Air Force

[RedsLakers24]

ok guys im 20 years old and still live with my parents, i been thinking of joining the Air Force and move out into my own appartment, i also heard they pay for school, but i dont know how this thing works, can someone tell me about it, i want to attend school also, any info would help, thanx

[ynh]

Dude we are in a war... I would say getting a job and a student loan would be the safest ways to go about moving out and going to school. Up to you though.. but that's a hell of a lot to possibly die for.

Otherwise best of luck. But I wouldn't go in any armed forces right now unless my main reason for doing so is I want to legally shot someone.

[The Reckoning]

meh the few friends i have in the AF havent been deployed (too valuable?) and are paid very well to sit on base.

[ynh]

I'd rather get paid very well to sit on the internet all day at work.. My point being there is a war and there is a possibility. The fact he said Air Force pretty much tells me the dude really doesn't want to go. Yea the airforce is the last to go.. they are also widely considered the pussy version or the military amoungst armed forces. If your going to go go as a freaking Marine. Least you will have some good storys.

Otherwise.. School and a chance to move out (you can't actually be off base for a while) in exchange for signing over your rights and being goverment property for 4 years.. I'd take the job and the student loan.

[TheManFromAcme]

Join the USAF young man and see the world. Serve your country. You won't regret it.

[I. Hustle]

I say go for it. If I would have been able to at your age I would've done it.

[Rogue]

Join the USAF young man and see the world. Serve your country. You won't regret it.
yes, blow the dumbasses off the ground when parrying the villages and towns suspected to be terrorists mansions.

[Drachen]

Well the only advice I have for you is to read EVERYthing before you sign. If the recruiter is promising it (say a 20k signing bonus or something), then make sure that it is on the papers that you are signing. Seriously read every little footnote. If you don't understand it, get copies of all the papers before you sign them, take them home and ask your dad to read them (or whoever you feel can understand them).

With that being said, why not? You are young, presumably single, and you are joining the branch that, unless you are a pilot, you are least likely to go to war and even if you did go, you are less likely to see action. I guess you would have a more logistical type role. Anyway, make sure you do well on your ASFAB. I got a 99 on mine, and they told me I could be whatever I wanted in the military (I was looking at the navy), I chose computers and electronics for my job (I ended up not getting in because of a scar on my cornea). If you qualify for, and choose one of the more "in demand" jobs, you can usually parlay that into a larger signing bonus.

[I. Hustle]

yes, blow the dumbasses off the ground when parrying the villages and towns suspected to be terrorists mansions.

Are you one of the idiots that is against the military? I knew this one moron that tried to discourage everyone from joining the military because he believed in "peace". What kind of idiot do you have to be to believe we would be better off without a military?

[Drachen]

Are you one of the idiots that is against the military? I knew this one moron that tried to discourage everyone from joining the military because he believed in "peace". What kind of idiot do you have to be to believe we would be better off without a military?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I believe we should have substantially less military. We need enough to protect our own borders plus maybe 10% so that if we need to use them in some multinational force we don't have to give up our own protection. Bring all of our soldiers home and let their contract run out. Shutter our overseas bases. If we need to refuel our bombers, then we can contract with the german government to do so. I know this won't happen, but its nice to dream.

[SAGambler]

I'd rather get paid very well to sit on the internet all day at work.. My point being there is a war and there is a possibility. The fact he said Air Force pretty much tells me the dude really doesn't want to go. Yea the airforce is the last to go.. they are also widely considered the pussy version or the military amoungst armed forces. If your going to go go as a freaking Marine. Least you will have some good storys.

Otherwise.. School and a chance to move out (you can't actually be off base for a while) in exchange for signing over your rights and being goverment property for 4 years.. I'd take the job and the student loan.

So I guess you are considered the PUSSY version of our society.

[Rogue]

Are you one of the idiots that is against the military? I knew this one moron that tried to discourage everyone from joining the military because he believed in "peace". What kind of idiot do you have to be to believe we would be better off without a military?
I would admit I were such an idiot that believes a better country would be formed with fewer troops if you somewhat believed the OP was a true american that loves this country and his joining the US army would better this gallant group.

[Drachen]

So I guess you are considered the PUSSY version of our society.

:lol HEY I got the student loan and the degree, and I am going back to get a graduate degree starting in the summer. Does that make me the Uber-pussy version of society?? LOL

[Rogue]

once the OP joined USAF and designated to some missions in mid-east or far-east, he would probably have to aim the guns at the same land where he was bred and raised, as well as the same race of people with identical ethnic characteristics as his, and a 21st century version of Timothy McVeigh is in process of emerging given how dumb and perverted he is.

[Drachen]

I would admit I were such an idiot that believes a better country would be formed with fewer troops if you somewhat believed the OP was a true american that loves this country and his joining the US army would better this gallant group.

This is confusing, do you know if he loves or doesn't love the country, etc? What does this have to do with disliking the concept of the military?

Oh and he is thinking about joining the AF

[I. Hustle]

I would admit I were such an idiot that believes a better country would be formed with fewer troops if you somewhat believed the OP was a true american that loves this country and his joining the US army would better this gallant group.

Fewer troops is different from no troops which is what I was talking about. I believe that we should always be well prepared so I always encourage anyone thinking about joining.
As far as his loving his country, I can't speak for him. I will say however though that my brother, who is active duty in Iraq, decided to join as a way of paying for school and getting paid and out of trouble he was getting himself into. Now he has been in for about 6 years and is going to re-up and stay in longer. He enjoys doing what he is doing and continues to climb in rank and believes in what he is doing. For all we know the OP could get caught up in the military lifestyle and not only make something positive out of it but contribute.

[Rogue]

This is confusing, do you know if he loves or doesn't love the country, etc? What does this have to do with disliking the concept of the military?

Oh and he is thinking about joining the AF
It easily tells from his dumbness that he isn't someone native in America, he only immigrated into this country for better healthcare, better education etc... Unless he's the real life version or even the prototype of Forrest Gump.

[Soul_Patch]

I have worked for the Air Force for the past 10 years. I wish i would have joined when i was younger, i was close to doing it, but didnt. I really wish i would have.

Talk to a recruiter, go to http://www.airforce.com/ and read about what kind of jobs are out there and what they offer / dont offer.

There are a lot of decent bonuses right now for enlistment.

I say do it, you will not regret it one bit. You will get a ton of training, get to take advantage of the GI Bill for school, free medical insurance, and be looked on 1000% more favorably for jobs when you get out, + all of the retirement benefits if you stay in long enough to qualify...

[Drachen]

You have to excuse me, but I dont generally pay attention to people's names when I am reading posts, but where do you get the idea that he is dumb, or an immigrant? Is it from other threads? I don't see anything in this thread other than some young kid trying to weigh some options. Also, if he is an immigrant, and wants better healthcare/education, who cares unless he is an illegal immigrant. He has an end (education) and sees a means to get it (military) and wants to know the consequences of that decision lest he should look for another means to his end.

[Rogue]

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I believe we should have substantially less military. We need enough to protect our own borders plus maybe 10% so that if we need to use them in some multinational force we don't have to give up our own protection. Bring all of our soldiers home and let their contract run out. Shutter our overseas bases. If we need to refuel our bombers, then we can contract with the german government to do so. I know this won't happen, but its nice to dream.
I'm not pushing the military at the front of blames TBH, it's just some of those retards in office who are navigating American politically further and further away from European allies and even make themselves alienated to Europeans IMHO.

Less military means the severer vulnerabilities of being the target for another terrorist attack, or some fascist invasion in the worst case. Americans love this country so much none of them would like to see their beloved country being assimilated to the shitty ones and all the people being forced to learn some shitty languages and cultures etc... Even with the current hold of armies, pentagon still feels kind of shorthanded with the operations in Afghanistan.

[Rogue]

You have to excuse me, but I dont generally pay attention to people's names when I am reading posts, but where do you get the idea that he is dumb, or an immigrant? Is it from other threads? I don't see anything in this thread other than some young kid trying to weigh some options. Also, if he is an immigrant, and wants better healthcare/education, who cares unless he is an illegal immigrant. He has an end (education) and sees a means to get it (military) and wants to know the consequences of that decision lest he should look for another means to his end.
Immigrants are nowadays only joining the army because they want the accession to their US citizenship that would make them feel more like people rather than lodgers living in this country, with all other issues being secondary. Either you're roughly at the same wavelength with OP or you should have noticed his dumbness and stupidity which look both crystal clear to me TBH.

I'm not here repressing the precious desire of a youngster about serving his country, but I'm just showing my concerns related to this issue. Military recruiting is surely not a personal issue or a comfortable route for some individual to earn something he cannot achieve any other way. US troops are unarguably the greatest of the world but I'd doubt the greatness of them if one day this once-heroic group was diffusely alloyed with mercenaries like what the OP wants to be.

[Drachen]

I'm not pushing the military at the front of blames TBH, it's just some of those retards in office who are navigating American politically further and further away from European allies and even make themselves alienated to Europeans IMHO.

Less military means the severer vulnerabilities of being the target for another terrorist attack, or some fascist invasion in the worst case. Americans love this country so much none of them would like to see their beloved country being assimilated to the shitty ones and all the people being forced to learn some shitty languages and cultures etc... Even with the current hold of armies, pentagon still feels kind of shorthanded with the operations in Afghanistan.

That is why I said cut the military to the level that we need to protect our country and do only that. I even said to add 10% so that we could send some troops as part of a multinational force if necessary to do anything. You say we are shorthanded in Afghanistan? Get them outta there, and we won't be short handed anymore, we will be gone. If we are not walking around blowing up home after home, there will be fewer people mad enough at us to become terrorists.

Also, are you drunk, or an immigrant? Your english in some cases is very hard to understand. I don't care about grammar or spelling (though there are some mistakes there too), but once you become hard to understand...

[Rogue]

Fewer troops is different from no troops which is what I was talking about. I believe that we should always be well prepared so I always encourage anyone thinking about joining.
As far as his loving his country, I can't speak for him. I will say however though that my brother, who is active duty in Iraq, decided to join as a way of paying for school and getting paid and out of trouble he was getting himself into. Now he has been in for about 6 years and is going to re-up and stay in longer. He enjoys doing what he is doing and continues to climb in rank and believes in what he is doing. For all we know the OP could get caught up in the military lifestyle and not only make something positive out of it but contribute.

why not adopt crips and bloods also into the range of recruitment then? I'm sure every crip and blood would be more than glad to quit the hoodratting stuffs and become one of american idols if a chance is given. It's just because those gangstas often live under pressing poverty that forces them to join the gangs to earn their livings, or to protect themselves from harm at the very least. If you're to recruit some mercenaries into the troops, I would rathen them be crips/bloods than a mentally handicapped immigrant like OP.

[Rogue]

That is why I said cut the military to the level that we need to protect our country and do only that. I even said to add 10% so that we could send some troops as part of a multinational force if necessary to do anything. You say we are shorthanded in Afghanistan? Get them outta there, and we won't be short handed anymore, we will be gone. If we are not walking around blowing up home after home, there will be fewer people mad enough at us to become terrorists.

Also, are you drunk, or an immigrant? Your english in some cases is very hard to understand. I don't care about grammar or spelling (though there are some mistakes there too), but once you become hard to understand...
That's exactly why troops shouldn't be retreated yet more of them need to be redeployed and sent there IMHO. You're currently stuck in a war hence it's not a time of choice but commitment, as you have already get your hands into it since it ever started. More troops recruited means steadier control of the situation, which basically means the guarantee for a win.

BTW If i'm making my writings too complex for you to digest well, then I'm glad to make them a little bit simpler but honestly I don't think there is need to navigate the discussion to the personal information of my humble self. I'm not and will probably never be such an immigrant like what the OP is and is striving to quit being by earning himself the citizenship that he actually doesn't deserve.

[Wild Cobra]

The Air Force has a pretty good quality of life, and after a few years of service, the pay gets pretty good actually.

I won't pretend to know how the schooling vs. possible deployment is, but if you can get the Air Force to pay for 4 years of college and serve as an officer afterwords, it's worth it. I think the contractual hitch for something like that is 10 years though. I left the military in 1992, so things have changed since. Find out and know.

I would suggest not joining if you are mostly liberal in your viewpoints. In my opinion, conservative minded people do better in the military than liberal minded folks.

When I left in 1992, I was married with 2 children. My standard of living dropped because to have the same net income after taxes, I would have to make about $18.50/hr. Without looking at the current pay scale, I don't know the differences, but after a few years of serving, it's going to be like a $20+ per hr. job. Probably $30+.

[CubanSucks]

I would admit I were such an idiot that believes a better country would be formed with fewer troops if you somewhat believed the OP was a true american that loves this country and his joining the US army would better this gallant group.

When in history has this ever been true?

[Drachen]

That's exactly why troops shouldn't be retreated yet more of them need to be redeployed and sent there IMHO. You're currently stuck in a war hence it's not a time of choice but commitment, as you have already get your hands into it since it ever started. More troops recruited means steadier control of the situation, which basically means the guarantee for a win.

BTW If i'm making my writings too complex for you to digest well, then I'm glad to make them a little bit simpler but honestly I don't think there is need to navigate the discussion to the personal information of my humble self. I'm not and will probably never be such an immigrant like what the OP is and is striving to quit being by earning himself the citizenship that he actually doesn't deserve.


Your writing isn't complex, it is just flat wrong in some cases (i.e. accession, instead of access a few posts up). As far as the wavelength of the OP I guess you could say that we are on similar wavelengths, at least as far as what can be derived from his post in this thread. Namely, we both have goals, and we both seek out options that will help us achieve those goals. Once we have those options, we weigh the pros and cons of each option before deciding on a path.

Also, do you know from prior talks with him that he is an immigrant, because there is no alternate universe in which one can derive that from what was typed. As far as the problem you have with "mercenaries", there aren't many military members who, in times of peace, forgo their paycheck, so to an extent they are all mercenaries. Also, many (not all) of those who leave the military leave for the promise of more money in the private sector, proving that they were mercenaries. You say that we have "unarguably" the best military in the world. Yet you say that the way that they do business (and have done for decades), is conducive to a crappy, uninterested military. A small contradiction, I think. Or proof that regardless of a person's own motivations for joining the military, that they can be trained to be the best in the world (I guess you could say that this is an affirmation of the rank of the military's training programs). Be proud of this.

As far as immigrants joining for citizenship, who cares. 1) If it's legal, great. I am glad they are going about it the correct way. 2) If they want US citizenship, there is obviously something they like about the country. If they like the country, they are likely going to want to defend whatever reason they came here for. What better way for a person to do this than by joining the military. They are probably more gung ho about it than many since they like the US so much that they endured whatever hardships were necessary to get here (and to do it legally).

[Cyrano]

My advice is to talk to service members to help you make your decision. My son is in the Air Force, and has been deployed to the middle east twice. He's been in now for almost eleven years, and is a Tech sergeant stationed at Lackland. Both my wife and I are Army veterans, in fact, that's how we met many, many years ago. My father was Coast Guard during WWII. Her father was Navy during the same period. All of us have been proud to have served.
That said, the military isn't for everyone. Discipline can be rigid, and many things you may take for granted can get you in trouble ( for instance, speaking your mind openly without restraint can be considered insubordination and punished accordingly).
So far as training is concerned, be careful with your choice of career field. Any occupation you can think of (perhaps I should say LEGITIMATE career field) is represented within the military. Keep in mind that should you not be able to keep up with the training academically, you may be reassigned to another specialty according to the needs of the service. For instance, many of the cooks I met had washed out of other schools.
Some careers have little application outside the military. I did my first hitch as a Russian Linguist with the old Army Security Agency, then cross trained as an Operating Room technician in my second enlistment. Somehow, there weren't that many openings for Russian speaking scrub techs in the civilian world.
Personally, I would encourage you to join. You may find that you like it enough to remain past your initial enlistment, and if you don't, you will still have the training and experience you gained while you were in, and the benefits you earned.

[Drachen]

My advice is to talk to service members to help you make your decision. My son is in the Air Force, and has been deployed to the middle east twice. He's been in now for almost eleven years, and is a Tech sergeant stationed at Lackland. Both my wife and I are Army veterans, in fact, that's how we met many, many years ago. My father was Coast Guard during WWII. Her father was Navy during the same period. All of us have been proud to have served.
That said, the military isn't for everyone. Discipline can be rigid, and many things you may take for granted can get you in trouble ( for instance, speaking your mind openly without restraint can be considered insubordination and punished accordingly).
So far as training is concerned, be careful with your choice of career field. Any occupation you can think of (perhaps I should say LEGITIMATE career field) is represented within the military. Keep in mind that should you not be able to keep up with the training academically, you may be reassigned to another specialty according to the needs of the service. For instance, many of the cooks I met had washed out of other schools.
Some careers have little application outside the military. I did my first hitch as a Russian Linguist with the old Army Security Agency, then cross trained as an Operating Room technician in my second enlistment. Somehow, there weren't that many openings for Russian speaking scrub techs in the civilian world.
Personally, I would encourage you to join. You may find that you like it enough to remain past your initial enlistment, and if you don't, you will still have the training and experience you gained while you were in, and the benefits you earned.


^this guy has the best post of the whole thread. Bravo.

[TheManFromAcme]

Nontheless young man, pay no attention to these fellows in here. Join the USAF. You'll learn leadership, teamwork and other intangibles that will help you in life.
Don't get stuck going to these liberal schools and poisoning your mind.
Your better off going in instead of staying at home smoking weed, playing with your X-box and reading liberal infested literature.

Again, pay no attention to these guys in here. War or no War, do the right thing.
:toast

[RedsLakers24]

wait i need to learn everything, i talk to my counseler about this but didnt get enough info, when sign does this mean i get paid?, and how much? what does it mean a 4 yr contract, where will i live? and need everything, every info, thanx

[Cyrano]

Again, pay no attention to these guys in here. War or no War, do the right thing.
:toast


Did you even bother to read my post at all?

[macdude06]

wait i need to learn everything, i talk to my counseler about this but didnt get enough info, when sign does this mean i get paid?, and how much? what does it mean a 4 yr contract, where will i live? and need everything, every info, thanx

Ive been in the air force 18 months now and i love it. You wont live in an apartment until you are either married or a SrA which is about 22 months-28 months..You will live in a Dorm which is free and meet alot of new people and also they pay for your food..So everyday the dining hall is free use. Just make sure you pick a job that you will like..research and dont sign anyhting you are not comfortable with. Any questions let me know..

ATC!

[Cyrano]

1. You get paid starting when you report for active duty. This includes your basic training period.

2. How much you get paid depends on your rank and any allowances such as separate rations and housing allowance. Enlistment bonuses will depend on your occupational specialty.

3. A four year contract means you are obligated to a period of service of four years. This means you will be discharged four years from the date of entry to the service unless you screw up and get discharged for disciplinary reasons, or are medically discharged.
The contract also guarantees you a specific school or schools. If, however, you cannot satisfactorily complete the training, you still have to fulfill your four year obligation, in a specialty selected based on the needs of the service.
I would recommend that you take the battery of tests (used to be called ASVAB) to determine what training you qualify for. Taking the tests won't obligate you to enlist. (at least it didn't used to).

[TheManFromAcme]

Did you even bother to read my post at all?

Cyrano,

Nothing directed at you. You actually had a pretty cool post. Read the previous ones and then you'll know. :toast

[Drachen]

1. You get paid starting when you report for active duty. This includes your basic training period.

2. How much you get paid depends on your rank and any allowances such as separate rations and housing allowance. Enlistment bonuses will depend on your occupational specialty.

3. A four year contract means you are obligated to a period of service of four years. This means you will be discharged four years from the date of entry to the service unless you screw up and get discharged for disciplinary reasons, or are medically discharged.
The contract also guarantees you a specific school or schools. If, however, you cannot satisfactorily complete the training, you still have to fulfill your four year obligation, in a specialty selected based on the needs of the service.
I would recommend that you take the battery of tests (used to be called ASVAB) to determine what training you qualify for. Taking the tests won't obligate you to enlist. (at least it didn't used to).

Re: Enlistment bonus, rank, pay, etc.

I know I already said this but be sure to read (and understand) what you are signing. Make sure that what they are promising you is explicitly stated in the contract.

Oh, and yeah, ASVAB, sorry about not spelling that correctly.

[macdude06]

If you wanna learn alot about the air force go to Afforums.com
Pretty much every question has been answered..

[RedsLakers24]

with what they pay me, would i be able to afford a place to live?

[Cyrano]

Since you will be living in a barracks until you complete your training (most of the time, unless you are married), you can save your money for deposit and move-in expenses. How long your training will last depends on your choice of schools, ranging from just a few months to well over a year. I would recommend that you live on post until you are finished with your training, since most of the courses are very intense, and you will need to conserve your energy for your classroom work. ( the better you do in training, the better chance for really good assignment afterward).
The current pay chart looks like:

2010 Basic Enlisted Military Pay Chart
Pay Grade
Years of Service
Less than 2
Over 2
Over 3
Over 4
Over 6
E-9

E-8

E-7
2602
2839
2948
3092
3204
E-6
2250
2475
2585
2690
2801
E-5
2062
2199
2306
2414
2584
E-4
1889
1986
2094
2200
2294
E-3
1706
1813
1923
1923
1923
E-2
1622
1622
1622
1622
1622
E-1
1447
1447
1447
1447
1447
E-1 with less than 4 months of service
1339

As you can see, starting pay for an E-1 is $1339, with a raise after four months to $1447. Once promoted, your pay will increase. Also, this is base pay, and does not include any allowances. Remember, you will not need to worry about health insurance while in the service, nor will you pay rent or meals while living in the barracks. How much you can save depends on your party habits....and while in training, you shouldn't be partying a great deal.
It's important to remember that hangovers while on duty can expose you to disciplinary action.
Another thing to bear in mind is whether you have any type of arrest record. This becomes very important if you want to enter a job that requires a security clearance.

[RedsLakers24]

Since you will be living in a barracks until you complete your training (most of the time, unless you are married), you can save your money for deposit and move-in expenses. How long your training will last depends on your choice of schools, ranging from just a few months to well over a year. I would recommend that you live on post until you are finished with your training, since most of the courses are very intense, and you will need to conserve your energy for your classroom work. ( the better you do in training, the better chance for really good assignment afterward).
The current pay chart looks like:

2010 Basic Enlisted Military Pay Chart
Pay Grade
Years of Service
Less than 2
Over 2
Over 3
Over 4
Over 6
E-9

E-8

E-7
2602
2839
2948
3092
3204
E-6
2250
2475
2585
2690
2801
E-5
2062
2199
2306
2414
2584
E-4
1889
1986
2094
2200
2294
E-3
1706
1813
1923
1923
1923
E-2
1622
1622
1622
1622
1622
E-1
1447
1447
1447
1447
1447
E-1 with less than 4 months of service
1339

As you can see, starting pay for an E-1 is $1339, with a raise after four months to $1447. Once promoted, your pay will increase. Also, this is base pay, and does not include any allowances. Remember, you will not need to worry about health insurance while in the service, nor will you pay rent or meals while living in the barracks. How much you can save depends on your party habits....and while in training, you shouldn't be partying a great deal.
It's important to remember that hangovers while on duty can expose you to disciplinary action.
Another thing to bear in mind is whether you have any type of arrest record. This becomes very important if you want to enter a job that requires a security clearance.

Well i have a dog, does this mean i have to give it away? and for records and stuff, im clean, i have never been pulled over or anything, never done anything wrong, i havent even gotten a parking ticket or anything

[Rogue]

Your writing isn't complex, it is just flat wrong in some cases (i.e. accession, instead of access a few posts up).
Yes I'm slightly retarded and I want to join the army so that the government would pay the bills for my education. But I am not very sure whether I should or I should not do it, what is your advice? While you were defending someone by derogating another on the minimal error of a word, you're ignoring the fact your client could possibly doesn't even know such a word as access. And presumably you don't get paid for whatever you're done on his behalf. [/QUOTE]

As far as the wavelength of the OP I guess you could say that we are on similar wavelengths, at least as far as what can be derived from his post in this thread. Namely, we both have goals, and we both seek out options that will help us achieve those goals. Once we have those options, we weigh the pros and cons of each option before deciding on a path.
There's no problem that you both have goals and ambitions, which IMHO are worth admiring and appreciating but before you had ever start the topic about army, there should have been a sense in your mind that it's quite a serious deal. I'm not encouraging him and you to remain pussies staying home and it's not my obligation to give you any advice or command, but you are the person responsible for your own security/safety(whichever you think fits better here) as an ambitious youngster above the age of 18. [/QUOTE]


Also, do you know from prior talks with him that he is an immigrant, because there is no alternate universe in which one can derive that from what was typed. As far as the problem you have with "mercenaries", there aren't many military members who, in times of peace, forgo their paycheck, so to an extent they are all mercenaries. Also, many (not all) of those who leave the military leave for the promise of more money in the private sector, proving that they were mercenaries. You say that we have "unarguably" the best military in the world. Yet you say that the way that they do business (and have done for decades), is conducive to a crappy, uninterested military. A small contradiction, I think. (I guess you could say that this is an affirmation of the rank of the military's training programs). Be proud of this.

Your risking your life when serving in the military troops and you claimed that a soldier only does all these because of the paycheck only? There are many other businesses where you can easily earn thousands of times bigger money with the same rate of risk or less. e.x. you can easily earn a whole lot of money by smuggling drugs, or extorting ransoms by kidnapping. You're serving in the army because of the sacred love for this country, which has to prevail whatever else.




As far as immigrants joining for citizenship, who cares. 1) If it's legal, great. I am glad they are going about it the correct way. 2) If they want US citizenship, there is obviously something they like about the country. If they like the country, they are likely going to want to defend whatever reason they came here for. What better way for a person to do this than by joining the military. They are probably more gung ho about it than many since they like the US so much that they endured whatever hardships were necessary to get here (and to do it legally).
With a total population of roughly 350 MILLION, I don't think the country of United States still has such an exigent need for immigrants as the situation in 18th century, 19th century and early 20th century. Even if joining the troops is a route for folks to turn noble, such a chance should be given to our nigga brothers at first with immigrants/trashes second/third/fourth... You're talking about extending the military recruitment to immigrants and mercenaries, who IMHO don't love America a bit more than those gangstas do. As the limited chances are relentlessly given to immigrants, you're quite aware that they're blocked to millions of young niggas who were born in American soil and grew up there and are often forced or induced to join the gangs for various reasons.

Or proof that regardless of a person's own motivations for joining the military, that they can be trained to be the best in the world

Then why didn't Spurs forfeit their No.1 draft pick back in 1997 and sign someone else with minimum, and train him into the same level of player as Duncan?

[scampers]

Unless you're married, which would allow you to get your own place, you will be forced to live in the dorms for your first few years. No pets allowed, unfortunately.

I spent 4 years in the Air Force and I can't say too many bad things about my experience. Your experience will, of course, vary. All in all, if you can deal with paperwork and a competative work environment (read: douchebags who think they are better than you and will stop at nothing to stab you in the back if it's in their favor), the Air Force can be very good to you. Free health care, free housing (and even if you end up living off base, you get a generous housing allowance), free food (or allowances for food), free college (to an extent--and the new GI Bill is VERY NICE), etc. The pay may look bad at first glance, but consider what you are NOT paying for. It is extremely easy to do 4 years in the military and come out in very, very good financial shape. It's important that YOU take advantage of what it has to offer. Don't blow all your money on sports cars and rediculous amount of uneccesary crap like so many people do. Save your money, spend what you need, and you can make a good living. And even if you do 4 years, use the new GI Bill which essentially allows you to make money off from going to school.

Just be prepared to a.) jump through a lot of seemingly pointless and frustrating hoops, b.) deal with complete idiots that have authority over you, and c.) deployments. Air Force deployments aren't bad unless you are a flyer or special forces, but you should still be prepared to be put into an uncomfortable situation far from home. If you want to join, be in shape, do good on your ASVAB, and don't let your recruiter pressure you into doing things that do not benefit you (6 year contracts are BAD).

[Rogue]

If we are not walking around blowing up home after home, there will be fewer people mad enough at us to become terrorists.

[exstatic]

wait i need to learn everything, i talk to my counseler about this but didnt get enough info, when sign does this mean i get paid?, and how much? what does it mean a 4 yr contract, where will i live? and need everything, every info, thanx

You'll likely live in the barracks for 3+ years until you make rank. It's not like Army barracks, more like a college dorm room on most AF bases. The location is up to the USAF. You could be close to home, or in Korea, or North Dakota. You can go to school when the mission permits it. I couldn't really attend my first two years because I was on rotating shifts every couple of weeks.

The thing to recognize is that it's not about you, it's about the mission, which ALWAYS comes first. Your first post came off like this was some part time gig to get you through school. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a whole different way of life, 24/7/365.

[scampers]

To touch a little bit more on where you will be living...

In Basic Training (about 8 1/2 weeks) you will live in a basic dorm (barracks--but they are called dorms in the AF) which basically consists of two large bays with a bunch of beds (many bunk beds).

In Tech School (job training), you will likely live in a college dorm style room. You'll share it with someone else, and will also be sharing the bathroom. You'll be here anywhere from a few weeks to a year, depending on which job you have.

Once you get out of training, you'll be required to live in on base housing (dorms) for a couple years unless you get married. The only way you would be approved to live off base early in your career while not married is if your base housing has an overpopulation issue. It's rare.
Dorms aren't too bad, though. The standard (keep in mind some bases are taking awhile to get to standard) is to have a private bedroom, share a living area with another person, and a bathroom with 3 people There's still a lot of older style dorms out there though, so it's really a crap shoot as to what type of room you get. Generally speaking, they try to get you a private bedroom but there is no guarantee.

If your goal is to have an apartment all to your own, the military is not the place for you. It's not that hard of a comprimise to make, but it's up to you.

[Wild Cobra]

As you can see, starting pay for an E-1 is $1339, with a raise after four months to $1447. Once promoted, your pay will increase. Also, this is base pay, and does not include any allowances.
Unless congress has changed the law, you only pay taxes on your base pay. When you are authorized to live off base, you will get adequate housing allowance, separate rations (food cost) and COLA based on the cost of living where you are stationed. Like I pointed out earlier, the equivalent $/hr is more than what is apparent. That $1339 is a little over $16k, and will be about $14k after taxes, social security, and medicare. That gives you in excess of $1,000 per month with all your expenses taken care of by the military. I suggest contributing the maximum 15% into the TSP program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan). Because the 15% will come off your taxable income, that annual $2400+ will be about $1700 less in annual net income.

[Drachen]

Yes I'm slightly retarded and I want to join the army so that the government would pay the bills for my education. But I am not very sure whether I should or I should not do it, what is your advice? While you were defending someone by derogating another on the minimal error of a word, you're ignoring the fact your client could possibly doesn't even know such a word as access. And presumably you don't get paid for whatever you're done on his behalf.

Well the first sentence sounds like a personal problem, but if you want to join, *meet the requirements, and *serve your duty honorably and in a satisfactory manner, you will most certainly have earned those benefits and can use them. The only reason I even brought up your bad grammar and incorrect choice of words was that there was nothing from the OPs first post which you could use to infer that he was an immigrant. Your struggles with English (of which accession was only one example), on the other hand, are far more indicative of one who doesn't have a very good grasp on the language. From this, one could derive that you are an immigrant.


There's no problem that you both have goals and ambitions, which IMHO are worth admiring and appreciating but before you had ever start the topic about army, there should have been a sense in your mind that it's quite a serious deal. I'm not encouraging him and you to remain pussies staying home and it's not my obligation to give you any advice or command, but you are the person responsible for your own security/safety(whichever you think fits better here) as an ambitious youngster above the age of 18.

You admire goals, check. This is a serious decision, check. You don't want to give advice, check (though not obvious by your other posts).


Your risking your life when serving in the military troops and you claimed that a soldier only does all these because of the paycheck only? There are many other businesses where you can easily earn thousands of times bigger money with the same rate of risk or less. e.x. you can easily earn a whole lot of money by smuggling drugs, or extorting ransoms by kidnapping. You're serving in the army because of the sacred love for this country, which has to prevail whatever else.

Well I never said paycheck. I also never said that there are any troops that go in just for the benefits. I said that there are many different motivations that spur many different people to come to the same decision. The decision to join the military is no different. Paycheck may be an important part, desire for discipline may be another, benefits could be another, etc.


With a total population of roughly 350 MILLION, I don't think the country of United States still has such an exigent need for immigrants as the situation in 18th century, 19th century and early 20th century. Even if joining the troops is a route for folks to turn noble, such a chance should be given to our nigga brothers at first with immigrants/trashes second/third/fourth... You're talking about extending the military recruitment to immigrants and mercenaries, who IMHO don't love America a bit more than those gangstas do. As the limited chances are relentlessly given to immigrants, you're quite aware that they're blocked to millions of young niggas who were born in American soil and grew up there and are often forced or induced to join the gangs for various reasons.

You and I agree that we don't need low-skilled immigrants (while I think that attracting high-skilled immigrants is still a benefit to our country), though this isn't necessarily part of the OP's conversation and you were the only one who brought it up, out of nowhere I might add. If you don't like this write your congressman and ask him/her to begin the process of changing the law as it is still a legal avenue for immigration. As far as "gangstas" are concerned, I don't think they would qualify for admittance if they have a record, if they don't and they meet all other requirements they are more than welcome to join, there is no barrier that disallows their ambition. Oh, and no one is forced to do anything, it is a personal choice.



Then why didn't Spurs forfeit their No.1 draft pick back in 1997 and sign someone else with minimum, and train him into the same level of player as Duncan?

The Spurs training program was never introduced to the conversation, the military's was the focus.

Question for others: I have to ask, is this an obvious troll job? I know there are ignorant people around the world which is why I treat this seriously, but I don't play games and am not a super frequent poster (look at my join date, and post count) so I don't really care to learn the skills to recognize people who have nothing better to do in their lives than play games on the internet.

[Cyrano]

Well, I was treating this as a legitimate request for information, until I saw the question "do I have to give away my dog?"
Silly question, and considering the recent trend of threads, makes me wonder if this is yet another Mouse alter-ego.
Still, I'll try to give straight information in the hopes of helping.
No, you don't have to give away your dog, but you will have to find someone to take care of it while you are away. Since you still live with your parents, it seems that this is pretty well taken care of. No, there are no pets in the barracks.
Now, about what I mean by "barracks".
I was in the Army back in the 70's and 80's. In basic training, we were quartered in the old-fashioned open-bay barracks that were built during WWII, and looked similar to the barracks shown in "Full Metal Jacket". When I got to language school, we were in two-man rooms, with a locker-room style shower/latrine on each floor. When I went to crypto training at Goodfellow AFB, we were in what they called "quads", four two-man rooms with a common day room and two bathrooms. When I reached Berlin, I was for a short time living in barracks that had previously been occupied by Hitler's SS bodyguards, which had been built in the late 1800's as part of Germany's officer training academy.

[AFBlue]

You'll likely live in the barracks for 3+ years until you make rank. It's not like Army barracks, more like a college dorm room on most AF bases. The location is up to the USAF. You could be close to home, or in Korea, or North Dakota. You can go to school when the mission permits it. I couldn't really attend my first two years because I was on rotating shifts every couple of weeks.

The thing to recognize is that it's not about you, it's about the mission, which ALWAYS comes first. Your first post came off like this was some part time gig to get you through school. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a whole different way of life, 24/7/365.

Solid post...

People have varying reasons for joining the military, but the most important thing to realize before going in is that it's more than just a job. Yes, the Air Force has a more "corporate" mentality than the other services, but you still get can still get called into work at 4 in the morning to participate in an exercise...and despite what some others have said, the Air Force is alot more mobile these days. In fact, the Air Force is backfilling some critical shortfalls from the other services in basic areas (base security, convoy duty, etc.) overseas.

There has been some good advice on this thread (except for the guy ranting about baby-killing). Seek advice from current Air Force members and veterans...they should be able to give you the best picture of what Air Force life is like and what you're likely signing up for. A guy like macdude who just enlisted should be able to give you the "freshest" take.

My experience has been as an officer (ROTC-through-college route) with a four-year initial commitment and partial scholarship. If you want that perspective, PM me.

[chode_regulator]

The Air Force has a pretty good quality of life, and after a few years of service, the pay gets pretty good actually.

I won't pretend to know how the schooling vs. possible deployment is, but if you can get the Air Force to pay for 4 years of college and serve as an officer afterwords, it's worth it. I think the contractual hitch for something like that is 10 years though. I left the military in 1992, so things have changed since. Find out and know.

I would suggest not joining if you are mostly liberal in your viewpoints. In my opinion, conservative minded people do better in the military than liberal minded folks.

When I left in 1992, I was married with 2 children. My standard of living dropped because to have the same net income after taxes, I would have to make about $18.50/hr. Without looking at the current pay scale, I don't know the differences, but after a few years of serving, it's going to be like a $20+ per hr. job. Probably $30+.

I made the equivalent of 60/yr according to the military statistics they use. This included my housing/food/flight pay as well as insurance. I guess the more kids you had the more you could "make" since you would still get the insurance although as far as actual take home pay it's not like welfare where the more kids you have the more you get (not saying this is what WC was implying, just trying to be clear for someone who may not know and reads this).
I never figured out the hourly pay as it would have been too depressing. Easily 50 hrs/week stateside, closer to 60, and when deployed well over 100/wk. But I think to make 60/yr as a civilian it's like 30/hr. My actual take home pay was alot less than 60 though.

[chode_regulator]

You'll likely live in the barracks for 3+ years until you make rank. It's not like Army barracks, more like a college dorm room on most AF bases. The location is up to the USAF. You could be close to home, or in Korea, or North Dakota. You can go to school when the mission permits it. I couldn't really attend my first two years because I was on rotating shifts every couple of weeks.

The thing to recognize is that it's not about you, it's about the mission, which ALWAYS comes first. Your first post came off like this was some part time gig to get you through school. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a whole different way of life, 24/7/365.
Barracks life is the shit. Wish I had spent more time in the barracks. Way better than college dorms.
Even if you join primarily for school benefits its cool. Just know its serious and be ready to bend over backwards.

Unless congress has changed the law, you only pay taxes on your base pay. When you are authorized to live off base, you will get adequate housing allowance, separate rations (food cost) and COLA based on the cost of living where you are stationed. Like I pointed out earlier, the equivalent $/hr is more than what is apparent. That $1339 is a little over $16k, and will be about $14k after taxes, social security, and medicare. That gives you in excess of $1,000 per month with all your expenses taken care of by the military. I suggest contributing the maximum 15% into the TSP program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan). Because the 15% will come off your taxable income, that annual $2400+ will be about $1700 less in annual net income.

You are correct. I never paid more than like 10% in taxes and it's only on base pay. Some places th ough don't pay enough to cover housing etc though, like San Diego from what I hear though I was never actually stationed there.
I wish I had contributed into the TSP but was too short sighted for it. Also with the new GI Bill out now you save the 1200 you would have had to put into that since it's now free.

[spursncowboys]

Dude we are in a war... I would say getting a job and a student loan would be the safest ways to go about moving out and going to school. Up to you though.. but that's a hell of a lot to possibly die for.

Otherwise best of luck. But I wouldn't go in any armed forces right now unless my main reason for doing so is I want to legally shot someone. the fobs where the af are located, typically are pretty safe.

Well the only advice I have for you is to read EVERYthing before you sign. If the recruiter is promising it (say a 20k signing bonus or something), then make sure that it is on the papers that you are signing. Seriously read every little footnote. If you don't understand it, get copies of all the papers before you sign them, take them home and ask your dad to read them (or whoever you feel can understand them).
hell yes. try and get someone in the af or had been in to the recruiter and get everything signed. None of the stuff you sign with the recruiter matters. It is when you go to meps and do the paper work there. But everything guaranteed by the recruiter should be in paper. EVERYTHING.

With that being said, why not? You are young, presumably single, and you are joining the branch that, unless you are a pilot, you are least likely to go to war and even if you did go, you are less likely to see action. I guess you would have a more logistical type role. Anyway, make sure you do well on your ASFAB. i think in the af, they will pick your job, so the higher the asvab, the better.

Talk to a recruiter, go to http://www.airforce.com/ and read about what kind of jobs are out there and what they offer / dont offer.

There are a lot of decent bonuses right now for enlistment.

I say do it, you will not regret it one bit. You will get a ton of training, get to take advantage of the GI Bill for school, free medical insurance, and be looked on 1000% more favorably for jobs when you get out, + all of the retirement benefits if you stay in long enough to qualify... about.com has great info for military.

Why the Chairforce? Is there a particular reason? The living is better than the Army. Food, housing, uniforms, barracks, and where you work is better. Also you will get extra pay if you work, for instance, without air conditioning. In the Army, usually, you get promoted faster which is higher pay. ALot more MOS's in the Army and more options to do different things. You have to be a douch bag af Plus the AF doesn't have Cav Scouts. The AF does shorter deployments (6 mo) but more often than Army. I'm in the Army, so I had to do my "ours is better" .

[Rogue]

If we are not walking



around blowing up home after home,



there will be fewer people



mad enough at us to


become terrorists.


As you're so absorbed to these trifle details, here I've got some pieces of statements you scrawled up, that I believe would help figure what kind of person you are.

[thispego]

wait i need to learn everything, i talk to my counseler about this but didnt get enough info, when sign does this mean i get paid?, and how much? what does it mean a 4 yr contract, where will i live? and need everything, every info, thanx

rofl :lmao oh yeah, you'd be perfect in our armed forces :lmao

hey one thing you might want to consider is they don't let you wear colored v-necks in the military. just something to think about

[RedsLakers24]

rofl :lmao oh yeah, you'd be perfect in our armed forces :lmao

hey one thing you might want to consider is they don't let you wear colored v-necks in the military. just something to think about

shut up, i dont look that bad, plus i think im build for this, i played sports my whole life, i work out, im 6'4 and weight 185, i just need more conditioning, plus im really interested in going, my friends are in it and it made me think about it

[chode_regulator]

hey one thing you might want to consider is they don't let you wear colored v-necks in the military. just something to think about
chode bloaded

[Rogue]

shut up, i dont look that bad, plus i think im build for this, i played sports my whole life, i work out, im 6'4 and weight 185, i just need more conditioning, plus im really interested in going, my friends are in it and it made me think about it
yeah you're so manly that even some males are sexually attracted to you, like the retard who tried hard to defend you against my criticisms about your dumbness. But sadly you just let your homie eat crow by posting the shit you posted.

[ynh]

So I guess you are considered the PUSSY version of our society.


Why is that? Because I realized joining the military so that I can get free school and move out from my parents was not the smartest trade off. That I realized through hard work and saving I could do all of that on my own.

By all means if you want to join the military then do so.. but make sure they are for the right reasons. And IMO to get a "quick" and "easy" fix to paid school and out of your parents house is not that. The thread starter hasn't given one real reason why he wants to serve the country.. it's fake bullshit reasons that have nothing to do with the duty that a military offical has.. all he wants to a "free" meal ticket.

And yes the Airforce is considered the pussy version of the armed forces around the military.. if you argue that then you don't know the difference in the jobs and training between all of them. Not saying I don't respect them.. In fact I was pretty close to signing because I wanted to fly but couldn't because of my vision.. Difference is I wasn't wanting to go for the wrong reason.

[Rogue]

Why is that? Because I realized joining the military so that I can get free school and move out from my parents was not the smartest trade off. That I realized through hard work and saving I could do all of that on my own.

By all means if you want to join the military then do so.. but make sure they are for the right reasons. And IMO to get a "quick" and "easy" fix to paid school and out of your parents house is not that. The thread starter hasn't given one real reason why he wants to serve the country.. it's fake bullshit reasons that have nothing to do with the duty that a military offical has.. all he wants to a "free" meal ticket.

And yes the Airforce is considered the pussy version of the armed forces around the military.. if you argue that then you don't know the difference in the jobs and training between all of them. Not saying I don't respect them.. In fact I was pretty close to signing because I wanted to fly but couldn't because of my vision.. Difference is I wasn't wanting to go for the wrong reason.

The problem with OP isn't that he was prevaricating about the actual reasons why he's considering joining the army, it's that he's too dumb to get his ideas understood. The irony is we've got another idiot who was willing to conceal the truth for him while the OP didn't want his deficiency disguised and contrarily tried to expose and magnify it by keeping up making his dumb posts.

[AFBlue]

The problem with OP isn't that he was prevaricating about the actual reasons why he's considering joining the army, it's that he's too dumb to get his ideas understood. The irony is we've got another idiot who was willing to conceal the truth for him while the OP didn't want his deficiency disguised and contrarily tried to expose and magnify it by keeping up making his dumb posts.

Why do you continue to insist the OP wants to join the Army when it has been said time and time again that he was considering joining the Air Force and the title of this thread is Air Force.

And you're calling the OP an idiot?

Just saying, it's not a minor detail.

[Rogue]

Why do you continue to insist the OP wants to join the Army when it has been said time and time again that he was considering joining the Air Force and the title of this thread is Air Force.

And you're calling the OP an idiot?

Just saying, it's not a minor detail.
wouldn't you feel a little bit feared if a F-16 jet was piloted by a pure piece of used tampon like what OP is? even if he's glued at ground his stupidity could still possibly cause some deep troubles, like if he mistook the runway as toilet and made it slippery as ice with his pee, which may lead to a possible crash of a flying machine worth tens of millions of dollars.

[Rogue]

plus it'd be quite a waste of his masculine if he joined the pussy version of troops, as he's such a man 6'4/185lbs as he described. Which is extremely gigantic size for a "mexican" like OP.

[AFBlue]

wouldn't you feel a little bit feared if a F-16 jet was piloted by a pure piece of used tampon like what OP is? even if he's glued at ground his stupidity could still possibly cause some deep troubles, like if he mistook the runway as toilet and made it slippery as ice with his pee, which may lead to a possible crash of a flying machine worth tens of millions of dollars.

Don't know the OP...but to fly an F-16 you have to be an officer (which requires a college degree), have a high score on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test (AFOQT) in the pilot aptitude section, go through a year-plus of pilot training and be selected to fly fighters.

It's not like going to a recruiter and saying "sign me up".

Besides, I was pointing out your "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" moment...not espousing the merits of the OP.

[Rogue]

The retarded OP once admitted he is "mexican" if there hasn't happened any serious glitch to my memory.

[AFBlue]

plus it'd be quite a waste of his masculine if he joined the pussy version of troops, as he's such a man 6'4/185lbs as he described. Which is extremely gigantic size for a "mexican" like OP.

Wow...did you just call all of our airmen and Air Force veterans "pussy versions of troops"?

Talk about an insult to millions of Americans who have fought for this country and some that have paid the ultimate price.

By the way, this whole "Chairforce" argument is an old and tired one. The Air Force has been filling In-Lieu-Of (ILO) taskings for the Army since the wars began and they're still going strong today. While the Air Force is largely a support organization, its members have been doing their part to take the fight to the enemy ever since it was founded.

In other words...:flipoff

[spursncowboys]

Why is that? Because I realized joining the military so that I can get free school and move out from my parents was not the smartest trade off. That I realized through hard work and saving I could do all of that on my own.

By all means if you want to join the military then do so.. but make sure they are for the right reasons. And IMO to get a "quick" and "easy" fix to paid school and out of your parents house is not that. The thread starter hasn't given one real reason why he wants to serve the country.. it's fake bullshit reasons that have nothing to do with the duty that a military offical has.. all he wants to a "free" meal ticket.

And yes the Airforce is considered the pussy version of the armed forces around the military.. if you argue that then you don't know the difference in the jobs and training between all of them. Not saying I don't respect them.. In fact I was pretty close to signing because I wanted to fly but couldn't because of my vision.. Difference is I wasn't wanting to go for the wrong reason. if you aren't going combat arms, then air force is the best bet.
Also if you are joining because of school money, you are wrong. You will give up more than you get. The pay will never compare to the private sector. It is serving in that regard. However regardless of the reason why you join, doing it is still better than not. one-tenth of one percent of the American population served.

[spursncowboys]

shut up, i dont look that bad, plus i think im build for this, i played sports my whole life, i work out, im 6'4 and weight 185, i just need more conditioning, plus im really interested in going, my friends are in it and it made me think about it
they get you in shape. Just be able to pass weight and tape and you'll be good.

[mavs>spurs2]

yeah you're so manly that even some males are sexually attracted to you, like the retard who tried hard to defend you against my criticisms about your dumbness. But sadly you just let your homie eat crow by posting the shit you posted.

:lmao this is vintage rogue right here

[Rogue]

Wow...did you just call all of our airmen and Air Force veterans "pussy versions of troops"?

Talk about an insult to millions of Americans who have fought for this country and some that have paid the ultimate price.

By the way, this whole "Chairforce" argument is an old and tired one. The Air Force has been filling In-Lieu-Of (ILO) taskings for the Army since the wars began and they're still going strong today. While the Air Force is largely a support organization, its members have been doing their part to take the fight to the enemy ever since it was founded.

In other words...:flipoff

being called "pussy version of troops" isn't as bad an insult as getting joined by an OP-like retard for the USAF IMHO. And I'm not the wanker that initially called it "pussy version" in this thread. Instead I know that Air Force is such a gallant group that always go first in any size of war and sweep the heavy cannons and missile launchers the shit out of enemy grounds, at this point it's the army that acts like pussy with the only mission of regulating the villages/towns like what cops do everyday. That's why I don't want such a group of heroes to be joined/tainted by a true wanker and subsequently became the dick version of troops.

[timvpimp]

Well the first sentence sounds like a personal problem, but if you want to join, *meet the requirements, and *serve your duty honorably and in a satisfactory manner, you will most certainly have earned those benefits and can use them. The only reason I even brought up your bad grammar and incorrect choice of words was that there was nothing from the OPs first post which you could use to infer that he was an immigrant. Your struggles with English (of which accession was only one example), on the other hand, are far more indicative of one who doesn't have a very good grasp on the language. From this, one could derive that you are an immigrant.



You admire goals, check. This is a serious decision, check. You don't want to give advice, check (though not obvious by your other posts).



Well I never said paycheck. I also never said that there are any troops that go in just for the benefits. I said that there are many different motivations that spur many different people to come to the same decision. The decision to join the military is no different. Paycheck may be an important part, desire for discipline may be another, benefits could be another, etc.



You and I agree that we don't need low-skilled immigrants (while I think that attracting high-skilled immigrants is still a benefit to our country), though this isn't necessarily part of the OP's conversation and you were the only one who brought it up, out of nowhere I might add. If you don't like this write your congressman and ask him/her to begin the process of changing the law as it is still a legal avenue for immigration. As far as "gangstas" are concerned, I don't think they would qualify for admittance if they have a record, if they don't and they meet all other requirements they are more than welcome to join, there is no barrier that disallows their ambition. Oh, and no one is forced to do anything, it is a personal choice.




The Spurs training program was never introduced to the conversation, the military's was the focus.

Question for others: I have to ask, is this an obvious troll job? I know there are ignorant people around the world which is why I treat this seriously, but I don't play games and am not a super frequent poster (look at my join date, and post count) so I don't really care to learn the skills to recognize people who have nothing better to do in their lives than play games on the internet.
LOL poor rogue getting lessened by an immigrant :lol


But anyway, it's not too bad to learn a lessen from someone who once made such brilliant statements like "If we are not walking around blowing up home after home, there will be fewer people mad enough at us to become terrorists."

hopefully our grandsons will see these bold words in the White House well mounted. Actually the prohibition of immigrants being statesman has been abrogated since Obama's inauguration, so that's not a dream...