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Man Mountain
01-31-2010, 07:12 PM
I do not know if what I’m about to write makes me a monster. I do know that it makes me a part of a miniscule minority, if Internet trends and news stories of the past weeks are any guide.

“It”, is this:

I haven’t donated a cent to the Haitian relief effort. And I probably will not.

I haven’t donated to the Haitian relief effort for the same reason that I don’t give money to homeless men on the street. Based on past experiences, I don’t think the guy with the sign that reads “Need You’re Help” is going to do anything constructive with the dollar I might give him. If I use history as my guide, I don’t think the people of Haiti will do much with my money either.

In this belief I am, evidently, alone. It seems that everyone has jumped on the “Save Haiti” bandwagon. To question the impulse to donate, then, will probably be viewed as analogous with rooting for Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, or the Spice Girls.

My wariness has much to do with the fact that the sympathy deployed to Haiti has been done so unconditionally. Very few have said, written, or even intimated the slightest admonishment of Haiti, the country, for putting itself into a position where so many would be killed by an earthquake.

I can’t help but wonder why questions have not been raised in the face of this outpouring of support. Questions like this one:

Shouldn’t much of the responsibility for the disaster lie with the victims of that disaster?

Before the reader reaches for his or her blood pressure medication, he should allow me to explain. I don’t mean in any way that the Haitians deserved their collective fate. And I understand that it is difficult to plan for the aftermath of an earthquake. However, it is not outside the realm of imagination to think that the citizens of a country might be able to: A) avoid putting themselves into a situation that might result in such catastrophic loss of life. And B) provide for their own aid, in the event of such a catastrophe.

Imagine that I’m a caveman. Imagine that I’ve chosen to build my house out of balsa wood, and that I’m building it next to a roaring river because I’ve decided it will make harvesting fish that much easier. Then, imagine that my hut is destroyed by a flood.

Imagining what would happen next is easier than imagining me carrying a caveman’s club. If I were lucky enough to survive the roaring waters that took my hut, my tribesmen would say, “Building next to the river was pretty dumb, wasn’t it?.” Or, if I weren’t so lucky, they’d say, “At least we don’t have to worry about that moron anymore.”

Sure, you think, but those are cavemen. We’re more civilized now – we help each other, even when we make mistakes.

True enough. But what about when people repeat their mistakes? And what about when they do things that obviously act against their own self-interests?

In the case of mistakes and warnings as applied to Haiti, I don’t mean to indict those who ignored actual warnings against earthquakes, of which there were many before the recent one. Although it would have been prudent to pay heed to those, I suppose.

Instead, I’m referring to the circumstances in which people lived. While the earthquake was, obviously, unavoidable, the way in which many of the people of Haiti lived was not. Regrettably, some Haitians would have died regardless of the conditions in that country. But the fact that so many people lived in such abject poverty exacerbated the extent of the crisis.

How could humans do this to themselves? And what’s being done to stop it from happening again?

After the tsunami of 2004, the citizens of the world wailed and donated and volunteered for cleanup, rarely asking the important – and, I think, obvious – question: What were all those people doing there in the first place? Just as important: If they move back to a place near the ocean that had just been destroyed by a giant wave, shouldn’t our instinct be to say, “Go ahead if you want, but you’re on your own now.”?

We did the same after Hurricane Katrina. We were quick to vilify humans who were too slow to respond to the needs of victims, forgetting that the victims had built and maintained a major city below sea level in a known target zone for hurricanes. Our response: Make the same mistake again. Rebuild a doomed city, putting aside logic as we did.

And now, faced with a similar situation, it seems likely that we will do the same.

Shouldn’t there be some discourse on how the millions of dollars that are being poured into Haiti will be spent? And at least a slight reprimand for the conditions prior to the earthquake? Some kind of inquisition? Something like this?:

Dear Haitians –

First of all, kudos on developing the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. Your commitment to human rights, infrastructure, and birth control should be applauded.

As we prepare to assist you in this difficult time, a polite request: If it’s possible, could you not re-build your island home in the image of its predecessor? Could you not resort to the creation of flimsy shanty- and shack-towns? And could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

Sincerely,

The Rest of the World

It shouldn’t be outlandish to hope that we might stop short of the reactionary word that is so often flung about after natural (and unnatural) disasters. That word: Rebuild. Thus, the tired, knee-jerk cycle of aid/assist/rebuild would be replaced by a new one: Aid/assist/let’s-stop-and-think-before-we-screw-this-up-again.

If forced to do so through logic-colored glasses, no one would look at Haiti and think, “You know what? It was a great idea to put 10 million people on half of an island. The place is routinely battered by hurricanes (in 2008, $900 million was lost/spent on recovery from them), it holds the aforementioned title of poorest nation in the Western hemisphere, and it happens to sit on a tectonic fault line.”

If it were apparent that Haiti would likely rebuild in an earthquake-resistant way, and if a cure could be found for hurricane abuse of island nations, then maybe one could imagine putting a sustained effort into rebuilding the place. But that would only be feasible if the country had shown any ability to manage its affairs in the past, which it has not done.

I can tell, based on my own reaction to that last sentence, that it might strike a nerve. The reader might be tempted to think, “We can’t blame the people of Haiti for their problems. Surely it’s someone else’s fault.” A similar sentiment can be found in this quote, from article on the geology behind the quake:

“Unfortunately, [Haiti]’s government was not in a position to really do much to prepare for the inevitable large earthquake, leaving tens of thousands to suffer the consequences.”

The sentiment expressed is one of outrage at the government. But, ultimately, the people in a country have control over their government. One could argue that in totalitarian regimes, they do not have much control, but in the end, it is their government. And therefore, their responsibility. If the government is not doing enough for the people, it is the people’s responsibility to change the government. Not the other way around.

Additionally, some responsibility for the individual lies with that individual.

A Haitian woman, days after the earthquake:

“We need so much. Food, clothes, we need everything. I don’t know whose responsibility it is, but they need to give us something soon,” said Sophia Eltime, a mother of two who has been living under a bed sheet with seven members of her extended family. (From an AP report.)

Obviously, a set of circumstances such as the one in which Ms. Eltime was living is a heart-wrenching one. And for that, anyone would be sympathetic. Until she says, “I don’t know whose responsibility it is.” I don’t know whose responsibility it is, either. What I do know is that it is not the responsibility of the outside world to provide help. It’s nice if we do, but it is not a requirement, especially when people choose to influence their own existences negatively, whether by having too many children when they can’t afford them or by failing to recognize that living in a concrete bunker might not be the best way to protect one’s family, whether an earthquake happens or not.

Ms. Eltime’s reaction helps define what is the crux of my problem with the reaction to this and to other humanitarian crises. I recoil at the notion that I’m SUPPOSED to do something. I would like to help, but only if I feel that my assistance is deserved and justified. If I perceive that I am being told to feel a certain way, and if I can point to a pattern of mistakes made in similar situations, I lose interest.

When I was young, the great humanitarian crisis facing our world – as portrayed by the media, anyway – was the starving masses in Africa. The solution found, of course, was to send bag after bag of food to those people, forgetting the long-understood maxim that giving more food to poor people allows them to create more poor people. (Admittedly, it’s a harsh truth.) At the time, my classmates and I, young and naïve as we were, thought we had come up with a better solution. “They should just go somewhere else,” we said. Our teacher grimaced, saying, “It’s not that simple.”

It still isn’t. And I’m not as naïve as I once was – I don’t think the people of Haiti have the option of moving. But I do think that our assistance should be restricted, like it should be in cases of starvation. It simply does not work to give, unconditionally. What might work is to teach. In the case of famine-stricken segments of Africa, teaching meant making people understand that a population of people needs a certain amount of food, and that the creation of that food has to be self-sustaining for the system to work. In the case of earthquake-stricken Haiti, teaching might mean limited help, but help that is accompanied by criticism of the circumstances that made that help necessary.

In the case of the Haitian earthquake, it’s heartening to see people caring about the fates of their fellow men. What is alarming, I think, is the sometimes illogical frenzy toward casting those affected by the earthquake as helpless, innocent souls who were placed on the island of Hispaniola by an invisible force. In the case of some, this analogy might well be accurate; children cannot very well control their destinies. And as far as sympathy goes, much of it should go to those children.

But children are brought into the world by their parents. Those parents have a responsibility – to themselves and to their kids – to provide. They have a responsibility to look around – before an earthquake happens – and say, “I need to improve this situation, because if a catastrophe were to happen, we’d be in bad shape.”

The people of whom I write are adults. Functional, human adults with functional, human adult brains. It is not too much to ask that they behave as such. That they stand up and say, “Yes, we screwed this up the first time. We are forever indebted to you. Now show us how we can do it right. So that, next time, we won’t need your help.”

ESPN FIRED Paul Shirley after this article! I loved reading his ESPN articles but this Haiti article was disgusting!

timvp
01-31-2010, 07:16 PM
Yeah, Shirley should have stuck with sports and music.

Fpoonsie
01-31-2010, 07:26 PM
Poor timing, but I can't help but agree w/ a majority of what he's saying.

Heath Ledger
01-31-2010, 08:33 PM
He makes very good points but timing is everything.

Vinnie_Johnson
01-31-2010, 10:14 PM
Bad timing but some of his points are spot on.

SAtown
01-31-2010, 10:29 PM
This is a horribly written article. It's as if he had thesaurus.com opened on a tab after his 7th grade teacher had revised this piece of shit. I'm glad he got fired for the simple fact that he can't write worth a damn

exstatic
02-01-2010, 12:24 AM
Wow. What a complete tool. Don't cry for his firing, I'm sure FOX news is on the line as we speak.

Jacob1983
02-01-2010, 02:07 AM
It seems like ESPN should have taken some of the blame for this. The editors of their website are either dumb-asses or attention whores. They either didn't realize that this rant would be controversial and offensive or they did know it would be that way and went ahead and let it be on their website.

Bukefal
02-01-2010, 09:06 AM
He has taking this very extremely. I do not agree with him of course. But with the thing he said; 'Save Haiti bandwagon'. He is a bit true with that. So many people do this not anymore to help, but just because it has become a sort of popularity thing. It became a hype, rather then people realize what it's meant for.

And also about this whole save haiti thing recently, I think its going too far. Too much money, too much donations, too much events etc.. So much money and all that money isn't even going to end up fair and at the right place. I mean, almost every country in the world is donating, most of them millions, plus money from international organizations, plus charity organizations, plus private individuals, plus companies who raise money, it's too much.

It will end up in pockets and places, for which it was not meant to end up. That's what annoys me.

CubanMustGo
02-01-2010, 09:48 AM
It seems like ESPN should have taken some of the blame for this. The editors of their website are either dumb-asses or attention whores. They either didn't realize that this rant would be controversial and offensive or they did know it would be that way and went ahead and let it be on their website.

It was not on an ESPN web site:

http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/

I. Hustle
02-01-2010, 11:26 AM
Poor timing, but I can't help but agree w/ a majority of what he's saying.


He makes very good points but timing is everything.


Bad timing but some of his points are spot on.

I agree with a lot of the article. It sucks that so many people had to die. That is always horrible but what makes it our responsibility to help out. There are tons of people right here that the money we sent could have helped out. The donations, time, tax money that went over there could have done wonders to help out people here that are starving and dying.

SAGambler
02-01-2010, 11:53 AM
Poor timing, but I can't help but agree w/ a majority of what he's saying.

Poor timing or not, the man said something that needs to be said. Everytime somewhere in the world suffers, we are supposed to jump on the bandwagon and save their asses. It's bs, and like he said, a bunch, a big bunch of that money will not help anyone, except whomever can manage to divert it to their pockets.

How many millionaires were made in the aftermath of Katrina? You'll never be told that number.

Spurstro
02-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Here is his followup from that article...

http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/28/a-reaction-by-paul-shirley/

In writing a column about the aftermath of the Haitian earthquake (http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/), it was not my intent to suggest that I don’t care about the fate of Haiti, or that I am not sympathetic to the people who make up the huge numbers and heartbreaking images we see flashed across our television and computer screens.

Instead, my goal was to question the psychology of donating, the way we react to natural disasters and the nature of responsibility leading up to and immediately after those disasters. Regardless of the outcry that followed, I think I did those things.


When I wrote about the responsibility borne by the Haitian people for their circumstances prior to the earthquake, I did not make clear that I understand that outside influences have played a large part in determining those circumstances. However, I maintain that much of the responsibility (not all) for one’s fate – or for the fate of a group of people – lies with that person or with those people. I understand that dire circumstances can make taking the yoke of that responsibility very, very difficult. But to assume that the Haitians’ fate was not at least in part their own responsibility is to insult that group of people even more. It rationalizes much of the United States’ past meddling in the affairs of Haiti. But most of all, it shows even less respect to the Haitian people.


I’m disappointed that some outlets chose to extract segments of my column, framing my opinions in their own. Many readers were going to disagree with my opinions regardless of the context in which they were presented – that was, in some ways, the point of writing them. But when they were enticed into reading the piece by potentially inflammatory bits that were taken out of context, readers had little chance to look at my views with the proverbial clean slate.


While I will not apologize for writing my column, I do accept the repercussions associated with writing it and hope that some good may come out of those repercussions: that people will stop and think about their own motivations for giving and that someone else might be inspired to come up with a better way to prepare for, respond to, and recover from disasters like the one in Haiti.


Thanks for reading.
Paul

DisAsTerBot
02-01-2010, 01:52 PM
He has taking this very extremely. I do not agree with him of course. But with the thing he said; 'Save Haiti bandwagon'. He is a bit true with that. So many people do this not anymore to help, but just because it has become a sort of popularity thing. It became a hype, rather then people realize what it's meant for.

And also about this whole save haiti thing recently, I think its going too far. Too much money, too much donations, too much events etc.. So much money and all that money isn't even going to end up fair and at the right place. I mean, almost every country in the world is donating, most of them millions, plus money from international organizations, plus charity organizations, plus private individuals, plus companies who raise money, it's too much.

It will end up in pockets and places, for which it was not meant to end up. That's what annoys me.

i think you agree completely

angel_luv
02-01-2010, 02:40 PM
I am taking a class right now on " Changes that Heal".

A major point in the book I was given to study is the equal importance of truth and grace in how we handle situations.

So I appreciate the author's point of asking people of Haiti to take responsibility for improving their future situation while I also recognize that the people of Haiti need outside assistance.

It kind of goes to the whole " give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."

The book I am reading for my class gives the example that in a good AA group, it is culturally impossible for anyone to be perfect because perfection equals denial.
Therefore, there is always something a person can do to better his situation.
He may need outside help also, as do the people in Haiti, but a person should be helping himself with the same eagerness, if not more, that he accepts assistance from others.


I agree that the timing of the article makes it seem heartless.
But at the same time the author has an eager audience when it comes to anything Haiti related, so it makes sense for him to release his article now.
He is sparking conversation, which is a good thing.

Also I admire the author's courage to have an opinion, state it plainly, and stand by it.
I much prefer his type to those who strive to be politically correct to either protect or promote themselves.

I. Hustle
02-01-2010, 02:44 PM
What sucks though AL is there are too many people that don't want to learn how to fish and expect others to just give it to them for no reason whatsoever.

angel_luv
02-01-2010, 02:49 PM
What sucks though AL is there are too many people that don't want to learn how to fish and expect others to just give it to them for no reason whatsoever.

Believe me, I know you are right.

I often have wished there was a once and for all, clear cut, plainly defined line between helping someone and enabling someone.

My personal struggle with that issue is one of the reasons I signed up for the class I am taking.

Stringer_Bell
02-01-2010, 03:40 PM
I agree that the timing of the article makes it seem heartless.
But at the same time the author has an eager audience when it comes to anything Haiti related, so it makes sense for him to release his article now.
He is sparking conversation, which is a good thing.

Also I admire the author's courage to have an opinion, state it plainly, and stand by it.
I much prefer his type to those who strive to be politically correct to either protect or promote themselves.

Yes, it makes sense for him to publish it now that the disaster is still in our social consciousness. While he didn't express his points as graceful as he could have, people do need to take a look at their willingness to send money off when they don't seem to be questioning how and IF the Haitian government (and people) will take the appropriate measures, and if the money they send will just go into a black hole. When/why did it become taboo to state "maybe we should question how we can HELP people stop asking 'whose responsibility is it to take care of me' when these events occur"? It might be insensitive to ask such things in the immediate hours or day after a disaster...but now when the picture is becoming somewhat clearer accountability shouldn't be something people are afraid to establish.

At this point, from what I understand (I could be wrong), we're (I say we, since the US is giving aid in our name, so we all have a share in this even if we're not buying a "Classroom in a Box" so the kids can learn something while their schools are destroyed) just paying to help the people out for now. There's no discussion of building code regulations, emergency systems, etc. It's just "feeding a man for a day" and most people seem content with that until the next disaster comes along and they can feel like a good Samaritan.

Drachen
02-01-2010, 04:08 PM
[QUOTE=Stringer_Bell;4045918] While he didn't express his points as graceful as he could have, people do need to take a look at their willingness to send money off when they don't seem to be questioning how and IF the Haitian government (and people) will take the appropriate measures, and if the money they send will just go into a black hole. QUOTE]

I found it interesting that there was an article that came out a few days ago that basically de-legitimized the Haitian government as a whole. The Haitian President was quoted basically saying that he wasn't happy because the Gov't wasn't getting enough funds. Then when the article broke down where each dollar went it stated that because of the wreckless and rampant corruption in that government less than 1 penny of every dollar donated goes to the Haitian government. It went so far as to say that the government of the Dominican Republic is recieving more (about 1.4 cents) per dollar to help with the influx of their Haitian neighbors than the government of Haiti. LOL. This makes me happy as the money is going directly to the people that need it and not to some government official.

CuckingFunt
02-01-2010, 08:45 PM
This article seems reasonable to a number of people because many of the issues raised within are legitimate issues that should be dealt with sooner rather than later. There are problems in Haiti, clearly. There shouldn't, in the year 2010, be an entire nation of people living in homes that are so structurally unsound. There was a 6.5 magnitude quake centered 25 miles away from my house a few days before the Haiti quake and the only damage sustained in my area was a few fallen bricks and broken windows. Less than a week later and an entire country is leveled by an earthquake not much bigger? Clearly there is a discrepancy there that should be addressed, and hopefully this disaster is the start of people taking steps to actually solve some of the very real problems that exist within Haiti.

That being said, there are numerous problems with the article and the attitudes at its core. For one thing, it's dangerously shortsighted to have the approach that if people really wanted to live in better homes they could just build them. I'm sure if they could, they would. Are there people to blame for Haiti's issues? Of course. Are they Haitian? Many of them are. The government, as already mentioned within this thread, has been almost laughably broken for years. But are the thousands of newly orphaned children currently living in the streets and/or makeshift orphanages to blame for Haiti's infrastructure or governmental problems? Of course not. Condemning the donation of money is essentially blaming and punishing people who have done nothing but live their lives.

Additionally, there's a righteous indignation behind this attitude that really drives me crazy. Haiti's problems have existed for as long as any of us have been alive, and I'm willing to bet that Paul Shirley didn't expend much energy worrying about those problems until a month ago. It's both negligent and arrogant to discourage people from donating money to those who need it because you're all of a sudden offended by issues that have existed forever but about which you didn't give a fuck thirty days ago.

Cry Havoc
02-02-2010, 02:36 AM
It's sad that poor people are continually blamed for being poor. Because obviously they love living with barely (and usually not even) the basic amenities of life that we enjoy so freely.

I don't know why so many well-off individuals in the "first world" hold the opinion that less fortunate individuals enjoy living in squalor. It's ridiculously ethno and caste-centric, and it's very dismissive of just how overwhelming of a problem poverty is. There is no magical switch you can throw to make living standards improve, or for revolution to occur. When the people in the country that have the guns and the money are corrupt, there is very little you can do to stop them or bring about any kind of change.

Lastly, pointing out Haiti as an example of a people that were inadequately prepared for disaster just over half a decade after a hurricane hits the U.S. and causes $100,000,000,000 in damage wreaks of hypocrisy.

Fpoonsie
02-02-2010, 03:01 AM
Lastly, pointing out Haiti as an example of a people that were inadequately prepared for disaster just over half a decade after a hurricane hits the U.S. and causes $100,000,000,000 in damage wreaks of hypocrisy.


We did the same after Hurricane Katrina. We were quick to vilify humans who were too slow to respond to the needs of victims, forgetting that the victims had built and maintained a major city below sea level in a known target zone for hurricanes. Our response: Make the same mistake again. Rebuild a doomed city, putting aside logic as we did.

As to your other point, he alludes to the dilemma of children who don't have a choice in the matter, ones that were brought into this impoverished world. One of my biggest problems w/ situations such as these is the fact that these people can hardly fend for themselves for daily sustenance. WHY bring someone ELSE into the mix when you yourself are hardly making it by day-to-day? It only leads to worse conditions for both the child and parent alike.

L.I.T
02-02-2010, 03:29 AM
There are so many issues with this article, but one clearly jumps out and should be addressed:

Blaming the Haitians for the actions of the government. As someone who was born, raised and works in a third world country and spends has dedicated his life to foundation work (specifically education) that type of an attitude is short-sighted, ignorant and inherently condescending. You are transferring your own circumstances - circumstances that have the benefit of education, free thought and a culture that believes anything is possible - onto a society where none of that exists or is applicable.

Do not ever make the mistake of saying or believing that "Because we did it another country can do it." That attitude, at the heart of this article, clearly demonstrates how misguided he is. I found this to be one of the most ill-conceived and ignorant articles I have read in a long time. A poster-child if you will for the issues on how first-worlders approach developing countries.

Drachen
02-02-2010, 09:23 AM
This article seems reasonable to a number of people because many of the issues raised within are legitimate issues that should be dealt with sooner rather than later. There are problems in Haiti, clearly. There shouldn't, in the year 2010, be an entire nation of people living in homes that are so structurally unsound. There was a 6.5 magnitude quake centered 25 miles away from my house a few days before the Haiti quake and the only damage sustained in my area was a few fallen bricks and broken windows. Less than a week later and an entire country is leveled by an earthquake not much bigger? Clearly there is a discrepancy there that should be addressed, and hopefully this disaster is the start of people taking steps to actually solve some of the very real problems that exist within Haiti.

That being said, there are numerous problems with the article and the attitudes at its core. For one thing, it's dangerously shortsighted to have the approach that if people really wanted to live in better homes they could just build them. I'm sure if they could, they would. Are there people to blame for Haiti's issues? Of course. Are they Haitian? Many of them are. The government, as already mentioned within this thread, has been almost laughably broken for years. But are the thousands of newly orphaned children currently living in the streets and/or makeshift orphanages to blame for Haiti's infrastructure or governmental problems? Of course not. Condemning the donation of money is essentially blaming and punishing people who have done nothing but live their lives.

Additionally, there's a righteous indignation behind this attitude that really drives me crazy. Haiti's problems have existed for as long as any of us have been alive, and I'm willing to bet that Paul Shirley didn't expend much energy worrying about those problems until a month ago. It's both negligent and arrogant to discourage people from donating money to those who need it because you're all of a sudden offended by issues that have existed forever but about which you didn't give a fuck thirty days ago.

Not that this makes a HUGE difference in your post, in that I agree with a large portion of it, but don't think that a 6.5 compares to a 7.1 earthquake. The destructive power of the latter is about 11 times that of the former.

Whisky Dog
02-02-2010, 10:10 AM
Not that this makes a HUGE difference in your post, in that I agree with a large portion of it, but don't think that a 6.5 compares to a 7.1 earthquake. The destructive power of the latter is about 11 times that of the former.

Well then the numbering Richter scale system is fucked up.


I agree with the article. No matter how civilized we try to make everything at the core of our existence it's still a survival of the fittest world. Those that were talented with ambition found a way to make it out of that island and live elsewhere. We can continue to drag the weak and unmotivated in society along for the ride, but all that creates is weaker and less motivated people.

boutons_deux
02-02-2010, 10:13 AM
France and USA (the bankers and businesses and wealthy, supported by those countries' military (ie, the usual Euro-American imperialism)) have pretty much shit on Haiti for 200+ years.

The history of France and USA in Haiti is well-known, and many summation articles have popped in response to the quake. Look around. Clearly, Shirley hasn't.

As usual, 4 or 5 vampire families, corrupt to the core, conspire for generations among themselves and with foreign investors to suck out the (limited) wealth to themselves, leaving everybody else fucked (like in America with its top 5% visiting continuous class warfare on everybody else, and winning). If Americans can't win class warfare against the top 5%, how can Haitians?

eg, the USA didn't like democratically elected Aristide, so USA removed him from office, twice.

Whisky Dog
02-02-2010, 10:14 AM
What sucks though AL is there are too many people that don't want to learn how to fish and expect others to just give it to them for no reason whatsoever.

The problem is we keep giving. Offer to teach them how to help themselves, and if they refuse then let them die.

Cry Havoc
02-03-2010, 01:58 AM
Well then the numbering Richter scale system is fucked up.

The Richter Scale is no longer in use.

It is now the moment-magnitude scale. There formula behind is relatively simple. 1 step on the MM scale (a 6 vs a 5) has 31.6 times the destructive power. A 7 is 1000 times stronger than a 5.

The reason this is used is that otherwise, the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake would have been rated at over a 1,000,000 on the scale if you measured by the relative potential of energy released.

Cry Havoc
02-03-2010, 01:59 AM
it's still a survival of the fittest world

:lmao

So you're the fittest because you were born in a first world country? This kind of ridiculous self-righteousness is just appalling. You are not special or a snowflake. You're just a human being who got really fucking lucky, and you would rather lay that at the alter of being superior to people born into poverty.

L.I.T
02-03-2010, 02:11 AM
The problem is we keep giving. Offer to teach them how to help themselves, and if they refuse then let them die.

Naivete at its finest.

rjv
02-03-2010, 11:05 AM
the guy deserved to get fired. he refers to history and then goes on to demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge on the history of haiti. he is an absolute moron.

hater
02-03-2010, 12:10 PM
so we shouldn't help Haiti because their last few goverments have been corrupt???

white man hating on the black man. just another day at the office

sabar
02-04-2010, 02:43 AM
Paying for food and clothes is useless. The people need a ticket to any other country in the world. A hobo in the U.S. lives in luxury compared to their equivalent of a middle class family.

Nothing will ever change there. The people are disenfranchised to the point of being useless tools of revolution (joining N. Korea and Myanmar). The money will always go through some government which is corrupt beyond repair. Policing the world and just obliterating the government for them is unpopular at home.

Billions of dollars will find their way to that government. They will rebuild the shanty towns and line their pockets with the remainder until the next disaster. It doesn't matter whether or not money is donated as the outcome is the same. Maybe you'll live another day in misery instead of starving to death. What else can happen?

At least the disaster has people adopting the orphans and removing them from that cesspool of civilization.