Wojnarowski: Spurs consider bidding for Stoudemire

[yavozerb]

I would even do this deal: Amare+hill for RJ+Dyess+Tiago

[ElNono]

Unfortunately, if this doesn't go down now, we'll have the crybabies (you know who you are) screaming how we should have gotten Amare for Manu when we had a chance (when we don't really know jackshit about the details).

[Chomag]

I agree that Bowen had a privileged body. I also think Manu will probably switch from being a full-on penetrator to more of a shooter and playmaker. While his shooting has been off this season so far, it's not something you lose with age. And we all know about his playmaking abilities. Again, as a seasoned vet next to peaking superstar, I think he's extremely valuable.

To me that is kind of putting Manu in a roll player position. Spurs can't win with that they need a big 3. So if Manu has regressed into that kind of roll we need a player step into a big 3 roll. I guess that was the reason why the RJ trade but we all know how well that has gone.

[hater]

Unfortunately, if this doesn't go down now, we'll have the crybabies (you know who you are) screaming how we should have gotten Amare for Manu when we had a chance (when we don't really know jackshit about the details).

and somehow they will ultimately blame international play for this deal not going down

[Gooshie]

1. Trade Manu, Bonner, and Splitter's rights for Amare.

2. Re-sign Amare at a reasonable price this summer (or use him in a sign-and trade for another big man)

3. Try and re-sign Manu with the MLE this summer. As good as Manu has been, no other team is going to offer him more than the MLE this summer. Also, by trading Splitter's rights, we wouldn't have to spend the MLE on him.

[ElNono]

To me that is kind of putting Manu in a roll player posistion. Spurs can't win with that they need a big 3. So if Manu has regresed into that kind of roll we need a player step into a bir 3 roll. I guess that was the reason why the RJ trade but we all know how well that has gone.

Well, that was exactly the reason, IMO. The brighter side is that even if Manu is not shooting well and Tony is hobbled, we're a scoring machine by all standards. We just can't get over the hump of losing a defensive monster in Bowen.

[Pero]

My biggest question, is why would the Suns do this deal. Splitter might never come the NBA, and draft pick they receive wouldn't be a lottery pick and Manu would be gone after this season. I'd honestly think they'd be able to get a better deal if they tried.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I don't know for you but, I, as a fan, and even if I think Manu has been quite bad this year, wouldn't trade Manu. I consider him as nearly untradable and that he should end his career in SA.

And I agree with you.


Wojnarowski is a damn serious source. He isn't in the Hoopsworld category, so this rumor could be legit. If Spurs are considering trading Manu for Stoudamire (who isn't that great), there is a huge gap between how I value Manu and how the FO values it.

Indeed. AW is a legit writer. But please re-read him. He makes it clear that the Spurs are trying to get Amar'e from the Suns, but he speculates on whether they would trade Manu + Hill for the same. Nowhere does he suggest that Manu + Hill is the offer that the Spurs are considering. So, I don't think that the FO is trading Manu for sure or even considering the same, from AW's piece.

[alchemist]

And I agree with you.



Indeed. AW is a legit writer. But please re-read him. He makes it clear that the Spurs are trying to get Amar'e from the Suns, but he speculates on whether they would trade Manu + Hill for the same. Nowhere does he suggest that Manu + Hill is the offer that the Spurs are considering. So, I don't think that the FO is trading Manu for sure or even considering the same, from AW's piece.
There's no way they take RJ, Manu is only piece that works + filler.

[cd98]

Amare had massive knee surgery and tends to miss the last half of seasons with injuries. He's a suspect defender and I don't know that he complements Tim. Too risky at this point in the season with the Spurs already behind schedule and the need to win now.

The Spurs need some defense and if they want to partner in this move to bring in a few defenders, then I'm all for it.

An Amare acquisition is an offseason consideration, not a midseason decision. If he's not good enough to vault the Suns into contention with Steve Nash at the helm, then he won't do much for San Antonio except keep us in mediocrity.

[koriwhat]

No manu and no gh3! Fuck that trade!

[hater]

take Nash from Amare and he will not look the same at all. this trade is not happening. book it.

[Buddy Holly]

Amare had massive knee surgery and tends to miss the last half of seasons with injuries. He's a suspect defender and I don't know that he complements Tim. Too risky at this point in the season with the Spurs already behind schedule and the need to win now.

Manu had surgery and tends to miss the last half of the season with injuries.


The Spurs need some defense and if they want to partner in this move to bring in a few defenders, then I'm all for it.

Who's to say Amare won't be a better defender with the Spurs and along side Duncan?


If he's not good enough to vault the Suns into contention with Steve Nash at the helm, then he won't do much for San Antonio except keep us in mediocrity.

Couldn't you say the same for Manu along side Duncan and Parker? We're really not contenders with Manu now and if we're not contenders with Amare then we lose nothing but we have a lot to gain with Amare if it works out.

[xtremesteven33]

Amare doesnt play defense cause he plays in a system where defense is not enforced. Amare still has potential to play good defense. He has great timing for blocks, he just needs patience and intensity. Timmy can definitely help him out there.

[Buddy Holly]

take Nash from Amare and he will not look the same at all.

He looked like a monster back when he played with crazy ass Marbury.

Since then he's added a nice jumper.

[benefactor]

Amare doesnt play defense cause he plays in a system where defense is not enforced. Amare still has potential to play good defense. He has great timing for blocks, he just needs patience and intensity. Timmy can definitely help him out there.
Jefferson has "potential" too. We see how well that is working out.

[xtremesteven33]

Jefferson has "potential" too. We see how well that is working out.



Jefferson is the softest player in the NBA also...

[DynastySpurs210]

I just cant imagine Manu aside with steve Nash, i dont know feels like manu gonna prove us wrong and become an AllStar next year.


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H4ssq4jD3_Q/0.jpg

[jbspurs]

Horrible idea.

Lets just get rid of our best pick and roll passer (Manu) for a pick and roll dunker.

And you know Tony doesn't pass like Nash can.:bang

Not only that! Who's gonna pass to Blair on a pick and roll?

[benefactor]

Jefferson is the softest player in the NBA also...
But he was an above average defender in his NJ days. The thinking was that when he got to SA and into a system that stressed defense he would go back to it.

It's basically the same scenario with Amare, except he has never played defense. It's an awful lot of money to be playing guessing games with.

[My Fault]

Kinda late to this but from I understand Hill might be put in the package to get this done and if that's the case I say no way. I like what I see with Hill and he is only getting better so no way I give him up for a player likely to bounce after the season ends.

[elbamba]

We can trade crappy defense for shitty defense

[tp2021]

It's an awful lot of money to be playing guessing games with.

Right now nobody knows that better than Mr. Peter Holt.

[G-Nob]

All this is mute if Rasheed wouldn't have gone to the dame C's.

[EricB]

All this is mute if Rasheed wouldn't have gone to the dame C's.


Uh celtics fans HATE Rasheed. He's stunk there royally. Read bill simmon's columns and he talks about their disdain for sheed...

[benefactor]

All this is mute if Rasheed wouldn't have gone to the dame C's.
CMIIW, but hasn't he looked pretty bad this season?

[Leetonidas]

All this is mute if Rasheed wouldn't have gone to the dame C's.

:rollin

Wallace blows.

[G-Nob]

Sarcasm, peeps.

[MannyIsGod]

Manu in a trade for Amare Stodamire and its actually anything but a no brainier? I know people harp on Stodamire's defense but look at the place he's played. He's never had a coach like Pop (don't you dare even bring up Porter) or a system like this to work with. The Spurs would immediately become the best shot blocking team in the league.

Manu is no where close to Franchise level. He's not even that close to All Star level anymore and he sure as hell doesn't posses a lot of upside. He's a fan favorite with a lot of heart but as much as I loved what he did in 2005 he's not the same player. If he was the Spurs wouldn't have lost five out of six at the moment.

I do this trade and I count my blessings if the Suns are stupid enough to accept it. I can't see this as anything but a trade deadline deal, however. No way the Suns do this before they absolutely have to.

[CGD]

Indeed. AW is a legit writer. But please re-read him. He makes it clear that the Spurs are trying to get Amar'e from the Suns, but he speculates on whether they would trade Manu + Hill for the same. Nowhere does he suggest that Manu + Hill is the offer that the Spurs are considering. So, I don't think that the FO is trading Manu for sure or even considering the same, from AW's piece.

:tu

[Buddy Holly]

Manu in a trade for Amare Stodamire and its actually anything but a no brainier? I know people harp on Stodamire's defense but look at the place he's played. He's never had a coach like Pop (don't you dare even bring up Porter) or a system like this to work with. The Spurs would immediately become the best shot blocking team in the league.

Manu is no where close to Franchise level. He's not even that close to All Star level anymore and he sure as hell doesn't posses a lot of upside. He's a fan favorite with a lot of heart but as much as I loved what he did in 2005 he's not the same player. If he was the Spurs wouldn't have lost five out of six at the moment.

I do this trade and I count my blessings if the Suns are stupid enough to accept it. I can't see this as anything but a trade deadline deal, however. No way the Suns do this before they absolutely have to.

Exactly. People are thinking too much with their hearts and not their brain.

[Buddy Holly]

If we can get him for RJ then do it. But if it takes Manu, do it too.

[Pero]

LOL at people still thinking Spurs will get Amare for Manu. Unless the Suns would be doing other trades as well, Lakers trading Kobe for Manu makes more sense than this.

[G-Nob]

Manu in a trade for Amare Stodamire and its actually anything but a no brainier? I know people harp on Stodamire's defense but look at the place he's played. He's never had a coach like Pop (don't you dare even bring up Porter) or a system like this to work with. The Spurs would immediately become the best shot blocking team in the league.

Manu is no where close to Franchise level. He's not even that close to All Star level anymore and he sure as hell doesn't posses a lot of upside. He's a fan favorite with a lot of heart but as much as I loved what he did in 2005 he's not the same player. If he was the Spurs wouldn't have lost five out of six at the moment.

I do this trade and I count my blessings if the Suns are stupid enough to accept it. I can't see this as anything but a trade deadline deal, however. No way the Suns do this before they absolutely have to.

I'd rather take a hobbled G-Nob into the p/o's than an athletic 4 who can't stop justin farmer. "Look at the place he's played" is a weak argument. You are what you are. There is nothing Pop is gonna teach that he hasn't be tailored for up to this point. Pop would be a fool to try to change anything and expect to be successful with him.

[Creation88]

anyone but Tim and Tony for CHRIS BOSH!!

[mountainballer]

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar'e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.

The Nets, Bulls, Heat and Pistons are said to be the front-runners for Stoudamire. The Spurs may be burning up the lines trying to find something that's going to work.

two aspects.
first: while you always have to listen or talk, if there is a chance to get a perennial All-Star for a 50cents on the dollar price, Amare doesn't seem like a good fit alongside Tim. he didn't work well alongside Shaq, and while people might point out that Tim isn't Shaq, there are still a lot of similarities what type of player is a good fit alongside both. (see Horry)
(this doesn't mean Amare isn't good enough. he has his flaws, but overall the guy is fantastic at some things. people shouldn't just see his scoring numbers, they should also look at his scoring efficiency. you don't find many players in the NBA history, who constantly delivered 1.50+ PPS seasons.)

from the mentioned team, Amare would also make some sense with the Bulls, but not as much as with the Heat.
so I can see why the Heat try to get him. if this works well, either Wade and Amare might be willing to sign long term extensions, I'm pretty sure Amare has Miami as one of his preferred destinations for summer 2010 anyhow. if it doesn't work, he will leave and the situation won't be much different for the Heat than it would have been without the trade.

what's the problem? if the Suns do such a trade, their priority will be to get under the threshold. therefore they need to dump about 5 million $. if they trade straight with Heat, this will be very difficult, because they will also only take back expirings. (it's not impossible though, but a 3 team deal is smarter in that case, also because of roster spot concerns)

why the Spurs?
they have multiple smaller expiring contracts, that would allow a scenario that helps either the Suns to immediately get under the threshold, as well as free the Heat from taking back log term contracts:
look at this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygsxbqf

why for the Heat: they get Amare, they clear additional cap space for 2010 and they get back a lot of talent for Beasley.

why for the Suns: they get a lot of talent back for Amare in Beasley (troubled, but Amare wasn't without baggage either), at much lower costs and (most important maybe) they dump 6 million in salary, which saves them: 3 million salary for the reminder of the season, 5 million in taxes AND get the the pay back from the league (will be pretty high this season, maybe 4 million).
overall financial impact for the Suns: about 12 million
(not even considering that Beasley has two more years on his rookie contract, what makes him a cheap solution for a starting PF)

why for the Spurs: they get 3 players, all have been on the Spurs radar at some point.
Haslem fills a huge need (front court defense, toughness, work horse attitude), even if he doesn't bring much size, he should still be a very good complimentary player for Tim. (see how well he did alongside Shaq 2006). and he has championship experience. he IS the player the Spurs hoped Dice will be. huge upgrade over Bonner anyhow.
Cook was a Spurs favorite 2007, he has a disaster year and is in a deep shooting slump, but Spurs might be willing to gamble on this. he is only 22 and Chip might be the cure he needs. (gives them also security for the case Manu leaves)
JJones. brings some perimeter defense, 3pt shooting and size (at SF).

overall the financial risk isn't that big for the Spurs, Haslem expires, Cook makes 2 million next season and JJone isn't fully guaranteed the next 2 years.
the upside is a big turn around.

[Creation88]

two aspects.
first: while you always have to listen or talk, if there is a chance to get a perennial All-Star for a 50cents on the dollar price, Amare doesn't seem like a good fit alongside Tim. he didn't work well alongside Shaq, and while people might point out that Tim isn't Shaq, there are still a lot of similarities what type of player is a good fit alongside both. (see Horry)
(this doesn't mean Amare isn't good enough. he has his flaws, but overall the guy is fantastic at some things. people shouldn't just see his scoring numbers, they should also look at his scoring efficiency. you don't find many players in the NBA history, who constantly delivered 1.50+ PPS seasons.)

from the mentioned team, Amare would also make some sense with the Bulls, but not as much as with the Heat.
so I can see why the Heat try to get him. if this works well, either Wade and Amare might be willing to sign long term extensions, I'm pretty sure Amare has Miami as one of his preferred destinations for summer 2010 anyhow. if it doesn't work, he will leave and the situation won't be much different for the Heat than it would have been without the trade.

what's the problem? if the Suns do such a trade, their priority will be to get under the threshold. therefore they need to dump about 5 million $. if they trade straight with Heat, this will be very difficult, because they will also only take back expirings. (it's not impossible though, but a 3 team deal is smarter in that case, also because of roster spot concerns)

why the Spurs?
they have multiple smaller expiring contracts, that would allow a scenario that helps either the Suns to immediately get under the threshold, as well as free the Heat from taking back log term contracts:
look at this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygsxbqf

why for the Heat: they get Amare, they clear additional cap space for 2010 and they get back a lot of talent for Beasley.

why for the Suns: they get a lot of talent back for Amare in Beasley (troubled, but Amare wasn't without baggage either), at much lower costs and (most important maybe) they dump 6 million in salary, which saves them: 3 million salary for the reminder of the season, 5 million in taxes AND get the the pay back from the league (will be pretty high this season, maybe 4 million).
overall financial impact for the Suns: about 12 million
(not even considering that Beasley has two more years on his rookie contract, what makes him a cheap solution for a starting PF)

why for the Spurs: they get 3 players, all have been on the Spurs radar at some point.
Haslem fills a huge need (front court defense, toughness, work horse attitude), even if he doesn't bring much size, he should still be a very good complimentary player for Tim. (see how well he did alongside Shaq 2006). and he has championship experience. he IS the player the Spurs hoped Dice will be. huge upgrade over Bonner anyhow.
Cook was a Spurs favorite 2007, he has a disaster year and is in a deep shooting slump, but Spurs might be willing to gamble on this. he is only 22 and Chip might be the cure he needs. (gives them also security for the case Manu leaves)
JJones. brings some perimeter defense, 3pt shooting and size (at SF).

overall the financial risk isn't that big for the Spurs, Haslem expires, Cook makes 2 million next season and JJone isn't fully guaranteed the next 2 years.
the upside is a big turn around.

lol no.

[Spurs Brazil]

Suns will not trade Amere to the Spurs but I'm happy to know the FO is looking for a trade

[Gooshie]

If in fact this rumor is true, I would hope the Spurs try to get Phx to include Grant Hill in the deal. He could be our replacement for Manu this year.

Amare + Grant Hill for Manu, Bonner, Mahinmi, Bogans, Splitter's rights, and picks works under the cap.

By the way, if this deal were to go down, there's no way Manu would suit up even a game for the Suns. I live in Phx, and the outcry would be at a record level if Manu ever played a game with the Suns. A buyout is more likely.

Would Manu pull a Bones Barry and come back? Or would he go to a team like the Cavs after his 30 days were up? My guess would be the latter.

[DBMethos]

lol no.

Adding Haslem and Cook while hanging onto Manu/Hill/Blair/Splitter's rights? I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Bruno]

Something important in a trade for Stoudamire is the luxury tax situation of Phoenix. Suns are $5M above the tax. If you can pull a trade that push them just below the luxury tax threshold, Suns will save $2M in salary + $5M in tax + $4M in luxury tax redistribution. That's $11M saved for this year.

You can imagine a trade like that:

Spurs:
out: Ginobili, Blair, Mahinmi, Ratliff, 2010 1st round pick, $500K
in: Stoudamire, Jarron Collins

Suns:
out: Stoudamire, Jarron Collins
in: Ginobili, Blair, 2010 first round pick
After the trade, Suns are about $500K below the tax.

Nets:
out: nothing
in: Mahinmi
Nets get a young player to try for the rest of the season.

Pistons:
out: nothing
in: Ratliff, $500K
The cash is enough to pay Ratliff salary and to give a little incentive for Pistons to do this trade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzyu2kp

[benefactor]

Jefferson+Splitter+First round pick for Amare. Plus throw in Grant Hill for Finley.
:tu

[DJ Mbenga]

sons, please bring in this idiot. that will just make it easier for me to score in garbage time

[Buddy Holly]

Something important in a trade for Stoudamire is the luxury tax situation of Phoenix. Suns are $5M above the tax. If you can pull a trade that push them just below the luxury tax threshold, Suns will save $2M in salary + $5M in tax + $4M in luxury tax redistribution. That's $11M saved for this year.

You can imagine a trade like that:

Spurs:
out: Ginobili, Blair, Mahinmi, Ratliff, 2010 1st round pick, $500K
in: Stoudamire, Jarron Collins

Suns:
out: Stoudamire, Jarron Collins
in: Ginobili, Blair, 2010 first round pick
After the trade, Suns are about $500K below the tax.

Nets:
out: nothing
in: Mahinmi
Nets get a young player to try for the rest of the season.

Pistons:
out: nothing
in: Ratliff, $500K
The cash is enough to pay Ratliff salary and to give a little incentive for Pistons to do this trade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzyu2kp

Blair. No.

[DBMethos]

The thought of Blair beasting in a Suns uni is mouth-vomit inducing.

[5in10]

unbelievable. simply unf-ingbelievable.

this may be my first post, but only because i am now so disgusted that i can no longer stomach my own silence.

i have loved the spurs more than anything else in the world (just ask my girlfriend), for as long as i can remember, but now it seems that they are destroying everything they have stood for.

i sincerely believe that our success has come because of patience, hard work, discipline, LOYALTY, and the restraint to NOT act like the GD lakers and just buy up big names to try to win now. i understand that we owe timmy more than we can ever repay, but not at the expense of the kind of philosophy that he has supported , and to some extent been the inspiration for, all these wonderful years.

if manu felt (no pun intended) spurned by the fact that the front office wasn't willing to offer an extension when he was injured, it's only because he had every right to feel that way. who can blame him? he has laid his entire heart and soul into every game he's ever played for us, and been the fuel AND fire that got us through countless tough calls in crunch time. he, and i, thought that actually meant something to the organization and fans. our bad, i guess.

to read that we would even consider trading him for the likes of amare - oops, i mean amar'e - made my stomach turn. and now, for someone who claims to be a spurs fan to ask if we could "technically cut him"?!?!?!?

what has become of us... :depressed

lol chill! I meant the suns cutting him so he could come back to the spurs...even if it is far fetched. though it would allow for the suns to tank and try and get a decent lottery pick...fool!

[Bruno]

While I often agree with you, mountainballer, I don't get at all your obsession with James Jones.

He has been really bad lately and his contract is damn ugly. I would like to see Spurs getting Haslem but if the price is to take James Jones contract, hell no.

[BacktoBasics]

If they're looking at a 3 way with the Bulls I'd suspect Brad Miller would be someone the Spurs would be interested in. Don't know his contract situation though.

[LOL@MavsFan]

No D, no thx

[benefactor]

If they're looking at a 3 way with the Bulls I'd suspect Brad Miller would be someone the Spurs would be interested in. Don't know his contract situation though.
12.2 million expiring.

[Bruno]

All this is mute if Rasheed wouldn't have gone to the dame C's.


I find the parallelism between Rasheed Wallace and Antoine Walker quite fascinating. They were both incredibly talented bigmen and have turned into fat player who jack up 3's.

I even wonder if Sheed signed with Cletics just to follow Toine footsteps.

[mountainballer]

While I often agree with you, mountainballer, I don't get at all your obsession with James Jones.

He has been really bad lately and his contract is damn ugly. I would like to see Spurs getting Haslem but if the price is to take James Jones contract, hell no.

obsession? well maybe.
I know he wasn't great and yes, he is overpayed.
I saw him as the door opener to my 3 teams scenario.
he wasn't good, also because he didn't play. (not totally his fault, Heat are pretty overloaded at SF with Q-Rich, D-Wright, Beasley also playing the 3).
maybe I'm totally wrong, but I still see the Portland 2007-08 JJones, when I thought he is exactly what the Spurs need. (playing his role smart and effective, hit the 3 at fantastic rate, especially the corner 3, playing really good defense from 2 to 4)
of course my dream is, that THIS JJones shows up in SA.

[slayermin]

If they are considering this, might as well go for broke.

Manu and TP for Amare and Nash

[lurker23]

Finally got through reading the thread. Was hoping for more articles with more details, but not surprised that this has gotten to 12 pages with only one rumor (albeit a legitimate rumor from a good writer).

I tend to agree with what seems to be the majority in this thread. If it's RJ + Splitter + first round pick, I do it in a heartbeat. If it includes Manu, it makes it much, much harder. Yes, Manu isn't the player he once was, and history says that he probably never will be. However, he's still a guy who can average 12-16 ppg, is probably one of the top 10 passers in the league, and plays with more heart than 95% of NBA players. On his last legs or not, guys like that don't come along every day, especially one who creates an atmosphere of mutual love and respect like he has with the city of San Antonio. I'm sorry, I know some of you will say that I'm thinking more with my heart than with my head, but to me, it's just not worth it.

[DaBears]

What I do wonder is how many posters would disappear from here when Manu is a Spur no longer. Church of Manu is strong indeed.

Im a lifer i dont care whom is in the jerseys as long as SA has a team i will continue to support them...

[Flux451]

RJ + fillers for STAD, call up Hairston

[duncan228]

Amare a Spur? Not so fast (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2010/01/amare-a-spur-no.html)
By Mike Monroe

While Spurs president of basketball operations Gregg Popovich acknowledges that every NBA team discusses nearly every potentially tradeable player, this is what we know to be true this morning: There has been zero conversation between the Spurs and the Suns about any trade that would bring All-Star center Amare Stoudemire to San Antonio.

A report on the Yahoo! Sports Web site that the Spurs front office had "researched and debated pursuing Stoudemire to play alongside Tim Duncan" created an Internet buzz, but the two teams have not had even a preliminary talk about a deal.

NBA sources say Stoudemire's agent, Happy Walters, has been doing his best to create leverage for his client. Meanwhile, the Suns welcome every rumored new suitor for an All-Star who has a player option to become a free agent this summer.

Yahoo! Sports NBA columnist Adrian Wojnarowski speculated that the Spurs would have to offer Manu Ginobili, and his expiring $10.8 million contract, to the Suns as part of a package to get Stoudemire.

The NBA's trade deadline is Feb. 18. In a general conversation about possible moves, Popovich said the Spurs discuss and consider everything they believe might help the team improve.

"There are phone calls going back and forth every day between 30 teams," Popovich said. "Anybody who tells you differently is lying to you. That's your job: Put together the best team you possibly can. Nobody is going to just sit there and not make any calls about anything. That's going on constantly. The chances of something happening are pretty slim, but everybody is always trying to improve their team. That's just part of the business. Everybody. Thirty teams are doing that."

As always is the case, Spurs general manager R.C. Buford offered no comment.

[Bruno]

Spurs could also technically get Stoudamire without trading Manu or RJ.

It will take 7 players (Blair, Finley, Mahinmi, Mason, Bonner, Bogans and Ratliff) to match salaries. Aside of Blair it isn't sexy so Splitter and first round picks should be added. And of course a 7 for 1 trade will never happen so it would a multiple teams trade with minimum salary players coming back to SA

[lurker23]

Nothing to see here, typical CIA. Honestly, I believe Woj more than I believe Pop's public statements in matters like this.

[timvp]

The chances of something happening are pretty slim


The longer we suck, the higher the chances are of a trade

[Big P]

I'm pretty sure the Suns are not going to be trading Amare to the Spurs...its a nice thought as long as it was RJ & not Manu going to the Suns...nice to see the FO is being proactive on the trade front.

[Chomag]

HAHA exactly what I was thinking when Pop said "chances of something happening are slim" IF he said the "this is what we are going with" speech it would be very different.

[timvp]

Something important in a trade for Stoudamire is the luxury tax situation of Phoenix. Suns are $5M above the tax. If you can pull a trade that push them just below the luxury tax threshold, Suns will save $2M in salary + $5M in tax + $4M in luxury tax redistribution. That's $11M saved for this year.

You can imagine a trade like that:

Spurs:
out: Ginobili, Blair, Mahinmi, Ratliff, 2010 1st round pick, $500K
in: Stoudamire, Jarron Collins

Suns:
out: Stoudamire, Jarron Collins
in: Ginobili, Blair, 2010 first round pick
After the trade, Suns are about $500K below the tax.

Nets:
out: nothing
in: Mahinmi
Nets get a young player to try for the rest of the season.

Pistons:
out: nothing
in: Ratliff, $500K
The cash is enough to pay Ratliff salary and to give a little incentive for Pistons to do this trade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzyu2kp

Great post :tu

I would be against Manu, Blair and a first round pick for Amare, especially since I think Amare would be a half season rental. I'd consider the Amare situation like the Drew Gooden situation on steroids. I really doubt the Spurs would give Amare a long-term deal. The only way they would is if they believe that Parker/RJ/Amare is a championship level core after TD retires and I don't think they do. Plus, it'd probably take a whole lot of money to even get to that point to find out.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm firmly convinced that this year's version of the Spurs FO is going to try to make a deal in the coming weeks. Standing pat does not define this season's philosophy, so in light of that I hope they continue to pursue assembling the best team possible.

However, I'd be shocked if the brass in PHX do anything that they remotely think would help us. The Spurs are like Darth Vadar to their Rebel forces. You don't hand Darth one of your most powerful light sabers, even if it's too expensive for you to make the payments on.

Common sense tells me this trade would never happen unless it's part of a three-way/four-way/5-way trade with other teams where Amare doesn't set foot on our soil.

[Blackjack]

Thinking Clearer About Amare
by Andrew A. McNeil

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/duncan_stoudemire2.jpg

We’ve all had time to digest the rumor of the Spurs trading for Amare Stoudemire (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/01/27/are-the-spurs-trying-to-trade-for-amare-stoudemire/). And I’d like to think that after mulling it over, we’d have to agree it’s highly unlikely.

More likely, as commenter krista tipped us to, is the Spurs acting as a third team in an Amare Stoudemire deal, where they would not receive Stoudemire but act as a facilitator in the deal. WOAI’s Don Harris has something (http://www.woai.com/content/blogs/don/story/Spurs-may-be-involved-in-Amare-Stoudemire-trade/78FLIYcIE0agwBtnSig6hw.cspx):

Keep reading → (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/01/27/thinking-clearer-about-amare/)

Now that sounds a little more like the Spurs..

[EricB]

Mahinmi and bonner for tyrus Thomas? Sure. Although I haven't heard good things about Thomas...

[cd98]

Manu had surgery and tends to miss the last half of the season with injuries.



Who's to say Amare won't be a better defender with the Spurs and along side Duncan?



Couldn't you say the same for Manu along side Duncan and Parker? We're really not contenders with Manu now and if we're not contenders with Amare then we lose nothing but we have a lot to gain with Amare if it works out.

Yes Manu is habitually injured and he is clearly not the same player, although he is still a very good player and an asset to any team.

The difference is that Manu already knows the system. The Spurs have spent half the season trying to figure out how to make all the new faces work and they still haven't figured it out. Bringing in Amare, who has more than just injuries (locker room issues with teammates for example) is not what we need when we are in win now.

This team needs a few defensive stoppers. Defensive stoppers come cheaper than offensive talents. We should be able to address those needs without giving up our core scorers, which are good enough to win a championship.

Offense is not the problem. Defense is. Amare helps with offense (which we don't need). He will not make this team better, only different. And different is not what we need at this point in the season.

[cd98]

I just cant imagine Manu aside with steve Nash, i dont know feels like manu gonna prove us wrong and become an AllStar next year.


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H4ssq4jD3_Q/0.jpg

That would be the best passing backcourt in the NBA and a complete joy to watch.

[Pero]

However, I'd be shocked if the brass in PHX do anything that they remotely think would help us. The Spurs are like Darth Vadar to their Rebel forces. You don't hand Darth one of your most powerful light sabers, even if it's too expensive for you to make the payments on.


So basically you're saying the Suns will win in the end? :D

[EricB]

Amare as a weak side defender could work. In 2008 with shaq next to him amare's D was pretty damn good and he supported on the weakside very well.

[DesignatedT]

people need to realize that manu is seriously thinking about signing elsewhere after this season. The spurs would not even think about getting rid of him unless they had serious doubts that if they were to offer a deal he would reject. In recent statements Manu doesnt seem like he even wants to be here after this season.

If he ends up being a F.A and walking, he then fucks the spurs royaly.. because with us still being over the cap, we can do nothing with that money we had with manu. what will manu fans say then?

I love manu but if he is seriously thinking about pulling something like that, we might as well LOOK at what we can get for him.

[DesignatedT]

tyrus thomas would be nice.

[cd98]

"One scenario of the Spurs acting as the third team in an Amare trade (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykmf7p7) would see the Spurs receive Tyrus Thomas of the Chicago Bulls and send Matt Bonner and Ian Mahinmi to the Suns. Phoenix would send Stoudemire to Chicago."

THIS I LIKE.

[cd98]

"As you can tell from the comments on the previous post about the Stoudemire rumor (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/01/27/are-the-spurs-trying-to-trade-for-amare-stoudemire/#comments), a lot of Spurs fans do not hold affectionate feelings for the Suns power forward.
But how do you think the Suns fans feel about Manu Ginobili?"

Suns fans would love Ginoboli. Manu in that system would be a joy to watch.

[EricB]

Manu wouldn't last in that system. Although the doctors in Phoenix I'm convinced are using black magic healing powers with guys like grant hill...

[Libri]

I was thinking that maybe the Suns would want an expiring contract and Jefferson. They then would convince RJ to opt out of his final year and then resign him long term for about 10 million a year. That would bring them further under the cap to pursue a free agent in 2010 but it's just not enough to make this deal work.

[cd98]

People thought Steve Nash wasn't worth the money, but that system made him a two-time MVP. It favors passers and shooters, which describes Manu's game. Half court games are just as grueling on the body as run N' gun.

[doobs]

If the Spurs don't trade Manu, I bet they extend him after the trade deadline.

I would trade RJ for Amare, but not Manu.

[DesignatedT]

unfortunately i dont see manu having much left in the tank past next year. if you guys want to give him 3 more years worth 30 mil ( which he will be asking for )... do you really think he can hold up. ???????? i mean seriously. i love manu but c'mon

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

So basically you're saying the Suns will win in the end? :D


:lol

I hope not.

[urunobili]

:vomit::vomit::vomit:

a Kaman like player is what we need... Not Amare... things are shaping in such way that if Manu is gone for Amare... he may accept a buyout but I highly doubt he'd come back to the Spurs... Celtics, Cavs and the Lakers would be the best suitors for him... heck even Orlando or Atlanta... :wakeup

[in2deep]

love Tyrus Thomas. Dude looks like he's bunjee jumping when ppl try to score in his basket.

Do it!

[Spursfanfromafar]

Here's something that the Suns should not resist -

Spurs
Out- Trade RJ to Clips, Blair to Suns, Tiago's rights to Suns, 2010 first round pick.
In - Amar'e from Suns, Ricky Davis from Clips (I know he is a plague, but this is his contract year and I remember Glen Robinson "played" for us not long back).

Suns
Out- Amar'e to Spurs
In - Blair from Spurs, Camby from Clips, Tiago Rights, Get under the cap.

Clips
Out - Camby to Suns, Davis to Spurs
In - RJ, 2010 First Round Pick of Spurs

Nets
Out - None
In - Mahinmi

ESPN Trade link - here (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylc8pp5)

Would the Clips say no? They got Kaman locked at 5, Griffin at 4, and a good 82 game player in RJ along with Baron Davis and Eric Gordon for next season. No free agent is coming to the Clips next season and RJ is as good as they can get if they get him rightaway. Heck, he even helps them in this year's playoff run ambitions... FWIW.

Spurs squad after trade -

Parker/Hill
Ginobili/Mason/Hairston
Bogans/Finley/Davis
Stoudemire/McDyess/Bonner
Duncan/Ratliff

[EricB]

Where's the puke icon for Ricky Davis... Yuck.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Where's the puke icon for Ricky Davis... Yuck.

I know ..The alternative is Telfair.. :(

[LOL@MavsFan]

Stephon Marbury thinks Ricky Davis is a cancer

[ulosturedge]

I'm sorry but Stoudemire is not the answer to our problems. That dude does not play any defense. And if we have learned anything it's you can't get a player who has already been molded into a certain type of player to change his style of play(see RJ, Haslip, ect.). Yeah if we want a chance at winning this year some type of move has to be made, but this isn't it. We would be better off waiting for next year and getting Tiago Splitter in a Spurs uniform. The Spurs better pull out all the stops on that one. That is my only glimmer of hope of keeping the championship window open.

[The Truth #6]

Tyrus Thomas isn't an answer either when realistically considering that we're the Spurs and Pop is the coach. Pop would play him 5 games and then sit him. How would Thomas fit in where other BBIQ-challenged big men have failed?

It's like the Gooden situation all over again, except Thomas has less fundamentals.

More importantly, if we want a super athletic big man why not...I don't know...just play Ian. He's already paid for. He actually plays defense unlike Amare (and most likely Thomas) and most importantly, he knows the impossible to learn defensive schemes already. No way Amare or Thomas can learn them in time for the playoffs.

I don't mind a big trade but it should at least make some sense.

If we want to split up the Big 3, then I think trading Parker makes way more sense. We could get a lot more options in return. And though his health isn't perfect this year, no one thinks he can't return to last year's level.

Besides, the fanbase will revolt if Manu is shipped out for a half-season rental and it doesn't work out.

[cd98]

Amare had microfacture knee surgury. Microfacture surgury used to mean retirement. Some have returned to the game, but none can play like they did before. Imagine Amare without the freakish athletic skills.

No thanks.

[Josepatches_]

Yes,Manu can leave us this summer.What about Parker? Is he going to re-sign here next summer? If we aren't stupid we can't paid him more because he will be at 30 so he's not going to be better when his better talent is quickness and speed.

If we are ready to make a big trade it would think in the next summer.Free all the money we can to go for Chris Bosh or someone better.

When we talk about Amare we have to think that he's not good enough to lead this team to the championship,same Parker,same RJ,of course same Manu..... We can't have 3-4 players with an all star player's contract in the same team if they arent enough good together to bring back the tittle.

Too much money.That's what happen this year and what is going to happen the next years with that kind of trades.

TP/RJ/Amare/TD = TP/RJ/Manu/Duncan = second round at best

I will put RJ+Manu or Parker in any trade.Only to free money.Right now we need a Superstar,not a nearly all-star.




This is the only way I would be happy with Amare here and it's not going to happen:
If we are going to trade for Amare then I will try to bring here Nash too.Last dance for him and Tim this year while they still playing very good and we will have to rebuild from the draft or the free agent market in 2 years.

Parker+RJ+Dice for Nash+Amare

Nash
Manu
Amare
TD
And we need to add a SF who can hit 3s.Not defense and a lot of fun but maybe not enought to win anyway.Of course Pop never would play that basketball so fire him too.

[xtremesteven33]

Tyrus Thomas isn't an answer either when realistically considering that we're the Spurs and Pop is the coach. Pop would play him 5 games and then sit him. How would Thomas fit in where other BBIQ-challenged big men have failed?

It's like the Gooden situation all over again, except Thomas has less fundamentals.

More importantly, if we want a super athletic big man why not...I don't know...just play Ian. He's already paid for. He actually plays defense unlike Amare (and most likely Thomas) and most importantly, he knows the impossible to learn defensive schemes already. No way Amare or Thomas can learn them in time for the playoffs.

I don't mind a big trade but it should at least make some sense.

If we want to split up the Big 3, then I think trading Parker makes way more sense. We could get a lot more options in return. And though his health isn't perfect this year, no one thinks he can't return to last year's level.

Besides, the fanbase will revolt if Manu is shipped out for a half-season rental and it doesn't work out.


I agree.

I think we should trade with the Wizards. Get Butler and Haywood. Butler is quick off the drible and off of screens. He is also a good solid rebounder at the SF position. Also a good playmaker. Haywood is a big ass C who I know would help out the Spurs right away.

[anonoftheinternets]

Nash
Manu
Amare
TD


lol just trade manu and TD to suns instead .... same team ....

[xtremesteven33]

Hill
Ginobili
Butler
Duncan
Haywood

[HarlemHeat37]

We aren't trading Tony Parker..enough with that..

[xtremesteven33]

We aren't trading Tony Parker..enough with that..


Im just sayin...

[The Truth #6]

Hill
Ginobili
Butler
Duncan
Haywood

Can we get a 1st round draft pick too? I wonder if we could get more for Parker?

[The Truth #6]

We aren't trading Tony Parker..enough with that..

But we are trading Manu?

How is Tony going to mesh with Amare? Probably not great.

How is Manu acceptable and Parker not? Tell me what you're thinking.

[HarlemHeat37]

But we are trading Manu?

How is Tony going to mesh with Amare? Probably not great.

How is Manu acceptable and Parker not? Tell me what you're thinking.

I'm not in favor of trading Amare for Manu at all..I said I would only want Amare if the deal involves RJ or the expirings in some sort of way..I also don't believe these rumors mean anything, they're just rumors..

I can't really think of any realistic deals that would involve Manu or Parker that I would like..

[FlAVaK]

But we are trading Manu?


Post #202

"Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him."

This thread should have ended back there...

[Buddy Holly]

Amare had microfacture knee surgury. Microfacture surgury used to mean retirement. Some have returned to the game, but none can play like they did before. Imagine Amare without the freakish athletic skills.

No thanks.

How long ago did he have that surgery? Dude is still a freak athletically today.

[SenorSpur]

Tyrus Thomas isn't an answer either when realistically considering that we're the Spurs and Pop is the coach. Pop would play him 5 games and then sit him. How would Thomas fit in where other BBIQ-challenged big men have failed?

It's like the Gooden situation all over again, except Thomas has less fundamentals.

More importantly, if we want a super athletic big man why not...I don't know...just play Ian. He's already paid for. He actually plays defense unlike Amare (and most likely Thomas) and most importantly, he knows the impossible to learn defensive schemes already. No way Amare or Thomas can learn them in time for the playoffs.

I don't mind a big trade but it should at least make some sense.

There. Somebody finally said it. The Spurs are sniffing around for an athletic big to play next to Duncan and have forgotten that they already have one on the roster. No one is suggesting for a minute that Ian = Amare. Quite the contrary. However, he could provide rebounding, defense and shotblocking. And his face-up jumper from about 10-12 ft looked very promising.

Playing him makes more sense that a 1/2 season rental of another guy, who's an obvious bad fit for the team.

[lefty]

No thanks

Nothing against Amare (well, except his D), but Duncan has good support fron Blair and Co

[crc21209]

"One scenario of the Spurs acting as the third team in an Amare trade (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykmf7p7) would see the Spurs receive Tyrus Thomas of the Chicago Bulls and send Matt Bonner and Ian Mahinmi to the Suns. Phoenix would send Stoudemire to Chicago."

THIS I LIKE.

I like the sound of this better than trading Manu for Stoudemire :tu. Tyrus Thomas is a pretty good athletic guy who can block shots...

[dbestpro]

There. Somebody finally said it. The Spurs are sniffing around for an athletic big to play next to Duncan and have forgotten that they already have one on the roster. No one is suggesting for a minute that Ian = Amare. Quite the contrary. However, he could provide rebounding, defense and shotblocking. And his face-up jumper from about 10-12 ft looked very promising.

Playing him makes more sense that a 1/2 season rental of another guy, who's an obvious bad fit for the team.

To admit Ian could be part of the answer is to admit the FO may have made one of the biggest blunders in recent Spurs history by not picking up his option. This, the FO (includes Pop) will not allow to happen.

[Buddy Holly]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg9cahx

Parker
Hill
Jefferson
Duncan
Haywood

Jamison off the bench.

[crc21209]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg9cahx

Parker
Hill
Jefferson
Duncan
Haywood

Jamison off the bench.

Sounds good to me :tu

[The Truth #6]

The only way we trade Parker is if it is for a much better player. Like Chris Paul. I doubt TP would want to leave San Antonio, and he has shown it by building a house you can see from space.

Antonio Daniels has a house that was the biggest in town. I don't think size of house is a great indicator for a Spur except that it will be a great retirement home at some point.

Parker wants to play for a winner. He's not sticking around after this things get ugly.

[HarlemHeat37]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg9cahx

Parker
Hill
Jefferson
Duncan
Haywood

Jamison off the bench.

Cleveland and Washington are in serious talks about trading Jamison for Big Z's huge contract, JJ Hickson AND a 1st round pick..

So Cleveland can offer them a better deal without having to give up Haywood..

I just hope the Spurs keep it simple and just do all they can to get Haywood..you wouldn't have to give up Manu or RJ, you would just have to offer either expirings + Splitter and/or a 1st round pick, or take back Blatche's contract in some kind of deal, possibly with a 3rd/4th teams involved..

[rayray2k8]

Fuck I hate the espn trade machine.. That just tells me that some people have too much time on their hands..

[dbestpro]

Finley, RMJ, and Stoudamire to Chicago.
Miller, Bonner, and Mahinmi to Phx.
Salmons, Pargo, and Thomas to San Antonio.

Mahinmi to NJ for cash from Phx.

[Buddy Holly]

Antonio Daniels has a house that was the biggest in town. I don't think size of house is a great indicator for a Spur except that it will be a great retirement home at some point.

Antonio's house in SA while with the Spurs wasn't even close to being the biggest in SA, it was a modest McMansion type home. He was building his current 10,000 sq. ft. home when he was traded. His current home isn't the biggest in SA either.

[Buddy Holly]

Cleveland and Washington are in serious talks about trading Jamison for Big Z's huge contract, JJ Hickson AND a 1st round pick..

So Cleveland can offer them a better deal without having to give up Haywood..

I just hope the Spurs keep it simple and just do all they can to get Haywood..you wouldn't have to give up Manu or RJ, you would just have to offer either expirings + Splitter and/or a 1st round pick, or take back Blatche's contract in some kind of deal, possibly with a 3rd/4th teams involved..

I would think Manu plus maybe Splitters rights would >> what cleveland is offering.

[cd98]

Tyrus Thomas isn't an answer either when realistically considering that we're the Spurs and Pop is the coach. Pop would play him 5 games and then sit him. How would Thomas fit in where other BBIQ-challenged big men have failed?

It's like the Gooden situation all over again, except Thomas has less fundamentals.

More importantly, if we want a super athletic big man why not...I don't know...just play Ian. He's already paid for. He actually plays defense unlike Amare (and most likely Thomas) and most importantly, he knows the impossible to learn defensive schemes already. No way Amare or Thomas can learn them in time for the playoffs.

I don't mind a big trade but it should at least make some sense.

If we want to split up the Big 3, then I think trading Parker makes way more sense. We could get a lot more options in return. And though his health isn't perfect this year, no one thinks he can't return to last year's level.

Besides, the fanbase will revolt if Manu is shipped out for a half-season rental and it doesn't work out.

Thoms is way better than Ian. No comparison. He is an athletic power forward that blocks shots. He did pretty good in the playoffs last year. I'm not a huge fan of his game, but I think he is a worthy gamble of Ian and Bonner.

At worst, he does nothing and we are back where we started sans the trade Bonner threads. At best, he actually contributes to our aging front line.

We still need someone to hound wing and guard scorers. Hill is getting in the mold, but we need to add someone else as well.

[wildbill2u]

Here ya go Sarver, I just saved you $2,178,325 and RJ gets to play in his home state.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjgkeyq

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/usaidwhat/sarversdeal.jpg?t=1264573711

So it hurts the Suns except for about 2 million in payroll. Works for me.

[cd98]

I don't think the Bulls trade for Amare works. But the Spurs would be wise to get Thomas for so little (Bonner and Ian).

In the playoffs last year against Boston, he played solid scoring in double figures twice and blocking 13 shots in the series. That's the type of defense we need.

[Agloco]

Here ya go Sarver, I just saved you $2,178,325 and RJ gets to play in his home state.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjgkeyq

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/usaidwhat/sarversdeal.jpg?t=1264573711

I'm thinking that Sarver would want a big thrown in as well, possibly Bonner. Mebbe Ian or Splitter's rights work as well.

[Xylus]

The Suns are considering trading Amare to the Spurs as much as they're considering trading Nash to the Mavs or Lakers.

[Creation88]

giving Jefferson AND Bonner for Amare would be a major win.

[rayray2k8]

The Suns are considering trading Amare to the Spurs as much as they're considering trading Nash to the Mavs or Lakers.

:lol
So you're tell me that theres a chance!

[Xylus]

The three things the Suns want in a trade involving Stoudemire: Expiring contracts, youth, and high draft picks. Unfortunately, the Spurs don't have much in the way of youth (we don't need Hill, and I don't see the Spurs parting with Blair), and the Spurs won't be drafting high anytime soon. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.

[Creation88]

Jefferson for Bosh works. :downspin:

[Xylus]

giving Jefferson AND Bonner for Amare would be a major win.

You might as well fuck Kerr's wife while you're at it.

[Creation88]

You might as well fuck Kerr's wife while you're at it.

already did.

[Fpoonsie]

The Suns are considering trading Amare to the Spurs as much as they're considering trading Nash to the Mavs or Lakers.

:lol

Probably this.

[murpjf88]

The three things the Suns want in a trade involving Stoudemire: Expiring contracts, youth, and high draft picks. Unfortunately, the Spurs don't have much in the way of youth (we don't need Hill, and I don't see the Spurs parting with Blair), and the Spurs won't be drafting high anytime soon. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.

Who wouldn't want Ian and his aggressiveness. All he needs is a chance to play. They have Splitter overseas that they could throw in a package.

[DJB]

You wanna know why this trade will never happen? Because it's getting media attention before anyone has even spoken of anything. Everyone knows the Spurs are only serious about trades/acquistions when no one knows anything. Just like the RJ trade, and signing McDyess.

If anything is going to happen, none of us will ever know before the ball is actually dropped.
:depressed

[Buddy Holly]

Everyone knows the Spurs are only serious about trades/acquistions when no one knows anything. Just like the RJ trade, and signing McDyess.

The Spurs were in trade rumors for Jefferson during last seasons trade deadline so it wasn't a big surprise that they traded for him.

Also, it was well known the Spurs have wanted Dice for a few years now.


If anything is going to happen, none of us will ever know before the ball is actually dropped.
:depressed

Not really.

[baseline bum]

You might as well fuck Kerr's wife while you're at it.

and his daughters

[Marcus Bryant]

Manu for him? eh. I mean. Well....nah.

Outside of that, well, sure. But just like Jefferson looked good on paper...

[Marcus Bryant]

Jefferson's contract means the Spurs would be selling a $8 mil a year talent for $15. Won't be many takers.

[Marcus Bryant]

And we think the D sucks now...

[Marcus Bryant]

Can we trade for health?

[Blackjack]

How 'bout the Suns' training staff?

[TJastal]

and his daughters

Was that really a necessary comment?

[Allanon]

Y'all have to look at the team and ask if this team is good enough as currently constructed.

Manu's the most valuable trade piece because of his expiring and his talent.

Due to RJ's cap straining contract, the Spurs are very near the CAP even before re-signing Manu. So the Spurs are stuck with

1) Manu re-signs
2) A trade involving Manu
3) Manu walking to another team as a FA

Outside of those 3; any other impact trade scenario is highly unlikely.

I can understand you don't want to part with Manu.

But are you cool riding with the Spurs as currently constructed this year AND next year?

[21_Blessings]

Manu for him? eh. I mean. Well....nah.

Outside of that, well, sure. But just like Jefferson looked good on paper...

Would be a non-issue if the Spurs still had Scola :lol

[Agloco]

I can understand you don't want to part with Manu.

But are you cool riding with the Spurs as currently constructed this year AND next year?

Thanks for shitting all over the liquor bar.......:lol

But you're absolutely right unfortunately. It's Manu saddling up or nothing. We've got nothing anyone wants besides him (for a major piece that is).

[Agloco]

Would be a non-issue if the Spurs still had Scola :lol

Isn't he a UFA next year?

[The Truth #6]

Antonio's house in SA while with the Spurs wasn't even close to being the biggest in SA, it was a modest McMansion type home. He was building his current 10,000 sq. ft. home when he was traded. His current home isn't the biggest in SA either.

Correction noted. So you're saying his house is small.

[DPG21920]

I highly doubt any significant trade happens. I think the most likely trades are salary dumps. I know that does not coincide with the seemingly new FO logic, but that is what my gut tells me.

With regards to Xylus, he overrates Amare's trade value. No one is going to give up a ton to get a rental. Like Bruno said, if they are done with Amare, some expirings plus a good young piece should be enough because if they get under the cap it is an 11M dollar swing, plus they get to rebuild with the young piece.

If the Spurs could negotiate an extension with Amare, sure you try and make this deal, but I doubt it. The Spurs, if they gave up Manu, would be sorely lacking play makers on the perimeter.

[Allanon]

Thanks for shitting all over the liquor bar.......:lol

But you're absolutely right unfortunately. It's Manu saddling up or nothing. We've got nothing anyone wants besides him (for a major piece that is).

Sorry man.

On a lighter note, superb 1st picture in your sig...unreal :toast

[The Truth #6]

Thoms is way better than Ian. No comparison. He is an athletic power forward that blocks shots. He did pretty good in the playoffs last year. I'm not a huge fan of his game, but I think he is a worthy gamble of Ian and Bonner.

At worst, he does nothing and we are back where we started sans the trade Bonner threads. At best, he actually contributes to our aging front line.

We still need someone to hound wing and guard scorers. Hill is getting in the mold, but we need to add someone else as well.

Thomas is way better than Ian..is that comparison based on all the minutes we've actually seen Ian play in the NBA? Not sure how to say for sure since Ian has never had an opportunity. They're both athletic unproven tall players. Sounds like they would fill the same need. It seems crazy to trade for Thomas before actually seeing what we have with Ian. Ian already knows the defense and seems like a solid person. Thomas woul not learn the system in time and seems like a problem player c

[xellos88330]

My main concern about this is, how will he react without Nash being able to give him the ball.

[cd98]

Thomas is way better than Ian..is that comparison based on all the minutes we've actually seen Ian play in the NBA? Not sure how to say for sure since Ian has never had an opportunity. They're both athletic unproven tall players. Sounds like they would fill the same need. It seems crazy to trade for Thomas before actually seeing what we have with Ian. Ian already knows the defense and seems like a solid person. Thomas woul not learn the system in time and seems like a problem player c

I base it on the several times in summer league that he has played and shown himself to be foul prone and a player with no post game.

Thomas did his damage on the big stage: NBA playoffs against the defending champion Celtics. I think Thomas has way more upside than he is currently showing. Ian, I just don't think he is near as talented. Sure I haven't seen him play big minutes, but there's a reason for that.

[The Truth #6]

So what's the reason? Pop is infallible?

[The Truth #6]

Pop didn't even want to play Blair.

[Phenomanul]

What we need is for Houston to continue their own losing streak. If that happens, they might be willing to make a trade to help shore up the height of their front line for next year. At that point a Scola + Splitter reunion might seem enticing to them, Splitter being a legit seven footer to back up a broken down Yao.

Finley (or Bonner) + rights to Splitter for Shane Battier

That's a trade that would help both parties....

[yavozerb]

What we need is for Houston to continue their own losing streak. If that happens, they might be willing to make a trade to help shore up the height of their front line for next year. At that point a Scola + Splitter reunion might seem enticing to them, Splitter being a legit seven footer to back up a broken down Yao.

Finley (or Bonner) + rights to Splitter for Shane Battier

That's a trade that would help both parties....

Wow, Lets give the rockets a starting future center to go with scola for battier who is overpaid. Great plan

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

amare could suck pretty bad w/o a good pass-first point guard (hint hint nash), that said, i don't see him a good fit in SA.

[Xylus]

With regards to Xylus, he overrates Amare's trade value. No one is going to give up a ton to get a rental. Like Bruno said, if they are done with Amare, some expirings plus a good young piece should be enough because if they get under the cap it is an 11M dollar swing, plus they get to rebuild with the young piece.

I don't think I'm overrating his trade value by saying that the Spurs don't really have what the Suns are looking for, besides the fact that the Suns would never trade a player of Amare's caliber to a Western Conference rival.

Also, I don't think I'm overrating his trade value by saying he's a very large improvement over Yi Jianlian. I mean, seriously. Amare generally averages 21 and 9 while shooting 55%. Compare that to tissue-soft Yi, who averages 15 and 7 on 42% shooting, while playing the same minutes. It's laughable to even compare the two players. Regardless of what general Spurfan bias might dictate, Yi is a worse defender than Amare Stoudemire.
The Suns' primary weakness on the defensive end these past couple of years has been on the perimeter. Nash and JRich can't defend worth a shit, and Grant Hill is too old.

[Xylus]

amare could suck pretty bad w/o a good pass-first point guard (hint hint nash), that said, i don't see him a good fit in SA.

Amare has averaged over 20 points his entire career (save for his rookie year), with or without Nash. His shooting percentage went up after Nash arrived, which is to be expected.

These days, Gentry runs a lot of isolation plays for Amare. He's left alone at the elbow to attack the rim as he pleases.

[dbestpro]

Amare has even said that he wants to go a playoff caliber team with a good passing point guard. Obviously, this is because this is how he gets his dinner table set. I love Amare's game and even think Timmy would defer to Amare, but I do not think Tony can be effective in such sets. Tyrus is intriguing and very well may not be any better than Ian. The problem is the decision has already been made to pass on Ian in the fall. If Tyrus works, then the Spurs will still have him for next year. I really don't care who the Spurs get as long as they get somebody that Pop trusts to play along side Duncan. Once he ditches small ball everything else will fall into place.

[cd98]

I don't think I'm overrating his trade value by saying that the Spurs don't really have what the Suns are looking for, besides the fact that the Suns would never trade a player of Amare's caliber to a Western Conference rival.

Also, I don't think I'm overrating his trade value by saying he's a very large improvement over Yi Jianlian. I mean, seriously. Amare generally averages 21 and 9 while shooting 55%. Compare that to tissue-soft Yi, who averages 15 and 7 on 42% shooting, while playing the same minutes. It's laughable to even compare the two players. Regardless of what general Spurfan bias might dictate, Yi is a worse defender than Amare Stoudemire.
The Suns' primary weakness on the defensive end these past couple of years has been on the perimeter. Nash and JRich can't defend worth a shit, and Grant Hill is too old.

No offense, Suns fan, but your management has shown it is all to willing to part with talent to save a few bucks. And I will spare you the pain of rehashing all the players you could have drafted if your management had not traded them away to save cash.

Also, most teams are second thinking an Amare deal. For one, he is in the last year of his contract and will want big money, which is very risky for a player coming of microfacture surgery (how long will those knees hold up in his career?). For another, it is questionable how well he can mesh with other teams that don't have a Steve Nash to maximize his potential. Finally, people don't really see him as a top tier talent anymore. Sure, the fans voted him to the all-star team, but he's been injury prone and his defensive deficiencies have raised flags.

The Suns are willing to trade (as he's leaving them in the offseason anyway), but they don't appear to have many serious takers (Bulls, Kings already backed out). I really think a little bit of young talent and a few expiring contracts will do.

[DPG21920]

I don't think I'm overrating his trade value by saying that the Spurs don't really have what the Suns are looking for, besides the fact that the Suns would never trade a player of Amare's caliber to a Western Conference rival.

Also, I don't think I'm overrating his trade value by saying he's a very large improvement over Yi Jianlian. I mean, seriously. Amare generally averages 21 and 9 while shooting 55%. Compare that to tissue-soft Yi, who averages 15 and 7 on 42% shooting, while playing the same minutes. It's laughable to even compare the two players. Regardless of what general Spurfan bias might dictate, Yi is a worse defender than Amare Stoudemire.
The Suns' primary weakness on the defensive end these past couple of years has been on the perimeter. Nash and JRich can't defend worth a shit, and Grant Hill is too old.

Spurs do have theoretically what is realistic to get Amare; young talent and expiring contracts. In fact, they have some of the best of those two with Ginobili and Blair and Splitter.

He is solid improvement over Yi, but Yi is getting better while Amare is not. Yi is much cheaper and the upgrade in Amare over Yi might not be worth it. Especially when you consider he won't make them a contender.

[Phenomanul]

Wow, Lets give the rockets a starting future center to go with scola for battier who is overpaid. Great plan

Shane would help us address a defensive need now. And the guy can hit the corner three. Obviously, Splitter can't help us this year, and even under the best case scenario he is not likely to drastically impact the Spurs' winning percentage next year... the likelyhood that he could perform at an all-star caliber level in his first year in the system would be unprecedented.

The Spurs championship window revolves mostly around Duncan's play, his health and age and to a smaller extent, around the chemistry of the Big 3. That window is rapidly closing. Don't get me wrong, Tiago is undoubtably a great player with a high ceiling but we can't expect him to work wonders right off the bat. Timmy is playing elite ball right now and the Spurs' FO realizes that they need to win now. If they went all in for Splitter we would have to wait for him to grow into a complimentary role alongside Duncan.... by then, however, Duncan's championship window is likely to have closed behind him.

Here's the catch... unlike the Scola trade, the Spurs would actually receive a servicable player...

[dbestpro]

I still like the three way trade,

Suns get Miller, Bonner, Mahinmi,
Bulls get Stoudamire, Mason, Finley,
Spurs get Thomas, Salmons, Pargo.

[Brazil]

What we need is for Houston to continue their own losing streak. If that happens, they might be willing to make a trade to help shore up the height of their front line for next year. At that point a Scola + Splitter reunion might seem enticing to them, Splitter being a legit seven footer to back up a broken down Yao.

Finley (or Bonner) + rights to Splitter for Shane Battier

That's a trade that would help both parties....

:lol splitter for Battier ?

[GO SPurs Go]

Does someone have Pop's / Holtz / Buford's email address / mail address. I want to tell them how I feel losing Manu would hurt with everything he's done.

[duhoh]

i heard jefferson + bonner for amare.

that would be interesting.

[lurker23]

i heard jefferson + bonner for amare.

that would be interesting.

Where did you hear that?

[ffadicted]

Does someone have Pop's / Holtz / Buford's email address / mail address. I want to tell them how I feel losing Manu would hurt with everything he's done.

To quote a colorful character in the forums....

son, I'll cosign that shit

[exstatic]

Don Harris says the Spurs aren't trying to get Amare, but they are trying to get in on/help broker the trade to maybe pick up some young pieces or picks with their expiring contracts.

[bigdog]

Don Harris doesn't know anything.

[exstatic]

Don Harris doesn't know anything.

He probably knows more than a forum full of dip shits.

[DPG21920]

He actually gets his rumors from here, then calls someone he "knows" to "confirm" then says he broke the story because "technically" he did.

[Blackjack]

Don Harris says the Spurs aren't trying to get Amare, but they are trying to get in on/help broker the trade to maybe pick up some young pieces or picks with their expiring contracts.

Yeah it got lost in the shuffle a few pages back, so for those who missed it:


Spurs may be involved in Amar'e Stoudemire trade (http://www.woai.com/content/blogs/don/story/Spurs-may-be-involved-in-Amare-Stoudemire-trade/78FLIYcIE0agwBtnSig6hw.cspx)
Reported by: Don Harris

SAN ANTONIO - With the Spurs season at a crossroads one of the biggest questions about the team is are they going to make a trade?

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar'e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.

The Nets, Bulls, Heat and Pistons are said to be the front-runners for Stoudamire. The Spurs may be burning up the lines trying to find something that's going to work.

All this after the Spurs fifth loss in six games Monday night. Coach Gregg Popovich has, admittedly, never tinkered with a lineup so much to try and figure out a winning combination. As the Spurs defense continues to struggle, Coach Pop only played eight guys Monday. Pop says the effort is there, just not the execution.

“Of course they're playing hard. And of course they're competing. That's got nothing to do with the losses or the wins here,” maintains Coach Pop. “The guys always compete and they always work hard. We need to shoot the ball better and our defense has to be more consistent. That's what it's all about.”

The bad news: It only gets tougher from here. I was digging deep, trying to find a silver lining for Spurs fans. But what I found inside the Spurs schedule and the road ahead was a dark tunnel with no light at the end.

Follow if you dare... of the Spurs 39 remaining games, only 14 are at home. 25 are on the road. If that's not bad enough, 15 of their 18 losses this year are against the good teams. Teams over .500. And of their 39 left, 27 are against those good teams. They play the Lakers three more times! Only 12 games remain against bad teams.

I hate to say it, but missing the playoffs is not out of the question.

But let's not be all doom and gloom. On a bright note, Sports Illustrated is taking notice of the great Tim Duncan this week. SI calls Duncan the NBA's metronome. The article says Tim is one of the top 10 players in NBA history and that he's better than ever.

------------------

Tyrus Thomas entered the equation from a scenario Andrew A. McNeil suggested over at 48MoH (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/01/27/thinking-clearer-about-amare/):

One scenario of the Spurs acting as the third team in an Amare trade would see the Spurs receive Tyrus Thomas of the Chicago Bulls and send Matt Bonner and Ian Mahinmi to the Suns. Phoenix would send Stoudemire to Chicago.

This is just one scenario in which there are many alternatives, but I feel like this is much more likely than the Spurs getting Stoudemire in a straight-up swap with Phoenix.

[Blackjack]

Don Harris doesn't know anything.

In this case, he just might; helps when your brother-in-law's Alvin Gentry.

[baseline bum]

Bonner and Mahinmi for Thomas? Man, I wish. That would be sweet.

[DPG21920]

He is probably right though and I cannot imagine the Spurs doing this deal or any deal like this after seeing how RJ has turned out so far.

[Big Empty]

Don Harris rules!

[Big Empty]

I want amare!

[Blackjack]

The Spurs have long had a desire to acquire Thomas (if you believe what's been reported over the last few years). And, personally, I'd love to see him on the Spurs.

People like to kill the guy for his supposed terrible BBIQ, but the guy's got a lot of talent that the Spurs could benefit from and the versatility defensively that should prevent Pop from going small (assuming he hasn't lost his mind; which is open for debate depending on whom you ask) If he can give anything close to what he gave the Bulls last year against the C's, he'd be a big help (pun not intended:lol)

[DPG21920]

If you can get TT by only giving up Bonner+Finley or something like that, you do it.

[Blackjack]

:tu

[Chieflion]

If you can get TT by only giving up Bonner+Finley or something like that, you do it.
I sure would like to see those goaltending calls every day.

[dbestpro]

He probably knows more than a forum full of dip shits.

Uh, you happen to be in this forum voicing an opinion too.

[Blackjack]

I realize you're being facetious, but I really would; a deterrent is a deterrent (his defense on the perimeter ain't too shabby either).

[TD 21]

The Spurs have long had a desire to acquire Thomas (if you believe what's been reported over the last few years). And, personally, I'd love to see him on the Spurs.

People like to kill the guy for his supposed terrible BBIQ, but the guy's got a lot of talent that the Spurs could benefit from and the versatility defensively that should prevent Pop from going small (assuming he hasn't lost his mind; which is open for debate depending on whom you ask) If he can give anything close to what he gave the Bulls last year against the C's, he'd be a big help (pun not intended:lol)

He'd help in regards to having a big to guard against the types of mobile, face-up four's and combo forwards that have killed the Spurs since Horry was still a useful player. However, he's too small to be an ideal compliment to Duncan. 6'8'' 215 means no chance he could effectively match-up with either Gasol or Bynum and ultimately, with any trade, that has to be the goal and the thought: Does this trade help the Spurs to better match-up with the Lakers front line?

[Dex]

I'm afraid that I've made fun of Pushups too much to ever want to see him in a Spurs uniform.

Then again, I guess we finally warmed up to Robert Horry eventually.

[Chieflion]

I realize you're being facetious, but I really would; a deterrent is a deterrent (his defense on the perimeter ain't too shabby either).
He is stupid. When I watched him play against the Spurs, he fell for every single pump fake. Is he really that dumb? There are also some Bulls fans on RealGM that confirmed my thoughts on Tyrus. Sure, he is athletic and all. But he is a big bonehead and for a role player, he sure complains about a lot of things. When your ass is being sat becasue of a rookie like Taj Gibson, I am not sure whether he is really starting caliber or not.

[Ditty]

I wouldnt mid tyrus thomas for ian and maybe finley and possibly going after raja bell for mason

[DPG21920]

See the playoffs.

[dbestpro]

He'd help in regards to having a big to guard against the types of mobile, face-up four's and combo forwards that have killed the Spurs since Horry was still a useful player. However, he's too small to be an ideal compliment to Duncan. 6'8'' 215 means no chance he could effectively match-up with either Gasol or Bynum and ultimately, with any trade, that has to be the goal and the thought: Does this trade help the Spurs to better match-up with the Lakers front line?

6-8 was his height in college. He has grown about an inch and half since he turned pro. He stands a legit 6-10 in shoes.

[jimo2305]

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/

[Blackjack]

He'd help in regards to having a big to guard against the types of mobile, face-up four's and combo forwards that have killed the Spurs since Horry was still a useful player. However, he's too small to be an ideal compliment to Duncan. 6'8'' 215 means no chance he could effectively match-up with either Gasol or Bynum and ultimately, with any trade, that has to be the goal and the thought: "Does this trade help us to better match-up with the Lakers front line?"

I agree, but it's very possible that the Spurs won't be willing to take on Blatche to acquire Haywood, as they'd have to gut their three-point shooting and possibly left without the right assets left to address the deficiency.

Camby, imo, isn't moving; I'm not sure the Spurs have or are willing to give up what it'd take to acquire him, either.

So if those two are out of the equation, which you assume they would be if the Spurs went after Thomas, there's really not a better option than Tyrus for the front court (Duncan-Thomas against Gasol-Odom wouldn't be all that bad if the Spurs ended up getting that far. They'd just have to tread water during those minutes the Lakers trot out Gasol-Bynum).

They'd also still have a couple of trade assets in this particular scenario to bolster and tweak the roster for whatever package they could bring.

[TD 21]

6-8 was his height in college. He has grown about an inch and half since he turned pro. He stands a legit 6-10 in shoes.

I'm not sure where you got this information from, but I don't buy it. I've seen him play many times and I'd be stunned if he were over 6'9'' in shoes. The reality is he's an undersized power forward.


I agree, but it's very possible that the Spurs won't be willing to take on Blatche to acquire Haywood, as they'd have to gut their three-point shooting and possibly left without the right assets left to address the deficiency.

Camby, imo, isn't moving; I'm not sure the Spurs have or are willing to give up what it'd take to acquire him, either.

So if those two are out of the equation, which you assume they would be if the Spurs went after Thomas, there's really not a better option than Tyrus for the front court (Duncan-Thomas against Gasol-Odom wouldn't be all that bad if the Spurs ended up getting that far. They'd just have to tread water during those minutes the Lakers trot out Gasol-Bynum).

They'd also still have a couple of trade assets in this particular scenario to bolster and tweak the roster for whatever package they could bring.

Maybe Haywood or Camby move, maybe they don't. But bringing in a player who doesn't solve the Spurs primary front court need (length) doesn't make a ton of sense. Theoretically, Thomas helps against the Nuggets, Mavs, etc. But the road to the Finals in the West goes through the Lakers and Thomas just can't match-up with Gasol. On top of that, as you said, he has a low basketball IQ and is a malcontent.

[tp2021]

I hope Manu is still a Spur and plays well against Memphis, so I get to see him play one more time.

[dbestpro]

I'm not sure where you got this information from, but I don't buy it. I've seen him play many times and I'd be stunned if he were over 6'9'' in shoes. The reality is he's an undersized power forward.

Deng is 6-9 and Thomas shows about an inch taller than Deng. Maybe its been a while since you've seen him play.

[Stringer_Bell]

If Manu leaves, I leave.

Nah, I dunno, but for me Manu is the heart and the last remaining reminder of toughness other than Duncan. He puts it on the line, and he may not be 100% or the best he's ever been, but I'll take a hobbled Manu over any of the other trade bait options on the Spurs.

[TD 21]

I'm not sure where you got this information from, but I don't buy it. I've seen him play many times and I'd be stunned if he were over 6'9'' in shoes. The reality is he's an undersized power forward.

Deng is 6-9 and Thomas shows about an inch taller than Deng. Maybe its been a while since you've seen him play.

It hasn't. In fact, I just so happened to see his second to last game.

[dbestpro]

It hasn't. In fact, I just so happened to see his second to last game.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/1113185/tyrus-thomas

http://hoopshype.com/players/tyrus_thomas.htm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032

Nobody lists him at 6-8.

[exstatic]

Uh, you happen to be in this forum voicing an opinion too.

Actually, all I "voiced" was what Don said, but yes, I was aware of being a part of the equation. I am in the VAST minority here in that I don't think I know more than the professionals.

[ducks]

If Manu leaves, I leave.

Nah, I dunno, but for me Manu is the heart and the last remaining reminder of toughness other than Duncan. He puts it on the line, and he may not be 100% or the best he's ever been, but I'll take a hobbled Manu over any of the other trade bait options on the Spurs.

you are not a spur fan

[Blackjack]

Maybe Haywood or Camby move, maybe they don't. But bringing in a player who doesn't solve the Spurs primary front court need (length) doesn't make a ton of sense. Theoretically, Thomas helps against the Nuggets, Mavs, etc. But the road to the Finals in the West goes through the Lakers and Thomas just can't match-up with Gasol. On top of that, as you said, he has a low basketball IQ and is a malcontent.

We've talked enough for you to know my feelings on the team and their prospects moving forward, so my only premise is to make the team better and give them the best shot at a good run. Acquiring someone like Thomas (who, again, would only be brought aboard if the Spurs couldn't get a Camby or Haywood) would be a good get; only having to lose Mahinmi and Bonner makes it a no-brainer, imo.

They would still have a good amount of assets left to make another move and they'd be in better position to beat the teams you mentioned, in order to get a shot at the Lakers (that's all you can really hope for at this point).

As for the intelligence knock. I think we, as fans, have to be careful making wholesale judgments on perceptions like that. Do I think he's a basketball savant, of course not. But I'm also reminded of the beating Pietrus took last year and how that turned out (that guy was one of the most integral contributors an a team that went to the Finals). Tyrus has been bashed probably just as much in the past and his playoff performance (granted, in a much shorter stint) was almost as impressive.

Sometimes a player just doesn't fit the mold of what you have in your mind's eye but that shouldn't necessarily prevent you from being open to the possibility. Tyrus can alter shots, defend multiple positions, hit the boards at a decent clip and give you a little bit of offense with a face-up jumper and utilizing his athleticism off the ball; he's a good get and the price (in such a scenario) is right.

[Stringer_Bell]

you are not a spur fan

Manu and Timmy are Spurs, I won't ever back down from my fandom of their efforts and heart. There's been too many excuses put forth this season for outright piss poor execution, and I was down with all of them until the last few weeks of shit performances and player comments (especially that TP "baby sitting" article awhile back). It hasn't been Spurs basketball, and whatever it is I'm definitely not a fan of and if the other trade bait options are just gonna keep this team, my team, OUR team on the same route, I'd rather express my opinion than just be a push over and hope for the best.

Meanwhile, all you can do is troll instead of offer a counterpoint. So go on and troll me, Mr. 40K posts, like it's worth a shit. :elephant

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

I have trouble parting with anybody on this team besides RJ/Bonner. I dont want Blair or Hill to leave at all, and not Manu either. Manu and Amare would be unbelievable.

[Mr Bones]

What worries me about Amar'e is that he was probably overrated before his knee problems, and is in my opinion definitely overrated now. The knock on him has always been his very poor defense, but his defenders always pointed to his age and the absence of a college experience to better learn the fundamentals of good D. That excuse just doesn't hold water anymore. He is still a terrible defender, and in my experience watching basketball it is extremely rare for a player who has been a terrible defender for five consecutive years to suddenly "get it" and start playing good D. The other thing that worries me about Amar'e is how little the Suns missed him when he sat out the 05-06 season. The year before, with Amar'e averaging 26 ppg, the Suns won 62 games, but without him for an entire season they still won 54. Can you imagine what the Spurs' record would've been in 05-06 if Duncan had sat out the entire season? I just attended a Suns game a week ago, and I can honestly say that he was even worse defensively than I thought he would be. His hands are always down, guys are constantly cutting behind him without him realizing it, and he looks most of the time to just be completely lost on the defensive end of the floor. I would even prefer a player like Sam Dalembert over Amar'e... at least he wants to play defense.

[The Btown Spur]

Why The Spurs Need To Deal For Amar’e

By: Andrew Perna (http://realgm.com/src_author_archives/2/andrew_perna/)
RealGM.com Writer


Dont know if this has been posted but its just one mans opinion and worth reading
http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/859/20100127/_why_the_spurs_need_to_deal_for_amare/
January 27, 2010 10:01 PM
You hear some pretty crazy stuff this time of year and I’m not just talking about lewd pictures of supersized centers and viral videos of sixty-year-old men singing about young men with their pants on the ground.
The NBA is no different, especially with the annual trade deadline less than a month away. For every ten rumors you read about on Wiretap, five or more very obviously carry no weight. If you’re lucky, maybe one or two will come to fruition.
A report from Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday morning claimed the San Antonio Spurs (http://spurs.realgm.com/) were having internal discussions about acquiring Amar’e Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns (http://suns.realgm.com/) .
To be honest, I read the report and moved onto the next piece of noteworthy news. How much consideration can you give to any one team in dealing for Stoudemire when his name has been linked to a host of teams over the last week, including, but certainly not limited to, the Chicago Bulls (http://bulls.realgm.com/) , New Jersey Nets (http://nets.realgm.com/) , Golden State Warriors (http://warriors.realgm.com/) and Miami Heat (http://heat.realgm.com/) ?
Then, a few minutes later, the thought of Stoudemire in San Antonio began to sink in. There is a simple practice I like to employ when assessing trade rumors in sports, particularly in the NBA. I sit back and take a look at a potential deal from both sides, in this case that of the Suns and Spurs.
Suddenly, the thought of Stoudemire next to Tim Duncan (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/324/tim_duncan/) started to look better and even clearer.
Of course, as in any deal, there are hurdles and roadblocks that will need to be dealt with prior to the Feb. 18 deadline. Before I get into why the Spurs need Stoudemire, let’s answer each of the below questions.
--Can San Antonio put together a package good enough for Phoenix to accept?
The Spurs are only 1 ½ games ahead of the ninth seed in the Western Conference, but let’s assume they make the postseason. Barring a huge jump, they are looking at a pick in the 18-22 range in June’s NBA Draft. When you are talking about a player of Stoudemire’s caliber, a draft pick is likely to be involved.
In addition, Phoenix’s 2010 first rounder is going to Oklahoma City, which may place additional importance on getting one in return for their All-Star big man.
Of course, due to the rules of the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, a trade centered around a draft pick isn’t going to cut it. Stoudemire’s salary for this season, almost $16.4 million, won’t make a deal easy either. Luckily for the Spurs, they have a host of expiring contracts (which are like gold in today’s NBA).
We’ll get into Manu Ginobili (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/536/manu_ginobili/) below, but they can use the expiring deals of Roger Mason (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/684/roger_mason/) Jr. ($3.78M) Matt Bonner (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/873/matt_bonner/) ($3.2M) Michael Finley (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/216/michael_finley/) ($2.5M) and Theo Ratliff (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/80/theo_ratliff/) ($1.3M) to pry Amar’e from Phoenix.
--Would they part with Ginobili in order to make the deal happen?
Ginobili’s expiring contract, which is worth $10.7 million, is more than half of Stoudemire’s deal, making it an important piece in any deal for the All-Star forward. The guard has been a staple in San Antonio, whether starting or coming off the bench, since 2002, but the 32-year-old certainly appears to be on the downside of his career.
He has never appeared in more than 77 games in his eight NBA season and missed 38 games last year. Manu plays through injuries, but his production always seems to suffer. He’s averaging 12.8 points per game, a six-year low, and he’s shooting a career-low 39.8% from the field.
In short, it wouldn’t be a bad time (or way) for the Spurs to end the Argentinean’s run in the silver-and-black.
--Do the Spurs think they’ll be able to re-sign Stoudemire as a free agent?
San Antonio will pay the luxury tax this season, barring an unforeseen salary-dump-type trade, and they have more than $53 million committed to just six players in the 2010-11 season. Stoudemire, who is expected to decline his $17.6 million player option for next season and look for a long-term deal, would be the team’s fourth eight-figure player.
Assuming the Spurs give Stoudemire a deal worth approximately $15 million next season, they’d have more than $62 million tied up in Stoudemire, Tim Duncan (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/324/tim_duncan/), Richard Jefferson (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/295/richard_jefferson/) and Tony Parker (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/331/tony_parker/). That’s well over the decreasing salary cap and there are another eight roster spots to fill. When you add the contracts of Antonio McDyess (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/230/antonio_mcdyess/), George Hill (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1409/george_hill/) and DeJuan Blair (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1558/dejuan_blair/) for 2010-11, San Antonio’s cap number hits close to $70 million (for eight bodies).
Spurs owner Peter Holt opened up his wallet this season, but will he be willing to do so again?
The heavy tax bill could last just one year with the contracts of Richard Jefferson (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/295/richard_jefferson/) and Tony Parker (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/331/tony_parker/) coming off the books in 2011. It’s hard to imagine Parker going elsewhere, but the Jefferson experiment hasn’t gone as planned thus far. I’m not giving up on what was considered one of the biggest acquisitions of the offseason, but at the very least he won’t be a $15 million player in 2011.
--Would Suns general manager Steve Kerr (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/319/steve_kerr/) want to send Amar’e to a Western rival?
A majority of the teams that have been mentioned in rumors involving Stoudemire are from the Eastern Conference, but there are a variety of reasons for that. For one, there are more teams in the East with cap room in this and upcoming seasons. Second, there are more teams looking to shake things up and start anew in the East.
Kerr has swung two major deals in his two seasons in Phoenix -- the Marion/Shaq deal and the Shaq-to-Cleveland deal -- both of which involved the East. However, he has a history of working with R.C. Buford, having traded the rights to Malik Hairston (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1448/malik_hairston/) and cash to the Spurs for the rights for Goran Dragic (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1446/goran_dragic/) on Draft Night in 2008.
Ultimately, it’ll likely come down to who can offer what for Stoudemire and the Spurs will have quite a bit of competition.
--What kind of package is Phoenix looking for in return?
It’s hard to get a feel for exactly what Kerr is looking for, but with a variety of suitors he’ll likely be able to sit back and decide what package works best for the Suns. They have lost three of their last ten games and are in danger of falling out of the playoff picture with the Rockets, Hornets and Thunder breathing down their neck.
Their play in the next two weeks will have a huge bearing on any potential Stoudemire deal. If they continue to struggle, the likelihood of a deal will increase and their focus on next season will alter what they are looking for in return. If they peel off a run of victories, Kerr may be more likely to hold onto Stoudemire and roll the dice this offseason in exchange for a possible postseason berth.
If I were Kerr, my ideal package would include a first-round pick this June, about $8-$10 million in expiring contracts and between $6-8 million worth of young/role players.
With all those questions answered, how badly do the Spurs need Stoudemire?
Very badly.
As I mentioned earlier, San Antonio is a moderate losing streak away from the Lottery and the offseason acquisition of Jefferson hasn’t provided them with the shot in the arm they needed. They need to add talent and youth, something Amar’e would unquestionably bring.
Sure, he’s got more miles on his tires than a typical 27-year-old and a history of injury, but Stoudemire has shown this season that he can be a force once again. He’s averaging 20.6 points and 8.4 rebounds without having missed a game.
Much like Duncan did for David Robinson (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/316/david_robinson/), the addition of Amar’e would help extend the career of the iconic power forward.
Duncan is just a little bit older than Robinson was when the Spurs drafted the former first overall in 1997. The Admiral was able to play fewer minutes and sustain a high level of play with the younger Duncan around. The cycle could begin again, with Duncan serving as Robinson and Stoudemire serving as a slightly older and more boisterous version of Duncan.
The Spurs are already giving Duncan games off to keep him fresh. The addition of a player like Stoudemire would be ideal. Duncan has always had a great supporting cast, with the full emergence of guys like Parker and Ginobili after the retirement of Robinson, but he hasn’t had an elite interior force to lessen then burden since Navy’s most famous basketball alum retired.
Without the injuries, Amar’e would be in his athletic prime, although it’s possible that he could improve mentally over the next season or two. I’m not sure he’ll approach his numbers from 2005 or 2008 (his best seasons, averaging roughly 25 points, nine rebounds and more than two rejections), but assuming his knees and eyes hold up, he certainly has another handful of borderline All-Star seasons left.
I’m talking about averages of 18-22 points, around eight boards and at least one block per game. Playing alongside a guy like Duncan would make him more effective with defenses having to pick-their-poison when facing the Spurs. If he plays up to those expectations, we’re talking about a guy with roughly 20,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 1,000 blocks before he hits his mid-thirties.
That’s exactly the kind of player that could put San Antonio back onto their title-every-odd-year track.
Of course, Stoudemire’s critics contend that he hasn’t been the same player since he returned from microfracture surgery.
His true shooting percentage, rebound rate and PER are all down in each of the last two seasons. Stoudemire’s TS% was at it’s highest in 2008, but it’s dipped to 60.6% this year, a number better than just three of his seven other campaigns, though still very good.
Amar’e has seen his rebound rate go up this year (to 13.6 from 12.9), but he’s down from a three-year stretch (2006-08) when he posted rates of 17.8, 17.0 and 15.2. Keeping in line with his decreasing efficiency, his PER has gone down in each of the last two years.
Last season’s numbers could be considered an aberration due to the lost season in Phoenix brought on by Terry Porter (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/317/terry_porter/)’s failed coaching tenure, but that doesn’t explain this year’s dip, which fuels critic’s claims that his knee injures have robbed him of effectiveness.
With that said how many players are averaging more than 20 points, eight rebounds and one block per game?
The list is a short one: Chris Bosh (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/832/chris_bosh/), Chris Kaman (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/834/chris_kaman/) and Stoudemire.
There are a number of deals that could put Amar’e alongside Duncan, but the one I like best involves San Antonio sending Ginobili, Mason and a future draft pick to Phoenix for Stoudemire and a second-round pick farther down the road.
The Spurs (and Suns) have options. San Antonio could swap Mason out for Bonner or Finley (all expiring deals).
San Antonio was the NBA’s textbook franchise in the 2000s, but they need to take a chance heading into the new decade.

[lrrr]

Pop leaked this to light a fire under McDyess and RJ's asses.

[senorglory]

has anyone mentioned:
1) Amare's team and individual defense is questionable (though improved), potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs;
2) Amare's offense relies on transition and one the greatest of pass-first point guards, whereas the Spurs offense is traditionally half-court oriented, and our point guard, although a reliable distributor of the ball on penetrate and kick sets, is largely a scoring point guard, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs. and
3) Manu is our only perimeter player currently able to create offense for himself, and, while not a lock-down defender, is often capable of game changing defensive swipes, potentially making a trade of Manu a poor decision for the Spurs.

likewise, has anyone pointed out that on the other hand:
1) Amare is strong and athletic, and can jump out of the building, and could fill a long standing need in the Spurs' frontline.
2) Amare lights us up everytime we face him in the playoffs, and it would be nice to get him away from one of our regular western conference rivals.

but still, has anyone brought up that:
1) Amare is a douchebag, and that his entire time in Phoenix has been marred by poor relations in the locker room, with management, and with the coaching staff, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs.
2) Amare was so irked and discontented that the Sun's offensive focus included fellow all-star Marion, that the Suns were forced into trading away one or the other, certain that the situation could otherwise not be resolved, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs. and
3) Amare passionately and violently hates gingers, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs.

[Big P]

Lets try this again...the Spurs are not going to trade for Amare, they are hoping to help facilitate a trade(ie. be the third team in the trade) & in that scenario, we would most likely receive a player like Tyrus Thomas in exchange for hopefully bonner & finley...so no need to worry about his knee, or how tall he is, or his d..etc..

[Mr. Body]

JESUS PEOPLE. The Spurs aren't looking at Amare. It's plain and simple they are not and your speculation is beside the point.

Stoudamire is worth a lot more to teams like the Bulls. What the Spurs could get out of joining as facilitator is far more important here, and that's why they're hovering around.

[senorglory]

JESUS PEOPLE. The Spurs aren't looking at Amare. It's plain and simple they are not and your speculation is beside the point.

Stoudamire is worth a lot more to teams like the Bulls. What the Spurs could get out of joining as facilitator is far more important here, and that's why they're hovering around.

oh, o.k., I see now.

[Xylus]

1) Amare is a douchebag, and that his entire time in Phoenix has been marred by poor relations in the locker room, with management, and with the coaching staff, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs.
2) Amare was so irked and discontented that the Sun's offensive focus included fellow all-star Marion, that the Suns were forced into trading away one or the other, certain that the situation could otherwise not be resolved, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs. and
3) Amare passionately and violently hates gingers, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs.

The rest of your argument is spot-on, but I have to contest these points. Amare gets a bad rap, but I've never seen Amare pout, get down on a teammate, argue with a coach, argue with a teammate, etc. He's always supportive of his fellow Suns, is always complimentary of other players, and seems to get along fine with everyone in the locker room. The only person he's ever seemed to have a problem with was Marion, and that was more Marion's ego than Amare's. It was Marion that verbally complained most of the time, not Amare.

Amare does a lot of charity work, is actively involved in the Phoenix community, and has a great relationship with fans. I don't know where this idea comes from that Amare is a douchebag. Just because he did some pushups while playing the Spurs doesn't make him a bad person. :lol

And who doesn't hate gingers?

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs should've learned from last year that number one picks are as precious as gold. They gave away last year's pick to OKC in the dreaded KT trade the year before. Fortunately for them, they hedged themselves by having PHX's #37 pick and used that to get Blair.

It makes no difference that they want to win now, this team is staring at an upcoming transition in a year or so. How well the new acquisitions fare will determine whether that transition occurs sooner rather than later. Right now, they aren't faring very well. Therefore, the Spurs can ill-afford to start giving away picks.

[senorglory]

The rest of your argument is spot-on, but I have to contest these points. Amare gets a bad rap, but I've never seen Amare pout, get down on a teammate, argue with a coach, argue with a teammate, etc. He's always supportive of his fellow Suns, is always complimentary of other players, and seems to get along fine with everyone in the locker room. The only person he's ever seemed to have a problem with was Marion, and that was more Marion's ego than Amare's. It was Marion that verbally complained most of the time, not Amare.

Amare does a lot of charity work, is actively involved in the Phoenix community, and has a great relationship with fans. I don't know where this idea comes from that Amare is a douchebag. Just because he did some pushups while playing the Spurs doesn't make him a bad person. :lol

And who doesn't hate gingers?

You may be right, I was basing that last part on what I read in 7 Seconds Or Less, which consistent with what you're saying, does put Marion in a much worse light.

Personally, I like Amare, and haven't seen him act out on the court. Maybe the media has blown things all out of proportion. Maybe Chris Ford is a liar.

[DesignatedT]

amare isnt the answer, and its not going to happen.

what spurs need is another big to help anchor the paint. mcdyess played well tonight and he needs to continue to get minutes and play well, there is a lot of pressure on him being the 2nd best big. Blair is atrocious on defense and bonner is bonner.

If the spurs could try to bring in a player like Haywood, Camby or even Ty Thomas... that would help our defense just by having better size and rebounding.

[TD 21]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/1113185/tyrus-thomas

http://hoopshype.com/players/tyrus_thomas.htm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032

Nobody lists him at 6-8.

Yeah, I know. Even though I believe I said 6-8 multiple times, I meant 6-9. Whatever the case may be, I know he's not 6-10 and that means he's not big enough to effectively guard Gasol.

[malcedor]

It's a business, plain and simple. The sooner people realize this, the less stressful this will all become. We are seeing first hand what happens when we put loyalty above good business sense. The team is dysfunctional and a non-issue in terms of contending for a title, and all owed to the belief that an expensive, rusty piece would make all the difference.
.

it's about more than that just loyalty. as noted elsewhere, this team won championships with the likes of Oberto and Finley in the starting lineup... chemistry is more important than a single player with good stats - particularly when those stats are inflated and that player is not interested in team basketball.

and yes, the team is dysfunctional, more so this year than last. what's changed since then? we went out and overspent on players with good stats, messing up the team's chemistry. why do the same thing again and exacerbate the problem?

[Dingle Barry]

it's about more than that just loyalty. as noted elsewhere, this team won championships with the likes of Oberto and Finley in the starting lineup... chemistry is more important than a single player with good stats - particularly when those stats are inflated and that player is not interested in team basketball.

and yes, the team is dysfunctional, more so this year than last. what's changed since then? we went out and overspent on players with good stats, messing up the team's chemistry. why do the same thing again and exacerbate the problem?

Because if chemistry is jacked we should at least get players with better stats.

[lennyalderette]

manu and tim are the heart of this team anyone but them please pop!!!!!!!!!!! i will be disgusted if we let go manu the way hes been trying so hard!!!! and hes not injured and can actually contribute without the ball!!!!!

[duncan228]

What is Phoenix thinking with Amar'e? (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/What-is-Phoenix-thinking-with-Amar-e-?urn=nba,216272)
By Kelly Dwyer

As you've likely heard by now, multiple sources are telling Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemirespurs012610&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) that the Spurs are exploring the idea of potentially trading for Phoenix big man Amar'e Stoudemire. The thinking goes that the Spurs are in full-on win now-mode, and though it may cost San Antonio Manu Ginobili plus rotation parts, the trade off might still be worth it.

For Phoenix, going big-to-small and young-to-old in picking up Manu-for-Amar'e comes down to simple finances. The Suns have been bent on cutting costs since owner Robert Sarver made his first big splash as Suns owner back in the summer of 2005, costing them a series of young players, and they don't think Amar'e will re-sign in Phoenix after he opts-out of the last year of his contract this summer. They think he's gone, to greener pastures, so you might as well try to secure some contributors for his services right now.

That's the logical thinking, for now. We're still not sure about that, but we'll hold off on those thoughts until later in this post.

The immediate reaction, from the comments that dot these pages to the mainstream media bloviators on TV, runs along the line of, "the Spurs wouldn't make that deal. Amar'e Stoudemire isn't what the Spurs are all about."

Well, no. The Spurs are about winning. And though Amar'e doesn't subscribe to the team's usual philosophy of defense-first, and tattoos-last, Gregg Popovich will do anything he can to secure a roster that they think will help them win. Even if that means going against type.

And if coach Pop and San Antonio R.C. Buford think that Amar'e Stoudemire will help them win, as much as I think I like to know what's what in this league, I'm inclined to buy their take over mine.

It's Phoenix's intentions, at this early (and hypothetical) point in the game, that I'm concerned about.

The Suns are reeling, in danger of missing the playoffs for the second straight year, and facing all sorts of internal crises. The budget has to be cut. The team's best player, Steve Nash, might be enjoying a career year; but he also about to turn 36 years old. The team's core, at its absolute best (something that, with Nash and Grant Hill aging), is still far from championship core.

Would trading for Manu Ginobili, George Hill, and Matt Bonner change that? Likely not. Nash and Manu could ham and egg it like no guard duo we've ever seen before, but they could also fail to mesh properly, working with another guard that needs the ball as much.

I don't quite think that's the point, though.

Manu has an expiring contract. And while it's been accepted that if the Suns pulled the trigger on a deal like this that Manu would be off this summer and that the Suns would enjoy the savings (without adding rookies, the Suns would be at around $46 million in payroll next summer, about six or seven million under the expected cap). But I think we're underestimating the sheer amount of savings that they're thinking about right now.

Perhaps the idea that the Suns won't be able to sign Amar'e after the season is just a ruse. They might very well be fearing a Carlos Boozer-styled, unexpected opt-in. And as it is with the San Antonio front office, I trust the Suns front office to have best handle on what means most ($$$) to Amar'e.

Perhaps the Suns know the lay of the land better than anyone at this point, understanding both Stoudemire better than any team and what this summer's offseason will look like better than Stoudemire does, and they're thinking of trading Amar'e because they know that Stoudemire will actually opt-in next year.

That he'll be on the books for close to $18 million. And while a potent scoring big like Stoudemire is usually worth his weight in gold, I have a good feeling that the Suns are less scared about the typical "we'd lose him for nothing anyway" shrug of shoulders, and more fearful that Amar'e would be opting into almost $18 million that they for years hadn't planned on paying him.

It's been assumed for years, since he returned with a force in 2006-07, that Stoudemire would be opting-out and joining the 2010 free agent class. Since then, the Suns have been furiously cutting salary, while moving high-priced deck chairs like Shawn Marion, Shaquille O'Neal, and Ben Wallace, along with paying money to cut themselves loose from Wallace and former coach Terry Porter's presence.

They've also been preparing for what could be an impending lockout, prepping for what could be the second straight spring without playoff revenue, and do you think (as much as they and we revere someone like Steve Nash) they would have re-signed their former MVP point man to play until he's 38 at over 11 and a half million a year had they known Stoudemire would opt in?

I think they're freaked out that Amar'e might not leave, thinking he'll act pennywise (the impending 2011 CBA will no doubt limit his chances to eventually make more money than he'd make this summer) in the face of being unable to make more than $18 million starting with a new team. And I can't blame them.

And because it's not my money, I can't blame them for looking around for expiring contracts that truly are expiring contracts, and not the sort of "expiring contract" we thought Carlos Boozer owned this time last year.

To me, the oddity in all of this isn't the Spurs, thinking aloud about a player that seems a bit unlike them.

It's Phoenix. Still desperate to cut costs, fearful of being "stuck" with a player who can drop 25 and 10 in his sleep.

[Allanon]

Would trading for Manu Ginobili, George Hill, and Matt Bonner change that? Likely not.

This trade package makes the most sense.

I think there's way too much buzz about this for it to be unfounded.

[GO SPurs Go]

pop/buford/holz contact info anyone?????????????????????/

[dbestpro]

Could the Spurs trade Manu, then the Suns cut him and the Spurs resign him like the Barry situation a few years ago?

[tp2021]

Could the Spurs trade Manu, then the Suns cut him and the Spurs resign him like the Barry situation a few years ago?
Stern would sniff that collusion out in a nanosecond.

[TD 21]

We've talked enough for you to know my feelings on the team and their prospects moving forward, so my only premise is to make the team better and give them the best shot at a good run. Acquiring someone like Thomas (who, again, would only be brought aboard if the Spurs couldn't get a Camby or Haywood) would be a good get; only having to lose Mahinmi and Bonner makes it a no-brainer, imo.

They would still have a good amount of assets left to make another move and they'd be in better position to beat the teams you mentioned, in order to get a shot at the Lakers (that's all you can really hope for at this point).

As for the intelligence knock. I think we, as fans, have to be careful making wholesale judgments on perceptions like that. Do I think he's a basketball savant, of course not. But I'm also reminded of the beating Pietrus took last year and how that turned out (that guy was one of the most integral contributors an a team that went to the Finals). Tyrus has been bashed probably just as much in the past and his playoff performance (granted, in a much shorter stint) was almost as impressive.

Sometimes a player just doesn't fit the mold of what you have in your mind's eye but that shouldn't necessarily prevent you from being open to the possibility. Tyrus can alter shots, defend multiple positions, hit the boards at a decent clip and give you a little bit of offense with a face-up jumper and utilizing his athleticism off the ball; he's a good get and the price (in such a scenario) is right.

My premise, as I'm sure it is the Spurs premise, is to make them certified contenders again. Any trade that can't (theoretically) accomplish that is pointless. Thomas fits into that category. I don't think this team needs to gut their roster or make drastic changes to become a contender again. Sure, they could use a player like Thomas, they could use a better perimeter stopper, they could use more depth at PG, but in reality no team has everything covered and the one glaring hole this team does have is number two big man. They get that and it will probably minimize the importance of those other needs.

Thomas seems moody and is a perpetual malcontent. I have a hard time believing he would embrace the Spurs system (or be able to pick up enough of it in less than 30 games to be able to make an impact in the playoffs). Think about if: if a guy like McDyess, who's known as a solid veteran, with a relatively high basketball IQ and a strong work ethic still doesn't look entirely comfortable (though that may be changing the past few games), then how will Thomas, who's not regarded as being any of those things?

[Allanon]

Could the Spurs trade Manu, then the Suns cut him and the Spurs resign him like the Barry situation a few years ago?

This can't happen due to a bunch of reasons but the simplest to explain would be the salary cap.

Spurs are already several million $$ over the salary cap this year and will most likely be over cap next year if they keep Amare so they can't sign any free agents (Manu would basically be a free agent in your scenario).

[dbestpro]

This can't happen due to a bunch of reasons but the simplest to explain would be the salary cap.

Spurs are already several million $$ over the salary cap this year and will most likely be over cap next year if they keep Amare.

That was the issue with Dice when he was traded to Denver cut and resigned by Detroit. Detroit was over the cap. The salary cap part was assessed to Denver and Dice was resigned for the prorated vet minimum. The same happened with Barry.

[ChumpDumper]

This can't happen due to a bunch of reasons but the simplest to explain would be the salary cap.

Spurs are already several million $$ over the salary cap this year and will most likely be over cap next year if they keep Amare so they can't sign any free agents (Manu would basically be a free agent in your scenario).Of course it could theoretically happen. Manu would get his full salary from the Suns and a prorated minimum deal from the Spurs.

[Allanon]

That was the issue with Dice when he was traded to Denver cut and resigned by Detroit. Detroit was over the cap. The salary cap part was assessed to Denver and Dice was resigned for the prorated vet minimum. The same happened with Barry.

The difference in this is that Manu's a $10 million player.

If Manu's willing to take the veteran minimum, yes, the Spurs can get him back.

But from recent stories regarding Manu, it seems more likely that Manu will treat this as a business transaction and get the most he can get; rather than take a paycut in loyalty to the Spurs.

[Allanon]

Of course it could theoretically happen. Manu would get his full salary from the Suns and a prorated minimum deal from the Spurs.

Theoretically. Sure it can happen next season (not this season).

However, I don't see Manu taking a paycut down to the vet minimum for the Spurs though due to his recent comments about realizing the NBA is a business and unhappiness about not getting a new contract/extension.

[DPG21920]

Theoretically. Sure it can happen.

However, I don't see Manu taking a paycut for the Spurs though due to his recent comments about realizing the NBA is a business.

Why are we arguing hypotheticals?:lol

[Allanon]

Why are we arguing hypotheticals?:lol

:lol Absolutely right. No more argument from me.

[dbestpro]

Manu would not take a pay cut. He would be due his salary from the Suns and get a vet minimum bonus. I do think he would have to get through waivers which I'm not sure would happen.

[ChumpDumper]

Theoretically. Sure it can happen next season (not this season).

However, I don't see Manu taking a paycut down to the vet minimum for the Spurs though due to his recent comments about realizing the NBA is a business and unhappiness about not getting a new contract/extension.Who could pay him more at this point?

[ChumpDumper]

Manu would not take a pay cut. He would be due his salary from the Suns and get a vet minimum bonus. I do think he would have to get through waivers which I'm not sure would happen.I don't think anyone is under the cap in an amount that would equal Manu's deal.

[Allanon]

Manu would not take a pay cut. He would be due his salary from the Suns and get a vet minimum bonus. I do think he would have to get through waivers which I'm not sure would happen.


Who could pay him more at this point?

I thought you guys might be referring to next season.

The Spurs can't sign Manu again this season (even if waived). They are over the salary cap and cannot sign any free agents unless they pay them the vet minimum.

[ChumpDumper]

I thought you guys might be referring to next season.Nope.


The Spurs can't sign Manu again this season (even if waived). They are over the salary cap and cannot sign any free agents.Sure they can. The Spurs have already done it in the past. So have the Lakers.

[Allanon]

Nope.

Sure they can. The Spurs have already done it in the past. So have the Lakers.

Sure, with the veteran minimum.

You actually believe Manu will take the vet minimum after all he has said?

[TD 21]

Two more things about this...

1) I've got a theory: The Spurs leaked this in order to give this team a kick in the ass.

2) Stoudemire is a pipe dream and Camby and Haywood have been talked about non stop. Maybe the Spurs will acquire someone more low key? Such as: Foster. He can guard mobile four's, is a stout post defender, a beast on the board and doesn't need the ball to be effective. On the downside, he's been slowed (again) this year by a bad back and has another year left on his contract at $6, 655, 000 ($6, 077, 500 this year).

[5in10]

Vet minimum is all your allowed to get after being waived isn't it?

[Allanon]

Vet minimum is all your allowed to get after being waived isn't it?

Vet minimum is the most any team can pay if they are already over the salary cap and have already used both the MLE and the LLE (bi-annual exception).

If waived right away by the Suns, Manu could get paid more than the vet minimum by teams that are under the salary cap or still have their MLE or LLE. I believe the Spurs used their MLE on Dice and their LLE on Ratliff (not 100% sure).

[Chieflion]

Vet minimum is the most any team can pay if they are already over the salary cap and have already used both the MLE and the LLE (bi-annual exception).

If waived right away by the Suns, Manu could get paid more than the vet minimum by teams that are under the salary cap or still have their MLE or LLE.
We haven't used our LLE yet. If Manu wants it, the Spurs will most likely agree to it.

[Allanon]

We haven't used our LLE yet. If Manu wants it, the Spurs will most likely agree to it.

I thought the Spurs used the LLE on Ratliff, my mistake.

[5in10]

Lol I like all this talk but it seems very unlikely that Phoenix would waive him unless they really wanted to tank in which case would be awesome.

[Nathan Explosion]

What I'm not getting is how people are immediately shooting down this rumor. While it's far fetched in my opinion and I'm not sure how Amare would fit with the team, the Spurs get dominated by athletic front courts. Adding Amare definitely evens the playing field. Amare may not be the best defender (to put it nicely) but he could definitely take on the scoring role on one side and let Duncan anchor the defense.

And just having his presence around the rim could help counter the athletic bigs that take Tim on one on three sometimes for a rebound.

[Thompson]

Lol I like all this talk but it seems very unlikely that Phoenix would waive him unless they really wanted to tank in which case would be awesome.

They don't want to tank this year because they don't own their first round pick. The only reason they might consider it would be to save even more money if Manu would take a smaller buyout than the remaining money he's owed on the contract. Trading Amare for nothing won't sit well with an already disappointed fan base. Unlikely, but you never know with the Suns.

While we're at it, let's see if we can get their unprotected 2012 pick for a couple Benjamins.

[My Fault]

This is never gonna happen and if it remotely could I wouldn't really want this to be the trade the Spurs do. Spurs need D in the paint not more scoring and only a big who can play solid D and rebound fits the bill of what is needed.

[JustinJDW]

If something is too good to be true, it probably is. :wakeup

[NickiRasgo]

Richard Jefferson, Michael Finley and Matt Bonner for Amar'e Stoudemire and Jared Dudley.

[Biggems]

I would rather have Channing Frye........he is so much less of a knucklehead than Amare. Plus, Channing seems a lot more coachable.

If the Spurs could acquire any big man......my choice would be

1. Pau Gasol
2. Brook Lopez
3. Andrew Bynum

[Leetonidas]

I would rather have Channing Frye........he is so much less of a knucklehead than Amare. Plus, Channing seems a lot more coachable.

If the Spurs could acquire any big man......my choice would be

1. Pau Gasol
2. Brook Lopez
3. Andrew Bynum

Channing Frye sucks ass. And the three players you mentioned would NEVER be traded to the Spurs, ever.

[Biggems]

Channing Frye sucks ass. And the three players you mentioned would NEVER be traded to the Spurs, ever.

Channing Frye is a more athletic Matt Bonner.

As for the other 3, I am well aware than none of them will ever be traded to SA. My point was, I would rather have all 3 of them over Stoudamire. BTW, I cannot believe that I forgot to put Bosh on that list.

[Leetonidas]

How could you forget the perfect big man to have next to Tim -- Dwight Howard?

[Leetonidas]

*Jizzes at the thought of our interior defense*

[Biggems]

How could you forget the perfect big man to have next to Tim -- Dwight Howard?

I didnt forget Howard.....but Orlando would be completely brain damaged to let him go.

[Biggems]

*Jizzes at the thought of our interior defense*

C - Howard
PF - Duncan
SF - Artest
SG - Manu
PG - Hill

Score on us, I dare you:lol

[Drewlius]

I didnt forget Howard.....but Orlando would be completely brain damaged to let him go.

lol, as if NJ/LA would get rid of Lopez/Pau.

:nope

[senorglory]

Stern would sniff that collusion out in a nanosecond.

What deals has Stern axed in the past?