Found out one of my friends is......

[Ginobilly]

possibly gay.

Okay, just to make a long story short, me and three other friends had a party at a friends house. My friend let us borrowed his house while he worked overnight, he couldn't attend because he is nurse and works long hours. So we're in the middle of an intense poker game and all of a sudden my friend who arrives late brought some bud with him. We roll the shit and everything but then find out nobody had a lighter. So then me and my other friend go searching for one in his room. As we're going through his stuff we all of a sudden we find nurse boi's gay porno stash:wow.(I know we fucked up going through his stuff but we were drunk as hell) That sucked the life out of my friend and I. We know this cat since middle school and then it turns out he's possibly gay. What should I do? Should we confront him about it, or just wait till he comes out officially?

[timvp]

He's a nurse ... and you were surprised?

[atxrocker]

Your friend being a male nurse didn't ever raise a red flag? You've known this guy since middle school and never got a clue that he smokes pole? On the reverse side, he does you the favor of letting you use his house to party and you repay by going through all his personal shit? This sounds like a troll job but if it's not then confronting him is definitely the way to go. Tell him that you don't associate with queers, especially ones who have fooled you for such a long time and that if he ever takes another cock to the mouth this friendship is over!

[tlongII]

Just how close of a friend is he?

[Ginobilly]

He's a nurse ... and you were surprised?

They were lots of signs of signs throughout the years but we ignored them and didn't think much of them. He does have that Richard Jefferson girly kind of voice though.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you think he is going to have sex with you?

If not, why do you care?

[Ginobilly]

Just how close of a friend is he?

Not really that close. We hang out maybe a few times a year at bars and restaurants. I told my girl about it, and she tells me,"I told you so". I refuse to believe it! Maybe he was just holding it for a friend or something? We did find a twilight DVD though his stuff.:depressed

[Ginobilly]

Your friend being a male nurse didn't ever raise a red flag? You've known this guy since middle school and never got a clue that he smokes pole? On the reverse side, he does you the favor of letting you use his house to party and you repay by going through all his personal shit? This sounds like a troll job but if it's not then confronting him is definitely the way to go. Tell him that you don't associate with queers, especially ones who have fooled you for such a long time and that if he ever takes another cock to the mouth this friendship is over!

I guess my gaydar sucks.

I have nothing against gay people, but I guess he has his reasons for keeping his sexual preferences secret. San Antonio is not a gay friendly city like an Austin or San Francisco.

[BlackSwordsMan]

who gives a shit? its not like you just found out hes an alien

[Bukefal]

possibly gay.

Okay, just to make a long story short, me and three other friends had a party at a friends house. My friend let us borrowed his house while he worked overnight, he couldn't attend because he is nurse and works long hours. So we're in the middle of an intense poker game and all of a sudden my friend who arrives late brought some bud with him. We roll the shit and everything but then find out nobody had a lighter. So then me and my other friend go searching for one in his room. As we're going through his stuff we all of a sudden we find nurse boi's gay porno stash:wow.(I know we fucked up going through his stuff but we were drunk as hell) That sucked the life out of my friend and I. We know this cat since middle school and then it turns out he's possibly gay. What should I do? Should we confront him about it, or just wait till he comes out officially?

Nothing, what can you do? If he is a good friend, Maybe he'll tell you himself one day. Shitty situation though.


They were lots of signs of signs throughout the years but we ignored them and didn't think much of them. He does have that Richard Jefferson girly kind of voice though.

:lol

[atxrocker]

The ultimatum. Give him the ultimatum, man. It's you or the cock.

[Blake]

possibly gay.

That sucked the life out of my friend and I.

but you have nothing against the ghey.

[ChumpDumper]

Good advice from a gay bird.I'm not gay.

















Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

WGAF what other people do in the bedroom, as long as it's legal and consensual?

[td4mvp21]

Oh no, it's the end of the world.

[mavs>spurs2]

I hate faggots. Always have, always will. They're just gross to me. I had a close friend who told me he was bi once, the only reason we're still cool is because he has never acted on those urges, he actually hates that part of himself and has a GF in fact.

[TheProfessor]

Well if you're thinking of waiting until he comes out, I assume you're OK with it. It will likely be weirder to wait until then, since you might be uncomfortable having that information and not telling him. Guess it depends on how you think he'd react.

[Bender]

He's a nurse ... and you were surprised?
:lol
that's the first thing I thought too...

[lil_penny]

is your friends name dick jefferson?

[Blake]

I hate faggots. Always have, always will. They're just gross to me.

I bet girls are gross to you too.

[IronMexican]

The only way it would have been more obvious is if he had told you he was a cosmotologist.

[Capt Bringdown]

This thread tells us a lot more about you than it does about your friend.

If he's your friend, you've probably known him for a while. If he was attracted to you, it's likely that he would have made a pass at you before. Yet this didn't happen, and you weren't aware of his preferences before you chose to violate his trust by invading his privacy.
So it's crystal clear that he regards you as a friend only.

Now what do you really want? It's not clear you want a friend, for violating someone's trust and privacy is not an act of friendship.
It seems to me like you want something else...

[Mark in Austin]

possibly gay.

Should we confront him about it, or just wait till he comes out officially?

Unless he was cheating on you, there's nothing to confront. If you're really his friend and it doesn't bother you, tell him that. If it does bother you, that's probably part of the reason why he has kept it from you. Respect his privacy.

[mookie2001]

Did you call the express news or kens 5?

This shit is big

[leemajors]

Did you call the express news or kens 5?

This shit is big

:lol

[Rogue]

son you're a little bit excessively prissy IMHO. It seems like you're somewhat concerned about your friend being gay who possibly even regards you as his targeted sexual partner, but in reality you're being the pedant overreacting to such an accidental discovery IMHO, unless you would like to consider gay anyone who has broke back mountain stashed in his computer. come the friendship my suggestion is, don't ask don't tell... nothing happened on the serious level son.

[Scola]

He's a nurse ... and you were surprised? :lol

Definitely sounds gay. No normal straight dude keeps a stash of gay porn.
I would just keep quiet about it and not say anything unless he brings it up.

[Mister Sinister]

Wgaf?

[sabar]

You snooped through his stuff and think confronting is even a possibility?

Its like catching your parents having fun in their bedroom and confronting them about it. They're going to find out you messed with their stuff. Also, you shouldn't confront them unless you're after a part of the action. Why else would you want to know?

[I. Hustle]

You were going through his underwear drawer but he's gay? Why not just go to the kitchen?

[Stringer_Bell]

I wish I was a Sigmund Freud troll instead so I could tell you the truth with a little more credibility, but anyway...you're concerned because you're worried that next time you "hang out" you'll be the one trying to subconsciously suck him off. If you confront him with friends, there's less of a tendency for you to go down on him right then and there.

I think him hiding it helps his friends/family feel less awkward or burdened with mixed feelings about his sexuality. You're "shock" and "confusion" only reinforces his decision to keep it a secret, because you're not accepting that he could have butt sexed you on several occasions and chose not to. Just because you may have had girlfriends in the past doesn't make you heterosexual, lots of men have kids with women, get married, and are active in church...and still manage to be gay and do coke off of male strippers. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt! /freud-mode deactivated

[florige]

Not really that close. We hang out maybe a few times a year at bars and restaurants. I told my girl about it, and she tells me,"I told you so". I refuse to believe it! Maybe he was just holding it for a friend or something? We did find a twilight DVD though his stuff.:depressed

Notice how the op quickly defends his manhood by stating "my girl". Either this is a troll, or the OP is a confused faggot.....

[florige]

You were going through his underwear drawer but he's gay? Why not just go to the kitchen?

No because him and his other faggot buddy were drunk so that makes everything alright....

[I. Hustle]

No but him and his other faggot buddy were drunk so that made everything alright....

oh ok that makes sense. If beer makes them go through dudes underwear drawer I don't want to be around them when they are drinking liquor.

[CuckingFunt]

possibly gay.

Okay, just to make a long story short, me and three other friends had a party at a friends house. My friend let us borrowed his house while he worked overnight, he couldn't attend because he is nurse and works long hours. So we're in the middle of an intense poker game and all of a sudden my friend who arrives late brought some bud with him. We roll the shit and everything but then find out nobody had a lighter. So then me and my other friend go searching for one in his room. As we're going through his stuff we all of a sudden we find nurse boi's gay porno stash:wow.(I know we fucked up going through his stuff but we were drunk as hell) That sucked the life out of my friend and I. We know this cat since middle school and then it turns out he's possibly gay. What should I do? Should we confront him about it, or just wait till he comes out officially?

Sure hope your gay vaccinations are up to date. It's catchy as hell.

[CuckingFunt]

I hate faggots. Always have, always will.


sons what the fuck is smirnoff ice a malt liquor? i usually dont drink the sugary drinks but that shit was good

Yep. I think it's pretty clear what's going on here.




Maybe, when you're strong enough, you'll learn to love yourself.

[Jacob1983]

It's 2010. People can be homosexuals. If you are really his friend then you will accept his gayness and still be friends with him.

[Fat Bones]

Start a band, y'alld be huge.

[Whisky Dog]

StArt your next convo off with "So, I sucked this huge cock the other day..." and see where it goes from there.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its only a question of when he sexually fantazises abbout u orf have any pics of you or male friends with cum stains on it

[symple19]

I wish I was a Sigmund Freud troll instead so I could tell you the truth with a little more credibility, but anyway...you're concerned because you're worried that next time you "hang out" you'll be the one trying to subconsciously suck him off. If you confront him with friends, there's less of a tendency for you to go down on him right then and there.

I think him hiding it helps his friends/family feel less awkward or burdened with mixed feelings about his sexuality. You're "shock" and "confusion" only reinforces his decision to keep it a secret, because you're not accepting that he could have butt sexed you on several occasions and chose not to. Just because you may have had girlfriends in the past doesn't make you heterosexual, lots of men have kids with women, get married, and are active in church...and still manage to be gay and do coke off of male strippers. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt! /freud-mode deactivated

:lmao

[mrsmaalox]

You're "shock" and "confusion" only reinforces his decision to keep it a secret, because you're not accepting that he could have butt sexed you on several occasions and chose not to. Just because you may have had girlfriends in the past doesn't make you heterosexual, lots of men have kids with women, get married, and are active in church...and still manage to be gay and do coke off of male strippers. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt!

The painful part is probably the realization that his gay friend is just not that into him. Maybe he should have a makeover :tu

[Pero]

Personally if that happened to me it'd be a little weird but I wouldn't care that much as long as he didn't try to hit on me or something.

BTW, I don't get this Spurstalk obsession against gays. It's almost as if it's in the Spurstalk rulebook or something.
Probably there really is something to the subconscious (or conscious...) fear of being gay yourself and you're now trying to do everything possible to make sure and/or make it seem you're not gay.

[exstatic]

We did find a twilight DVD though his stuff.
If the "nurse" profession didn't tip it off, this sure should have.

[Capt Bringdown]

BTW, I don't get this Spurstalk obsession against gays. It's almost as if it's in the Spurstalk rulebook or something.


Because the owners think it's cute and cool:


He's a nurse ... and you were surprised?

Hahah haha haha, good one timvp. Damn you're funny.

[BlackSwordsMan]

have sex with him and if he likes it hes gay

[CosmicCowboy]

The guy lets you use his house to have a party while he works and you rifle through the personal stuff in his bedroom?

Damn, you SUCK!

He may be gay but you are a fucking asshole and don't deserve a friend like that.

[JamStone]

There's some funny stuff going on in this thread.

But yeah, big deal. Even if he is attracted to you, big deal. The only way it's an issue is if you're insecure in your own sexuality and think you actually might want to explore things yourself. Otherwise, it's his business, whether he keeps it secret or wants to come out. And, if you're really genuinely friends with him, it shouldn't really matter.

And, yeah, how did you not know already? If he's already working as a nurse, I'm guessing you guys are in the early to mid 20s age range. You probably should know by now or have a good idea that he is.

[CosmicCowboy]

Uhhhh guys...Nursing is a legitimate career choice for men and women and has nothing to do with being gay. Notice that macho man OP is "borrowing" the nurses house because he doesn't have a place of his own.

I thought all you youngsters were supposed to be "enlightened" and politically correct.

[mavs>spurs2]

Yup, CC is right there are lot's of straight male nurses. It pays good, a lot less schooling than becoming a doctor, and you still work in the hospitals where it's rumored that everyone sleeps with everyone. I bet there are at least a few hot female workers in any hospital.

[thispego]

Because the owners think it's cute and cool:



Hahah haha haha, good one timvp. Damn you're funny.

boo fuckin hoo, you queer or something?

[Fillmoe]

lol... gay thread

[ploto]

He may be gay but you are a fucking asshole...

Bingo!!

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Uhhhh guys...Nursing is a legitimate career choice for men and women and has nothing to do with being gay. Notice that macho man OP is "borrowing" the nurses house because he doesn't have a place of his own.

I thought all you youngsters were supposed to be "enlightened" and politically correct.


i have a friend that's husband has served two tours in iraq and refuses to let him be a nurse(something he actually wants to do) when he retires in a couple of years for that same reason. ha. instead she's fine with him being a cop. i want to slap her right in the face.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

and, yeah, OP. so what. he's gay. flip a coin and find another friend or get over it.

[Pero]

i have a friend that's husband has served two tours in iraq and refuses to let him be a nurse(something he actually wants to do) when he retires in a couple of years for that same reason. ha. instead she's fine with him being a cop. i want to slap her right in the face.

What? I don't get it. Is she afraid he'll run off with another guy or what? :lol

[SpursWoman]

The guy lets you use his house to have a party while he works and you rifle through the personal stuff in his bedroom?

Damn, you SUCK!

He may be gay but you are a fucking asshole and don't deserve a friend like that.


+1

Not cool.

[Mister Sinister]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/8/128706274682742119.jpg

[Viva Las Espuelas]

What? I don't get it. Is she afraid he'll run off with another guy or what? :lol

oh no. they white on rice about each other. it's just not manly enough a job for her husband to have. :rolleyes
he served two tours in iraq, for pete's sakes.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

maybe she's jealous of pete.

[Ginobilly]

Me and my best friend decided just to keep quiet about it. He's actually my best friends cousin, and he just worries his family might cut him off if they find out. I will still keep being his friend and support him in everything, but it will be awkward when we all hang out together again. What would David Robinson do in this situation?

[Spursfan092120]

Stupid...who gives a shit? Unless he puts a move on you, which he would have done a long time ago if he was interested in you, why do you care? If he's a real friend, it shouldn't fucking matter, unless he tries to go after your pole. Otherwise, stfu and leave it be.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm going to make my usual post in response to threads like this:

Who cares what other people are doing in the bedroom? As long as it is safe and consensual, WHO CARES?

[Trainwreck2100]

for the op most likely he wants to bang you

[Stringer_Bell]

Personally if that happened to me it'd be a little weird but I wouldn't care that much as long as he didn't try to hit on me or something.

BTW, I don't get this Spurstalk obsession against gays. It's almost as if it's in the Spurstalk rulebook or something.
Probably there really is something to the subconscious (or conscious...) fear of being gay yourself and you're now trying to do everything possible to make sure and/or make it seem you're not gay.

And what if he did hit on you, are you so afraid of your own sexual identity that you'd be "scared" or "confused" or maybe even "angry?" :wow

I don't think anyone's posted against gays, we've been bagging on the dude acting like it's a big deal that his nurse friend that watches twilight sucks dick. So we're giving him a hand, so to speak. :toast

[Pero]

oh no. they white on rice about each other.

What does that mean?



it's just not manly enough a job for her husband to have. :rolleyes
he served two tours in iraq, for pete's sakes.

Oh.. wow..


maybe she's jealous of pete.

:lol

[Pero]

And what if he did hit on you, are you so afraid of your own sexual identity that you'd be "scared" or "confused" or maybe even "angry?" :wow


Uh no. If someone you think you're just friends with starts hitting on you, things become weird if you don't have the same feelings.

[boutons_deux]

"WGAF what other people do in the bedroom"

In USA, millions of authoritarian, theocratic "Christian" supremacists and their Repug fellow-travellers give a big Bible-thumping fuck what people do in private.

These very same people scream how much they love THEIR freedom and how somebody is taking it away.

[Blake]

What would David Robinson do in this situation?

most likely he would invite him to church....

but chances are that 5-0 wouldnt be drunk and fumbling through his friends' stuff to begin with, so the question is moot except to a fool like you

[jdev82]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

[Pero]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

:lol

[Stringer_Bell]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

But without our beer and shotguns, we can't protect our families from the onslaught of gays taking over this country!

I think Lakaluva's point was that being a friend means not having secrets because friends are honest with each other. The OP seems to be more of an acquaintance of the gay nurse...which makes it even more shocking that he drunkenly searched his house.

[I. Hustle]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

Wait are you just talking about homophobes or are you calling all southerners half-wits?

[I. Hustle]

"WGAF what other people do in the bedroom"

In USA, millions of authoritarian, theocratic "Christian" supremacists and their Repug fellow-travellers give a big Bible-thumping fuck what people do in private.

These very same people scream how much they love THEIR freedom and how somebody is taking it away.

EVERYBODY says their freedom is being taken away.

[SpursStalker]

And?

[mrsmaalox]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

:depressed

[CubanMustGo]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

Generalize much? Amazing how you can characterize a whole state based on the posts of a few ignoramuses.

[boutons_deux]

"EVERYBODY says their freedom is being taken away"

I don't. And I've never heard any right-wing nutcase say exactly what freedoms they're losing, and esp not which freedom Magic Negro is taking away.

[I. Hustle]

"EVERYBODY says their freedom is being taken away"

I don't. And I've never heard any right-wing nutcase say exactly what freedoms they're losing, and esp not which freedom Magic Negro is taking away.

OK well every group says it. Every "right-wing nutcase" claims they are losing certain freedoms so do the GLBT groups so do the religious groups so do liberal groups and so on and so on.

Every group has this sense of entitlement for some reason.

[I. Hustle]

Generalize much? Amazing how you can characterize a whole state based on the posts of a few ignoramuses.

Eff that, they characterized the south. Not just Texas.

[CubanMustGo]

Eff that, they characterized the south. Not just Texas.


i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far

[I. Hustle]

the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

[mavs>spurs2]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

Not approving of homosexuality isn't a crime or a sign that you're dumb or ignorant. In fact, realizing that homosexuality is gross and standing up for my opinions makes me intelligent and shows integrity. Only a homo would care what other people think about homos. As long as I'm not out lighting faggots on fire and beating them in the streets then it should be none of your concern. It's well within my rights to despise whatever I choose to despise.

[Blake]

Not approving of homosexuality isn't a crime or a sign that you're dumb or ignorant. In fact, realizing that homosexuality is gross and standing up for my opinions makes me intelligent and shows integrity. Only a homo would care what other people think about homos. As long as I'm not out lighting faggots on fire and beating them in the streets then it should be none of your concern. It's well within my rights to despise whatever I choose to despise.

this post is full of win.

and by win I mean dumb and ignorant.

[mavs>spurs2]

Blake, faggots fail, whether you look at it from a religious standpoint or from Darwin's theory of natural selection. The bible says gayness is wrong, and it also goes against natural selection. If our ancestors were all gay then we wouldn't be here today. Nothing about being gay is really right now matter how you look at it. When I see 2 queers together, it just makes my stomach squeamish and goes against everything that's ingrained into my DNA.

[rjv]

could have been worse. you could have found out he posts on spurstalk....

[doobs]

So what did you do after you watched the porn?

[thispego]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

sounds like this little faggot got his feelings hurt :lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I think the real shock would have been that he owned actual physical porn. It's so nice to see young people with respect for tradition instead of relying on the internet for still one more thing.

[Blake]

Blake, faggots fail, whether you look at it from a religious standpoint or from Darwin's theory of natural selection. The bible says gayness is wrong, and it also goes against natural selection. If our ancestors were all gay then we wouldn't be here today. Nothing about being gay is really right now matter how you look at it. When I see 2 queers together, it just makes my stomach squeamish and goes against everything that's ingrained into my DNA.

there's seemingly thousands upon thousands of homosexuality threads on the internets.

arguments against the gay fail every time.

[I. Hustle]

there's seemingly thousands upon thousands of homosexuality threads on the internets.

arguments against the gay fail every time.

Aside from the way he is expressing it why can't he be against homosexuality?

[jdev82]

Generalize much? Amazing how you can characterize a whole state based on the posts of a few ignoramuses.

a few? i said 7/8ths and i meant it. read this thread again and youll see waht im talking about :bang

[jdev82]

sounds like this little faggot got his feelings hurt :lol


i fucked your mom

[jdev82]

Not approving of homosexuality isn't a crime or a sign that you're dumb or ignorant. In fact, realizing that homosexuality is gross and standing up for my opinions makes me intelligent and shows integrity. Only a homo would care what other people think about homos. As long as I'm not out lighting faggots on fire and beating them in the streets then it should be none of your concern. It's well within my rights to despise whatever I choose to despise.

then it is within mine to deplore your hate speech and hope that you fucking die. my original post was not a question or a provocation or invitation to debate, but a statement that most of you are retards. i dont want to talk to hillbillies. i dont care what you think.

[jdev82]

Blake, faggots fail, whether you look at it from a religious standpoint or from Darwin's theory of natural selection. The bible says gayness is wrong, and it also goes against natural selection. If our ancestors were all gay then we wouldn't be here today. Nothing about being gay is really right now matter how you look at it. When I see 2 queers together, it just makes my stomach squeamish and goes against everything that's ingrained into my DNA.

where does the bible say homosexuality is wrong? leviticus 18 22? have you ever read the bible? i have, and i have looked at those well quoted passages in the old testament that seem to condemn homosexuality in the original hebrew, and they say nothing of the sort. 18 22s most sensical interpretation would be you cannot have sex with a man in the same place you have sex with a woman.

[CubanMustGo]

a few? i said 7/8ths and i meant it. read this thread again and youll see waht im talking about :bang

7/8ths of the posters on this thread? 10 people to represent a state? Again, I ask,

GENERALIZE MUCH?

Fucking tool.

[mavs>spurs2]

then it is within mine to deplore your hate speech and hope that you fucking die. my original post was not a question or a provocation or invitation to debate, but a statement that most of you are retards. i dont want to talk to hillbillies. i dont care what you think.

I'm not a hillbilly, I'm a fucking college student with around a genius level iq. You want me to die because I don't approve of homosexuality? Just face it, you're a closet queer.

[mavs>spurs2]

where does the bible say homosexuality is wrong? leviticus 18 22? have you ever read the bible? i have, and i have looked at those well quoted passages in the old testament that seem to condemn homosexuality in the original hebrew, and they say nothing of the sort. 18 22s most sensical interpretation would be you cannot have sex with a man in the same place you have sex with a woman.

It says that a man shall not lie with another man as he does a woman.

[jdev82]

I'm not a hillbilly, I'm a fucking college student with around a genius level iq. You want me to die because I don't approve of homosexuality? Just face it, you're a closet queer.

yeah bro, you for sure sound like you have a genius iq

[jdev82]

It says that a man shall not lie with another man as he does a woman.

thats the english. perhaps you didnt understand when i said hebrew. not all the words in foreign ancient languages correspond to modern english. i wish there were a monosyllabic equivelent of that last sentence, maybe something in all grunts, but, alas, there is not.

[The Franchise]

wow i thought there was a homophobic atmosphere in milwaukee.
about 7/8ths of the posters in this thread are just disgusting, dispicable excuses for human beings. lakaluva, i hope your family dies. ginobilly, you are an idiot and a terrible friend. the rest of you, most of you at least, i knew texas was a state filled with intolerant knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing rednecks, but i didnt know it had gone this far. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do us all a favor and remove the beer and shotgun from your hands and pick up a fucking book once in a while. you fucking southerners. inbred half-wits. die in a fire, all of you homophobes.

You must be gay. :lol

[mavs>spurs2]

yeah bro, you for sure sound like you have a genius iq

:lol And you sound sooooo intelligent telling people to die for disagreeing with you.

My iq is in the 140's, and I hate faggots. These are both true statements. I'm sorry if you were under the impression that only the dumb and ignorant disagree with your lifestyle.

[mavs>spurs2]

You must be gay. :lol

:clap

[Blake]

Aside from the way he is expressing it why can't he be against homosexuality?

what's a good reason to be against it?

[Blake]

My iq is in the 140's, and I hate faggots.

you could be the most ignorant near-genius on this board.

[v2freak]

In Genesis, there is speculation that one of Noah's sons had sex with him while Noah was passed out, drunk after the flood. As a result, Noah cursed this son and his grandson. You can take that for what it is.

Based on the evidence, it seems pretty certain that your friend is gay, but that's not necessarily bad. My college roommate is gay and sometimes he lets his sexual urges take over, but he has never once hit on me or exposed me to gay porn. I would just not bring it up, to be honest.

[Blake]

In Genesis, there is speculation that one of Noah's sons had sex with him while Noah was passed out, drunk after the flood. As a result, Noah cursed this son and his grandson. You can take that for what it is.

where did that come from? :lol

I take that as rape. No wonder Noah was pissed.

[v2freak]

Check this out, Blake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

It's weird though, that's for sure. To Ginobilly, I also want to say that if your friend is a good friend, then all should be good. I am pretty good friends with my roommate and living with a gay is entirely different from just hanging out with one.

[z0sa]

I thought Noah's son only saw him naked. But that's obviously not deduced from the original text

[JamStone]

Lol well this thread took an interesting but not unexpected turn...

Personally, I think people are entitled to their opinions whether I agree with them or not. I don't have a problem with people who are gay. I don't care either way. It doesn't affect me. I certainly don't hate them. And, I do thinking that wishing death on people because of their opinions is pretty extreme itself, even if those opinions are hateful.

As for the Bible arguments that are going on here, I think people try to find reason or explanations in religion when religion really just confuses things even more. The Bible is pretty inconsistent if not at times completely contradictory. There are plenty of passages that suggest that homosexuality is wrong.

However, social ideals on what is right and wrong evolve, and it's the same with homosexuality. The perception of homosexuality has changed. In the Old Testament, homosexuality is considered an abomination. But so are things like shaving, getting tattoos, eating pork or shellfish, eating meat with dairy foods. So, back then, eat a cheeseburger and go to hell.

Traditions, social customs and ideals, morality and value systems change over time. Sure you can find passages in the Bible that say homosexuality is wrong or a sin or an abomination. You can also go to the Bible and read messages of loving your neighbor and not judging other people. I really just shake my head when people try to make a Bible argument when it comes to being gay. The Bible is extraordinarily inconsistent about things.

Especially if you're Christian, the primary message in the New Testament was about loving your neighbor. That includes your gay neighbors.

[I. Hustle]

what's a good reason to be against it?

Because he doesn't have to be for it. Why does everyone have to conform to your way of thinking? A good reason for him isn't necessarily a good reason to you. No matter what his reason is you are going to shoot it down.
People like you complain about religious zealots trying to convert everyone but you are doing the same by telling people they are stupid for not thinking like you. Personally I think racism is wrong BUT those people have every right to think the way they do.

[Blake]

Because he doesn't have to be for it. Why does everyone have to conform to your way of thinking? A good reason for him isn't necessarily a good reason to you. No matter what his reason is you are going to shoot it down.

Nobody has to be 100% gung ho for it, but if someone gets on here and talks about their hatred of it, I'm just curious as to what their reasoning is.

Being "gross" might be a good reason for 5th graders to hate the gays, but other than that I haven't really seen any other reason from you or anyone else for the hatred.


People like you complain about religious zealots trying to convert everyone but you are doing the same by telling people they are stupid for not thinking like you. Personally I think racism is wrong BUT those people have every right to think the way they do.

I have the same right to think they are ignorant for hating the gay without just cause.

Indifference would be an acceptable enough position in our society. Hatred, no.

[Blake]

I really just shake my head when people try to make a Bible argument when it comes to being gay. The Bible is extraordinarily inconsistent about things.


so much so that it caused a huge rift in the Episcopalean church

[I. Hustle]

Nobody has to be 100% gung ho for it, but if someone gets on here and talks about their hatred of it, I'm just curious as to what their reasoning is.

Being "gross" might be a good reason for 5th graders to hate the gays, but other than that I haven't really seen any other reason from you or anyone else for the hatred.

Right but if they say it's a biblical belief then you say the bible is wrong. If they say it is not natural you say it's been going on for thousands of years. Sure the dude is wrong in the way he is putting down others but so are the people who call others idiots just because they don't share the same beliefs.

It's funny how people who are against homosexuality are always labeled as gay bashers or that they hate gay people. I am against it but work everyday with gay and lesbian people. I don't agree with what they do and at the same time I am not spitting in their faces and cussing telling them they are wrong. The ones that I have worked with for a long time know my stance but we still work together in a professional manner.


I have the same right to think they are ignorant for hating the gay without just cause.

Indifference would be an acceptable enough position in our society. Hatred, no.

You have every right to think that people who are against homosexuality are ignorant. That is your belief and you are entitled to it.

[Blake]

Right but if they say it's a biblical belief then you say the bible is wrong. If they say it is not natural you say it's been going on for thousands of years. Sure the dude is wrong in the way he is putting down others but so are the people who call others idiots just because they don't share the same beliefs.

I never say someone's belief in the Bible is wrong. If they want to say that their religion states homosexuality is wrong, therefore they think it's wrong too, then super for them they have a decent enough reason to think it's wrong.

It's better than "it's gross"



It's funny how people who are against homosexuality are always labeled as gay bashers or that they hate gay people. I am against it but work everyday with gay and lesbian people. I don't agree with what they do and at the same time I am not spitting in their faces and cussing telling them they are wrong. The ones that I have worked with for a long time know my stance but we still work together in a professional manner.

why are you against it? Is it against your biblical beliefs?


You have every right to think that people who are against homosexuality are ignorant. That is your belief and you are entitled to it.

thanks, I thought for a minute you were against me having that right.

[JamStone]

It's funny how people who are against homosexuality are always labeled as gay bashers or that they hate gay people. I am against it but work everyday with gay and lesbian people. I don't agree with what they do and at the same time I am not spitting in their faces and cussing telling them they are wrong. The ones that I have worked with for a long time know my stance but we still work together in a professional manner.

I'm just curious. Are you cool with the gay and lesbian people you work with. I mean, do you joke around with them, do you go on lunch break with some of them? Have you gone to the bar or restaurant and shared drinks with them? Would you? Not that you're right or wrong either way. I'm just curious.

See, to me, it sounds like you're merely being tolerant of them. It seems like you feel like it's perfectly fine that you are professional with them, perhaps even courteous, yet it's as if you still judge them.

For me, I'm not gay. But, I don't feel like being gay is right or wrong. It's about the individual person, and if someone is gay, that's their business and I don't think it's wrong for them. I've worked with a few gay people and I've had two gay friends in my adult life. Went out with them, hung out with them, and I even went to a couple gay bars before.

I think there's a different between tolerance and understanding. I think someone like you who can be professional and civil with gay people is obviously better than someone who is just outright hateful. However, I do believe people who are merely tolerant are still narrow-minded to a degree. That's just my own personal opinion.

I view it like the perception of black people in the 1960-1980s. For example, say a guy owned a grocery store and hired black kids to bag groceries. He could say, "well, hey, I hired a couple ######s to work at my store. I think I'm pretty sensitive to racial issues." Would he be though?

[Oh, Gee!!]

flip a coin and find another friend or get over it.

exactly...stay his friend or stop being his friend. who cares, really? point is--this is a stupid thread.

[I. Hustle]

I'm just curious. Are you cool with the gay and lesbian people you work with. I mean, do you joke around with them, do you go on lunch break with some of them? Have you gone to the bar or restaurant and shared drinks with them? Would you? Not that you're right or wrong either way. I'm just curious.


I think there's a different between tolerance and understanding. I think someone like you who can be professional and civil with gay people is obviously better than someone who is just outright hateful. However, I do believe people who are merely tolerant are still narrow-minded to a degree. That's just my own personal opinion.

I view it like the perception of black people in the 1960-1980s. For example, say a guy owned a grocery store and hired black kids to bag groceries. He could say, "well, hey, I hired a couple ######s to work at my store. I think I'm pretty sensitive to racial issues." Would he be though?

You have a pretty decent argument. I do talk to them and joke with them occasionally. We have been out as a group where everyone is invited but not specifically to hang out with each other. Recently we had a dinner party at a restaurant where one of my coworkers and his partner sat at our table. I was cordial and shook hands and engaged in small talk. I am not rude or mean in any way to them. Plus I would never be caught going to a gay bar.

Personally I would not compare gay people with black people at all. One is race and one is a sexual preference. You can hide being gay but you can't hide being black.
When it comes to work I have been in a position where I hire employees and I always looked for the right person for the job regardless of sexual orientation. You can't always tell either way about a person. Sure there are the flamboyant ones but there are plenty of straight guys that look and sound feminine and plenty of straight women who are have that athletic look that can be mistaken for something else.

[Blake]

You have a pretty decent argument. I do talk to them and joke with them occasionally. We have been out as a group where everyone is invited but not specifically to hang out with each other. Recently we had a dinner party at a restaurant where one of my coworkers and his partner sat at our table. I was cordial and shook hands and engaged in small talk. I am not rude or mean in any way to them. Plus I would never be caught going to a gay bar.

so if there is a vote on gay marriage, do you vote for, against, or whogas?


Personally I would not compare gay people with black people at all. One is race and one is a sexual preference. You can hide being gay but you can't hide being black.

+1

[JamStone]

That's cool. I really was just curious.

There are definite differences between black people and gay people, but prejudice against either still draw parallels with each other. I drew a comparison to prejudice against either, not the differences in how gays can more easily hide their sexual orientation compared to a black person hiding his or her race.

But thanks for your honest response.


edit: Lol, and yeah, being a straight guy going to a gay bar can definitely be awkward. But, it's not as bad as you might think. First of all, it was a group of us, two of our gay friends, and then three of us guys were straight and we had like 4-5 straight girls. So, the straight guys, well we had some comfort with the straight girls. But, we didn't even need it. It was just hanging out, drinking, dancing, and having a good time. I think there's misconception that if a straight guy goes to a gay bar, he's going to be attacked and fondled by all these gay guys. In general, it's simply not true. First of all, most gay guys know if you're straight. And, secondly, I view gay men like girls I find ugly. Even if they want me, so what? Nothing is going to happen. Not with the gay guy and not with the ugly girl. I know that for a fact. So, there's nothing to be insecure about or worry about. But, yeah, it really isn't all that bad.

[I. Hustle]

so if there is a vote on gay marriage, do you vote for, against, or whogas?



Truthfully I wouldn't vote. I am against it completely but it is their life. If I vote against I am denying a persons right to believe what they want which I am even more against than homosexuality. If I vote for than it is saying that I agree with it which I do not. So I would refrain from voting.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

edit: Lol, and yeah, being a straight guy going to a gay bar can definitely be awkward. But, it's not as bad as you might think. First of all, it was a group of us, two of our gay friends, and then three of us guys were straight and we had like 4-5 straight girls. So, the straight guys, well we had some comfort with the straight girls. But, we didn't even need it. It was just hanging out, drinking, dancing, and having a good time. I think there's misconception that if a straight guy goes to a gay bar, he's going to be attacked and fondled by all these gay guys. In general, it's simply not true. First of all, most gay guys know if you're straight. And, secondly, I view gay men like girls I find ugly. Even if they want me, so what? Nothing is going to happen. Not with the gay guy and not with the ugly girl. I know that for a fact. So, there's nothing to be insecure about or worry about. But, yeah, it really isn't all that bad.


I went to a birthday party with this chick where I was the only straight dude there.

Was completely fine, until the dude sans shirt started to grope me.

I felt so used.

[I. Hustle]

edit: Lol, and yeah, being a straight guy going to a gay bar can definitely be awkward. But, it's not as bad as you might think. First of all, it was a group of us, two of our gay friends, and then three of us guys were straight and we had like 4-5 straight girls. So, the straight guys, well we had some comfort with the straight girls. But, we didn't even need it. It was just hanging out, drinking, dancing, and having a good time. I think there's misconception that if a straight guy goes to a gay bar, he's going to be attacked and fondled by all these gay guys. In general, it's simply not true. First of all, most gay guys know if you're straight. And, secondly, I view gay men like girls I find ugly. Even if they want me, so what? Nothing is going to happen. Not with the gay guy and not with the ugly girl. I know that for a fact. So, there's nothing to be insecure about or worry about. But, yeah, it really isn't all that bad.

Ok well I had an experience at a regular ol' bar (Fast Eddies) where this gay dude that was invited out with us would not leave me alone. He wasn't drunk because it was right after work and we had just got there and he kept inviting me to his house and trying to grab my arm. I know I know I would get called a homophobe if it was just that but he was asked by someone in the group how he stayed so young looking. He turned and looked at me and said "It's because I swallow". I WAS LIKE WTF?! He just kept saying how he liked manly men and not "pansies" like him. It was an awful experience and the few times I have been invited to go to a gay bar all I can think of is a bunch of (we'll call him) Jimmy's running around.
I know they are not all like that but he didn't help their cause. It's one thing being hit on and saying no and it's another thing when you aren't just left alone after saying there is no way.

[703 Spurz]

possibly gay.

Okay, just to make a long story short, me and three other friends had a party at a friends house. My friend let us borrowed his house while he worked overnight, he couldn't attend because he is nurse and works long hours. So we're in the middle of an intense poker game and all of a sudden my friend who arrives late brought some bud with him. We roll the shit and everything but then find out nobody had a lighter. So then me and my other friend go searching for one in his room. As we're going through his stuff we all of a sudden we find nurse boi's gay porno stash:wow.(I know we fucked up going through his stuff but we were drunk as hell) That sucked the life out of my friend and I. We know this cat since middle school and then it turns out he's possibly gay. What should I do? Should we confront him about it, or just wait till he comes out officially?

Unless he tries to invade your anus, what the hell is the big deal?

[rjv]

i think my iq dropped by 50 after reading this thread.

[mavs>spurs2]

i think my iq dropped by 50 after reading this thread.

Why do all homo apologists always have to scream "Nooooo!! That's ignorant!" Are you the Michael Jackson off Southpark?

I'd like one of you to show me how homosexuality makes any sense whatsoever from a religious standpoint, or an evolutionary one. The floor is yours

[JamStone]

At least for me, it's not about proving that homosexuality makes sense. It's about not hating and judging people who are gay. It's unnecessary to have so much conviction about it. You don't agree with people who are gay and it grosses you out. Fine. But it's unnecessary to hate them or judge them.

As far as a religious argument, why does there need to be one? If you believe that a union between man and woman, whether it's marriage or not, only makes sense from a religious or evolutionary point of view because they can procreate/reproduce, then would you be of the opinion that impotent men and sterile women shouldn't be allowed to have companionship or be allowed to marry?

Plus, gay couples can adopt, just like impotent men and sterile women. You can raise children without the biology of pregnancy... if that's what you're trying to infer by asking for religious and evolutionary logic to homosexuality.

Love isn't easily definable. It's an abstract. For me, it's not an issue of whether you agree or disagree with being gay. Rather, it's about your ability to respect those who are gay without judgment. The Bible does talk about loving your neighbor and talks about not judging your neighbor. And, from an evolutionary point of view, if gay people don't affect your ability to reproduce, why should you care either way about them?

[Blake]

Truthfully I wouldn't vote. I am against it completely but it is their life. If I vote against I am denying a persons right to believe what they want which I am even more against than homosexuality. If I vote for than it is saying that I agree with it which I do not. So I would refrain from voting.

so when it comes down it, you are indifferent.

[Blake]

Ok well I had an experience at a regular ol' bar (Fast Eddies) where this gay dude that was invited out with us would not leave me alone. He wasn't drunk because it was right after work and we had just got there and he kept inviting me to his house and trying to grab my arm. I know I know I would get called a homophobe if it was just that but he was asked by someone in the group how he stayed so young looking. He turned and looked at me and said "It's because I swallow". I WAS LIKE WTF?! He just kept saying how he liked manly men and not "pansies" like him. It was an awful experience and the few times I have been invited to go to a gay bar all I can think of is a bunch of (we'll call him) Jimmy's running around.
I know they are not all like that but he didn't help their cause. It's one thing being hit on and saying no and it's another thing when you aren't just left alone after saying there is no way.

gross!

it would have been so much better if it was a fugly chick telling you all of that stuff instead.

[leemajors]

gross!

it would have been so much better if it was a fugly chick telling you all of that stuff instead.

I don't see any other way to react to being told that than to just laugh your ass off.

[Blake]

Why do all homo apologists always have to scream "Nooooo!! That's ignorant!"

because it's ignorant. You don't catch on very quick for being a genius.


I'd like one of you to show me how homosexuality makes any sense whatsoever from a religious standpoint, or an evolutionary one. The floor is yours

it could easily take 10 pages to argue religious standpoints. Evolutionary standpoints are moot because even if it's a conscious decision they make, why do you care?

From a society standpoint there is no reason to hate the gay. There's nothing about the gays that bring our society down.

[CuckingFunt]

Ok well I had an experience at a regular ol' bar (Fast Eddies) where this gay dude that was invited out with us would not leave me alone. He wasn't drunk because it was right after work and we had just got there and he kept inviting me to his house and trying to grab my arm. I know I know I would get called a homophobe if it was just that but he was asked by someone in the group how he stayed so young looking. He turned and looked at me and said "It's because I swallow". I WAS LIKE WTF?! He just kept saying how he liked manly men and not "pansies" like him. It was an awful experience and the few times I have been invited to go to a gay bar all I can think of is a bunch of (we'll call him) Jimmy's running around.
I know they are not all like that but he didn't help their cause. It's one thing being hit on and saying no and it's another thing when you aren't just left alone after saying there is no way.

Welcome to our world. Girls have been dealing with that forever.

Maybe straight guys are bothered by hanging out with gay guys because it forces them to see how persistent and douchey they all can be.

[I. Hustle]

Welcome to our world. Girls have been dealing with that forever.

Maybe straight guys are bothered by hanging out with gay guys because it forces them to see how persistent and douchey they all can be.

Not all guys and I have met chicks that are just as bad

[mavs>spurs2]

Not all guys and I have met chicks that are just as bad

I've always found it sexy as hell in the rare instances where the female is actually the one hitting on me

[marini martini]

Being honest and having a good heart, should be all that matters, in a friendship, IMHO! :)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Blake, faggots fail, whether you look at it from a religious standpoint or from Darwin's theory of natural selection. The bible says gayness is wrong, and it also goes against natural selection. If our ancestors were all gay then we wouldn't be here today. Nothing about being gay is really right now matter how you look at it. When I see 2 queers together, it just makes my stomach squeamish and goes against everything that's ingrained into my DNA.

I'd like one of you to show me how homosexuality makes any sense whatsoever from a religious standpoint, or an evolutionary one. The floor is yours

Wrong. Homosexuality has flourished in numerous species (it is not confined to humans), as reported by peer-reviewed science, despite the fact that homosexuals don't procreate. What does that tell you? That sexual preference is probably a polygenic effect (that more than one gene is involved), and that it is NOT selected for or against by natural selection (it is a selectively neutral trait), otherwise it would have quickly left the gene pool.

Please don't abuse and misunderstand Darwin's theory, or genetics, for your own personal agendas. What are you studying? It sure isn't evolutionary biology or genetics.


I'm not a hillbilly, I'm a fucking college student with around a genius level iq. You want me to die because I don't approve of homosexuality? Just face it, you're a closet queer.

Nice, open-minded attitude to others' rights they teach you at that college. :rolleyes

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

At least for me, it's not about proving that homosexuality makes sense. It's about not hating and judging people who are gay. It's unnecessary to have so much conviction about it. You don't agree with people who are gay and it grosses you out. Fine. But it's unnecessary to hate them or judge them.

As far as a religious argument, why does there need to be one? If you believe that a union between man and woman, whether it's marriage or not, only makes sense from a religious or evolutionary point of view because they can procreate/reproduce, then would you be of the opinion that impotent men and sterile women shouldn't be allowed to have companionship or be allowed to marry?

Plus, gay couples can adopt, just like impotent men and sterile women. You can raise children without the biology of pregnancy... if that's what you're trying to infer by asking for religious and evolutionary logic to homosexuality.

Love isn't easily definable. It's an abstract. For me, it's not an issue of whether you agree or disagree with being gay. Rather, it's about your ability to respect those who are gay without judgment. The Bible does talk about loving your neighbor and talks about not judging your neighbor. And, from an evolutionary point of view, if gay people don't affect your ability to reproduce, why should you care either way about them?

Great post. :tu

You ought to carefully read it, mavs>spurs, especially the 1st and last paragraphs.

[florige]

I've always found it sexy as hell in the rare instances where the female is actually the one hitting on me

Are you sure they were actually females?

[Blake]

At least for me, it's not about proving that homosexuality makes sense. It's about not hating and judging people who are gay. It's unnecessary to have so much conviction about it. You don't agree with people who are gay and it grosses you out. Fine. But it's unnecessary to hate them or judge them.

As far as a religious argument, why does there need to be one? If you believe that a union between man and woman, whether it's marriage or not, only makes sense from a religious or evolutionary point of view because they can procreate/reproduce, then would you be of the opinion that impotent men and sterile women shouldn't be allowed to have companionship or be allowed to marry?

Plus, gay couples can adopt, just like impotent men and sterile women. You can raise children without the biology of pregnancy... if that's what you're trying to infer by asking for religious and evolutionary logic to homosexuality.

Love isn't easily definable. It's an abstract. For me, it's not an issue of whether you agree or disagree with being gay. Rather, it's about your ability to respect those who are gay without judgment. The Bible does talk about loving your neighbor and talks about not judging your neighbor. And, from an evolutionary point of view, if gay people don't affect your ability to reproduce, why should you care either way about them?

I somehow missed this very well put post. I'd say it's almost genius.

[mavs>spurs2]

Wrong. Homosexuality has flourished in numerous species (it is not confined to humans), as reported by peer-reviewed science, despite the fact that homosexuals don't procreate. What does that tell you? That sexual preference is probably a polygenic effect (that more than one gene is involved), and that it is NOT selected for or against by natural selection (it is a selectively neutral trait), otherwise it would have quickly left the gene pool.

Please don't abuse and misunderstand Darwin's theory, or genetics, for your own personal agendas. What are you studying? It sure isn't evolutionary biology or genetics.



Nice, open-minded attitude to others' rights they teach you at that college. :rolleyes

Bro I'm an accounting major, I'm not an expert in the history of homos, and quite frankly I'm not interested. I know that homosexuality makes me sick, it goes against my beliefs, and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to sway or change me. Homosexuality does not make sense from a religious nor an evolutionary standpoint. I do not care for political correctness, to be perfectly honest I hate it and think it sometimes goes too far. If I step on somebodies toes while voicing my opinions, then so be it. I do not give a fuck. I'm actually pretty open minded when it comes to most things, but homosexuality isn't one of them. They disgust me and I am repulsed by them. That's just the way it is, and if you're offended, then good.

[mavs>spurs2]

Are you sure they were actually females?

Yup it's not very often that a female will actually initiate the flirting but girls are a lot more bold today than in your generation. I'm guessing you're somewhere between the ages of 32 and 40. I'm 21 and girls today are a little bit different than the ones you grew up with. Women today are more bold and outgoing about their sexuality than in past generations. Sure it's not an everyday occurrence, but yeah I've ever had women come up and actually flirt with me, I didn't even have to approach them first. I've always found it to be really really sexy.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yup it's not very often that a female will actually initiate the flirting but girls are a lot more bold today than in your generation. I'm guessing you're somewhere between the ages of 32 and 40. I'm 21 and girls today are a little bit different than the ones you grew up with. Women today are more bold and outgoing about their sexuality than in past generations. Sure it's not an everyday occurrence, but yeah I've ever had women come up and actually flirt with me, I didn't even have to approach them first. I've always found it to be really really sexy.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Why does every new generation think they invented sex?

[I. Hustle]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Why does every new generation think they invented sex?

I'm with you. I am 10 years older than that dude and chicks are the same now as they were when I was 21. More than likely the same as they were 20, 30, 40 years ago. He is just now getting into the bar scene since he is only 21and experiencing that side of night life. Chicks that are at the bars/clubs get their drink on and get bold just like dudes.

[DisAsTerBot]

im a genuis! im 21! homos are gay!...for the last three pages




....one time a girl flirted with ME!

[mrsmaalox]

im a genuis! im 21! homos are gay!...for the last three pages




....one time a girl flirted with ME!

Thanks, I was just debating if I should go back a few pages to catch up! :tu

[rjv]

Why do all homo apologists always have to scream "Nooooo!! That's ignorant!" Are you the Michael Jackson off Southpark?

I'd like one of you to show me how homosexuality makes any sense whatsoever from a religious standpoint, or an evolutionary one. The floor is yours


from a religious standpoint? what religion? what denomination? what aspect of it? ethical? moral? metaphysical? does this question presuppose religion as the ultimate arbitrator? does it assume that all religions would agree?

are you suggesting that there could be a genetic aspect to homosexuality or are you being facetious and stating that evolution is not part of the equation?


the ability to answer the former almost depends on the answer to the latter. if one can demonstrate that there is a genetic or physiological character to homosexuality then one would pose the problem of determinism and free will to some, although not all, religions as certain faiths are based on the belief that we are esentially destined or subscribe to a fatalistic view while others believe in choice and self-determination.

certainly there are brain mapping studies that have suggested enough anatomical differences between homosexual and heterosexual brains that they have merited more studies and research. there can be no way to conclude at this point that there is no physiological facet to sexual orientation especially since so many other behaviors have been linked to biological factors.

the question of evolution juxtaposed to the question of religion is also interesting since not all religions or faiths even believe in evolution. but to the point about what could be the evolutionary benefit of homosexuality i would have to infer that you are stating the argument of the need to procreate. but have you ever considered the other point of view? the species at some point places a burden on its environment as humans are now doing by our exponentially expanding population. most ecological studies suggest that this planet could not sustain a population of 15 billion or more (a number that we are already more than halfway at). knowing this, would it really be necessary for all people to procreate? or could it be that there could actually be a benefit to homosexuality in that it helps place a limit on the intended height of our population?

[Blake]

Yup it's not very often that a female will actually initiate the flirting but girls are a lot more bold today than in your generation. I'm guessing you're somewhere between the ages of 32 and 40. I'm 21 and girls today are a little bit different than the ones you grew up with. Women today are more bold and outgoing about their sexuality than in past generations. Sure it's not an everyday occurrence, but yeah I've ever had women come up and actually flirt with me, I didn't even have to approach them first. I've always found it to be really really sexy.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

genius!

[Blake]

from a religious standpoint? what religion? what denomination? what aspect of it? ethical? moral? metaphysical? does this question presuppose religion as the ultimate arbitrator? does it assume that all religions would agree?

are you suggesting that there could be a genetic aspect to homosexuality or are you being facetious and stating that evolution is not part of the equation?


the ability to answer the former almost depends on the answer to the latter. if one can demonstrate that there is a genetic or physiological character to homosexuality then one would pose the problem of determinism and free will to some, although not all, religions as certain faiths are based on the belief that we are esentially destined or subscribe to a fatalistic view while others believe in choice and self-determination.

certainly there are brain mapping studies that have suggested enough anatomical differences between homosexual and heterosexual brains that they have merited more studies and research. there can be no way to conclude at this point that there is no physiological facet to sexual orientation especially since so many other behaviors have been linked to biological factors.

the question of evolution juxtaposed to the question of religion is also interesting since not all religions or faiths even believe in evolution. but to the point about what could be the evolutionary benefit of homosexuality i would have to infer that you are stating the argument of the need to procreate. but have you ever considered the other point of view? the species at some point places a burden on its environment as humans are now doing by our exponentially expanding population. most ecological studies suggest that this planet could not sustain a population of 15 billion or more (a number that we are already more than halfway at). knowing this, would it really be necessary for all people to procreate? or could it be that there could actually be a benefit to homosexuality in that it helps place a limit on the intended height of our population?

whoa slow down.....he said he's only "near genius"

if you don't throw in a few lines of "bud ice kicks ass" he'll be totally lost.

[v2freak]

Wrong. Homosexuality has flourished in numerous species (it is not confined to humans), as reported by peer-reviewed science, despite the fact that homosexuals don't procreate. What does that tell you? That sexual preference is probably a polygenic effect (that more than one gene is involved), and that it is NOT selected for or against by natural selection (it is a selectively neutral trait), otherwise it would have quickly left the gene pool.

Please don't abuse and misunderstand Darwin's theory, or genetics, for your own personal agendas. What are you studying? It sure isn't evolutionary biology or genetics.



Nice, open-minded attitude to others' rights they teach you at that college. :rolleyes

That's rather fascinating. I consider myself well-versed in evolution. Other than bonobos, what animals are known to consistently engage in homosexual behavior?

Also, I have heard horror stories of particularly persistent gay men who try to hit on straight men and convince them that they too are gay. Fact of the matter is, all gays are different. Some are notoriously horny, some just want to settle down with 1 guy, some are flamboyant and some try to cover it up.

[Blake]

That's rather fascinating. I consider myself well-versed in evolution. Other than bonobos, what animals are known to consistently engage in homosexual behavior?


Penguins?

[z0sa]

Evolution cannot occur without reproduction. Homosexuality obviously precludes reproduction. How can anyone argue, from a scientific standpoint, that homosexuality does anything else but take away genes from the pool?

Evolution isn't perfect and actually selects for a species' disintegration is the only argument one can make if homosexuality truly has biological roots.

[I. Hustle]

So OP have you gobbled the dudes cawk yet? How many of those mags did you stuff under your shirt after leaving the bedroom with your other friend?

[CosmicCowboy]

Fact of the matter is, all gays are different. Some are notoriously horny, some just want to settle down with 1 guy, some are flamboyant and some try to cover it up.

Damn! They almost sound...........HUMAN!...Who would have thought it?

[Blake]

Evolution cannot occur without reproduction. Homosexuality obviously precludes reproduction. How can anyone argue, from a scientific standpoint, that homosexuality does anything else but take away genes from the pool?

Evolution isn't perfect and actually selects for a species' disintegration is the only argument one can make if homosexuality truly has biological roots.

which do you think is higher on the evolutionary chain, asexual reproduction or bisexual reproduction?

[z0sa]

which do you think is higher on the evolutionary chain, asexual reproduction or bisexual reproduction?

"Bisexual" reproduction?

[JamStone]

Evolution cannot occur without reproduction. Homosexuality obviously precludes reproduction. How can anyone argue, from a scientific standpoint, that homosexuality does anything else but take away genes from the pool?

Evolution isn't perfect and actually selects for a species' disintegration is the only argument one can make if homosexuality truly has biological roots.

Heard of in vitro fertilization? Artificial insemination? Surrogate pregnancies?

Gay and lesbian couples can actually reproduce using their own sperm and eggs in the process. Might not be the traditional way of reproducing, but it's reproducing nonetheless. And especially if the couple has multiple children where each is a father/mother of one of the children, then both can pass on their genes.

Homosexuality does not necessarily take away genes from the pool. And homosexuality does not necessarily preclude reproduction.

And, the point that was brought up about population growth control is very poignant to an evolution argument. Overpopulation with insufficient resources hurts the entire population. Evolution has a way of trying to control overpopulation. Sometimes it's plague or disease. One could easily argue homosexuality is one of evolution's ways of controlling population growth. That's a legitimate reason.

And, back to the religion/Bible issue. mavs>spurs claims that homosexuality grosses him out and is against his beliefs and that the Bible is against it. Well, around the same passages in Leviticus of the Old Testament that says homosexuality is an abomination, it lists other abominations. They include shaving, getting tattoos, eating shellfish like crab or lobster. So I ask sincerely, do those things gross you out too? Have you ever shaved your face? Ever eaten crab or lobster? If so, that was an abomination just like homosexuality and you're going to hell. And, anyone of your loved ones that have too are going to hell too. So gross.

[Blake]

"Bisexual" reproduction?


bisexual

7. of, relating to, or involving both sexes, as bisexual reproduction.

Saunders Comprehensive Veterinary Dictionary, 3 ed. © 2007 Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved

Don't worry about semantics. Just answer the question, dipshit.

[Blake]

Heard of in vitro fertilization? Artificial insemination? Surrogate pregnancies?

Gay and lesbian couples can actually reproduce using their own sperm and eggs in the process. Might not be the traditional way of reproducing, but it's reproducing nonetheless. And especially if the couple has multiple children where each is a father/mother of one of the children, then both can pass on their genes.


It can also be argued that humans learning how to use in vitro fertilization can be seen as evolving.

[z0sa]

Gay and lesbian couples can actually reproduce using their own sperm and eggs in the process. Might not be the traditional way of reproducing, but it's reproducing nonetheless.


For the half a billion years of life before this century and in all other species than humans, homosexuality precludes reproduction, therefore evolution cannot occur and possible 'valuable' genes are lost. One must assume evolution actually selects against traits of homosexuality for this very reason. Additionally, evolution operates almost exclusively on natural parameters of attraction.


And especially if the couple has multiple children where each is a father/mother of one of the children, then both can pass on their genes.

The couple is hindering evolution, regardless. The combination of their genes is what fuels evolution.


Homosexuality does not necessarily take away genes from the pool. And homosexuality does not necessarily preclude reproduction.

By the majority of all counts, it does. 99.9% type number. The vast majority of homosexual creatures will not pass their genes on, and those that do will not do it paired with their partner..

[z0sa]

Don't worry about semantics. Just answer the question, dipshit.

There is no such thing as "bisexual reproduction", Blake.

www.dictionary.com proves it.

[z0sa]

It can also be argued that humans learning how to use in vitro fertilization can be seen as evolving.

You obviously don't know much about evolution.

lol "bisexual" reproduction. It's simply sexual reproduction, dumbass.

[JamStone]

For the half a billion years of life before this century and in all other species than humans, homosexuality precludes reproduction, therefore evolution cannot occur and possible 'valuable' genes are lost. One must assume evolution actually selects against traits of homosexuality for this very reason. Additionally, evolution operates almost exclusively on natural parameters of attraction.

You're trying to qualify evolution and restrict it. Evolution can happen over a span of a billion years or a span of only a few years. During the industrial revolution, there were white moths that over a very short span evolved into black moths because of industry. That's still evolution, despite the fact that million years prior, there were no black moths among that species. Technology can also cause evolution of a species. It has countless times before. From roads to urban development, man made technology has affected the habitat, behavioral traits, and even physical characteristics of many animals that has brought on evolution.

The fact that gay and lesbian couples can now reproduce with the help of technology and use their own sperm/eggs is absolutely a sign of evolution.




The couple is hindering evolution, regardless. The combination of their genes is what fuels evolution.

So is a wife cheating on her husband and getting pregnant by another man is hindering the husband's ability to pass his genes.




By the majority of all counts, it does. 99.9% type number. The vast majority of homosexual creatures will not pass their genes on, and those that do will not do it paired with their partner..

Evolution is a dynamic of totality. Probably millions upon millions of years ago, there was an ape like creature who was 0.1% of his species that through some minute fraction of a mutation learned how to stand upright and walk on two feet. Let's not try to argue about 99.9% when evolution actually works by those small percentages that differ from the vast majority. If things continued to go on based on 99.9% of what already is known, there would be no evolution. Everything would stay the same.

[mavs>spurs2]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Why does every new generation think they invented sex?

I don't understand how you never learned to read in your old age. I said that people in general are more open about their sexuality in past generations, not that people didn't have sex or something. Today norms are different and a female is more likely to be the initiator in some cases. Women were probably just as wild and crazy back then but today they don't try to hide it.

[z0sa]

You're trying to qualify evolution and restrict it.

One must if we are truly going to study whether or not something occurs because of evolution, of if in fact, those genes are hindering evolution and being selected against.


Evolution can happen over a span of a billion years or a span of only a few years. During the industrial revolution, there were white moths that over a very short span evolved into black moths because of industry. That's still evolution, despite the fact that million years prior, there were no black moths among that species.


You cite a very common example, and there is one notable fallacy: there WERE indeed black moths, just they were much rarer due to their lesser adapted genes. When the environment changed, black moths suddenly survived at a much higher rate and quickly overwhelmed the white moths for the same resources. This is what you call adaptation - and I'm not sure what place, other than miniscule, it has with homosexuals. Homosexuals aren't being selected against by the environment or even other homosexuals since no sexual reproduction can occur which passes on only two homosexual partners' genes.


Technology can also cause evolution of a species. It has countless times before. From roads to urban development, man made technology has affected the habitat, behavioral traits, and even physical characteristics of many animals that has brought on evolution.

Once again, this is environmental. Technology destroys animals habitats and those animals who are lucky enough to be able to cope and survive do so.


The fact that gay and lesbian couples can now reproduce with the help of technology and use their own sperm/eggs is absolutely a sign of evolution.

Evolution's 'sign' points the complete opposite way. Since homosexuals do not reproduce, evolution cannot occur in any natural sense.

We have simply found a way to evade evolution entirely, not aid in its progress.




So is a wife cheating on her husband and getting pregnant by another man is hindering the husband's ability to pass his genes.

Apples to oranges. A gay man cannot cheat on his gay lover with another gay man and pass his genes on.

I understand you're meaning 'artificial insemination' by this, but artificial insemination avoids evolution entirely for the partners. Evolution, by definition, means selecting the most attractive mates possible and reproducing. Artificial reproduction does not have evolution as any basis; evolution doesn't select for or against certain traits.

[mavs>spurs2]

And to everyone else, my point wasn't to get into a long drawn out discussion about religion and genetics. I simply do not like faggots, if that upsets you then great. Anyway it seems like zosa is doing a great job of owning you guys all by himself. Good day to all you straight people out there and God bless.

[z0sa]

and I want to say something: I have nothing, not one thing at all, against gays. I have gay family and friends. It still doesn't change what IMO is a completely human, psychological thing.

[DisAsTerBot]

And to everyone else, my point wasn't to get into a long drawn out discussion about religion and genetics. I simply do not like faggots, if that upsets you then great. Anyway it seems like zosa is doing a great job of owning you guys all by himself. Good day to all you straight people out there and God bless.

zosa argues to argue. that's what you do in your early 20's.
but rest assured he's not standing in your corner.

[mavs>spurs2]

zosa argues to argue. that's what you do in your early 20's.
but rest assured he's not standing in your corner.

Not on every issue but on some issues he is. Son are you straight? If so, then God bless and good day.

[JamStone]

And to everyone else, my point wasn't to get into a long drawn out discussion about religion and genetics. I simply do not like faggots, if that upsets you then great. Anyway it seems like zosa is doing a great job of owning you guys all by himself. Good day to all you straight people out there and God bless.

I just want to know if you think eating crabs, shrimp, lobsters is gross? Because it should also be against your beliefs.

Do you not shave at all because it should be against your beliefs?

Do you think children who curse out their parents should be sentenced to death because that's what the Bible says?

Homosexuality doesn't gross you out because it's against your beliefs. It grosses you out because you just don't like it. It's not about religion or evolution. That's not why you don't like it or it turns your stomach.

So with that near genius IQ you have, stop using any religion or evolution argument when talking about how you are against homosexuality.

[DisAsTerBot]

Do you not shave at all because it should be against your beliefs?



fear the beard :lol

[JamStone]

Quickly...

Homosexuality hinders reproduction, but it doesn't hinder evolution. They are two different things. From what we know scientifically, homosexuality is not a genetic trait passed on from parent to offspring. A gay parent does not necessarily reproduce a gay child and similarly a straight parent doesn't necessarily reproduce a straight child. So, homosexuality is something that hinders reproduction on an individual level. It does not effectively hinder evolution any more than a person who is impotent or sterile hinder evolution or simply a person who voluntarily or involuntarily decide not to have children hinder evolution (say a Catholic priest or nun).

Technology allows for reproduction by gay and lesbian couples and by their own sperm and eggs. That in itself is evolutionary allowing for individuals who may have not been able to otherwise pass their genes on to indeed do that now.

[v2freak]

You're trying to qualify evolution and restrict it. Evolution can happen over a span of a billion years or a span of only a few years. During the industrial revolution, there were white moths that over a very short span evolved into black moths because of industry. That's still evolution, despite the fact that million years prior, there were no black moths among that species. Technology can also cause evolution of a species. It has countless times before. From roads to urban development, man made technology has affected the habitat, behavioral traits, and even physical characteristics of many animals that has brought on evolution.

The fact that gay and lesbian couples can now reproduce with the help of technology and use their own sperm/eggs is absolutely a sign of evolution.





So is a wife cheating on her husband and getting pregnant by another man is hindering the husband's ability to pass his genes.





Evolution is a dynamic of totality. Probably millions upon millions of years ago, there was an ape like creature who was 0.1% of his species that through some minute fraction of a mutation learned how to stand upright and walk on two feet. Let's not try to argue about 99.9% when evolution actually works by those small percentages that differ from the vast majority. If things continued to go on based on 99.9% of what already is known, there would be no evolution. Everything would stay the same.

I'm still not really sure how this is evolution. It could be cultural evolution in the sense that if a person figures out how to make a better spear, he will tell his kid how to make a better spear and from generations on, they make better spears. But in a biological sense, I don't quite see it. Did lesbians and gays discover how to artificially create kids because they were spurned on by needs? Was a lesbian or gay born with a larger cranial capacity and thus discovered the science necessary to pass on genes?

10% of the population is gay, supposedly. There is evidence to suggest that some people are born gay, depending on factors like what order in the birth they were etc. There is also part of the population that probably chooses to be gay. But if for the percentage that is born that way, gays may never become extinct.

In any event, bringing up evolution is almost completely moot to the discussion. The appeal to nature fallacy is one that many people fall victim to - what's natural is 'right' and what is unnatural is 'wrong'.

[mavs>spurs2]

I just want to know if you think eating crabs, shrimp, lobsters is gross? Because it should also be against your beliefs.

Do you not shave at all because it should be against your beliefs?

Do you think children who curse out their parents should be sentenced to death because that's what the Bible says?

Homosexuality doesn't gross you out because it's against your beliefs. It grosses you out because you just don't like it. It's not about religion or evolution. That's not why you don't like it or it turns your stomach.

So with that near genius IQ you have, stop using any religion or evolution argument when talking about how you are against homosexuality.

Son after Jesus died, in the New Testament many of the old laws were abolished. These include the rules about shaving, shellfish, etc. I don't recall homosexuality being one of those things that were done away with.

[JamStone]

Son after Jesus died, in the New Testament many of the old laws were abolished. These include the rules about shaving, shellfish, etc. I don't recall homosexuality being one of those things that were done away with.

"Love your neighbor as yourself"

"Let he without sin cast the first stone"


Can you site the passages in the New Testament abolishing the laws against eating shellfish or shaving beards? Where are these New Testament passages abolishing those laws?

[JamStone]

I'm still not really sure how this is evolution. It could be cultural evolution in the sense that if a person figures out how to make a better spear, he will tell his kid how to make a better spear and from generations on, they make better spears. But in a biological sense, I don't quite see it. Did lesbians and gays discover how to artificially create kids because they were spurned on by needs? Was a lesbian or gay born with a larger cranial capacity and thus discovered the science necessary to pass on genes?

10% of the population is gay, supposedly. There is evidence to suggest that some people are born gay, depending on factors like what order in the birth they were etc. There is also part of the population that probably chooses to be gay. But if for the percentage that is born that way, gays may never become extinct.

In any event, bringing up evolution is almost completely moot to the discussion. The appeal to nature fallacy is one that many people fall victim to - what's natural is 'right' and what is unnatural is 'wrong'.

Fair. I do think evolution is being misused and inaccurately applied in part.

From what we know from science, homosexuality is not a genetic trait that is passed on, as I just mentioned above. And, hindering reproduction does not necessarily hinder evolution.

So I actually do agree that much of the evolution discussion has been moot.

[mavs>spurs2]

"Love your neighbor as yourself"

"Let he without sin cast the first stone"


Can you site the passages in the New Testament abolishing the laws against eating shellfish or shaving beards? Where are these New Testament passages abolishing those laws?

Jamstone, although Jesus did not come to abolish the old testament, he came to fulfill it, this is the tricky part: Because part of the old testament was the prophecy that the old bond (the Mosaic bond = ten commandments, circumcision etc) will be replaced by The One (Neo so to speak) who will introduce a new bond. The new bond basically consists of love others like you love yourself + Love god more than yourself + some things mentioned by Paulus (= no blood intake, no homosexuality etc)

[rjv]

Once again, this is environmental. Technology destroys animals habitats and those animals who are lucky enough to be able to cope and survive do so.


very true. if a species can find a way to adopt or survive in suddenly hostile conditions then it evolves.

but why do we think about this solely in terms of 'reproduction' ? there are clearly other ways that a species can benefit from adaptation. in other words, is evolution defined by reproduction or survival ?

[Mister Sinister]

"Love your neighbor as yourself"

"Let he without sin cast the first stone"
Brings to mind an image (that I can't find, sonuvabitch) consisting simply of 7 bars, in each of the colors of the rainbow, with the text "Will God punish me for loving or you for hating?" over it.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't understand how you never learned to read in your old age. I said that people in general are more open about their sexuality in past generations, not that people didn't have sex or something. Today norms are different and a female is more likely to be the initiator in some cases. Women were probably just as wild and crazy back then but today they don't try to hide it.

As a card carrying member of the pre-AID's sex, drugs, and rock n roll generation you can trust me when I tell you that women in the 60's, 70's and 80's did not try to hide their sexuality. Just because you have finally discovered sex doesn't mean it's new to everyone.

and OMG, like a girl HIT on you?
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[JamStone]

Jamstone, although Jesus did not come to abolish the old testament, he came to fulfill it, this is the tricky part: Because part of the old testament was the prophecy that the old bond (the Mosaic bond = ten commandments, circumcision etc) will be replaced by The One (Neo so to speak) who will introduce a new bond. The new bond basically consists of love others like you love yourself + Love god more than yourself + some things mentioned by Paulus (= no blood intake, no homosexuality etc)

Paulus? Where are those passages in the Bible please. I'll look them up.

My point, as it was earlier, is not to say homosexuality is right or wrong, but rather for people to respect a person who is gay without judgment. That is for something that person must face with his or her own god when their judgment comes, whether it's right or wrong.

I think each person deserves to not be judged for something like being gay. It's not my place or your place to cast judgment about it, for me or for you to ridicule them for it, to call them queers and mock them. That's what I have a problem with.

My pointing the stuff in the Bible was to point out your hypocrisy and selective citation of Bible passages, since the same place in Leviticus that condemns homosexuality also condemns the other things I point out like eating shellfish or shaving. Like I said much earlier, social customs evolve and change. People eat lobster and shrimp. People shave their faces. Children aren't sentenced to death for cursing out their parents. And, that's why I think that today, people need to respect other people who are gay, or at the very least not judge them or proactively express hatred for them.

[mavs>spurs2]

As a card carrying member of the pre-AID's sex, drugs, and rock n roll generation you can trust me when I tell you that women did not try to hide their sexuality. Just because you have finally discovered sex doesn't mean it's new to everyone.

and OMG, like a girl HIT on you?
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

I know you like to post about how much of a badass you are, how you got sooooo much pussy back in your day :rolleyes, how you're a 6'6 badass who picked up his boss by the throat and held him against the wall, how you're rich, etc, but the fact of the matter is I don't believe anything you say or wish to argue with you about moot points. The sexual revolution ended in the early 80's because of AIDS and things quieted down for a while. All I'm saying is that people are becoming more bold about their sexuality once again. Maybe you're of age where you were young during the heat of the sexual revolution. I really don't care.

[mavs>spurs2]

My pointing the stuff in the Bible was to point out your hypocrisy and selective citation of Bible passages, since the same place in Leviticus that condemns homosexuality also condemns the other things I point out like eating shellfish or shaving. Like I said much earlier, social customs evolve and change. People eat lobster and shrimp. People shave their faces. Children aren't sentenced to death for cursing out their parents. And, that's why I think that today, people need to respect other people who are gay, or at the very least not judge them or proactively express hatred for them.

Yes, people do all these things. Some of those strict laws against them were done away with in the new testament. However, homosexuality was still condemned. If you're interested, please, feel free to do your own research. I know you and Allanon enjoy this long debate sort of thing, but I simply don't have the time or patience for you at this particular moment.

[DisAsTerBot]

The sexual revolution ended in the early 80's because of AIDS and things quieted down for a while.

quieted down for a while?

and then your parents went out on a limb in the nineties and decided to try it again?

[CosmicCowboy]

I know you like to post about how much of a badass you are, how you got sooooo much pussy back in your day :rolleyes, how you're a 6'6 badass who picked up his boss by the throat and held him against the wall, how you're rich, etc, but the fact of the matter is I don't believe anything you say or wish to argue with you about moot points. The sexual revolution ended in the early 80's because of AIDS and things quieted down for a while. All I'm saying is that people are becoming more bold about their sexuality once again. Maybe you're of age where you were young during the heat of the sexual revolution. I really don't care.

It's all good dude. Congrats on finally getting laid....:toast

[JamStone]

Yes, people do all these things. Some of those strict laws against them were done away with in the new testament. However, homosexuality was still condemned. If you're interested, please, feel free to do your own research. I know you and Allanon enjoy this long debate sort of thing, but I simply don't have the time or patience for you at this particular moment.

That's why I asked you for the passages in the Bible.

First, show me where they abolished those laws about shellfish and shaving.

And, then give me those "Paulus" passages still condemning homosexuality.

If you're going to make an argument, back it up. Your near genius IQ can handle giving me Bible citations, can't it?

[mavs>spurs2]

It's all good dude. Congrats on finally getting laid....:toast

Yup, I've been naughty. You going to pin me up against the wall with one of your 60 year old arms?

[CosmicCowboy]

Yup, I've been naughty. You going to pin me up against the wall with one of your 60 year old arms?

I'm not the one talkin shit. You little bitches crack me up.

[JamStone]

Jamstone, although Jesus did not come to abolish the old testament, he came to fulfill it, this is the tricky part: Because part of the old testament was the prophecy that the old bond (the Mosaic bond = ten commandments, circumcision etc) will be replaced by The One (Neo so to speak) who will introduce a new bond. The new bond basically consists of love others like you love yourself + Love god more than yourself + some things mentioned by Paulus (= no blood intake, no homosexuality etc)

http://www.in-my-opinion.org/in-my-opinion-502.html&sid=a44028a381d08c531336d55b32e9db29

I didn't know a near genius would require plagiarism to argue a point.

Wow... at least we know even near geniuses google when they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[mavs>spurs2]

http://www.in-my-opinion.org/in-my-opinion-502.html&sid=a44028a381d08c531336d55b32e9db29

I didn't know a near genius would require plagiarism to argue a point.

Wow... at least we know even near geniuses google when they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

Because I wanted to find what I was looking for without searching through the bible for it. I've stated numerous times that I'm not interested in a long drawn out debate about religion. The guy is right though, FWIW. There is no such thing as plagiarism on a messageboard

[mavs>spurs2]

I'm not the one talkin shit. You little bitches crack me up.

Yup everyone is a little bitch, you're the big billy badass. You're 6'6, rich, and pin people against the throat with one arm when they disagree with you!

[I. Hustle]

"Love your neighbor as yourself"

"Let he without sin cast the first stone"


Can you site the passages in the New Testament abolishing the laws against eating shellfish or shaving beards? Where are these New Testament passages abolishing those laws?

I think he was talking about Acts 11:1-9 but that doesn't say anything about shellfish.


I know google is an awesome reference but it helps to study and research yourself instead of just rehashing other people's arguments. That goes for anyone here trying to argue using the bible as their back up.
I know I don't seem like it but I studied the bible... religiously lol... for about 6 years straight. I will not get into a religious discussion because of it though and before I am labeled I do not consider myself to be christian.

[Blake]

There is no such thing as "bisexual reproduction", Blake.

www.dictionary.com proves it.

Sure there is. I just posted it.

Obviously you would still rather worry about semantics than answer the question. No surprise.

[Blake]

You obviously don't know much about evolution.

Humans have managed to reproduce without having to have male-female intercoure.

Obviously you don't know much about evolution.


lol "bisexual" reproduction. It's simply sexual reproduction, dumbass.

lol "bisexual" reproduction is in the veterinarian dictionary, dumbass.

[z0sa]

Sure there is. I just posted it.

Obviously you would still rather worry about semantics than answer the question.

My source redirects to ask.com since it can't find a definition.


No surprise.

Blake cares about my opinion. No surprise.

[z0sa]

Humans have managed to reproduce without having to have male-female intercoure.

A male and a female are still involved.

Obviously you don't know much about evolution.

[Blake]

I don't understand how you never learned to read in your old age. I said that people in general are more open about their sexuality in past generations, not that people didn't have sex or something. Today norms are different and a female is more likely to be the initiator in some cases. Women were probably just as wild and crazy back then but today they don't try to hide it.

:lol

women are the same today as they always have been.

you're just too smart to see that.

[RichardSimmons]

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. :rolleyes Are we not all human?

[z0sa]

women are the same today as they always have been.

That's a very subjective statement. Women 1000 years ago were the same in physical and mental capacity, but differing cultural ideals, a lack of technology and wide spread knowledge, and single-sex dominated societies certainly changed the way women viewed the world.

[Blake]

We have simply found a way to evade evolution entirely, not aid in its progress.

So we evolved by finding a way to evade evolution.

You are making up your own rules about what evolution means.


I understand you're meaning 'artificial insemination' by this, but artificial insemination avoids evolution entirely for the partners. Evolution, by definition, means selecting the most attractive mates possible and reproducing. Artificial reproduction does not have evolution as any basis; evolution doesn't select for or against certain traits.

Great. Let's go one step further and take the sperm and eggs of the best and brightest people of the world to make the most attractive offspring possible in a science lab.

Society would benefit from that faster than having "nature" run it's course.

This thread needed a bit of Godwin's Law in it, so thanks for that bit of inspiration. :tu

[Blake]

That's a very subjective statement. Women 1000 years ago were the same in physical and mental capacity, but differing cultural ideals, a lack of technology and wide spread knowledge, and single-sex dominated societies certainly changed the way women viewed the world.


you are correct, but in the context of the bar scene, women have pretty much always been the same.

way to take it to the extreme.

[z0sa]

Great. Let's go one step further and take the sperm and eggs of the best and brightest people of the world to make the most attractive offspring possible in a science lab.

Society would benefit from that faster than having "nature" run it's course.

Are you being sarcastic? The brightest and best person is once again, a very subjective idea. You can't go by an iq test and a popularity vote. And their offspring's environments will impact them as much as their genes will.

[z0sa]

you are correct, but in the context of the bar scene, women have pretty much always been the same.

way to to take that to the extreme.

I don't really think it's that extreme, because all these things were different 60 years ago too. You'd have to have made your own conclusions to understand that, though.

[Blake]

Are you being sarcastic? The brightest and best person is once again, a very subjective idea. You can't go by an iq test and a popularity vote. And their offspring's environments will impact them as much as their genes will.

exactly. It's why you talking about losing out on 'valuable' genes is ridiculous.

[Blake]

There is no such thing as plagiarism on a messageboard

sure there is. It's what you just did.

[z0sa]

exactly. It's why you talking about losing out on 'valuable' genes is ridiculous.

Life isn't fair. White/Black moth example proves that. When your environment changes, you must be suited for the change as well.

Second, you're arguing a strawman. I never argued that homosexual humans have valuable genes that need to be passed on - I argued that is how evolution works. It is a completely random process, but it does have purpose. Additionally, I'm not arguing about homosexuals' affects on evolution - I don't think homosexuality has much to do with your genetics as it does with your ideals and environment.

[Blake]

In any event, bringing up evolution is almost completely moot to the discussion. The appeal to nature fallacy is one that many people fall victim to - what's natural is 'right' and what is unnatural is 'wrong'.

that.

[Blake]

Life isn't fair. White/Black moth example proves that. When your environment changes, you must be suited for the change as well.

apparently you aren't suited for such changes in society.

that's a shame. I guess life isn't fair.


Second, you're arguing a strawman. I never argued that homosexual humans have valuable genes that need to be passed on - I argued that is how evolution works. It is a completely random process, but it does have purpose.

lol valuable genes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution doesn't say anything about evolution needing valuable genes to work.

I don't know what you are trying to argue. I don't think you know what you are trying to argue.

[z0sa]

To sum up my thoughts, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

It has very little to do with evolution. Evolution is all about reproduction, not attractive mates.

Since homosexuals don't reproduce naturally, their combined traits can't be selected for. Whether or not homosexuals reproducing through other means negates this idea is debatable.

[z0sa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution doesn't say anything about evolution needing valuable genes to work.

How valuable your genes are depends on your environment most of the time. When the white moth's genes were selected against, they lost 'value.' Those moths died off, Blake.

Can you prove evolution is selecting for or against artificial insemination?

[boutons_deux]

"Evolution is all about reproduction, not attractive mates"

what a dumbfuck. Mate selection is heavily influenced what the selector considers "attractive".

[z0sa]

"Evolution is all about reproduction, not attractive mates"

what a dumbfuck. Mate selection is heavily influenced what the selector considers "attractive".

In the context of homosexuality, dumbfuck. If there's attraction but no reproduction, evolution can't occur.

[Pero]

There's a difference between scientific progress and evolution. We haven't evolved to a stage that even homosexuals could make babies, we made scientific discoveries that make this possible. Like we haven't evolved to fly, we discovered aeroplanes to fly with them. Had we evolved to fly, we'd be born with wings. Or a flying superpower. :D

[Blake]

How valuable your genes are depends on your environment most of the time. When the white moth's genes were selected against, they lost 'value.' Those moths died off, Blake.

Can you prove evolution is selecting for or against artificial insemination?

You are the one claiming valuable genes are lost due to homosexuality. Can you prove that valuable genes are lost by using artificial insemination instead of intercourse?

I'll answer for you. "No, because I have no idea what a valuable human gene would be."

I have no idea where you are headed with this. I don't think you have any idea where you are headed with this, especially since you say you have no problem with the gay.

[Blake]

There's a difference between scientific progress and evolution.

There's a difference between biological evolution and scientific, industrial or societal evolution.

Mankind can fly, can reproduce and can now produce clones.

That's evolution.

[Blake]

Since homosexuals don't reproduce naturally, their combined traits can't be selected for. Whether or not homosexuals reproducing through other means negates this idea is debatable.

No, it's really not debatable.

[z0sa]

We agree to disagree then, Blake.

[rjv]

Life isn't fair. White/Black moth example proves that. When your environment changes, you must be suited for the change as well.

Second, you're arguing a strawman. I never argued that homosexual humans have valuable genes that need to be passed on - I argued that is how evolution works. It is a completely random process, but it does have purpose. Additionally, I'm not arguing about homosexuals' affects on evolution - I don't think homosexuality has much to do with your genetics as it does with your ideals and environment.

aren't these rather metaphysical assumptions ?

[Blake]

aren't these rather metaphysical assumptions ?

agree to disagree

[Pero]

There's a difference between biological evolution and scientific, industrial or societal evolution.

Mankind can fly, can reproduce and can now produce clones.

That's evolution.

Ok, but it's scientific evolution, not human evolution.

[Blake]

Ok, but it's scientific evolution, not human evolution.

an argument can be made that it is human evolution as well.

[Pero]

an argument can be made that it is human evolution as well.

Maybe, but I don't think so.

[mavs>spurs2]

:lol

women are the same today as they always have been.

you're just too smart to see that.

Right, society has never changed. Carry on dumbass

[z0sa]

Maybe, but I don't think so.

Me either.

[Whisky Dog]

This thread is still going on? What can you fucks possibly have to argue about?

[Sisk]

I need to come to the club more often... this thread is hilarious

[JamStone]

I think "evolution" is kind of being mis-applied here and misconstrued with respect to homosexuality. For me, I look at evolution as more of actual traits evolving or even changing in a species. Things like losing a tail, birds becoming flightless, opposable thumbs and walking upright. I don't really view mere reproduction and the mixing of DNA necessarily as "evolution" per se, at least not how we study evolution. Reproduction is part of it, but at the core that's not really what evolution is about.

When it comes to passing along genes or not passing along genes, reproduction doesn't necessarily consist of evolutionary change. And to me, homosexuality doesn't preclude evolution from taking place. A straight person might simply not have children for whatever reason, like being a Catholic priest or nun, or being impotent/sterile, or a married couple simply choosing not to have children. You wouldn't argue those people are hindering evolution. None of those examples hinders evolution from taking place. Genes can be passed on if a person (who doesn't have children) has siblings, or a guy donates sperm. And once again, gay couples can have kids and can use their own sperm and eggs. Heck, say a lesbian couple chooses to have a child and they ask one of their brothers to donate sperm for in vitro fertilization of the other. That's getting both sets of genes by a lesbian couple. So what homosexuality did, before science allowed gay and lesbian couples to have their own children, was kept certain individuals from passing along their own individual genes. But, that's not hindering evolution, not unless their was certain physical trait only gays possessed that would lead to an evolutionary change in the entire species. Is that the case? Not that I know of.

Evolution to me is more about actual changes to the species, adaptability to environmental conditions, and making a real, tangible "evolutionary" change to the species. Homosexuality doesn't preclude or hinder that from happening. And, being gay is not a genetic trait anyway. If that were the case, then before science could help gay couples to have children, then gay couples would have become extinct. Homosexuality neither precludes nor hinders evolution.

[mavs>spurs2]

And, being gay is not a genetic trait anyway.

So you think being gay is a choice?

[JamStone]

Genetic and biological aren't necessarily the same thing.

For example, being right-handed or left-handed is not a genetic trait passed on from parent to child, but it is a biological trait that is not determined by choice. From everything I have read about being gay, science seems to show that being gay is more biological than environmental. However, it doesn't seem to be a genetic trait passed on from parent to child.

Genetic is not necessarily biological. And, personally, I don't think being gay is a choice. Why would a person "choose" a life of ridicule and alienation?

[mavs>spurs2]

Genetic and biological aren't necessarily the same thing.

For example, being right-handed or left-handed is not a genetic trait passed on from parent to child, but it is a biological trait that is not determined by choice. From everything I have read about being gay, science seems to show that being gay is more biological than environmental. However, it doesn't seem to be a genetic trait passed on from parent to child.

Genetic is not necessarily biological. And, personally, I don't think being gay is a choice. Why would a person "choose" a life of ridicule and alienation?

The same reason people choose to argue for the sake of arguing, and stick out their own neck to defend against something that's often ridiculed? Maybe they're attention starved, maybe it's some sort of personality disorder or deep psychological things at work, who really knows, just some guesses. I've seen too many homo's who were absolutely FLAMING. Obvious that they wanted everyone to know they were gay. Last I checked, being gay didn't make you automatically talk with a lisp. I've ever known of people to come out of the closet who acted just like any other guy and you never would have guessed it. Why do the others act so flamboyant and unnatural, like they're going out of their way to act a certain way? I think being gay is a choice at least for some.

[JamStone]

I wouldn't doubt that some gay men and lesbians "choose" to be so. In general, there are exceptions to every rule. However, I believe for the vast majority of gay men and lesbians, it's not a choice but something they were predisposed to before birth, something biological. And, that's why I think it's more appropriate to use the term "sexual orientation" as opposed to "sexual preference." That's my personal opinion.

Now the other things you're asking about is more about personality, not about actually being gay. Why are some people (straight or gay) obnoxious and others humble? Why are some people assholes and others kind? Why are some people tempermental and others calm? Why are some people shy and others outgoing? That's what you're asking now. And, there really is no clear answer. Sure, a gay person can "choose" to be flamboyant. That doesn't mean that person "chose" to be gay.

What you are touching on now is not really directly pertinent to the issue of whether being gay is biological or a choice.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

That's rather fascinating. I consider myself well-versed in evolution. Other than bonobos, what animals are known to consistently engage in homosexual behavior?

Also, I have heard horror stories of particularly persistent gay men who try to hit on straight men and convince them that they too are gay. Fact of the matter is, all gays are different. Some are notoriously horny, some just want to settle down with 1 guy, some are flamboyant and some try to cover it up.

Here is a list with references at the bottom to the studies (a lot of them are in a book) that detail homosexuality in each species:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior


Evolution cannot occur without reproduction. Homosexuality obviously precludes reproduction. How can anyone argue, from a scientific standpoint, that homosexuality does anything else but take away genes from the pool?

Evolution isn't perfect and actually selects for a species' disintegration is the only argument one can make if homosexuality truly has biological roots.


For the half a billion years of life before this century and in all other species than humans, homosexuality precludes reproduction, therefore evolution cannot occur and possible 'valuable' genes are lost. One must assume evolution actually selects against traits of homosexuality for this very reason. Additionally, evolution operates almost exclusively on natural parameters of attraction.

The couple is hindering evolution, regardless. The combination of their genes is what fuels evolution.

By the majority of all counts, it does. 99.9% type number. The vast majority of homosexual creatures will not pass their genes on, and those that do will not do it paired with their partner..

What you are saying is logically contradictory. If homosexuality is "selected against" it would have disappeared from the gene pool - instead, it is found in many species from all families. Thus, it is not an evolutionarily negative trait. The individual homosexual's genes may not be passed on because they don't procreate, yet the trait persists in the population. So, homosexuality is probably polygenic, and at least some of the genes involved are evolutionarily neutral. That must be so for homosexuality to persist in a population over time.

[phyzik]

I wouldn't doubt that some gay men and lesbians "choose" to be so. In general, there are exceptions to every rule. However, I believe for the vast majority of gay men and lesbians, it's not a choice but something they were predisposed to before birth, something biological. And, that's why I think it's more appropriate to use the term "sexual orientation" as opposed to "sexual preference." That's my personal opinion.

Now the other things you're asking about is more about personality, not about actually being gay. Why are some people (straight or gay) obnoxious and others humble? Why are some people assholes and others kind? Why are some people tempermental and others calm? Why are some people shy and others outgoing? That's what you're asking now. And, there really is no clear answer. Sure, a gay person can "choose" to be flamboyant. That doesn't mean that person "chose" to be gay.

What you are touching on now is not really directly pertinent to the issue of whether being gay is biological or a choice.

A perfect example of this is my older brother.

He is gay.

I guarantee if anyone of you met him, you would not be able to tell. He is my go to guy in Austin when I want a hook up, and man, does he deliver with the women! :hat

All of my friends have met him and they where completely suprised at how "straight" he acted. In fact, he actually hates the "flamers".... His own word for the "flamboyant".

If anyone is THAT insecure about sexuality to be around a gay person that they feel threatened, perhaps they have something deeper in their psychie that they should look at.

I'll admit, I was upset with my brother 10 years ago when he came out, but its been a blessing in disguise. Women hit on him all the time and he just points them at me. :lol

OP: take a word of advice..... If your friend really is gay, he can hook you up with more than you can handle. As long as he isnt hitting on you, what the fuck is the problem? He is still the same guy around you, right?

Your situation is different than mine though, you have a friend, I have a brother. My brother isnt going to hit on me. If your friend comes out to you, just lay down the ground rules. He will be your ultimate wingman, trust me.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

very true. if a species can find a way to adopt or survive in suddenly hostile conditions then it evolves.

but why do we think about this solely in terms of 'reproduction' ? there are clearly other ways that a species can benefit from adaptation. in other words, is evolution defined by reproduction or survival ?

I don't think you understand Darwinian evolution - it has nothing to do with organisms "finding a way to adapt" because your genes are set from birth - what you are born with is what you will pass on. Instead, it has to do with particular individuals who win the genetic lottery which predisposes them to surviving and reproducing in their niche more successfully than others.

A simple summary of Darwinian evolution (note: it operates on a POPULATION level):

1. the individuals that make up a population are not identical (due to mutation and sexual reproduction) (e.g. Darwin’s finches);

2. some of this variation is heritable (through DNA);

3. variation leads to different rates of survival and reproduction for individuals in the population,depending on how well they are suited to their environment;

4. individuals leave different numbers of descendants that survive to reproductive age;

5. each successive generation of a population is comprised of individuals who are more likely to survive and reproduce given the particular conditions of the physical environment at the time.


Genetic and biological aren't necessarily the same thing.

For example, being right-handed or left-handed is not a genetic trait passed on from parent to child, but it is a biological trait that is not determined by choice. From everything I have read about being gay, science seems to show that being gay is more biological than environmental. However, it doesn't seem to be a genetic trait passed on from parent to child.

Genetic is not necessarily biological. And, personally, I don't think being gay is a choice. Why would a person "choose" a life of ridicule and alienation?

I think you are thinking of genetics only in single-gene, dominant-recessive terms. It is far more complex than that. For example, homosexuality, as with many genetically influenced personality traits (most personality traits are a mix of genes and environment, except sense of humour which is entirely learned), is probably a combination of many genes, some of which are recessive and can exist and be passed on in a person's DNA without being expressed (only when two copies of a recessive gene appear is the trait expressed). That explains how homosexuality can be passed on an persist in the genome.

[The Reckoning]

dolphins are pretty gay and theyre still around

[Blake]

Right, society has never changed. Carry on dumbass

right society has changed, women don't.

carry on, genius.

[Blake]

I don't think you understand Darwinian evolution

I'm betting he does.

[rjv]

I don't think you understand Darwinian evolution - it has nothing to do with organisms "finding a way to adapt" because your genes are set from birth - what you are born with is what you will pass on. Instead, it has to do with particular individuals who win the genetic lottery which predisposes them to surviving and reproducing in their niche more successfully than others.

A simple summary of Darwinian evolution (note: it operates on a POPULATION level):

1. the individuals that make up a population are not identical (due to mutation and sexual reproduction) (e.g. Darwin’s finches);

2. some of this variation is heritable (through DNA);

3. variation leads to different rates of survival and reproduction for individuals in the population,depending on how well they are suited to their environment;

4. individuals leave different numbers of descendants that survive to reproductive age;

5. each successive generation of a population is comprised of individuals who are more likely to survive and reproduce given the particular conditions of the physical environment at the time.




i think you misunderstood my post. what i was getting at was that an organisms enironment suddenly becomes hostile then that organisms survival will depend on its ability to adapt as quickly as possible to the environment. if an algae, for instance, suddenly has to survive in a certain niche then it has to search to see if there is any trait it currently possesses to get by while future generations would then continue to evolve towards a species fully capable of surviving in that new environment.

and my point was as to the evolution of a species (not an individual) and whether the survival of that species was completely dependent on reproduction.

we are seeing how so many species are going extinct because they lack the capabilty to find traits that enable them to survive in their rapidly changing environs. it is not because they lack the ability to reproduce but rather because they lack the ability to adapt immediately to the challenges the new environment poses.

[rjv]

dolphins are pretty gay and theyre still around

dan marino is gay ? i mean, i can buy ricky williams being gay but not dan the man.

[JamStone]

I think you are thinking of genetics only in single-gene, dominant-recessive terms. It is far more complex than that. For example, homosexuality, as with many genetically influenced personality traits (most personality traits are a mix of genes and environment, except sense of humour which is entirely learned), is probably a combination of many genes, some of which are recessive and can exist and be passed on in a person's DNA without being expressed (only when two copies of a recessive gene appear is the trait expressed). That explains how homosexuality can be passed on an persist in the genome.

I can buy that, but I don't know if that has been proven or not scientifically when it comes to homosexuality. I do recall vaguely that there have been scientific studies that showed there is something different in one part of the brain for gay men. I think it's something like a biological anomaly that just sometimes occurs. Now, I'm no scientist or an expert on the brain or homosexuality, so perhaps that anomaly is a result of certain mixtures of genes. I simply don't know. I just figured it was one of those things biological traits that isn't necessarily part of a genetic ladder. But, I wouldn't be surprised if how describe it is how it actually is.

[mavs>spurs2]

a faggot couple came into work today..:vomit:

[Ignignokt]

If you don't like gays, you're a closeted gay person yourself who is insecure, just ask CuckingFunt.

[Blake]

a faggot couple came into work today..:vomit:

did they ask you to supersize the fries? :vomit:

[CosmicCowboy]

did they ask you to supersize the fries? :vomit:

:lmao

[mavs>spurs2]

did they ask you to supersize the fries? :vomit:

Your cleverness and originality were really on display on that one, oh boy!

[mavs>spurs2]

:lmao

Blake said don't forget to suck the balls while you're down there..:wtf

[Blake]

Blake said don't forget to suck the balls while you're down there..:wtf

You have yet to display any cleverness or originality, oh boy!

[Blake]

My iq is in the 140's, and I hate faggots. These are both true statements.

This isn't really a clever or original, but it's fucking hilarious.

:lol

[mavs>spurs2]

You have yet to display any cleverness or originality, oh boy!

that's what i've always thought about you, i mean i just never really saw the point in your spurstalk existance other than being an annoyance. oh well, we can't all get what we want, IE there are still faggots running around in the world, and blake is still posting on spurstalk. I'm sure there's something you also want in life but are unable to have, maybe a bigger penis?

[mookie2001]

let me get this straight, mavsfan, 21 from Dallas, loves eminem and hates "fags"

amazing

[mavs>spurs2]

let me get this straight, mavsfan, 21 from Dallas, loves eminem and hates "fags"

amazing

i don't love eminem. obviously you just like to grasp at straws and clutch that shit very hard with a death grip. i voted for eminem in your little poll to spite the mookie crew. i don't dislike eminem, but i don't jack off to him either. while we're establishing things, spur fan, overweight and late 20's, from victora, is still upset with me. gotcha