I'm still so mad we couldn't get Nicolas Batum in 2008 draft [Archive]

ginobili fan

01-31-2010, 06:31 PM

I say this is the perfect 3 spot guy Spurs need.
Just f*** Houston they drafted him just to f*** the Spurs.

This is a little reminder : very interesting video.
Basically they say Batum wanted to go to the spurs so bad and so the spurs.
Batum's agent and the spurs were on an 110% agreement. He didn't send intentionally Batum's medical result (which was positive) to the Suns,the Nets, the Lakers and the Blazers who were very high on him to keep them in doubt.
The Cleveland workout (last one before draft ) was arranged to hide the Spurs interest for him.
But unfortunally all this CIA method failed closely and Batum was drafted 25 by the Rockets.
The Spurs used the 26th pick for George Hill. (still I'm very happy with Hill but he isn't the guy the Spurs needed the most.)

link:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb6123_destination-nba-56_sport

ffadicted

01-31-2010, 06:32 PM

I like George Hill lol

ginobili fan

01-31-2010, 06:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Q31mFv9Pk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYn8UXCr7Dg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT1xOLXZQ6A&feature=related lol

SenorSpur

01-31-2010, 07:01 PM

Nothing against George Hill, because I love him as both a player and a Spur, but Batum was also my target for the Spurs and he should've been their first choice. There's no question they needed him more than Hill.

Somehow I wish the Spurs could've gotten both. There's no question that Houston and Portland screwed the Spurs, but still what they did wasn't illegal. I wish both franchises nothing but failure.

ginobili fan

01-31-2010, 07:06 PM

SenorSpur

01-31-2010, 07:21 PM

Yeah really nothing against Hill.
Do you think someday we could get Batum in a trade ?
Blazers have so many young talent in 2-3 spot

Highly doubtful. From some previous reports I've read, the Spurs have tried, but Pritchard and the Blazers have rebuffed, not only the Spurs overtures, but other teams as well.

Batum is the long, defensive-minded, SF the Spurs have coveted for a long, long time. And he's a fellow countryman of Parker. It's a damn shame this draft didn't go down.

SPURSGOAT

01-31-2010, 07:28 PM

Highly doubtful. From some previous reports I've read, the Spurs have tried, but Pritchard and the Blazers have rebuffed, not only the Spurs overtures, but other teams as well.

Batum is the long, defensive-minded, SF the Spurs have coveted for a long, long time. And he's a fellow countryman of Parker. It's a damn shame this draft didn't go down.

I'm very happy and satisfied with Hill. I would not trade Hill for Batum... Hill plays outstanding D, gets rebounds and knows how to make his own shot.

SenorSpur

01-31-2010, 07:29 PM

I'm very happy and satisfied with Hill. I would not trade Hill for Batum... Hill plays outstanding D, gets rebounds and knows how to make his own shot.

No one said anything about trading Hill. In fact, this thread isn't even about that. We're just lamenting the fact that Batum was the preferred choice for what the Spurs needed at that time...and still need today.

Josepatches_

01-31-2010, 08:29 PM

I'm very happy and satisfied with Hill. I would not trade Hill for Batum... Hill plays outstanding D, gets rebounds and knows how to make his own shot.

+1

Batum here? Ok. For Hill? No,thanks

ginobili fan

01-31-2010, 09:16 PM

I'm very happy and satisfied with Hill. I would not trade Hill for Batum... Hill plays outstanding D, gets rebounds and knows how to make his own shot.

Batum also plays outstanding D, gets rebounds, blocks shots, and knows how to make his own shot and finish strong.
Believe me the guy is a very talented player, a potential all-star.

ginobili fan

01-31-2010, 09:35 PM

And if the Celtics got the first pick in 1997 they would have selected Tim Duncan.

Why are you mad about something that you can't control?

Because the fact is Houston and Portland screwed us.
Like seniorspur said it isn't illegal but they really fucked us.
The Rockets drafted Batum just because they didn't want the Spurs get stronger. Just stupid... and now they made Portland even more stronger with all their young talents.
They lost one more spot to reach the playoffs simply...They thought they could rivalize the spurs as contenders look at them now with Yao Ming finished and battling for the 8th seed...
This pushed the spurs to get the pussy Jefferson for 14 millions oh and we gave them Scola too just pathetic...

lil_penny

01-31-2010, 10:15 PM

Batum would fit perfect on the spurs imo.. very defensive minded and knows his role.. great 3 point shooter, and can create his own shots quite nicely. If he goes to any other team in his career I would like to see him as a spur. The boys ceiling is so damn high and I can already see the development from last year in just the few games he's played since being back. Rudy and him are both something special. But you guys have blair also who was such a damn steal and has great potential also. Wish that dude the best I love his game.

SenorSpur

01-31-2010, 11:03 PM

Batum would fit perfect on the spurs imo.. very defensive minded and knows his role.. great 3 point shooter, and can create his own shots quite nicely.

:tu

This is all the more reason why NOT being able to select this kid severely hurts the Spurs. Hasn't anyone noticed the decline in perimeter defense with this team? Ever since Bowen left the building, and even a year or two before that, the Spurs were beginning to slip in defending the perimeter. Now, the dam has broken and the rest of the NBA knows it.

Check the defensive stats and watch the games. Opposing players are blowing by Spurs defenders and getting to the rim with relative ease. When K-Mart goes off for 27 points, as he so easily did today, and when Aaron Affalo goes 6-6 from the perimeter, you know something is wrong defensively. The Spurs team defense is as bad as it's ever been at any time during the Pop era. They need better defenders on this team.

Obviously Batum was not going to solve all the Spurs problems. However, he would've been the perfect defensive compliment for the retiring Bowen and a better long-term answer at the SF position for this team. He could've been the "Derrick McKey"-type player that Pop, and many of us fans, have longed for.

Darthkiller

01-31-2010, 11:19 PM

Michael Jordan said last year after seeing batum play that he is gonna be the next pippen

Sean Cagney

01-31-2010, 11:24 PM

Michael Jordan said last year after seeing batum play that he is gonna be the next pippen

:( WE LOST. I love Hill and he is a very good young player, but man he seriously could have been something this team needed or needs.

Houston screws us again, after they got Scola from us :( They owed us man :depressed:depressed:lol

Chieflion

01-31-2010, 11:29 PM

Michael Jordan said last year after seeing batum play that he is gonna be the next pippen
Yes. The very same guy who drafted Kwame with the 1st overall pick, and Adam Morrison with the 3rd overall pick should be taken very seriously when evaluating talent.

Sean Cagney

01-31-2010, 11:37 PM

Yes. The very same guy who drafted Kwame with the 1st overall pick, and Adam Morrison with the 3rd overall pick should be taken very seriously when evaluating talent.

Yes, but he didn't draft Batum so his analysis of other players on other teams might be better than his own :lol:lol. He is already a good player, with a ton of room to grow. Brown never showed flashes and Morrison is just horrible.

SenorSpur

01-31-2010, 11:40 PM

I don't know about MJ's comments nor do I need his endorsement to tell me what I've already seen. Batum is already a superb defensive player, has an improving stroke from 3-pt line, can get to the rim and plays well with others. He's going to a star for a long time.

exstatic

02-01-2010, 12:15 AM

Bruno

02-01-2010, 12:31 AM

Batum is an awesome player but Hill is also damn good.

Spurs deserve a lot of props for what they have done in the past two drafts.
They were right on the money with Batum and Hill as first options in 2008 and Blair with the 37th pick in 2009 is a great pick.

Aside of that, Hairston and De Colo are also quite good picks given how low they have been drafted.

lil_penny

02-01-2010, 12:37 AM

yea batum has also developed a nice touch while going to the rim these past few games sorta pippen like with the palming of the ball and guiding it away from defenders with a nice lay in.. but the main thing the blazers love about him is that while a rookie i dont think we had a better defender then him last year. and hes a excellent shot blocker from behind like lebron and tayshaun.. nothing rarely gets by the dude.

hill is still a great young prospect for you guys and has great potential along with blair.

Obstructed_View

02-01-2010, 12:38 AM

Their problem has nothing to do with talent.

DesignatedT

02-01-2010, 12:44 AM

Yes, batum would have been very nice. i do love george though.

BTW, Hows James Gist doing in europe? i know he hasnt done particularly well when coming over here for summer league and etc.. but i still feel like he might develop into something nice one day.

ElNono

02-01-2010, 12:50 AM

Batum would have been playing for the Toros right about now, because he would be behind an injured Finley in the rotation...

jermaine

02-01-2010, 01:00 AM

BTW, Hows James Gist doing in europe? i know he hasnt done particularly well when coming over here for summer league and etc.. but i still feel like he might develop into something nice one day.[/QUOTE]

I watched all the summer gms an he sucked an looked lost. Ian outplayed him an Ian can't see the court so what you think that says about Gist. I thought Haslip was gone be good listening you'll on ST. We see how he turned out. Lmao

Bruno

02-01-2010, 01:21 AM

Gist is playing and Russia and averages 8.4 ppg and 4.4rpg. Nothing noteworthy.

SenorSpur

02-01-2010, 01:35 AM

If we draft Batum, Jacques Vaughn is playing heavy minutes every time Tony goes down, and is the primary backup. No fucking thank you. Our backup PG play has been WAY worse than our wing play over the last 3-4 years.

Couldn't disagree more. In actuality, Vaughn WAS the primary backup most of last year. Hill was obviously the better player. We all saw that when he filled in for an injured Parker at the outset of last season. Still he got the "rookie" treatment and was inexplicably benched in favor of Pop's beloved vet. Before Vaughn, Pop dicked around with NVE over Beno in 2006. Since then, the Spurs managed between a collection of Manu, Barry, Vaughn & Mason, all taking turns. That said, I just don't think the backup PG duties were that bad off the past 4 years, not in comparison to the SF slot.

That SF position, on the other hand, has been a virtual black hole, in terms of length, athleticism and scoring. Dating back to 2003 when SJax left the team, the Spurs have needed help there for quite some time. Pop's idea of filling the void left by SJax was to usher in the Finley era.

Despite Bowen's brilliance and defensive tenacity, he had very little help. Now that he's gone, we see the negative effects of having lost a premier defender. In my mind, Batum would've been the perfect fit in this post-Bowen era. Obviously the Spurs FO felt that way too. The other bonus would've been eliminating the need to go out and trade for RJ.

This is not a Hill versus Batum thing for me. The Spurs having a chance to draft Batum was potentially exciting because it would have finally filled a hole on the roster that has been a glaring deficiency for about 5 years, IMHO.

Josepatches_

02-01-2010, 02:23 AM

We picked a very good player in 2008 NBA draft.We couldn't get more.

I could be wrong but I think at the end George Hill will have a better NBA career than Batum.

TPnumber1

02-01-2010, 08:40 AM

We picked a very good player in 2008 NBA draft.We couldn't get more.

I could be wrong but I think at the end George Hill will have a better NBA career than Batum.

i dont think :king batum was unlucky with his injury but wait and see

pookenstein

02-01-2010, 09:13 AM

Batum would have been playing for the Toros right about now, because he would be behind an injured Finley in the rotation...

Sad but probably true. But I love having GH3 as a Spur. Kid is my favourite player behind Tim and Manul.

in2deep

02-01-2010, 10:59 AM

Parker for Batum.

ginobili fan

02-01-2010, 02:47 PM

We picked a very good player in 2008 NBA draft.We couldn't get more.

I could be wrong but I think at the end George Hill will have a better NBA career than Batum.

Then you're wrong.
I love George Hill too but he isn't a real PG. I don't think he can handle a team as a star PG even though he's an excellent defender.
In the other hand Batum is not Durant or Rudy Gay but he can be counted in the same type of player we are looking for in today's basketball: a very long guard who can play 2 or 3, got athletism, defense and talent.
I may repeat but the guy is a diamond in the rough, i even prefer Batum over Gay if we could have one of those players: Batum has high bb IQ, better defense and is improving his shooting basically the perfect Spur-fit guy.

ginobili fan

02-01-2010, 02:50 PM

I love TP but do you think this could make the spurs a better team ?http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfvonjx

blkroadrunners

02-01-2010, 04:22 PM

Because the fact is Houston and Portland screwed us.
Like seniorspur said it isn't illegal but they really fucked us.
The Rockets drafted Batum just because they didn't want the Spurs get stronger. Just stupid... and now they made Portland even more stronger with all their young talents.
They lost one more spot to reach the playoffs simply...They thought they could rivalize the spurs as contenders look at them now with Yao Ming finished and battling for the 8th seed...
This pushed the spurs to get the pussy Jefferson for 14 millions oh and we gave them Scola too just pathetic...

The NBA is still a business - stuff like this happens, and you just have to move on. In 2004, the Spurs and Jazz were already in negotiations of a trade if Utah drafted Jameer Nelson at #21, but instead Denver spoiled both teams plans and drafted Nelson (later traded to the Magic). Also, the Lakers were very high on George Hill, and I assume they were already in negotiations w/ another team.

SenorSpur

02-01-2010, 04:49 PM

The NBA is still a business - stuff like this happens, and you just have to move on. In 2004, the Spurs and Jazz were already in negotiations of a trade if Utah drafted Jameer Nelson at #21, but instead Denver spoiled both teams plans and drafted Nelson (later traded to the Magic). Also, the Lakers were very high on George Hill, and I assume they were already in negotiations w/ another team.

Still, it doesn't mean we can't bemoan the fact or be pissed at both the Rockets and Blazers.

ForeignFan

02-02-2010, 03:31 AM

15 pts/ 9 rbds in 25 ' yesterday, he looks good since he returned.

raspsa

02-02-2010, 04:02 AM

ForeignFan

02-02-2010, 05:03 AM

Batum was key in helping Portland defeat the Mavs in OT. He pressured Dirk into missing his last 4 mid-range jumpshots, the kind he usually makes with his eyes closed.. can't complain with Hill though one can only wonder.. is it easier to find a Batum replacement or a Hill replacement?

Batum would be great, but he's no PG, so we should not trade Hill for him (I am not sure Hill is a real PG, but he is definitely more than Batum....)

exstatic

02-02-2010, 08:13 AM

Batum was key in helping Portland defeat the Mavs in OT. He pressured Dirk into missing his last 4 mid-range jumpshots, the kind he usually makes with his eyes closed.. can't complain with Hill though one can only wonder.. is it easier to find a Batum replacement or a Hill replacement?

The two hardest positions to develop and fill are the 1 and the 5. Does that answer your question?

ElNono

02-02-2010, 08:35 AM

15 pts/ 9 rbds in 25 ' yesterday, he looks good since he returned.

He played some badass defense against SJax last night...

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 10:04 AM

tmtcsc

02-02-2010, 10:35 AM

George Hill has been the better player.

tmtcsc

02-02-2010, 10:38 AM

For the Spurs, the hardest position to fill has been the 3. That is where you find the NBA's greatest athletes. For years, the Spurs were afforded the luxury of having a defensive demon like Bowen, who literally negated that advantage.

Despite years of having Bowen there, the Spurs still failed to matchup athletically on the offensive end. In the meantime, the FO did a really piss-poor job of planning and identifying Bowen's eventual replacement. That's where this Batum kid would've been ideal.

?? They had him pegged for the draft but he went to Portland because of a draft day trade. We never had a chance to get him. How is that the Spurs' fault ? From what I remember, they made an effort to evaluate him and they liked him a lot. If he had been available, they probably would have picked him.

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 11:00 AM

?? They had him pegged for the draft but he went to Portland because of a draft day trade. We never had a chance to get him. How is that the Spurs' fault ? From what I remember, they made an effort to evaluate him and they liked him a lot. If he had been available, they probably would have picked him.

You're exactly right and I get all that. Let me clarify my point.

We're into year one of the post-Bowen era and the perimeter defense is atrocious. Bogans looked to be a good stop-gap, at the time, but so far, it's not working out. RJ was a nice get, but his integration has been slow. Furthermore, let's be honest. No one is going to mistake RJ's defense for Michael Cooper. All that said, the SF position is still deficient.

It's not the Spurs fault they missed out on Batum. It's their fault that they backed themselves into a corner by not adequately planning for Bowen's eventual departure. We're now seeing the results.

tmtcsc

02-02-2010, 01:26 PM

You're exactly right and I get all that. Let me clarify my point.

We're into year one of the post-Bowen era and the perimeter defense is atrocious. Bogans looked to be a good stop-gap, at the time, but so far, it's not working out. RJ was a nice get, but his integration has been slow. Furthermore, let's be honest. No one is going to mistake RJ's defense for Michael Cooper. All that said, the SF position is still deficient.

It's not the Spurs fault they missed out on Batum. It's their fault that they backed themselves into a corner by not adequately planning for Bowen's eventual departure. We're now seeing the results.

Yeah, RJ was brought in to replace Bowen / Finley and he's been terrible. He seemed like a fantastic option at the time and I think the Spurs FO is still in shock and having buyer's remorse from what they are getting from RJ. Just a huge BUST figuring the financial investment.

THANK GOD we didn't lose much to get him. We just need to move him along if we can find a buyer. We don't have time to let these guys find their way. Its too late for that BS.

superbigtime

02-02-2010, 01:49 PM

Spurs surely are stuck with RJ until next year.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 02:08 PM

It's not the Spurs fault they missed out on Batum. It's their fault that they backed themselves into a corner by not adequately planning for Bowen's eventual departure. We're now seeing the results.

Before I buy in to your position, could you name all the guys currently in the NBA that would have been adequate Bruce Bowen replacements? In fact, I'd settle for just the ones that have been available to the Spurs. I'm still sort of leaning toward the belief that they've tried damn hard to find a replacement for him, and that one simply doesn't exist that they've been able to get. It's one reason I've been lobbying for Hairston to come to San Antonio, because I think between him, Hill and Blair that the Spurs can sort of replace Bowen by committee.

Brazil

02-02-2010, 02:11 PM

He played some badass defense against SJax last night...

yeah and shooting 7 out of 10 against Charlotte is also a good performance

ElNono

02-02-2010, 02:32 PM

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 02:34 PM

Before I buy in to your position, could you name all the guys currently in the NBA that would have been adequate Bruce Bowen replacements? In fact, I'd settle for just the ones that have been available to the Spurs. I'm still sort of leaning toward the belief that they've tried damn hard to find a replacement for him, and that one simply doesn't exist that they've been able to get. It's one reason I've been lobbying for Hairston to come to San Antonio, because I think between him, Hill and Blair that the Spurs can sort of replace Bowen by committee.

Off the top of my head, here's a few:

Mikael Pietrus
Thabo Sefalosha
Trever Ariza
Matt Barnes
Arron Affalo
Dahntay Jones
Luc Richard Mbah A Moute
Serge Ibaka

In the cases of Pietrus, Barnes and Ariza, these guys were available via free agency at one time or another - particularly Pietrus. I know people have spoken ill of him for several years now. All I know, is that I saw him making plays on both ends of the floor for an Orlando team, that prematurely found themselves in the NBA Finals. Ariza played the same role for the Fakers, but now has way too much responsibility for the Rockets. Barnes has drifted from team-to-team for about 3 years now.

Mbah A Moute and Ibaka were both drafted by their respective teams, in the past 2 years, and were not readily available to the Spurs. However, both are superb defenders. While I doubt their current teams would be stupid enough to let them get away, they both certainly bear watching.

Of course, all of these guys have some flaws. However, as complimentary players, that are good role players and can most certainly defend. Either would've been serviceable options.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 02:38 PM

Well, this offseason alone both Artest and Ariza were available to some degree...

The Spurs used part of the MLE to pay Blair. Both Artest and Ariza got five year deals for 33 million, so even if the Spurs had the entire MLE they couldn't afford to be in the running. So without even going into whether or not either player would even come to the Spurs for equal money, what are you willing to give up (in addition to DeJuan Blair) to get either Artest or Ariza?

ElNono

02-02-2010, 02:44 PM

The Spurs used part of the MLE to pay Blair. Both Artest and Ariza got five year deals for 33 million, so even if the Spurs had the entire MLE they couldn't afford to be in the running. So without even going into whether or not either player would even come to the Spurs for equal money, what are you willing to give up (in addition to DeJuan Blair) to get either Artest or Ariza?

He said the Spurs didn't plan for Bowen's retirement, and he's correct. We didn't need to sign Jefferson, and could have gone instead with either of those two guys. So we shouldn't have had to give up Blair or Dice or anybody else.
Obviously hindsight is 20-20, etc etc etc

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 02:55 PM

Off the top of my head, here's a few:

Mikael Pietrus
Thabo Sefalosha
Trever Ariza
Matt Barnes
Arron Affalo
Dahntay Jones
Luc Richard Mbah A Moute
Serge Ibaka

In the cases of Pietrus, Barnes and Ariza, these guys were available via free agency at one time or another - particularly Pietrus. I know people have spoken ill of him for several years now. All I know, is that I saw him making plays on both ends of the floor for an Orlando team, that prematurely found themselves in the NBA Finals. Ariza played the same role for the Fakers, but now has way too much responsibility for the Rockets. Barnes has drifted from team-to-team for about 3 years now.

Mbah A Moute and Ibaka were both drafted by their respective teams, in the past 2 years, and were not readily available to the Spurs. However, both are superb defenders. While I doubt their current teams would be stupid enough to let them get away, they both certainly bear watching.

Of course, all of these guys have some flaws. However, as complimentary players, that are good role players and can most certainly defend. Either would've been serviceable options.

That's an excellent list.

The two that the Spurs had a clear shot at were Barnes and Jones, who were both free agents multiple times. The Spurs could have bid for Pietrus, but I don't know what the final numbers are nor do I remember whether they had the money to make it work, but that means maybe three guys that the Spurs could have gotten. I'm not positive that any of those guys is a better defender than Malik Hairston, muchless a motivated Richard Jefferson.

As great a job as you did putting together that list, I still maintain that finding a Bowen replacement is hard, and that the Spurs don't have one isn't evidence that they haven't been trying. Bowen casts a big shadow, and I still believe that it's going to take more than one person to step in.

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 02:56 PM

Bowen's impact on the Spurs was so essential that I could've envisioned it taking at least 2 players to mitigate the void left by his absence. Again, Bogans gives good defensive effort because he has the mentality. However, it's not enough.

It's defintely hard to replace everything Bowen provided. However, my point in criticizing the Spurs is that they KNEW this day would come. They had at least 3 years to plan for the transition. It's something that I've mentioned, ad nauseum, on this board for several years.

I was so afraid this would occur. To see, the once-proud "Spur" defense reduced to virtual "swiss cheese" is hard to watch. Better defenders equal better team defense, and the Spurs simply do not have capable defenders anymore.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 03:00 PM

He said the Spurs didn't plan for Bowen's retirement, and he's correct. We didn't need to sign Jefferson, and could have gone instead with either of those two guys. So we shouldn't have had to give up Blair or Dice or anybody else.
Obviously hindsight is 20-20, etc etc etc

Also, the Spurs traded for Jefferson. You can't give up a retiring guy and two old forwards for a free agent or a good player with a good contract. The Spurs have been working on trying to find a Bowen replacement for years, and Batum was their best shot.

I don't know if this has been brought up, but why not Michael Finley to the Heat for Dorell Wright? That gets Miami under the luxury tax.

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 03:01 PM

Also, the Spurs traded for Jefferson. You can't give up a retiring guy and two old forwards for a free agent or a good player with a good contract. The Spurs have been working on trying to find a Bowen replacement for years, and Batum was their best shot.

I don't know if this has been brought up, but why not Michael Finley to the Heat for Dorell Wright? That gets Miami under the luxury tax.

That's the point right there. Batum was probably their best shot. I'm hopeful the Spurs will focus "solely" on this position again in the next draft. However, it's unlikely we'll see another player of Batum's skills and length, anytime soon.

timvp

02-02-2010, 03:04 PM

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 03:05 PM

I don't know if this has been brought up, but why not Michael Finley to the Heat for Dorell Wright? That gets Miami under the luxury tax.

ElNono

02-02-2010, 03:13 PM

Well, I think after the next 4 games or so we'll know if we need to take a desperate swat and anything that's available out there... I still like our roster, but like Pop said, they don't play a lick of defense sometimes...

HarlemHeat37

02-02-2010, 03:15 PM

The "defensive stopper" role really isn't THAT difficult to find IMO..it's not something you have to get in the lottery or even in the mid-1st round..yes, you can find a lot of them there, but you can also find A LOT of "stoppers" in the 2nd round, and some of them aren't even drafted at all..there's a large list of these guys, it's not just a couple of guys..I'm not talking about Bruce Bowen-caliber stoppers, I'm talking about guys that can legitimately fill the role enough to at least be passable defenders on a good defensive team..

If you find a guy with a role player mentality, a lot of energy and hard work, and a guy that has 2 of the following 3: length/athleticism/lateral quickness, then you can have a passable defensive stopper..

Part of the problem with the Spurs is that they haven't tried to develop younger players as stoppers since Bowen has gotten old, instead choosing to go with guys that are more experienced..Ime was 30 when the Spurs signed him, and now they went after Bogans, another 30 year old(maybe 29?)..

Hairston SHOULD have been given this role to start the season..he has very good athleticism and lateral quickness, and he's also a hard worker/energy guy..guys like that are easy fillers that can allow the FO and the rest of the team to focus on different needs and positions..

Just in this era alone, we've seen previous undrafted players like Mo Evans, Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen become very good defensive stoppers..right now, we have 2nd round picks like Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes, Luc Mbah a Moute as defensive stoppers for their teams..you can find these types of guys in various places..they just have to have the aspects I mentioned + a good defensive system and situation..the Spurs have a good defensive system and situation for a young defender to thrive in the league, but unfortunately, we don't have a coach that has the same mentality unless he has no other options..

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 03:33 PM

I still don't get the love for Mickael Pietrus. He was bad last regular season and is playing even worse this regular season. He's a below average offense player and an undisciplined defensive player. Yeah, great athlete and can play very well when he's hot but overall he's an extremely average player and not worth his salary. He was on fire for part of the playoffs last year but the rest of his time on the Magic has been a disappointment.

Yeah, I heard all that before. All I know is what I saw in the playoffs and the Finals.

As far as the Spurs are concerned, what I see now is a core of players who cannot keep a parade of opposing players out of the paint.

Brazil

02-02-2010, 04:08 PM

ginobili fan

02-02-2010, 05:37 PM

I still don't get the love for Mickael Pietrus. He was bad last regular season and is playing even worse this regular season. He's a below average offense player and an undisciplined defensive player. Yeah, great athlete and can play very well when he's hot but overall he's an extremely average player and not worth his salary. He was on fire for part of the playoffs last year but the rest of his time on the Magic has been a disappointment.

I agree with you on Pietrus, he's a great athlete sure and inconsistant too, but is still better than bogans, jefferson in defensive role.
He isn't the best option for sure but still better than anyone in the team right now in 3spot unfortunately...
And under Pop who knows he would learn discipline.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 05:48 PM

I agree with you on Pietrus, he's a great athlete sure and inconsistant too, but is still better than bogans, jefferson in defensive role.
He isn't the best option for sure but still better than anyone in the team right now in 3spot unfortunately...
And under Pop who knows he would learn discipline.

If Jefferson doesn't have the discipline to play defense under Pop then what hope is there for Pietrus?

DPG21920

02-02-2010, 05:51 PM

Bowen Replacement: Corey Brewer.

TJastal

02-02-2010, 06:09 PM

The negative on Pietrus has been his offensive inconsistency this year and he has also been plagued with bouts of turnovers and bad shot selections, which has caused Van Gundy to drop him from the starting lineup in favor of the consistent Matt Barnes. Kind of similar to Keith Bogans' struggles.

That said, the positives of MP is he a heckuva defensive player who has the agility, size and length to guard a greater variety of matchups, and especially those bigger wings of the league that tend to take a shit all over Bogans.

The other thing about Pietrus I've noticed is the guy always seems to hit big shots when the magic need one, and plays his best in the biggest games and biggest stages (playoffs). Which more than justifies his salary IMO.

He is like the anti-Bonner.

SenorSpur

02-02-2010, 06:33 PM

Every player that comes to you has some flaws. That's what you have coaches for - to instill some structure, discipline and put players in positions to be successful. Besides, any player that played for Nellie too long is bound to have some "dumb-ass" in him.

rascal

02-02-2010, 06:41 PM

If the spurs wanted him all that bad they should have moved up in the draft with a trade and got him.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 06:58 PM

I don't know if this has been brought up, but why not Michael Finley to the Heat for Dorell Wright? That gets Miami under the luxury tax.

Can someone please tell me why this doesn't make as much sense as I think it does?

MaNu4Tres

02-02-2010, 07:13 PM

Can someone please tell me why this doesn't make as much sense as I think it does?

It would take more to get Dorrell Wright, who has taken over being the first SG/SF off the bench in favor of James Jones and Daequan Cook.

His stock has gone up since the beginning of the season when that may have been an option.

If Miami is interested in getting under the cap, the bench players that aren't getting playing time are more available.

HarlemHeat37

02-02-2010, 07:15 PM

Pop probably wouldn't trade Finley for Lebron, let alone Dorrell Wright..

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 07:45 PM

It would take more to get Dorrell Wright, who has taken over being the first SG/SF off the bench in favor of James Jones and Daequan Cook.

His stock has gone up since the beginning of the season when that may have been an option.

If Miami is interested in getting under the cap, the bench players that aren't getting playing time are more available.

So throw in a second round pick with it. They're saving 7 million dollars in the transaction, get a three point shooter who can play exactly the same position, and they've already got giant banners of Finley ready to roll out.

MaNu4Tres

02-02-2010, 07:51 PM

So throw in a second round pick with it. They're saving 7 million dollars in the transaction, get a three point shooter who can play exactly the same position, and they've already got giant banners of Finley ready to roll out.

If that was the case and a 2nd rounder was all it took in addition to Finley, Spurs would be stupid not to do it.

Obstructed_View

02-02-2010, 09:24 PM

If that was the case and a 2nd rounder was all it took in addition to Finley, Spurs would be stupid not to do it.

And probably have already asked and been laughed at. Doesn't change the fact that it's a good trade for both teams. Pat Riley may still be sore at providing the Spurs their last all-world defender.

ginobili fan

02-28-2010, 10:02 AM

Batum last night dominated with 31 points 7 rbds 7 assists 3 steals in 29 min, with 11/16 5/8 from the arc.
Guys I'm so jaleous of Portland right now look at their backourts:
Roy, Fernandez, Miller, Batum ,bayless, Webster( he was great all the month and he isn't playing anymore)... just incredible :wow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lmiDIwTMU

PS:I love Jefferson

exstatic

02-28-2010, 10:14 AM

He said the Spurs didn't plan for Bowen's retirement, and he's correct. We didn't need to sign Jefferson, and could have gone instead with either of those two guys. So we shouldn't have had to give up Blair or Dice or anybody else.
Obviously hindsight is 20-20, etc etc etc

No, he's not correct. Last year was nothing BUT a giant retirement preparation for Bowen going out the door. We also DIDN'T sign Jefferson, we TRADED for him, traded a group of players that included BRUCE BOWEN. With his partially guaranteed contract on Milwaukee's books, I guess the Spurs damn well DID know he was retiring.

Dice was also signed with the MLE, the money you would use for Ariza or Psycho-Boy. So, if they had signed one of them, then yes it WOULD have cost them Dice.