce.

Duncan is not playing at the level of either of them down the stretch.

:lol

[ElNono]

Eventually, it's the defense. The offense can put up points... we just can't stop anybody, and nobody seems to give a shit, which is what's aggravating...

[Obstructed_View]

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

When all it takes to score on the Spurs is to pick Timmy off at the three point line and then outrun everyone to the front of the rim, I'm not sure how much "taking over" is going to help. I guess we should be asking Roger Mason to have done a better job of blocking out Joakim Noah, too.

[Bruno]

Silver Lining?

So Pop plays the right guys and Spurs still lost and it's a silver lining?
I don't think how it can be something good. It just makes the cloud over Spurs' heads even deeper.

Trying to find a silver lining in everything is just plain BS. This team has a lot of upside but some players (mainly Jefferson and Ginobili) aren't playing at all at their previous level and this team has some huge holes in the way it is built.

[ElNono]

At least you can't blame this loss on Bogans...

[Trimble87]

Im getting pretty tired of this hindsight criticisxm of the Jefferson trade. You can talk about how bad he and Dice have been, but we were all giddy with excitement when this trade went down. The Spurs FO deserver a TON of credit for going out and trying to put us in the best position possible. It hasn't worked out very well, yet, but they certainly put the effort in.

As for all this "big trade" speculation... what exactly do you want the spurs to do? You think the rest of the NBA hasn't seen Jefferson suck this year? Who's going to take on his contract now. And really what else do we have to offer? Bonner Finley RMJ for *insert All Star Player here*? Give me a break.

[timvp]

According to 82games.com his DrawF% is 15.3, which is down from 15.7 last year, which isn't a significant drop-off..By changing from being a volume shooter to fitting into a system, a rise in DrawF% should have come naturally. As we've seen, it hasn't.


The FO was obviously hoping Jefferson would step his game up and regain his former status now that he joined a potential contender..it obviously hasn't worked out, which speaks volumes on their mistake AND on the fact that Jefferson has no passion to win..

Yeah, the Spurs were hoping for him to revert back to previous levels. They said so even when the trade was made.

That hasn't happened, to say the least.

[Obstructed_View]

A coach that can't beat the Bulls a single time with this lineup isn't going to be able to win with more talent, even if they maximized the trade value on everyone they've currently got.

[timvp]

Trying to find a silver lining in everything is just plain BS. This team has a lot of upside but some players (mainly Jefferson and Ginobili) aren't playing at all at their previous level and this team has some huge holes in the way it is built.


The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

You are agreeing with me. Plus saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

[Obstructed_View]

You are agreeing with me. Plus saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

The way I interpreted it is that the team has a lot of upside, but the whole team is not being played currently. As long as the people making the lineup decisions stays the same there's not any silver lining to be found.

[Bruno]

saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

No, it isn't a silver lining.
I'm not trying to find some positives into this debacle.

[vy65]

What good is upside or potential if it remains unrealized? If this were earlier on in the year, it would be one thing, e.g., we could look forward to the pieces slowly, albeit eventually, coming together. But, we've passed the season's midpoint, and the team is in stasis, if not regressing.

While everyone, even the haters, agrees this team has gobs of potential, but as it stands now Godot will get here quicker than Spurs Basketball (TM). To me, that makes the clouds blot out the silver lining.

[z0sa]

The silver lining is with Pop. If he uses the right rotations, he could significantly increase our chances at success.

But I don't see it much myself.

[timvp]

No, it isn't a silver lining.
I'm not trying to find some positives into this debacle.

The Spurs having a lot of upside isn't a silver lining?

Okay.....

[ElNono]

Actually, we played Bonner a lot last year, which is going semi-small (camp on the perimeter, poor rebounding, plenty of 2nd chances for the other team). It just looks like if him is not available, Pop will simply go with a freaking guard...

[Bruno]

The Spurs having a lot of upside isn't a silver lining?

Okay.....

Uh, No.

A silver lining would be to say that Spurs could turn things around because they have a lot of upside and that wasn't what I'm saying.

Spurs will need at least a couple of miracles to be again a serious contender. Hoping for miracles isn't seeing a silver lining.

[timvp]

Hoping for miracles isn't seeing a silver lining.


Etymology
Noun

silver lining

1. An unexpected good outcome; especially following some bad event.


I would say that miracles are unexpected . . .

[JustinJDW]

I like the idea of a shortened rotation, but if we are trying to get better at Defense with it, it really isn't smart to have Keith Bogans out of that rotation.

Just a suggestion...

[Bruno]

I would say that miracles are unexpected . . .

http://www.answers.com/topic/silver-lining


n.
A hopeful or comforting prospect in the midst of difficulty.

miracle != prospect.

[Obstructed_View]

No, not really. I guess we're going to niggle over definitions instead of talking about basketball, so...

silver lining 

–noun a sign of hope in an unfortunate or gloomy situation; a bright prospect: Every cloud has a silver lining.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

silver linings are for pussies

duncan cannot keep pulling this entire team's weight, the weak links simply have to step up

[Obstructed_View]

silver linings are for pussies

duncan cannot keep pulling this entire team's weight, the weak links simply have to step up

Yeah, those six foot three guys should have bodied Noah for that rebound. Slackers. ;)

[Baseline]

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a title and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

I disagree. Pierce was a dominant player on the C's championship team. He was way more clutch than Bryant could ever hope to be. He can hit the spot-up three, put it on the floor and pull up, get to the rim, and get to the line. He can score in a a variety of ways, yet doesn't monopolize the ball. Pierce is one of the most underrated go-to guys in the history of the league.

I agree that Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player, but they have multiple weapons and are basically a three-point shooting team. They were also lucky to get to the Finals last year anyway, with Boston's injury to KG, and the matchup nightmare with Cleveland. That said, when he wants to, Dwight Howard can take over games on the defensive end, and he absolutely rules the paint.

My point was that this year's Spurs don't have those types of forces.

[callo1]

One thing that has been made very clear this year is that teams do not fear Spurs defense at all anymore. For the last 3 years there has been an inability to get those big defensive stops when most needed.

Other than Timmy, there is no shot blocking to speak of. DB is a fantastic rebounder, but being undersized hurts his shot bocking ability imho.

Dice is a great guy, but again, not a shot blocker.

The last time the Spurs had an inside threat of any intimidation to speak of was actually when Rasho and Tim were on the floor together.

From a totally objective viewpoint, I see the Spurs having to make a move to get another big to be real contenders for a title. Does that mean I will give up on them if they don't make a move?....no way, anything can happen. As long as the Spurs can avoid certain matchups in the playoffs and have good health, anything can happen.

I'll never jump off the wagon...I was born a Spurs fan and always will be, but the writing is beginning to appear on the wall. Right now the Spurs remind me of the Cowboys after their glory days when they still thought they had the best O-line in the league, and believed they could out muscle any D-line, but in reality, they were not the same dominant team they had been before, but kept trying to be.

One more piece could really change things, but with Bonner's bum hand I think chances of working him in a deal are a bit slim. It is a shame Ian hasn't panned out the way the organization would have liked him to. I actually would have liked to see Ian tonight against the Bulls athletic youth.

The league changing from a big man's league to a sf and 2 guard league has not done the Spurs any favors either..but hey, the focus in on Kobe, Lebron, Melo and Durant...times have changed from the days of Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, and Timmy being market material.

Maybe the team comes together on the Rodeo road trip, but man, they have a boatload of road games after the Allstar break. Making the playoffs in the West is no gimmie anymore, and if Pop continues to sit Tim like he says he is going to do...ugh...I don't wanna go there.

Go Spurs Go !!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah, those six foot three guys should have bodied Noah for that rebound. Slackers. ;)

we didn't go micro ball the whole game, and if our other players that are consistently underwhelming (like rj...) were steppin up, maybe pop doesn't go all crazy with the micro ball

[ElNono]

I disagree. Pierce was a dominant player on the C's championship team. He was way more clutch than Bryant could ever hope to be. He can hit the spot-up three, put it on the floor and pull up, get to the rim, and get to the line. He can score in a a variety of ways, yet doesn't monopolize the ball. Pierce is one of the most underrated go-to guys in the history of the league.

Please... the Celts got bailed out by PJ Brown and Posey when KG and Pierce where choking games and taking series to 7 games...

[dav4463]

I can't take this losing anymore !!!!!!!!!!! I backed this team when they were 21-61 and the year they were 20-62 so I'll never give up, but this losing sucks.

[MannyIsGod]

LJ I'm fairly shocked you think that a lineup of 8 players is a good thing for the Spurs. Bonner and Finley should both be in the rotation. The Spurs will have no legs come the playoffs with an 8 man rotation.

[Muser]

Fuck you pop, wasting the last years of the greatest player to ever play for the spurs with your bullshit micro ball.

[mountainballer]

Midget ball is when there are four guards on the court. Before this year, I don't remember Pop ever going with four guards at the same time.

still room to increase this number. maybe 5 will work. let's just try.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

the Spurs will turn it around by spanking the Nuggets :drunk Nuggets are playing some great ball but beating a good team on the road is a different story for them.

[Chieflion]

There is no silver lining. The worst part of it is that the Spurs rarely come out of a close game the winner.

[Harry Callahan]

This team I think has a 50% chance of making the playoffs and I'm being generous.

I'm bummed.

I should be thankful for an amazing 13 year run of close to a 70% winning percentage. I almost completely forgot what mediocre basketball even looks like.

The Spurs have been the winningest team in pro sports over the last 13 years, so it is hard to stomach anything short of excellence.

Unfortunately, the Spurs truly great players are not what they used to be and teams no longer fear the Spurs.

The Bulls (including their coach) are chumps and still they raised their leg and peed on the Spurs.

Spurs fans must realize a single trade will not fix this thing. This run is over and we get to look forward to some sub .500 basketball in the very near future.

[Bruno]

A true silver lining would be that Pop suddenly went 8 players deep because Bogans, Bonner, Mahinmi and Finley are on the verge of being traded. :stirpot:

[sabar]

The silver lining is that Pop knows he has to get the rotation right or we are destined to lose. The problem is that the team has a million other issues that are going to determine the fate of the season.

I don't know if Pop is trying to innovate with this midget ball or micro ball stuff, but I wouldn't mind never seeing that again. That makes normal small ball look huge.

[TJastal]

Isn't that why going to an 8 man rotation is bad? Ostensibly, the bigger the rotation, the more rest for our horses -- in theory.

Quit bringing facts into this discussion, geez.

[easy7]

The Lakers with Gasol in there will rape any configuration of midget ball. So being an eight seed is not something that I am looking fordward to at all...

[SpurNation]

A silver lining would be seeing a different defensive scheme to compete against the far more athletic players of today's nba.

This scheme worked great in years past when there wasn't as many fast, athletic players as today. That plus after years of implementation...others have caught on to what works against this scheme and the adjustments to that have not been forth coming.

Can't teach height and youth and the ability to be freakishly athletic with that height and youth. Something this team simply doesn't have.

[polandprzem]

I wanted to give my imput on this during the Kori Ellis show after tha Hawks game. But no way. 1st. connection is bad so the voices are late and I do not understand mostly nothing because of bad connection. Also I was lame lately so I quit on making adjustments and breaking myself to provide better outcome so I'm not calling.

Not long time ago I said that the spurs have quite big chances of being in the Finals or taking the LOB trophy. Right now I'm not so sure and the first game when I got really pissed was a game vs Utah. I tought well maybe after that shitty road loses Memphis and Bobcats spurs wanted to prove something playing on their floor.
Nope thay failed and my goodness they are playing bad right now.

And ask players - they acknowledge that and what? "we need to play better"
It always was like that. But we always saw a great potential in that team the famous "flip the switch" - now nobody talks about it. And I don't know if we can be delighted by SPAM this year ...

The main problem I think is that Pop's philosophy of giving themselves a time in aseason to be as good as thay can till the playoffs now hounting them.
Players do not have a sense of urgency! They still think they've got time.
No tehy don't. As long as thay are unable to compete on the highest level with best teams they do not have time to calmly ship to the playoffs.

All in all - it;s tough to think but it is true - the spurs do not have it. Even when playing their best they still are somwhere closer worst teams then better.


Yea not long time ago I was thinking about spurs chances.
We got Cleveland and Boston as the contenders from the east. cleveland are beatable either by experience or Pop. For Boston we would need additional advantage - either Boston player injury or somebody from our bench having incredible series. Same thing when it comes to LA. Denver also are beatable. The Mavs is still unknown.

Where is that sense of urgency?

[romsho]

LJ I'm fairly shocked you think that a lineup of 8 players is a good thing for the Spurs. Bonner and Finley should both be in the rotation. The Spurs will have no legs come the playoffs with an 8 man rotation.

Exactly. What happened to limiting the minutes of Tim, Tony and Manu? An eight man rotation, especially with the current cast, is a recipe for disaster. If what you have isn't good enough to make the playoffs while giving the big three adequate rest over the course of the season, than so be it. So you squeak in with this small, old, beaten down lineup? Who gives a shit? I would much prefer the Spurs roll the dice with Hairston and Mahinmi in a desperate attempt to find some defensive aggression and intensity than continue to roll out this feeble lineup every night and just hope it gets better. It won't.

[rascal]

if that was Pop idea for this season then why did he trade Kirk, Fabb and Bruce if the only problem last season was that Manu was hurt, we should of kept the old team

That old team was finished. What has Fabb, Bruce or Kirk been doing lately in the league.

[mountainballer]

A true silver lining would be that Pop suddenly went 8 players deep because Bogans, Bonner, Mahinmi and Finley are on the verge of being traded. :stirpot:

you can almost hear it.........hey, this package is proper to bring in....HAYWOOD....

I say Bogans and Bonner bring in ..................James Jones
yes I know, this is a WTF.
on the other hand, the SG spot is covered well with Manu, Hill, Mason, so Bogans is the odd man out as he doesn't bring enough size for SF. JJones brings a lot of what is missing in terms of size and defense, can hit an open 3 and is definitely available right now.
the big comes via another trade.

[spurs_philippines]

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

amen to that... let's just hope for the best

[Trimble87]

I like three-man bigmen rotations. 1999 and 2003 was Robinson, Duncan, Rose. 2005 was Duncan, Nazr, Horry. 2007 was basically Duncan, Oberto, Horry.


Isn't the difference that at least one of the bigs in each of those years was a presence on defense? Obviously Robinson and the twin towers. Nazr was a 7 footer who intimidated shots and Horry is the msot tenacious big man ever. Even in 07 we had Oberto who played great position defense next to Tim and come playoff time we had Horry up to his old tricks...

I'm not sure we can expect anywhere near the same production from Duncan and two guys who are 6'9 and under. (although Dice playing up to his previous levels would certainly help)

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I still hope the Spurs can have a season like the '95 Rockets and turn it around. Maybe we need our own Drexler-type trade in february.

[JR3]

I just want him to try and get Ian integrated as best he can this late in the season.

I agree. this is important. especially if we are not trading for an athletic big.

[in2deep]

we need to see some of Ian or Rattliff out there. Blair is great but is getting raped at the post. We need length in some instances.

[Spurs Brazil]

We're in big trouble and it'll get worst with the schedule ahead

My last hope is they can somehow get together on Rodeo Road Trip, like 2003 and start building from there.

And we'll be fighting for a playoff spot instead of seeding in the top 4. Will Pop rest TD in back to backs with playoffs in danger?

[timvp]

LJ I'm fairly shocked you think that a lineup of 8 players is a good thing for the Spurs. Bonner and Finley should both be in the rotation. The Spurs will have no legs come the playoffs with an 8 man rotation.

Disagree. The depth of a rotation is overrated. With an 8-man rotation, you can give everyone enough rest.

C Blair - 26
PF Duncan - 32
SF Jefferson - 33
SG Hill - 32
PG Parker - 32

C/PF McDyess - 28
SF/SG Ginobili - 28
SF/SG Mason - 28

That rotation would allow for everyone to stay reasonably fresh. An 8-man rotation, as long as each of the eight players is getting 25+ minutes, isn't too taxing.

The rest of the players would get playing time due to either foul trouble or if something is needed such as shooting (Bonner or Finley) or defense (Bogans).

When Pop gets serious with his rotation, it has usually been a 9-man rotation. The only difference with this arrangement is that Hill is playing roles that usually necessitate two players: starting shooting guard and backup point guard.

[TJastal]

Disagree. The depth of a rotation is overrated. With an 8-man rotation, you can give everyone enough rest.

C Blair - 26
PF Duncan - 32
SF Jefferson - 33
SG Hill - 32
PG Parker - 32

C/PF McDyess - 28
SF/SG Ginobili - 28
SF/SG Mason - 28

That rotation would allow for everyone to stay reasonably fresh. An 8-man rotation, as long as each of the eight players is getting 25+ minutes, isn't too taxing.

The rest of the players would get playing time due to either foul trouble or if something is needed such as shooting (Bonner or Finley) or defense (Bogans).

When Pop gets serious with his rotation, it has usually been a 9-man rotation. The only difference with this arrangement is that Hill is playing roles that usually necessitate two players: starting shooting guard and backup point guard.

The spurs should have a rotation of 4 bigs at least until April. For the simple fact that Duncan and Dice are not young gazelles out there. This strategy will almost certainly guarantee either an injury or exhaustion before the playoffs even start.

And Bogans sucks. The spurs should give Hairston an opportunity.

[timvp]

Exactly. What happened to limiting the minutes of Tim, Tony and Manu?

Even with the 8-man rotation, Duncan played his fewest minutes in a losing effort in a long time. Ginobili played fewer minutes than the previous three games and around the mark he should average. Parker's minutes were about the same as they have been lately -- and his playing time isn't really affected by the 8-man rotation since his backup is still in the rotation.

To be clear, I still want minutes limited. But I am also in favor of Pop picking and sticking with a rotation that makes sense. His ever-changing rotation has hurt the chemistry of this team and the Spurs need wins too much right now for Pop to continue his mad scientist ways. You can rest the Big 3 while only playing an 8-man rotation that features other players when needed.

[slayermin]

Spurs have a tough schedule the rest of the way. But so does everyone in the West. Barring injury, it's a given. The Spurs will make it in.

[TJastal]

Even with the 8-man rotation, Duncan played his fewest minutes in a losing effort in a long time. Ginobili played fewer minutes than the previous three games and around the mark he should average. Parker's minutes were about the same as they have been lately -- and his playing time isn't really affected by the 8-man rotation since his backup is still in the rotation.

To be clear, I still want minutes limited. But I am also in favor of Pop picking and sticking with a rotation that makes sense. His ever-changing rotation has hurt the chemistry of this team and the Spurs need wins too much right now for Pop to continue his mad scientist ways. You can rest the Big 3 while only playing an 8-man rotation that features other players when needed.

What has ruined the chemistry is POop benching Duncan in tough back-to-back games. That's what has snapped TWO good winning streaks and messed up the confidence and chemistry of the team.

It's not too late to see what Hairston has to offer or maybe even Ian at this point. There is much parity in the league right now (surprisingly). It is not a clear cut playoff picture so the spurs are not necessarily in a win-now-at-all-costs mode.

And the 8 man rotation is not enough, its only halfway through the season. I don't even think it's a good idea once playoffs roll around. 9-10 man rotation is good, any more than that then no.

[TJastal]

The advantage of a 9-10 man rotation is it allows Pop to see who is playing well any particular night and the option to use that player more.

[baseline bum]

The silver lining is that at least we'll have the real Parker back next season.

[mexicanjunior]

Spurs have a tough schedule the rest of the way. But so does everyone in the West. Barring injury, it's a given. The Spurs will make it in.

I would guess we have a tougher schedule going forward than just about any of the other top West teams...with more than likely fewer home games.

Besides...is clawing and scratching our way to a 7th-8th seed what we really want?

[lurker23]

To be clear, I still want minutes limited. But I am also in favor of Pop picking and sticking with a rotation that makes sense. His ever-changing rotation has hurt the chemistry of this team and the Spurs need wins too much right now for Pop to continue his mad scientist ways. You can rest the Big 3 while only playing an 8-man rotation that features other players when needed.

There is some truth to this. If Pop picks an 8-man rotation, sticks with it for 3 months, and the team doesn't gel, then they never really had a chance to gel to begin with.




C Blair - 26
PF Duncan - 32
SF Jefferson - 33
SG Hill - 32
PG Parker - 32

C/PF McDyess - 28
SF/SG Ginobili - 28
SF/SG Mason - 28

Also, if you're going to pick 8 guys and only 8 guys from this team, that would probably be the 8.

Personally, I would take a few minutes from a few of the above columns and give Bonner a steady 8-15 minutes per game. I feel that the last few weeks has shown that his offense fills a notable gap in the team's strategy, and at times he plays more solid defense than Blair. However, I can also see the argument in keeping the regular rotation short and putting Bonner into more of a Ratliff role, where he only gets that 8-15 when his skill set particularly matches up with the opponent.

[in2deep]

8 man rotation?!?!?!?!

so when playoffs come around Tim, Manu and Tony are gonna play with a pair of bloddy stumps for legs???

[DAF86]

I like the 8 men rotation, but I would like more a 9 men rotation that involves Ian. I don't get why some say that it's already too late to work him into the rotation, in 2005 we traded for Mohamed in the middle of the season and he turned out to be very useful.

[igruex]

I don't get why are people asking for Ian at this point. There would be little room for him if things were going better than good. As we are right now, you people need to understand that Ian might play only in garbage time. Asking for Ian and stating that we are in big trouble are both inconsistent and contradictory.

On the other hand I agree with lurker23 in finding room for Bonner in the rotation, doesn't matter how much time he plays but he needs to play at least a bit every night. He's not that streaky, he needs regularity to produce at his best.

[barbacoataco]

I see 3 problems (at least) with this year's Spurs. Not sure any can be fixed.

1. Parker is not himself. His inability to break down defenses with penetration has made the whole offense inconsistent,

2. RJ is a big lamo. Neither his defense or offense are cutting it. His defense is NOT a replacement for Bowen, forcing them to play Bogans more than they want.

3. McDyess is underwhelming, Blair is an udersized rookie, and Bonner will never be a starting C for a championship team. This means we are one C/PF short of having a quality front line.

[leemajors]

The silver lining is that at least we'll have the real Parker back next season.

There aren't any French National Team events this summer?

[ffadicted]

lol if anyone watched the RMJ post game interview, even he was talking about "wtf midget ball pop what are you doing", so even the players are realizing this. Hopefully Pop joins them soon

[DAF86]

I don't get why are people asking for Ian at this point. There would be little room for him if things were going better than good. As we are right now, you people need to understand that Ian might play only in garbage time. Asking for Ian and stating that we are in big trouble are both inconsistent and contradictory.

On the other hand I agree with lurker23 in finding room for Bonner in the rotation, doesn't matter how much time he plays but he needs to play at least a bit every night. He's not that streaky, he needs regularity to produce at his best.

Why is it contradictory? I don't get your reasoning.

Yes, we're in big trouble and one of the main reasons for that is that we aren't big enough and we get killed on the paint, Ian could help on that regard a little bit. What's contradictory about that?

[slayermin]

I would guess we have a tougher schedule going forward than just about any of the other top West teams...with more than likely fewer home games.

Besides...is clawing and scratching our way to a 7th-8th seed what we really want?

The last time I checked the standings, the teams ahead of us have played about the same amount of home games. The teams below us have played about three or four less home games. I think our schedule is relative to the rest of the conference.

If we are a 7th or 8th seed, I'll take it. This team has enough playoff and championship experience to cope. But I think we finish fourth or fifth.

Spurs fans really need to wait and see how we finish the last three games with the Lakers. If we look good against them going into the playoffs, I like our chances.

[igruex]

Why is it contradictory? I don't get your reasoning.

Yes, we're in big trouble and one of the main reasons for that is that we aren't big enough and we get killed on the paint, Ian could help on that regard a little bit. What's contradictory about that?

Ian is not some kind of last resource. He still is a good prospect and we already passed this season's first half.

We are currently in the verge of not reaching the playoff. What we need now, as Timvp already said, is to shorten up the rotation.

At this point we aren't even close to have time for Ian to develop into ... hmph, something.

[DPG21920]

I don't get how people can mention RJ+Manu as the main problems when TP's play has been worse. Not to mention, his decline hurts the team more than Manu's and RJ's. I know TP has an "excuse", but his drastic drop in play for whatever reason is hurting this team just as badly as anyone else.

[kace]

Disagree. The depth of a rotation is overrated. With an 8-man rotation, you can give everyone enough rest.

C Blair - 26
PF Duncan - 32
SF Jefferson - 33
SG Hill - 32
PG Parker - 32

C/PF McDyess - 28
SF/SG Ginobili - 28
SF/SG Mason - 28

.

am i wrong or this rotation would imply 10 minutes of small ball, almost a quarter ?

[igruex]

I don't get how people can mention RJ+Manu as the main problems when TP's play has been worse. Not to mention, his decline hurts the team more than Manu's and RJ's. I know TP has an "excuse", but his drastic drop in play for whatever reason is hurting this team just as badly as anyone else.

Packing RJ and Manu together is totally wrong. Manu is shooting like shit, it's highly probable that he regains his shooting with time (I don't even want to think that his legs are the problem though). Other than that, and overall, he's playing good.

The problem with Tony is that, this season, everyone expected him to be the most dominant player of the Spurs.. and he's not even close to that.

[DAF86]

Ian is not some kind of last resource. He still is a good prospect and we already passed this season's first half.

We are currently in the verge of not reaching the playoff. What we need now, as Timvp already said, is to shorten up the rotation.

At this point we aren't even close to have time for Ian to develop into ... hmph, something.

I'm sure that if Pop gives him the playing time he would do OK, but if he doesn't then play Ratliff or trade for a 6'10'', 6'11'', 7'0'' guy, our problems won't be fixed until we get a big prsence inside to help Tim.

[DPG21920]

I don't think Manu is playing that great. He had a stretch where he was passing extremely well, but that has gone by the way side a little bit as of late

A look at RJ's numbers vs Manu's:

RJ: 31 MPG, 12.5 PTS, 3.6 REB, 2.1 AST, .6 STL, .4 BLK, 1.4 TO's, 46% FG, 36% 3PT, 70% FT

Manu: 27 MPG, 12.8 PTS, 3.6 REB, 4.4 AST, 1.4 STL, .4 BLK, 1.9 TO's, 39% FG, 36% 3PT, 86% FT

[kace]

I don't get how people can mention RJ+Manu as the main problems when TP's play has been worse. Not to mention, his decline hurts the team more than Manu's and RJ's.

lol



A look at RJ's numbers vs Manu's:

RJ: 31 MPG, 12.5 PTS, 3.6 REB, 2.1 AST, .6 STL, .4 BLK, 1.4 TO's, 46% FG, 36% 3PT, 70% FT

Manu: 27 MPG, 12.8 PTS, 3.6 REB, 4.4 AST, 1.4 STL, .4 BLK, 1.9 TO's, 39% FG, 36% 3PT, 86% FT

so add tony's stat line, and you'll see why your previous statement is just plain false.

[slayermin]

I don't get how people can mention RJ+Manu as the main problems when TP's play has been worse. Not to mention, his decline hurts the team more than Manu's and RJ's. I know TP has an "excuse", but his drastic drop in play for whatever reason is hurting this team just as badly as anyone else.

TP needs to focus on playmaking. It's getting better but he has to find some type of offensive cohesion with RJ. RJ needs to get as many plays slashing to the basket as possible. I don't know if it's going to happen this season but hopefully, it will before the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

lol



so add tony's stat line, and you'll see why your previous statement is just plain false.

Oh really, are you saying TP has played well? Are you saying that his dip in stats is not worse than those two?

TP 2010: 32 MPG, 17 PTS, 2.5 REB, 5.7 AST, .5 STLS, .2 BLKS, 2.7 TO's, 48%FG, 27%3PT, 77% FT.

RJ: 31 MPG, 12.5 PTS, 3.6 REB, 2.1 AST, .6 STL, .4 BLK, 1.4 TO's, 46% FG, 36% 3PT, 70% FT

Manu: 27 MPG, 12.8 PTS, 3.6 REB, 4.4 AST, 1.4 STL, .4 BLK, 1.9 TO's, 39% FG, 36% 3PT, 86% FT

That is really not much better than anyone else. Especially if you watch the games. TP has been a non factor in many games and has cost the Spurs many games with his decisions. Not to mention he was a TO machine for a long stretch there. He was supposed to be the best of the big 3 going forward, but instead he has taken the largest step backwards.

[DPG21920]

A look at PER:

TP: 23.4 from last year to 17.1 this year.

Manu: 22.9 from last year to 19.7 this year.

RJ: 15.4 from last year to 12.9 this year.

So even though TP does not have the worst PER of the 3, he certainly has the biggest drop off by a large margin and a worse PER than Manu. Like I said, you cannot chastise RJ and Manu and leave out TP. His drop in play has hurt the team the most, which is what I meant originally.

[MannyIsGod]

Ian is not that fucking good. Jesus fuck people go insane over ONE good game.

[igruex]

I'm sure that if Pop gives him the playing time he would do OK

:lol

What's doing ok to Ian? Playing 3-4 awesome minutes? It'll fix most of our problems.. I'm sure!

And I repeat, Manu is playing good, shooting horrible. He'll bring it if healthy, and he's been healthy a somehow long time. He's the last of our problems.

By the way, stats doesn't reflect RJ suckness. He's not being the defender the FO was sure he would be, playing for a tough team, and a contender, like the Spurs. If that definitely proves as a mistake by the FO (and I still have some hope) we're done for the season (we will be no match for the Lakers).

[baseline bum]

Ian is not that fucking good. Jesus fuck people go insane over ONE good game.

Ian = POPS 2010

[TJastal]

I don't get how people can mention RJ+Manu as the main problems when TP's play has been worse. Not to mention, his decline hurts the team more than Manu's and RJ's. I know TP has an "excuse", but his drastic drop in play for whatever reason is hurting this team just as badly as anyone else.

There is some ring of truth to this. Personally, I thought TP and Blair played just as bad if not worse on defense yesterday than did anyone else on the team.

[EricB]

Ian = POPS 2010

:lol

Ian Mensah Bonsu

[Shastafarian]

How do we know Ian isn't good when he NEVER FUCKING PLAYS. And before any of you respond with, "well he never plays because obviously he isn't good" I will preempt you with, "2008/2009 George Hill called and thinks your reason is bullshit. Also, 2008/2009 Gregg Popovich called and doesn't remember a thing about the season he coached".

[SouthTexasRancher]

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .


Damn, I thought you were going to tell us that Pop & RC had traded RJ & Dice for Kobe & Dirk.

[Obstructed_View]

Ian is not that fucking good. Jesus fuck people go insane over ONE good game.

If he's not any good, then why play him against New Jersey? If he plays well once, why never play him again? You cannot possibly know if he's any good or not because he's not getting any minutes.

If he's not any good, why are his numbers better with only three games played than McDyess or Bonner?

[kace]

Oh really, are you saying TP has played well? Are you saying that his dip in stats is not worse than those two?

TP 2010: 32 MPG, 17 PTS, 2.5 REB, 5.7 AST, .5 STLS, .2 BLKS, 2.7 TO's, 48%FG, 27%3PT, 77% FT.

RJ: 31 MPG, 12.5 PTS, 3.6 REB, 2.1 AST, .6 STL, .4 BLK, 1.4 TO's, 46% FG, 36% 3PT, 70% FT

Manu: 27 MPG, 12.8 PTS, 3.6 REB, 4.4 AST, 1.4 STL, .4 BLK, 1.9 TO's, 39% FG, 36% 3PT, 86% FT

That is really not much better than anyone else. Especially if you watch the games. TP has been a non factor in many games and has cost the Spurs many games with his decisions. Not to mention he was a TO machine for a long stretch there. He was supposed to be the best of the big 3 going forward, but instead he has taken the largest step backwards.

to say that he has the biggest drop (which is yet to prove) of the three doesn't mean the same thing as to say he's been the worst of the three like you did.

Add 4.3 shots per game for Tony, to match his last season FGA/game, and you have a tony scoring + 20 ppg at almost 50 %.

I won't argue that tony isn't at the same level as last year. but he's still clearly the 2nd best player on the team. when you look at those stat lines (oh and tony's FG % is 49) and you say that tony's one is not better than the 2 other ones : :lol

[Duncan21kid]

tony is NOT the second best player on this team... open your eyes

[kace]

tony is NOT the second best player on this team... open your eyes

who, outside Tim, is better than tony right now on the spurs ? i'm just curious to see your answer.......

[Obstructed_View]

to say that he has the biggest drop (which is yet to prove) of the three doesn't mean the same thing as to say he's been the worst of the three like you did.

He's the biggest disappointment on the team this season. Get over it. You can still kiss your Tony Parker pillow good night.

[polandprzem]

He's the biggest disappointment on the team this season. Get over it. You can still kiss your Tony Parker pillow good night.

bit wrong


And it's funny that you and others wants to point out one player for shitty spurs play.

It was always team effort in this club and to say that parker is the biggest disaapoitment is not right when McD RJ manu are not on the level we expected them to be.

[polandprzem]

And one more thing - i don't get it why Pop did not used more or did not provide some zone defenses. It would be nice to have something besides 1-1 defense when we lack of goood permieter defenders.

[Chieflion]

And one more thing - i don't get it why Pop did not used more or did not provide some zone defenses. It would be nice to have something besides 1-1 defense when we lack of goood permieter defenders.
It is because most zone defenses don't defend 3 point shots well. The defensive system wants people to defend the 3 well. Zone defense also needs smart defenders.

[polandprzem]

It's better to give freeway to the basket then.

[Chieflion]

It's better to give freeway to the basket then.
Well, you can probably play a 4 man zone with a free man guarding the shooter, but most coaches despise zone and believe teams who play zone is pussy.

[Chomag]

Ian is not that fucking good. Jesus fuck people go insane over ONE good game.

Perhaps just as insane as you are going on about Ian not being good over 1 game. Most don't think he is D'rob reincarnated but just would like to see what he can provide given more chances to see what he could provide. With the current front line the way it is whats to lose.

[polandprzem]

Well, you can probably play a 4 man zone with a free man guarding the shooter, but most coaches despise zone and believe teams who play zone is pussy.



Well I don't mind an effective pussy


7 game finals 2005 pop goes with zone that disturbs pistons and accualy gives us championship

[benefactor]

Well I don't mind an effective pussy

It certainly helps, doesn't it. :)

[Chomag]

As long as Spurs have TD we will allways have a chance at the playoffs, but this team as a whole is so bad right now those chances are becoming slim.

[GrandeDavid]

Hey LJ, long time no talk! I hope you and your family are doing great! All is terrific in Brasilia with mine.

Listen, I wanted to get your take since I'm on sort of an island as far as my "Spurs life" goes. I subscribe to NBA League Pass, which is awesome, and pretty much catch games early before work, summarized and by myself. Obviously I haven't liked what I've seen but haven't really dialogued with anyone other than occasionally complain to a friend or family via email about the latest loss. lol

Say the Spurs finish strong but with a 4 or 5 seed, not winning the divsion or receiving any special accolades. Do you see this team as realistically having the potential to make a championship run, literally win it all, with this roster? Do you think that they have the tools and the sufficient amount of time left to develop the hard-nosed chemistry to win three tough road playoff series to hoist the trophy? I can't help thinking of the Rockets of 1993 or 1994 when they did it as a 6th seed. However, times are different now. What are your thoughts?

I know I'm probably getting you to repeat yourself, so if you'd prefer, please just cut and paste! lol

I've enjoyed your writing, logic and analysis. You've got nice talent, so stay encouraged and focused! Thanks!

[SenorSpur]

How do we know Ian isn't good when he NEVER FUCKING PLAYS. And before any of you respond with, "well he never plays because obviously he isn't good" I will preempt you with, "2008/2009 George Hill called and thinks your reason is bullshit. Also, 2008/2009 Gregg Popovich called and doesn't remember a thing about the season he coached".

:tu

It's not like the Spurs are on some 13-game winning streak. What? Ian is going to cause the Spurs to lose games?

No one is saying Ian is some savior or that he'll even make huge difference. The point is none of us know. The fact remains that teams are blowing by the Spurs like "wind through trees". When Kirk Hinrich breaks down your defense and gets to the rim, at will, then you know you have issues, defensively.

Seeing as how the team is losing games, at an alarming rate, it is time to do something different. There is absolutely no reason not to play this kid. It's as good a time as any.

If the idea of playing Ian seems ridiculous, losing 5 out of 6 should be an alarm to all that it's time to give the ridiculous a try.

[timvp]

Say the Spurs finish strong but with a 4 or 5 seed, not winning the divsion or receiving any special accolades. Do you see this team as realistically having the potential to make a championship run, literally win it all, with this roster? Do you think that they have the tools and the sufficient amount of time left to develop the hard-nosed chemistry to win three tough road playoff series to hoist the trophy? I can't help thinking of the Rockets of 1993 or 1994 when they did it as a 6th seed. However, times are different now. What are your thoughts?

The Spurs will have to improve immensely to get to a championship level. (In fact, they will have to improve considerably just to end up with the fourth seed.) A championship right now definitely looks like a long shot with the way the roster is composed but I think there's a chance.

TP and Manu would need to get healthy, stay healthy and play at very high levels. Duncan will need to avoid the physical letdown he suffered last season in the second half. Then the role players would need to fit in better. RJ would need to find his niche, McDyess would need to defrost and return to his normal level, Hill would need to continue to blossom, Blair would need to keep learning and improving ... and so on down the list.

The good news is that every team out there is beatable. I view the Lakers as far and away the best team in the NBA but they aren't unbeatable. The Spurs would have to play at their best to have a chance but the talent and upside is there.

All that said, reaching a high level might not even be the most challenging part because I think there's a relatively good chance that the Spurs fight through their funk and turn it around. The more challenging aspect will probably be staying at a high level. With as fragile as the Big 3 are right now, it'd take somewhat of a miracle to remain healthy and rested enough to endure an entire playoff run.

[crc21209]

The Spurs will have to improve immensely to get to a championship level. (In fact, they will have to improve considerably just to end up with the fourth seed.) A championship right now definitely looks like a long shot with the way the roster is composed but I think there's a chance.

TP and Manu would need to get healthy, stay healthy and play at very high levels. Duncan will need to avoid the physical letdown he suffered last season in the second half. Then the role players would need to fit in better. RJ would need to find his niche, McDyess would need to defrost and return to his normal level, Hill would need to continue to blossom, Blair would need to keep learning and improving ... and so on down the list.

The good news is that every team out there is beatable. I view the Lakers as far and away the best team in the NBA but they aren't unbeatable. The Spurs would have to play at their best to have a chance but the talent and upside is there.

All that said, reaching a high level might not even be the most challenging part because I think there's a relatively good chance that the Spurs fight through their funk and turn it around. The more challenging aspect will probably be staying at a high level. With as fragile as the Big 3 are right now, it'd take somewhat of a miracle to remain healthy and rested enough to endure an entire playoff run.

Agreed 100%. If the Spurs were to somehow pull it together and win the championship, it would be the greatest Spurs championship run since the first title in 99'....especially after all these struggles just in the regular season.

[polandprzem]

Dream mode ON

[dbestpro]

The Spurs will have to improve immensely to get to a championship level. (In fact, they will have to improve considerably just to end up with the fourth seed.) A championship right now definitely looks like a long shot with the way the roster is composed but I think there's a chance.

TP and Manu would need to get healthy, stay healthy and play at very high levels. Duncan will need to avoid the physical letdown he suffered last season in the second half. Then the role players would need to fit in better. RJ would need to find his niche, McDyess would need to defrost and return to his normal level, Hill would need to continue to blossom, Blair would need to keep learning and improving ... and so on down the list.

The good news is that every team out there is beatable. I view the Lakers as far and away the best team in the NBA but they aren't unbeatable. The Spurs would have to play at their best to have a chance but the talent and upside is there.

All that said, reaching a high level might not even be the most challenging part because I think there's a relatively good chance that the Spurs fight through their funk and turn it around. The more challenging aspect will probably be staying at a high level. With as fragile as the Big 3 are right now, it'd take somewhat of a miracle to remain healthy and rested enough to endure an entire playoff run.

My summary to a championship level is stop playing small ball and start dictating the match ups.

[timvp]

start dictating the match ups.

I'm not sure Pop has dictated a matchup in his coaching history. He's a counterpuncher.

[dbestpro]

I'm not sure Pop has dictated a matchup in his coaching history. He's a counterpuncher.

Then he needs to keep his left up (play big defense) cause he's about to get knocked out (no playoffs).

[polandprzem]

Pop making diferent variations and it was always in spurs.
He thinks he has no choice. He thinks that Ian is not ready and won't be helpfull in the playoffs so he decides not to play him. All in all he have Bonner and Dyess there.
Antonio is not giving us what we want so Pop goes with small ball lineups, it might help the offense but D is hard to well it;s hard to provide one with such disadventage. [that's why now I wuld wish we could sign Gortat insted of McDyess]
RJ is not there as well. A much needed long athletic 3 we were looking for 8 or something years.\
They also thinks thay got time so they are not on the same page or play level as individually as in team.

[lefty]

Timvp or Bruno, do you guys think Pop could be on the hot seat or that his untouchable?

[objective]

Then he needs to keep his left up (play big defense) cause he's about to get knocked out (no playoffs).

classic :lol

[timvp]

Then he needs to keep his left up (play big defense) cause he's about to get knocked out (no playoffs).

:lol Good one.


Timvp or Bruno, do you guys think Pop could be on the hot seat or that his untouchable?

Pop is here as long as he wants to be here.

[Blackjack]

Then he needs to keep his left up (play big defense) cause he's about to get knocked out (no playoffs).

Nah, it will just end in an ugly decision that leaves fans numb and in bitter disappointment (see: Winky Wright).

[lefty]

:lol Good one.



Pop is here as long as he wants to be here.
Fuck :bang; oh well, he did lead us to 4 titles, can't complain

[ShoogarBear]

I'm not sure Pop has dictated a matchup in his coaching history. He's a counterpuncher.

When he had DRob and Tim the first 2-3 years he dictated.

[HarlemHeat37]

When he had DRob and Tim the first 2-3 years he dictated.

Well, to be fair, it's tough not to when you have 2 top 20 all-time players in the same frontcourt..

[timvp]

When he had DRob and Tim the first 2-3 years he dictated.

Well, yeah, what was he going to do ... sit one of them? :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Well, yeah, what was he going to do ... sit one of them? :lol

Pop 2006-2010 probably would. :depressed

[Bruno]

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court.

:rollin

[timvp]

:lmao

fml