The Altitude

[RobinsontoDuncan]

So, are the Spurs going to be able to take 1 of the next 2 in denver with their altitude? We killed them yesterday, but Karl may respond the same way Phill Jackson responded and shut us down. Can we prevent them from scoring on the break in the Pepsi Center?

[GrandeDavid]

I think the altitude thing is a bit overrated. I'm a marathoner, for example, and recently ran in Gramado, Rio Grande do Sul in southern Brazil. Very hilly, lush landscape, and I had some awesome runs and bike rides. I felt better than in San Antonio or in my home in more northern (and flatter) Brazil. The altitude down there is over a mile high. Your body will break through the fatigue wall. So will Tim Duncan's and his teammates'. Nobody will die or pass out on the court.

Look, will it affect the Spurs? Probably, but I think they can overcome it. I just don't see Denver's altitude determing the outcome of this series. I could see lots of us speculating about it should they lose Game 3, but even if they do, I'd expect the Spurs to adjust and take Game 4.

Having said that, I don't look for the altitude to bring down the boys in silver in black. Also, I am certain that they'll at least split the next two.

[CosmicCowboy]

Typically altitude acclimation is about a 2 day process and the body adjusts...don't forget that the Denver players have been in San Antonio for a week and will have to go through the same thing...It's not like the Denver players are 10th generation Sherpas...I expect the Spurs to fly up early (Friday morning?) to get acclimated as well...but either way I see game 3 as the big one to steal home court back and put the Nuggets back on their heels...

[Solid D]

There will be heaviness in their chests early in the game until they get used to it. It's pretty much the norm, as reported by most players when they play in Denver. It is going to be helpful for the Spurs to be rested. The killer games are the ones where teams have to play in Denver on the 2nd games of a "back-to-back". In those games, there is little time for acclimation.

If the team spends a couple of days there, that will help some with the acclimation.

[Solid D]

Sorry, I didn't see your post Cosmic. What he said.

[GrandeDavid]

Cosmic and Solid D, both excellent posts! Again, I think we can all agree that having a small gap between games 3 and 4 will help. I like what you point out about Denver having also been in San Antonio for a little while, so they'll physically have to go through the same process.

[dcole50]

yeah, the whole altitude thing is blown out of proportion. conditioning is the only thing that may cause some slight problems. running up and down the court at that altitude is hell on the lungs.

[bejanicek]

here is a good post from a denver fan about the altitude and sounds like he knows what he is talking about.


heading into denver i thought it might be fun to talk about the effect of altitude on the series. I should say:

1) i am a mountain climber and by the way love colorado and good snowboarding too!
2) went to college in california near the mountains and spent a lot of time up in shasta, the cascades, rainier, tetons, sawtooths and such
3) have some knowledge about altitude and therefore acclimatization and its timetables
4) of course everyone is different so this is just in general
5) by the way downundernugget (australia?) i am a big rugby player and fan. played in college on scholarship and am playing for the city right now in the premier club league. don't know if you are into rugby or not? great sport

normally it takes someone about 10 days to adjust 80% to the altitude change they are in and a month for 95%, provided it is a significant change. as you can see you make most of your adjustment in the first few days and then progress slows out. now going away from altitude it takes about the same amount of time to adjust as going into it. i am figuring denver has been in san antonio for at least 5 days maybe 6. so the nuggs have already lost some of the benefit they would have had against the spurs. of course the spurs are going into game three having probably only spent a night or two in denver and so will not be near totally climatized but at about 30% for a day or 45% for two. but the nuggs will have to reacclimatize some too even though they live there. living there gives some benefit but that goes away quickly when you leave that environment plus when you factor that the players don't spend a lot of extended time there as well being in and out of town for road games as well.
the second thing you have to look at is at what altitude does the air start to affect you? most literature suggests 8000ft, yet denver is 5000ft. does this mean it won't affect the teams...no. but when you factor in that the nuggs have to reacclimitize and are not that much ahead of the spurs in adjusting to the thin air and it is not that high, i would say it will have an affect but a very very small one.
should be fun to watch and looking forward to thought and opinions on this...

[bonesinaz]

I live at about the same elevation as Denver.

I agree with everyone here that it won't be that much of a factor this time around for 2 seasons. 1. the Spurs are getting a lot of rest. 2. our bench just got deeper last night with Rasho and DBrown. The only way it will make a difference is if the nuggets are running the entire game and I don't think that will happen.

The physiological change to your circulatory system living at a higher elevation is called secondary polycythemia. The body will compensate for less O2 by making RBCs to carry more. That change takes a few months.

[spurster]

Some years ago I stayed with some friends at the Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs (6,000 ft. altitude). The first time I jogged (after first night there) I was gasping hard for air. I went my usual 2 or 3 miles, but had to stop a few times to gasp especially hard. The second time 2 days later, I was still gasping some, but it was much, much better. I could do my normal pace, though still breathing hard.

Based on this vast experience, I would guess the Spurs should do running sessions today and tomorrow to acclimate, and save some gas Saturday for the game.

[Dave McNulla]

i'd guess it'll be less of a factor since the spurs have time to prepare for it.

if i were pop, i'd take them for some runs today and tomorrow at the ski slopes (about 9k feet high) and they'll feel like they are drinking oxygen at 5k in denver.

[slayermin]

Pop should know how to deal with altitude stuff since he went to the Air Force Academy.

Isn't Colorado Springs around the same elevation as Denver?

[boutons]

"have time to prepare for it"

If the altitude is considered a problem by Pop, I figure the Spurs would be in Denver Thursday getting in some workouts in the 48 hours before the game to allow max time for acclimitization. The Nuggets sure seem to think it's an important advantage.

[rascal]

The spurs have gone to Denver many times and have won in the past.

The more important things to consider is how motivated and pumped up for a strong effort Denver will be with their first home playoff game and if the spurs come in flat after their easy blowout win.

[Jimcs50]

Since Denver spent almost a week in SA, I think they will have a hard time adapting as well.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

I live at about the same elevation as Denver.

I agree with everyone here that it won't be that much of a factor this time around for 2 seasons. 1. the Spurs are getting a lot of rest. 2. our bench just got deeper last night with Rasho and DBrown. The only way it will make a difference is if the nuggets are running the entire game and I don't think that will happen.

The physiological change to your circulatory system living at a higher elevation is called secondary polycythemia. The body will compensate for less O2 by making RBCs to carry more. That change takes a few months.

Bones, I hopefully look to the day when you will respond to one of Jim's posts with the phrase, "Damnit, Jim, I'm a doctor!" (Trekkie reference).

[boutons]

The dope of choice by professional cyclists to thicken blood and increased oxygen carrying capacity is EPO.

Some cyclists also go to special training centers where the get blood transfusions, hyper-baric chambers, and all kinds of weird-ass stuff.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs haven't flown out yet. So they won't get as much time to acclimate. I don't think it's going to make much of a difference either which way, but just so you know.

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs won Game 3's in 1990 and 1995 in Denver.

Granted, those were much weaker Denver teams than this one. But, it goes to show that the thin air is not insurmountable.

[wildbill2u]

"have time to prepare for it"

If the altitude is considered a problem by Pop, I figure the Spurs would be in Denver Thursday getting in some workouts in the 48 hours before the game to allow max time for acclimitization. The Nuggets sure seem to think it's an important advantage.

Where the altitude will come into effect is in the 4th quarter. Karl is a shrewd coach and has made Denver into a running team which could give them an advantage against a lot of teams--but we have a strong deep bench and one that can run as well as play half court.

It will be tough but we can win in denver.

[duncan2k5]

Its way overrated guys. its not like Camby will be pinching Duncan's nose shut. its just like me when i come up to the states and play ball outside in the cold winter. the cold air burns my lungs and i have to breathe out my mouth more, but the quality of my game doesn't fall off and after about 5 mins its not even on my mind.

[Phonzie20]

I think the altitude thing is a bit overrated.

I agree. But it is still a home game. another factor.

[Phonzie20]

The Spurs won Game 3's in 1990 and 1995 in Denver.

Granted, those were much weaker Denver teams than this one. But, it goes to show that the thin air is not insurmountable.

diff roster... no.

[samikeyp]

I agree. But it is still a home game. another factor.

True...I put more stock in that than the altitude.

[Solid D]

diff roster... no.

Blair Rasmussen = Kenyon Martin... so not too different. :hat

Sorry Phonz.

[Phonzie20]

Blair Rasmussen = Kenyon Martin... so not too different. :hat

Sorry Phonz.

now that just hurts....

[Solid D]

:lol

I'm sorry, he had a "kick me" sign on his back today. Jus' playin'.

[Dre_7]

its not like Camby will be pinching Duncan's nose shut.

I dunno, they did get away with alota stuff in game 1. ;)

[SilverPlayer]

I wonder how much the altitude is mitigated by something as simple as the building air conditioner.

You know how you walk into a building that is being pumped full of air conditioned air you can feel it rush out towards you. This is because the air is denser inside most building because we are constantly pumping air into them. This would mean that in a large sports arena it might logically mimic the atmospheric air density of lower altitudes, and thus mitigate the altitude problem altogether. Who knows?

[MadDog73]

I wonder how much the altitude is mitigated by something as simple as the building air conditioner.

You know how you walk into a building that is being pumped full of air conditioned air you can feel it rush out towards you. This is because the air is denser inside most building because we are constantly pumping air into them. This would mean that in a large sports arena it might logically mimic the atmospheric air density of lower altitudes, and thus mitigate the altitude problem altogether. Who knows?


Uhhh, no. Unless the building is pressurized, the air has the same "density" inside and out. If you feel air rush towards you, it's probably because there's a fan blowing it out (common in many buildings to keep hot air out).

[SilverPlayer]

hey its just a musing I had....no need to get your panties in a wad.

Btw if you look at this link, you will clearly see that Air conditioning systems clearly do affect indoor air pressure, and that the EPA recomends a slightly higher air pressure inside to prevent things like Radon gasses from entering your home if their is radon in the surrounding soil. You should do a little investigation before you dismiss something out of hat.
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/Bldg/pubs/iaq_imp/
http://www.girlpower.gov/adultswhocare/images/Otherlogo/nbc.jpg

[MeAndBobThrowChairs]

nobody ever complained about the altitude in denver until the broncos started winning games. its the same with the nuggets, the altitude wont be the reason they'll win at home if they do.

[CosmicCowboy]

Uhhh, no. Unless the building is pressurized, the air has the same "density" inside and out. If you feel air rush towards you, it's probably because there's a fan blowing it out (common in many buildings to keep hot air out).

uhhh...virtually all commercial building A/C systems are designed to be slightly pressure positive but the pressurization is insignificant to the air density as it is normally just a fraction of and inch w/c. but they ARE pressurized...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

this should be a classic thread because the word "acclimate" was used so many times, i bet it was more than any other spurstalk thread in history

but yeah this altitude crap is blown out of proportion, its not like every colorado based team has been dominant from day 1

[RobinsontoDuncan]

thanks for the input everyone, I think the most convincing thing I read here was that the Broncos also have the same atmosphere, but I have seen very bad teams beat the crap out of Denver (Oakland) at home, and football players run just as much as basketball players.

[bonesinaz]

Well I would just add that many athletes will train at a higher elevation to get a slight edge. Their bodies get the same effect as blood doping, but it is legal and natural.

The nuggets have been in and out of Denver so much that it probably won't give them an edge physically to go home. The edge would have been in SA when they had the ability to run like supermen because of increased O2 carrying ability, but we all know that didn't happen.

My husband and I first noticed that we felt like super athletes when we went to Vegas and ran around (from High to low elevation).

[Phonzie20]

Well I would just add that many athletes will train at a higher elevation to get a slight edge. Their bodies get the same effect as blood doping, but it is legal and natural.

The nuggets have been in and out of Denver so much that it probably won't give them an edge physically to go home. The edge would have been in SA when they had the ability to run like supermen because of increased O2 carrying ability, but we all know that didn't happen.

My husband and I first noticed that we felt like super athletes when we went to Vegas and ran around (from High to low elevation).

Don't judge by Vegas.

[bonesinaz]

Don't judge by Vegas.

The only reason I mentioned Vegas is because it is close and a much lower elevation than where I live. Take your pick of any city closer to sea level, it is the same for Phx, St.louis, Chicago. Now do you get my point?

[Jimcs50]

Salt Lake City is almost as high and the Spurs had what, a 15 game win streak going with them?

No problem, 4000 ft is not bad, now if it were 7-9,000 ft, then you would have a problem.

[Phonzie20]

The only reason I mentioned Vegas is because it is close and a much lower elevation than where I live. Take your pick of any city closer to sea level, it is the same for Phx, St.louis, Chicago. Now do you get my point?

OK, point taken.

[samparks23]

Since Denver spent almost a week in SA, I think they will have a hard time adapting as well.


It aint like that, once your lungs and cells get used to the altitude, it will take a long time for them to adapt to sea level. That is why olympic athletes train in Colorado Springs, because of the altitude.

I remember, our old Nuggets team, had the other team believeing the altitude was worse then it was, which was how we blew so many teams out and scored 130 plus every home game