Spurs don't have the will to win anymore

[phxspurfan]

I'm sad to say it, but I've watched almost every single game this season, and it looks like this team just doesn't have the will to win anymore.

- Parker is smiling after getting owned by the refs on almost every drive to the hoop.

- Duncan isn't giving his best effort and, like others have mentioned, is even starting to tune out Pop.

- Manu is bitching before and after games and is playing like either a playmaker or a shooter, but not both like he usually does.

The rest of the cast is either not skilled enough (RMJ, Blair, Bonner, Bogans), or is not performing like they could fit with the rest of the team (RJ).

This team needs to be dynamited. They can't defend against youth (as witnessed watching their performance against the Kings), length (tonight's game), or strength (against the Rockets). They are not clutch. Their coach is stubborn as hell and won't learn from his small-ball mistakes. You can see it in their faces that they have no chemistry and their run as a nucleus is over.

Two things that remain positives are their relative health (already mentioned in other threads) and the fact that they are still getting everyone's A+ game (even if the teams they are playing are undermanned). So at some point, if both of the following happen:

a. They make a move to get a defensive big
b. They start playing some team defense
c. Their luck improves (shooting, foul calls)

...then they will have a chance at making a playoff impact this year. If not, they are in serious danger of missing the playoffs entirely.

[phxspurfan]

Oh and after a look at the standings, we are now 6th (and one loss out of 9th).

The Jazz are 3rd. That's who we'd play if the playoffs started tomorrow, non?

Coach Sloan has led this team, with far less talent and the same chemistry issues (Booz, AK47...) to a 30-win record thus far. They are 9-1 in their last 10 and are riding a 6 game winning streak.

This is his roster and box score from their latest win over Portland.

pos min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a +/- off def tot ast pf st to bs ba pts
A. Kirilenko F 35:37 8-9 0-1 6-7 +11 0 6 6 8 4 2 2 2 0 22
P. Millsap F-C 41:12 4-8 0-0 4-4 +12 1 8 9 5 4 0 0 2 0 12
M. Okur C 33:12 11-13 1-2 5-5 +13 1 7 8 0 4 0 0 1 0 28
R. Brewer G-F 23:13 4-9 0-1 0-0 +7 0 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 1 8
D. Williams G 39:01 3-9 1-2 6-6 +8 0 4 4 13 2 0 3 0 0 13
C. Miles 17:44 3-7 2-4 2-2 +3 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 10
R. Price 08:12 1-3 0-1 2-2 +5 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 4
W. Matthews 24:47 6-6 0-0 4-6 +6 2 3 5 1 3 1 2 0 0 16
K. Korver 11:47 1-2 1-2 0-0 -3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3
K. Fesenko 03:57 0-0 0-0 0-0 +3 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0
S. Gaines 00:47 1-1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
K. Koufos 00:31 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


That's Wes Matthews off the bench with 16, and former Spur D-leaguer CJ Miles with 10. :depressed

[rayray2k8]

.....




















But it's only February!!!

[SequSpur]

Oh and after a look at the standings, we are now 6th (and one loss out of 9th).

The Jazz are 3rd. That's who we'd play if the playoffs started tomorrow, non?

Coach Sloan has led this team, with far less talent and the same chemistry issues (Booz, AK47...) to a 30-win record thus far. They are 9-1 in their last 10 and are riding a 6 game winning streak.

This is his roster and box score from their latest win over Portland.

pos min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a +/- off def tot ast pf st to bs ba pts
A. Kirilenko F 35:37 8-9 0-1 6-7 +11 0 6 6 8 4 2 2 2 0 22
P. Millsap F-C 41:12 4-8 0-0 4-4 +12 1 8 9 5 4 0 0 2 0 12
M. Okur C 33:12 11-13 1-2 5-5 +13 1 7 8 0 4 0 0 1 0 28
R. Brewer G-F 23:13 4-9 0-1 0-0 +7 0 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 1 8
D. Williams G 39:01 3-9 1-2 6-6 +8 0 4 4 13 2 0 3 0 0 13
C. Miles 17:44 3-7 2-4 2-2 +3 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 10
R. Price 08:12 1-3 0-1 2-2 +5 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 4
W. Matthews 24:47 6-6 0-0 4-6 +6 2 3 5 1 3 1 2 0 0 16
K. Korver 11:47 1-2 1-2 0-0 -3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3
K. Fesenko 03:57 0-0 0-0 0-0 +3 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0
S. Gaines 00:47 1-1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
K. Koufos 00:31 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


That's Wes Matthews off the bench with 16, and former Spur D-leaguer CJ Miles with 10. :depressed

and they swept the spurs...something Todd Tango can't relate to cuz he is sucking Pop's dick every night.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Can you really blame them for not being as hungry as they were in 03? Or 06? Or even 08?

We're talkin about human beings here, not robots. And all of us on spurstalk have a very good grasp of our team's personalities. I can't blame them or fault them for not being the hungry ass monster of a team we've seen in the past, or having the emotion of other teams in this league.

Perhaps if we make a trade, that's the kind of player we should consider...if one is available. A loud, emotional, active leader, who is HUNGRY.

They need someone in there who will reignite the passion of all the veterans on this club. Richard Jefferson was thought by some to be hungry coming into this season...but we've now witnessed that he has no real fire or drive to be a champion.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think it's a matter of those guys not caring or giving it their all or whatever..I mean, they can play harder like they would in the playoffs, but that isn't the main problem..

This is an OLD team..this isn't like the previous OLD Spurs that had a younger big 3..now the big 3 is OLD and you're playing them with a bunch of players that are past their athletic primes..nobody is here to spark the team..they are slow and lifeless..

We obviously lack size, but we also clearly lack youth, athleticism and energy..they need players to spark the team when they're in a lull..we need to stop piling up slow players like Finley and Bogans, we need some athletic players that can bring some energy to this old ass team..

The Spurs need a spark..it needs to come from a trade and/or youth..the latter isn't going to happen because our coach doesn't believe it, but the former should happen..

[all_heart]

Something is up with them, they should be playing much better. I think it's Pop, he's going in the wrong direction with this team. Playing small ball against one of the biggest teams in the NBA, playing dinosaurs like Finley. I feel the worst for Timmy.

[Chomag]

I wish I could say the OP is an idiot.... dammiit for him being right though :depressed

[phxspurfan]

The Spurs need a spark..it needs to come from a trade and/or youth


What sucks is we have the pieces to make a deal to bring someone in (RMJ, Hill, Fin, Manu) but I think we're just going to stand pat or sign a big that won't help much. If we could go and get a couple players that are hungry as hell we could make a run. We need a Mario Elie/Malik kind of duo in here.

[phxspurfan]

A 7 foot Malik.

[DAF86]

I don't think will or desire are the problem, guys were really trying out there but no matter how hard you try you can't get taller, it's not our players fault that their coach decides to play a 6'6'' kid at center (along side four perimiter players) having three guys on the bench that are 7'0'' or close to it.

[spurtech09]

spurs would be ok if pop used his bigs he have like ian and theo....but no he rather play small ball....come on pop your better than that

[phxspurfan]

I don't think will or desire are the problem, guys were really trying out there but no matter how hard you try you can't get taller, it's not our players fault that their coach decides to play a 6'6'' kid at center (along side four perimiter players) having three guys on the bench that are 7'0'' or close to it.

I don't know about that, Duncan was out there for a few minutes and looked like he was playing with 50% effort. I'd like to be a Regular Season Duncan apologist, but at least someone should tell them that even Barkley knew it was a must win game.

[sabar]

I don't think will or desire are the problem, guys were really trying out there but no matter how hard you try you can't get taller, it's not our players fault that their coach decides to play a 6'6'' kid at center (along side four perimiter players) having three guys on the bench that are 7'0'' or close to it.


spurs would be ok if pop used his bigs he have like ian and theo....but no he rather play small ball....come on pop your better than that

I wish it was this easy, but anyone with eyes can see that the team is flawed through and through. Bigs don't make you play with heart, they don't improve your perimeter D, they don't make Jefferson play good, and they don't make our big 3 play with ANY consistency.

We are flawed through and through. Playing bigs is only ONE part of our PILE of problems.

Its going to take a serious fantasy trade to fix what we have. Playing bigs is hardly the problem, or we wouldn't have won so many games last year with the corpse of Finley, Bonner, and RMJ shouldering such a large load.

[SenorSpur]

I don't think it's a matter of those guys not caring or giving it their all or whatever..I mean, they can play harder like they would in the playoffs, but that isn't the main problem..

This is an OLD team..this isn't like the previous OLD Spurs that had a younger big 3..now the big 3 is OLD and you're playing them with a bunch of players that are past their athletic primes..nobody is here to spark the team..they are slow and lifeless..

We obviously lack size, but we also clearly lack youth, athleticism and energy..they need players to spark the team when they're in a lull..we need to stop piling up slow players like Finley and Bogans, we need some athletic players that can bring some energy to this old ass team..

The Spurs need a spark..it needs to come from a trade and/or youth..the latter isn't going to happen because our coach doesn't believe it, but the former should happen..

:clap :tu

[Dro210]

Can you really blame them for not being as hungry as they were in 03? Or 06? Or even 08?

We're talkin about human beings here, not robots. And all of us on spurstalk have a very good grasp of our team's personalities. I can't blame them or fault them for not being the hungry ass monster of a team we've seen in the past, or having the emotion of other teams in this league.

Perhaps if we make a trade, that's the kind of player we should consider...if one is available. A loud, emotional, active leader, who is HUNGRY.

They need someone in there who will reignite the passion of all the veterans on this club. Richard Jefferson was thought by some to be hungry coming into this season...but we've now witnessed that he has no real fire or drive to be a champion.

You mean like Stephen Jackson.... We missed that boat. We got stuck on the one with Jefferson.

[neboat]

You mean like Stephen Jackson.... We missed that boat. We got stuck on the one with Jefferson.

:bang

[hommeaetage]

The sad part is we're not playing the Nets until March 29. A loss to them would really help right now

[Blackjack]

You mean like Stephen Jackson.... We missed that boat. We got stuck on the one with Jefferson.

Yeah, that dude's hungrier than a Somalian. (his words..)

[Dro210]

lol

Malik was a good energy guy 8-10 years ago.... Then he got old, fat, and rotted his mentality in the rotten apple, all while staying short and believing he has a 15-18ft'r... Don't think that he's the answer.

[HarlemHeat37]

lol

Malik was a good energy guy 8-10 years ago.... Then he got old, fat, and rotted his mentality in the rotten apple, all while staying short and believing he has a 15-18ft'r... Don't think that he's the answer.

The new Malik;)..

None of these guys are the answer, nobody is the answer unless it's Lebron James or Dwight Howard..

It would be nice to see some young guys playing with energy though, instead of these old-ass, slow players that don't do anything useful..I'd rather be losing with Hairston and Ian hustling and playing with energy, as opposed to these guys that can barely move anymore + RJ's soft-ass..

[phxspurfan]

The new Malik;)..

None of these guys are the answer, nobody is the answer unless it's Lebron James or Dwight Howard..

It would be nice to see some young guys playing with energy though, instead of these old-ass, slow players that don't do anything useful..I'd rather be losing with Hairston and Ian hustling and playing with energy, as opposed to these guys that can barely move anymore + RJ's soft-ass..

Damnit...if we only had Scola and Splitter...those guys would be bringing energy, hustle and heart every night. Plus rebounds, blocks and points.

[Obstructed_View]

Damnit...if we only had Hairston and Mahinmi...those guys would be bringing energy, hustle and heart every night. Plus rebounds, blocks and points.

[phxspurfan]

You know what sucks is Coach Phil plays his scrubs almost every night, and he gets value out of them. Josh Powell, Shannon Brown, DJ Mbenga, Mark Madsen, Medvedenko are like Hairston, James White(!), Mahinmi, etc...

Coach Pop needs to hang up on Larry Brown, put down the phone, go outside and see the talent he has in his lineup.

[murpjf88]

It has nothing to do with will or heart. They don't have the talent to compete. Duncan and Manu are no longer capable of carrying the Spurs to victory.

[Capt Bringdown]

We could've extended our run, but we've made a string of bad decisions that have caught up with us. In the end, we're still the only NBA small market team to rack up 4 titles, right? A truly impressive feat considering how much the system is slanted towards preventing that from occurring.

It's a shame because we've could have really made a dent in the PJ/Kobe juggernaut. But in the end, we'll likely come in 2nd place after they retire with 6-7 championships under their belts.

[ploto]

When you believe that anything short of a championship is a failure and you think honestly that you can't win a championship, then you look like the Spurs.

[skinsfan1]

i hate to admit but we are not good at all this year

[Fabbs]

Dick breath.

:lol nicely done.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

after we won the back to back games against the lakers and thunder, i thought the team's confidence would raise and start to glue together as a team, however,everything just fall apart since then...i wonder what happened...

[Budkin]

The sad part is we're not playing the Nets until March 29. A loss to them would really help right now

Oh you just know that's coming. You know it.

[ElNono]

The sad part is we're not playing the Nets until March 29. A loss to them would really help right now

I have tickets for that game.... :depressed

[SenorSpur]

None of us should be surprised that it's come to this.

Pop has worn out the Big Three by FAILING to provide them with adequate young reserve players, who could mimic some of the things they do.

Just remember some of the recent decisions he's made:

Shipping out a 1st round pick for an old, washed-up Kurt Thomas in 2008
Refusing to develop & play Ian Mahinmi, when it's obvious his size and skill were valuable assets to the team
Allowing Drew Gooden to walk away in free agency in favor of signing an older player, less-effective (McDyess)
Choosing to invest in a bunch of slow, spot-up shooters, (Mason, Finley, Bonner), rather than players who could've provided more length, quickness, and athleticism at those positions.
Investing in a slew of players who are all terrible defenders (Jefferson, Finley, Mason, Bonner) but then wondering why his defense has fallen off.
Incorporating this mysterious "small-ball" strategy on a regular basis
Banishing Malik Hairston and James Gist, when perhaps both could've helped the team this season

[Capt Bringdown]

I agree with most of your points except for this:



Allowing Drew Gooden to walk away in free agency in favor of signing an older player, less-effective (McDyess)

I think between those 2 it's a wash. Gooden was a ball hog/black hole and McDyess is just toast.
Pick your poison, both are trash players.

[ElNono]

Shipping out a 1st round pick for an old, washed-up Kurt Thomas in 2008
Allowing Drew Gooden to walk away in free agency in favor of signing an older player, less-effective (McDyess)

Hindsight is 20/20... Dice averaged a double-double just last season...


Choosing to invest in a bunch of slow, spot-up shooters, (Mason, Finley, Bonner), rather than players who could've provided more length, quickness, and athleticism at those positions.
Investing in a slew of players who are all terrible defenders (Jefferson, Finley, Mason, Bonner) but then wondering why his defense has fallen off.


But, but... they space the floor for Timmy!!! Who cares about defense?
/sarcasm

[slayermin]

I don't think they have lost their will to win. But RJ has lost confidence in himself. Without him, they aren't going to make the playoffs. San Antonio isn't LA or Boston so all this media hype about him underachieving will blow over by the all star break. The negativity should quell since all the experts and our own fanbase have pretty much lowered the expectations for this team after last night.

But you know what? That is where the Spurs like it. They want to be counted out. They want to be off everyone's radar. Well, they accomplished that.

And imo, it will take one great game from Jefferson to turn things around. ONE. He's capable of it. I don't know if it's gonna happen but I will be watching the rest of the season to see if it does. I still believe. But acquiring a backup point guard wouldn't hurt. And I'm not trying to knock Hill. He's been great. Just not so great as the backup point at times.

[TFloss32]

I love Pop as much as any Spurs fan but I don't think he can get much of anything out of anyone right now. I've never heard him have such a defeatist attitude as I have in the recent AW article. His inconsistent lineups, refusal to beef up our interior defense by playing Ian (extremely disappointed with how his situation has been handled) and Theo and his insistence on playing guys that aren't making a difference as of right now (i.e. Bonner, Finley) have this team going in so many different directions. Also, when was the last time you saw Pop just lay into one of our players? IMO, he doesn't have that edge anymore and our team is reflection of that.

“We haven’t developed a trust, a communication, a camaraderie as far as executing on the court,” Popovich said. “Which is strange for us. We’ve never had this situation.

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”

[phxspurfan]

Hindsight is 20/20...

This, and


But, but... they space the floor for Timmy!!! Who cares about defense?
/sarcasm

This,

is the strategy that the Spurs have subscribed to for the past decade.

Along with team defense, this offense has always been based on shooting and defense, to go with the solid play of Tim. Even with Tim losing a step, we have still been able to generate quality looks through the half court offense and some good plays. But our flaw this season is execution.

I don't know what stats show this, but it's plain as day when we see wide open corner 3's set up and missed repeatedly by our role players. And for whatever reasons (TP/Manu's summer play, injury, age, personnel), the players haven't been able to do what they've set out to do. That's what Pop gets upset at. It's not that his players aren't listening, it's that they aren't translating the teachings to the court.

If history repeates itself and the system takes a full season to learn for RJ, as it has taken with many a swingman (Jack, Finley, Manu), that Spurs may not be ready to fulfill our potential until a season or two down the line, when Manu is here or not, and when TD remains TD, or not.

Basically the Spurs may be too little too late in making up for past summers of stagnation to succeed in the front office's plan of squeezing out one last championship in the TD Era.