Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

[ezau]

Late in the regular season, he's mediocre at best. At first I thought he's going to make some improvements, but look at him now. He's content to cash in all the money that he gets from Holt and that's it. The sad part is, everybody thought that he's going to be the player that would put us over the hump.

[DesignatedT]

im pretty sure everyone here knows this already...

[SCdac]

We got him for a 38 year old player who lost a step and fell out of our starting unit and two 30+ year old bigmen who right now combine for a whopping 12.8 MPG, 2.0 PPG, 2.5 RPG, and 0.4 BPG... Hardly a bad trade IMO.

[timvp]

Are you sure about that?

Sincerely,

Luis Scola

[ezau]

We got him for a 38 year old player who lost a step and fell out of our starting unit and two 30+ year old bigmen who right now combine for a whopping 12.8 MPG, 2.0 PPG, 2.5 RPG, and 0.4 BPG... Hardly a bad trade IMO.

lol being the puzzle to complete the big 4
lol 14 million dollars a year
lol dynamic wing player
lol the next sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
lol the next bruce bowen
lol the last piece to push us past the lakers

[DesignatedT]

eliot hack

[MaNu4Tres]

lol being the puzzle to complete the big 4
lol 14 million dollars a year
lol dynamic wing player
lol the next sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
lol the next bruce bowen
lol the last piece to push us past the lakers

Who would you rather have right now Oberto and Thomas or Jefferson?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

lol being the puzzle to complete the big 4
lol 14 million dollars a year
lol dynamic wing player
lol the next sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
lol the next bruce bowen
lol the last piece to push us past the lakers

Well it's not like we gave any value back though, so I can't see how the trade in itself can be so bad. Unless you claim that this same team, without RJ, would have been a contender.

The trade was a good one, he fact that RJ hasn't yet gelled doesn't make it a bad one.

[024]

spurs didn't really give anything up for jefferson. but yeah, he sucks pretty hard right now.

[ezau]

Well it's not like we gave any value back though, so I can't see how the trade in itself can be so bad. Unless you claim that this same team, without RJ, would have been a contender.

The trade was a good one, he fact that RJ hasn't yet gelled doesn't make it a bad one.

Dick is a bad fit and I understand that many Spurs fans are disappointed with his lackluster play. If you're a piece that fits badly, there's simply no way of for you to turn it around. It's also compounded that POP doesn't have any clue on how to use him. More than anything else, it's all mental for him from hereon. He's young, very athletic, and quite talented. He simply just doesn't have the mental toughness that can bring his game to another level

[FilSpursFan]

RJ has to go...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Dick is a bad fit and I understand that many Spurs fans are disappointed with this lackluster play. If you're a piece that fits badly, there's simply no way of for him to turn it around. It's also compounded that POP doesn't have any clue to use him

True, he hasn't been too good, but it's premature to say he can't turn it around. In all honesty, his offense hasn't been that disappointing, it's his defense that has been the huge problem. That said, even if the Spurs knew he wouldn't be a good fit, they'd probably still do the trade if only for the talent upgrade.It's not like we could have had the $14 mil to use on another player, is it?

I only hope their ( the FO ) disappointment an desperation doesn't force them into acquiring another bad contract, in order to get rid of RJ or in search for a quick fix. I'd rather they stay pat than overreact.

[slick'81]

worst trade no scola by far

[Rogue]

It's mainly due to the lack of a pass-first guard that Jefferson currently sucks IMHO. TL is unarguably a great player but his attacking skills/abilities makes up more of his greatness than his abilities of assisting teammates to score. before a transfer bid was tossed for Jefferson there should have been a insightful discussion with great scrutiny about Jefferson's fitness, but the only thing on the minds Spurs officials last summer was simply that the team would be upgraded drastically only if a big name was landed. Spurs took action fast enough and managed to wrap up Jefferson before any other team could ever set a hand in...

ostentatiously the Jefferson deal was a bad one for Spurs. Spurs are definitely better with Jefferson now than with the craps traded for him, but it's still a bad trade because those expiring craps could have used more wisely and landed someone fitting Spurs in SA, who subsequently could have made Spurs better than they currently are. None of the three vets was useful as a player at the moment they got traded, but their contracts are quite invaluable to the teams seeking financial relief.

[mookie2001]

Not familiar with the original poster but his ways of interneting lead to believe he's ESL


Not bad esl but esl none the less

[dastrey]

spurs didn't really give anything up for jefferson. but yeah, he sucks pretty hard right now.

All they gave up was tons of cap space for the best free agent class of all time.

[temujin]

A retired Bruce Bowen >>> Jefferson.

Right now Jefferson would make maybe $100K on a mediocre Euroleague team.

He would get no playing time in a Obradovic, Ivanovic, Gershon, Messina or Scariolo's team.
That's for sure.

Which brings up the relevant issue.

Why is he playing at all?
Whose fault it that?

[montgod]

Who would you rather have right now Oberto and Thomas or Jefferson?

Right now, I would definitely rather have Oberto and Thomas with their expiring deals than be stuck with RJ. They would have been very good pieces to trade for a cap starved team or to free up space for the end of the year.

Saying that, I don't fault management since it was a no-brainer trade. I just wonder how RJ and everyone would produce outside a Pop system. Seems like FAs tend to have a hard time meshing into his system to the point that they aren't the same player they were before they came.

[mookie2001]

Shooting better than Manu

[ezau]

All they gave up was tons of cap space for the best free agent class of all time.

True, they didn't want to dip their hands in the free agent class next year so they did it this year. Sure, there is no assurance that they will be landing any big name next year but with their acquisition of Jefferson means they already lost in the sweepstakes even before it starts

[ezau]

Not familiar with the original poster but his ways of interneting lead to believe he's ESL


Not bad esl but esl none the less

it's nonetheless

[Muser]

LOL @ people slamming the FO for the trade, there wasn't a spurs fan on this board who wasn't happy with it at the time.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

All they gave up was tons of cap space for the best free agent class of all time.

You don't believe LeBron, Wade or Bosh would come to SA, though, do you? At best we would have had a shot at the 2nd group of players, however, with the impending lockout and big changes in the CBA in 2011, including a potential hard cap being introduced, I don't think it'd be too smart of any team to tie their hands with a long term expensive contract to a player who is not a superstar.

I think a lot of the available money in the summer will not be used, which could lead a lot of good players to sign 1-year deals and wait for the new CBA.I don't count the superstars, of course, they'll get their money, but it'd have been unlikely that any of them would have come to SA even if there was cap space available.

[Muser]

At least the Spurs get a big fat expiring next year.

[Allanon]

At least the Spurs get a big fat expiring next year.

This is a nice silver lining out of it all.

With the uncertainty and talks of hard caps teams will look to be dumping contracts. SA isn't exactly a huge FA destination so the Spurs can cash in on a big name this way...y'all may be thanking RJ when it's all said and done. :lol

[Ice009]

This is a nice silver lining out of it all.

With the uncertainty and talks of hard caps teams will look to be dumping contracts. SA isn't exactly a huge FA destination so the Spurs can cash in on a big name this way...y'all may be thanking RJ when it's all said and done. :lol

LOL thanks. I never thought of it that way at all.

So is the possible lockout supposed to be after this season? or is it after next season when the CBA has to be renewed?

[Allanon]

LOL thanks. I never thought of it that way at all.

So is the possible lockout supposed to be after this season? or is it after next season when the CBA has to be renewed?

The possible lockout would be at the start of the 2011-12 season. So it would be after the next season (2010-2011).

This is why RJ's contract may actually be worth more than usual for financially strapped teams facing a possible lockout and a hard salary cap with lux tax penalties.

It's also the same time draft guys like Marc Gasol, OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose come up for new contracts.

[Ice009]

Ahh ok got ya. Cheers Allanon. I thought the possible lock out was after this season.

Hmm someone call up Chris Bosh and tell him to force a trade to the Spurs in the offseason. Get him to tell the Raptors he wants to come back to Texas and they can have the very valuable expiring contract of RJ ;).

[timaios]

LOL @ people slamming the FO for the trade, there wasn't a spurs fan on this board who wasn't happy with it at the time.

Ok, but it's not our job, we are fans... What's their excuse ?

[Muser]

Ok, but it's not our job, we are fans... What's their excuse ?

Okay, lets say you are RC Buford. In the offseason if the Bucks offered you RJ for Bruce/Fab/KT would you accept?

[timaios]

Okay, lets say you are RC Buford. In the offseason if the Bucks offered you RJ for Bruce/Fab/KT would you accept?

Yes... that's why i am a fan and not the GM of the Spurs !

But as the GM of the Spurs i would have never traded Scola !!!!!!!!!!! NEVER !

[SpurNation]

Richard Jefferson, the worst player for the money this team has ever traded for.


Fixed.

I don't think they had in mind the value RJ might have after the 2010-2011 season. I think they thought they had a piece to the puzzle that would help them win now.

What value would it be to Tim Duncan to have to wait a couple of years to get something worth the money they are spending now? The window of opportunity isn't that big anymore with regards to winning another championship with Tim on the team.

That money could have been used to get 2 players that could have contributed more positively than what RJ contibutes on his own.

But that's hindsight. To answer a question posed earlier...RJ for old beat up scrubs was pretty much a no brainer. Unfortunately the team didn't realize RJ was a no brainer either.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Are you sure about that?

Sincerely,

Luis Scola

Luis,

Was that a trade, or a charitable IRS donation made by Mr. Holt?

[Indazone]

Are you sure about that?

Sincerely,

Luis Scola


:lmao

[4down]

Richard Jefferson, the worst player for the money this team has ever traded for.


Fixed.

I don't think they had in mind the value RJ might have after the 2010-2011 season. I think they thought they had a piece to the puzzle that would help them win now.

What value would it be to Tim Duncan to have to wait a couple of years to get something worth the money they are spending now? The window of opportunity isn't that big anymore with regards to winning another championship with Tim on the team.

That money could have been used to get 2 players that could have contributed more positively than what RJ contibutes on his own.

But that's hindsight. To answer a question posed earlier...RJ for old beat up scrubs was pretty much a no brainer. Unfortunately the team didn't realize RJ was a no brainer either.

Quality post, SpurNation


The Luis Scola mentionings are appropriate in this thread. RJ's the worst power forward in Spurs history. I know that's only when the Spurs go to smallball, but out of position is out of position. Don't ask an apple to taste like steak.

Not to make excuses, but it's tough enough to adapt to a new system without having to play out of position most of the time. (and its tougher to go from small to big and vice versa than from 1 guard or wing position to the other)

RJ was supposed to just be the icing on the cake. Right now, the team is just not gelling the way it should.

Call me overly patient, but while I want more out of this team, I am not in panic mode until march is over and the Spurs are in the 8th seed or worse.

[SenorSpur]

RJ's poor defensive rotations and lackluster play has reminded me that players, who've played for several years on bad teams have a tendency to develop terrible habits. I zoned in on him speciifically last night, and his effort and reactions, on the defensive end, are just atrocious. Sure, he can come up with a spectacular block or dunk every now and again, but overall he's just bad.

On the offensive end, it would help if he played with had a pass-first PG, but this isn't all TP's fault. RJ gets into the periods where he just floats and watches. He gets very passive, even to the point where he will not make the effort to even rebound!

That said, Pop and RC probably thought they could "coach him up" because he is a willing and coachable player. However, he's just too far gone to be saved. If this isn't the biggest mistake of Pop's regime, I would certainly say it's the most costly failure.

[Big P]

I've been saying this for over a month...RJ does not fit in..he is content to be a jump shooter & that is not why we traded for him...he does not slash to the basket anymore, no more easy dunks or foul shots, when he does get fouled, he can't make a FT, he is a screen door on defense...if we cant trade him this season, for sure in the summer.

[EmmanuelTimothyDavid]

At the way he is playing right now ....I think so too.... Holt is paying him so much.....All I can do is pray for him so that he can be the player the team wanted him to be.... His shot selection and defense is awful.

Or is the problem that we have is the position he is playing. Why not make him a SG in our team. That might open up more opportunities for him to score more inside the paint.

[da_suns_fan]

The possible lockout would be at the start of the 2011-12 season. So it would be after the next season (2010-2011).

This is why RJ's contract may actually be worth more than usual for financially strapped teams facing a possible lockout and a hard salary cap with lux tax penalties.

It's also the same time draft guys like Marc Gasol, OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose come up for new contracts.

:lol

Those guys will be extended LONG before their rookie contracts come up.

I dont know who else is part of the FA class in two years but you can count Rose OUT.

[Whisky Dog]

Not a horrible trade in terms of players given back, but a horrible trade in regards to money spent and cap space.

[Russ]

I'm beginning to think that Jefferson's lack of passion is actually draining energy from the team.

[Allanon]

:lol

Those guys will be extended LONG before their rookie contracts come up.

I dont know who else is part of the FA class in two years but you can count Rose OUT.

OJ and Gasol are going to get max contracts in their pay scale. And you can add in Zach Randolph and Mike Conley who are also expiring.

Grizzlies will have 4 of 5 starters in a contract situation and Heisley's been careful to keep his team under the salary cap to be attractive to buyers.

Memphis is right at the cap now with those guys in their rookie contracts, they can't stay under cap if they re-sign all of them.

Memphis has been notoriously cheap and is still up for sale. I don't think it's far-fetched if they let one of them go.

[Chillen]

I think the Scola trade could have cost the Spurs a championship. If you see how the Rockets played against the Lakers in last years playoffs, Scola caused problems for the Lakers bigs. Imagine a lineup now with Duncan, Scola, McDyess to matchup against Bynum, Artest, Gasol. That was the worst trade the Spurs have ever done, they gave up spare parts to acquire Jefferson.

[Bartleby]

I think the Scola trade could have cost the Spurs a championship. If you see how the Rockets played against the Lakers in last years playoffs, Scola caused problems for the Lakers bigs. Imagine a lineup now with Duncan, Scola, McDyess to matchup against Bynum, Artest, Gasol. That was the worst trade the Spurs have ever done, they gave up spare parts to acquire Jefferson.

What's really frustrating is that they traded away Scola to save money and broke out the checkbook when they decided to get Jefferson.

:depressed

[Indazone]

c'mon you guys have a big front line of Duncan, McDyess....and Bonner!!!! Yay!

[easy7]

c'mon you guys have a big front line of Duncan, McDyess....and Bonner!!!! Yay!

I am sure the Lakers are shitting in their pants... :lmao

[Allanon]

What's really frustrating is that they traded away Scola to save money and broke out the checkbook when they decided to get Jefferson.

:depressed

It's worse when you figure in the salaries of the guys they paid for instead of just keeping Scola's $3 million salary.

Scola - 15ppg, 9 rbds

Bonner - 7ppg, 4 rbds
KT - 4ppg, 5 rbds
Dice - 6ppg, 5 rbds
Oberto - 3ppg, 3 rbds
Mahinmi - 4ppg, 3 rbds
Ratliff - 2ppg 2 rbds

And that's not counting the additional wear and tear on Duncan and missed Playoff opportunities. I've always felt the Scola trade for $3 million derailed the Spurs championship run.

[Pauleta14]

The possible lockout would be at the start of the 2011-12 season. So it would be after the next season (2010-2011).

This is why RJ's contract may actually be worth more than usual for financially strapped teams facing a possible lockout and a hard salary cap with lux tax penalties.

It's also the same time draft guys like Marc Gasol, OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose come up for new contracts.


... and Tony Parker!

[Pauleta14]

Okay, lets say you are RC Buford. In the offseason if the Bucks offered you RJ for Bruce/Fab/KT would you accept?

Honnestly, it's hard to refuse this player, but that contract???
That's the only question I had (I wadn't alone)...

He is maybe the most overpaid (not injured) player in the league!

29M$/2years... :wow

[Chieflion]

Honnestly, it's hard to refuse this player, but that contract???
That's the only question I had (I wadn't alone)...

He is maybe the most overpaid (not injured) player in the league!

29M$/2years... :wow
Elton Brand does not cosign on this.

[sandman]

I think the Scola trade could have cost the Spurs a championship. If you see how the Rockets played against the Lakers in last years playoffs, Scola caused problems for the Lakers bigs. Imagine a lineup now with Duncan, Scola, McDyess to matchup against Bynum, Artest, Gasol. That was the worst trade the Spurs have ever done, they gave up spare parts to acquire Jefferson.

Scola never played a single minute for the Spurs. What they lost was potential, because we will never know how he would have meshed with this team. I don't care what type of numbers he is putting up on a mediocre Rockets team with no true #1 or #2 player on the roster. It doesn't automatically translate into the same production for THIS team.

Have you not watched the NBA long enough to see how highly sought after role players don't produce at the same level when they move to a different team? Let's not even talk about how his rebounding, assist and FG% numbers have continued to decrease throughout the season, even though his minutes are increasing.

[elbamba]

You people are crazy. Jefferson is doing exactly what he is asked to do, play completely out of position. You want to blame someone, blame Pop who decided twice to go small last night and it did nothing but boost the confidence of Portland. Then when we brought back in the lineup to compete, they were cold and we did nothing but let the pg stand around and dribble before taking a contested jumpshot.

That game last night was not on Jefferson. People who think he can play PF are idiots. The only thing worse than watching Jefferson play PF is watching Finley do it. Ian or Ratcliff could have made a difference at the defensive end last night, but Pop is too pridefull to make the change. I blame the coach and not the players, the players are good enough to win, the coach right now is not good enough to know where his players need to play.

[Pauleta14]

Elton Brand does not cosign on this.

I'm not sure about Brand, he was REALLY impressive in LA...
I think that if you combine a new city/team/system/players...AND an early BAD injury, it's hard to know why he doesn't produce as expected..

I stand on RJ is leading overpaid players...:lol

[Chieflion]

I'm not sure about Brand, he was REALLY impressive in LA...
I think that if you combine a new city/team/system/players...AND an early BAD injury, it's hard to know why he doesn't produce as expected..

I stand on RJ is leading overpaid players...:lol
Gilbert "Quick trigger" Arenas also reports for duty.

[z0sa]

They don't even attempt to feed RJ the ball like he's some kind of offensive option. They never run their offense through him, and they rarely continue feeding him when he does hit. RJ must make more out of his touches but the truth is, the Spurs have not put him in a role where he is comfortable and it shows. The Spurs are also a lot less multifaceted because of his inability to work his game within the offense, and like many players a slump also affects his defensive intensity.

If the Spurs just fed him the ball more often, especially during these past 40 games when we were playing @ home against a majority of scrub teams, he'd be a lot more in the groove right now. Doesn't look like Pop and Tony will ever be using him to even half of his potential.

[Chieflion]

They don't even attempt to feed RJ the ball like he's some kind of offensive option. They never run their offense through him, and they rarely continue feeding him when he does hit. RJ must make more out of his touches but the truth is, the Spurs have not put him in a role where he is comfortable and it shows. The Spurs are also a lot less multifaceted because of his inability to work his game within the offense, and like many players a slump also affects his defensive intensity.

If the Spurs just fed him the ball more often, especially during these past 40 games when we were playing @ home against a majority of scrub teams, he'd be a lot more in the groove right now. Doesn't look like Pop and Tony will ever be using him to even half of his potential.
I don't whether it is just Pop or Tony. I do know he is not getting enough touches for a volume scorer. There was this one play where Jefferson passed the ball back to George Hill to "reset" the offense. I was like, "Oh come on, so George Hill is higher than Richard on the food chain? You gotta be kidding me."

[Pauleta14]

You people are crazy. Jefferson is doing exactly what he is asked to do, play completely out of position. You want to blame someone, blame Pop who decided twice to go small last night and it did nothing but boost the confidence of Portland. Then when we brought back in the lineup to compete, they were cold and we did nothing but let the pg stand around and dribble before taking a contested jumpshot.

That game last night was not on Jefferson. People who think he can play PF are idiots. The only thing worse than watching Jefferson play PF is watching Finley do it. Ian or Ratcliff could have made a difference at the defensive end last night, but Pop is too pridefull to make the change. I blame the coach and not the players, the players are good enough to win, the coach right now is not good enough to know where his players need to play.


I agree on that point, he depends on what he is being asked to do, but...

The thing that is REALLY not excusable, is all the "little things" he is supposed to bring, set screens, rebound, steal...

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSATILE PLAYER !!

The fact that he doesn't produce enough offensively, is disapointing (understandable?), but the rest is INEXCUSABLE for a guy with THAT kind of contract!!!!

[Chieflion]

I agree on that point, he depends on what he is being asked to do, but...

The thing that is REALLY not excusable, is all the "little things" he is supposed to bring, set screens, rebound, steal...

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSATILE PLAYER !!

The fact that he doesn't produce enough offensively, is disapointing (understandable?), but the rest is INEXCUSABLE for a guy with THAT kind of contract!!!!
He was brought in as an extra scorer. Nothing more. I wonder why all of you think he is going to be a do-it all man.

[Chomag]

RJ is another player that has all the tools but just lacks the mentality it takes to be a winner. IF you don't think he is soft minded then you are crazy. I'm not so sure about his desire either to pull from deep within himself to win.

He kind of just goes out there and goes into his motions and that about it.

[temujin]

Scola never played a single minute for the Spurs. What they lost was potential, because we will never know how he would have meshed with this team. I don't care what type of numbers he is putting up on a mediocre Rockets team with no true #1 or #2 player on the roster. It doesn't automatically translate into the same production for THIS team.

Have you not watched the NBA long enough to see how highly sought after role players don't produce at the same level when they move to a different team? Let's not even talk about how his rebounding, assist and FG% numbers have continued to decrease throughout the season, even though his minutes are increasing.


In fact what Spurs got in exchange for Scola was that great NBA player of Vasilis Spanoulis....

The Scola trade was the beginning of the end of the Spurs as the whole world has come to know them.

The Jefferson acquisition is anothe milestone.

And the walking of Ginobili will be the nail on the coffin.

[Bruno]

RJ has been a very good NBA players for years and he is still in his prime. He has no reason no to be good too with Spurs. I haven't given up on him. He just need to find his place with Spurs and it takes way more time than expected.

And :lmao @ the people bitching about Scrubla. This guy is in Bonner's league when it comes to playing defense or being clutch. It would have been a nice player to have for $3M per year but he wouldn't have made a significant difference.

[Pauleta14]

He was brought in as an extra scorer. Nothing more. I wonder why all of you think he is going to be a do-it all man.

That's the way Pop introduced him!!!!

Explaining how smart he was, what a great sens of humor he has... (who care?:lol)

He even CLEARLY said that it wasn't for his offensive production more than for his overall game that they liked him...
He talked about turning him into the defensive minded player he once was in NJ...

Try to find the quotes!! I remember clearly...

[Chieflion]

That's the way Pop introduced him!!!!

Explaining how smart he was, what a great sens of humor he has... (who care?:lol)

He even CLEARLY said that it wasn't for his offensive production more than for his overall game that they liked him...
He talked about turning him into the defensive minded player he once was in NJ...

Try to find the quotes!! I remember clearly...
All that turned out be lies when I found some footage of him playing with the Bucks and some opinions from Bucks fans.

[ffadicted]

RJ has been a very good NBA players for years and he is still in his prime. He has no reason no to be good too with Spurs. I haven't given up on him. He just need to find his place with Spurs and it takes way more time than expected.

This says it all really. I was as excited as anybody, and still am waiting, but goddamn it it's time for him to show up and take it upon himself to perform

[Pauleta14]

RJ has been a very good NBA players for years and he is still in his prime. He has no reason no to be good too with Spurs. I haven't given up on him. He just need to find his place with Spurs and it takes way more time than expected.
.



I really admire your optimism...
Put his skills aside, what about his (winning?) mentality?
Even when Manu sucks, you can see he is fighting, trying things...

When RJ doesn't produces, he disappears the same way Tony did in his early years when he had a off game..

[Pauleta14]

All that turned out be lies when I found some footage of him playing with the Bucks and some opinions from Bucks fans.

:toast

So we agree...

You were saying you didn't understand why we all expect those things from him!
For an objective reason..

[rascal]

Yes... that's why i am a fan and not the GM of the Spurs !

But as the GM of the Spurs i would have never traded Scola !!!!!!!!!!! NEVER !


Then that makes the Scola trade a worse trade, even the fans knew that was a bad trade.

[rascal]

In fact what Spurs got in exchange for Scola was that great NBA player of Vasilis Spanoulis....

The Scola trade was the beginning of the end of the Spurs as the whole world has come to know them.

The Jefferson acquisition is anothe milestone.

And the walking of Ginobili will be the nail on the coffin.


No over paying Manu to a big contract will be the final nail in the coffin. Manu is on the rapid decline now.

[Bruno]

Put his skills aside, what about his (winning?) mentality?


RJ has spend a lot of years with a winning team and AFAIK, he hasn't been known to disapear for the playoffs.

It's also possible that he has some troubles with his back injury. Back injuries are tricky one. If it's the case, let's hope he will be in a better shape for the end of the season.

[sandman]

In fact what Spurs got in exchange for Scola was that great NBA player of Vasilis Spanoulis....

The Scola trade was the beginning of the end of the Spurs as the whole world has come to know them.

The Jefferson acquisition is anothe milestone.

And the walking of Ginobili will be the nail on the coffin.

Assuming that I completely missed your sarcasm...

The Spurs gave up a 2002 second round draft pick in 2007 for the Greek T-Mac that would never play for them.

Granted, Scola proved to be a valuable role player over the last few years, but at the time, 5 years after he was drafted in the second round, the Spurs gave up nothing other than potential.

They didn't give up the franchise player, or a high draft pick, either past or future. The impact this trade had on the ability of the franchise to overcome the bad decision of the trade was absolutely zero. They did not handicap themselves in any way, financially or draft-wise, by trading Scola to Houston.

They didn't bet the farm on Scola and then trade him away. He was a second round draft pick that never played for the team. They were not making personnel moves based on Scola potentially playing for them. He was a personnel move based on getting solid role players to support the Big 3, who incidentally, somehow managed to win three titles after they drafted Scola.

I swear, some Spurs fans put the Scola trade immediately after getting DRob and Duncan in the lottery as the moments of fate for the franchise.

[Pauleta14]

RJ has spend a lot of years with a winning team and AFAIK, he hasn't been known to disapear for the playoffs.

It's also possible that he has some troubles with his back injury. Back injuries are tricky one. If it's the case, let's hope he will be in a better shape for the end of the season.

Didn't know about his injury (didn't recover?)...

+ as I just said in another thread ("Spurs really close to a deal?"), we are often mistaken about the real skills/level of a player, until he plays for our team and you can see him for 82 games...

I assume, RJ fits better in a team that runs like the Nets did (or like the Blazers), and that he depends on the flow of the game and relies a lot on his teammates... I don't know...

But I wasn't sarcastic when I said that I admire your optimism, I trying to find way to be myself, but it's REALLY hard...:lol

I don't see what could change and suddenly makes him a perfect fit for the team...

[neboat]

RJ is horrible. I thought we were getting a nice player...but he is one of the most useless players on the team. He's like a poor man's corey maggette.

[alchemist]

... and Tony Parker!
29 year old Parker with a history of bad ankles....:depressed

[murpjf88]

Late in the regular season, he's mediocre at best. At first I thought he's going to make some improvements, but look at him now. He's content to cash in all the money that he gets from Holt and that's it. The sad part is, everybody thought that he's going to be the player that would put us over the hump.


No, not everybody. I was opposed of him from day 1.

[Pauleta14]

29 year old Parker with a history of bad ankles....:depressed


Yep..

And in the french media, he was talking about aiming a BIG contract he "deserves" in 2011... (when talking about maybe not playing for the NT next summer and rest his body)

[elbamba]

I agree on that point, he depends on what he is being asked to do, but...

The thing that is REALLY not excusable, is all the "little things" he is supposed to bring, set screens, rebound, steal...

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSATILE PLAYER !!

The fact that he doesn't produce enough offensively, is disapointing (understandable?), but the rest is INEXCUSABLE for a guy with THAT kind of contract!!!!

Being a versatile player does not mean playing out of position. We kid ourselves when we see Pop put guys like finley and Jefferson on PF like Aldridge. He will eat them alive every time.

Spurs make the same mistake with Hill. They think that because he has a good game here or there he can defend Dirk or Odom.

Pop has left his old days of coaching like Brown behind him and has moved into a Nelson type coach. The problem is that he is not being honest with himself. Either you play like Nelson and give up and defense and set offensive plays and run small ball. Or you coach like Brown and slow the game down with set plays and a traditional center, PF. You cannot mix the two styles.

[alchemist]

Yep..

And in the french media, he was talking about aiming a BIG contract he "deserves" in 2011... (when talking about maybe not playing for the NT next summer and rest his body)
:bang how convenient of him

[z0sa]

RJ is horrible. I thought we were getting a nice player...but he is one of the most useless players on the team. He's like a poor man's corey maggette.

Maggette gets the ball in his comfort zone much more than RJ does. I've seen nothing but good things when we post RJ up, for example, but we do it so rarely it gets lost in the wash with the other bad things he does (or doesn't do).

[bless1187]

I really think RJ still has the talent; but he's just a really bad fit most specifically with TP. In fact anyone who we bring in who cannot play well without the ball is going to struggle on this team playing with TP either it be A. Iguodola, C. Butler, R. Gay, etc. People are saying there are not many point guard in this league with great vision excluding C. Paul, D. Williams, S. Nash, R. Rondo, etc; but none of the other PG in this league are as ball dominant as TP; for example G. Hill doesn't have great visions of the court but when he plays everyone at least gets there touches; whereas, in TP he would dribble the ball until the lane is closed than passing it to the open man maybe in RJ to take the outside shot; therefore limiting him strictly to a spot up shooter. I think we had another player before RJ that also really struggled fitting in with H. Turkuglo, he struggled a lot while he was here since he was restricted to just a spot up shooter, than look at him after he left the Spurs when he played with the Magics. I think if RJ would be a bad teammate "D. Gooden", he could just break plays and look for his own, his number would be a lot better, but he's really giving a lot of effort in being the perfect teammate meanwhile its really just bringing down his game.

[ElNono]

My main complaints with Richard are his passivity (almost to a fault for stretches) and his low basketball smarts. Under the spectacular reverse dunks and the glitter, there's a pretty dumb basketball player. Silly fouls, terrible help defender, and pretty useless if he's not the centerpiece of a play. If you add that his intensity declines exponentially when he's not involved in the offense, then you have a recipe for disaster. I thought it was a good gamble to take in the offseason. But now that I've got to see his game first hand, I'm fairly disappointed. If he at least would play with a little more energy constantly, he would mask a lot of those shortcomings.

[neboat]

Maggette gets the ball in his comfort zone much more than RJ does. I've seen nothing but good things when we post RJ up, for example, but we do it so rarely it gets lost in the wash with the other bad things he does (or doesn't do).

I agree that RJ does not get enough opportunities... but I don't think RJ has a sweet spot in the half court set. He can post up a bit when given the right match up I guess. The only positive I see is that he is a good finisher when given the space to elevate.

[z0sa]

I agree that RJ does not get enough opportunities... but I don't think RJ has a sweet spot in the half court set. He can post up a bit when given the right match up I guess. The only positive I see is that he is a good finisher when given the space to elevate.

he's not very fast laterally, and I think he gets burned easily because of that.. but I think we should iso him against bigs ANY time we play small, and pretty often. He runs right past his man anytime we go small and get him the ball in good position.

This guy is 29 years old, and scored 20 PPG last season... he's not entirely to blame for his inconsistency. He just doesn't get fed the ball enough to expect an obviously rhythm guy like him to get in a consistent offensive groove. As much as that casts a shadow on Pop and Tony, it's true.

[SpurNation]

My main complaints with Richard are his passivity (almost to a fault for stretches) and his low basketball smarts. Under the spectacular reverse dunks and the glitter, there's a pretty dumb basketball player. Silly fouls, terrible help defender, and pretty useless if he's not the centerpiece of a play. If you add that his intensity declines exponentially when he's not involved in the offense, then you have a recipe for disaster. I thought it was a good gamble to take in the offseason. But now that I've got to see his game first hand, I'm fairly disappointed. If he at least would play with a little more energy constantly, he would mask a lot of those shortcomings.

This is the sad truth.

[bless1187]

i think TP is really lucky he's playing in this Spurs organization where its winning, tight lipped, and rosters full of good people; for instance if he was playing on a losing team team such as the Knicks, Nets, etc... he's gonna get it just as bad by the media or your own player for being a shoot-first PG "S. Marbury"; i have had NBA league pass for a long time, and have watched numerous players play, and when it comes to shoot-first when it comes to a PG, TP has got to be ranked neared the top, even worst than S. Francis or S. Marbury, but one thing going for TP is that even though he may be a worst passer than S. Francis or S. Marbury but his scoring is a lot more efficient than those two.

[neboat]

he's not very fast laterally, and I think he gets burned easily because of that.. but I think we should iso him against bigs ANY time we play small, and pretty often. He runs right past his man anytime we go small and get him the ball in good position.

This guy is 29 years old, and scored 20 PPG last season... he's not entirely to blame for his inconsistency. He just doesn't get fed the ball enough to expect an obviously rhythm guy like him to get in a consistent offensive groove. As much as that casts a shadow on Pop and Tony, it's true.

Maybe I'm just too disappointed in RJ and just being biased, but I still blame RJ himself for his lack of production due to his limited skill set and low BBIQ. Another way to look at this is: even a flawed Stephen Jackson back in '03 was able to fit in and produce more than RJ.

[spurtech09]

are you kidding me?

[slayermin]

Jefferson was the starting small forward for a Nets team that went to the Finals two years in a row. Granted, the Eastern Conference was weak but they got there.

Also, his line against the '04 Pistons in game three and five in the Eastern Conf. semifinals were impressive. He helped the Nets turn that series around and nearly steal it in six. I'm not saying he didn't have his problems against that vaunted Piston defense. But he gave them everything they could handle.

Game 3: 30pts 8rebs 5assts
Game 5: 31pts 11rebs 4assts
Game 6: 23pts 11rebs 5assts

The guy is a proven winner. He has as much playoff experience as any of our older players. It's short-sighted of Spurs fans to give up on him already. We can't rebuild and waste anymore time with TD's looming retirement. It's up to Pop and, especially TP to figure it out and get him going.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jefferson isn't the same player he was in the 1st half of his career though, that's the problem..

He lost his defensive athleticism, which has altered his game a lot..he also spent some years on really bad teams where all he had to do was to score and he was responsible for a huge part of the offense of a team..

He can't contribute defensively anymore, he has a lot of bad habits that he picked up when he became a strictly offensive player, and he obviously doesn't fit here..nothing will change this IMO..

[ezau]

RJ's poor defensive rotations and lackluster play has reminded me that players, who've played for several years on bad teams have a tendency to develop terrible habits. I zoned in on him speciifically last night, and his effort and reactions, on the defensive end, are just atrocious. Sure, he can come up with a spectacular block or dunk every now and again, but overall he's just bad.

On the offensive end, it would help if he played with had a pass-first PG, but this isn't all TP's fault. RJ gets into the periods where he just floats and watches. He gets very passive, even to the point where he will not make the effort to even rebound!

That said, Pop and RC probably thought they could "coach him up" because he is a willing and coachable player. However, he's just too far gone to be saved. If this isn't the biggest mistake of Pop's regime, I would certainly say it's the most costly failure.

Agree with this. RJ simply turned atrocious as he spent a lot of time playing for bad teams. Ever since he wore a Spurs uniform, I usually don't see the effort that he needs to do on the defensive end. On offense, he looks lost and most of the time, the ball doesn't go through him. He lacks the effort and the desire to just be a contributing factor. I don't mind him not scoring but his willingness is simply not there

[ezau]

I think the Scola trade could have cost the Spurs a championship. If you see how the Rockets played against the Lakers in last years playoffs, Scola caused problems for the Lakers bigs. Imagine a lineup now with Duncan, Scola, McDyess to matchup against Bynum, Artest, Gasol. That was the worst trade the Spurs have ever done, they gave up spare parts to acquire Jefferson.

If they decided to keep Scola, there's no need to trade for Dick. Yes I agree, the Scola trade cost the Spurs a championship. Imagine Scola playing alongside Ginobili and there's no question that they're going to be a two-man wreaking crew

[MannyIsGod]

Not even close.

Spurs fans are stupid.

[024]

while i completely agree jefferson is playing at 60% right now and sucks on defense, he's just a scapegoat for the spurs' larger woes. ginobili and parker's injuries have destroyed the spurs and the role players such as bonner, rmj, and bogans are even more useless than jefferson.

[raspsa]

Who knows? Maybe he's doing his Robert Horry impersonation and will turn into a monster once the playoffs start .. pls.pls.pls.pls.pls.

[ezau]

i think TP is really lucky he's playing in this Spurs organization where its winning, tight lipped, and rosters full of good people; for instance if he was playing on a losing team team such as the Knicks, Nets, etc... he's gonna get it just as bad by the media or your own player for being a shoot-first PG "S. Marbury"; i have had NBA league pass for a long time, and have watched numerous players play, and when it comes to shoot-first when it comes to a PG, TP has got to be ranked neared the top, even worst than S. Francis or S. Marbury, but one thing going for TP is that even though he may be a worst passer than S. Francis or S. Marbury but his scoring is a lot more efficient than those two.

Sadly, this is the truth. Once TD retires and if TP decides to play for another team, he'll never win another championship ever. The guy is a one-trick pony and if he doesn't play in his comfort zone, he's useless

[Sigz]

isn't he gay?

[Mark in Austin]

Are you sure about that?

Sincerely,

Luis Scola


Charles Smith and Ron Mercer would take issue too.

[peskypesky]

It's mainly due to the lack of a pass-first guard that Jefferson currently sucks IMHO. TP is unarguably a great player but his attacking skills/abilities makes up more of his greatness than his abilities of assisting teammates to score.

says it all....

[HarlemHeat37]

Jefferson has more of his points off assists than he did last year..he's also shooting less jumpers this year than he did last year, which hurts the "spot up shooter" argument..

Jefferson's offense isn't really that bad..of course it could be better, but it's the fact that he does NOTHING else that is troublesome for the Spurs..

[JustinJDW]

We aren't doing so good, so everyone blames the new guy. This is a common human reaction.

[VivaPopovich]

to be fair to RJ, he's forced to play within this system that's taking away from his ability to just drive in the paint

dont think so much pop, let the boys be boys

[Pauleta14]

Sadly, this is the truth. Once TD retires and if TP decides to play for another team, he'll never win another championship ever. The guy is a one-trick pony and if he doesn't play in his comfort zone, he's useless

:lol Some fans are so stupid...

So if we wanna know anything about the future, we just have to ask you, right?
You have a selective memory and your analyse is based on cliché...
You are talking about comfort zone?
Tony has played with so manu diff players that he HAD to adapt his game to his teamates...
Have you seen last year games when he played without either Timmy and/or Manu???

There is a gap between saying he is not a classic PG and saying he is a "one-trick pony" that have won't win anymore championship...

[mystargtr34]

Holy shit i had no idea Luis Scola had become so over rated by Spursfans.

[temujin]

Assuming that I completely missed your sarcasm...

The Spurs gave up a 2002 second round draft pick in 2007 for the Greek T-Mac that would never play for them.

Granted, Scola proved to be a valuable role player over the last few years, but at the time, 5 years after he was drafted in the second round, the Spurs gave up nothing other than potential.

They didn't give up the franchise player, or a high draft pick, either past or future. The impact this trade had on the ability of the franchise to overcome the bad decision of the trade was absolutely zero. They did not handicap themselves in any way, financially or draft-wise, by trading Scola to Houston.

They didn't bet the farm on Scola and then trade him away. He was a second round draft pick that never played for the team. They were not making personnel moves based on Scola potentially playing for them. He was a personnel move based on getting solid role players to support the Big 3, who incidentally, somehow managed to win three titles after they drafted Scola.

I swear, some Spurs fans put the Scola trade immediately after getting DRob and Duncan in the lottery as the moments of fate for the franchise.

Your reasoning:
Scola was a second round draft pick.
Second round draft picks are worth little.
HENCE
Spurs gave up little in the Scola trade.

-Too bad that a second round pick has considerably helped Spurs to win those championships you mentioned.
-Too bad that another second draft pick is having a great season with the Spurs.
-Too bad that Scola had proven to be able to beat the hell out of NBA stars worth >100 millions (2002).
-Too bad Scola's team, with the significant support of Scola, had ridiculized the Popovich/Duncan-led team in 2004.
-Too bad that Scola was the Olympic final MVP. The game of a lifetime, not Manu, Scola was MVP.
-Too bad that Scola was constantly among the top 5 bigs in Euroleague. A tournement that had delivered a relevant piece of the Spurs machine.
-Too bad that, at the very worst, Scola was way way better than Fabricio Oberto, signed with a three years 10.5 Millions contract in 2007.

So Spus traded MORE than potential.

I wrote all his in 2007 and predicted exactly the type of career Scola would be having. If anything, he would have been even BETTER with the Spurs.

I can now predict the type of career Splitter will have, for example.

See, the problem with small market teams is they are NOT allowed many mistakes with the personnel, if they want to stay at the top.
Spurs FO was almost spotless (only Butler comes to mind), before the Scola trade.

The Jefferson acquisition is another bad mistake.

In general, players are not the only pieces of the machine that get older, and slower.

[The Truth #6]

Didn't we trade the pick that could have netted Josh Howard to make salary room to sign Jason Kidd? If that's right, then I'd put that trade up there. If we have Howard we have someone to guard Dirk and we have a better chance of getting thru Dallas and winning a title in 06.

[AussieFanKurt]

we should trade for Kobe and Lebron!!

[exstatic]

Late in the regular season, he's mediocre at best. At first I thought he's going to make some improvements, but look at him now. He's content to cash in all the money that he gets from Holt and that's it. The sad part is, everybody thought that he's going to be the player that would put us over the hump.

You haven't been a fan very long, have you.

Exhibit 1: Charles Smith I - the big man with one knee and a contract that ran FOREVER.

Exhibit 2: Brad Lohaus

[SenorSpur]

Didn't we trade the pick that could have netted Josh Howard to make salary room to sign Jason Kidd? If that's right, then I'd put that trade up there. If we have Howard we have someone to guard Dirk and we have a better chance of getting thru Dallas and winning a title in 06.

Actually, the Spurs did keep their 28th pick that year, 2003. With Josh Howard on the board, they instead drafted Leandro Barbosa and immediately traded him to Phoenix in a prearranged deal. Recall that the Spurs had no interest in spending money on a 1st round pick because the FO had their noses up Jason Kidd's ass, and as such wanted to preserve cap space.

The negative impact of this decision was compounded by the fact that the Spurs had just won the NBA title a month or so earlier, Parker was starting to come into his own, and Stephen Jackson was set to leave in free agency and the FO knew they limited in what they could offer.

I've said this before and I will always contend that the combined decisions (passing over Howard and pursuing J-Kidd) was the single dumbest decision this FO made during the Duncan era. It clearly had long-running impacts that affected the franchise for years.

If we have Howard we have someone to guard Dirk and we have a better chance of getting thru Dallas and winning a title in 06.

I totally agree with you. Howard WAS a difference-maker in that '06 series and the Spurs came within a bone-headed, Manu foul in Game 7, of winning. Put Howard on the Spurs and not only would it have weakened the Mavs, all of a sudden there would've been no need to import Finley and the Spurs probably win another 2 titles, with a swingman rotation of Bowen, Howard and Manu from '03-'09.

[exstatic]

Who in their right mind thinks Pop even PLAYS a dope smoking, trash talking Howard? :lmao His first "birthday party" would have had him on the trading block.

[duncan228]

How did offseason moves pan out? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/britt_robson/02/04/hits.misses.trades/index.html)
Britt Robson
SI.com

Richard Jefferson, San Antonio Spurs

HOW ACQUIRED: Traded from Milwaukee for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas

CONTRACT: $29.2 million over this season and next

PROGRESS: It's been an unsatisfying campaign for Jefferson, whose skills have yet to mesh with the Spurs' Big Three of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Even accounting for the four fewer minutes per game he is playing (31.3) compared to his career average (35.5), his field-goal and free-throw attempts are way down -- bad news for a natural slasher. His "usage percentage (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jefferi01.html)" (how often he is statistically involved in the team's possessions) is at a career low, and his points, rebounds and assists have declined from month to month (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jefferi01.html), even as Parker and Ginobili continue to battle minor injuries.

VERDICT: Jefferson was seen by many as the shrewdest pickup of the offseason, the insurance policy for the injury-prone Ginobili and a quality performer who has always flourished while being his team's second or third option. Instead, he has been disappointing, and almost the opposite of a catalyst. Being deferential hasn't helped Jefferson or his teammates. Maybe it's time for a little more ego and signature drives to the basket.

[portnoy1]

Maybe it's time for a little more ego and signature drives to the basket.Maybe its time to play some defense and stop letting rookies(blair)and sophomores(Hill) outplay you. Or better yet maybe its time to go somewhere else.

[SenorSpur]

Maybe its time to play some defense and stop letting rookies(blair)and sophomores(Hill) outplay you. Or better yet maybe its time to go somewhere else.

:clap

I know he's been gone a while and it was probably next to impossible to pull off, but Stephen Jackson would've been a FAR better fit on this team that RJ. Jack's attitude, moxie and swagger, not to mention his balling abilities, would've been a welcomed re-addition to the squad.

[The Truth #6]

Who in their right mind thinks Pop even PLAYS a dope smoking, trash talking Howard? :lmao His first "birthday party" would have had him on the trading block.

The majority of the league smokes weed and talks trash. That in itself doesn't mean anything. I'm not familiar with the "birthday party incident". I'm guessing it involves women? If so, San Antonio would have probably bored him to tears, the women are generally unattractive, and so it's hard to really say what kind of trouble he would have gotten himself into in SA versus the Dallas lifestyle.

[SCdac]

Britt Robinson

PROGRESS: It's been an unsatisfying campaign for Jefferson, whose skills have yet to mesh with the Spurs' Big Three of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Even accounting for the four fewer minutes per game he is playing (31.3) compared to his career average (35.5), his field-goal and free-throw attempts are way down -- bad news for a natural slasher. His "usage percentage (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jefferi01.html)" (how often he is statistically involved in the team's possessions) is at a career low, and his points, rebounds and assists have declined from month to month (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jefferi01.html), even as Parker and Ginobili continue to battle minor injuries.


*gulp*

Wow... that is bad... particularly the usage rating and drop in FT attempts.

It's gotten bad to the point where it's not unreasonable to look at Pop, his assistant coaches, and point guards, and seriously ask how Richard Jefferson is not huge piece in our playbook... and is actually REGRESSING from earlier in the season. Yes, it's on Richard Jefferson too, but the guy is getting the "you don't even have more skills than a mid-tier role player" treatment...

It's like buying a brand new car that really wanted for 3 years AND needed, but after a few uncomfortable drives shelving it in the garage for the more comfortable car that was barely getting us around and will probably break down later on.

With the way RJ's season has played out, it wouldn't surprise me if Jefferson is wearing another jersey come march... Maybe even in some deal where we don't get equal value back.

[exstatic]

The majority of the league smokes weed and talks trash. That in itself doesn't mean anything. I'm not familiar with the "birthday party incident". I'm guessing it involves women? If so, San Antonio would have probably bored him to tears, the women are generally unattractive, and so it's hard to really say what kind of trouble he would have gotten himself into in SA versus the Dallas lifestyle.

The majority of the league couldn't play for Pop, so that's a non-starter as an argument.


Josh Howard hasn't jeopardized his NBA career with one bad playoff series. But considering his questionable behavior, Mavericks officials might be wondering whether Howard is someone they want representing their franchise.

When asked Wednesday if there was anything he'd like to do over again, Howard said, "Hmmm, some things. But overall, you only live once. You've got to keep your head up and stay positive."

Howard practically disappeared during the New Orleans series. The 6-5 forward, who averaged 20 points during the regular season, managed just 12.6 against the Hornets and shot a dismal 29.2 percent from the floor.

After a loss in Game 4 on Sunday, Howard passed out fliers in the locker room inviting teammates to celebrate his 28th birthday at a Dallas nightclub, a source said. The Mavs were down, 3-1, in the best-of-7 series.

Only a few players attended, the source said. But Avery Johnson confronted the players about the party the next day and canceled practice. The players decided to practice without the coaching staff.

The birthday party situation came two days after Howard went on a local radio show and discussed his off-season marijuana use. It was the third time in the last year he has talked publicly about using the illegal substance.

if you don't understand that these things make him someone who will NEVER be a Spur, then you don't understand the Spurs organization at all.

[The Truth #6]

Exstatic, drafting Howard was the right move at the time. Duncan vouched for him at the time. That he developed with little guidance with the Mavs and later showed poor judgement does not prove how he would have been with the Spurs. Would he be a problem? Maybe, maybe not.

You presume a lot about people. Good luck with that.

[twincam]

Late in the regular season, he's mediocre at best. At first I thought he's going to make some improvements, but look at him now. He's content to cash in all the money that he gets from Holt and that's it. The sad part is, everybody thought that he's going to be the player that would put us over the hump.

Agreed, Jefferson is a "bust". Bad deal...bad deal.....

That man can elevate and dunk...but it won't win games....

[pjjrfan]

Actually, the Spurs did keep their 28th pick that year, 2003. With Josh Howard on the board, they instead drafted Leandro Barbosa and immediately traded him to Phoenix in a prearranged deal. Recall that the Spurs had no interest in spending money on a 1st round pick because the FO had their noses up Jason Kidd's ass, and as such wanted to preserve cap space.

The negative impact of this decision was compounded by the fact that the Spurs had just won the NBA title a month or so earlier, Parker was starting to come into his own, and Stephen Jackson was set to leave in free agency and the FO knew they limited in what they could offer.

I've said this before and I will always contend that the combined decisions (passing over Howard and pursuing J-Kidd) was the single dumbest decision this FO made during the Duncan era. It clearly had long-running impacts that affected the franchise for years.


I totally agree with you. Howard WAS a difference-maker in that '06 series and the Spurs came within a bone-headed, Manu foul in Game 7, of winning. Put Howard on the Spurs and not only would it have weakened the Mavs, all of a sudden there would've been no need to import Finley and the Spurs probably win another 2 titles, with a swingman rotation of Bowen, Howard and Manu from '03-'09.

I don't buy into Howard but I know we should have found a way to keep Sjax. And as much as I hate Jefferson's performance up to this point. This was not a bad trade, not knowing RJ's basketball IQ was so low, at least IMO, I can see the reasoning behind it. And he hasn't been that bad he just hasn't been a difference maker, and most of us fans expected him to be a difference maker, especially for 14 mill a year and straddling the franchise with the luxury tax.