Broder's slurping the Kool-Aid

[Marcus Bryant]

Surprised I haven't seen this article posted yet, considering the number of Palin fans in the forum. Then again, I probably shouldn't be surprised that they haven't come across it.

-MB

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_14375863

[boutons_deux]

Repugs are false populists, convincing the sheeple to vote against their own best interest on some bullshit issue like gays-mean-bestiality+pedophilia, or bullshit scare mongering.

[Marcus Bryant]

Right, and Democrats are the calm and measured technocrats who with dole out lithium to the masses. Yawn.

[DarrinS]

boutons is right, MB.


Liberal progressives know what's best for us. Since they are omniscient and benevolent and know what's best for us dumb serfs, we should empower them to make all the difficult choices vis-a-vis our environment, economy, health care, and national security.


Anyone who questions their strategy or motivation is an inbred hillbilly racist dumfuckwadtard repug.

[Oh, Gee!!]

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_14375863[/url]

after reading the article, I'm convinced that Broder has no earthly who Sarah Palin is, and that he's getting his information from a facebook page or something equally reliable.

[mogrovejo]

I've read much better articles about Palin, but I agree with Broder.

I'm appalled by the condescension democrats are showing towards Palin. They seem to believe that calling her stupid is 1) enough 2) makes it true. They seem to have forgotten that what they're saying about Palin is exactly what they used to say about Reagan - a fringe, crazy, stupid, illiterate, radical conservative who used to make political speeches holding the Bible and spouting lunatic ideas that would scare anyone with a brain. Very dangerous. The fact that the entire argument against Palin is "she's stupid" is quite telling.

[Marcus Bryant]

Standard tactic. Every conservative is ignorant and a racist. By proclaiming your allegiance to the left your intellect magically improves. It's an offer of intellectualism on the cheap. Not surprising that so many fall for it. Akin to conservatism offering success on the cheap, or making Cobra Commander feel wealthy and important in his mom's basement, while he worries about GE's effective income tax rate.

[ElNono]

I'm appalled by the condescension democrats are showing towards Palin. They seem to believe that calling her stupid is 1) enough 2) makes it true. They seem to have forgotten that what they're saying about Palin is exactly what they used to say about Reagan - a fringe, crazy, stupid, illiterate, radical conservative who used to make political speeches holding the Bible and spouting lunatic ideas that would scare anyone with a brain. Very dangerous. The fact that the entire argument against Palin is "she's stupid" is quite telling.

Well, I can tell you Biden is a moron and the only reason he won a presidential election as VP candidate is because he rode the coattails of somebody else. He would have never ever won a presidential nomination nor election basically because Joe is, indeed, a moron.

The situation with Palin is just about the same. She's a very polarizing person even within her own party. While the current argument is that she's indeed stupid, at the time of the election there were other arguments as well that came up on the campaign trail, namely the complete disconnect with world events, and overall endorsement of certain tired policies from the previous administration (her views on the wars, economy, terrorism, executive powers, etc).

I said it when Obama won the election. Palin now has 4 years to study and be more prepared to give it a shot in 2012. I just still not see her reaching to the center, and she's going to need those votes to win an election.

[Marcus Bryant]

Palin's more populist than a committed conservative. She did take on the oil companies and the establishment during her time in Alaskan state government. One does wonder how the national reception would have been if she had a D instead of a R next to her name. Heroic mom who rose from the PTA to the Governor's mansion takes on the greedy oilmen and their lackeys in her own party. When does Disney make the movie?

In any event, I think Palin has exposed the left and right in this country, and the results aren't pretty.

[Marcus Bryant]

Which part of our national politics does not involve character assassination?

Not that this is a new concept.

[ElNono]

In any event, I think Palin has exposed the left and right in this country, and the results aren't pretty.

Exposed how? My opinion of both parties really hasn't changed since Palin showed up.

[ElNono]

Which part of our national politics does not involve character assassination?

Not that this is a new concept.

Or, glorification.

See: Obama, Barack.
Or: Reagan, Ronald.

[Marcus Bryant]

The willingness to destroy someone for no other reason than they are a member of the opposite political party.

The willingness to overlook the significant flaws of someone for no other reason than they are a member of the same political party.

Palin hate and Palin love are both unique and potent political pathologies. The haters see her as the agent of some kind of secret white supremacist theological movement and indulge in the hate they have towards white women and the lower classes. The lovers see her as bulwark of American traditionalism, mom, and apple pie against the dangerous European infected red Democrats led by that sinister black man.

[ElNono]

Palin hate and Palin love are both unique and potent political pathologies. The haters see her as the agent of some kind of secret white supremacist theological movement and indulge in the hate they have towards white women and the lower classes. The lovers see her as bulwark of American traditionalism, mom, and apple pie against the dangerous European infected red Democrats led by that sinister black man.

I have to say it... I LOL'ed... :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Or, glorification.

See: Obama, Barack.
Or: Reagan, Ronald.

True. There is that. Related to overlooking the flaws of your own.

Though the presidency is an office which seems to breed the myth of greatness. Standard fare for any national leader, I suppose.

[ElNono]

I actually think that if you hate Palin, then you have severe problems. Probably as severe as those that hate Obama, or any other political character.

[ElNono]

Though the presidency is an office which seems to breed the myth of greatness. Standard fare for any national leader, I suppose.

In the case of Reagan, and even Clinton, sure. In Obama's case, I think his peak was before the actual election.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bush's problem was that he tarnished national greatness. Not many would have cared about the Iraq invasion had it ended quickly and decisively. Bush the father is an example. Bush the father is also an example for the current occupant of the White House, which is that the people can love you one moment and then dispense of you the next.

[mogrovejo]

Well, I can tell you Biden is a moron and the only reason he won a presidential election as VP candidate is because he rode the coattails of somebody else. He would have never ever won a presidential nomination nor election basically because Joe is, indeed, a moron.

Biden doesn't have 1% of Palin's charisma. And he never had nothing remotely close to the level of hard-core supporters Palin has now.


The situation with Palin is just about the same. She's a very polarizing person even within her own partyNot more than Reagan. Not even close to Reagan. Or many other political winners. The electoral damage of being a polarizing figure is overrated. It only damages those who try to present themselves as not-polarizing.


While the current argument is that she's indeed stupid, at the time of the election there were other arguments as well that came up on the campaign trail, namely the complete disconnect with world events, and overall endorsement of certain tired policies from the previous administration (her views on the wars, economy, terrorism, executive powers, etc).
You mean the Obama Administration? While I agree with you, I can't really see how are democrats (or republicans) going to attack her for this: "oh, she supported Obama policies, don't vote for her, vote for Obama!!!"

The only thing is economy, but I'm not sure if Obama's policies in economy are more popular than Palin's brand of populist small-government - or that she can be effectively tied to previous republicans. Again, voters aren't stupid.


I said it when Obama won the election. Palin now has 4 years to study and be more prepared to give it a shot in 2012. I just still not see her reaching to the center, and she's going to need those votes to win an election.Candidates only start reaching to the centre after the primary.

I suspect Palin doesn't want to run for presidency. But if she does, she doesn't need to start reaching the centre or whatever. She may be out with the petulant intelligentsia and the press but she doesn't need them to win.

[baseline bum]

Palin's rightfully hated because she's an attack dog constantly spouting nothing but anger and sarcasm who whines about unfair treatment the second she gets it back. I am sick of her victim act she always pulls and how she is every bit the sound-bite politician she constantly (and rightfully) criticises Obama for being.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't remember Reagan lying all the time like Palin does.

[Oh, Gee!!]

or quitting

[ChumpDumper]

Palin's quitting just shows how dedicated she was to her job.

[ElNono]

Biden doesn't have 1% of Palin's charisma. And he never had nothing remotely close to the level of hard-core supporters Palin has now.

You seem to think that's a positive. I actually think the rabid fans actually damage her image with independents, which coincidentally, are the ones that win you elections.


Not more than Reagan. Not even close to Reagan. Or many other political winners. The electoral damage of being a polarizing figure is overrated. It only damages those who try to present themselves as not-polarizing.

Reagan was a great communicator, besides of the inherent charisma. Palin has none of that. Frankly, comparing Reagan and Palin is really comparing apples to oranges. Outside of the underdog appearance, there's not much more to draw a parallel, IMO.


You mean the Obama Administration? While I agree with you, I can't really see how are democrats (or republicans) going to attack her for this: "oh, she supported Obama policies, don't vote for her, vote for Obama!!!"
The only thing is economy, but I'm not sure if Obama's policies in economy are more popular than Palin's brand of populist small-government - or that she can be effectively tied to previous republicans. Again, voters aren't stupid.

Obama said one thing and did another. Which is normally how you win an election these days. People were dead tired of the wars, and her and McCain stance of staying there really didn't help their cause, I thought. Same thing with trying to play out Obama as inexperienced in National Security when she didn't know jack shit about the world politics at all. Some of that is on McCain though.


Candidates only start reaching to the centre after the primary.
I suspect Palin doesn't want to run for presidency. But if she does, she doesn't need to start reaching the centre or whatever. She may be out with the petulant intelligentsia and the press but she doesn't need them to win.

Then you don't know much about anything. No party wins elections here without the support of independents. And that means going closer to the middle. It's inevitable.

[mogrovejo]

You seem to think that's a positive. I actually think the rabid fans actually damage her image with independents, which coincidentally, are the ones that win you elections.

Like in 2004? Or last year? Obama had plenty of rabid fans.


Reagan was a great communicator, besides of the inherent charisma. Palin has none of that. Frankly, comparing Reagan and Palin is really comparing apples to oranges. Outside of the underdog appearance, there's not much more to draw a parallel, IMO.

Palin is a great communicator as well, IMO. And what about the stupidity, the radicalism, the rabid fans, the lies?




Obama said one thing and did another. Which is normally how you win an election these days. People were dead tired of the wars, and her and McCain stance of staying there really didn't help their cause, I thought. Same thing with trying to play out Obama as inexperienced in National Security when she didn't know jack shit about the world politics at all. Some of that is on McCain though.

She wasn't running against Obama. VPs role is to play the attack dog. And compared to McCain, Obama was and is inexperienced in National Security issues.

In any case, the point remains: it will be difficult to attack her because she agrees with Obama's policy. If you think the Dems will be able to run against Bush in 3 years you're out of your mind. They won't even be able to do it in November.



Then you don't know much about anything. No party wins elections here without the support of independents. And that means going closer to the middle. It's inevitable.

Sure, that's what candidates do after the primary. But I hope you're not confusing the middle with the people that hate Palin.

[ChumpDumper]

I want to speak up for the American people and say: No, we really do have some good common-sense solutions. I can be a messenger for that.What are her solutions?

[ChumpDumper]

Palin is a great communicator as well, IMO.What news periodicals does she read again?

Did we ever find out?

[ElNono]

Like in 2004? Or last year? Obama had plenty of rabid fans.

No, Obama had a great cult of personality, which is a very different thing from rabid fans. And as Marcus put succinctly in this thread's title, a lot of people drank the Kool-Aid.


Palin is a great communicator as well, IMO.

I think she's a terrible communicator. I think the last incident with the notes in her palm is really amateur stuff.


And what about the stupidity, the radicalism, the rabid fans, the lies?

You mean the attacks against her? I think they're a minority. Unfortunately, her ever defensive stance and equally as-rabid responses simply serve to keep on feeding the loop.


She wasn't running against Obama. VPs role is to play the attack dog. And compared to McCain, Obama was and is inexperienced in National Security issues.

I'm not sure about that. I think they were all inexperienced. I certainly do not make the case that any of them were more experienced than the others. What you can't afford to do is come out as flat out ignorant in international affairs. For voters, 'not knowing' is a lot better than 'knowing she doesnt know'.


In any case, the point remains: it will be difficult to attack her because she agrees with Obama's policy. If you think the Dems will be able to run against Bush in 3 years you're out of your mind. They won't even be able to do it in November.

I don't think democrats will attack her on agreeing with the continuation of Bush policies by this administration. If anything, that's ammunition she will try to use. I simply have doubts she will even survive a Republican primary. I would have to see who else is running.


Sure, that's what candidates do after the primary. But I hope you're not confusing the middle with the people that hate Palin.

I'm not. I'm talking mostly about independents.

[mogrovejo]

No, Obama had a great cult of personality, which is a very different thing from rabid fans. And as Marcus put succinctly in this thread's title, a lot of people drank the Kool-Aid.

Obama fans are and were rabid - Hillary Clinton or John McCain can tell. Just read Andrew Sullivan during those days.



I think she's a terrible communicator. I think the last incident with the notes in her palm is really amateur stuff.

I think nobody cares and it'll probably make her look more sympathetic.



You mean the attacks against her? I think they're a minority. Unfortunately, her ever defensive stance and equally as-rabid responses simply serve to keep on feeding the loop.

No, I mean the common points she has with Reagan. Reagan was called all that stuff.

[ChumpDumper]

I think nobody cares and it'll probably make her look more sympathetic.If she plays up her victimhood, sure.


No, I mean the common points she has with Reagan. Reagan was called all that stuff.I don't remember Reagan's whining so much.

Did he whine as much as Palin does?

[mogrovejo]

Palin, Speed-Dating the Right, Won’t Commit: Margaret Carlson Share (javascript:togShareLinks('shr_v');pageTracker._tr ackPageview('/outgoing/share_dropdown_link');)Business Exchange (javascript:shareBusinessExchange();pageTracker._t rackPageview('/outgoing/share_BX_top');)Twitter (javascript:shareTwitter();pageTracker._trackPagev iew('/outgoing/share_twitter_top');)Facebook (javascript:shareFacebook();pageTracker._trackPage view('/outgoing/share_facebook_top');)| Email (?Subject=Bloomberg%20news:%20%20Palin,%20Speed-Dating%20the%20Right,%20Won%E2%80%99t%20Commit:%20 Margaret%20Carlson%20&body=%20Palin,%20Speed-Dating%20the%20Right,%20Won%E2%80%99t%20Commit:%20 Margaret%20Carlson%20%0D%0A%0D%0A%20http%3A//www.bloomberg.com/apps/news%3Fpid%3Demail_en%26sid%3DaS8mxrAFS.Sk) | Print (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aS8mxrAFS.Sk#) | A (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aS8mxrAFS.Sk#) A (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aS8mxrAFS.Sk#) A (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aS8mxrAFS.Sk#)


Commentary by Margaret Carlson


Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Forget the jokes about Sarah Palin (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Sarah+Palin&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) being a palm reader. To her followers, the scribbled notes on her hand -- there, seemingly, to remind her of her main talking points -- is not at all like a sophomore cheating on a history final.
To them, it’s one more endearing quirk. Presidents use teleprompters. Real leaders make do with what they have.




What is shocking is that she’s not going to be limited by the tea partiers. While happy to accept their love -- albeit for a hefty fee -- she has no intention of being monogamous. She’s already moved beyond it.
As part of her cross-country dating, she is endorsing some Republicans running against conservative tea-party candidates.



She is a candidate sharpest when she is running against more than just an incumbent president
but against all of the ins in favor of the outs -- against party regulars, hired handlers, vegans, secularists, most pointy-heads east of the Mississippi and everyone who watches David Letterman (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=David+Letterman&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1).


Great expression.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aS8mxrAFS.Sk

[DarrinS]

If she plays up her victimhood, sure.

I don't remember Reagan's whining so much.

Did he whine as much as Palin does?



I can't stand people that whine. We hired this dude recently, and all he does is bitch and moan about the mess he "inherited" from his predecessor. I wish he'd just roll up his sleeves and get to work and quit making exuses for his poor performance.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't stand people that whine. We hired this dude recently, and all he does is bitch and moan about the mess he "inherited" from his predecessor. I wish he'd just roll up his sleeves and get to work and quit making exuses for his poor performance.But you don't hate whiners like Palin, do you?

You like whiners when they whine like you do.

Poor, victimized Darriin.

[DarrinS]

But you don't hate whiners like Palin, do you?

You like whiners when they whine like you do.

Poor, victimized Darriin.



I'm sick of her and I'm sick of people bitching about her and her book, and her accent, and her clothes, and her alleged low IQ, etc. etc. etc.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sick of her and I'm sick of people bitching about her and her book, and her accent, and her clothes, and her alleged low IQ, etc. etc. etc.Then you probably shouldn't be posting in threads about her, genius.

Oh, but you get to whine about it here.

It all makes sense.

[DarrinS]

Then you probably shouldn't be posting in threads about her, genius.



Eh, you may have a point.

Now I'm done.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, you may have a point.

Now I'm done.Until the next Palin thread.

[ElNono]

Obama fans are and were rabid - Hillary Clinton or John McCain can tell. Just read Andrew Sullivan during those days.

I think there's always a minority. I sure don't recall hearing about incident's like this one (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_calls_Obama_decent_person_is_booed.html) at an Obama's town hall meeting.


I think nobody cares and it'll probably make her look more sympathetic.

Excellent communication skills are imperative. You need to sell your bullshit and look good doing it. It's not even hard to go take some classes and get it right. Most politicians have.


No, I mean the common points she has with Reagan. Reagan was called all that stuff.

As I already stated, I don't see many common points at all.

[mogrovejo]

Ronald Reagan claimed that the Russian language had no word for "freedom." (The word is "svoboda"; it's quite well attested in Russian literature.)

Ronald Reagan said that intercontinental ballistic missiles (not that there are any non-ballistic missiles—a corruption of language that isn't his fault) could be recalled once launched.

Ronald Reagan said that he sought a "Star Wars" defense only in order to share the technology with the tyrants of the U.S.S.R. Ronald Reagan professed to be annoyed when people called it "Star Wars," even though he had ended his speech on the subject with the lame quip, "May the force be with you."

Ronald Reagan used to alarm his Soviet counterparts by saying that surely they'd both unite against an invasion from Mars.

Ronald Reagan used to alarm other constituencies by speaking freely about the "End Times" foreshadowed in the Bible.

In the Oval Office, Ronald Reagan told Yitzhak Shamir and Simon Wiesenthal, on two separate occasions, that he himself had assisted personally at the liberation of the Nazi death camps.

[ElNono]

What's your point? I would associate that more towards Bush Jr than Palin.