Gasol, Phil Jackson upset about Kobe's shooting

[ChrisRichards]

Gasol was asked about Bryant’s new record and offered politically correct – and believably authentic – commentary (“I’m proud of him; I congratulate him”) before adding the kicker: “Now we can focus on winning games again.





Gasol had just 10 points on 4-of-7 shooting Monday and surely hoped to shine brighter in the city where he not only is already a franchise all-time scoring leader but holds 11 other all-time Grizzlies records.

“Obviously we’re not making a concerted effort at pounding the ball inside,” Gasol said after the loss.

He said he’s not sure why this plagues the Lakers despite their consistent size advantage, but added pointedly: “It happens often






Phil... "At halftime, I told everybody he's forcing the action, so let's get him over the hump so we can play some team ball.... but it looks like we never did"

lol
So it begins....

[ChrisRichards]

Tell me this Laker Fans, why does KOME shoot 30 shots a game when he has two 7 footers capable of scoring 20 points in 50% shooting?


How long will you guys defend this chucker???

[redzero]

lol the Hornets beat the Grizzlies in Memphis without Chris Paul. This should have been a blow out, but Kobe was more worried about padding his stats than winning the ball game.

[ElNono]

I told you all Kome was padding his stats since very early in the season. 21_cuckolds and company kept denying it, but the proof is right here. He's in a hurry to try to catch up to the GOAT because he knows his window is closing...

[TJastal]

<crickets chirping>

[Ice009]

Amazing stuff. Any other all time great would probably use Gasol and Bynum.

Kobe wants to play this way. Kobe is an all time great, but I don't think I like him anymore or his contrived team game. He just don't want to play a team game.

[ChrisRichards]

I think Laker fans should be concerned this season and the state of the team.



Kobe is shooting horrible yet he continues to shoot despite averaging 30% for the m,onth of January


Gasol seems to be unhappy. This is the second time Gasol had been public of his role in that team.


If the Lakers dont win it all, expect Kobe and Gasol war just like Shaq and Kome.

[in2deep]

:lmao ouch

no, I don't see Gasol fighting w/Kobe a la Shaq. gasol is one of the smartest NBA players, he will use his intelligence to get what he wants from Kobe

[TheManFromAcme]

I think Laker fans should be concerned this season and the state of the team.



Kobe is shooting horrible yet he continues to shoot despite averaging 30% for the m,onth of January


Gasol seems to be unhappy. This is the second time Gasol had been public of his role in that team.


If the Lakers dont win it all, expect Kobe and Gasol war just like Shaq and Kome.


The window is wider than just this year. Pau and Kobe will be fine. It was established long ago, and I am sure Pau was briefed, that this is still Kobe's team. Not defending Kobe. I am just saying that a fued between these 2 is highly unlikely. If it does come to it, I am confident Pau is more approachable than Shaq ever was. In other words, Pau will learn, however hard it may come to him, to take the back seat. He's no dummy. the Lakers are going to be contenders of 3-4 years or maybe longer.

[Chieflion]

In Kobe's illustrious career: 36,423 minutes and 19,271 field goal attempts, Kobe's per minutes shot attempt is appoximately 0.529.

Let us take a look at the the top 12 in total field goal attempts. Shocking numbers, I tell you. I will give you the shot attempts per minute rounded up to 3 sig fig. Most of them are bunch of chuckers, I tell you. In their career, most of them are only known for scoring and some of these guys here don't have a ring to prove that chucking wins championships. Kobe is one lucky player to win a ring. I will asterisk the players who did not win a ring, keyword being win, not gifted, like Baylor. Michael Jordan was hell of a chucker too, being the only exception to the rule. Only exeption to below the 0.53 shot mark to never win a ring was Karl Malone and above the 0.53 mark was Michael Jordan, not suprisingly, they met in the finals for 2 straight years.

12. Oscar Robertson: 0.447 (Played 43,886 minutes and took 19,620 shots)
11. Allen Iverson*: 0.53 (Played 37,505 minutes and took 19,878 shots.)
10. Elgin Baylor*: 0.596 (Played 33,863 minutes and took 20,171 shots.)
9. Hakeem Olajuwon: 0.475 (Played 44,222 minutes and took 20,991 shots.)
8. Alex English*: 0.553 (Played 38,063 minutes and took 21,036 shots.)
7. Dominique Wilkins*: 0.566 (Played 38,113 minutes and took 21,589 shots.)
6. Wilt Chamberlain: 0.491 (Played 47,859 minutes and took 23,497 shots.)
5. John Havlicek: 0.515 (Played 46,471 minutes and took 23,930 shots.)
4. Elvin Hayes: 0.485 (Played 50,000 minutes and took 24,272 shots.)
3. Michael Jordan: 0.598 (Played 41,010 minutes and took 24,573 shots.)
2. Karl Malone*: 0.478 (Played 54,852 minutes and took 26,210 shots.)
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 0.493 (Played 57,446 minutes and took 28,307 shots.)


So, Allen Iverson = chucker in most people's eyes, and he has been playing as the 1st option is almost his entire career, and he takes 0.53 shots per minute while Kobe, on the other hand, takes 0.529 shots for his entire career per minute, even though he was a bench player to start his career and no more than 2nd option until 2001-2002 (considered equals with Shaq to give Kobe even more of an edge) and chucks his way to Iverson-esque shot attempts per minute. Lucky to have a ring or not, you decide.

Sources: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_career.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fga_career.html

[TheManFromAcme]

:lmao ouch

no, I don't see Gasol fighting w/Kobe a la Shaq. gasol is one of the smartest NBA players, he will use his intelligence to get what he wants from Kobe

:tu
You, obviously get it.....

[ChrisRichards]

The window is wider than just this year. Pau and Kobe will be fine. It was established long ago, and I am sure Pau was briefed, that this is still Kobe's team. Not defending Kobe. I am just saying that a fued between these 2 is highly unlikely. If it does come to it, I am confident Pau is more approachable than Shaq ever was. In other words, Pau will learn, however hard it may come to him, to take the back seat. He's no dummy. the Lakers are going to be contenders of 3-4 years or maybe longer.
I dont think a feud will happen too but I think it will come to a point where Pau Gasol will not play with passion (as he did last year) because of A. uncertainties and B. Chemistry.


NBA Players are normal people too. They hav ego's and emotions. once Kobe breaks this trust, he will regret it for the rest of his life.


Gasol has been very generous with his second banana role, but right now I think KOME is taking this too far ignoring Gasol's importance to the Lakers.

[stretch]

Michael Jordan was hell of a chucker too, and he had a losing record in his career to prove chucking doesn't win games, even though he had 6 rings.

:wtf kinda curious as to where you found this stat

[Chieflion]

:wtf kinda curious as to where you found this stat
Damn it, the stat was actually Jordan without Pippen. Kinda late here. My thoughts are a little screwed up. Just read the calulations and you will be fine. Decide for yourselves whether Kobe is a chucker or not. I will go edit my post now. Jordan was actually the only exception to the 0.53 benchmark. To be fair, Kobe won the championship jacking up 0.578 shots per minute. So, he can be included in that exception too. This season, he is jacking up 0.586 shots per game.

Comparision of Kobe By=ryant and Jordan (damn, he shoots a lot too, if English chucked the most, I would use him as a comparsion.)
Kobe's chucking season of 2005-2006: 0.663 shots per minute
Jordan's chucking season of 1986-1987: 0.695 shots per minute

Jordan, biggest chucker of all-time, but at least when he shoots a lot, his team actually wins.

[z0sa]

Kobe riding another big man out of town would be priceless.

[lefty]

Kob meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeee

[TheManFromAcme]

I dont think a feud will happen too but I think it will come to a point where Pau Gasol will not play with passion (as he did last year) because of A. uncertainties and B. Chemistry.


NBA Players are normal people too. They hav ego's and emotions. once Kobe breaks this trust, he will regret it for the rest of his life.


Gasol has been very generous with his second banana role, but right now I think KOME is taking this too far ignoring Gasol's importance to the Lakers.

If this dynamic is at play than Kobe can only blame Kobe. Look, the loss aside, anyone with a decent b-ball brain knows this team is stacked. Stacked enough to beat even the highly touted Cavs. Kobe is just as hungry this year as last if not more. This isn't the 20-21 year old Kobe. I am somewhat confident he'll gather himself and take a good look at his weaknesess no matter how much people think he's in denial to bring this team back up to speed and win another one. He maybe selfish but he's not stupid either.

[DazedAndConfused]

I don't think it can be overstated enough how stupid ChrisRichard aka MiamiHeat aka Stretch aka JT aka Mono is.

[ChrisRichards]

I don't think it can be overstated enough how stupid ChrisRichard aka MiamiHeat aka Stretch aka JT aka Mono is.
This idiot will suck Kobe's cock and will gladly pay Kome for this doing so. :toast

[Ice009]

If this dynamic is at play than Kobe can only blame Kobe. Look, the loss aside, anyone with a decent b-ball brain knows this team is stacked. Stacked enough to beat even the highly touted Cavs. Kobe is just as hungry this year as last if not more. This isn't the 20-21 year old Kobe. I am somewhat confident he'll gather himself and take a good look at his weaknesess no matter how much people think he's in denial to bring this team back up to speed and win another one. He maybe selfish but he's not stupid either.

You've put that too nicely for Kobe, but it is a pretty good statement. He will force himself to pass the ball as he usually does when he realizes he can't win shit by playing this way.

[TheManFromAcme]

Thanks Ice. That's really all I was trying to say.
Thanks for the ups..:tu

[TheGreatest23]

Tell me this Laker Fans, why does KOME shoot 30 shots a game when he has two 7 footers capable of scoring 20 points in 50% shooting?


How long will you guys defend this chucker???

And how many times are you gonna start a thread saying the same thing, discussing the same thing?!

Troll recognize Troll.

Now bow down to The King, bitch.

[Sportcamper]

Kobe also leads the Lakers in assists…Does anyone here seriously believe that he would take more shots to pad his statistics….This thread is too darn funny…:lol

[Ice009]

Thanks Ice. That's really all I was trying to say.
Thanks for the ups..:tu

It was a pretty good way to sum it up I thought. I mean Kobe is smart like you said. That is why he is not Ricky Davis or Stephon Marbury. Those guys had no clue what was going on.

I don't know, but I really think this is the example why I don't like Kobe. Can you guys understand where some of the hate comes from now? I just don't like that sort of game and to me it looks contrived most of the time when Kobe passes the ball. Not like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan they play a team game where the only thing that counts is the win. Stats don't mean a thing.

[Brazil]

Tell me this Laker Fans, why does KOME shoot 30 shots a game when he has two 7 footers capable of scoring 20 points in 50% shooting?


How long will you guys defend this chucker???

last night Kobe was not shooting > 50 % ?

[TheMACHINE]

"I dont like Kobe cuz he dont pass"...wah wah! go fucking cry some more. If you dont like Kobe cuz he dont pass the ball...go fucking sniff Cp3 or steve nash's jock strap then. Noone gives a flying fuck if you guys dont like Kobe.

have a nice day.

[TheManFromAcme]

It was a pretty good way to sum it up I thought. I mean Kobe is smart like you said. That is why he is not Ricky Davis or Stephon Marbury. Those guys had no clue what was going on.

I don't know, but I really think this is the example why I don't like Kobe. Can you guys understand where some of the hate comes from now? I just don't like that sort of game and to me it looks contrived most of the time when Kobe passes the ball. Not like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan they play a team game where the only thing that counts is the win. Stats don't mean a thing.

With you. It's all about the win. I know he wants to cement his legacy and deservedly so but if he's doing what is being claimed then, yeah, he doesn't shine a light to the Magic's and Bird's of the game, IF he is indeed playing selfishly. I am honest enough to admit I turn the other cheek but I do tend to turn around and see some aspects of his game that, well, confuse me at times. I am hoping he realizes that because although the twilight of his career is still way yonder over there on the horizon, it's approaching him and winning more LOB's for the franchise would probably solidfy his legacy much more than an individual milestone or stat.

[Will Hunting]

I don't think it can be overstated enough how stupid ChrisRichard aka MiamiHeat aka Stretch aka JT aka Mono is.


America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat.

[ffadicted]

When will laker fans at least admit there's a flaw to Kobe's game? I mean, at least spurs fans admit Manu's old/Jefferson has failed so far/Bonner sucks balls/TD lost a step on D/Parker is off/etc... Kobe isn't perfect, and it's not like this no passing shit is knew, it's just who he is, a volume shooter, not a point guard. In some games that'll work for you, but yesterday it didn't, and it won't on a lot of nights. Kobe's playing with the best frontcourt in the NBA, and becomes a blackhole on the offensive end sometimes, there's no denying that, just the same as there is no denying Kobe is one of the greatest scorers of all time, and still probably the best in the NBA.

It is what is is

[024]

i rather watch kobe chuck a contested jump shot than watch pau and bynum shoot high percentage shots in the low post. keep it up kobe. don't let others tell you you're not good enough. keep shooting.

[TheMACHINE]

Kobe shoots 58% last night, and you guys are whining about him taking too many shots in a 2 point loss on the road.

I can understand this kind of thread when he shot 30% in 35 shots, but this is plain retarted.

[TheMACHINE]

i rather watch kobe chuck a contested jump shot than watch pau and bynum shoot high percentage shots in the low post. keep it up kobe. don't let others tell you you're not good enough. keep shooting.

yah keep shooting...whooop on the Spurs ass some more and get another ring like LAST YEAR.

[JamStone]

Kobe's selfish? Kobe's a chucker? Kobe shoots a lot?

Stop the presses! This is breaking news.

We know. We all know. That's how it is. That's how it's going to be.

This is beyond obsession at this point.

[024]

i'm going to add this quote in this thread since chrisrichards/miamiheat missed it.

Are the Lakers a better team when they go inside? "One hundred percent," Gasol said.

Does everybody know that?

"I'm not sure," he said.

[ambchang]

You Kobe haters are just despicable. You have to realize that this is not about Kobe, it's about Kobe's fans. You are not dissing on some guy who would never read your posts, you are dissing the legions and legions of Kobe fans who frequents this forum.

You are dismissing the greatest accomplishments of their lives, and it is downright cruel.

Besides, why does it matter to Kobe's fans that Kobe doesn't pass? They knew, they all knew. They don't care about the Laker's success unless it has something to help boost up Kobe. They still love him despite Kobe throwing his teammates, and even the organization, under the bus time and time again. The Lakers are merely an extremely well-ran organization that allows Kobe to win 4 titles.

[j.dizzle]

LOL maybe if Pau mans up & stops playing like a sissy, he'll get the ball.

[angelbelow]

TBH Gasol has always been an awkward interviewee. He often says something that can be taken offensively.

[DDS4]

I think they should be more upset why Kobe isn't shutting it down for a couple of weeks when there's a bigger picture at stake.

[IronMexican]

Bynum has a bigger gripe than Pau Gasol. He's been playing like a pussy lately.

[The Gemini Method]

Bynum looked tentative out there in Memphis. I don't know if because he posts here, he got kind've shell shocked and wanted to just make it out of Tenn. alive. It seemed to me that Gasol was being boxed out and denied position quite often by his brother and other Grizzlie defenders. There were positions where Gasol/Bynum/Artest would shoot the ball in the paint and there'd be a collapse in the lane.

The whole game was discombobulated and you kind've knew Kobe would go for the record. I hope the team plays better on Wednesday because the dreaded Charlotte Bobcats are in town and I'm attending the game...

[j.dizzle]

Bynum has a bigger gripe than Pau Gasol. He's been playing like a pussy lately.
Son, nobody on this site realizes that Pau has been playing like garbage lately, constantly fumbling the ball n shit..Bynum on the other hand didnt look like he wanted the ball out of fear cuz of the Memphis injuries from the past. Odom took 9 shots & only made 2 of em..Artest was the only other player other that showed up.

[DAF86]

Kobe also leads the Lakers in assists…Does anyone here seriously believe that he would take more shots to pad his statistics….This thread is too darn funny…:lol

Phill Jackson and Pau Gasol seem to think so.

[IronMexican]

Son, nobody on this site realizes that Pau has been playing like garbage lately, constantly fumbling the ball n shit..Bynum on the other hand didnt look like he wanted the ball out of fear cuz of the Memphis injuries of the past. Odom took 9 shots & only made 2 of em..Artest was the only other player other that showed up.

Don't forget that Fisher shot something abysmal.


I'm not a Kobe fan by any means(You can look at Sunday's gameday thread for proof), but Kobe was the only reason LA was in the game yesterday.

[TheMACHINE]

You Kobe haters are just despicable. You have to realize that this is not about Kobe, it's about Kobe's fans. You are not dissing on some guy who would never read your posts, you are dissing the legions and legions of Kobe fans who frequents this forum.

You are dismissing the greatest accomplishments of their lives, and it is downright cruel.

Besides, why does it matter to Kobe's fans that Kobe doesn't pass? They knew, they all knew. They don't care about the Laker's success unless it has something to help boost up Kobe. They still love him despite Kobe throwing his teammates, and even the organization, under the bus time and time again. The Lakers are merely an extremely well-ran organization that allows Kobe to win 4 titles.

You contradict yourself so many times in this post. Like i said before... 2008 finals, 2009 championship, first place in the west. you really think us Lakers fans should be whining over something as petty as "Kobe doesnt pass". I'd be more worried about your mediocre franchise in San Antonio.

[DAF86]

Kobe's selfish? Kobe's a chucker? Kobe shoots a lot?

Stop the presses! This is breaking news.

We know. We all know. That's how it is. That's how it's going to be.

This is beyond obsession at this point.

No, it's not, but his coach and teammates calling him out for doing it is, which was this thread's subject.

[j.dizzle]

You contradict yourself so many times in this post. Like i said before... 2008 finals, 2009 championship, first place in the west. you really think us Lakers fans should be whining over something as petty as "Kobe doesnt pass". I'd be more worried about your mediocre franchise in San Antonio.
Dont worry about em, they know their teams window is pretty damn close to shutting so they gotta take out their anger on the teams or players that piss them off. :toast

[TheMACHINE]

Phill Jackson and Pau Gasol seem to think so.

Phil Jackson also talks trash about San Antonio. Does anyone really care?

[TheMACHINE]

No, it's not, but his coach and teammates calling him out for doing it is, which was this thread's subject.

lets wait till someone says "kobe needs to pass me the ball" before we say teammates are "calling him out"

[The Gemini Method]

I'm guessing, while I'm at the game on Wednesday, they're going to feed the ball inside. At least for a good portion of the 1st half. I don't know why everyone decides it is best to go away from what works in this team. Maybe its Kobe or maybe its a combination of Kobe, Fisher, Farmar, and Brown--who are all guilty (esp. Jordan) of taking ill-advised shots. One and done way too many times last night. Gasol definitely hasn't been keeping his 2009 mantra of playing tough and Bynum has to develop more consistency. Kobe also needs to stop worrying about the records and passed the ball. Artest needs to make that wide open shot. I wonder if Ariza would've canned that 3 at the end of the game...

[cobbler]

Gasol 2009 championship year 12.9 FGA, 57% avg, 3.5 assists
2010 until now... 12.0 FGA, 53% avg, 3.3 assists

Kobe 2009 championship year 20.9 FGA, 46% avg, 4.9 assists
2010 until now... 22.6 FGA, 46% avg, 4.7 assists

So Kobe is averaging 1.5 more shots a game and Pau is averaging 1 less shot a game compared to last years title team. Kobes and Paus assists totals are almost identical to lasts years. Kobes FG% is the same as last year and Gasols is down 4%. So you shoot 4% shittier and you lose one shot attempt a game because of it. WOW! Breaking news there!

Gasol and PJ both made their comments tongue in cheek and were refering to moving forward concentrating on basketball as opposed to the medias (as well as Kobe and the teams) focus on Kobe breaking Wests record. Of couse the Kobessors make something more of it that it actually is. After all.... their lives revolve around Kobe.

[Pelicans78]

Kobe once said in 2003 that Shaq's job was to focus on rebounding and defense. He feels the same way about Bynum and Gasol.

[TheMACHINE]

Kobe once said in 2003 that Shaq's job was to focus on rebounding and defense. He feels the same way about Bynum and Gasol.

based on Marc Gasol and Randolphs numbers last night? Would you disagree?

[FkLA]

When will laker fans at least admit there's a flaw to Kobe's game? I mean, at least spurs fans admit Manu's old/Jefferson has failed so far/Bonner sucks balls/TD lost a step on D/Parker is off/etc... Kobe isn't perfect, and it's not like this no passing shit is knew, it's just who he is, a volume shooter, not a point guard. In some games that'll work for you, but yesterday it didn't, and it won't on a lot of nights. Kobe's playing with the best frontcourt in the NBA, and becomes a blackhole on the offensive end sometimes, there's no denying that, just the same as there is no denying Kobe is one of the greatest scorers of all time, and still probably the best in the NBA.

It is what is is

Exactly. Its like Kobe is perfect and has no flaws the way these Laker fans/Kobe nuthuggers make it seem. Laker fan arguing Kobe is unselfish is like me arguing that Tim Duncan is the most athletically gifted basketball player of all-time. Kobe's selfishness is well documented I dont understand why its so hard to simply admit thats the way he is. Even more baffling is how much these people defend and love Kobe...dude ran Shaq out of town ending a dynasty, than when things were rough demanded a trade. How people even have the nerve to put him in the same class as people like Magic or West that bleed purple in gold is beyond me. You think they'd ever ask for a trade?


Kobe shoots 58% last night, and you guys are whining about him taking too many shots in a 2 point loss on the road.

I can understand this kind of thread when he shot 30% in 35 shots, but this is plain retarted.

You are aware that he's basically been shooting 30% on 35 shots for the last month or two right? Also its not the fact that he shot 58% that people are criticizing its the fact that noone else was involved in the offense. And the fact that the game didnt develope into Kobe needing to take over the way he did, its that he made it that without giving a fuck about his teammates. You know damn well he didnt just want to break the record with a normal performance he wanted it to be a memorable one, that was his mindset. Pau and PJ basically said that in a more subtle manner.

[TheMACHINE]

You know damn well he didnt just want to break the record with a normal performance he wanted it to be a memorable one, that was his mindset. Pau and PJ basically said that in a more subtle manner.

I guess you damn well DIDNT know that he mentioned before the game that he rather break the record at home in LA. Is it his fault that the Lakers went down by 9- 10 point in the second quarter while he sat on the bench?

look at the numbers.
Kobe +4
Gasol -7
Bynum -4
Artest -1
Fisher -12

I understand you haters finding ways to make Kobe Bryant look bad. Thats what you guys do. I dont like when he shoots for 30% with 35 shots either, but when a thread is made specifically the day after he passed up the ball to Artest for the last shot and made 58% of his fg's, i think thats pretty petty and pathetic.

[FkLA]

So Im guessing PJ and Pau are just being petty and pathetic haters? His coach and best teammate just said he was forcing it...Pau saw it, PJ saw it, and anyone that isnt a Kobe nuthugger saw it--the game didnt develope into Kobe needing to take over, Kobe made it into that from the get go. Why do you guys go so out of your way to defend something thats so obvious?

[JamStone]

Before last night, Memphis was 11-1 in their previous 12 home games, including wins over Denver, San Antonio, Phoenix, Orlando, Oklahoma City, and Utah. Plus, it was the 8th game for the Lakers on their 8 game road trip. I think the Kobe bashing is quite exaggerated.

Kobe absolutely can be selfish. I also think Kobe is what kept the game close. If his teammates want the ball more, they have to be more aggressive. They have to make hustle plays to get more opportunities, get offensive rebounds for easy putbacks, get loose balls to get a transition bucket, move without the ball so when they do get the ball, they might have a good, open look. I forget what game it was, but one of the last Lakers games I watched, I saw Shannon Brown come in the game, be aggressive, take good, open jumpers, got out in the open court, aggressively attack the rim, and he was scoring and getting his touches. Part of it is Kobe's fault, but a good deal of it is on guys like Pau and Bynum and Odom to be more assertive when they're on the court. They already know what it's like to play with Kobe. I think it was last season or the season before where Lamar was quoted as saying that he knows Kobe's going to get his shots so he can't worry about Kobe and he has to be aggressive and find his own shots. If Pau and Bynum want more shots, then they should stop being pussies, and demand the ball.

[JamStone]

I interpret Phil's quote as much criticizing everyone else for not being assertive enough and allowing Kobe to play that way as it is him trying to send a message to Kobe.

And Pau needs to actually demand the ball on the court instead of whining about it to the media. Maybe he's just upset that he got bullied by little brother.

[TheMACHINE]

So Im guessing PJ and Pau are just being petty and pathetic haters? His coach and best teammate just said he was forcing it...Pau saw it, PJ saw it, and anyone that isnt a Kobe nuthugger saw it--the game didnt develope into Kobe needing to take over, Kobe made it into that from the get go. Why do you guys go so out of your way to defend something thats so obvious?

Did you watch the game?

[Cane]

You'd think that if Bynum and Gasol was on your team they'd have more than a combined 10 FGA. Bynum only had three shot attempts. Fisher on the other hand had 6.

Refreshing to see Phil Jackson and teammates get on Kobe's case since its usually Kobe trying to pander to the media.

[crc21209]

"I dont like Kobe cuz he dont pass"...wah wah! go fucking cry some more. If you dont like Kobe cuz he dont pass the ball...go fucking sniff Cp3 or steve nash's jock strap then. Noone gives a flying fuck if you guys dont like Kobe.

have a nice day.

Oooo touchy touchy are we? :lol...Go suck him off why dont you?!? :lol

[024]

it's hard to get into a rhythm when your shooting guard is chucking up a shot every possession. players need the ball in their hands to feel out their defenders and adapt to the game. can't hog the ball for 44 minutes and then expect your teammates to come through the last 4 minutes.

[bostonguy]

Kobe has a habit of trying to do too much sometimes. Kobe is DEADLIEST when he mixes it up.

[FkLA]

Did you watch the game?

No. But again are you suggesting the box score isnt indicative of what actually happened in the game? Are you suggesting the quotes made by Pau and PJ are just fabricated? Your boy shot 28 shots. The rest of the entire line-up shot 25. Andrew Bynum only shot 3, Pau Gasol 7.

How in the world can you argue that Kobe played good team basketball after that. Or that the game developed into him having to take over when the rest of his teammates never even got a chance to show that they were having an off-night, which is the only way Kobe chucking could be justified.

[Banzai]

Kobe has a habit of trying to do too much sometimes. Kobe is DEADLIEST when he mixes it up.

problem is..he doesn't seem to want to mix it up..or when he does..his teammates don't produce...which then makes him go into jacking up shots whenever he can.

[FkLA]

problem is..he doesn't seem to want to mix it up..or when he does..his teammates don't produce...which then makes him go into jacking up shots whenever he can.

:toast

Finally a fucking Laker fan that is willing to criticize the great Mambian god. He is a great player but some of you seriously act like he can do no wrong. Selfishness has always been Kobe's problem, he needs to trust his teammates whether theyre on or off. He already proved that he cant carry the team alone when he averaged 35 ppg.

[resistanze]

I'm more angry at Kobe because he passed up the last shot.

[cobbler]

I don't know where to start. Your post is outright fabrication and I guess I will start at the top.


Exactly. Its like Kobe is perfect and has no flaws the way these Laker fans/Kobe nuthuggers make it seem. Laker fan arguing Kobe is unselfish is like me arguing that Tim Duncan is the most athletically gifted basketball player of all-time. Kobe's selfishness is well documented I dont understand why its so hard to simply admit thats the way he is.

How many times does Laker fans have to say we know Kobe has flaws. We know he is a volumn shooter. Many shooting guards are. How many times does Laker fan have to say we are ok with his flaws and are happy he plays for our team regardless fo you Kobessors to understand that we just dont care how many times you point out the very same obvious comments over and over and over. We get it. You dont like Kobe. Why don't you get that we do and leave it at that? Why are you obsessed to win over a Laker fan?


Even more baffling is how much these people defend and love Kobe...dude ran Shaq out of town ending a dynasty, than when things were rough demanded a trade. How people even have the nerve to put him in the same class as people like Magic or West that bleed purple in gold is beyond me. You think they'd ever ask for a trade?

Completely wrong with no base in fact. Just your biased hatred showing through. Kobe did not run Shaq out of town. Shaq ran Shaq out of town. Its been, as you are found of saying, "well documented" that Shaq got on Jerry Buss's wrong side during the pre season and said things there was no going back from. Dr Buss made a basketball and financial decision that was in fact the correct one and all concerned have made their respective comments that Kobe had relatively little to do with Shaqs departure. Even Shaq has said so for gods sake.

Ohhhh and wrong again. Magic did even better. He demanded the coach be removed or to trade him. That is how Pat Riley got his start. You really should research before making yourself look so foolish.



You are aware that he's basically been shooting 30% on 35 shots for the last month or two right? Also its not the fact that he shot 58% that people are criticizing its the fact that noone else was involved in the offense. And the fact that the game didnt develope into Kobe needing to take over the way he did, its that he made it that without giving a fuck about his teammates. You know damn well he didnt just want to break the record with a normal performance he wanted it to be a memorable one, that was his mindset. Pau and PJ basically said that in a more subtle manner.

You are aware he is shooting 46% on the season with an average of 22.6 shots as compared to lifetime 46% on 20.9 shots right? I think the fact that hes at the same level with a broken index finger on his shooting hand is nothing short of remarkable. You on the other had can take that 1.5 extra shots he's taking and blow it out of proportion all you want.

Maybe Pau, Odum, Bynum, and Fish should have shot better than 8-25 (32%) to command the ball more. Your own daily ranting says Kobe while shooting 30% should feed the other guys shooting 50% + more. EVERY FRIGGEN DAY! So why isn't it the same when the tables are turned? Why arent you and all the Kobsessors bashing on Pau and company who shot 32% not feeding the guy shooting 58% on the night? Ohhh but that doesn't fit into your Hater agenda does it?

Has he had some games where hes shot too much... of course. Does it even out over the season, of course. Is he one of the top players to ever play the game, of course. Is he a proven winner, of course. Are the majority of Laker fans happy he's plays for us, of course. Are you going to ever convince us we are better off without him or that he's some scrub player. Never.

The big question is... why is it so important for all you Kobessors to even try?

[milkshakeballa]

Come on Laker fans....

Kobe was JACKING shit up last night...you don't agree with this??? He has been jacking shit up for the past month....why I have no clue. The guy has a broken fuckign finger and he is still launching shit up. It is ridiculous. This Lakers team has one of the top 20 front courts in NBA history...and we are playing outside in. it is FUCKING mind boggling and frustrating. And it isn't just Kobe....Fisher jacks up ridiculous shit quite often, Farmar is a selfish punk asss bitch, Brown has struggled the last few weeks and cannot initiate the tri. Pau should be at 15 shots a game MINIMUM and Drew should be at 12-13.


I do think Kobe realizes this...I honestly just don't think he gives a fuck right now. Come playoff time though....I think everybody here knows Kobe is going to be dominating scoring AND facilitating and will keep the selfish bullshit at the door...

[milkshakeballa]

Maybe Pau, Odum, Bynum, and Fish should have shot better than 8-25 (32%) to command the ball more. Your own daily ranting says Kobe while shooting 30% should feed the other guys shooting 50% + more. EVERY FRIGGEN DAY! So why isn't it the same when the tables are turned? Why arent you and all the Kobsessors bashing on Pau and company who shot 32% not feeding the guy shooting 58% on the night? Ohhh but that doesn't fit into your Hater agenda does it?

Has he had some games where hes shot too much... of course. Does it even out over the season, of course. Is he one of the top players to ever play the game, of course. Is he a proven winner, of course. Are the majority of Laker fans happy he's palyes for us, of course. Are you going to ever convince us we are better off without him or that he's some scrub player. Never.

The big question is... why is it so important for all you Kobessors to even try?

Cobbler...I agree with your earlier commentary in the post but this is bullshit.

You are using ONE game to illustrate Kobe should be jacking up the shit he does. Yes...Pau and company had a bad game...but fuck it doesn't mean Kobe should have been puttign that shit up yesterday. Do you honestly think he is goign to shoot as good as he did yesterday for the rest of the season?? I mean the guy had a WIDE OPEN 3 and banked it in....his finger is FUCKED UP.


Do you agree Pau should be getting a minimum of 15 shots (and a LARGE AMOUNT of touches....almost every time down the floor to initiate the tri)??

Do you agree Drew should be at 12-13 shots a game??


Don't you think we are a MUCH MUCH mroe dangerous team when Kobe is right at 18 shots a game with 6+ assists and Pau and Drew both have double digit shot attempts???


I mean....we have the BIGGEST advantage that any team has in the NBA right now in our big men and Kobe this past month fucking IGNORED it.

[j-money24]

Ok we get it, Kobe sucks.

[FkLA]

How many times does Laker fans have to say we know Kobe has flaws. We know he is a volumn shooter. Many shooting guards are. How many times does Laker fan have to say we are ok with his flaws and are happy he plays for our team regardless fo you Kovessors to understand that we just dont care how many times you point out the very same obvious comments over and over and over. We get it. You dont like Kobe. Why don't you get that we do and leave it at that? Why are you obsessed to win over a Laker fan?

We'll you guys obviously arent leaving it at that either so that works both ways...

And very few Laker fan actually fess up to Kobe's flaws. There are so many Laker fans that are Kobe fans before they are Laker fans.


Completely wrong with no base in fact. Just your biased hatred showing through. Kobe did not run Shaq out of town. Shaq ran Shaq out of town. Its been, as you are found of saying, "well documented" that Shaq got on Jerry Buss's wrong side during the pre season and said things there was no going back from. Dr Buss made a basketball and financial decision that was in fact the correct one and all concerned have made their respective comments that Kobe had relatively little to do with Shaqs departure. Even Shaq has said so for gods sake.

Ohhhh and wrong again. Magic did even better. He demanded the coach be removed or to trade him. That is how Pat Riley got his start. You really should research before making yourself look so foolish.

And that had nothing to do with Kobe and Shaq's feud right? Shaq's "pay me" remarks had alot to do with him challenging Buss to pick one or the other. Kobe had the same mindset and had already acknowledged that he wasnt willing to play second fiddle.

Did he really? Not saying he didnt, but I'd like a link since I find it surprising. Either way it seems like it may have been more of a feud with the coach than with the organization itself. Kobe on the other hand was basically ready to give up on the team because things werent going his way.


You are aware he is shooting 46% on the season with an average of 22.6 shots as compared to lifetime 46% on 20.9 shots right? I think the fact that hes at the same level with a broken index finger on his shooting hand is nothing short of remarkable. You on the other had can take that 1.5 extra shots he's taking and blow it out of proportion all you want.

Maybe Pau, Odum, Bynum, and Fish should have shot better than 8-25 (32%) to command the ball more. Your own daily ranting says Kobe while shooting 30% should feed the other guys shooting 50% + more. EVERY FRIGGEN DAY! So why isn't it the same when the tables are turned? Why arent you and all the Kobsessors bashing on Pau and company who shot 32% not feeding the guy shooting 58% on the night? Ohhh but that doesn't fit into your Hater agenda does it?

Has he had some games where hes shot too much... of course. Does it even out over the season, of course. Is he one of the top players to ever play the game, of course. Is he a proven winner, of course. Are the majority of Laker fans happy he's palyes for us, of course. Are you going to ever convince us we are better off without him or that he's some scrub player. Never.

The big question is... why is it so important for all you Kobessors to even try?

You are aware I said he's been shooting around 30% on 30 shots over the last month or so right? Regarding the injury, it is a small bone chip break. It happens with severely jammed fingers, so no I do not find it remarkable. I just find it to be another case of the media hyping Kobe's legend, just like they make a big deal out of his "aching back" or "hobbled ankle". The same type of shit that players used to be expected to play through rather than be glorified as warriors.

And its kind of dumb to compare 30% on 30 shots by one player to 30% on 3 shots by Bynum dont you think? Or 7 shots by Gasol? Like I said Id understand if those guys were having off-nights and the game developed into Kobe needing to take over because the other guys werent doing shit, but when those guys never even get a chance to get into a rythm or prove that theyre indeed having an off-night than I dont see no justification to Kobe's chucking. He shot more shots than the rest of the entire starting line-up combined.

Also for the record, Ive given Kobe his props. He's still the second best player in the game and one of the all-time greats...I just have a problem with Kobe fans that act like he can do no wrong. The guy has had problems with trusting teammates and selfishness his entire career yet youd never know that the way some of you guys talk about him.

[ambchang]

You contradict yourself so many times in this post. Like i said before... 2008 finals, 2009 championship, first place in the west. you really think us Lakers fans should be whining over something as petty as "Kobe doesnt pass". I'd be more worried about your mediocre franchise in San Antonio.

LOL. I stated that Kobe fans do not care about the Laker franchise, all they care about are things that relate to Kobe, then you bring out the 2008 and 2009 Finals as some kind of vindication for Kobe. Let me spell this out for you. Kobe fans only state success of the Lakers when it helps in an argument to make Kobe as better than he is. It doesn't matter than the Laker franchise was arguably the best ran franchise in NBA history (due to a variety of reasons), the Lakers' success of the past decade (ie. last 4 rings) could be solely attributed to Kobe. When the Lakers fail to make the playoffs/got booted in the 1st round, it's because the franchise didn't get the right teammates for Kobe to shine.

And I don't really worry too much about the Spurs. They are what they are. The Spurs winning a championship doesn't make me a better person, unlike the profound effects the Lakers winning has to do with you.

[in2deep]

Everything will be well in LA. It's not like Kobe has Will Perdue playing next to him.

[djohn2oo8]

LOL. I stated that Kobe fans do not care about the Laker franchise, all they care about are things that relate to Kobe, then you bring out the 2008 and 2009 Finals as some kind of vindication of Kobe.

And I don't really worry too much about the Spurs. They are what they are. The Spurs winning a championship doesn't make me a better person, unlike the profound effects the Lakers winning has to do with you.

Spot on....

[cobbler]

You are using ONE game to illustrate Kobe should be jacking up the shit he does. Yes...Pau and company had a bad game...but fuck it doesn't mean Kobe should have been puttign that shit up yesterday. Do you honestly think he is goign to shoot as good as he did yesterday for the rest of the season?? I mean the guy had a WIDE OPEN 3 and banked it in....his finger is FUCKED UP.

No I don't think he will shoot as good the rest of the season as yesterday. Of course he has shot too much ove the last 10 games or so. Where I differ from a lot of people is I don't entirely blame Kobe. Jamstone touched on this. Players need to be mor agressive and move. If they are going to stand around...then yes Kobe will take it. If they move and cut and get open the ball moves and the Lakers are poetry. It's not often you see a guy make a solid cut or move and Kobe will ignore him. Come on. But if they are just standing around then he is definetly going to be the agressor. Last night. Pau was a fumbling mess. Andrew looked like he was playing timid and just wanted out of Memphis healthy. Fish sucked. The only players showing any aggression at all were Kobe, Brown, and Ron.

My point wasnt that Kobe is going to shoot 58% everynight. It was why are we hearing about him being unselfish when his shots were down over the last weeks, his % was up, and the others in the cast were playing like shit? Moronic in my opinion and just shows that the haters hate regardless of the actual facts.


Do you agree Pau should be getting a minimum of 15 shots (and a LARGE AMOUNT of touches....almost every time down the floor to initiate the tri)??

Yes on principle. But that changes game to game as you know and Pau has been shitty last 3 to 5 games. He was a bumbling mess last night.


Do you agree Drew should be at 12-13 shots a game??

see above... some nights I would give drew or pau the ball 25 times... other 5. Depends on the night they are having.



Don't you think we are a MUCH MUCH mroe dangerous team when Kobe is right at 18 shots a game with 6+ assists and Pau and Drew both have double digit shot attempts???

I like when hes around 21-22 shots. I have no problems with his assists numbers. I also think you will see a huge shift in emphasis from Kobe over the next 2 months from offense to defense.


I mean....we have the BIGGEST advantage that any team has in the NBA right now in our big men and Kobe this past month fucking IGNORED it.

At times Kobe has ignored them. But lets be honest here. The ball is in Fish, Farmar, and Browns hands too. The most glaring weakness of this Laker team is the post entry pass. There is enough blame to go around for everyone as to why the Lakers are not playing the way they are capable. To toss all the blame on Kobe is just as absurd if not more than to give him none.

Haters just gotta hate and I love that its our guy they hate on. Makes me smile to know the Miami/Chris/Harlem/FkLa's all get bent out of shape. So much so that they post about our player more than all the Laker fans combined. Classic!

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe's "ball-hogging" is one of the most played out arguments of this decade..

I never understand why my fellow haters like to point it out all the time, it just gives Laker fan ammunition for a counter-attack..

There's no doubt that he had to shoot a lot with a relatively poor supporting cast in 2005 and 2006..I never understood why anybody would criticize him for that, there was nobody else on those teams that could consistently produce..Kobe shooting a lot was the best option..it's not like he was inefficient, he had normal efficiency..

yes, he's shooting a lot right now, but his usage % isn't any different than it was during the playoffs of the last 2 years..the Lakers made the Finals in one of the years and they won the title in the other..he isn't getting any more touches than he did in those 2 successful seasons, so I don't really see why people have to point that out against him..it's especially strange to point it out following a game where he had one of his most efficient games in months..


Kobe is extremely overhyped, he's a POS, he's selfish in every aspect of the game(not ball-hogging, but personality-wise), he's too arrogant, he's fake, he's probably a rapist..his organization, Al-Quobe, is one of the most disgusting terrorist fanbase on the planet..but you can't really hate on him for this kind of stuff, it doesn't make too much sense..

[TheMACHINE]

And I don't really worry too much about the Spurs. They are what they are. The Spurs winning a championship doesn't make me a better person, unlike the profound effects the Lakers winning has to do with you.

spoken like a fan of a team that only won 4 rings in the past 50 years :toast

[TheMACHINE]

Did you watch the game?


No.

Ok. Then STFU.

[NBAfan83]

Maybe Kobe heard too many Kobe can't win anything without Pau Gasol and decided to impose his will, so that everyone who cares knows that the lakers is Kobe Bryant's team and he wins championship with little help?

Who knows, when your a genius, your bound to be fucked up in the head in one way or another.

[cobbler]

We'll you guys obviously arent leaving it at that either so that works both ways...

And very few Laker fan actually fess up to Kobe's flaws. There are so many Laker fans that are Kobe fans before they are Laker fans.


Who started the thread? A Kobe hater. Who starts the majority of the Kobe threads here? Kobe/Laker Haters. What does it matter when you become a fan or why. I have been a Laker fan long before you were born so does than make me any MORE of a fan than someone who just became one this year or last? I don't think so. Again, I don't see the relevance.


And that had nothing to do with Kobe and Shaq's feud right? Shaq's "pay me" remarks had alot to do with him challenging Buss to pick one or the other. Kobe had the same mindset and had already acknowledged that he wasnt willing to play second fiddle.

So thank you for admitting that is was actually Shaqs actions that put Buss in choose one or the other mode. But the facts are Buss made his decision based on finances and work ethic. And all parties have acknowledged it. SO to say "kobe ran shaq" out of town is just plain inflamitory and you know it.


Did he really? Not saying he didnt, but I'd like a link since I find it surprising. Either way it seems like it may have been more of a feud with the coach than with the organization itself. Kobe on the other hand was basically ready to give up on the team because things werent going his way.


Johnson and the Lakers rebounded in 1981-82, winning their division and defeating the 76ers in another six-game NBA Finals in which Johnson repeated as MVP. The season also had its share of ugliness. Early on, Westhead wanted to restructure the offense in a way that Johnson believed would have reduced his role. In a widely reported incident, Johnson exploded in the lockerroom after a game in Utah. "I can't play here anymore. I want to leave. I want to be traded," he was quoted as saying. Reporters waited for the signal that Johnson was joking. It didn't come.

Westhead was fired the next day and replaced with assistant coach Pat Riley. At Riley's first home game, fans at the Forum booed Johnson during introductions. In Seattle he was jeered whenever he touched the ball. He paid the price in the All-Star balloting and was not selected as a starter for the only time in his career other than his injury season. It took Johnson's stellar playoff performance to silence the hecklers.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/johnsonm_bio.html



You are aware I said he's been shooting around 30% on 30 shots over the last month or so right? Regarding the injury, it is a small bone chip break. It happens with severely jammed fingers, so no I do not find it remarkable. I just find it to be another case of the media hyping Kobe's legend, just like they make a big deal out of his "aching back" or "hobbled ankle". The same type of shit that players used to be expected to play through rather than be glorified as warriors.

Give me a break with the small bone chip. I don't care if it was chipped at all and just a jammed finger. You tape up a jammed index finger and try shooting. Even moreso try reaching in and blocking shots or passes. Anyone who has ever played the game knows damn well its difficult and constantly up for re-injury. So now it's Kobe and Laker fans fault for what the media does. Kobe plays hurt better than any player in the game toady and quite possible ever. Why wouldnt the media report that? Again, your hatred distorts your reality.


And its kind of dumb to compare 30% on 30 shots by one player to 30% on 3 shots by Bynum dont you think? Or 7 shots by Gasol? Like I said Id understand if those guys were having off-nights and the game developed into Kobe needing to take over because the other guys werent doing shit, but when those guys never even get a chance to get into a rythm or prove that theyre indeed having an off-night than I dont see no justification to Kobe's chucking. He shot more shots than the rest of the entire starting line-up combined. .

But they were having off nights. And had you actually WATCHED the game you would have known that. But you already admitted you didn't watch the game so you are basing your comments on a box score which is not an accurate account.


Also for the record, Ive given Kobe his props. He's still the second best player in the game and one of the all-time greats...I just have a problem with Kobe fans that act like he can do no wrong. The guy has had problems with trusting teammates and selfishness his entire career yet youd never know that the way some of you guys talk about him.

Those guys who cannot admit Kobe has faults and act like he can do no wrong are just as idiotic as the haters like you. Your comments that have no base in fact is no different than theirs. I amagine the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Maybe you should actually watch the games rather than qualify your kobsesson with box score numbers. You might actually get something right.

[ambchang]

spoken like a fan of a team that only won 4 rings in the past 50 years :toast

Is this all you could come up with? What about the contradictions you were spotting, care to elaborate on those?

I chose the Spurs as the basketball team I would root for, and I would do it no matter how good or how bad they are. I went through the 21-win season, I went through the 62-win season and the WCF collapse. I don't feel ashamed of them, I don't feel proud of them. Because obviously, my actions have absolutely no effect on the team's success/failure.

The Lakers is a fantastic organization, it really deserves more knowledgable fans.

[TheMACHINE]

Is this all you could come up with? What about the contradictions you were spotting, care to elaborate on those?

I chose the Spurs as the basketball team I would root for, and I would do it no matter how good or how bad they are. I went through the 21-win season, I went through the 62-win season and the WCF collapse. I don't feel ashamed of them, I don't feel proud of them. Because obviously, my actions have absolutely no effect on the team's success/failure.

The Lakers is a fantastic organization, it really deserves more knowledgable fans.

cool story, bro. brought a tear to my eyes.

[cobbler]

Is this all you could come up with? What about the contradictions you were spotting, care to elaborate on those?

I chose the Spurs as the basketball team I would root for, and I would do it no matter how good or how bad they are. I went through the 21-win season, I went through the 62-win season and the WCF collapse. I don't feel ashamed of them, I don't feel proud of them. Because obviously, my actions have absolutely no effect on the team's success/failure.

The Lakers is a fantastic organization, it really deserves more knowledgable fans.

So you have no effect on the success/failure of something you support. To each his own. How is this news? And how is it news the other way around for those of us who do have an effect on team success and/or failure?

What is your point? That you are somehow superior to others because you have no impact? Ok then....

[Killakobe81]

Pau whines about enough touches? and I AGREE Kobe forced some hots last night ... I KNOW I WAS AT the game last night.
However Pau has no excuse for the times he gets "touches" but fails to produce or anything or kicks out rather than "re-posting" ...

Look I dont care who hates the way kobe plays ball ... because that is your right. I could undertstand that volume shooting may not be everyone's cup of tea. But don't give me that MJ didnt do the samething stuff ...because EVEN though he has a better career FG% without looking at the stats i bet his shot total and % of points scored are similar to Kobe's even though he played with another HOF'er ...

Last night bynum was in foul trouble as was Pau in the 1st half ...
To me it is never a problem if Kobe shoots my issues are more when they break the offense too much and it's not just kobe, Fisher, Jordan all do this far to often.

If they ran the offense and kobe took 30 shots and 90% were open looks that would be great offense ...regardless if one guys was hot (as kobe was) and taking the majority of the shots that is SMART basketball ...

When the team doesnt Kobe will take (and make at times) bad shots, Fish and farmar are chucking shots and the ball doesnt go inside ...

All that said Kobe put on a great show we lost but i think the 2nd of back to backs had more to do with than anything else

We missed at least 7 FT's, artest left Rudy wide-open and missed a good lok at a GW 2 pointer and we had some silly TO's

[MiamiHeat]

you guys sound angry. need relaxation? do some yoga

C7P6dzVf0ug

[HarlemHeat37]

Apparently Bynum is complaining about touches too..interesting..

[TheMACHINE]

Apparently Bynum is complaining about touches too..interesting..

Morrison too.

[j.dizzle]

Morrison too.
Son, thats funny cuz I also heard the water & towel boys are complaining about touches too.

[MiamiHeat]

Kobe should say, Fuck em, I gotta legacy to build.

Will you support that attitude if the Lakers do not win another championship?

[TheNextGen]

My two cents:

I think the OP is misplacing blame. 16 for 28 is awesome and would be happy if Ginobli did that during a game. In regards to Bynum and Gasol only having 10 total shots....as bigs, that is unaceptable. A good part of thier shot attempts should come in way of offensive rebounds and putting the ball back up. Lets check thier rebounds. Both bigs had a total of 17 rebounds compared to Z-bo's 17 and Marcs 13. Thats where the problem lies. Gasol and Bynum needs to match Kobe's aggresion.

[MiamiHeat]

My two cents:

I think the OP is misplacing blame. 16 for 28 is awesome and would be happy if Ginobli did that during a game. In regards to Bynum and Gasol only having 10 total shots....as bigs, that is unaceptable. A good part of thier shot attempts should come in way of offensive rebounds and putting the ball back up. Lets check thier rebounds. Both bigs had a total of 17 rebounds compared to Z-bo's 17 and Marcs 13. Thats where the problem lies. Gasol and Bynum needs to match Kobe's aggresion.


Jumpshots create long rebounds. That's a fact of basketball.

So Kobe being a volume jump shooter makes most of LA's possessions into long rebounds which the bigs have little chance to grab for a putback.

[ambchang]

So you have no effect on the success/failure of something you support. To each his own. How is this news? And how is it news the other way around for those of us who do have an effect on team success and/or failure?

What is your point? That you are somehow superior to others because you have no impact? Ok then....

You have an effect on the success of the Lakers? You mean you have something to do with the LA Lakers winning 10 titles and the Minneapolis Lakers winning another 5?

How so, because you spent $200 on a ticket and bought some pink Kobe jerseys?

[ambchang]

cool story, bro. brought a tear to my eyes.

It is moving, I know.

Let's talk about my contradiction after you finished crying, shall we?

[ChrisRichards]

i'm going to add this quote in this thread since chrisrichards/miamiheat missed it.

Thanks:toast


Come on Laker fans....

Kobe was JACKING shit up last night...you don't agree with this??? He has been jacking shit up for the past month....why I have no clue. The guy has a broken fuckign finger and he is still launching shit up. It is ridiculous. This Lakers team has one of the top 20 front courts in NBA history...and we are playing outside in. it is FUCKING mind boggling and frustrating. And it isn't just Kobe....Fisher jacks up ridiculous shit quite often, Farmar is a selfish punk asss bitch, Brown has struggled the last few weeks and cannot initiate the tri. Pau should be at 15 shots a game MINIMUM and Drew should be at 12-13.


I do think Kobe realizes this...I honestly just don't think he gives a fuck right now. Come playoff time though....I think everybody here knows Kobe is going to be dominating scoring AND facilitating and will keep the selfish bullshit at the door...


Mother effin truth right here coming from an unbiased Laker fan.


Respeck! :hat

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe is a scorer, a great scorer, one of the best scorers of all time, but beyond that there's not much to him. He seems to really have trouble grasping team basketball because he never played it or was asked to play it until he became a pro. That said, he's worked at it and improved, because the old Kobe never had a prayer of winning an MVP award.

He's always going to go through periods where he's going to
take no shots, thinking he's helping his team
jack up shit at the end of every quarter because he thinks he's clutch, or take all the shots because he thinks scoring a lot of individual points is going to help his team win.

He's had some measure of success with all of those tactics due to
his ability to draw defenders
his ability to hit very low-percentage shots at a relatively high rate
his ability to score points at a relatively efficient rate when he shoots in volume
his ability to draw calls, if not draw fouls, both of which are skills.


He's by no means perfect, and far from the greatest Laker of all time, let alone being mentioned as an all-time great player, but there's little doubt that he makes the Lakers better by being on the team (something that wasn't always the case), and his teammates and coaches should realize the strides that he's made from the super talented team-killer that he was only a few years ago enough not to rock the boat while they seem to be rounding into form.

[ChrisRichards]

Kobe is a scorer, a great scorer, one of the best scorers of all time, but beyond that there's not much to him. He seems to really have trouble grasping team basketball because he never played it or was asked to play it until he became a pro. That said, he's worked at it and improved, because the old Kobe never had a prayer of winning an MVP award.


He's always going to go through periods where he's going to

take no shots, thinking he's helping his team
jack up shit at the end of every quarter because he thinks he's clutch, or
take all the shots because he thinks scoring a lot of individual points is going to help his team win.


He's had some measure of success with all of those tactics due to

his ability to draw defenders
his ability to hit very low-percentage shots at a relatively high rate
his ability to score points at a relatively efficient rate when he shoots in volume
his ability to draw calls, if not draw fouls, both of which are skills.

He's by no means perfect, and far from the greatest Laker of all time, let alone being mentioned as an all-time great player, but there's little doubt that he makes the Lakers better by being on the team (something that wasn't always the case), and his teammates and coaches should realize the strides that he's made from the super talented team-killer that he was only a few years ago enough not to rock the boat while they seem to be rounding into form.


I know Kobe fans always think there's going to be a turn around at one point from this guy, but that never happens.


Kobe will play a good game shooting less than 20 shots while dishing 8 assists a game and the Lakers would not win, but DOMINATE.


next game, when you think Kobe has it figured out, he will have a 11/28 shooting and disregard his teammates.


Kobe is just an overrated player by greatest players of all time standards. he's very good, but he's not Top 20 great.

[TheMACHINE]

My two cents:

I think the OP is misplacing blame. 16 for 28 is awesome and would be happy if Ginobli did that during a game. In regards to Bynum and Gasol only having 10 total shots....as bigs, that is unaceptable. A good part of thier shot attempts should come in way of offensive rebounds and putting the ball back up. Lets check thier rebounds. Both bigs had a total of 17 rebounds compared to Z-bo's 17 and Marcs 13. Thats where the problem lies. Gasol and Bynum needs to match Kobe's aggresion.


/end thread

[TheMACHINE]

Jumpshots create long rebounds. That's a fact of basketball.

So Kobe being a volume jump shooter makes most of LA's possessions into long rebounds which the bigs have little chance to grab for a putback.

Wrong, if you are trying to get offensive rebounds. Jumpshots that create long rebounds favor the offensive team, not the defensive team.

Try again.

[ChrisRichards]

Wrong, if you are trying to get offensive rebounds. Jumpshots that create long rebounds favor the offensive team, not the defensive team.

Try again.
Eh. problem with that is the Lakers are not a good offensive rebounding team which pretty much why the Lakers are killed in transition

[Mike D]

If Gasol went 16/28 and was the only player who played any defense, and Kobe got completely abused and outplayed by OJ Mayo (who happened to be his little brother) and Rudy Gay....would anyone blame the loss on Gasol and say he shot too much?

[TheMACHINE]

Eh. problem with that is the Lakers are not a good offensive rebounding team which pretty much why the Lakers are killed in transition

then dont blame the sg if the teams offensive rebounds sucks.

[ChrisRichards]

then dont blame the sg if the teams offensive rebounds sucks.
I normally would'nt, but the problem with Kobe sometimes is he dribbles and holds the ball for a long time and then he suddenly shoots ill advised jumpers which throws his teammates off.


Also when he does this, most of the Lakers bigs couldn't establish a position down low to grab the rebound.

[ChrisRichards]

But the two Rushmore-like figures will be difficult for him to scale. Bryant will never be completely embraced like Magic, or completely revered like West, because what makes him so great is what makes everyone else so unnerved. His killer instinct can be unsettling. His serious demeanor can be intimidating.

And will his teammates ever stop carping about how he doesn't pass them the ball?


How typical that on a night he breaks the record, the Lakers lose and one of his teammates throws a dart at him for shooting too much.


It happened Monday after the 95-93 loss in which Bryant took 28 of the Lakers' 73 shots, an unwieldy 38%. At least one buddy couldn't even honor him for the record without questioning him for the shots.

"I'm proud of him, I congratulate him," Pau Gasol said. "Now we can focus on winning games again."

Gasol was just getting started.

"Obviously we're not making a conscious effort on pounding the ball inside," Gasol said. "So we settled a little bit too much."

A day later, with Bryant not available for comment, both Gasol and Derek Fisher reiterated the idea that sometimes even the greats can try to be too great.

Gasol talked about getting more players involved, and Fisher even invoked exact statistics from the previous night, saying that one player taking 38% of the shots is just too much.

"This is a tough one for me, guys," Fisher said. "But winning is what it comes down to."

"From the time I took over this team till probably the time I leave, that's always been an issue," Coach Phil Jackson said Tuesday about Bryant's shooting. "One of our first team meetings was about the fact that Kobe wasn't passing the ball . . . that whole crew, they wanted to sit down and talk about it as a team."

.
Looks like there's a lot of chemistry issues in LA.


is it possible this is the reason why they are losing road games left and right? I mean last year they were the best road team in the league. all of a sudden they are losing winnable games? I think Laker fans should be concerned.


bottom line for me. kobe should just stop chucking and start getting his teammates involved if he wants those guys fightinf with him in May and June.

[MiamiHeat]

should I go back through my posts and point where I predicted this? nah, nobody cares, but still


i think everyone saw it coming :)

[MiamiHeat]

I normally would'nt, but the problem with Kobe sometimes is he dribbles and holds the ball for a long time and then he suddenly shoots ill advised jumpers which throws his teammates off.


Also when he does this, most of the Lakers bigs couldn't establish a position down low to grab the rebound.

long jumpshots = long rebounds

harder for the C or PF to rebound under the basket because the ball bounces farther away. bigs try to get position by facing the basket, but if the rebound goes farther back over their heads, then the guy they boxed out is in prime position to get the board... right even to the SF's, SG's, and even PG's

[KidCongo]

Looks like there's a lot of chemistry issues in LA.


is it possible this is the reason why they are losing road games left and right? I mean last year they were the best road team in the league. all of a sudden they are losing winnable games? I think Laker fans should be concerned.


bottom line for me. kobe should just stop chucking and start getting his teammates involved if he wants those guys fightinf with him in May and June.

Then you have people saying Kobe is the best leader or top 3 in the NBA while 'his' players are calling him out and the chemistry is off. Good leaders manage a locker room.

[TheMACHINE]

I normally would'nt, but the problem with Kobe sometimes is he dribbles and holds the ball for a long time and then he suddenly shoots ill advised jumpers which throws his teammates off.


Also when he does this, most of the Lakers bigs couldn't establish a position down low to grab the rebound.

you said "jumpshots equals long rebounds"...i said its a fact that "offensive players are favored by long rebounds"...now you are syaing that kobes jumpshots dont help the offensive players get rebounds. :rolleyes

Sheesh...make up your mind. Now log on Miamiheat and stick up for yourself.

[TheMACHINE]

I normally would'nt, but the problem with Kobe sometimes is he dribbles and holds the ball for a long time and then he suddenly shoots ill advised jumpers which throws his teammates off.


Also when he does this, most of the Lakers bigs couldn't establish a position down low to grab the rebound.


long jumpshots = long rebounds

harder for the C or PF to rebound under the basket because the ball bounces farther away. bigs try to get position by facing the basket, but if the rebound goes farther back over their heads, then the guy they boxed out is in prime position to get the board... right even to the SF's, SG's, and even PG's

Exactly, thats why i said pau gasol and bynum should get more rebounds since your other username (ChrisRichards) just stated that Kobe's long jumpshots = long rebounds.

[JamStone]

Then you have people saying Kobe is the best leader or top 3 in the NBA while 'his' players are calling him out and the chemistry is off. Good leaders manage a locker room.

Good leaders dance with their teammates during timeouts and take fake pictures and throw powder up in the air and tattoo "Chosen One" on their back. Now that's leadership.

:king

[21_Blessings]

:king

g5MwqrhKn4k

Where leadership happens.

[TheMACHINE]

g5MwqrhKn4k

Where leadership happens.

damn..did the ref get fired?

[hitmanyr2k]

Good leaders dance with their teammates during timeouts and take fake pictures and throw powder up in the air and tattoo "Chosen One" on their back. Now that's leadership.

:king

With all that being said, good leaders involve their teammates in the offense which in turn makes them WANT to perform at their best on both ends of the floor. They're out there every night having fun as a cohesive unit and that can make a long 82 game season that much more bearable. I can live with Lebron's antics when I see what he's doing for his team.

[OceaNus]

Looks like there's a lot of chemistry issues in LA.


is it possible this is the reason why they are losing road games left and right? I mean last year they were the best road team in the league. all of a sudden they are losing winnable games? I think Laker fans should be concerned.


bottom line for me. kobe should just stop chucking and start getting his teammates involved if he wants those guys fightinf with him in May and June.

Kobe fell in love with being the hero again ala 06 with all his game winners. He really is banged up though. Early on he would post up alot and now it's almost all retarded jumpers.

[namlook]

Kobe fell in love with being the hero again ala 06 with all his game winners. He really is banged up though. Early on he would post up alot and now it's almost all retarded jumpers.

Maybe you should think things through a little more. He couldn't keep playing so much in the post with his finger because post play is physical and getting the finger hit is very painful. Shots to the finger could also potentially cause medical setbacks for the healing of broken bones. Look for him to get back to the post more later on in the season and especially in the playoffs. The Lakers will be fine. Stop stressing. A playoff focused Kobe, Phil and a talented roster? They will be very hard to beat in a 7 game series.

[ChrisRichards]

Kobe fell in love with being the hero again ala 06 with all his game winners. He really is banged up though. Early on he would post up alot and now it's almost all retarded jumpers.
Thank you.

[ChrisRichards]

Exactly, thats why i said pau gasol and bynum should get more rebounds since your other username (ChrisRichards) just stated that Kobe's long jumpshots = long rebounds.
Dude, you dont understand. Normal jumpshooters (preferably catch and shoot types) are different than players like Kobe.


Kobe tends to have those "Oh my goodness did he just shoot that" shot. Granted he makes an awful lot of those so Ill give him credit, but he also misses a good size of those during games. When this happens, his teammates like Odom, Gasol and Bynum are not utilitzed because the ball bounces much further from the paint area OR they simply could'nt establish a position because there's too much ball movement from the perimeter and it gets worst when the player who takes 35% of the teams shot has a questionable selection.


Look. You guys can sugarcoat this all you want but LA ranks 9th in offense this season (far from the Top 3 championship team last year). That's concerning considering LA's best weapon is their offense. IMO Kobe is mostly responsible for this because, He went through a dark streak shooting 30% and disrupted team offense not surprisingly they also lost a lot of games in that span.



I dont have a problem earlier when Kobe was sticking it to everyones face averaging 30 PPG in 50% shooting, but 23 FGA in 30% shooting is a problem especially when you have 2 other 7 footers willing to lighten your load for the time being while you recover.

[MiamiHeat]

Good leaders dance with their teammates during timeouts and take fake pictures and throw powder up in the air and tattoo "Chosen One" on their back. Now that's leadership.

:king

Huge hypocrite

You whine and cry when people bash kobe, but look at you here

stfu

[MiamiHeat]

look at this long ass retarded post by JamStone


I'd be interested to find out how many among all these posters who continue to bash Kobe and try to find every single thing to discredit him were also ones who claimed that they would stop talking shit about Kobe once Kobe won a title without Shaq or once Kobe was the go-to guy on a championship team. There were plenty of those Kobe detractors who said something to that effect, that once Kobe did win it all without Shaq as the main guy, they'd stop their hate. But, Kobe haters refuse to do so. They'll find any reason to hate the guy, to continue to bash the guy, to discredit his greatness.

Now, I can understand people hating on Kobe because he's an asshole or because he's not a likable guy. I even agree that he's selfish. I'll buy that sales pitch. But, people who just want to suggest he sucks or isn't all that great and continue to obsess over anything and everything Kobe is starting to get kind of scary.

I also realize some of it is reactionary to the Kobe knob slobbers. That's somewhat understandable. But, give the guy some credit. When he shoots 30 shots a game and shoots 30% from the floor he's a ballhog and any old average NBA player could do what he does. When he shoots 30 shots but shoots 60% from the floor, he's still a selfish glory hound... it's no matter what. Earlier this very year, Kobe had a game where he scored 44 points and still dished out 11 assists and only 1 turnover in a 6 point win, meaning he didn't stat pad. You know what, Kobe haters would still find a way to discredit it. "Hey, look at the competition though" or "LeBron would have gotten a triple double."

It's sick. I'm really beginning to think Kobe-hate is an actual disease...


then look at him bashing LeBron for petty shit


http://theblacksentinel.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/hypocrite.jpg

[TheMACHINE]

With all that being said, good leaders involve their teammates in the offense which in turn makes them WANT to perform at their best on both ends of the floor. They're out there every night having fun as a cohesive unit and that can make a long 82 game season that much more bearable. I can live with Lebron's antics when I see what he's doing for his team.

and Kobe got to the finals twice, won a ring and is first place in the west....but isnt a leader. :rolleyes

[TheMACHINE]

Dude, you dont understand. Normal jumpshooters (preferably catch and shoot types) are different than players like Kobe.


Kobe tends to have those "Oh my goodness did he just shoot that" shot. Granted he makes an awful lot of those so Ill give him credit, but he also misses a good size of those during games. When this happens, his teammates like Odom, Gasol and Bynum are not utilitzed because the ball bounces much further from the paint area OR they simply could'nt establish a position because there's too much ball movement from the perimeter and it gets worst when the player who takes 35% of the teams shot has a questionable selection.





That doesnt even make sense. You just love making shit up.

[j.dizzle]

:lol at this thread...Yo wtf is up with Gasol, he's playing like a little bitch this year..He looked way different last season..He's missing easy ass layups, his 10-15 ft jumpshot is off, he's letting avg players score on him at will. Something is definitely not right with him. You would think he would want to add 15-20 lbs of muscle but i guess he likes being scronny as hell..He needs to bulk up & be more like his brother.

[hitmanyr2k]

and Kobe got to the finals twice, won a ring and is first place in the west....but isnt a leader. :rolleyes

Did I even mention Kobe in my post? I was responding to the post about Lebron's antics not mattering much when you see what his leadership brings to that Cavs team. Who cares about Kobe?

And since you brought him up I'll tell you that Kobe is a leader. And at the same time I'll tell you I don't consider Kobe's leadership anywhere close to what Lebron brings to the floor. Kobe's leadership runs hot and cold which is why this thread exists in the first place. For the mostpart Kobe's idea of leadership is shooting a lot and scoring.

Lebron's idea of leadership is making sure his teammates on the floor are happy and that they're involved and if he has to take over he'll take over. His teammates know what to expect night in and night out and they know they're going to be involved which is why they're performing so damn good. They're all in a comfort zone. Lebron doesn't change up the routine and throughout the course of a season that's how a team gets BETTER.

With Kobe he still has trouble with balancing his game and getting his teammates involved. His teammates don't know if they're going to get 3 shots one game or 10+ shots the next. Considering how many seasons Kobe's been in the league I find that sad. I've never seen a guy get injured and somehow find a way to shoot MORE instead of trying to play facilitator and make his team BETTER in the long run. Would they lose a few games in the process if Kobe deferred? Maybe. But that's how a team learns and gains confidence throughout the season. Kobe shouldn't need his team and coach calling him out to share the freakin ball. He should have enough of a b-ball IQ to do that himself.

[TheMACHINE]

Did I even mention Kobe in my post? I was responding to the post about Lebron's antics not mattering much when you see what his leadership brings to that Cavs team. Who cares about Kobe?

And since you brought him up I'll tell you that Kobe is a leader. And at the same time I'll tell you I don't consider Kobe's leadership anywhere close to what Lebron brings to the floor. Kobe's leadership runs hot and cold which is why this thread exists in the first place. For the mostpart Kobe's idea of leadership is shooting a lot and scoring.

Lebron's idea of leadership is making sure his teammates on the floor are happy and that they're involved and if he has to take over he'll take over. His teammates know what to expect night in and night out and they know they're going to be involved which is why they're performing so damn good. They're all in a comfort zone. Lebron doesn't change up the routine and throughout the course of a season that's how a team gets BETTER.

With Kobe he still has trouble with balancing his game and getting his teammates involved. His teammates don't know if they're going to get 3 shots one game or 10+ shots the next. Considering how many seasons Kobe's been in the league I find that sad. I've never seen a guy get injured and somehow find a way to shoot MORE instead of trying to play facilitator and make his team BETTER in the long run. Would they lose a few games in the process if Kobe deferred? Maybe. But that's how a team learns and gains confidence throughout the season. Kobe shouldn't need his team and coach calling him out to share the freakin ball. He should have enough of a b-ball IQ to do that himself.

The reasons you point out about Kobe is the exact reason why he is a better leader then lebron. Kobe changes routine...he does what needs to be done to win. To you, it may seem like NOT leadership....to some thats what leadership entails. Kobe doesnt care if his team is happy. Winning is what makes teammates happy...not taking fake pictures...not dancing on the sidelines. If i recall, his teamates looked damn happy during the Championship Parade, while your boy Lebron acted like a baby when he got owned by the Magic.

Once again...you might disagree. But the fact that Bryants "so called" crappy leadership makes his team go furthur each year proves my point. How bout Lebron? Props on the Finals in 2007...what has he done in the post season since then? Doesnt his leadership make his team better at the end of the season?

God Bless.