Duncan looks like a shell of his earlier self

[itzsoweezee]

It's last year all over again. Except this time, he didn't even make it to the all-star break. He's got no lift in his legs. Defensively he's not a presence and offensively, he can't score near the basket.

[Johnny RIngo]

It's last year all over again. Except this time, he didn't even make it to the all-star break. He's got no lift in his legs. Defensively he's not a presence and offensively, he can't score near the basket.

I'd be more worried about the fact that Ginobili's turned into one of the worst shooters in the league.

[crc21209]

It's last year all over again. Except this time, he didn't even make it to the all-star break. He's got no lift in his legs. Defensively he's not a presence and offensively, he can't score near the basket.

You're kidding right? The man has ONE bad game and you're gonna hate on him...fuck off. TD has been the Spurs most consistent player this season.

[itzsoweezee]

You're kidding right? The man has ONE bad game and you're gonna hate on him...fuck off. TD has been the Spurs most consistent player this season.

you obviously haven't been watching the past six games. he's not nearly as good as he was earlier this year.

[crc21209]

you obviously haven't been watching the past six games. he's not nearly as good as he was earlier this year.

He's not the Spurs problem....

[timtonymanu]

im hoping it's just a slump and not health issues.

[TheChillFactor]

I wonder if it could possibly help to put a FUCKING 7 FOOTER next to him????!!!!???

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan was fine for the most part..he should have shot more, he was 5-10..

Also, the majority of Denver's points came from action outside of the paint..there bigs were also shooting Js, which Duncan obviously can't guard at this point of his career, which is part of the reason we desperately need another interior presence next to him..

[itzsoweezee]

He's not the Spurs problem....

spurs aren't going anywhere without a dominant duncan. regardless of how parker, ginobili, mason, etc. play.

[GrandeDavid]

The Spurs are not very good, that's for certain. Slightly above average with a swollen payroll. I appreciate the ownership's investment but am highly disappointed in his return and for all of the fans. But, so goes it. Its only sports, I suppose.

[crc21209]

spurs aren't going anywhere without a dominant duncan. regardless of how parker, ginobili, mason, etc. play.

I think we've all seen what TD turns into when Playoff time rolls around...like I said...I'm not worried about him turning it on...

[5in10]

Blair was great today WTF is pop thinkjng not playing this kid.

[DesignatedT]

manu looks like shit. he has done nothing to deserve a contract extension and he needs to start being help accountable now.

he cant shoot. cant drive. cant get to the free throw line. pathetic

these were the kind of games manu used to take over.

[Ice009]

manu looks like shit. he has done nothing to deserve a contract extension and he needs to start being help accountable now.

he cant shoot. cant drive. cant get to the free throw line. pathetic

these were the kind of games manu used to take over.

If Manu was on the Lakers, Cavs or one of those teams you'd see his free throws go through the roof.

[AnthonyM]

uwTJ08lb73Q

[spurtech09]

I don't think the problem is duncan.....it would be nice if duncan had some help

[Josepatches_]

Duncan isn't look like last year.
But today he didn't touch the ball enough times.Pop,Hill,Manu or all them have to give the ball to our best player.
We can lose the games but Hill or RJ cant shoot more than Duncan

[jaffies]

Listen Kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at Wake Forest. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Shaq and Howard up and down the court for 48 minutes.

[Budkin]

Early games suck for Duncan... thank God they almost never happen.

[tim_duncan_fan]

It's not Duncan's fault everybody thinks this is the Warriors. How many touches does Duncan get these days? It's ridiculous.

[crc21209]

early games suck for duncan... Thank god they almost never happen.

+10000000

[venitian navigator]

1)We don't have energy.
2)We need young legs.
3)We need a 7 footer that can run and play defense.

so :

1) maybe a trade for an enforcer like Maggette or Nocioni ?
2) why don't try Hairston
3) I don't see how Mahinmi could be worst, at least defensively, than all other players that have played today...

[Chieflion]

1)We don't have energy.
2)We need young legs.
3)We need a 7 footer that can run and play defense.

so :

1) maybe a trade for an enforcer like Maggette or Nocioni ?
2) why don't try Hairston
3) I don't see how Mahinmi could be worst, at least defensively, than all other players that have played today...
This part is very good for the lols.

[Kori Ellis]

It's not just about today's game. Over the last six games, Duncan is shooting around 35% ... something isn't right, that's a huge huge drop off. I'm hoping he isn't playing hurt.

[duncan228]

It's not just about today's game. Over the last six games, Duncan is shooting around 35% ... something isn't right, that's a huge huge drop off. I'm hoping he isn't playing hurt.

:( I've been holding onto the hope that it's a slump but I'm starting to worry.

[TIMMYD!]

I'd be worried about Manu and his colossal suckage.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's not just about today's game. Over the last six games, Duncan is shooting around 35% ... something isn't right, that's a huge huge drop off. I'm hoping he isn't playing hurt.

I've noticed it too. It worries me because this is around the exact time last year when Duncan's production went down incredibly after his great start.

[HarlemHeat37]

Last year's Duncan literally couldn't move..he doesn't look like that at all IMO..

It might be the start of it right now, but I really don't see how he's moving differently from a physical standpoint..

I don't think anybody can realistically expect to get the same Duncan we've been getting this season though..he's naturally going to drop-off..I don't think he'll be as bad as he has been the past 2 weeks from a shooting standpoint, but he won't be as good as he was to start off the year..we'll get something in the middle IMO, which is fine, but only if Parker/Manu/RJ show up..

[timvp]

I thought he looked a little better today but yeah I'm worried.

[Quiet Strength]

I thought duncan was playing great until pop rested him that one game.. Since then duncan hasn't really played so great.

[TDfan2007]

He's just in a shooting slump. I'm not noticing any slower movement, or lack of lift. He's just missing the same shots he was taking earlier this year. Shooting slumps happen to everybody, even the greats. No worries guys.

[doobs]

A huge segment of the team is in a shooting slump.

And once someone comes out of it, someone else starts throwing up bricks. It's been like that all season.

[venitian navigator]

Duncan is 34 years old...he's still a wonderful player but obviously tired when you ask him to be still our number one player for more than 30 minutes.
Manu and Parker are still very good players but not anymore at all star level (manu for injuries and age; parker for injuries and too much playing time all year long)...
Somebody else have to carry the team.


We have too many players that are one dimensional and can't contribute in other ways.
No way that in the some team players like Mason, Bogans and Bonner play all extended minutes, sometimes together.

Mason can only shoot (and sometimes, like today, he doesn't shoot well) but plays limited defense and can't rebound.
Bonner, see above.
Bogans can only play (decent) defense and nothing else...in comparison, Bowen (also the bowen of last season) would be by miles a better solution.

I think that, if we still want compete (I mean in play offs, not just in regular season) is finally time to see if we have some other resource...the only ones I still see are Hairston and Mahinmi.

In any case, going on like this there are very good chances we don't make the play offs...

[temujin]

Well, jumping actually helps playing basketball.
Not much, if you are good, but a little bit yes.

[Creation88]

fucking idiot thread

[timvp]

Duncan's speed up and down the court isn't at its normal level. Neither is his quickness. It's been pretty obvious as of late.

I wouldn't go into full panic mode because we've seen Duncan go through midseason swoons before where he just gets a bit fatigued ... but after last season, Spurs fans should be concerned, at least to a small degree.

[HarlemHeat37]

Fatigue at this stage of the season is natural, especially with the load he's had to carry this year..

Last year's Duncan looked HORRIBLE from a movement perspective in the 2nd half of the season..he definitely isn't anywhere near that point IMO..

Obviously this is a bad sign though, since he can't get a good rest right now..we're gonna have to rush TP back, which is obviously a bad move, but it might be necessary..this is what happens with age..

[doobs]

Duncan's speed up and down the court isn't at its normal level. Neither is his quickness. It's been pretty obvious as of late.

I wouldn't go into full panic mode because we've seen Duncan go through midseason swoons before where he just gets a bit fatigued ... but after last season, Spurs fans should be concerned, at least to a small degree.

True. And he did just have six games straight at home, dating back to the 20th. That's a lot of time to rest and sleep in your own bed and not have to travel.

[timvp]

Last year's Duncan looked HORRIBLE from a movement perspective in the 2nd half of the season..he definitely isn't anywhere near that point IMO..

It was a progressive decline last year. He didn't just fall off a cliff. Duncan started moving slower and slower and slower until it was obvious to everyone who watched.

[HarlemHeat37]

It was a progressive decline last year. He didn't just fall off a cliff. Duncan started moving slower and slower and slower until it was obvious to everyone who watched.

Yes, naturally, but I don't think he's showing the same signs as he did last year..at least IMO..

I do think it's dangerous though..they're gonna have to be cautious with this, so they'll have to keep resting him on b2bs and whenever they can, but it's tough at this point with the way the Spurs have been playing and the fact that we're in real danger of missing the playoffs..

Pop really needed to play the young players earlier this season, it would have saved some wear and tear for the season on Duncan and Manu..

[venitian navigator]

And that's why we should try the young legs...
Let's consider that we played 29 games at home and just 17 on the road...now ther's the rodeo trip and after, however, a very difficult schedule... and our studs look like they're already tired.

Everybody must contribute...hoping they can...

[senorglory]

Anyone else feel slightly depressed/irritated/crotchety when we talk about players in their mid thirties being past their prime and no longer to physically hang? Anyone else that is perhaps in their mid to late thirties? Anyone else that is sort of shocked by the idea that athletes are neither older men nor contemporaries, but now, our juniors? Does anyone else feel a slight jarring when they realize that all of the players that were just leaving college for the NBA about the same time you were leaving college are now... retired?

Crickey. I'm almost 37. All I've got left is Brett Farve and some PGA players.

[temujin]

The last 4-5 games, I thought it wa just his shot.
He was getting his career high rebound 27 thing.
But today, he was really slow.
That's why I appreciated that Blair played 30' to help him out....

[dbreiden83080]

20 and 10 playing 30 min a game, Duncan is the last thing wrong with this damn team..

[ShoogarBear]

Listen Kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at Wake Forest. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Shaq and Howard up and down the court for 48 minutes.

It's over, roger.

[objective]

I think there's a real possibility that smallball+microball just ground Duncan down to how he moves now. So many crunch time hard fought minutes where he had shoulder so much of the burden . . . posting up on offense, being the anchor and help defender on defense, being the only guy fighting for rebounds, getting taken out to the perimeter having to guard screen rolls instead of stealing rest near the post . . .

accelerated fatigue.

[HarlemHeat37]

It really is true..I don't really know how Pop doesn't see what he puts Duncan through with the players around him in the frontcourt..

[Galileo]

It's last year all over again. Except this time, he didn't even make it to the all-star break. He's got no lift in his legs. Defensively he's not a presence and offensively, he can't score near the basket.

two game ago, Tim Duncan had an unprecedented game in NBA history:

27 rebounds
10 offensive rebounds
11-11 free throws
6 assists
0 turnovers

never in NBA history has there been a game remotely like this one. Get your shit together.

[TJastal]

I think physically he looks ok, but he's not taking advantage of the areas on the floor he used to be very effective at, namely the bank shot from the mid-elbow.

Haven't seen him take his patented banker in 10 games or so it seems.

[HarlemHeat37]

That's true, good point..his bank shot has been so efficient this year, he has stopped taking it for some reason..

Blackjack pointed out that his moves looks a lot worse right now, which is true, and he's also brought back some of his stupid moves that he avoided using earlier..his shot selection has definitely been questionable during this stretch IMO..

[Agloco]

I'd be more worried about the fact that Ginobili's turned into one of the worst shooters in the league.

This. Manu has got to score more and consistently, especially with Tony's situation.

[Big Empty]

Duncan isn't the problem. He's not playing bad at all. At this age, we can expect him to score 35 points everynight. He's gonna be that 20 and 10 guy which is great. We need everyone else to step up. I hate to say this, but Tony actually needs the rest. I say leave him out till after the allstar break if we can. Richard Jefferson doesnt seem to be an upgrade so far over Bruce Bowen. Hell, I think I would rather still have Bowen. Lastly, we need to quit playing Matt Bonner so much. He has zero D and rebounding capability. He should see limited minutes. Manu seems to be doing better but still hasnt found his shot. The good news is there is still room for improvement. We have all the tools we need. I like the Duncan, Blaire and and Mcdice rotation. we're alright there actually in my opinion. But when Bonner is in there its like 5 on 4. Parker will comback healthy and find his rythem. Hopefully Gino finds his shooting touch. We are still a great team. We just arnt firing on all four cylinders yet.

[Galileo]

Duncan had decent stats for the game:

5-10 FGs
6-6 FTs (he has made at least 20 in a row now)
10 rebounds
0 turnovers

not bad for a bad game.

[Sean Cagney]

Duncan isn't the problem. He's not playing bad at all. At this age, we can expect him to score 35 points everynight. He's gonna be that 20 and 10 guy which is great. We need everyone else to step up. I hate to say this, but Tony actually needs the rest. I say leave him out till after the allstar break if we can. Richard Jefferson doesnt seem to be an upgrade so far over Bruce Bowen. Hell, I think I would rather still have Bowen. Lastly, we need to quit playing Matt Bonner so much. He has zero D and rebounding capability. He should see limited minutes. Manu seems to be doing better but still hasnt found his shot. The good news is there is still room for improvement. We have all the tools we need. I like the Duncan, Blaire and and Mcdice rotation. we're alright there actually in my opinion. But when Bonner is in there its like 5 on 4. Parker will comback healthy and find his rythem. Hopefully Gino finds his shooting touch. We are still a great team. We just arnt firing on all four cylinders yet.

This sounds great! But very optomistic and might not happen with Plantar and Gino being older now. If it does look out, if not they are going to be a decent team all year and get bounced in rounds one or two. I hope they pull it together and get that dagon 5th ring, that however sounds LIKE A LONGSHOT RIGHT ABOUT NOW! Peace.

[siraulo23]

well,its been a while since he shot 50% from the field

if he didnt have that 20-20 game, I'd be pretty concerned right now

hopefully he's just in a shooting slump

[UnWantedTheory]

Didnt he just have a 21 27 the other night?

[UnWantedTheory]

This is a little premature IMO.

[Man In Black]

Tim against Utah .314 11/35
Tim against Hou .765 26/34
Tim against Chi .394 13/33
Tim against Atl 1.10 38.5/35
Tim against Mem .667 22/33
Tim against Den .597 21/36

Total For the 6 games 131.5/206 = .638 All-Star Level Play for numbers accumulated / Minutes Played

For the season Tim is playing at a
1042.5/1366 = .763 Superstar Level

For Comparison's sake. Tim's best MVP season was 2001-2002
2449.5/3329 = .736 Over .700 Is Superstar Over .575 is All-Star

Again...it ain't Tim.
So I think you're way off OP. He killed it 4 out of 6 games and for the week was All-Star Level. The blame is elsewhere.

[Man In Black]

I'd be more worried about the fact that Ginobili's turned into one of the worst shooters in the league.

Also, upon observation, it would seem that the refs of the league aren't giving Manu any modicum of respect with regards to trips to the free throw line.

It's part of equation that people talk about here. If Manu gets his trips to the line, his FG% goes up. It's that simple.
For those that don't know and I know many of you already do, so this is for you that do not...
When a player takes a shot and he gets fouled while taking the shot, the FG attempt doesn't get registered UNLESS that player makes the shot, then it's the "and 1".
So, when watching these last few games, we get a lot of incredulity from both Manu & Pop because they both feel he's attacking the rim and throwing up shots with no whistle. No whistle means...the attempt is registered.

Taking a look at Ginobili's FT attempts per Game so far.
157/40 =3.925

In 07-08, Ginobili made 3rd team All-NBA. His FT attempts per game were 5.97. We might as well 6.
442/74 =5.972

So why is it that he averages 2 less FTs per game now? It could be because he takes more jump shots but he has been attacking more so...

I would like to see what happens if he get the respect back.

[jjktkk]

1) maybe a trade for an enforcer like Maggette or Nocioni ?

Since when did Maggette become an enforcer? Or what exactly does Maggette enforce? Not passing up a shot? Plus with his bloated contract, I don't think RC and Pop want to take on Maggette.

[vander]

we've got to sit Duncan out for the rest of the season so that he's back to early-season form come playoff time. :lol :lobt2:

[SpurNation]

Of course he's not. But he's still one of the top 5 PF/C in the league and earned (not just popularily voted into) yet another All-Star appearance.

If you're meaning he has gotten older and not the same Duncan that could defend on the perimeter or quicker bigs like he used to...yeah...I'll give you that.

But your OP suggests you think he is done. That would be absurd.

[SenorSpur]

In no way is Duncan the problem with the Spurs. In fact, he's been better than advertised for most of this season. One of the main issues, as is always the case, is the fact that Duncan STILL has to carry the majority of the offensive and defensive responsibilities for this team - at both ends of the court. He has very little help.

Blair has been a godsend in the rebounding department, but now Pop has demoted him. The Spurs still badly need more help in the rebounding, shotblocking and scoring areas. They're still too reliant on Duncan to provide these things every night.

[Chomag]

I wonder if it has anything to do that the Spurs expect him to guard the paint all by himself. The FO once again failed to give TD help leaving him to do it all by-himself once again. TD could get by like that before but he is older now. No one to blame about this other then the FO wearing down their star player expecting him to hold the fort all by himself once again.

Those who are expecting the old TD and old shell Manu to carry the team to a trophy are just living in the past. These guys have the heart but their bodies just will not allow it. Spurs need a trade or else they wont make it to the finals until they do. Love Manu, TD, TP however they are no longer a big 3.

[Spursone]

Am I missing something........
21 points and
27 rebounds!
He's the least of my worries. :downspin:

[TDfan2007]

Tim didn't look good against Utah, and has shot poorly in almost every game since then.

His shot selection is poor right now, because he's thinking too much due to his slump. He's hesitating more on outside jumpers whereas earlier in the season he'd just catch, fire, and score. His post moves are still good on the left block, but on the right block he's putting up his awkward one-handed shot more and more. It's a shot that he used to make all the time, but now his footwork on the shot is noticeably different and poor.

Basically, Tim is getting into his own head and taking stupid shots.

He needs to bring back the bank shot and start using his left hand more. He does that and his shooting percentage jumps back up.

What many people forget is that if his knees were really bothering him again, his FT stroke would be suffering the most. But if you look closely at his FTs, he's getting good lift and the shot is not as flat as before.

Oh and btw people, the guy only took 10 shots against Denver and he's been a "step slow" on D since 2008. If Tim actually touches the ball in the 4th his numbers go up and we have a much better chance at winning. I still don't get why we tend to shy away from Tim in the 4th quarter so often.

Pop: Tim's my best percentage shooter. Hmmm...fuck it. Manu, Tony, let's pick and roll to the death!

[E-RockWill]

Richard Jefferson, Roger Mason, Jr., Matt Bonner not hitting shots is a problem. Spurs overall lack of defensive ability is a HUGE problem. Manu not getting a whistle even if his life depended on it is a problem. Not playing Hairston, Ian or Theo for even a millisecond is a problem. Pop not knowing how the hell to coach this team after halftime is a problem.

Spurs are not playing Spurs defense that we have grown accustomed to.

Tim Duncan is not the problem. Manu's shooting % is not the problem.

[Admidave50]

The turning point will be the few games following the ASG! He'll be able to rest a little bit, we'll know if it's about fatigue or further health concerns.

Anyway, if Tim is really hurt this season is over... better trade all the losers and build for next year