Wojnarowski: Spurs consider bidding for Stoudemire

[duncan228]

Spurs consider bidding for Stoudemire (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemirespurs012610&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
By Adrian Wojnarowski

Another intriguing suitor could emerge in the bidding for Phoenix Suns star Amar’e Stoudemire: the San Antonio Spurs.

Multiple league sources say the Spurs’ front office has researched and debated pursuing Stoudemire to play alongside Tim Duncan.

There are questions for the Spurs to answer: Would they be willing to part with the personnel – including possibly Manu Ginobili – to make a deal happen?

Do the Spurs want to re-sign Stoudemire to a contract extension and swell their payroll?

Do they believe Stoudemire could be the difference for their fifth championship?

All questions with no clear answers for the Spurs – yet.

Nevertheless, the possibility of an athletic, offensive force like Stoudemire has become too irresistible to easily dismiss. The Spurs (25-18) have lost five of their past six games, and have fallen into sixth place in the Western Conference.

“They know they’ve got to do something,” says a source familiar with the front office’s thinking. “They feel like they’ve got to at least look at this … and they are.”

The Miami Heat are exploring the possibility of a deal, but Pat Riley also knows he can keep Dwyane Wade and sign Stoudemire as a free agent this summer. Miami’s president doesn’t have to make a trade now. Chicago, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Detroit and Minnesota are among other teams with an interest with Stoudemire.

For Phoenix and San Antonio, there could be a different urgency. The Suns are motivated to move Stoudemire out of a growing belief they’ll never come to terms with him on a contract extension. Stoudemire can opt out of the $17.7 million owed him next season. Suns owner Robert Sarver has been in constant cost-cutting mode, and although he does want to keep Stoudemire, it’s become increasingly unlikely that will happen.

The Spurs need a young, athletic frontcourt complement for an aging Duncan. Despite taking on significant payroll this summer in moves for Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess, it’s become clearer to the Spurs that their frontline is still ill-equipped to overthrow the Los Angeles Lakers.

The Spurs have always maintained an interest in Toronto Raptors forward Chris Bosh, a Texas native, but Raptors’ general manager Bryan Colangelo has yet to show a strong inclination to trade his star before his impending free agency this summer.

As painful as it would be for the franchise and fans, the Spurs could try to part with Ginobili and his $10.8 million expiring contract to make a package work. What about burgeoning young guard George Hill, a Gregg Popovich favorite? The Spurs also own the rights to one of the best young centers in Europe, Tiago Splitter, whom a source says could leave the Spanish League to get to the NBA next season.

Many league executives wonder, too: Would the Suns be adverse to trading such a major talent to a longstanding Western Conference rival? Perhaps, but understand the market for Stoudemire is somewhat limited because so many teams don’t want to part with well-regarded assets and draft picks for what could amount to be a rent-a-player for this season.

Almost all teams would want assurance they could re-sign Stoudemire. Given the All-Star’s stated desire to play for a championship contender, staying with the Spurs wouldn’t seem to be the most difficult sell.

[Chieflion]

My jaw dropped while I was reading this. If this is true, I don't know whether to be happy or sad.

[Fabbs]

I love GNob but done and done if Phx would go for it.
GNobs health i believe will continue to be iffy and on a downslide.

What a waste Jefferson and Dice have been so far.

[celldweller]

...and so it begins.

[sananspursfan21]

wow. i'd have mixed feelings about amare. i'd probly love it and hate it at the same time. he's not known for lockdown d at all, but the spurs do play team defense and he's got good physique for a paint presence. i know if somehow it ended up happening, i couldn't help but get excited.

[Ditty]

I would do it if requires bot touching parker,duncan,ginobili even jefferson who could be useful

but still doesnt make us better defense wise just more athletic

but i really doubt the suns offer there best player for nothing espically to a conference rival adn a team there still bitter for

[crc21209]

WOW....I'm not going to lie losing Manu would hurt...and although Amare isnt exactly the best defender...he does bring a 7 ft. defensive "presence" at least and does block shots. And he also finishes at the basket and over the years has developed a 15-18 foot jumper.

[Blackjack]

L o l...

[El Jefe]

wow. i'd have mixed feelings about amare. i'd probly love it and hate it at the same time. he's not known for lockdown d at all, but the spurs do play team defense and he's got good physique for a paint presence. i know if somehow it ended up happening, i couldn't help but get excited.

He's not known for lockdown d, or help d, or post d, or d on the pick and roll....

[crc21209]

He's not known for lockdown d, or help d, or post d, or d on the pick and roll....

But put him next to TD and who knows....

[~Sweetmelody~]

Why can't we get rid of Jefferson instead of Manu :bang *cries*

I know...it's just talk but just thinking about it...:(

[TD 21]

I'm happy. Not at that prospect of getting Stoudemire (I know it's a long shot that that would happen and an even longer shot that he re-signs in small market San Antonio to play third fiddle to Duncan and Parker), but happy at these quotes: "they know they need to do something" and "it’s become clearer to the Spurs that their frontline is still ill-equipped to overthrow the Los Angeles Lakers". Even though it was blatantly obvious to anyone watching, it's good to know that the front office is seemingly motivated to do something.

I don't think Stoudemire would be a great fit. He plays no defense, is a sub-par rebounder/shot blocker and needs the ball to be effective. Not to mention, just think what the Spurs would have to give up just to have a chance to acquire him. They'd practically have to gut their roster. Having said all that, I'm now at least confident in this team putting on a full court press to acquire either Haywood or Camby. Because of their seeming motivation and urgency (plus the assets they do have are perfect to acquire a second tier big like one of those two), I suspect they'll acquire one.

[EP Money Man]

Horrible idea.

Lets just get rid of our best pick and roll passer (Manu) for a pick and roll dunker.

And you know Tony doesn't pass like Nash can.:bang

[celldweller]

Why can't we get rid of Jefferson instead of Manu :bang *cries*

I know...it's just talk but just thinking about it...:(

lol, who in the hell would want him right now? :lol

[mytespurs]

Would having Stoudemire really put the Spurs over the top? Make them better than they are? Would he have to sign a deal before such a trade could occur?

I figure Ginobili would be part of this exchange if it happens....:(:depressed

Don't know if I would like this......:(

[Allanon]

At this point, you lock up Duncan and roll the dice on any other player.

It hurts but it sure hurts alot less than missing the Playoffs and falling into mediocrity.

[DesignatedT]

give them jefferson

[DynastyBuilder]

Here ya go Sarver, I just saved you $2,178,325 and RJ gets to play in his home state.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjgkeyq

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/usaidwhat/sarversdeal.jpg?t=1264573711

[Juanobili]

I can't picture Manu in a Suns uniform.

Just... no.

[exstatic]

They can't have Manu, but if they take hometown boy Jefferson and Splitter's rights, I wouldn't vomit too much at his horrible defense.

[mytespurs]

At this point, you lock up Duncan and roll the dice on any other player.

It hurts but it sure hurts alot less than missing the Playoffs and falling into mediocrity.

I realize that Manu's time as a Spur will end but it's still hard to let go......:(

I don't know if this possible trade scenario would make the Spurs any better than they are now.....which isn't that great........well, I imagine this thread will go 20+ pages......:lol

Should Ginobili stay or should he go???!!! :hat

[TD 21]

I can't picture Manu in a Suns uniform.

Just... no.

How about a buy out and after the mandatory thirty-day waiting period, a return to the Spurs? In all seriousness, I doubt Ginobili would do that. He seems like the type of guy who would be so hurt that the Spurs traded him that he wouldn't come back.

Stoudemire is a fringe top twenty player, but he should be better than he is and manytalk about a loss of intangible players, well this trade would only further that. In theory, it sounds great. In reality, I'm not sure he really solves any of the Spurs problems, he just gives them a ridiculously athletic, talented player to add to the front line. But he's not really the type of player the Spurs need.

[Ditty]

finley,bonner,mason,mcdyess for stoudemire would work numbers wise on the trade machine and maybe throw a fist round draft pick

more minutes for Ian and possibly if realistic Mcdyess could come back to San Antonio somehow

[SCdac]

Shit, the Spurs should aim for a solid 2nd tier/3rd tier center before giving up on Manu as a San Antonio Spur. Pry a guy like Chris Kaman or Kendrick Perkins away, even if it takes a future first rounder.

[InRareForm]

i like it. the duncan effect will make him even better.

[DesignatedT]

Is manu really going to re sign back with us anyway.

seems butthurt about the whole situation

[sananspursfan21]

Shit, the Spurs should aim for a solid 2nd tier/3rd tier center before giving up on Manu as a San Antonio Spur. Pry a guy like Chris Kaman or Kendrick Perkins away, even if it takes a future first rounder.

i only wish the spurs could get kaman.

[DesignatedT]

kaman isnt going anywhere. maybe camby

[spurtech09]

hmmmm why not.....manu ain't the same player he use to be.......bring on stoudemire....suns can take rj as well :)

[Blackjack]

Stoudemire is a fringe top twenty player, but he should be better than he is and manytalk about a loss of intangible players, well this trade would only further that. In theory, it sounds great. In reality, I'm not sure he really solves any of the Spurs problems, he just gives them a ridiculously athletic, talented player to add to the front line. But he's not really the type of player the Spurs need.

:D

If the Spurs are capable and allowed by the CBA to sign him to an extension and flip him for Bosh come the offseason, I'm all for it.

Seeing as I don't think you're able to do that or it would be something the Spurs would do, I'd have no problem declining; he doesn't make them a championship team this year and he's not the type of player you want to lock yourself into with max-type money moving forward.

[FeZZy]

YES!


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yz92cda

[Obstructed_View]

I don't really see how a roster shakeup is going to be good for the Spurs at this point. We know they have the talent to do well, they just aren't playing well. How does plugging x number of new players in now even get them into the playoffs? Strange how many people think it's so ludicruous for me to suggest that two guys who have been on the team for several years actually get some playing time, yet lots of people think a system Antonio McDyess can't understand is going to be figured out by just anybody whose name happens to fit in the ESPN trade machine.

[Johnny RIngo]

Here ya go Sarver, I just saved you $2,178,325 and RJ gets to play in his home state.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjgkeyq

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/usaidwhat/sarversdeal.jpg?t=1264573711

The Suns fanbase would murder Sarver if he tried to pull that shit just to save 2 million. But seriously, this is just speculation. Spurs have nothing the Suns want and I don't really see Amare as the guy that's gonna turn this team around.

On another note, I'm kinda enjoying seeing the FO in panic mode after the way they fucked this team over by standing pat in the summer of '07:

"We're the NBA champions! We don't need Scola!"

Dumbasses.

[Allanon]

I realize that Manu's time as a Spur will end but it's still hard to let go......:(

I don't know if this possible trade scenario would make the Spurs any better than they are now.....which isn't that great........well, I imagine this thread will go 20+ pages......:lol

Should Ginobili stay or should he go???!!! :hat

Well, from what I've read, GINOBILLI!!! is upset at the Spurs for not re-signing him. That one line "I used to think it was like a family but I realize now it's a business" stands out.

There's a very real chance that he walks over the summer and the Spurs get nothing in return for him.

So if trading Manu now nets a player like Stouds, who actually respects TimmyD, you have to consider it.

Of course, maybe the Suns are crazy enough to take RJ? They would need a replacement Center for their small ball after all. :lol

[Kori Ellis]

They can't have Manu, but if they take hometown boy Jefferson and Splitter's rights, I wouldn't vomit too much at his horrible defense.

Ditto.

[timvp]

Damn.

I need to digest this.

[DesignatedT]

give them jefferson and whatever else.

Tony
Hill
Manu
Duncan
Amare

Ill take my chances with that over what we got.


Amares defense really isnt that impressive, but IMO he would already improve our defense by being 610 and athletic, anything that goes against small ball count me in

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Amare's defense sucks.
But I would give up anyone outside of the big 3 for him.

[TD 21]

:D

If the Spurs are capable and allowed by the CBA to sign him to an extension and flip him for Bosh come the offseason, I'm all for it.

Seeing as I don't think you're able to do that or it would be something the Spurs would do, I'd have no problem declining; he doesn't make them a championship team this year and he's not the type of player you want to lock yourself into with max-type money moving forward.

That wasn't meant to be solely directed to you or as a shot at you (I agree with you).

I doubt the Raptors do that trade. If they can't keep Bosh, my guess is he's dealt in an off season sign-and-trade for a true center, so that they can move Bragnani to his rightful position: powerless forward. Besides, there's no chance the limelight-seeking-wanting-to-play-on-a-contender Stoudemire would sign with a Raptors team with no shot at competing for a championship in the foreseeable future.

Completely agree. It's not just the money he's seeking (reportedly 3 years/$60 million), it's the fact that he'll be twenty-eight by next season and has had some major injuries/surgeries (this for a player who relies heavily on his freakish athleticism). This guy could easily decline by the time he's thirty one-thirty two and then what? The Spurs would be stuck (assuming he re-signs for 3 years, then stays after that) with a defenseless version of McDyess, only he'd be making almost quadruple as much? Forget it.

The Spurs need a defensive presence, with length (minimum 6'11''), who can guard the rim, block shots and rebound the ball. Not another player who needs the ball to be effective. This is why Camby or Haywood is ideal. They fit the description of what the Spurs need and they'd both stay out of Duncan's way offensively (Camby in particular, as he's a decent passer from the high post and can make the occasional mid-range jumper).

What I take from this article (which pleases me) is that, like it says, the Spurs realize they have to do something (and probably will), mainly on the front line, but I don't take from it at all that they're getting Stoudemire (even though that's the basis of the article). I'd be beyond shocked if that occurred.

[MaNu4Tres]

This is just wow. Especially coming from Wojnarowski, who is more than credible.

[objective]

This is just wow. Especially coming from Wojnarowski, who is more than credible.

agreed. If it was Sam Smith, Peter Vecsey or Hoopsworld I'd ignore it.

Now I just feel sick though.

[Vic Petro]

I'd rather Ginobili for Bosh than Stoudemire.

[bigdog]

Oh wow. Hmmm kinda crazy.

[vednam]

This would be a desperation move similar to what the Suns did when they traded for Shaq two years ago.

Those kinds of moves basically never work out.


Still, I think it is becoming obvious that the Spurs as built aren't going to do much.


The sad thing is that Ginobili's value as a trading chip has now exceeded his value as a player. 12-13 ppg, piss poor shooting, and the constant fear of an injury isn't going to be enough with Tony battling PF and Timmy declining. Might as well roll the dice.

[Kori Ellis]

Unfortunately Phoenix isn't going to take RJ's contract. They are looking for expiring contracts.. so that would be Manu plus someone like Bonner.

[Libri]

What's the status of his eye injury? If there is still a risk of him losing his eyesight, then the Spurs need to be cautious and take his health into consideration.

[murpjf88]

Amare isn't known for his defense. He's never been the difference maker when the Spurs faced the Suns in the post season. They need a more steady defensive force in the paint and Amare doesn't fit that role. Phoenix has never won anything with him, and I don't think his game will change just because he's wearing a different uniform. Its an interesting thought, but I'm going to have to pass. Atleast management knows they have to make a move before the deadline, and I have confidence they'll get something done.

[erikuff]

Unless we get Shane Battier or a dominant stopper, I really dont see the point in worrying so much over a loss in defense. The Spurs have lost their edge in the defensive department and what better way to compensate with a offensive powerhouse in Amare.

Ideally, a Jefferson for Amare trade would be magical. Bogans is capable of playing a lot of time at our 3 spot, or as Pop likes, could have Manu there. We really just need anything at the moment to get this team going again.

[mingus]

i'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Mahinmi, since that coming out game against NJ, hasn't gotten enough time out on the floor. in the desperate state the Spurs are in you'd think they'd find a way to use him.

And i still believe in RJ. i think he'll pull through.

[Shastafarian]

http://i48.tinypic.com/33w04ma.gif

[objective]

The worst part is that Amare would straight up bail once the season is over. He'd pull a Boozer on the Spurs by telling them he'd re-sign, but come summer he'll be in NJ or Miami or wherever.

The difference between that and Manu is that at least if Manu walked the Spurs would still have Hill and/or Splitter or whomever else they'd have to give up.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Unfortunately Phoenix isn't going to take RJ's contract. They are looking for expiring contracts.. so that would be Manu plus someone like Bonner.

Why would the Suns trade Stoudemire for an expiring if he himself has an expiring contract?

I think RJ + Tiago's drafting rights give the Suns a proven for next year and someone for the long haul. On the other hand, taking Manu this year and him not staying would not be that palatable.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs can't pass up the opportunity to get Amare for Manu especially if Amare comes to terms with the Spurs for the long term.

Manu will get offered more money than the Spurs are willing to pony up this summer. Reason why I say that is because there will only be a handful of superstars available that are actually worth the max, while at least half the league will be significantly under the cap to afford the max players. Most teams will then overpay for 2nd tier players like Manu. IMO That being said Spurs have to really consider trading Manu now and getting something back in return for now and for the future.

[Kori Ellis]

Why would the Suns trade Stoudemire for an expiring if he himself has an expiring contract?

I think RJ + Tiago's drafting rights give the Suns a proven for next year and someone for the long haul. On the other hand, taking Manu this year and him not staying would not be that palatable.

Well I think they want a player to help them. But if they aren't getting a superstar, I think they want expiring contracts so that they can still be flexible in free agency.

I'm not sure RJ is appealing to anyone right now with the way he's been playing.. his contract is hard to swallow for this year and next.

[MaNu4Tres]

It would be a tough pill for Spurs' fans to swallow, but it would be a wise business move especially if Amare agrees to an extension here.

[DesignatedT]

I think phoenix might entertain taking RJ. I mean IMO he would actually be a pretty nice fit there with Nash running point..


RJ needs a snash or jkidd to be effective...

[rayray2k8]

If they're reporting it, then it's not gonna happen.. Move along.

[Chieflion]

We need our fellow Suns posters to weigh in on this.

[HarlemHeat37]

If the FO does decide to take Stoudemire, they have to have a backup plan to make the D respectable..if you aren't going to fix the frontcourt, then you HAVE to help the perimeter D..we like to talk about the lack of size, which is obvious, but our perimeter D is horrible as well, pretty much everybody other than Hill(Bogans occasionally/Hairston doesn't play)..

Still, I highly doubt this happens..I'd be shocked..

BTW, if they're actually willing to move Manu, I hope they make the pitch for Iggy/Dalembert, even though it's unlikely..

[objective]

If PHX got straight expirings + picks/rights and all options are picked up for next year they'd have a total of about $46 million and 10 guys under contract.

Optomistic-high cap scenarios for next season I've seen listed at around $54 million. After cap holds for roster spots, they'd have what, $6 million base to start with for free agenst plus the MLE?

Unless they wanted to get tricky and dump Grant Hill and Barbosa, then they'd have some room.

[Kori Ellis]

If PHX got straight expirings + picks/rights and all options are picked up for next year they'd have a total of about $46 million and 10 guys under contract.

Optomistic-high cap scenarios for next season I've seen listed at around $54 million. After cap holds for roster spots, they'd have what, $6 million base to start with for free agenst plus the MLE?

Unless they wanted to get tricky and dump Grant Hill and Barbosa, then they'd have some room.

They wouldn't have the MLE if they were under the cap.

[blkroadrunners]

Amar'e has really regressed especially since his eye surgery. His defense is not what it was the past couple years. W/ the Spurs defensive woes, Idk if this is the idea trade.

[timvp]

Hmmm ... this is tough to figure out. Amare is a great scorer who could really help save Duncan from wear and tear. He could basically become the go-to scorer and allow Duncan to rest up for when it really matters. Unlike RJ, Amare is selfish enough that he won't be afraid to "get his" even if he has to step on toes.

If a trade involves RJ and keeps the Big 3 intact, I think you have to pull the trigger. The Suns would obviously want some combination of Hill, Blair and/or Splitter to get the deal done. (Though Hill doesn't make much sense since they have Dragic [who might be better already] and Barbosa. Blair and Splitter make more sense.)

The bonus of trading RJ is that the Spurs could either re-sign Amare or open up room under the salary cap to retain flexibility. That could be valuable, especially if everything goes sour and the Spurs need a major shakeup.

Trading Manu for Amare? That's a different story. Without Manu, integrating Amare on the team would be much more difficult since Manu and Amare would be the most natural two-man game. Plus I highly doubt RJ could step into Manu's role as the team's go-to swingman. If anything, RJ would find even less touches with Amare in the picture.

The only way a Manu package makes sense to me is if Manu gets hurt again or if the Spurs really think that Manu is on his final leg and won't make it through the playoffs. If either are the case, swinging for the fences by trading for Amare makes sense -- especially since the window is quickly closing.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Well I think they want a player to help them. But if they aren't getting a superstar, I think they want expiring contracts so that they can still be flexible in free agency.

I'm not sure RJ is appealing to anyone right now with the way he's been playing.. his contract is hard to swallow for this year and next.

Hmm.. I don't know. Manu is not lighting up the stats this year as well.. Plus they already have Barbosa to back up Jason R. I still think that the Suns will push for RJ + Bonner (Mason perhaps if they think Barbosa's wrist problem continues) along with Tiago's rights.

RJ also fits Alvin Gentry's system quite well.

Or possibly its the Manu-fan in me not wanting him to leave the Spurs.

[Kori Ellis]

Hmm.. I don't know. Manu is not lighting up the stats this year as well.. Plus they already have Barbosa to back up Jason R. I still think that the Suns will push for RJ + Bonner (Mason perhaps if they think Barbosa's wrist problem continues) along with Tiago's rights.

RJ also fits Alvin Gentry's system quite well.

Or possibly its the Manu-fan in me not wanting him to leave the Spurs.

Well hopefully they push for RJ + Bonner + Splitter... that's an easy decision for the Spurs.

[Chieflion]

Hmm.. I don't know. Manu is not lighting up the stats this year as well.. Plus they already have Barbosa to back up Jason R. I still think that the Suns will push for RJ + Bonner (Mason perhaps if they think Barbosa's wrist problem continues) along with Tiago's rights.

RJ also fits Alvin Gentry's system quite well.

Or possibly its the Manu-fan in me not wanting him to leave the Spurs.
Barbosa is out for 4-6 weeks after removing a cyst from his wrist. He will basically be out until March. Worst case scenario is that he is out for the rest of the season, making Manu leaving quite the possibility if the trade goes through.

[MaNu4Tres]

If the FO does decide to take Stoudemire, they have to have a backup plan to make the D respectable..if you aren't going to fix the frontcourt, then you HAVE to help the perimeter D..we like to talk about the lack of size, which is obvious, but our perimeter D is horrible as well, pretty much everybody other than Hill(Bogans occasionally/Hairston doesn't play)..

Still, I highly doubt this happens..I'd be shocked..

The only significant perimeter defender that's worth playing 25 plus minutes in the Spurs rotation, and that would be available with what we have to offer would be James Posey for simple expirings. We wouldn't have to really include incentives such as a pick or picks either.


I can't think of any other player that fits both descriptions ( worthy of playing 25 plus minutes a night and being available for simple expirings).

[HarlemHeat37]

The only significant perimeter defender that's worth playing 25 plus minutes in the Spurs rotation, and that would be available with what we have to offer would be James Posey for simple expirings. We wouldn't have to really include incentives such as a pick or picks either.


I can't think of any other player that fits both descriptions ( worthy of playing 25 plus minutes a night and being available for simple expirings).

I agree, but they would really have to figure something..

Who would start at the 3 anyways?..Finley pretty much becomes the only option if RJ is gone and that would be suicide..

[admiralsnackbar]

Wojnarowski is so shamelessly full of it! This will never happen, for the same reason most people on this board know it will never happen: he doesn't address a need (in this case, that of a hustling defensive big), and he's over-priced, to boot.

[DesignatedT]

what if phoenix is asking RJ+Blair for Amare? spurs fans do this?

[Allanon]

The Suns are balking at paying Amare $17 million for 21 points and 9 rebounds.

They would probably faint looking at RJ's $15 million next year for 13 points.

I think a possible interest package from the Suns would be some thing like Manu + Hill + filler + cash...$arver always asks for cash.

[El_Mago]

The Suns have said they are looking for three things if they are going to trade Amare:

1) Expiring Contract
2) Talent
3) Picks

The Spurs:
1) Manu Ginobili
2) George Hill or Blair
3) Splitter Rights or our Number 1 pick this year - it's a late pick...as we know Sarver hates dishing out money for picks....

The Spurs are NOT going to get Amare for a Manu, Mason, Bonner, Finley, Bogans..mix

They have to send Manu and either Hill or Blair....and again...either a pick or Tiago's rights...

Is the juice worth the Squeeze?

[DesignatedT]

The Suns are balking at paying Amare $17 million for 21 points and 9 rebounds.

They would probably faint looking at RJ's $15 million next year for 13 points.

I think a possible interest package from the Suns would be some thing like Manu + Hill + filler + cash...$arver always asks for cash.

spurs wont give up manu+hill. you can book that.

[SenorSpur]

Sign Stoudamire and add yet another horrific defender to this team? Why? The Spurs certainly need an athletic big next to Duncan, but they need to shore up their incredible defensive woes too. Stoudamire probably plays the worst defense this side of Dirk. He doesn't even try. Plus he's a lazy rebounder. This is a sign of a desparate front office and I just don't see how this helps the Spurs.

I've read through the threads and no one has addressed Stoudamire's need to have the ball. And who is going to get him the ball? TP doesn't play well off pick-n-roll right as it is. Are the Spurs expecting Stoudamire to be as effective in a Spurs uniform as he is with Nash as a running mate? I think not.

If the brass still want to do this deal, it had better not include Blair, Hill or Ian. I'm still against it, but if they wanna ship out a combination of Bonner, RJ and Splitter's rights, then re-up Amare for a couple of seasons, I could live with it.

[FkLA]

Why not trade Parker? His stock is way higher than Ginobili's given Manu's decline, and we've all seen that he isnt the type of player that we will be able to rebuild once Tim retires...he's been a big part of the problem this year. Its not even just the plantar fascitis either, dude let his shot regress back to worse than its ever been. I swear every time he shoots a jump shoot I cringe, if I remember correctly his FG% outside of the paint is like 32%.

I think Toronto or the Suns might bite on a Parker+picks/filler for Bosh or Amare.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Raptors aren't going to do anything with Bosh until the Summer, and they certainly won't move him for Parker..they can get better offers..

Parker is also a better player than Amare, so pass..

[objective]

They wouldn't have the MLE if they were under the cap.

my mistake, forgot all about that.

[DesignatedT]

Why not trade Parker? His stock is way higher than Ginobili's given Manu's decline, and we've all seen that he isnt the type of player that we will be able to rebuild once Tim retires...he's been a big part of the problem this year. Its not even just the plantar fascitis either, dude let his shot regress back to worse than its ever been. I swear every time he shoots a jump shoot I cringe, if I remember correctly his FG% outside of the paint is like 32%.

I think Toronto or the Suns might bite on a Parker+picks/filler for Bosh or Amare.

parker isnt a problem.

amare would improve the defense just by making it bigger and more athletic.

anything but small ball would improve this defense. The D is never going to get back to what it was. NEVER. but with Amare he can help anchor the D a little, help on the board, and we still get very good offensive production.

i still wouldnt want to give manu away. but id listen.

[Blackjack]

That wasn't meant to be solely directed to you or as a shot at you (I agree with you).
I know. But seeing as I've been talking about it and just wrote a piece on it, I felt compelled to comment.:D

I doubt the Raptors do that trade. If they can't keep Bosh, my guess is he's dealt in an off season sign-and-trade for a true center, so that they can move Bragnani to his rightful position: powerless forward. Besides, there's no chance the limelight-seeking-wanting-to-play-on-a-contender Stoudemire would sign with a Raptors team with no shot at competing for a championship in the foreseeable future.
My comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek, but if they acquired, extended and them flipped him to Toronto (a team that has little-to-no say in what they get back with Bosh being UFA), I'd be in favor of the trade; Bosh comes to SA and the Spurs get over on Amar'e once again.:lol

The Spurs need a defensive presence, with length (minimum 6'11''), who can guard the rim, block shots and rebound the ball. Not another player who needs the ball to be effective. This is why Camby or Haywood is ideal. They fit the description of what the Spurs need and they'd both stay out of Duncan's way offensively (Camby in particular, as he's a decent passer from the high post and can make the occasional mid-range jumper).
They'd be two solid upgrades to the team, but I don't think Camby will be moved and the Spurs would likely have to take on Blatche's contract as well; which would really gut the team's three-point shooting.

What I take from this article (which pleases me) is that, like it says, the Spurs realize they have to do something (and probably will), mainly on the front line, but I don't take from it at all that they're getting Stoudemire (even though that's the basis of the article). I'd be beyond shocked if that occurred.
I agree. And I don't think we can look at any examples to the past and say they will or won't do something based off of it. This is the closest we've ever seen to panic-mode from the Spurs and it's perfectly understandable: they're investing more money than they ever had and they've got a short window to make good on the investment.

Like I just said to a friend, looks like it's going to be a fun trade deadline for once (somewhat enjoyable in it's novelty and depressing in it's reality).

[blkroadrunners]

I've read through the threads and no one has addressed Stoudamire's need to have the ball. And who is going to get him the ball? TP doesn't play well off pick-n-roll right as it is. Are the Spurs expecting Stoudamire to be as effective in a Spurs uniform as he is with Nash as a running mate? I think not.

Manu-to-STAT duo would work, especially through P&R just like Blair, but that's only assuming Manu's not part of the deal.

[Shastafarian]

Why not trade Parker? His stock is way higher than Ginobili's given Manu's decline, and we've all seen that he isnt the type of player that we will be able to rebuild once Tim retires...he's been a big part of the problem this year. Its not even just the plantar fascitis either, dude let his shot regress back to worse than its ever been. I swear every time he shoots a jump shoot I cringe, if I remember correctly his FG% outside of the paint is like 32%.

I think Toronto or the Suns might bite on a Parker+picks/filler for Bosh or Amare.

Why would the Suns take Parker when they have Nash and Dragic? And no they wouldn't include Dragic.

[Kori Ellis]

Sign Stoudamire and add yet another horrific defender to this team? Why? The Spurs certainly need an athletic big next to Duncan, but they need to shore up their incredible defensive woes too..

Maybe they have conceded that the D isn't going to get better.. so they might as well try to outscore people :)

[timvp]

Why not trade Parker? His stock is way higher than Ginobili's given Manu's decline, and we've all seen that he isnt the type of player that we will be able to rebuild once Tim retires

No way you trade Parker for Amare. TP, when healthy, is better now and has a brighter future.

And while TP isn't a franchise player like TD, he's closer to being a franchise player than Amare is.

[ace3g]

well if the Suns are worried about Grant Hill's recent heel injury, they might want someone that has proven to stay healthy his career (Jefferson), a risk you get with Manu.

The Suns already have a lot of PG/SG type players and PF/C but only a couple of true SF.

Like others have said if the Suns asked for Jefferson + Bonner, I would go for it

[admiralsnackbar]

Why not trade Parker? His stock is way higher than Ginobili's given Manu's decline, and we've all seen that he isnt the type of player that we will be able to rebuild once Tim retires...he's been a big part of the problem this year. Its not even just the plantar fascitis either, dude let his shot regress back to worse than its ever been. I swear every time he shoots a jump shoot I cringe, if I remember correctly his FG% outside of the paint is like 32%.

I think Toronto or the Suns might bite on a Parker+picks/filler for Bosh or Amare.

Considering that half of shooting is in the legs, I don't think it makes any sense to maintain that Parker's steep decline in production this season can be taken independently from his injuries. People don't just choose to start sucking, y'know?

[FvckMavs]

Well hopefully they push for RJ + Bonner + Splitter... that's an easy decision for the Spurs.

We can give Kerr a Jerry West medal if this goes through.

[FkLA]

parker isnt a problem.

amare would improve the defense just by making it bigger and more athletic.

anything but small ball would improve this defense. The D is never going to get back to what it was. NEVER. but with Amare he can help anchor the D a little, help on the board, and we still get very good offensive production.

i still wouldnt want to give manu away. but id listen.

Are you serious? Parker has been a BIG part of the problem. Like I said he let his shot regress to as bad as its ever been after the improvement last year. His defend is atrocious. He doesnt involve teammates. He's been horrible.


Why would the Suns take Parker when they have Nash and Dragic? And no they wouldn't include Dragic.

Nash is what 35? Its only a matter of time before age catches up to him. Dragic, I know is apparently the heir apparent but there's no guarantee that he'll fill the void respectably. Either way Im just throwing the fact out that Parker is the one we should be looking to move. He has been a big part of the problem and is the player aside from Duncan that will get us the best return in a trade.

[Fpoonsie]

Why not trade Parker? His stock is way higher than Ginobili's given Manu's decline, and we've all seen that he isnt the type of player that we will be able to rebuild once Tim retires...he's been a big part of the problem this year. Its not even just the plantar fascitis either, dude let his shot regress back to worse than its ever been. I swear every time he shoots a jump shoot I cringe, if I remember correctly his FG% outside of the paint is like 32%.

I think Toronto or the Suns might bite on a Parker+picks/filler for Bosh or Amare.

Suns have Nash AND Dragic. What use would they have for Parker?

Edit: Whoops...Shasta beat me to it.

[Chieflion]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=980621 -RealGM's take on this article

[Kori Ellis]

Trading Parker to the Suns wouldn't make sense for the Suns or the Spurs. And yes, Tony has been part of the problem this year but to think his decline is because of anything other than injury is a bit odd.

[SenorSpur]

I'd rather have Brendon Haywood.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The Suns have said they are looking for three things if they are going to trade Amare:

1) Expiring Contract
2) Talent
3) Picks



1) should more accurately read,

1) Salary cap relief.

Both are not the same. The Suns already have their best expiring contract in Amar'e "Stat"/"Sun Tzu".

They want someone who can help in getting 1) and also contribute to the Gentry offense in the future.

I am not sure about either Manu or RJ being best bets for the same; but Manu is definitely not a slam dunk choice for the Suns.

[Allanon]

spurs wont give up manu+hill. you can book that.

Spurs will have to give up some young talent with Manu to make this work.

I think Blair's lack of ACL's probably doesn't fit the Suns run and gun.

That leaves Hill and Splitter...both of whom would do well in the Suns style and both are cheap.

RJ's $15 million next year pretty much kills any team looking at the 2010 free agents so he's very difficult to move.

[completely deck]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=980621 -RealGM's take on this article

I love how the Suns fans are insisting Blair is in the mix. :rolleyes

[ezau]

Stupid idea. Most of Amare's points come from an elite passer in Steve Nash. Without a guy who would give him easy looks, how is he going to score? Also, he's just going to take touches off Duncan. Stupid idea actually. I'd rather have them go out and get Haywood or Camby.

[Libri]

The Suns are balking at paying Amare $17 million for 21 points and 9 rebounds.

They would probably faint looking at RJ's $15 million next year for 13 points.

I think a possible interest package from the Suns would be some thing like Manu + Hill + filler + cash...$arver always asks for cash.

RJ went from 20 points last season to 13 points this season. The Suns should be aware that Jefferson is underachieving and not fitting in with the Spurs. They may believe that RJ could thrive in their style of game.

[HarlemHeat37]

It really would be funny if Kerr was a Spurs mole all along..

Pop and Timmy should just take him out to dinner, give him a wink about taking RJ's contract, sell him on the Arizona connection, and dead it..

It would also be even funnier to see the reactions of Suns fans..just looking at RealGM, they're already panicking about imagining Amare on the Spurs..

[DesignatedT]

RJ BLAIR SPLITTER for amare? yes or no? who would do it

[Spursfanfromafar]

RJ went from 20 points last season to 13 points this season. The Suns should be aware that Jefferson is underachieving and not fitting in with the Spurs. They may believe that RJ could thrive in their style of game.

Exactly.

Channing Frye went from 4.2 pts + trash (10.0 PER) in Nate McMillan's immacu'nate' offense to 12 pts/ 44% 3pt/ 14.8 PER) in Gentry's SSOL-II.

[Blackjack]

Hmmm ... this is tough to figure out. Amare is a great scorer who could really help save Duncan from wear and tear. He could basically become the go-to scorer and allow Duncan to rest up for when it really matters. Unlike RJ, Amare is selfish enough that he won't be afraid to "get his" even if he has to step on toes.

If a trade involves RJ and keeps the Big 3 intact, I think you have to pull the trigger. The Suns would obviously want some combination of Hill, Blair and/or Splitter to get the deal done. (Though Hill doesn't make much sense since they have Dragic [who might be better already] and Barbosa. Blair and Splitter make more sense.)

The bonus of trading RJ is that the Spurs could either re-sign Amare or open up room under the salary cap to retain flexibility. That could be valuable, especially if everything goes sour and the Spurs need a major shakeup.

Trading Manu for Amare? That's a different story. Without Manu, integrating Amare on the team would be much more difficult since Manu and Amare would be the most natural two-man game. Plus I highly doubt RJ could step into Manu's role as the team's go-to swingman. If anything, RJ would find even less touches with Amare in the picture.

The only way a Manu package makes sense to me is if Manu gets hurt again or if the Spurs really think that Manu is on his final leg and won't make it through the playoffs. If either are the case, swinging for the fences by trading for Amare makes sense -- especially since the window is quickly closing.

Solid breakdown.:tu

Yeah, my tune changes if it's RJ that's involved. And, as much as it makes sense for the Spurs, putting RJ in that system, in his hometown, wouldn't be as outlandish as it first seems; his game would definitely thrive playing alongside Nash and serve to benefit the team, while also giving them an out with his expiring contract after next year.

And if they can get him without giving up any of the Big 3 or Hill, I think you've got to take your chances; besides being a potential star, he's their only perimeter defender with a good enough game to warrant significant minutes. You add someone like Amar'e to the mix and you're going to have to acquire and/or start playing your best defenders on the wing (there's some dude on the Toro's that comes to mind).

While I wouldn't want the Spurs locked into a max-type deal with Amar'e, it's hard not to see how well he and Manu would mesh and how he'd ease the scoring burden of the Big 3 in the short-term (I do love players that get to the line and can rack up fouls); it'd be nice if they could give it a go this year and enter the Bosh sweepstakes next.

This is just ridiculous.. :downspin:

[FkLA]

Considering that half of shooting is in the legs, I don't think it makes any sense to maintain that Parker's steep decline in production this season can be taken independently from his injuries. People don't just choose to start sucking, y'know?

Come on, we've all seen the games...it isnt about him not having his legs under him. Everything about his shot just looks bad, his form and everything. The shots arent even close most of the time. I know Im not the only one that cringes when he shoots a jump shot, dude has been shooting 30% on FGs outside the paint. Horrible.


No way you trade Parker for Amare. TP, when healthy, is better now and has a brighter future.

And while TP isn't a franchise player like TD, he's closer to being a franchise player than Amare is.

I agree that Amare isnt a franchise player but honestly neither is Parker, not even close actually. Im morso talking about getting Amare/Bosh to win now rather than to build around them once TD leaves.


Trading Parker to the Suns wouldn't make sense for the Suns or the Spurs. And yes, Tony has been part of the problem this year but to think his decline is because of anything other than injury is a bit odd.

To think that it is injuries and nothing but would be naive. There are other ways to contribute if he doesnt have his explosiveness, there are other aspects of the game in which he can be effective. He hasnt done that. Manu has gone through the same thing this season and has adjusted his game and contributed in other ways.

[DesignatedT]

Why is everybody yelling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Allanon]

RJ went from 20 points last season to 13 points this season. The Suns should be aware that Jefferson is underachieving and not fitting in with the Spurs. They may believe that RJ could thrive in their style of game.

Even if you consider his old 20 points, his guaranteed $15 million takes the Suns out of the picture for any of the big 2010 agents.

So do you take a chance at RJ going back to 20 ppg or you take an expiring like Manu, see how he does before you decide and still have a chance to pick up a Chris Bosh?

And you gained a young guard in Hill or a promising big man in Splitter.

[angelbelow]

RJ BLAIR SPLITTER for amare? yes or no? who would do it

I think the best case scenario is RJ and Splitter. Splitter is not guaranteed to come and if Amare walks... then were left with nothing. I think we need to keep either Blair or Splitter... at this point I choose Blair cause we actually have him signed for 2+ seasons where as Tiago may never come.

[cdcast]

Can't see the Spurs with a max-type player like Amare and RJ together--way too
much money for Holt. RJ would have to be a part of the deal.

BTW, how much would the Spurs be under the cap for this summer
if Amare signs somewhere else?

[Allanon]

Can't see the Spurs with a max-type player like Amare and RJ together--way too
much money for Holt. RJ would have to be a part of the deal.

BTW, how much would the Spurs be under the cap for this summer
if Amare signs somewhere else?

Without getting rid of RJ as part of the deal, the Spurs won't have much (if any cap room) since they're already sitting close to the cap without a Manu re-signing.

Due to RJ's contract next year (or Tony's or Tim's), the Spurs don't have many choices outside of re-signing Manu with his Bird rights or trying to upgrade through trading him.

If the Spurs don't trade or re-sign Manu and he just leaves, the Spurs are really screwed for the 2010/2011 season (although RJ then becomes an expiring).

[DesignatedT]

do it for RJ and whoever, not for Manu IMO.

[Sisk]

Well, from what I've read, GINOBILLI!!! is upset at the Spurs for not re-signing him. That one line "I used to think it was like a family but I realize now it's a business" stands out.

There's a very real chance that he walks over the summer and the Spurs get nothing in return for him.

So if trading Manu now nets a player like Stouds, who actually respects TimmyD, you have to consider it.

Of course, maybe the Suns are crazy enough to take RJ? They would need a replacement Center for their small ball after all. :lol

completely agree

[poop]

A'Ma'Re'e'ee would complete the all-offense-No-Defense team Pop has been striving to attain for the last 2-3 years.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

ugh don't do this Spurs! There will be no WCF meeting with the Nuggets if the Spurs do this. Amare is the epitomy of everything that the Spurs are against

[blkroadrunners]

ugh don't do this Spurs! There will be no WCF meeting with the Nuggets if the Spurs do this. Amare is the epitomy of everything that the Spurs are against

The way it's lookin, they may just meet in the 1st round...

[Bruno]

First, it's a damn great news that Spurs FO is still looking at making a major move. Spurs could be better than what they are with more chemistry and health but it's not enough to put them back in the true contender category. A trade will be needed and it's great that Spurs FO hasn't given up on the idea to improve the team.

Now, I don't like the idea of a trade for Stoudamire because of his lack of commitment to play defense. If he could change that, he woudl be an awesome player to pair with Duncan. Sadly, I doubt that playing more defense is one of his priority.

Spurs also have to decide what to do with Ginobili now because it will be too late after the trade deadline. It will really sucks if Ginobili left the team as a FA this summer because Spurs won't have a plan B. There are only 2 good options with Manu:
- Trading him before the trade deadline.
- Keeping him and re-signing him until 2012 or 2013.
Manu has been quite bad this year and his interview show that he likely isn't ready to sign for less money to stay in SA. I still think Spurs keeping Manu is by far the most likely solution but a trade isn't a that crazy option.

[5in10]

Could they technically cut Manu and let him become a free agent?

[Chillen]

Why would the Suns do this? I'll tell you why, just to piss the Lakers off. Amare and Duncan with Parker, Manu and McDyess would be good enough to give the Lakers a potential nightmare. I know they are somewhat rivals, but to trade Amare to the Spurs would be a classy move to a player that has been with their team for many years. Ultimately superstar players can have a say in where they land, Amare probably wouldn't mind playing with Tim. Will the Suns do it, I don't know, something tells me probably not, but the Spurs front office clearly sees they have to make a move. RJ, Splitter would do it.

[poop]

First, it's a damn great news that Spurs FO is still looking at making a major move. Spurs could be better than what they are with more chemistry and health but it's not enough to put them back in the true contender category. A trade will be needed and it's great that Spurs FO hasn't given up on the idea to improve the team.

Now, I don't like the idea of a trade for Stoudamire because of his lack of commitment to play defense. If he could change that, he woudl be an awesome player to pair with Duncan. Sadly, I doubt that playing more defense is one of his priority.

Spurs also have to decide what to do with Ginobili now because it will be too late after the trade deadline. It will really sucks if Ginobili left the team as a FA this summer because Spurs won't have a plan B. There are only 2 good options with Manu:
- Trading him before the trade deadline.
- Keeping him and re-signing him until 2012 or 2013.
Manu has been quite bad this year and his interview show that he likely isn't ready to sign for less money to stay in SA. I still think Spurs keeping Manu is by far the most likely solution but a trade isn't a that crazy option.

are you smoking crack? manu is one of only 3-4 players out there who has been playing with pure heart and relentless drive

[Danny.Zhu]

If we can get him with RJ+Dyess and some sweeteners then I'm ok with that. Otherwise I will be pissed because that will involve Manu.

[Duncan21kid]

Bruno i always read your posts carefully cuz they make sense most of the time, but if you think manu has been playing horribly this season you are on some gooooooood shit :toast

[ezau]

ugh don't do this Spurs! There will be no WCF meeting with the Nuggets if the Spurs do this. Amare is the epitomy of everything that the Spurs are against

No way the Spurs and Nuggets would meet, we simply suck this year. I think I just have to cheer on the Nuggets when you guys face LA in WCF

[BobEX]

I'd trade Jefferson for Amare but only because it gets the Spurs out of Jefferson's final year (assuming Amare opts out). In fact if the Spurs can get anything for Jefferson they should probably do it. What a fiasco that has been.

I wouldn't trade Manu or Hill, though. Manu has been slower after the injuries, but he still plays harder than everyone except Duncan. I couldn't stand trading him for a soft, no defense player like Amare. Hill is still developing and will be a good player in the future; Spurs would regret trading him a year or two from now (especially to a conference rival like Phoenix).

[ezau]

Why would the Suns do this? I'll tell you why, just to piss the Lakers off. Amare and Duncan with Parker, Manu and McDyess would be good enough to give the Lakers a potential nightmare. I know they are somewhat rivals, but to trade Amare to the Spurs would be a classy move to a player that has been with their team for many years. Ultimately superstar players can have a say in where they land, Amare probably wouldn't mind playing with Tim. Will the Suns do it, I don't know, something tells me probably not, but the Spurs front office clearly sees they have to make a move. RJ, Splitter would do it.

Add Amare to the Spurs and the team would end up crumbling with more chemistry problems. Amare isn't necessarily the smartest tool in the shed a far as basketball IQ goes. The way I see it, the Spurs can make this trade and it's still not enough to put them over the Lakers. Hell not even Dallas or Denver

[ezau]

Go if------ Jefferson, Dice for Amare
No if-----Manu, Hill, Blair for Amare

[Bruno]

Bruno i always read your posts carefully cuz they make sense most of the time, but if you think manu has been playing horribly this season you are on some gooooooood shit :toast

Thanks.
My bad, Manu has been awesome this year. He has even made some top10 list: http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/

[stéphane]

I thought we needed to play harder especially on D so I don't really understand how Amare would help fix that. Our main players except TD (finger pointed at Tony and Manu) need to be more consistent and RJ has to wake the F up and realize his carreer is on the line.

[024]

spurs fans love to insult stoudemire's intelligence but forget that he historically owns the spurs. remember that one time where he went like 42pts, 16reb, and 4blks against the spurs in the playoffs?

but i would not make this move if it involves giving up manu + young talent. if it gets rid of jefferson, then yes but if the spurs have to give up manu, it would have to be for a pretty good two way player.

[malcedor]

Could they technically cut Manu and let him become a free agent?

unbelievable. simply unf-ingbelievable.

this may be my first post, but only because i am now so disgusted that i can no longer stomach my own silence.

i have loved the spurs more than anything else in the world (just ask my girlfriend), for as long as i can remember, but now it seems that they are destroying everything they have stood for.

i sincerely believe that our success has come because of patience, hard work, discipline, LOYALTY, and the restraint to NOT act like the GD lakers and just buy up big names to try to win now. i understand that we owe timmy more than we can ever repay, but not at the expense of the kind of philosophy that he has supported , and to some extent been the inspiration for, all these wonderful years.

if manu felt (no pun intended) spurned by the fact that the front office wasn't willing to offer an extension when he was injured, it's only because he had every right to feel that way. who can blame him? he has laid his entire heart and soul into every game he's ever played for us, and been the fuel AND fire that got us through countless tough calls in crunch time. he, and i, thought that actually meant something to the organization and fans. our bad, i guess.

to read that we would even consider trading him for the likes of amare - oops, i mean amar'e - made my stomach turn. and now, for someone who claims to be a spurs fan to ask if we could "technically cut him"?!?!?!?

what has become of us... :depressed

[jiggy_55]

Honestly, i'd do this trade right now if it involved RJ + splitter or blair or bonner..

Lets face it, this team sucks right now.. RJ has simply not fit in and this is just not working out! Small ball and midget ball aren't working out either!

Having a guy like Amare, means he'll play 35mins a game at the PF spot.. I don't care what you say about his defense, it's SURELY better than having RJ or Blair guard the 4 spot.. As neither are big enough, or good enough defensively to stop anyone.. At least Amare has some size, power and hops.. He can block some shots too.. He and Manu would be amazing at the pick and roll.. in the playoffs we could play a lineup of

Parker, Hill, Manu, Amare, Duncan

These will be the guys getting the 30+ minutes.. Manu, Bogans and Mason will fill in at the 2 and 3 even if its a smaller lineup than usual.. i don't see why Hairston can't get some spot minutes either.. Hill will fill in for Parker at the 1.. at center and pf, you've got amare and duncan, and the rest of the minutes go to whoever isn't traded whether thats blair, ratliff, or bonner..

I like this trade cuz I know Amare is not a pussy like RJ, and will get his shots and score when needed.. he'll take a load off of Duncan, and it means no more pussy ball or small ball.. If Pop wants to go big to matchup with long SFs like Lamar Odom, he can even play amare or bonner at the SF position..

right now, the way things are going, I don't see how this deal makes us worse.. it's not like were going to resign RJ in a years time, he stinks, so might as well roll the dice and see if this team can function with Amare.. if it works out, maybe he'd be interested in staying who knows.. if not, I don't see how we've lost much cuz this team simply stinks right now..

[Chieflion]

to read that we would even consider trading him for the likes of amare - oops, i mean amar'e - made my stomach turn. and now, for someone who claims to be a spurs fan to ask if we could "technically cut him"?!?!?!?

what has become of us... :depressed
He is talking about if we trade Manu, could the Suns cut him and let him return to the Spurs. It is not what you were thinking.

[Duncan2177]

Honestly, i'd do this trade right now if it involved RJ + splitter or blair or bonner..

Lets face it, this team sucks right now.. RJ has simply not fit in and this is just not working out! Small ball and midget ball aren't working out either!

Having a guy like Amare, means he'll play 35mins a game at the PF spot.. I don't care what you say about his defense, it's SURELY better than having RJ or Blair guard the 4 spot.. As neither are big enough, or good enough defensively to stop anyone.. At least Amare has some size, power and hops.. He can block some shots too.. He and Manu would be amazing at the pick and roll.. in the playoffs we could play a lineup of

Parker, Hill, Manu, Amare, Duncan

These will be the guys getting the 30+ minutes.. Manu, Bogans and Mason will fill in at the 2 and 3 even if its a smaller lineup than usual.. i don't see why Hairston can't get some spot minutes either.. Hill will fill in for Parker at the 1.. at center and pf, you've got amare and duncan, and the rest of the minutes go to whoever isn't traded whether thats blair, ratliff, or bonner..

I like this trade cuz I know Amare is not a pussy like RJ, and will get his shots and score when needed.. he'll take a load off of Duncan, and it means no more pussy ball or small ball.. If Pop wants to go big to matchup with long SFs like Lamar Odom, he can even play amare or bonner at the SF position..

right now, the way things are going, I don't see how this deal makes us worse.. it's not like were going to resign RJ in a years time, he stinks, so might as well roll the dice and see if this team can function with Amare.. if it works out, maybe he'd be interested in staying who knows.. if not, I don't see how we've lost much cuz this team simply stinks right now..

:tu

[bless1187]

I don't think the Phoenix Suns would not want R. Jefferson since his contract doesn't expire next season "they' re supposedly on the cost cutting mode right now" and they already have a similar play in R. Jefferson in J. Richardson.

I think a lot of fans on here need to look at this team closely and not be biased, M. Ginobili at his best was ALMOST at the caliber of A. Stoudemire, but now M. Ginobili is no where close to the caliber of A. Stoudemire. This guy is one of the better big man in the league and offensively he is one of the best "if not the best". We are basically trading a 32 years old SG for a 27 years old PF/C; and people are saying NO?!?!?

lets say: M. Ginobili, M. Bonner, either T. Splitter or 2010 first round pick for A. Stoudemire

our team would be:

T. Parker / G. Hill
G. Hill / R. Mason
R. Jefferson / K. Bogans
T. Duncan / A. McDyess
A. Stoudemire / D. Blair

it will be a pretty complete team, hoping that R. Jefferson would eventually turn it around.

[Refocus]

Fuck.. tough choice. I doubt they would take RJ but if they did I'm sure anyone would do this in a heartbeat.

[024]

stoudemire on the spurs would be scary though.

[jimo2305]

Spurs consider bidding for Stoudamire

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/20/tard.gif

[jiggy_55]

I don't think the Phoenix Suns would not want R. Jefferson since his contract doesn't expire next season "they' re supposedly on the cost cutting mode right now" and they already have a similar play in R. Jefferson in J. Richardson.

I think a lot of fans on here need to look at this team closely and not be biased, M. Ginobili at his best was ALMOST at the caliber of A. Stoudemire, but now M. Ginobili is no where close to the caliber of A. Stoudemire. This guy is one of the better big man in the league and offensively he is one of the best "if not the best". We are basically trading a 32 years old SG for a 27 years old PF/C; and people are saying NO?!?!?

lets say: M. Ginobili, M. Bonner, either T. Splitter or 2010 first round pick for A. Stoudemire

our team would be:

T. Parker / G. Hill
G. Hill / R. Mason
R. Jefferson / K. Bogans
T. Duncan / A. McDyess
A. Stoudemire / D. Blair

it will be a pretty complete team, hoping that R. Jefferson would eventually turn it around.

This doesn't sound too bad to tell you the truth. But also, the passing on our team would be pretty bad without Manu. Who would get the ball to amare and duncan on a pick and roll? Manu does that so well and thats why most people would love to see them play together as they see RJ as a failed experiment.

[baseline bum]

Only if Pop promises to install seatbelts on the bench... or maybe a childseat.

[Chillen]

A combo of Nash/Ginobili would be interesting to see.

[malcedor]

He is talking about if we trade Manu, could the Suns cut him and let him return to the Spurs. It is not what you were thinking.

ahh... my mistake. i feel slightly better, thank you for the clarification. but still...

if you want to talk about trading other component players (i.e., RJ, bonner, splitter, whatever) for amar'e, fine, but to mention manu's name in such talks is unacceptable.

and whoever posted that manu at his best was "close" to the caliber of stoudemire, that is simply factually incorrect. manu plays a complete game and contributes in every way, on both ends, while scoring more points per minute than amar'e. and scoring is the ONLY thing that amar'e brings to the table, his defense has always been atrocious, and apparently he doesn't care to address that...

[jimo2305]

lol this is not gonna happen guys.. snap out of it..

[bigdog]

I'd do it. Honestly, as much as I love Manu, and he's done some GREAT things for this team, I'd trade away the uncertainty of his future and health for a younger, super athletic Stoudemire. He may be a bonehead, but I think playing under the Spurs coaching staff could help him tremendously. He could be an absolutely sick weakside/help defender in the post, and if he gave a shit, he could be a pretty good man defender down low, too. He is great on pick and rolls, which the Spurs run ALL the time. Sure, a lot of you guys want to get rid of RJ, but he came here to be the 4th option on offense, and that's pretty much what he's been. Sure, his defense isn't great, but he's shown he's capable of defending.

The Spurs keep talking about bringing back the defense they once were capable of playing, but it's clear the Spurs are turning into more of an offensive team now, and Stoudemire would fit that. He's been wanting to get traded to a contender, and I think he would be happy to come to SA. Now, do I love him as a basketball player? Not really, his bball IQ isn't very high, but I think his talents overcome that. I could just be going insane because I'm awake at 4:30 AM, but I wouldn't mind this trade if it was Manu+Splitter/Bonner+pick for Stoudemire.


EDIT: Also remember, Wojnarowski has been known to be pretty accurate in his reports, but remember he was also the one that reported Maggette to SA, and that didn't happen. Look at the title: Spurs consider bidding for Stoudemire. It doesn't mean they've actually talked to Kerr about making this deal.

[baseline bum]

No one in his right mind can think Jefferson is any kind of possibility. The trade would have to be something like Ginobili+Bonner+Blair for Stoudemire. Not to worry about RJ becoming the main swingman timvp: that spot will go straight to Finley.

If the Spurs are really considering Amare, that should tell everyone exactly what they think about Manu's body being able to hold up. It's a good hint that they're not looking to bring him back next summer if true.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

They can't have Manu, but if they take hometown boy Jefferson and Splitter's rights, I wouldn't vomit too much at his horrible defense.

That's what I was thinking, although it's a very long shot.

I really want to keep Hill and Grizzly because they are the future of the team. And if we traded away Manu and Hill, the backcourt looks very thin, and it doesn't solve the problem that RJ and Dice have become.

[Newton]

Fuck that shit. Amare has a sub 80 IQ. No one that god damned stupid should wear the spurs colors.

[ezau]

A combo of Nash/Ginobili would be interesting to see.

Both of them will rack up assists and the Suns would score a lot with Ginobili in the team

[baseline bum]

I don't want to see Manu in Phoenix. They already hate him for sinking their title hopes twice. I can't imagine how pissed they'd be when they find out that wasn't the Manu they traded for. It would be kind of like Sean in Detroit, where it wasn't his fault he wasn't the same player.

[alchemist]

I'm really not sure about this, Tony just isn't a creative passer. Amare near the post with Duncan is going to clog the paint, no room to work with. You would have to move Tim away from the post to make it effective otherwise all you're getting is an expensive player looking at the action (ala RJ).

[holcs50]

Anyone thinking they'll take RJ is kidding themselves...it would definitely involve manu. I would consider it if it was manu/bonner/pick or something like that but I would hate to give away manu PLUS a ghill or blair. Also, I'm having nightmares already thinking about the perimeter of rj,hill/mason, and parker when no one wants to do anything and just like old times everyone stands around with their thumbs up their asses. The RJ situation with his contract is such a bust so far, especially considering how excited and the high hopes all spurs fans had. Maybe he turns it around, he needs to change his mentality though-he needs to attack. IF he could turn into more of a slasher trading manu wouldn't be all that bad considering everything. Amare/TD/blair/dice is a good frontline. Hill and RJ would have to step up big time though to make up for all of manus intangibles and slashing.

All in all though i highly doubt this happens, but like others have said it's good the FO is as concerned about the team as all of us and looking at options. Sad it has come to this, instead of the spurs being around 32-10 or so, right with the lakers-where i thought they'd be especially with the easy schedule so far.

[hsxvvd]

I'd rather miss the playoffs and keep Manu.

Really Sun Tzu? You cannot be serious, he is one of the least intelligent basketball players in the league. But I'd trade Jefferson for a lonely sock.

[hsxvvd]

Could we include cash to allow Phoenix to buy out Manu and have him return?

[alchemist]

Could we include cash to allow Phoenix to buy out Manu and have him return?
no extension + getting traded = not coming back

[snife20]

give them jefferson


i have to agree with you...Jefferson+dice+ian for stoudemire+sf/sg?
Reasons it may work:
1.jefferson would fit in suns up tempo style

2.Dice (veteran presence w/ hill)
3.Time for ian to play major minutes

thats just my two cents.What do u think?

[Brazil]

I really think this is not a good idea at all. Amare numbers are inflated by the suns system and by nash, I don't know how his 20 10 numbers would be translated in the spurs system.

And most important why the spurs would do that when their main problem is the Defense ? With a Manu / Amare trade we are not even sure to improve the Offense and surely we are going to downgrade our already weak defense.

It makes no sense.

Other scenario would be a package of Hill / Splitter (at best, blair at worst) + filler + ?. I'm really not a big fan of the idea.

[timtonymanu]

Bad move if it does go down. Spurs will be downgrading their defensive frontline even more than they should.

However if RJ is part of the deal, I'm willing to let it go through. Im tired of that gutless fuck.

I cant however tolerate seeing Manu traded.

[benefactor]

It can't be stressed enough how getting Stoudemire will not really help if he does not have a good set up player next to him, which is why trading Manu for him is a bad idea. So if they trade away their only decent set up player, then add a player who needs one, is an inconsistent rebounder and has zero interest in playing defense how does that make them any better? I just don't see this trade happening.

As Bruno and others have said, the good thing about all of this is that the Spurs recognize the need to make a move to keep this team in the hunt. Hopefully this one is not the move.

[ginobili fan]

Jefferson + Splitter + 1st round + a choice between Blair,Dice and Ian
= in a heartbeat easily

[Rick Von Braun]

How would you feel if the Suns would like:

RJ
Manu
Hill
Blair

for

Amare
J. Richardson

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhdno2h

No changes, no iffs, AS IS: Would YOU pull the trigger?

[Spursfanfromafar]

How would you feel if the Suns would like:

RJ
Manu
Hill
Blair

for

Amare
J. Richardson

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhdno2h

No changes, no iffs, AS IS: Would YOU pull the trigger?

Yeah..I will pull the trigger on whoever who makes this trade.

[TJastal]

Sign Stoudamire and add yet another horrific defender to this team? Why? The Spurs certainly need an athletic big next to Duncan, but they need to shore up their incredible defensive woes too. Stoudamire probably plays the worst defense this side of Dirk. He doesn't even try. Plus he's a lazy rebounder. This is a sign of a desparate front office and I just don't see how this helps the Spurs.

I've read through the threads and no one has addressed Stoudamire's need to have the ball. And who is going to get him the ball? TP doesn't play well off pick-n-roll right as it is. Are the Spurs expecting Stoudamire to be as effective in a Spurs uniform as he is with Nash as a running mate? I think not.

If the brass still want to do this deal, it had better not include Blair, Hill or Ian. I'm still against it, but if they wanna ship out a combination of Bonner, RJ and Splitter's rights, then re-up Amare for a couple of seasons, I could live with it.

+1 Stoudemire would have the same problem Richard Jefferson has, not enough touches to get a rhythym and nobody to create opportunities for him.

I can't believe the spurs are even considering this.

[jermaine]

I'm sure if Manu is traded the Suns would have to throw in J-Rich on some other spotup shooter! Splitter, Finely, Bonner, Ian would have to work for Stupamire! They might want Blair. Imagine Manu & Stupamire on a P&R! They'll figure away to keep Manu. They was saying lastnite the need a sub for Nash cuz he plays to many mins so they might want Hill.

[JP le Requin]

lets try to add bosh on our roster...he is texan moreover...
bosh will be our gasol but younger and finally we will have our twin towers back and duncan will get the role of drob?

and lets sign kevin durant in 2 years from now....woaaaa i dream so much

[Pero]

I'm sure if Manu is traded the Suns would have to throw in J-Rich on some other spotup shooter! Splitter, Finely, Bonner, Ian would have to work for Stupamire! They might want Blair. Imagine Manu & Stupamire on a P&R! They'll figure away to keep Manu. They was saying lastnite the need a sub for Nash cuz he plays to many mins so they might want Hill.

No, they wouldn't want Hill because they already have Dragic. The only reason the Suns might want Hill is if they shipped out Barbosa too.

Anyway, I'm not sure this trade would be good for the Spurs and I definitely don't see how it would be good for the Suns.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It can't be stressed enough how getting Stoudemire will not really help if he does not have a good set up player next to him, which is why trading Manu for him is a bad idea. So if they trade away their only decent set up player, then add a player who needs one, is an inconsistent rebounder and has zero interest in playing defense how does that make them any better?

Totally agree, the only way I can see it work would be if we're offering some package around RJ and Hill or Blair but the Suns would get much better offers than that, so it's a no-go.

If we trade for Amare it'd be either because we're willing to grand him the extension he wants or if we want his expiring contract to free up some cap space. I don't see why the Suns would do expiring for expirings and we don't really have great picks or assets to entice them. I also see no way we give him the max extension that Pho refused to give him.

[Pero]

Also, I thought the Spurs problem was defense, would bringing Amare in help with that??

[Xevious]

Stoudemire's production would take a huge dip not having Nash spoon feed him. He'd have to work harder for his shots.

And on the other side, RJ would flourish in the Suns system if we were to send him over there (though I know he wouldn't be the one to go).

[Obstructed_View]

Also, I thought the Spurs problem was defense, would bringing Amare in help with that??

Amare's probably a much better 5 than Roger Mason for defensive sets.

[Chieflion]

Amare's probably a much better 5 than Roger Mason for defensive sets.
Anything to stop small ball, eh?

[jiggy_55]

Amare's probably a much better 5 than Roger Mason for defensive sets.

Loooool! Thank you! Somebody here understands a bit of ball..

[mfanatic]

I saw the news this morning and at first I thought, "No Amare this, No Amare that." But Why exactly not? Depending on who we have to give up obviously, but if it doesn't include our Big 4, why the HELL NOT? We literally can not get worse defensivley, it's not possible. This way Pop will HAVE to play Stat and Duncan together. Could you imagine having to guard Manu and Stat on a P&P? Yah his defense is not there, but when have the Suns EVER talked about Defense? With Duncan and Pop Stat will be motivated since he WILL be close to a championship team and he WILL get his touches, which makes Duncans role even less, + on the defensive end. I'm all for this, because realistically we're not getting Camby, nor Haywood for a matter of fact. Even after Duncans days are done, I have NP with Tony, Hill, STAT and Spliteer (Hopefully).

:lobt2:

[TimDunkem]

Anything to stop small ball, eh?
Amare playing the 4 or 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jefferson, Ginobili, Mason, Finley, or an under performing Dice at any big man position.

[Chieflion]

Amare playing the 4 or 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jefferson, Ginobili, Mason, Finley, or an under performing Dice at any big man position.
I agree to that. Some people fail to see it though. And we need a go-to scorer besides Duncan, that can't be disputed.

[mfanatic]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhekcv2

Makes sense on MANY Levels!

[Chieflion]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhekcv2

Makes sense on MANY Levels!
Cool. How many D-League guys are the Spurs going to sign to make up the required number?

[TimDunkem]

Didn't Barbosa just have surgery?

[Chieflion]

Didn't Barbosa just have surgery?
Yep. I posted it earlier. He removed a cyst from his wrist. Out for 4-6 weeks. That is almost till the end of the regular season.

[Obstructed_View]

Mahinmi playing the 4 or 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jefferson, Ginobili, Mason, Finley, or an under performing Dice at any big man position.

Until proven otherwise, this.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

trading Richard Jefferson, Splitter, and filler for Stoudamire makes sense for both teams.

[waly.mg]

Horrible idea.

Lets just get rid of our best pick and roll passer (Manu) for a pick and roll dunker.

And you know Tony doesn't pass like Nash can.:bang

So, why not .....

Parker and Manu for Nash and Amare ?

[ffadicted]

Dude, fuck no. Give up our best playmaker, passer and swingman for a big who can't play defense? Ginobili is the heart of the spurs, and everybody is having a shit season outside of Duncan, not just Ginobili. I can't believe some people are actually entertaining this idea. Or people who think the Suns want RJ lololololol

[spurs_philippines]

mixed emotions about these...

[Pero]

Amare's probably a much better 5 than Roger Mason for defensive sets.

Good point. :lol

[ElNono]

The only concern I have about Amare is his vision. He went through some delicate stuff with his eyes last season, and having a family member that had both retinas detached, I know for a fact you have to constantly keep up with it and it flares up once in a while.

[ducks]

Spurs can't pass up the opportunity to get Amare for Manu especially if Amare comes to terms with the Spurs for the long term.

Manu will get offered more money than the Spurs are willing to pony up this summer. Reason why I say that is because there will only be a handful of superstars available that are actually worth the max, while at least half the league will be significantly under the cap to afford the max players. Most teams will then overpay for 2nd tier players like Manu. IMO That being said Spurs have to really consider trading Manu now and getting something back in return for now and for the future.

dito

[ducks]

trading richard jefferson, splitter, and filler for stoudamire makes sense for both teams.

rj is not expiring will not work
main piece has to be manu

[Creation88]

amare doesn't know what defense is.

[Pero]

Why would Manu make sense for the Suns?

[Chomag]

IF we are to get rid of Manu it should be for a player like Bosh, not Amire. Amire whole game is his freakish athleticism, and when that starts to decline so does the player. Who doesn't play defence. lol

Trading Manu, sure for the right deal, but don't just wate him for nothing.

[DBMethos]

Trade a chronic winner for a chronic loser...sounds like logic fail to me.

[tp2021]

Bye bye Manu, it was fun while it lasted

[Chomag]

What I do wonder is how many posters would disappear from here when Manu is a Spur no longer. Church of Manu is strong indeed.

[Big P]

Why can't we get rid of Jefferson instead of Manu :bang *cries*

I know...it's just talk but just thinking about it...:(

Exactly...i would rather trade RJ & Bonner or Mason for Amare, than Manu.

[Chomag]

Exactly...i would rather trade RJ & Bonner or Mason for Amare, than Manu.

I would too but why do People think the Suns would want RJ. They are looking for expierings such as Manu.

[Creation88]

trade anyone outside Duncan and Parker for CHRIS BOSH.

[Spursfanfromafar]

What "Hardwood Paroxysm" thinks (http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/27/nba-trade-deadline-attention-attention-this-is-a-spurs-amare-panic-mode-red-alert/)of the trade...

[Old School 44]

No to Amare. Like others have pointed out, Amare, like Jefferson need better set up men to be successful. He also needs a faster paced game. I wonder what Amare's stats are like when Nash is out of the line up. Also, he wasn't to happy with the Suns slow down/defense first approach when the Suns acquired Shaq, do you think he'll be happy under the Spurs system? Amare and Pop would clash. I can only imagine how Amare would react when Pop screams at him for missing a rotation. It would be like having Terrell Owens in the locker room.

[TDomination]

lets say we knew for sure that Manu was not going to resign with us this summer, then i would say lets try this trade.

but i still think manu would be resigned and i don't know, i don't think amare solves our problems.

i think our problem is that we are looking for too many big names, i mean its funny how we won a championship with fabricio at center/pf , and even nazr. chemistry > individual talent

i know there arent a lot of available players out there but adding someone who really doesn't solve our problems (defense) doesn't seem like a great idea.

[mexicanjunior]

Make the deal...Manu will only get worse from here...

[Chomag]

lets say we knew for sure that Manu was not going to resign with us this summer, then i would say lets try this trade.

but i still think manu would be resigned and i don't know, i don't think amare solves our problems.

i think our problem is that we are looking for too many big names, i mean its funny how we won a championship with fabricio at center/pf , and even nazr. chemistry > individual talent

i know there arent a lot of available players out there but adding someone who really doesn't solve our problems (defense) doesn't seem like a great idea.

I agree. The Spurs do need a trade t get them back in contention though. Just not this one.

[Pero]

I would too but why do People think the Suns would want RJ. They are looking for expierings such as Manu.

Amare is an expiring.

[sonic21]

i mean its funny how we won a championship with fabricio at center/pf , and even nazr. chemistry > individual talent


the spurs had the big 3 too. That helped.

Right now we're not sure we'll see all 3 playing at an allstar level come playoff time.

[Chomag]

lets say we knew for sure that Manu was not going to resign with us this summer, then i would say lets try this trade.

but i still think manu would be resigned and i don't know, i don't think amare solves our problems.

i think our problem is that we are looking for too many big names, i mean its funny how we won a championship with fabricio at center/pf , and even nazr. chemistry > individual talent

i know there arent a lot of available players out there but adding someone who really doesn't solve our problems (defense) doesn't seem like a great idea.

True but the big 3 then was young in in their primes. Then you could surround them with vets, but now the big 3 are the vets.

[benefactor]

Can any of you Manu dealers explain to me how Amare is going to fit in our system without a setup player that enhances his strenghts? Or how Amare is going to suddenly be interested in being a consistent rebounder and even passable defender?

[jiggy_55]

Has this came up on spurstalk yet?

http://www.woai.com/content/blogs/don/story/Spurs-may-be-involved-in-Amare-Stoudemire-trade/78FLIYcIE0agwBtnSig6hw.cspx

"Spurs may be involved in Amar'e Stoudemire trade
Reported by: Don Harris

SAN ANTONIO - With the Spurs season at a crossroads one of the biggest questions about the team is are they going to make a trade?

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar'e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.

The Nets, Bulls, Heat and Pistons are said to be the front-runners for Stoudamire. The Spurs may be burning up the lines trying to find something that's going to work.

All this after the Spurs fifth loss in six games Monday night. Coach Gregg Popovich has, admittedly, never tinkered with a lineup so much to try and figure out a winning combination. As the Spurs defense continues to struggle, Coach Pop only played eight guys Monday. Pop says the effort is there, just not the execution.

“Of course they're playing hard. And of course they're competing. That's got nothing to do with the losses or the wins here,” maintains Coach Pop. “The guys always compete and they always work hard. We need to shoot the ball better and our defense has to be more consistent. That's what it's all about.”

The bad news: It only gets tougher from here. I was digging deep, trying to find a silver lining for Spurs fans. But what I found inside the Spurs schedule and the road ahead was a dark tunnel with no light at the end.

Follow if you dare... of the Spurs 39 remaining games, only 14 are at home. 25 are on the road. If that's not bad enough, 15 of their 18 losses this year are against the good teams. Teams over .500. And of their 39 left, 27 are against those good teams. They play the Lakers three more times! Only 12 games remain against bad teams.

I hate to say it, but missing the playoffs is not out of the question.

But let's not be all doom and gloom. On a bright note, Sports Illustrated is taking notice of the great Tim Duncan this week. SI calls Duncan the NBA's metronome. The article says Tim is one of the top 10 players in NBA history and that he's better than ever."

[FalleNxWiZarDx]

The idea of a Duncan & Amare front-court is mouth-watering. But as you say, it seems unlikely the Suns will agree to trade him to the Spurs. Besides, as you say, who can the Spurs give up in return to make this trade worthwhile for the Suns? Ironically, the Big Three have been doing OK so far: Manu is healthier than he had been for years and with a bit more game time under his belt could be on fire come playoff time; Duncan is having an MVP year and anyways should never be traded full stop; and Parker - well, he's slowed down this year, but he's clearly injured and I think he has too much upside to consider trading and he's still fairly young. Which only leaves the Spurs possibly giving up RJ with his fat contract and perhaps another good player such as Mason. Not sure what works financially, though.. But despite Amare being one of the arch-rivals of the Spurs in years past, I think it's def worth looking at. He has the nastiness, toughness down low that Duncan and the Spurs need right now

[jermaine]

What I do wonder is how many posters would disappear from here when Manu is a Spur no longer. Church of Manu is strong indeed.

IF HE GO I GO! You may say who cares but that would affect ratings an attendance! I get NBA league pass every year to watch the Spurs but I wouldn't if they trade Manu or let him walk after this year. That wolud affect Time warner so imagine how many people think like that! Time warner would have to make that money up somewhere. Its called the "Manu Affect"! Who's with me? Lmao

[Chomag]

The idea of a Duncan & Amare front-court is mouth-watering. But as you say, it seems unlikely the Suns will agree to trade him to the Spurs. Besides, as you say, who can the Spurs give up in return to make this trade worthwhile for the Suns? Ironically, the Big Three have been doing OK so far: Manu is healthier than he had been for years and with a bit more game time under his belt could be on fire come playoff time; Duncan is having an MVP year and anyways should never be traded full stop; and Parker - well, he's slowed down this year, but he's clearly injured and I think he has too much upside to consider trading and he's still fairly young. Which only leaves the Spurs possibly giving up RJ with his fat contract and perhaps another good player such as Mason. Not sure what works financially, though.. But despite Amare being one of the arch-rivals of the Spurs in years past, I think it's def worth looking at. He has the nastiness, toughness down low that Duncan and the Spurs need right now

Amire would be no better then what Gooden was for us IMO. He would probebly be in Pop's dog house in less then 5 minutes. :lol

[Frenzy]

trade manu !?


http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu270/picturetron_2009/omgwtf.gif

[Chomag]

IF HE GO I GO! You may say who cares but that would affect ratings an attendance! I get NBA league pass every year to watch the Spurs but I wouldn't if they trade Manu or let him walk after this year. That wolud affect Time warner so imagine how many people think like that! Time warner would have to make that money up somewhere. Its called the "Manu Affect"! Who's with me? Lmao

A Spur's fan our a player's fan?

Even if TD was no longer on this team I would still bere there.

[ElNono]

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar'e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.

[FalleNxWiZarDx]

Amire would be no better then what Gooden was for us IMO. He would probebly be in Pop's dog house in less then 5 minutes. :lol


Pop will need to adjust his style....

[benefactor]

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar'e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.

This makes a lot more sense. I wonder what will be in it for us?

[ElNono]

This makes a lot more sense. I wonder what will be in it for us?

We throw in an expiring or two to make ends meet, and get a player and pick?

[Chieflion]

"Amare with the double pump reverse jam, and the foul!" -Sean Elliott

Spurs fans explode with excitement.

"Look, what is Pop doing? He is subbing Stoudemire out. I don't believe it." -Sean Elliott

Nah, I am just kidding, looks like it could be a 3 way deal. I wonder if the Spurs could nab someone good.

[Bruno]

Something to consider is that Spurs fanbase and Spurs FO aren't maybe at all on the same page about Manu.

Last summer, when Bruce was waived, the consensus among fans was that he was still good and that it was a no-brainer to bring him back for the min. Spurs decided that he was done and signed Bogans for the min.

The consensus among fans about Manu is that he is still a big part of the team and that he shouldn't be traded. I don't know what the FO thinks about Manu but it's possible that their point of view is quite opposite and consider that it's time to move up with Manu and use his contract in a trade like they did last summer with Bruce.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Amare sucks. Trading for him would be the final death knell to Spurs Defense Is First philosophy. Spurs are already, in the words of Pop, "Scoring more than we ever have in our lives." Players are struggling but those struggles will become minute once defense fully becomes priority #1 for this team. I can't remember how many times this yr Tim as said "We have to start with improving the defense, everything else will then follow.

I hate this trade. Amare is the wrong piece.

[ElNono]

The consensus among fans about Manu is that he is still a big part of the team and that he shouldn't be traded. I don't know what the FO thinks about Manu but it's possible that their point of view is quite opposite and consider that it's time to move up with Manu and use his contract in a trade like they did last summer with Bruce.

I think this might has more to do with them thinking they're not going to be able to make him a competitive offer as an unrestricted free agent, and the message Manu sent a little while ago saying he would listen to all the options out there when the summer comes around. Spurs might want to part ways to at least get something in return.

[Chieflion]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=980682 -Stoudemire to Spurs trade thread, read at your own risk.

LOL at $20 in my wallet >>> rights to Tiago Splitter.

[yavozerb]

Another article, not sure if its been posted:

Stoudemire could be headed to San Antonio
By Mark J. Miller

There have been rumors these past few days of the Phoenix Suns sending forward Amar'e Stoudemire(notes) off to the Chicago Bulls, New Jersey Nets, or Miami Heat. But now it appears that the San Antonio Spurs have a pretty good chance of landing him and are planning to give it a shot, according to Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski.

Wojnarowski has it that the Spurs have had numerous in-house conversations about trading for Stoudemire (things like "Would we give up Manu Girobili?"). Any way you slice it, the Spurs are interested in seeing if a deal can somehow be done, particularly after losing five of its last six games and falling into sixth place in the Western Conference.

"They know they've got to do something," a source that understands what's shaking in the Spurs' front office told Wojnarowski. "They feel like they've got to at least look at this ... and they are."

Meanwhile, Pat Riley and the Heat may just wait till Stoudemire is a free agent this summer and try to snag him as well as re-sign Dwyane Wade(notes).

[Agloco]

The worst part is that Amare would straight up bail once the season is over. He'd pull a Boozer on the Spurs by telling them he'd re-sign, but come summer he'll be in NJ or Miami or wherever.

The difference between that and Manu is that at least if Manu walked the Spurs would still have Hill and/or Splitter or whomever else they'd have to give up.

I think any team trading for Amare would either have an extension inked before the trade or have an agreement to sign an extension included as a clause in the trade (if that's legal....).

[Dex]

If Splitter IS coming to the League next season, it's not worth trading his rights. Even for Stoudemire.

If he doesn't, however, I fear that will just be the first step to him become Scola 2.0.

[Bruno]

I think this might has more to do with them thinking they're not going to be able to make him a competitive offer as an unrestricted free agent, and the message Manu sent a little while ago saying he would listen to all the options out there when the summer comes around. Spurs might want to part ways to at least get something in return.

The most likely is that Manu best offer in the FA market will be $19M/3 years. It isn't crazy money. If Spurs don't want to offer him that kind of contract, doesn't it mean that they are moving on from Manu?

[Spursfanfromafar]

Something to consider is that Spurs fanbase and Spurs FO aren't maybe at all on the same page about Manu.

Last summer, when Bruce was waived, the consensus among fans was that he was still good and that it was a no-brainer to bring him back for the min. Spurs decided that he was done and signed Bogans for the min.

The consensus among fans about Manu is that he is still a big part of the team and that he shouldn't be traded. I don't know what the FO thinks about Manu but it's possible that their point of view is quite opposite and consider that it's time to move up with Manu and use his contract in a trade like they did last summer with Bruce.

Comparing Bruce Bowen of last year with this year's Manu is unwarranted. Bowen was 38 years old, playing sparingly (but effectively within very limited minutes). Manu is coming back from injury and is not rounding into true form at the offense level beyond a terrific passing game. His explosion and near-rim offense is worse than ever, but not unsalvage-able. His PER is still elite - more than 20 and that means that he is contributing enough for his salary unlike RJ.

The Spurs FO surely knows what it would lose if Ginobili goes away; it loses a player with the X factor and a winning drive, not to mention someone who can change the course of the game in seconds on the floor. Bowen, on the other hand, was clearly at the late fag end of his career and the Spurs FO knew it. The Spurs FO will not throw in the towel with Ginobili as you make it out to be.

From the limited that I have seen in this season, Manu has actually performed even better than TP, despite his underwhelming returns on court. If the Spurs are to contend for a championship, it has to keep its Core 3 intact. Their experiment with RJ has failed so far and thats why he must be the fall guy. Question is, whether RJ with his contract can get them someone who can help in the drive as a sureshot.

[JR3]

Damn.

I need to digest this.

me too...

[Spurstro]

I was digging deep, trying to find a silver lining for Spurs fans.



:rolleyes Don using timvp and SpursTalk yet again.

[jb4g]

RJ and Splitter...do it. RJ would actually thrive in their uptempo offense, and i believe Pop could make Amare play some D here.

[slick'81]

it would have to be for manu for phoenix to entertain it im sure

if sa could guarantee amare resgins and teams up with tony for years to come after timmy it may be worth it.....the fact sa is in the hunt is a intriguing

[ElNono]

The most likely is that Manu best offer in the FA market will be $19M/3 years. It isn't crazy money. If Spurs don't want to offer him that kind of contract, doesn't it mean that they are moving on from Manu?

Once a team like NY or NJ lands one of the top FA next summer, they're going to want to augment their roster with role playing vets. Manu is a shoe-in for that. Guy doesn't need to dominate the ball and can still make everyone play. Health also doesn't seem to be a concern any longer, and unlike Bowen who was 38, Manu is 33...
The question is, if Manu is offered between $24M and $27M for 3 years, do the Spurs try to match?

[KuntryDude]

i personally would love if we were to land Stoudemire. Even though he's had his injury problems himself, I think that acqiring him would revert SA back to how we initially started winning championships. Bring the Twin Towers back!!! Be would be just that much more of a threat.

[yavozerb]

Once a team like NY or NJ lands one of the top FA next summer, they're going to want to augment their roster with role playing vets. Manu is a shoe-in for that. Guy doesn't need to dominate the ball and can still make everyone play. Health also doesn't seem to be a concern any longer, and unlike Bowen who was 38, Manu is 33...
The question is, if Manu is offered between $24M and $27M for 3 years, do the Spurs try to match?

Manu's birthdate may say he's 33, but lets be for real, his body is much older. I think Bowen was able to play for so long cause he didnt get beat up as much on the offensive end like Manu.

[Buddy Holly]

/

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs really need to be careful here. It's painfully obvious that they need to make a move, but they need to make the right move. Furthermore, since it now appears that the "window of championship contention", at least in the Duncan-era, is rapidly closing, the Spurs need to hedge themselves against a total fallout by preserving their young assets. As I stated earlier, under no circumstances should any trade include Blair, Hill, Hairston, or Ian.

As we've seen with the RJ trade, promising acquisitions are never guaranteed to improve the team. In fact, sometimes they fail miserably. I don't have a good feeling about a potential Amare trade. In fact, there is a strong possibility that such a move could set the team back even further, in a lot of ways. Amare simply doesn't fit the Spurs team or their system. THey need to look at more viable options.

While I applaud them for trying, at some point, the FO, and all of us, may have to simply face the harsh reality that this run could be over and that it's time to rebuild. If the Spurs trade away ALL or even SOME of their promising young players, they will have a bloated payroll, a bad team and no assets. At that point, the Spurs could become bottom-feeders for years.

[Bruno]

Comparing Bruce Bowen of last year with this year's Manu is unwarranted.

Read better, I'm not comparing them.

I'm just saying that there are sometimes a huge gap between how Spurs' fans valuate a player and how the FO does. It's quite logical because a fan is sentimentally attached to a player who brought great moments in his fan life while the FO doesn't care about the past.

There was this gap last summer about Bowen. While Manu isn't at the same stage of his career than Bruce, it's possible that there is a gap about Manu too.

[Mal]

This may be worth a shot. Give them Gino and try with Amare even if he opts out this summer. Same stuff with, Gino who could leave this summer. Gino is being useless recently. Better to do something crazy than let watch this shit last longer.

[alchemist]

:rolleyes Don using timvp and SpursTalk yet again.
What's this stupid beef with this forum and the local media? I never understood it.

[ElNono]

Manu's birthdate may say he's 33, but lets be for real, his body is much older. I think Bowen was able to play for so long cause he didnt get beat up as much on the offensive end like Manu.

I agree that Bowen had a privileged body. I also think Manu will probably switch from being a full-on penetrator to more of a shooter and playmaker. While his shooting has been off this season so far, it's not something you lose with age. And we all know about his playmaking abilities. Again, as a seasoned vet next to peaking superstar, I think he's extremely valuable.

[silverblackfan]

I don't like the trade idea. It seems to be similar to the Gooden deal where the offense gets better but the defense gets worse. I am not convinced that Amare is any smarter than Gooden and could pick up the system any better.
Add in the extra money and losing Manu, who is a winner, and it really starts to hurt.
Now throw the Spurs into a 3 way deal and look around, and it starts to make more sense. I would hate to lose Blair, though. He is already showing us that he will be a force to be reckoned with.

[Bruno]

Once a team like NY or NJ lands one of the top FA next summer, they're going to want to augment their roster with role playing vets. Manu is a shoe-in for that. Guy doesn't need to dominate the ball and can still make everyone play. Health also doesn't seem to be a concern any longer, and unlike Bowen who was 38, Manu is 33...
The question is, if Manu is offered between $24M and $27M for 3 years, do the Spurs try to match?

I don't see at all a team below the cap spending his cap space on Manu.
Teams work for years to create some cap space, I don't see one spending it on a 33 years old player.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Read better, I'm not comparing them.

I'm just saying that there are sometimes a huge gap between how Spurs' fans valuate a player and how the FO does. It's quite logical because a fan is sentimentally attached to a player who brought great moments in his fan life while the FO doesn't care about the past.

There was this gap last summer about Bowen. While Manu isn't at the same stage of his career than Bruce, it's possible that there is a gap about Manu too.

Na.. You didn't read what I was saying, better..

I was not comparing Bowen and Manu as players..but their situations.

I am saying that the "gap" between the fans' expectations and the FO's expectations of Manu this year is far lower than that of Bowen last year. So, even if Manu is under-performing, he is bringing in so much that the FO will not give him away as it did Bowen.

[Buddy Holly]

What about this plus Splitter and draft picks or money.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjsvafp

They'd probably waive Finley who we'd resign.

[ElNono]

Read better, I'm not comparing them.

I'm just saying that there are sometimes a huge gap between how Spurs' fans valuate a player and how the FO does. It's quite logical because a fan is sentimentally attached to a player who brought great moments in his fan life while the FO doesn't care about the past.

There was this gap last summer about Bowen. While Manu isn't at the same stage of his career than Bruce, it's possible that there is a gap about Manu too.

BTW, I agree with this Bruno. And eventually, I know Manu will have his number retired by the Spurs, but right now the Spurs are looking at a business decision.

[Spurstro]

What's this stupid beef with this forum and the local media? I never understood it.

I probably should have left it alone....don't want to hijack the thread.

Short answer...they have ripped off stuff from here and don't give the credit. I'm not saying that Kori or LJ want the credit though.

[alchemist]

The Spurs really need to be careful here. It's painfully obvious that they need to make a move, but they need to make the right move. Furthermore, since it now appears that the "window of championship contention", at least in the Duncan-era, is rapidly closing, the Spurs need to hedge themselves against a total fallout by preserving their young assets. As I stated earlier, under no circumstances should any trade include Blair, Hill, Hairston, or Ian.

As we've seen with the RJ trade, promising acquisitions are never guaranteed to improve the team. In fact, sometimes they fail miserably. I don't have a good feeling about a potential Amare trade. In fact, there is a strong possibility that such a move could set the team back even further, in a lot of ways. Amare simply doesn't fit the Spurs team or their system. THey need to look at more viable options.

While I applaud them for trying, at some point, the FO, and all of us, may have to simply face the harsh reality that this run could be over and that it's time to rebuild. If the Spurs trade away ALL or even SOME of their promising young players, they will have a bloated payroll, a bad team and no assets. At that point, the Spurs could become bottom-feeders for years.
What long term contracts do the Spurs have? Hill and Blair are the only one's extending beyond Duncan's contract.

[ElNono]

I don't see at all a team below the cap spending his cap space on Manu. Teams work for years to create some cap space, I don't see one spending it on a 33 years old player.

We'll see then...

[Agloco]

unbelievable. simply unf-ingbelievable.

this may be my first post, but only because i am now so disgusted that i can no longer stomach my own silence.

i have loved the spurs more than anything else in the world (just ask my girlfriend), for as long as i can remember, but now it seems that they are destroying everything they have stood for.

i sincerely believe that our success has come because of patience, hard work, discipline, LOYALTY, and the restraint to NOT act like the GD lakers and just buy up big names to try to win now. i understand that we owe timmy more than we can ever repay, but not at the expense of the kind of philosophy that he has supported , and to some extent been the inspiration for, all these wonderful years.

if manu felt (no pun intended) spurned by the fact that the front office wasn't willing to offer an extension when he was injured, it's only because he had every right to feel that way. who can blame him? he has laid his entire heart and soul into every game he's ever played for us, and been the fuel AND fire that got us through countless tough calls in crunch time. he, and i, thought that actually meant something to the organization and fans. our bad, i guess.

to read that we would even consider trading him for the likes of amare - oops, i mean amar'e - made my stomach turn. and now, for someone who claims to be a spurs fan to ask if we could "technically cut him"?!?!?!?

what has become of us... :depressed

It's a business, plain and simple. The sooner people realize this, the less stressful this will all become. We are seeing first hand what happens when we put loyalty above good business sense. The team is dysfunctional and a non-issue in terms of contending for a title, and all owed to the belief that an expensive, rusty piece would make all the difference.

No, the Spurs owed Manu nothing and were quite correct for taking his extension off the table. As a good business owner you do this when your horse runs off and gets himself injured playing for his national team. The Spurs were in no way obligated to reward Manu for his selfish behavior.

It's a business.....get over it.

[CGD]

I would too but why do People think the Suns would want RJ. They are looking for expierings such as Manu.

No, Suns are looking for value. Amare's salary comes off the books this summer. Suns effectively have a "Bosh problem."

I think this is either a multi-team trade scenario, or a bilateral trade but one that has us sending over many of our young guys.

[hater]

losing Manu, getting Amare. I just don't see the upgrade

I we somehow could keep Tony + Manu I am for this 110%

[SenorSpur]

We throw in an expiring or two to make ends meet, and get a player and pick?

That would make a helluva lot more sense.

[xtremesteven33]

Ship Jefferson out ASAP

anyone thats willing to take him

[Pistons < Spurs]

I don't know what would be stranger, Manu in a Suns jersey or Amare in a Spurs jersey.

Crazy.

But if I'm the Spurs, I do this deal. Manu's better days are far behind him. And it sounds like he's planning on being a free agent and checking out other teams anyways. He's 32 and has a ton of miles on his legs at this point. Maybe it's just time to part ways with him ... as difficult as that may be emotionally for fans.

Amare, while a knucklehead, is still one of the better big men in the league. Offensively, he's good for 20 on any given night, and is quite capable of making it 30. While not a terrific rebounder for his size, the 8 or 9 that he gets you are more than acceptable. He's carrying a 55% field goal average and is also a good FT shooter.

It might not be the ideal or perfect trade. But you can't argue that Timmy and Amare would be a hell of a tough tandem to stop. Amare might not bring half of the intangibles that Manu has brought over the years but he's a more dominant player and one that would create tougher matchups for opponents.

This would mean that at least one of RJ, RMJ, Bogans or Hill would need to step up. And Parker too. Maybe this will be a wake up call for him to get it together. His numbers are down across every major statistical category this year.

Clearly things aren't perfect with the Spurs right now. Maybe the old way of doing things isn't going to work anymore as players get older. And Amare might not make things any better, but what the hell, give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, he's gone after this year. If it does, maybe you get him to resign for a 3-5 year deal. If nothing else, at least the organization is looking into possibilities, not just sitting on their asses hoping for the best.

My biggest question, is why would the Suns do this deal. Splitter might never come the NBA, and draft pick they receive wouldn't be a lottery pick and Manu would be gone after this season. I'd honestly think they'd be able to get a better deal if they tried.

[yavozerb]

Alot of teams my be hesitant to even go after Amare since most want to wait and see if they have a chance for wade ,lebron,or bosh. This may help the spurs cause who is to say that Amare waives that final year worth 17 mil.

[hater]

IMO RJ for Amare would benefit both teams

[Pero]

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar'e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar'e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.


Now that makes more sense.

[Bruno]

I am saying that the "gap" between the fans' expectations and the FO's expectations of Manu this year is far lower than that of Bowen last year. So, even if Manu is under-performing, he is bringing in so much that the FO will not give him away as it did Bowen.

I don't know for you but, I, as a fan, and even if I think Manu has been quite bad this year, wouldn't trade Manu. I consider him as nearly untradable and that he should end his career in SA.

Wojnarowski is a damn serious source. He isn't in the Hoopsworld category, so this rumor could be legit. If Spurs are considering trading Manu for Stoudamire (who isn't that great), there is a huge gap between how I value Manu and how the FO values it.