Big Picture Happiness

[timvp]

Tough loss.

However, that was the healthiest I've seen the Big Three the entire season. Duncan looked fine, Parker was moving well and Ginobili was able to attack the rim. When it comes down to it, the health of the Big Three is way more important than anything else right now.




*cue the flaming*

[rayray2k8]

Eh, I don't care at the moment. If we're healthy, then I think we have a chance.

[timtonymanu]

thanks for that timvp. i always look forward to hearing your silver lining comments. yea i agree. TP looked like his 08-09 form. Manu was active. Tim was off but we know what we get from him.

But still this team needs more than these 3 to win. RJ needs to play defense better. He gets torched alot by anybody.

[ShoogarBear]

They'll be really healthy next year after not having any playoff games. :depressed

[Sean Cagney]

There is no silver lining here IMO.......

[ulosturedge]

Is that the silver lining here? I actually agree with you there. It's just frustrating seeing how the potential is there, but they just can't put it all together. This team just doesn't have the chemistry we are use to seeing from past teams. Just gotta keep hoping they can get over that hump.

[FvckMavs]

Timmy looked slow in the second half.

[alchemist]

Physically they're healthy, mentally these guys need to get over that huge hump in clutch situations.

Turning the ball over when you forced one in the last minute = :bang

[Spursfan 87]

we are healthy and we cant beat the Blazers 3rd stringers

[HarlemHeat37]

It doesn't matter when the players on this team are slow, play with no energy and have low IQ, which results in poor D..the Blazers shot 51% tonight, this seems to be what we expect from teams going up against the Spurs..

Health is important and it's nice, but this team has big problems..

[objective]

I can't remember the last time the Spurs forced multiple shot clock violations which I'm pretty sure happened in this game.

[timvp]

Not really a silver lining. Just something that should be noted when looking at the big picture. The Spurs could be 50-0 right now or whatever but if the Big Three isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

[duncan228]

Believe.

[DDS4]

So much for taking TD out on back-2-backs...

Webster was perfect from the 3-point line. You would think somebody would stay on that guy towards the end.

[mexicanjunior]

They'll be really healthy next year after not having any playoff games. :depressed

+1

I hope anyway...would rather have the lottery balls than the first round exit.

[Dro210]

I expected Tony to look fresh tonight after the rest, but I figure it's only a temporary boost for him... Hopefully I'm completely wrong on this one tho, cause he looked great tonight.

[Budkin]

Big 3 being healthy is nice but without defense or the ability to stop runs it doesn't mean anything.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah, it was good to see everyone looking healthy. And I'm assuming Mason is gone as of tomorrow or something.

But when it comes down to it, to me, this game is on Pop. He should have called a timeout at 4 minutes to go, 3 minutes to go, etc to stop the bleeding. He sent Tony to the scorer's table with 4 something left and Tony sat there on the ground til 2 minutes (or less). A timeout to re-group was really needed and Pop let them blow the lead. I know it's on the players for not executing/getting stops, but the coach needs to know when they need a little help to re-focus.

[ElNono]

I agree with the health assesment. They also played great D for almost two quarters, which is two quarters better than the last few games. I thought this was a game where we took a step in the right direction, despite the loss. That said, we've been on this road before this season and we've managed to regress.

[timvp]

So much for taking TD out on back-2-backs...

That's another good sign. If Duncan was iffy at all about his knee, Pop would be sitting him.

Don't get me wrong ... this was a very tough loss and the Spurs are long, long, long shots when it comes to winning the championship, but when the Big Three finally all look healthy at the same time -- it's notable.

[admiralfats]

I thought in the last 5 minutes of the game we should've given the ball to manu on the perimeter and pick and rolled with him, cuz he was killing that earlier. we posted tim up a couple of times and it didn't really work. I mean, I know that's results oriented, and if they had given the ball to manu and he hadn't produced good results i'd be like, "Why didn't we go to tim!?" but I thought manu looked really fresh getting to the basket, and in the past our modus operandi was get the ball to manu and let him make something happen. anyway, I thought we played some solid defense at times. for 3 quarters of this game, I was like, we're putting it together. I think that's what's most disappointing. losing doesn't have to mean that we didn't put something together though. We'll see. I still believe, for the record.

[boutons_deux]

The bodies may be willing and able finally, but the heads and hearts are weak.

[alchemist]

So much for taking TD out on back-2-backs...

Webster was perfect from the 3-point line. You would think somebody would stay on that guy towards the end.
The last one he made:
Tony had to go cover Batum in the corner, nobody helped on Tony's man so he got a wide open 3....un-fucking-believable this team is right now.

[AnthonyM]

I'm also definitely happier to see Pop going off. Seeing him hitting the media table and really getting after some of the guys was encouraging to see. Hadn't seen it like that in a while.

I get the feeling Pop senses its go time and hopefully he really lights a fire under their ass.

Maybe it's just me but who knows...

[Parker2112]

Tough loss.

However, that was the healthiest I've seen the Big Three the entire season. Duncan looked fine, Parker was moving well and Ginobili was able to attack the rim. When it comes down to it, the health of the Big Three is way more important than anything else right now.




*cue the flaming*

IMO, Duncan is not fine. He can't jump. This was his condition late last year as well. He is not able to alter shots, block shots, get critical boards. I know his stats aren't bad tonight but he is not the Timmy of old. He didn't even play a true center tonight, he was played by a washed up has been, 1 on 1, and he scored 15.

Without him playing at the old level, we are in trouble. :(

[Kori Ellis]

The last one he made:
Tony had to go cover Batum in the corner, nobody helped on Tony's man so he got a wide open 3....un-fucking-believable this team is right now.

That was McDyess' fault, I believe. He missed a lot of rotations today.

[SequSpur]

so the fact that the spurs are more than 50% into the season and they go minutes without a bucket, a coach that has his head up his ass...i hot dog who makes ill-advised passes night in and night out...can't hit a wide open jumper...(mason won 5 games by himself last year and he's on the bench)...the best point guard in the history of san antonio is sitting below the scorers table and there is happiness?

uh no... The spurs still can't beat a good team, the still can't execute and the coach has his head up his ass.. and buck harvey is writing articles about the best coach in the history of the nba...

yeah...uh huh...

[slick'81]

as long as theres no back2backs in the playoffs

[tim_duncan_fan]

I don't see how anyone could be happy. It's not as if we aren't losing to almost every team that has more wins than losses.

We can't even beat the good teams when they are missing star players.

I think something needs to be done, but I get the feeling that we'll stand pat.

:cry

[ElNono]

I thought both Manu and Tim were gassed at the end... I think they were more decoys than anything. That said, I agree Pop did some awful timeout management out there.

[ffadicted]

I personally thought Duncan looked awful tonight. He was so soft all night long, settling for jumpers late in the game, turning the ball over, getting bullied on defense. Probably one of his worst outings this season in my opinion.

Agreed on ginobili and parker though, both looked fine

[ElNono]

I'm also definitely happier to see Pop going off. Seeing him hitting the media table and really getting after some of the guys was encouraging to see. Hadn't seen it like that in a while.

I get the feeling Pop senses its go time and hopefully he really lights a fire under their ass.

Maybe it's just me but who knows...

Yes, also jumping on Bogans and sitting his ass after the retarded foul on Miller.

[edgar]

This team doesn't make the plays it used to do to win games in the last minutes of the 4th quarter. This and the big letdown of what Jefferson has been this season will ultimately make for a great trade deadline. I grinned from ear to ear as this Spurs team lost yet another fought hard game because this lets the front office know that we won't bullshit our way into thinking that "if and when we gel" we can be a contender.

However, it does seem like the whole league is struggling in having big lead games, because the league has gotten so much tougher over the years and we are beginning to see many young prospects become the new big bad boys in town. The only reason the Lakers aren't feeling the heat as much we are is because they have many elite players on their team, something we dont have the money to afford that much due to our small market team.

:deadhorse

[SCdac]

As always, there's positive and even elite plays the Spurs have had on both ends of the court (ball movement is looking better in these past games, Spurs responded defensively coming out of the half)... but it's the bigger picture that matters... the 'playing steadily enough to not only make the playoffs, but actually contend' is looking further and further away. Defense, traditionally, is fully a team responsibility, even if the Big-3 are looking better as a trio (I agree btw), it won't cure our defensive woes.

[objective]

Another reason to cheer up:

Tonight's game helps Matt Bonner keep his title as the "Prince of Plus/Minus" after his second place showing!

More Bonner! More +/-!

:toast

[SequSpur]

Another reason to cheer up:

Tonight's game help's Matt Bonner keep his title as the "Prince of Plus/Minus" after his second place showing!

More Bonner! More +/-!

:toast

i am not laughing.

[Stringer_Bell]

Believe.

I'm trying, I'm really trying. There are flashes of greatness between the scoring droughts, but it's so hard to watch them struggle. :(

[MaNu4Tres]

Manu looked the best he has all year. It's a good sign he's shown progress in his penetrating ability.

Spurs need to make a move for a more all around consistent wing instead of the Bogans/Mason/ Finley combination. 38 minutes for Hill is too much IMO.

[AnthonyM]

Yes, also jumping on Bogans and sitting his ass after the retarded foul on Miller.

Yeah, and earlier in the game too he got all over RJ and the result was RJ taking it to the hole hard twice, although he missed one and the next resulted in a foul.

[Leetonidas]

Yeah, it was good to see everyone looking healthy. And I'm assuming Mason is gone as of tomorrow or something.

But when it comes down to it, to me, this game is on Pop. He should have called a timeout at 4 minutes to go, 3 minutes to go, etc to stop the bleeding. He sent Tony to the scorer's table with 4 something left and Tony sat there on the ground til 2 minutes (or less). A timeout to re-group was really needed and Pop let them blow the lead. I know it's on the players for not executing/getting stops, but the coach needs to know when they need a little help to re-focus.

Alright, I'll bite because it's you. Do you really think there's a trade in the works?

[Man In Black]

It's a big picture thing. Every cliff-jumper reacts to 1 game, read 1 game with way too much emotion. What sucked in that 4th quarter was late defensive read & reactions from NEW players. It sucks that this late in the season that they haven't yet got it down cold. However, there is still a little bit of time left to get this. RJ, I don't have much hope for. Same with "Keef" Bogans, but McDyess, I think he can get it. I knew he was sucked in too far and that 1 3pointer and that was a killer momentum shift.
People bitch about the loss, but remember, even with this loss, the Spurs still have less losses than seeds 5,7, & 8. Remember, losses you can't give back.

[Ghazi]

it's only February :clap :clap

[mexicanjunior]

it's only February :clap :clap

I know right...

[HarlemHeat37]

I didn't have a problem with Duncan's D tonight..he blocked 2 shots and altered 3 shots, that's fine with me..Juwan Howard scoring an off the dribble turnaround hook shot is something you allow him to shoot..the rest were pick and rolls where he's too slow to switch to the jump shooter, which is something all Spurs fans should expect from an old Duncan at this point, we've seen it all year..

I had a problem with his offense, because he was taking horrible shots..he looked fine physically, he just allows inferior defenders to get in his head..he's played dominant basketball against almost every quality defender he's went up against this year, but when he plays average defenders, he starts coasting offensively and then allows them to get in his head when he isn't dominating..

[Kori Ellis]

Alright, I'll bite because it's you. Do you really think there's a trade in the works?

I think they are trying to trade Mason, yes. I don't know if it will actually happen.

[timvp]

I had a problem with his offense, because he was taking horrible shots..he looked fine physically, he just allows inferior defenders to get in his head..he's played dominant basketball against almost every quality defender he's went up against this year, but when he plays average defenders, he starts coasting offensively and then allows them to get in his head when he isn't dominating..

Rather than coasting, I think it's more a matter of holding the ball too long. When he goes against better players, he knows he has to make quick decisions. When he goes smaller/weaker defenders, he has tended to hold onto the ball while relying on overpowering rather than quickness and decisiveness -- which leads to forced shots and turnovers.

And I think it's more a matter of size or strength than defensive talent because the ultimate example of that this year was against Chuck Hayes.

[SequSpur]

I think they are trying to trade Mason, yes. I don't know if it will actually happen.

that would be stupid. he is the best clutch player they have...the rest of this team couldn't win a game to save their lives...


what a tragedy...

[timvp]

On the other side of the coin, was I the only one who wanted to jump off a bridge when Pop put Finley in at the end of the third quarter right when the Spurs were starting to play pretty well? Finley hadn't played all night and hasn't hit a shot in months, yet Pop decides that's the time to put him in.

:hang

[Spursfanfromafar]

My concern has always been that the two new acquisitions for the season have been mostly mediocre. They were supposed to help and push when the big three were not doing fine, but the big three have more or less done enough given their physical troubles. Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess haven't, on the other hand, justified their pay.

And the injuries to Bonner and Finley, the continued slump of Roger Mason's has meant that the supporting cast has been weakened as well.

The Spurs are therefore hanging in playoff contention mostly because of decent play by its Top 3 and occasional good stuff from youngsters Hill and Blair.

That means that any improvement through trade has to go through either improving the supporting cast by casting away either of Mason/Finley/Bonner or some of them and expect RJ/Dice to deliver as time goes on; or think big and cut from Mason/Finley/Bonner including one of RJ/Dice for a return of a shot blocking Big and a good Wing/defender.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't even think Finley has played bad or anything(other than that disgusting pass attempt), he's just SOOOO SLOOOOOW..everything he does is in slow motion..if we're talking about a big man, then it can pass, but a slow swingman just doesn't work in the hand-check era..he's 36 years old..give it a rest Pop..

[TD 21]

Tough loss.

However, that was the healthiest I've seen the Big Three the entire season. Duncan looked fine, Parker was moving well and Ginobili was able to attack the rim. When it comes down to it, the health of the Big Three is way more important than anything else right now.




*cue the flaming*

You have got to be shitting me?

I agree with your comment, but there is no silver lining here.

Ginobili missing that potential game-tying three, in a game that if they win could have turned around the season, reminded me of the '03 championship DVD and Robinson talking about Horry's in-and-out three that would have given the Lakers a 3-2 series lead and likely did the Spurs in for the third consecutive year to the Lakers. Said Robinson (to paraphrase), "there are one or two moments in the playoffs that you remember and they either go for you or they go against you and when that shot came out, I remember thinking to myself, it's our time".

Well, when that Ginobili shot rimmed out, I immediately thought to myself (in case it already wasn't painfully obvious), our time is over. Arguably the most clutch player on the team and one of the most clutch in the league get's a wide open corner three with the game on the line and misses, particularly with the Spurs in dire need of pulling a game like this out, on the road, against quality opposition. Obviously I can't say for sure, but I feel if this were any other year since the big three formed, that shot goes down. Tonight it didn't and as cheesy as it may sound, maybe that's a sign.

[timtonymanu]

On the other side of the coin, was I the only one who wanted to jump off a bridge when Pop put Finley in at the end of the third quarter right when the Spurs were starting to play pretty well? Finley hadn't played all night and hasn't hit a shot in months, yet Pop decides that's the time to put him in.

:hang

what disgusted me was Pop putting Finley in the closing seconds of the game? Flashbacks of the last two seasons.

[timvp]

Ginobili missing that potential game-tying three, in a game that if they win could have turned around the season, reminded me of the '03 championship DVD and Robinson talking about Horry's in-and-out three that would have given the Lakers a 3-2 series lead and likely did the Spurs in for the third consecutive year to the Lakers. Said Robinson (to paraphrase), "there are one or two moments in the playoffs that you remember and they either go for you or they go against you and when that shot came out, I remember thinking to myself, it's our time".

Well, when that Ginobili shot rimmed out, I immediately thought to myself (in case it already wasn't painfully obvious) our time is over. Arguably the most clutch player on the team and one of the most clutch in the league get's a wide open corner three with the game on the line and misses, particularly with the Spurs in dire need of pulling a game like this out, on the road, against quality opposition. Obviously I can't say for sure, but I feel if this were any other year since the big three formed, that shot goes down. Tonight it didn't and as cheesy as it may sound, maybe that's a sign.

:lmao A little dramatic, aren't we. A three-pointer that would have tied a game in February between two teams playing horribly was one of only a few season defining moments we can expect this year? If Manu hits that shot and the Spurs lose in overtime, no one remember that shot. As it was, a week from now no one will remember that shot.

[mexicanjunior]

As it was, a week from now no one will remember that shot.

Yeah, once the RRT ends at under .500, this shot will be the last thing on people's minds...

[z0sa]

I wonder how big our picture actually is .. there were some very strong stretches in that first 43 minutes, but everything just turned around from there, the same problems we've had all season came roaring back so suddenly, so predictably.

[TD 21]

:lmao A little dramatic, aren't we. A three-pointer that would have tied a game in February between two teams playing horribly was one of only a few season defining moments we can expect this year? If Manu hits that shot and the Spurs lose in overtime, no one remember that shot. As it was, a week from now no one will remember that shot.

How many more excuses are you going to come up with? This was the latest most embarrassing loss in a season filled with them and you're looking for silver linings and clinging to some blind hope based on what this franchise (not team because, this is a different team) did in the past around this time of year. Give it up, this team flat out isn't a contender anymore. One or two problems can be fixed, but when it's a new one every other game rearing it's head, it's clear that this is just a middle-of-the-pack also ran.

[timvp]

How many more excuses are you going to come up with? This was the latest most embarrassing loss in a season filled with them and you're looking for silver linings and clinging to some blind hope based on what this franchise (not team because, this is a different team) did in the past around this time of year. Give it up, this team flat out isn't a contender anymore. One or two problems can be fixed, but when it's a new one every other game rearing it's head, it's clear that this is just a middle-of-the-pack also ran.

You're the one who had flashbacks to championship DVDs and I'm the one clinging to hope? You are insinuating that a missed three-pointer in this ugly game could be the difference between a championship and not a championship and you are telling me to give it up? I said it wasn't a silver lining or an excuse. But I would think the fact that the Big Three looked healthy for the first time all season would be a notable event.

[SenorSpur]

So much for taking TD out on back-2-backs...

Webster was perfect from the 3-point line. You would think somebody would stay on that guy towards the end.

Since when did the Spurs defensive philosophy erode to the point where they're now giving up tons of wide open looks at the 3-pt arc?

[z0sa]

Since when did the Spurs defensive philosophy erode to the point where they're now giving up tons of wide open looks at the 3-pt arc?

Did Dyess miss both of those rotations? After playing so well.

[itzsoweezee]

From the beginning of the third quarter up until about halfway through the fourth quarter, that was some of the best spurs basketball i've seen all year. The defense during that time was tremendous.

I don't understand why Popovich didn't call timeout to get tony in the game when the offense was completely out of it in the fourth.

I hope there's a good reason Mason wasn't playing, because the Spurs could've really used his shooting in the fourth.

[HarlemHeat37]

The last Webster 3 was just horrible basketball IQ by the Spurs..3 guys went after Andre Miller on the drive, it was ridiculous..

Other than that, it was mostly slow rotations..that can improve a little with less miscues on missed rotations, but the Spurs perimeter players clearly lack the athleticism, as we all already know..

[Chieflion]

Did Dyess miss both of those rotations? After playing so well.
Both late Martell Webster 3s = Dice missed rotation because he was too busy fronting Aldridge. Didn't help it that the Spurs collapsed on Andre Miller late in the game.

[SenorSpur]

On the other side of the coin, was I the only one who wanted to jump off a bridge when Pop put Finley in at the end of the third quarter right when the Spurs were starting to play pretty well? Finley hadn't played all night and hasn't hit a shot in months, yet Pop decides that's the time to put him in.

:hang

No you weren't the only one. I was screaming at the TV.

The man-love continues.:bang

[TD 21]

You're the one who had flashbacks to championship DVDs and I'm the one clinging to hope? You are insinuating that a missed three-pointer in this ugly game could be the difference between a championship and not a championship and you are telling me to give it up? I said it wasn't a silver lining or an excuse. But I would think the fact that the Big Three looked healthy for the first time all season would be a notable event.

Way to take what I said out of context. You are clinging to hope and that's not at all what I'm insinuating, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. Notable, fine. Does it change the grand scheme of things? Not remotely. Healthy or not, the league has changed a lot the past two years and these guys have aged. Simply having them at full strength, while encouraging, is not enough.

[MaNu4Tres]

The last Webster 3 was just horrible basketball IQ by the Spurs..3 guys went after Andre Miller on the drive, it was ridiculous..

Other than that, it was mostly slow rotations..that can improve a little with less miscues on missed rotations, but the Spurs perimeter players clearly lack the athleticism, as we all already know..

They pretty much had to or Miller was going to have a wide open lay up since McDyess wanted to wrestle and over commit fronting Aldridge. Blazers made some tough shots and hit every open shot they took in the 4th quarter. Sometimes it just comes down to " making some damn shots". Which is something we haven't done in the 4th quarter against the top teams in the West all year.

[edgar]

You're the one who had flashbacks to championship DVDs and I'm the one clinging to hope? You are insinuating that a missed three-pointer in this ugly game could be the difference between a championship and not a championship and you are telling me to give it up? I said it wasn't a silver lining or an excuse. But I would think the fact that the Big Three looked healthy for the first time all season would be a notable event.

No Timvp, there is no notable event to be seen here..they don't have legitimate defence anymore and we won't win games even with a healthy trio playing horrible defense. Just ask Suns fans. The only notable event here is that the urge to make a trade has never been greater in the Spurs front office. :wakeup

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, it was good to see everyone looking healthy. And I'm assuming Mason is gone as of tomorrow or something.

But when it comes down to it, to me, this game is on Pop. He should have called a timeout at 4 minutes to go, 3 minutes to go, etc to stop the bleeding. He sent Tony to the scorer's table with 4 something left and Tony sat there on the ground til 2 minutes (or less). A timeout to re-group was really needed and Pop let them blow the lead. I know it's on the players for not executing/getting stops, but the coach needs to know when they need a little help to re-focus.

Tony sat at the scores table for FAR too long but the didn't really have time outs to blow. They were pretty low on them at that point.

In any event, you can't really put it on Pop. They played with NO urgency late in the game and had it on cruise control. That was the most frustrating aspect of tonight.

Yeah, they looked good and they 3rd quarter defense was excellent. Then they packed up and flew to LA before the game was over. The way they mentally checked out of this game was extremely disappointing for me.

[timvp]

Way to take what I said out of context.What did I take out of context? I just repeated what you said. You had flashbacks to a championship DVD after Manu's missed three. That was the context.


You are clinging to hope and that's not at all what I'm insulating, but thank you for putting words in my mouth.What exactly were you clinging to when you thought the Spurs lost the championship on that one shot?


Notable, fine. Does it change the grand scheme of things? Not remotely.

Are you serious? The Big Three being healthy doesn't change the grand scheme of things? The Spurs without a healthy Big Three have a 0% chance of winning the championship. Unless you want to tell me the Spurs have a 0% chance of winning the championship no matter what, then you aren't making sense.

And if you do want to say the Spurs have a 0% chance of winning the championship no matter what, then what exactly was the purpose of posting about your flashback to the championship DVD? Manu's miss altered the season how? Between not winning a championship and not winning a championship?

[HarlemHeat37]

They pretty much had to or Miller was going to have a wide open lay up since McDyess wanted to wrestle and over commit fronting Aldridge. Blazers made some tough shots and hit every open shot they took in the 4th quarter. Sometimes it just comes down to " making some damn shots". Which is something we haven't done in the 4th quarter against the top teams in the West all year.

I still don't think Manu should have went to help though..I'll have to re-watch, but I think Duncan was there on the lay up, it would have been a shot Miller could make, but I would have lived with a semi-contested lay up as opposed to a 3 that put the game out of reach..

I agree that Portland made some lucky shots though, but that's been happening against the Spurs all year..

[TD 21]

Tony sat at the scores table for FAR too long but the didn't really have time outs to blow. They were pretty low on them at that point.

In any event, you can't really put it on Pop. They played with NO urgency late in the game and had it on cruise control. That was the most frustrating aspect of tonight.

Yeah, they looked good and they 3rd quarter defense was excellent. Then they packed up and flew to LA before the game was over. The way they mentally checked out of this game was extremely disappointing for me.

Well apparently Parker, the freshest of all the Spurs, needed 12 minutes of rest in the second half. But hey, who cares? Who needs wins when the three best players on the team (get this) all played well in the same game. Hooray, championship here we come!

[timvp]

Who needs wins when the three best players on the team (get this) all played well in the same game. Hooray, championship here we come!

Reading apparently isn't fundamental.

[z0sa]

Does a healthy big 3 = contender status? I'm not so sure it does anymore. We got decent games from Blair, Dyess, and RJ as well, yet still couldn't notch a win. Don't wanna forget about Hill's contributions, either . .

[timvp]

Does a healthy big 3 = contender status? I'm not so sure it does anymore. Not by itself, no. But an unhealthy big 3 = automatic non-contender status.

The first step in becoming a contender is the big 3 being healthy. Again, it doesn't guarantee anything by itself but without that health there is nothing.

[TD 21]

What did I take out of context? I just repeated what you said. You had flashbacks to a championship DVD after Manu's missed three. That was the context.

What exactly were you clinging to when you thought the Spurs lost the championship on that one shot?



Are you serious? The Big Three being healthy doesn't change the grand scheme of things? The Spurs without a healthy Big Three have a 0% chance of winning the championship. Unless you want to tell me the Spurs have a 0% chance of winning the championship no matter what, then you aren't making sense.

And if you do want to say the Spurs have a 0% chance of winning the championship no matter what, then what exactly was the purpose of posting about your flashback to the championship DVD? Manu's miss altered the season how? Between not winning a championship and not winning a championship?

I said it reminded me of it. I didn't compare the two moments in significance though, which you're inferring I did.

Not anymore it doesn't. It helps, of course. But as witnessed tonight, even with all three (though I didn't think Duncan played all that well) playing relatively well, the Spurs still lost to a team missing it's go-to scorer, two centers, 6th man and the fill in for their go-to scorer. I don't know if I'd say 0% no matter what, how does 0.5% sound?

The purpose/point was that, in the past, given the situation this team is in, I feel that shot goes down and they use this win as a springboard. Now, it appears there is no end in sight because, it doesn't look like this is some slump or a situation where they need one big win to get over the hump or turn the corner. Instead, it looks like this is just what this team is now; mediocre and a pretender.

[HarlemHeat37]

McDyess was 2-8 from the field(10 boards too though) and Jefferson was 3-8 from the field and did nothing else, as usual..I wouldn't call those "decent" games..

There was also no 3-point shooting, no contributions at all from our #4, #5 and #6 wing players, and this team doesn't play D anymore..

I think the big 3 playing at the level we expect is easily enough to win a title..the role players aren't even close to being enough though..

[Spur-Addict]

I'm all for the half full approach, but we cannot continue to give games away when we have played so well. Portland made shots, and forced turnovers, so props to them. Where's the mental focus to close the game out? Transition defense was absolutely terrible. Shot selection has to improve in crunch time.

[TD 21]

Reading apparently isn't fundamental.

Don't take it out on me because you posted a ridiculous thread and didn't get the usual cadre of bouquets that you're used to and were probably expecting.

[z0sa]

McDyess was 2-8 from the field(10 boards too though) and Jefferson was 3-8 from the field and did nothing else, as usual..I wouldn't call those "decent" games..

Dyess played fantastic d on Aldridge most of the time, better than Tim Duncan did IMO, and snared those boards. He did concede a couple glaring mistakes when he didn't get a hand up on Webster. As for RJ, no it actually isn't a decent game for him, I agree. Blair and Hill both stepped up, though.

[timvp]

I don't know if I'd say 0% no matter what, how does 0.5% sound?

So after telling me to give it up and saying I'm clinging to hope, you haven't given up and are clinging to hope? Got it.

I'm sure even you can agree that without a healthy Big Three, that 0.5% goes down to 0.0%. (And note that this thread isn't about the Big Three playing well at the same time, it's about the Big Three being healthy for the first time all season. Huge difference.)

[jjktkk]

This team is one "Bowenesqe" type perimeter defender, who like Bruce, can score enough to keep defenses honest, away from truly contending.

[HarlemHeat37]

Dyess played fantastic d on Aldridge most of the time, better than Tim Duncan did IMO, and snared those boards. He did concede a couple glaring mistakes when he didn't get a hand up on Webster. As for RJ, no it actually isn't a decent game for him, I agree. Blair and Hill both stepped up, though.

I'll actually agree with McDyess, but he's usually automatic with his J..I'll say that he played well though, other than the missed rotations, which obviously hurt..

Jefferson is supposed to be a huge part of this team though..

[timvp]

*cue the flaming*


Don't take it out on me because you posted a ridiculous thread and didn't get the usual cadre of bouquets that you're used to and were probably expecting.

Now I gotta think this cat is just trolling. Either that or he needs to go back to post one and start from there.

[z0sa]

Not by itself, no. But an unhealthy big 3 = automatic non-contender status.

The first step in becoming a contender is the big 3 being healthy. Again, it doesn't guarantee anything by itself but without that health there is nothing.


Agreed; while it's a tad bit sad we're happy over our best guys just being healthy at the same period of time, it also gives you hope that this team's best days are still ahead of them. It takes time to get in the groove..

[TD 21]

So after telling me to give it up and saying I'm clinging to hope, you haven't given up and are clinging to hope? Got it.

I'm sure even you can agree that without a healthy Big Three, that 0.5% goes down to 0.0%. (And note that this thread isn't about the Big Three playing well at the same time, it's about the Big Three being healthy for the first time all season. Huge difference.)

And you're saying I lack reading comprehension? I'm not clinging to hope, but I also can't say with absolute 100% certainty that this team can't/won't win the championship. There's still a good chance they make the playoffs, so from there, technically every team has a chance.

Yeah, I just basically said as much, genius. But what you don't seem to understand is that, while it's not meaningless, it doesn't mean a whole lot anymore because, this team has major issues outside of them, even when they are all healthy/playing well, as witnessed tonight.


Now I gotta think this cat is just trolling. Either that or he needs to go back to post one and start from there.

I don't troll, as many who have conversed with me on this board can attest to. What's the matter, shocked someone doesn't agree with you for once? How dare I.

I saw this one coming...

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145866

[timvp]

Agreed; while it's a tad bit sad we're happy over our best guys just being healthy at the same period of time

Sad, yes. But also not totally unexpected. Heading into the season, most Spurs fans said that the health of the Big Three was the biggest concern. Unfortunately, it has taken this long for those three players to look even close to healthy at the same time.

The Celtics are kinda in the same boat in hoping for health ... so it's not like this is too unique. But Boston's advantage is they actually play well when healthy. The Spurs, on the other hand, still are a mediocre team even at 100% right now.

[MaNu4Tres]

We got decent games from Blair, Dyess, and RJ as well, yet still couldn't notch a win. Don't wanna forget about Hill, either . .

From what standpoint?

Blair needs to rotate a lot quicker from the weak side and become more aware on that end of the court. The Blazers' guards were just going straight to him off the pick and roll, where he was either late and out of position outside the circle, or he was late and had good position inside the circle.

All three of your suggested players had horrible and I mean horrible transition defense. I'm tempted to go back and watch the game because I guarantee you the Blazers scored at least 15-20 points off uncontested wide open opportunities in transition because our players lost their man or simply didn't communicate to pick up eachother's man in transition. All that takes is focus and energy. That's why it is so frustrating.


As for McDyess, I thought McDyess played great one on one defense on Aldridge. Aldridge just hit some really tough fade-aways and contested jumpers all game. I think McDyess is an under-rated one on one defender. He's defended Odom, Nowitzki and many other premiere power forwards quite well.

As for Hill, I think 38 minutes is too much for him. I've been beating this to death, but Spurs need to find a starting caliber well rounded wing to replace the Mason/ Bogans/ Finley combination and also to relieve Jefferson and Hill some.

[HarlemHeat37]

From what standpoint?

Blair needs to rotate a lot quicker from the weak side and become more aware on that end of the court. He was late most of the game in his rotations from the weak side. The Blazers were just going straight to him off the pick and roll, where he was either late and out of position outside the circle, or he was late and had good position inside the circle.

All three of your suggested players had horrible and I mean horrible transition defense. I'm tempted to go back and watch the game because I guarantee you the Blazers scored at least 15-20 points off uncontested wide open opportunities in transition because our players lost their man or simply didn't communicate to pick up eachother's man in transition. All that takes is focus and energy. That's why it is so frustrating.


As for McDyess, I thought McDyess played great one on one defense on Aldridge. Aldridge just hit some really tough fade-aways and contested jumpers all game. I think McDyess is an under-rated one on one defender. He's defended Odom, Nowitzki and many other premiere power forwards quite well.

As for Hill, I think 38 minutes is too much for him. I've been beating this to death, but Spurs need to find a starting caliber well rounded wing to replace the Mason/ Bogans/ Finley combination and also to relieve Jefferson and Hill some.

Well..they do have a young guy in Austin that could handle some bench minutes against athletic teams..

[sabar]

One check on the list of things we need to contend.

I haven't worried too much about health because you can't control that. The largest leap we need to make at the moment is in defense and consistency. These are things that the players and the coaches should be able to fix, whether through a trade or practice or whatever.

All you can do as a fan is hope the FO sees the same things.

[z0sa]

Jefferson is supposed to be a huge part of this team though..

He's gone through different stages, but at this point it almost seems like he just can't get into any sort of rhythm in his current role. What even is his current role? He either needs the Spurs to run a lot more, or he needs to dominate the ball a lot more. Neither will happen consistently with the Spurs squad as constructed.. I think he has a lot of unrealized potential with us, but he needs to accept his touches and make more out of them.

[MaNu4Tres]

Well..they do have a young guy in Austin that could handle some bench minutes against athletic teams..

Hairston is not ready and wouldn't be consistent enough to play 25-30 minutes a night. If Spurs want to improve their chances at getting past the 1st round this year, they need someone better than Mason/ Bogans/Finley and Hairston. Especially with R.J rubbing one out more games than not.

[jjktkk]

I wanna see timvp and td 21 throw down in the octagon.

[timvp]

And you're saying I lack reading comprehension? I'm not clinging to hope, but I also can't say with absolute 100% certainty that this team can't/won't win the championship. There's still a good chance they make the playoffs, so from there, technically every team has a chance.You're not clinging to hope but you haven't closed the door on a championship? What exactly does "clinging to hope" mean to you?


Yeah, I just basically said as much, genius. But what you don't seem to understand is that, while it's not meaningless, it doesn't mean a whole lot anymore because, this team has major issues outside of them, even when they are all healthy/playing well, as witnessed tonight. That's exactly what I've been saying. Show me anywhere that I said the Spurs don't have major issues. I've said multiple times being healthy in itself means nothing. Again, you are arguing against an opinion I haven't even stated.

So far you've gone after me for not giving up and supposedly having hope, when you yourself haven't given up and still have hope. Then your next move is to go after me for saying this team doesn't have major problems, which is something I didn't say. At least be based in reality. You are attacking your own opinions more than you are attacking anything I've actually said.


I don't troll, as many who have conversed with me on this board can attest to. What's the matter, shocked someone doesn't agree with you for once? How dare I.

:lmao Wow.

First of all, more people disagree than agree with me in this thread. Second of all, how can I be shocked when I cued this upcoming flaming in the opening post of the thread?

Got damn.

[timvp]

I wanna see timvp and td 21 throw down in the octagon.

:lol He's not arguing with me ... I'm not exactly sure who he's arguing with. We actually agree on everything, as weird as that is.

[sabar]

He's gone through different stages, but at this point it almost seems like he just can't get into any sort of rhythm in his current role. What even is his current role? He either needs the Spurs to run a lot more, or he needs to dominate the ball a lot more. Neither will happen consistently with the Spurs squad as constructed.. I think he has a lot of unrealized potential with us, but he needs to accept his touches and make more out of them.

He cannot be a huge part of this team. The team and him are not designed that way. Frankly, all I wanted was a Finley that would attempt some defense (and that's all we need). Jefferson doesn't need to go off for 24 ppg to compete, especially when you consider the way he gets his points. We'd be spending all game making plays for him.

The problem is that he is really expensive for what you get. Tough luck. We either trade him or keep him as a spot up shooter that can dunk and play no defense (pretty much 06 Finley).

Our interior and perimeter D are pretty bad, and they aren't helped by having Finley 2.0 and a coasting/still learning Dice. I don't think you can change Jefferson's output. Dice at least has the potential to turn it around and we know what he can produce as a role player.

As has been the issue all year, we have multiple problems. I have no clue how to solve them. Standing pat looks like it will be a huge gamble, hoping that all the pieces fall in place. A trade for any decent perimeter defender and scorer (the non-existent Bowen heir) is really needed, followed up by an interior defender.

At least we are healthy, for now. In theory the rest can actually be fixed. I dunno what the last team that actually did a massive retooling actually won the title the same year though. We are leaking oil everywhere and headed to a second round exit as is.

[z0sa]

From what standpoint?

Decent might be over exaggerating a bit, I agree, especially on the defensive end, but if you're expecting these guys to suddenly snap and get it overnight, you shouldn't be surprised at your disappointment. There's clearly work to be done and any steps we take in the right direction need to be taken seriously. Especially with a guy like Blair, who's a rookie and who is going to make mistakes, and who is not going to be respected by the refs and who is not going to be perfect. One criticizes him and demands he get better but you do it with the fact he's inexperienced and he's done a lot more than most expected in mind; and even Hill, who is overrated defensively and still has a lot of work to do on that end because he's still not used to playing consistently against this (starting) level of competition yet.


Blair needs to rotate a lot quicker from the weak side and become more aware on that end of the court. The Blazers' guards were just going straight to him off the pick and roll, where he was either late and out of position outside the circle, or he was late and had good position inside the circle.

Blair definitely has a lot of work to do on defense, and he didn't get a lot of defensive rebounds tonight either.. but he got some shots to fall (including a nice putback dunk) and nailed 3/4 FTs. Gotta take the good with the bad; Pop could simply stop playing him a la Hill, and no one wants that.


All three of your suggested players had horrible and I mean horrible transition defense. I'm tempted to go back and watch the game because I guarantee you the Blazers scored at least 15-20 points off uncontested wide open opportunities in transition because our players lost their man or simply didn't communicate to pick up eachother's man in transition. All that takes is focus and energy. That's why it is so frustrating.

They were making a concerted effort to run, as it was essentially their only offensive weapon against us. Miller is just about the best you can ask for to do that, as well. They killed us in transition and they got good looks in the halfcourt, but things didn't look out of hand until the last 5 minutes.


As for McDyess, I thought McDyess played great one on one defense on Aldridge. Aldridge just hit some really tough fade-aways and contested jumpers all game. I think McDyess is an under-rated one on one defender. He's defended Odom, Nowitzki and many other premiere power forwards quite well.

Agreed. I thought his d has been amazing through stretches, but when he fouls he totally loses all his rhythm. At least he's begun living up to his second-half reputation.

On Hill, it's really hard to say what is too much for him. He's got the talent, but he's still rough around the edges. I like him getting the experience but with Mason rotting on the bench it's a questionable call. He also missed a few very open looks tonight and that ended up hurting us.

[edgar]

You're not clinging to hope but you haven't closed the door on a championship? What exactly does "clinging to hope" mean to you?

That's exactly what I've been saying. Show me anywhere that I said the Spurs don't have major issues. I've said multiple times being healthy in itself means nothing. Again, you are arguing against an opinion I haven't even stated.

So far you've gone after me for not giving up and supposedly having hope, when you yourself haven't given up and still have hope. Then your next move is to go after me for saying this team doesn't have major problems, which is something I didn't say. At least be based in reality. You are attacking your own opinions more than you are attacking anything I've actually said.



:lmao Wow.

First of all, more people disagree than agree with me in this thread. Second of all, how can I be shocked when I cued this upcoming flaming in the opening post of the thread?

Got damn.

Yup, I hardly agree with anything he says...Timvp is more of a motivator for the lost sheep that are willing to clinge to any bones of hope that they can get.

:hungry:

[z0sa]

He cannot be a huge part of this team.

If this is the case, I was very wrong in my preseason expectations.. I actually believed we would run our offense through him during some stretches, but we've rarely attempted feeding him multiple possessions over a short period of time to try and get him going.




The problem is that he is really expensive for what you get. Tough luck. We either trade him or keep him as a spot up shooter that can dunk and play no defense (pretty much 06 Finley).

There's a reason we traded our garbage for him - he's not worth the pricetag. Just gotta forget about basing yuor expectations on that, especially when the team never runs their offense through him like he's a 14 million dollar man.


Our interior and perimeter D are pretty bad, and they aren't helped by having Finley 2.0 and a coasting/still learning Dice. I don't think you can change Jefferson's output. Dice at least has the potential to turn it around and we know what he can produce as a role player.

I'm liking what Dyess is doing lately. When he brings what he brought tonight (minus the horribly timed defensive mishaps), we're a much tougher team defensively and opponents have to respect his shot. If he can continue living up to his second half reputation, I have a lot more hope for this season still..

[HarlemHeat37]

Hairston is not ready and wouldn't be consistent enough to play 25-30 minutes a night. If Spurs want to improve their chances at getting past the 1st round this year, they need someone better than Mason/ Bogans/Finley and Hairston. Especially with R.J rubbing one out more games than not.

I have to disagree..

There's no reason at all that Hairston shouldn't be getting 10 to 15 MPG on this Spurs team that desperately needs athleticism and D on the wing IMO..especially when inferior players like Bogans and Finley are getting 20 MPG to do nothing..

Of course he isn't ready for 25-30 MPG, I agree..

I agree with you that we need a legit starter on the wing, especially for athletic/defensive purposes..either that or a legit big to help Timmy..the better defenses in the NBA use 1 of these 2 methods to play good D, some teams have both..either have the length/athleticism in the paint or have the athletes/good defenders on the perimeter to pressure the ball-handlers and rotate..

Either one works..the Spurs need to get that legit big or that legit wing player..I won't hope for both since that's too greedy, but we certainly need at least one of them..

Boston has their defenders in the paint and the all-around basketball IQ..Orlando has a 1-man defense in Howard with Barnes to guard the best player(this one isn't a good example to follow..I've been watching every Magic game since I follow Carter and Howard's ability as a defensive anchor is just unreal)..Charlotte uses the good perimeter defenders as pressure..the Lakers have a little bit of both, but they primarily play good D due to their size in the frontcourt..Cleveland has the perimeter approach with Varajeo being a mobile big to help..

So it can go either way..we don't have either right now..so a move has to be made..


As for Jefferson, I really hope they're trying to move him as hard as possible..he really isn't going to fit..

[SpurNation]

I can't comment too much because I didn't get to see the game. But damnit man...when is someone going to step up and help this team win these types of games?

I appreciate the fact that the big 3 looked great. For timvp is correct...this team doesn't have a chance if they aren't healthy.

But what is it about RJ? This guy should be able to take control at some point in a game and give this team something other than mediocre play. The team gets more out of a second year player and rookie than it does from a high paid supposedly top caliber seasoned vet like Jefferson. You can't tell me it's just the "system" that takes time to learn...others on the team are new to it too and seemed to have gotten it before Jefferson.

As a business person this erks to me no end seeing somebody get paid as much as this guy and produces as little as he does. :bang

[the crimson blur]

Oh timvp, optimistic to a fault.

At some point, you have to panic. That point was 5 games ago. Now, I know where the team is, and I know our future. We aren't good enough, healthy or not. Simple as that. And we don't have enough time to change that with our current roster. I'm an optimistic guy, but even I can see that.

[MannyIsGod]

Agreed; while it's a tad bit sad we're happy over our best guys just being healthy at the same period of time, it also gives you hope that this team's best days are still ahead of them. It takes time to get in the groove..

Remember that thread where you argued with me about how health wasn't the big concern and no Spurs fan should be worried about the Spurs health?

:lol

So classic.

[kobyz]

we can't win close games anymore

[timvp]

Yup, I hardly agree with anything he says...Timvp is more of a motivator for the lost sheep that are willing to clinge to any bones of hope that they can get.

:hungry:


Oh timvp, optimistic to a fault.

At some point, you have to panic. That point was 5 games ago. Now, I know where the team is, and I know our future. We aren't good enough, healthy or not. Simple as that. And we don't have enough time to change that with our current roster. I'm an optimistic guy, but even I can see that.

What motivation or optimism have I offered? All I've pointed out is that the Big Three appear to be healthy for the first time this season.

I think this team as currently constructed has about a 1 in 200 chance of winning a championship this season. Maybe less. I say the chances of even just being healthy come playoff time is like 15% ... and then you have to factor in playing great basketball. As I said earlier in the thread, a championship is a long, long shot.





Oh and I've pushed the panic button long ago.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah but you're not cutting yourself yet, Timvp.

[raspsa]

RJ disappointed with his poor defensive effort. One Andre Miller layup he could easily have prevented by simply stepping in front of Miller to either take a charge or force him to stop but he did neither and a layup resulted. On offense, he did another disappearing act. The only entertainment he provided was when he got a tongue lashing from Pop and he was trying to keep other Spurs between Pop and himself.. I think he sat down for a while then all of a sudden his bald head made a reappearnace in the Spurs huddle. He was really getting it from Pop.

[the crimson blur]

What motivation or optimism have I offered? All I've pointed out is that the Big Three appear to be healthy for the first time this season.

I think this team as currently constructed has about a 1 in 200 chance of winning a championship this season. Maybe less. I say the chances of even just being healthy come playoff time is like 15% ... and then you have to factor in playing great basketball. As I said earlier in the thread, a championship is a long, long shot.

Oh and I've pushed the panic button long ago.

Ah, maybe I misunderstood you then.

I think we all agree we are absolutely screwed then. At least we are in agreement.

[Bruno]

The last time timvp made a positive thread after a loss was about Pop going with a playoff like rotation. He was happy to see Pop going with RMJ instead of Bogans. The result is that now Bogans plays and RMJ get DNP-CD.

I hope that it won't turn like that this time... :downspin:

[timvp]

The last time timvp made a positive thread after a loss was about Pop going with a playoff like rotation. He was happy to see Pop going with RMJ instead of Bogans. The result is that now Bogans plays and RMJ get DNP-CD.

I hope that it won't turn like that this time... :downspin:

Not to mention Finley's return :hang

[HarlemHeat37]

Not to mention Finley's return :hang

Should we really be using words like 'return' when it comes to Finley?..

He's going to be here forever..I won't be surprised if his jersey is retired and the Spurs change their logo to Fin's face..

[timvp]

Should we really be using words like 'return' when it comes to Finley?..

He's going to be here forever..I won't be surprised if his jersey is retired and the Spurs change their logo to Fin's face..

Now that has the makings of a legendary photoshop :tu

[Mr.Robinson]

You have got to be shitting me?

I agree with your comment, but there is no silver lining here.

Ginobili missing that potential game-tying three, in a game that if they win could have turned around the season, reminded me of the '03 championship DVD and Robinson talking about Horry's in-and-out three that would have given the Lakers a 3-2 series lead and likely did the Spurs in for the third consecutive year to the Lakers. Said Robinson (to paraphrase), "there are one or two moments in the playoffs that you remember and they either go for you or they go against you and when that shot came out, I remember thinking to myself, it's our time".

Well, when that Ginobili shot rimmed out, I immediately thought to myself (in case it already wasn't painfully obvious), our time is over. Arguably the most clutch player on the team and one of the most clutch in the league get's a wide open corner three with the game on the line and misses, particularly with the Spurs in dire need of pulling a game like this out, on the road, against quality opposition. Obviously I can't say for sure, but I feel if this were any other year since the big three formed, that shot goes down. Tonight it didn't and as cheesy as it may sound, maybe that's a sign.

LOL Nobody makes the last second shot 100% of the time.

[DesignatedT]

dyess, RJ, blair continue to keep missing rotation after rotation after rotation. and when they arent missing the rotations they arent contributing in any other way because they are so damn focused on the rotations.... those guys are thinking to much rather than playing and you cant do that.... when the game gets chippy and it goes to crunch time... then those guys start playing basketball like they know how... and then they miss more rotations...... not so much blair on this but dyess and RJ big time.... thats the biggest problem we have...... plain and simple.... its not as dramatic as people think.

[ezau]

The way this team is built, it can make the playoffs but it won't win a single round. The clutchness is no longer there and sadly, there is that lingering thought that our big three is no longer that good. The good thing about the game is that we played good enough to win on the second day of a back-to-back against quality opposition. Fuck, this same Blazers team can beat a healthy Lakers team at home. Why the hell are you guys so fucking surprised?

[ulosturedge]

Good dump Mason so we can Malik up here. That way we have someone who can play both sides of the court and will play with a ton of energy and heart. Unlike half our team.

[MaNu4Tres]

Good dump Mason so we can Malik up here. That way we have someone who can play both sides of the court and will play with a ton of energy and heart. Unlike half our team.

Good point. Although I rather dump Mason to bring back Five Oh and Avery since Hill can only play shooting guard from now on.

It better be a priority because what this team needs is someone to dribble the ball up the court and give Manu or Tim the ball to start the offense 10-15 minutes a game. With that I think our chances for number 5 would improve drastically. Only TRUE point guards can do that. We need a TRUE point guard to back up Tony don't you agree?

[Slippy]

The Spurs need Tim to step it up defensively. One on one he's trying hard but struggling. As a
help depfender down low this team misses him big-time. More troubling is a lot of guys are spotting him up because he giving too much room backing off. The mobilty is just not there so Tim is forced to adjust. He sure isn't 100 percent right now .

Aside from that the big 3 are looking great.

[MaNu4Tres]

Good point. Although I rather dump Mason to bring back Five Oh and Avery since Hill can only play shooting guard from now on.

It better be a priority because what this team needs is someone to dribble the ball up the court and give Manu or Tim the ball to start the offense 10-15 minutes a game. With that I think our chances for number 5 would improve drastically. Only TRUE point guards can do that. We need a TRUE point guard to back up Tony don't you agree?

Oh also, anyone think Mark Jackson is available ??? Spurs really need an assist machine like him to dribble the ball up the court 10-15 minutes a game to get Manu and Tim the ball to start the half court offense. Hill is so terrible at that. What a mistake it has been putting him at back up point guard.

[ploto]

This team has developed really bad habits, and when they "get away with it," it reinforces those bad habits. They learned absolutely nothing from blowing the lead to Sacramento.

[urunobili]

I think it was the first time I have cussed in my native tongue in a Spurs game blog... I was REALLY REALLY frustrated... :depressed

http://fc00.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/115/7/e/__Jump_Off_a_Cliff___Emoticon_by_neek_zique.gif

[texwheel]

Yes, we need the big 3 healthy, but when we were winning we had a Bowen defense on the perimeter and someone ( like a Jaren Jackson, Steve Kerr, Bowen,etc ) who could make the 3 when Tim was mobbed. I don't think we ever won it all shooting 23% from the 3. It seems strange that all of a sudden everyone, Manu, Finley, Bonner, Boggans, has lost the ability to sink it beyond the arc.

[alchemist]

Yes, we need the big 3 healthy, but when we were winning we had a Bowen defense on the perimeter and someone ( like a Jaren Jackson, Steve Kerr, Bowen,etc ) who could make the 3 when Tim was mobbed. I don't think we ever won it all shooting 23% from the 3. It seems strange that all of a sudden everyone, Manu, Finley, Bonner, Boggans, has lost the ability to sink it beyond the arc.
they have cooled off on their 3pt shooting :depressed

Before Bonner's Injury:
http://i49.tinypic.com/nycnpz.png
Mades: 6.96
Attempts: 18.46
Percentage: 38%

After Bonner's Injury:
http://i47.tinypic.com/6ekvih.png
Mades: 5.83
Attempts: 16.75
Percentage: 35%

[z0sa]

Remember that thread where you argued with me about how health wasn't the big concern and no Spurs fan should be worried about the Spurs health?

:lol

So classic.

I remember you crying about this team's biggest obstacle being health and the whole "if you don't agree you are stupid" line, both of which are still wrong for the same reasons.

This team's biggest obstacle is the LA Lakers. Not getting healthy, we are rapidly approaching 'healthy as can be' according to the Spurs FO and doctors (if you conclude TP is about the best we can expect with his PF), and our main guys ARE healthy as can be and pretty much have been since our exchange and before, TP's situation in mind. Do you have that inside info I asked for or are you still just saying you know better than the Spurs trainers/personnel?

And even at 100% health, we may not get past LA or even a team like the Mavericks.

What else did you misunderstand in our original exchange?

[Chomag]

Good dump Mason so we can Malik up here. That way we have someone who can play both sides of the court and will play with a ton of energy and heart. Unlike half our team.


Even if Spurs called Hairston back he would just sit there like Mason is doing right now.

As long as Pop has Finely, bonner, and Boguns in his clutches he would be even lucky to be allowed to be out there for warm ups. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I remember you crying about this team's biggest obstacle being health and the whole "if you don't agree you are stupid" line, both of which are still wrong for the same reasons.

This team's biggest obstacle is the LA Lakers. Not getting healthy, we are rapidly approaching 'healthy as can be' according to the Spurs FO and doctors (if you conclude TP is about the best we can expect with his PF), and our main guys ARE healthy as can be and pretty much have been since our exchange and before, TP's situation in mind. Do you have that inside info I asked for or are you still just saying you know better than the Spurs trainers/personnel?

And even at 100% health, we may not get past LA or even a team like the Mavericks.

What else did you misunderstand in our original exchange?

Oh was that it? Too bad you bring up a whole new angle in this post than you did in that thread.

Its ok dude, you got owned (again). You're used to it by now, right?

[Chomag]

Although I do agree that it's nice to have seen the big 3 so healthy, However it's very concerning that Spurs still lost to a unhealthy depleted Portland team with our healthy team.

Anyway, guess at this point you gotta scratch and claw for positives.

[z0sa]

Oh was that it? Too bad you bring up a whole new angle in this post than you did in that thread.

No, I didn't. You simply misunderstood what I said.

Anything else you misunderstood from our original exchange? Go ahead and bump it if it means this much to you. No reason to derail timvp's thread over one man's bitterness.


Its ok dude, you got owned (again). You're used to it by now, right?

Stating your opinion as a fact doesn't make it so

[z0sa]

btw why the lame "you got owned again you're used to it by now huh?" comment. You've got 33,000 posts and never been owned by anyone's count or measure, huh? You've rarely even spoken to me, much less argued enough to own me at anything. Whose ownage of me are you claiming, exactly? Lame comebacks a thing of yours, perhaps I should be laughing and brushing off a clear joke.

[Bigzax]

it's great when the big 3 are healthy...

but the real big picture is championship contention.

they may be healthy, but our defense is on it's last legs.

no defense. no championship. no happiness.

Help us RC1 Kenobi...you're our only hope.

[Cane]

I agree with the OP. And despite the poor 3-point shooting (which is supposed to be one of our strengths) and relatively poor defense in key situations (again another past strength); the away game came down to the wire and was well within grasp.

A loss is still a loss though - hopefully this adds more fuel to their fire.

[arakkus]

One other change I would like to pop to make at end of games is do a lineup of:

duncan mcdyess ginobili hill parker

Leave Jefferson on the bench at the end we want guys out there with energy. I don't mind him playing throughout the game and getting a few points but he is a waste at end of game. My money would be on Ginobili, Hill, or parker getting in there to get that loose rebound or play help defense or make that desperation shot over Jefferson anyday.

[z0sa]

make that desperation shot over Jefferson anyday.

Someone forgot Jefferson's gamewinner from a few games ago

[TD 21]

You're not clinging to hope but you haven't closed the door on a championship? What exactly does "clinging to hope" mean to you?

That's exactly what I've been saying. Show me anywhere that I said the Spurs don't have major issues. I've said multiple times being healthy in itself means nothing. Again, you are arguing against an opinion I haven't even stated.

So far you've gone after me for not giving up and supposedly having hope, when you yourself haven't given up and still have hope. Then your next move is to go after me for saying this team doesn't have major problems, which is something I didn't say. At least be based in reality. You are attacking your own opinions more than you are attacking anything I've actually said.



:lmao Wow.

First of all, more people disagree than agree with me in this thread. Second of all, how can I be shocked when I cued this upcoming flaming in the opening post of the thread?

Got damn.


:lol He's not arguing with me ... I'm not exactly sure who he's arguing with. We actually agree on everything, as weird as that is.

I'm not clinging to hope in the least, all I'm saying is, mathematically, any team that makes the playoffs has a chance to win the championship. We know full-well that the Bobcats, Raptors, Bulls, Heat, etc. aren't going to win the championship, but we can't with 100% certainty say that. We can say there's about a 99.9% chance they won't, but not 100. I'd give the Spurs a slightly better chance than those teams, but not by much. You, on the other hand, are looking for silver linings after every game. How could anyone have been pleased or encouraged in any way about the Kings game? Yet, somehow you were.

There's a fundamental difference in this whole back-and-forth. While we both acknowledge that this team has problems, it seems you think they're fixable within' this season. Maybe internally, maybe with a trade (a realistic one). I no longer think that way. I don't see this as being fixable, I think what we see is what we get. Don't get me wrong, the front office should at least try to better the team in an attempt to squeeze out one last championship, but I don't think anything that can realistically be done in the relatively short time remaining in this season will change this teams fate.

I think you thought that if you threw in something like "cue the flaming", that you wouldn't actually get much flaming. You probably thought that would help ease the frustration, tension and anger many were feeling after the latest most embarrassing loss in a season filled with them. Then, I showed up, took you to task and it caught you off-guard.

[Leftyventricle]

TNT OT made me feel better:
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/tnt_overtime/2010/02/04/20100204_inside_5.nba/

[TIMMYD!]

When I saw Webster standing at the three with 20 seconds left, I knew he was going to drain that shit.

[timvp]

I'm not clinging to hope in the least, all I'm saying is, mathematically, any team that makes the playoffs has a chance to win the championship. We know full-well that the Bobcats, Raptors, Bulls, Heat, etc. aren't going to win the championship, but we can't with 100% certainty say that. We can say there's about a 99.9% chance they won't, but not 100. :lol Outside of factoring in plane crashes, you can eliminate the championship chances of at least a few teams that make the playoffs. And even if you want to factor in unforeseen tradgedy, those teams would have about a 0.01% chance. You giving the Spurs a 0.5% chance means you think the Spurs have 50 times more than a "no chance" team ... which is indeed clinging to hope whether you want to admit to it or not.


There's a fundamental difference in this whole back-and-forth. While we both acknowledge that this team has problems, it seems you think they're fixable within' this season. Maybe internally, maybe with a trade (a realistic one). I no longer think that way. I don't see this as being fixable, I think what we see is what we get. Don't get me wrong, the front office should at least try to better the team in an attempt to squeeze out one last championship, but I don't think anything that can realistically be done in the relatively short time remaining in this season will change this teams fate.

Yet you were the one having emo flashbacks to championship DVDs after Manu missed that three. If you think a championship is an impossibility, why have such a wrist-cutting breakdown when no matter what happens, the Spurs are in the same boat? Since you claim to have completely given up (even if the chances you give the team don't add up to that claim), you shouldn't have been emotionally effected in the least.


I think you thought that if you threw in something like "cue the flaming", that you wouldn't actually get much flaming. You probably thought that would help ease the frustration, tension and anger many were feeling after the latest most embarrassing loss in a season filled with them. Then, I showed up, took you to task and it caught you off-guard.

:lmao Again, I question whether you took the time to read the thread. Plenty of people disagreed with me -- many with much harsher reactions than you. My issue with you is that you have been disagreeing with me in this thread on things I never claimed in the first place. It's difficult (and comical) to argue with someone who is arguing more with himself than anyone else.

I'd still like to know one thing we actually disagree on that you haven't invented out of thin air.


P.S.

If you think timvp shies away from being "taken to task" regarding his Spurs takes, you haven't been at SpursTalk very long and have never read a whottt back and forth.

[timtonymanu]

Should we really be using words like 'return' when it comes to Finley?..

He's going to be here forever..I won't be surprised if his jersey is retired and the Spurs change their logo to Fin's face..

if he gets his jersey retired before Bowen or even gets chosen over Bowen, i will personally go to SA and kick whoever approves that in the balls.

[TD 21]

:lol Outside of factoring in plane crashes, you can eliminate the championship chances of at least a few teams that make the playoffs. And even if you want to factor in unforeseen tradgedy, those teams would have about a 0.01% chance. You giving the Spurs a 0.5% chance means you think the Spurs have 50 times more than a "no chance" team ... which is indeed clinging to hope whether you want to admit to it or not.



Yet you were the one having emo flashbacks to championship DVDs after Manu missed that three. If you think a championship is an impossibility, why have such a wrist-cutting breakdown when no matter what happens, the Spurs are in the same boat? Since you claim to have completely given up (even if the chances you give the team don't add up to that claim), you shouldn't have been emotionally effected in the least.



:lmao Again, I question whether you took the time to read the thread. Plenty of people disagreed with me -- many with much harsher reactions than you. My issue with you is that you have been disagreeing with me in this thread on things I never claimed in the first place. It's difficult (and comical) to argue with someone who is arguing more with himself than anyone else.

I'd still like to know one thing we actually disagree on that you haven't invented out of thin air.


P.S.

If you think timvp shies away from being "taken to task" regarding his Spurs takes, you haven't been at SpursTalk very long and have never read a whottt back and forth.

Let's not get into semantics; you get the point. You can't say with absolute 100% certainty that any team that makes the playoffs isn't going to win the championship because, technically, they all have a chance. If I were clinging to hope, why would I deny that I was? What would I have to gain by doing this?

emo flashbacks? For the umpteenth time, the championship DVD was just an example. I'm not comparing the two moments in terms of significance. I saw that Ginobili miss as symbolic of where this team is now and I'm not just talking about a slump or needing to turn the corner. Who said I was emotionally effected? It was an example that you either didn't get or blew out of proportion.

I'm not sure how you don't think that we're disagreeing; we are. You're clinging to hope, looking for silver linings, getting giddy over even highly unimpressive wins like the Kings game and still pulling this "believe" nonsense after every game, while I've accepted that, barring something drastic and unforeseen (and even then, it's unlikely), it's over. What's so hard to understand about that?

It's not hard to find out how long I've been at SpursTalk, genius. From what I've seen (I don't begrudge you of this if that's what you think, in all honesty, I enjoy reading your game thoughts generally, I'm just calling it like I see it), you're rarely taken to task and usually receive glowing remarks.

[Booharv]

This team is one "Bowenesqe" type perimeter defender, who like Bruce, can score enough to keep defenses honest, away from truly contending.

[timvp]

You can't say with absolute 100% certainty that any team that makes the playoffs isn't going to win the championship because, technically, they all have a chance.The point is that you gave the Spurs a 0.5% chance of winning a championship. That is a better chance than anyone would give a team with no shot at a championship like the Bucks or whatever scrub team is at the bottom of the East's bracket. The difference between the 0.5% you give the Spurs and the standard "no chance" championship percentage of the Bucks is proof of you clinging to hope.

It's not really arguable. Math is saying you are clinging to hope. Unless you want to say the Bucks have a 1 in 200 chance of winning the championship or you want to go back and lower the Spurs' percentage, there's nothing to argue.


If I were clinging to hope, why would I deny that I was?
Uh obviously so you don't look like a hypocrite for saying timvp is clinging to hope while you yourself are clinging to hope.


I'm not sure how you don't think that we're disagreeing; we are. You're clinging to hopeLink?


, looking for silver linings,One lineup related silver lining. Got another link or are you just basing it off that one thread?


getting giddy over even highly unimpressive wins like the Kings gameLink?


and still pulling this "believe" nonsense after every gameSo one word has you this butthurt?


while I've accepted that, barring something drastic and unforeseen (and even then, it's unlikely), it's over. What's so hard to understand about that?The question is what is so hard for you to understand that I've repeatedly said the same thing. You are trying to argue with me about something I agree with you about. It's weird, honestly.


It's not hard to find out how long I've been at SpursTalk, genius.Not everyone begins posting on SpursTalk the day they find the forum, pal. Some people *gasp* read first. Then again, seeing how you've failed to do much reading before jumping into this thread, I should have assumed better.

I apologize.


From what I've seen (I don't begrudge you of this if that's what you think, in all honesty, I enjoy reading your game thoughts generally, I'm just calling it like I see it), you're rarely taken to task and usually receive glowing remarks.I don't know what's more comical: that hypothesis or the fact that you arrived at it after being on SpursTalk for a couple of weeks. Don't feel special because I've responded to your waywardness in this thread -- it's actually quite the common occurrence.

[barbacoataco]

Spurs problems IMO-
1- Parker is playing injured. Since he has been there most consistent player the last couple of years this is huge. Ginobili is also diminished.
2- The RJ trade has so far been a disaster. His defense isn't there and his offense is hit and miss.
3- The defense is not good enough. The loss of Bowen is key here.

Possible fixes-
1- Hope Parker gets healthy.
2- Hope Jefferson gets better as the season progresses. Who knows, he has been streaky in the past.
3- Hope McDyess continues to improve on the defensive end, Hill can improve on the perimeter D, and also if Parker was healthy, his defense would be better.
I always have faith.

[Slippy]

The way Tony and Manu looked should be positives of this thread. They both looked great out there and healthy . Parker was hitting his jumper with confidence, while Manu was attacking the rim and finishing like we're used to.

[Leetonidas]

Some Spurs fans are such whiny pussies. Get over it faggots, it's just a fucking game. And stop whining and jumping off a cliff already, it ain't April yet.

[vander]

Bonner's hand getting better

we'll start winning left and right once he starts hitting the 3 again and getting 15-20 minutes a game

[TD 21]

The point is that you gave the Spurs a 0.5% chance of winning a championship. That is a better chance than anyone would give a team with no shot at a championship like the Bucks or whatever scrub team is at the bottom of the East's bracket. The difference between the 0.5% you give the Spurs and the standard "no chance" championship percentage of the Bucks is proof of you clinging to hope.

It's not really arguable. Math is saying you are clinging to hope. Unless you want to say the Bucks have a 1 in 200 chance of winning the championship or you want to go back and lower the Spurs' percentage, there's nothing to argue.


Uh obviously so you don't look like a hypocrite for saying timvp is clinging to hope while you yourself are clinging to hope.

Link?

One lineup related silver lining. Got another link or are you just basing it off that one thread?

Link?

So one word has you this butthurt?

The question is what is so hard for you to understand that I've repeatedly said the same thing. You are trying to argue with me about something I agree with you about. It's weird, honestly.

Not everyone begins posting on SpursTalk the day they find the forum, pal. Some people *gasp* read first. Then again, seeing how you've failed to do much reading before jumping into this thread, I should have assumed better.

I apologize.

I don't know what's more comical: that hypothesis or the fact that you arrived at it after being on SpursTalk for a couple of weeks. Don't feel special because I've responded to your waywardness in this thread -- it's actually quite the common occurrence.

I just threw out a random number to make my point and here you are, like the championship DVD example, completely blowing it out of proportion and over-analyzing it.

Despite what you may think, I'm not clinging to hope. I'm not an odds maker, but yes, technically, if the Bucks qualify for the playoffs, they have a chance. The Spurs percentage should be lowered, but you get my point; you're just flat out being argumentative.

I don't need a link; just go back and re-read all your game thoughts, particularly the Kings game. Or how about this very thread?

Again I refer to your Kings game thoughts.

We don't agree and I'm not sure why you think we do. Unless I missed something, I don't recall you ever saying that this was not a championship team and I'm not just talking about currently.

I didn't begin posting the day I found the forum either, but you can still see when I began posting, so you should at least have some kind of idea around when I came to this board. Oh my god, you mean I didn't read every last word in a long, drawn out thread? I read enough to see your ridiculous take and that's all that matters in this case.

Why would I feel "special" talking to some random person on a message board? Get over yourself.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ehhhh we need a miracle