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duncan228
02-13-2010, 01:20 AM
Are the San Antonio Spurs the next Detroit Pistons? (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2010/02/are_the_san_antonio_spurs_the.html)
By Patrick Hayes
Full-Court Press - A Detroit Pistons Blog

While the Detroit Pistons have seemingly bottomed out after a decade-long run as a top-four team in the NBA, the team has faced its share of criticism.

One of the top things I've heard: "You don't have to bottom out to rebuild. Look at the San Antonio Spurs."

Well, things haven't been going so hot for the Spurs of late either. They are absolutely better than the Pistons right now -- having Tim Duncan will do that for you -- and still a playoff contender, but is the end nearing for a core group of Spurs who have become accustomed to dominating the NBA?

Check out some of the things that have been going wrong (http://technorati.com/sports/article/are-we-witnessing-the-crumbling-of/) for the team of late:

- Yahoo! reported (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jeffersonspurs020910&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) that coach Gregg Popovich is quickly losing patience with pricey offseason acquisition Richard Jefferson, who has not provided the offense the team was expecting when they acquired him from the Bucks for expiring contracts.

- Star guard Manu Ginobili, whose scoring average is the lowest it has been since his second year in the league, has openly wondered (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/02/08/morning.tip/) if he'll be in San Antonio next year (his contract is up after the season).

- Tony Parker has been injured and his scoring average is down five points per game from last year.

- Promising second-year player George Hill had to apologize because he Odened (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/26/greg-oden-naked-pictures_n_437238.html) himself -- aka someone posted a naked picture of him online (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/09/spurs.hill.ap/index.html?rss=true).

Now, because Duncan doesn't appear to age and is having his typical 20 points/10 rebounds per game on 50 percent shooting season, the Spurs have managed to stay above .500 and are in fifth place in the West, although fifth through 11th in the West are only separated by four games. But what about what's around Duncan? Are the Spurs in that much better position long-term than the Pistons? Let's break it down:

Contracts: The worst ones the Spurs have are Richard Jefferson -- he makes $15 million next year then expires and Antonio McDyess. McDyess has been solid, as always, for the Spurs, but is an aging 20-minute a night player really worth the $4.8 and $5 million that he will make the next two seasons after this? 'Dyess has helped the Spurs, but if they had never signed him and had never done the Jefferson trade, they would have only significant cap room next year. Maybe not enough to snag a max player, like Texas native Chris Bosh, but most likely better value than the Jefferson/McDyess combo they have right now.

The Pistons obviously have some not-so-great deals -- Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton and Charlie Villanueva are all signed long-term and Tayshaun Prince is signed through next year. The Spurs obviously have better veterans for the money they spending on them next year, but they aren't exactly in a great position to improve either.

Young Players: Hill has filled in admirable for Parker -- 16.1 points per game in his last 12, all starts -- and looks to be a first round steal in last year's draft. Dejuan Blair, who should've been a first round pick this year, might be the best value in what has turned out to be a very deep draft. He's averaging 13 rebounds per 36 minutes. But those two are really it for the Spurs as far as young players, unless you want to count Matt Bonner. They have one under-30 guy locked up to a price deal in Parker.

The Pistons have Rodney Stuckey, a young guard who has improved each of his three seasons and has established himself as one of the toughest players in the league -- look at the pounding he takes going to the basket. Jonas Jerebko is in the Rookies vs. Sophomores game and Austin Daye has shown promise. Two of the Pistons long-term contracts are to guys in Gordon and Villanueva who are still considered young players.

It's pretty safe to say the Pistons have more guys on their roster with the potential to get better than the Spurs, unless you are convinced Michael Finley just needs more minutes to finally show his potential.

Obviously, anyone in their right mind would still trade rosters with the Spurs in a second, simply because of Duncan. But remove Duncan from the equation, and what the Spurs have around him is a question mark at best.

The Pistons' decline has been obvious, but they are far from the only team that is going to go from a recent stretch of dominance to a big dropoff as they try and find a new identity. The Spurs are catching up with them, quicker than many expected.

MmP
02-13-2010, 01:30 AM
Not at all. First of all we didn't trade a talented all around, pass first PG for A.I demolishing the foundations of a good team.
At least not for now...

raspsa
02-13-2010, 01:35 AM
Deepends on the trades/acquisitions/draftees the Spurs make over the next several seasons. Splitter may help shore up the center position hopefully. My wish is for more length and size and who have defensive mindsets. Basketball is still a big man's game and IMO a good big man will usually prevail over a good small man.

Truckules
02-13-2010, 02:09 AM
I don't take anyone who is overweight and refers to himself as an alpha male seriously.

Chillen
02-13-2010, 02:19 AM
Just surround Tim Duncan around a talented core of players, I'd like to see the Spurs win the NBA title again, but until Duncan hangs them up this franchise should just try and put out the best team they can for their superstar and if they win 50 games and make the playoffs, that's great. The Pistons blew it up with the Billups for AI trade, the Spurs won't ever trade Duncan so they will be rebuilding the day he retires from the game.

exstatic
02-13-2010, 10:12 AM
Chauncey was the heart of the Pistons, and they traded him. That has as much to do with their plummet as anything. I don't see the Spurs trading Duncan.

Cane
02-13-2010, 10:19 AM
Nope. San Antonio hasn't made a boneheaded trade to get the chemistry cancer that is AI, we're healthier, and the Spurs has a front office thats spending the cash and trying to make the trades to remain a contender than to rebuild - it'll be that way until Duncan retires.

wut
02-13-2010, 10:48 AM
The guy who wrote this article made it very clear that he's only viewing the Spurs through a handful of articles and a stat sheet.

He's trying to somehow pump up his own self-esteem by trying to say that every great team/franchise is susceptible to the same decline, as the team he follows.

The truth is, when you lose a hall of fame player you will go through a rebuilding period....and we all know the Spurs have been so good for so long because of the luck of landing two hall of fame players in a row.

As for his overall point (that the Spurs are declining to the Pistons level), is ridiculous. The Spurs are still capable of making the western conference finals....the Pistons are praying a miracle happens to even make the playoffs.

The Spurs will never be in that position as long as Tim Duncan is on the team....and that's the answer to this guy's burning question. He is told 'you don't have to bottom out to rebuild', and his logic can't follow...that there is one caveat to this....and it is *as long you have a superstar player on your team.

Superstar....a lot of people use the term but only a handful in the league truly fit the term. Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Nash.... these are players that single handedly are enough to put your team in the playoffs year after year; you may not win a championship every year, but you don't bottom out with guys like that on your team...and it's that simple.

mookie2001
02-13-2010, 10:58 AM
duncan228 why do have to post this crap?, this isnt even ordinarily repetitive or generic it just sucks

please, raise the bar

jason1301
02-13-2010, 11:56 AM
Detroit would have been in pretty good damn shape right now if not for Darko Milicic.

Timmy21Sas
02-13-2010, 12:08 PM
I am new here and i think everybody knows that we need a big man and what you guys think about manu + 1 or 2 picks for Camby and Eric Gordon

pjjrfan
02-13-2010, 12:58 PM
The roman empire fell, why not the Spurs. it's bound to happen sooner or later.

Interrohater
02-13-2010, 01:50 PM
Misery loves company.

Truckules
02-13-2010, 02:07 PM
The roman empire fell, why not the Spurs. it's bound to happen sooner or later.

They won't fall as much as they will ebb and flow. Teams go through rebuilding phases. The reason why Detroit is in the situation they are is because, as someone said, of the Billups-Iverson trade. That one trade is the reason why Detroit is struggling and the Nuggets are flourishing. The reason why the Spurs won't be the next Pistons is because the Spurs' FO is smart and wouldn't have made that trade. It would be like trading Tim Duncan for Kevin Garnett.

raspsa
02-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Chauncey was the heart of the Pistons, and they traded him. That has as much to do with their plummet as anything. I don't see the Spurs trading Duncan.

I actually thinkit started with the trade of Big Ben. He pesonified heart and was the main cog of their defense. When he left, their interior defense and overall defensive intensity took a big hit and started the downward spiral.

Juanobili
02-13-2010, 02:25 PM
I actually thinkit started with the trade of Big Ben. He pesonified heart and was the main cog of their defense. When he left, their interior defense and overall defensive intensity took a big hit and started the downward spiral.

They didn't trade him. He left.

igruex
02-13-2010, 03:39 PM
the Pistons have more guys on their roster with the potential to get better than the Spurs, unless you are convinced Michael Finley just needs more minutes to finally show his potential.


:rollin

There's so much fail in the article, it's not even worth a comment. The quote is funny though.

igruex
02-13-2010, 03:41 PM
That one trade is the reason why Detroit is struggling and the Nuggets are flourishing. The reason why the Spurs won't be the next Pistons is because the Spurs' FO is smart and wouldn't have made that trade. It would be like trading Tim Duncan for Kevin Garnett.

The Billups-Iverson trade was much worse than a that.

duncan228
02-22-2010, 08:11 PM
http://media.mlive.com/its-just-sports/photo/spurs-pistons-basketballjpg-d632ae2fc03b299b_medium.jpg
Tim Duncan, keeping the Spurs relevant since 1998.

The San Antonio Spurs are not a good comparison for the Detroit Pistons (http://blog.mlive.com/its-just-sports/2010/02/the_san_antonio_spurs_are_not.html)
By Patrick Hayes

For obvious reasons, the Detroit Pistons and San Antonio Spurs have been compared a lot over the last 10 years -- both successful, blue collar teams who have consistently won over a long stretch.

Now that things have gone downhill for the Pistons, however, the comparisons are turning into the "Spurs stayed relevant, why can't the Pistons?" diatribes, the latest from MLive colleague Rob Otto (http://blog.mlive.com/ottoman-empire/2010/02/detroit_pistons_could_learn_a_lot_from_san_antonio _spurs.html).

Don't be fooled, people: the Spurs are fading as well. The only reason we don't notice is because Tim Duncan is the best, most consistent player of this era (yes, that includes you Kobe).

I tackled this in a bit more depth on FCP (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2010/02/are_the_san_antonio_spurs_the.html), but just want to reiterate a few things:

- Gregg Popovich has been able to remain as coach of the Spurs for so long for one reason: his superstar, Duncan, buys in. Detroit's coaches after Larry Brown have not had that luxury -- Flip Saunders and Michael Curry both were turned out by players. Popovich is an anomaly. NBA coaches typically have a shelf life of three years or less. Maybe five or six years for good ones. Popovich, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson are the only two who happen to be in situations where they have some job stability beyond that typical few years coaches get. If the Pistons played hard for Saunders every night and bought into his system, he'd still be coaching. They didn't, so he's gone. That's life in the NBA. Why does Popovich have job security? Duncan.

- The Spurs offseason acquisitions -- Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess -- have not been successes. Jefferson, in fact, has been a major disappointment. McDyess has been fine, but their combined salaries take the Spurs out of contention for free agents in the 2010 offseason. Without signing McDyess or trading expiring deals for Jefferson, the Spurs, including Manu Ginobili's expiring deal, would possibly be able to piece enough money together to make a run at Texas native Chris Bosh in free agency. Instead, they get to hold onto an aging core, hope Tony Parker can return from an injury-plagued season and hope they can turn Jefferson's expiring deal next year into something useful before the 2011 trade deadline. Why don't we notice just how bad Jefferson has been? Duncan.

- The Spurs are in trouble. They had to employ hack-a-Ben for nearly three minutes (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2010/02/about_last_night_san_antonio_s.html) to get back into last night's game against a lottery team. They are seventh in the West, have one of the oldest rosters and may not get much out of Parker the rest of the way. There is a very real chance the Spurs could miss the playoffs this year. They're certainly better than the Pistons, but they are facing some of the same issues. Why don't we notice that the Spurs are actually declining? Duncan.

The Pistons and their rise and eventual decline are the norm. The Spurs having the luxury of Duncan, a player who is putting up virtually the same dominant stats in 2010 that he was in 1997, is about as opposite of the norm as you can get.