maybe us mavs fans should give donnie and cubes some more credit

[stretch]

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2576

great points in this article. gotta give donnie and cubes some serious props. hes done well this year, and has the mavs set up for plenty more good moves.

[endrity]

those draft picks he gave to the Nets for the Kidd trade might come handy now, but still, they've had a good run!

[21_Blessings]

Collusion.:hat

[monosylab1k]

I'm a dumbass

Nothing the Mavs has done comes close to giving up the biggest draft bust in NBA history, a terrible 12th man, and a 2nd round prospect for a top 10 player in the league.

[badfish22]

Great trade


Collusion.:hat

but not that great. Maybe if Caron completely returns to his all-star form, and Josh continues to suck, it gets close. I think a change of scenery will do Josh great. I wouldnt be surprised if he has a 30 point game or two.

But I'm more pumped for Haywood. Heres a good article on him. http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/1/28/1274617/profiling-brendan-haywoods-defense

[21_Blessings]

Marc Gasol > Haywood

Cap space to get Z-Bo > Butler

Mitch > Cuban

[badfish22]

Pau Gasol > Butler

Josh Howard > Kwame Browm

[badfish22]

Mavs might not be done dealing
(http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4665991/mavs-might-not-be-done-dealing)February, 15, 2010

DALLAS -- Mavericks president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson knew he had no time to relax after pulling off a seven-player trade with the Washington Wizards.

"In the NBA, you’re never done. Ever," Nelson said. "It’s one constant state of upgrade."

That's especially true with an owner as aggressive and determined to win as Mark Cuban.

It's unlikely that the Mavs will make another blockbuster move before Thursday's trade deadline, but that doesn't mean they're done dealing.

Dallas would like to use its $2.4 million trade exception created in a deal with the New Jersey Nets to add a nice young player to its bench. The Mavs are searching for scenarios where two teams want to make a deal but need a third party to help facilitate it, although it appears more likely that the Mavs will use that trade exception this summer.

The Mavs' moves might not be done after the trade deadline, either. They have two open roster spots. If they aren't filled via trade, Cuban said the plan is wait and see whether the Mavs can land a quality veteran who is released or bought out of his contract

[Mel_13]

There's no doubt that the Mavs have a made a series of moves that have improved the talent on the team. They also deserve credit for constructing the contracts of Dampier, Howard, Stackhouse, Gooden, and Buckner in ways that made them valuable as future trade chips. The authors of the article are, however, just a little disingenuous when they downplay the role of Cuban's money in all the improvements. If the Mavs complete the plan that is outlined in the article, Cuban will be paying around 125M in salaries and taxes for the 2010-11 team.

Now I don't have the least problem with Cuban using his money within the rules. The owners and the players signed off on a CBA that establishes the rules of the game. Everything Dallas has done is allowed under the rules, but Nelson would not have been able to assemble the current and future team without Cuban's open checkbook. Credit to Nelson for leveraging Cuban's money to build a better team. There have been other GM's with similar financial advantages who have utterly failed to turn those advantages into winning teams.

About the only thing that stands in the way of Dallas remaining a winning franchise for many years to come is if Stern succeeds in forcing a hard cap on player salaries.

[monosylab1k]

Marc Gasol > Haywood

Cap space to get Z-Bo > Butler

Mitch > Cuban

What Marc Gasol is doing right now doesn't have shit to do with it. That's what you retarded ass Laker fans don't get. At the time of the trade, Marc Gasol was nothing more than a 2nd round draft n stash player. Which means he wasn't worth shit in NBA trading value. Just because he turned into a very nice player doesn't mean the Grizzlies made a smart trade.

There's 20 year old Nintendo games that will sell for $10,000 on ebay right now. Does that mean that the person who bought the game in 1989 is a secret genius? No. Does it mean that the person who sold the game in 1989 was stupid for selling something of tremendous value for only 20 or 30 bucks? No. in 1989 the value of that game was only 20 or 30 bucks. THAT WAS THE SET VALUE. in 2010 the value is something completely different, and that's irrelevant to what the SET VALUE was in 1989.

Same thing here. in 07-08 the value for Marc Gasol was nothing at all because he was just a 2nd round euro stash pick. HE HAD NO SUBSTANTIAL VALUE IN NBA TRADING TERMS. What he's developed into since then IS COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT TO WHAT HIS VALUE WAS IN 2008.

[duhoh]

What Marc Gasol is doing right now doesn't have shit to do with it. That's what you retarded ass Laker fans don't get.

HE HAD NO SUBSTANTIAL VALUE IN NBA TRADING TERMS. What he's developed into since then IS COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT TO WHAT HIS VALUE WAS IN 2008.

Thank you. :tu

I hate how people are saying it's not such a lopsided trade right anymore.

It was lopsided, and insane. Marc Gasol could've been a bust, as no one thought he was gonna be this good, otherwise LA would've kept him.

[Ghazi]

Mavs FO has been the best FO this season. Three useless wing players turned into Shawn Marion, and two black holes turned into a 10/10 center and borderline All Star small forward... and then the drafting of Beaubois. We can lose in the 1st round this year and I'll still give the FO an A+.

[DAF86]

Mavs FO has been the best FO this season. Three useless wing players turned into Shawn Marion, and two black holes turned into a 10/10 center and borderline All Star small forward... and then the drafting of Beaubois. We can lose in the 1st round this year and I'll still give the FO an A+.

Spurs fans were saying the same thing about the Spurs FO, what if this trade doesn't bring the expected results?

[timvp]

I don't get how Mav Nation can look at the acquisition of Shawn Marion's rotting corpse and corresponding five-year contract and chalk it up as a good move. RJ has been a disaster for the Spurs but the Marion move looks even worse ... especially long-term.

Other than Marion, the rest of the moves have been good. Roddy Buckets took some b@lls and it looks like a great pick. Oh and missing out on Gortat looks like it could have been a blessing in disguise.

[Ghazi]

I don't get how Mav Nation can look at the acquisition of Shawn Marion's rotting corpse and corresponding five-year contract and chalk it up as a good move. RJ has been a disaster for the Spurs but the Marion move looks even worse ... especially long-term.

Other than Marion, the rest of the moves have been good. Roddy Buckets took some b@lls and it looks like a great pick. Oh and missing out on Gortat looks like it could have been a blessing in disguise.

Uhh, cause we gave up nothing for him. Wright/Stackhouse/George, give me Marion's "rotting corpse" over three rotting corpses that are far worse at basketball.

Marion's been good this year.

the 5 year contract is irrelevant. Dirk will be 36 in 5 years therefore the Mavs will probably be irrelevant, regardless of Marion's contract

[Basketballgirl25]

sad thing id Mavs prob won't win the finals in this era, Cavs most likely this year, so Mavs won't win it. Next year maybe if they are smart and do good moves and maybe trade a older player or two, but they will still be older next year, what happens if Kidd goes down or Dirk. Got to give them credit for trying to win though

[Rogue]

Mavs FO has been the best FO this season. Three useless wing players turned into Shawn Marion, and two black holes turned into a 10/10 center and borderline All Star small forward... and then the drafting of Beaubois. We can lose in the 1st round this year and I'll still give the FO an A+.
none of these "useful" players was acquired at ZERO prize IMHO. They cost some invaluable contracts whose expiring dates are all set at 2010 summer, that could have been used more wisely and subsequently convected into some real influential players like Amaré. Just because he plays lazy defense on Suns it doesn't mean he doesn't have the capabilities for being a fine defender. Rather than any other issue his lazy defensive works are more relevant to his attitude and team's mentality, and I believe it would be easily fixed in Mavs atmosphere if it was Donnie instead of Cavs that in reality got him.

If the Mavs lost in round 1 this year, it would ineluctably insinuate that Mavs had made no fucking improvement over last season and that rebuilding the team had better be started earlier rather than later.

[clambake]

Marion's been good this year.

ummm, what?

[Rogue]

I don't get how Mav Nation can look at the acquisition of Shawn Marion's rotting corpse and corresponding five-year contract and chalk it up as a good move. RJ has been a disaster for the Spurs but the Marion move looks even worse ... especially long-term.

Other than Marion, the rest of the moves have been good. Roddy Buckets took some b@lls and it looks like a great pick. Oh and missing out on Gortat looks like it could have been a blessing in disguise.
Marion has been doing fine with Mavs this season, or at the very least he didn't turn out to be an upset piece of shit like Richard Dick Jefferson. RDJ earns 14 million bucks for this season's mediocre performances with the Spurs and will have even more guaranteed money on contract for next season, which counts roughly as much as 30 million. 30m is also about the same amout that Marion costs during through the full term of his contract. Once Marion starts to get dominated by his age, like in 3-4 seasons, his contracts will have turned an expiring piece almost by the same period of time and can easily be convected into someones useful as how Stack's contract was dealt with.

[monosylab1k]

ummm, what?

I wouldn't say he's been good but Marion has played excellent defense. Overall a disappointment but he hasn't been completely useless.

[Mel_13]

Marion has been doing fine with Mavs this season, or at the very least he didn't turn out to be an upset piece of shit like Richard Dick Jefferson. RDJ earns 14 million bucks for this season's mediocre performances with the Spurs and will have even more guaranteed money on contract for next season, which counts roughly as much as 30 million. 30m is also about the same amout that Marion costs during through the full term of his contract. Once Marion starts to get dominated by his age, like in 3-4 seasons, his contracts will have turned an expiring piece almost by the same period of time and can easily be convected into someones useful as how Stack's contract was dealt with.

Interesting that you choose to account for the doubling effect of the luxury tax on Jefferson's deal, yet ignore the same factor in Marion's. It does serve to illustrate my point from above. Most clubs are harmed when large investments prove to be unproductive and have to back away from new spending for a time. Cuban simply writes another check and tries again. As a fan, you have to appreciate an owner that is willing to keep spending in pursuit of a championship, but it doesn't prove any sort of cleverness. It's the same advantage the Yankees have, they are not limited by prior bad decisions.

Btw, you may want to edit your last two posts and replace "convect" with "convert". I'm pretty sure that's the verb you were looking for.

Edit: I may have misread your post. It appears the 30M figure you attach to RJ is his total salary for two years, not double the 15M he is due next year. Sorry about that. The points in the rest of the post stand.

[Findog]

I don't get how Mav Nation can look at the acquisition of Shawn Marion's rotting corpse and corresponding five-year contract and chalk it up as a good move. RJ has been a disaster for the Spurs but the Marion move looks even worse ... especially long-term.

Other than Marion, the rest of the moves have been good. Roddy Buckets took some b@lls and it looks like a great pick. Oh and missing out on Gortat looks like it could have been a blessing in disguise.

Marion has at least been a useful role player, something you can't say about Jefferson. His offensive game has deteriorated from his days in Phoenix, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how good a defender he still is.

[Basketballgirl25]

As a fan, you have to appreciate an owner that is willing to keep spending in pursuit of a championship, but it doesn't prove any sort of cleverness. It's the same advantage the Yankees have, they are not limited by prior bad decisions.

Yankees spent and won I'm happy since Baseball is better then basketball any day. Maybe Cuban should go talk to the Yankees. Cuban got Kidd to win and didn't win maybe second time is a charm

[timvp]

It does serve to illustrate my point from above. Most clubs are harmed when large investments prove to be unproductive and have to back away from new spending for a time. Cuban simply writes another check and tries again.

Yeah, I'm guessing that's the difference. If the Spurs would have traded for Marion and given him a five-year contract, Spurs fans would be ready to tar and feather the Spurs FO. The fact that the Spurs wouldn't have given up anything of note for him wouldn't have mattered. The contract itself would have been crippling.

But when you have an owner who has never been held down by bad contracts, the rules are different.

[Muser]

Cuban has always been a good owner, Sure he has his moments in the press but nobody can deny he has been a very good owner for the Mavs.

[Findog]

But when you have an owner who has never been held down by bad contracts, the rules are different.

To be fair, Cuban's free-spending ways have prevented the Mavs from ever having cap space to sign a FA above the MLE. Along with draft picks, that's the easiest way to improve your team.

[stretch]

Marion >>>>>>> Wright

so I'd say that was a win

Marion's offense has been the main thing that was disappointing, but it seemed like the calf injury has really been holding him back. seems like over the last couple games he had a little more jump in him than he had for a while this year. but in the first few games of the year, he was looking very active, up until he really irritated the injury. but i think having a slasher/penetrator like Butler will really help the team all around.

dont forget Stevenson either. I have a feeling he will contribute more than people think

[Basketballgirl25]

Cuban has always been a good owner, Sure he has his moments in the press but nobody can deny he has been a very good owner for the Mavs.

he has been a good owner for the Mavs, but it hasn't gotten him anywhere, like I tell people Mavs will win when they don't have Dirk just my feeling:toast

[LOL@MavsFan]

Go Spurs Go!

[LOL@MavsFan]

LOL Mavs

[stretch]

LOL bjot

[LOL@MavsFan]

LOL bjot

LOL Mavs fan thinking this trade will get them anywhere:lol

[stretch]

LOL utsa

[LOL@MavsFan]

LOL utsa

LOL graduating UTSA and getting a master's at Trinity LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL:lol:lol:lol

[Mel_13]

To be fair, Cuban's free-spending ways have prevented the Mavs from ever having cap space to sign a FA above the MLE. Along with draft picks, that's the easiest way to improve your team.

History says otherwise. Most teams are built through draft picks and trades. The NBA landscape is more often changed by major trades than FA signings. Kareem, Kobe, and Gasol all came to LA via trade. KG and Allen came in trades. The recent Detroit teams featured traded players (the Wallaces and Hamilton) and an MLE-level FA in Billups.

Name another big money FA besides Shaq that was instrumental to winning a championship with a new team.

[stretch]

LOL a 13 year old lying on an internet forum

[stretch]

History says otherwise. Most teams are built through draft picks and trades. The NBA landscape is more often changed by major trades than FA signings. Kareem, Kobe, and Gasol all came to LA via trade. KG and Allen came in trades. The recent Detroit teams featured traded players (the Wallaces and Hamilton) and an MLE-level FA in Billups.

Name another big money FA besides Shaq that was instrumental to winning a championship with a new team.

i was about to say the same thing. trades and the draft always seem more effective to me.

[mavs>spurs2]

i was about to say the same thing. trades and the draft always seem more effective to me.

I think this is because when signing a free agent, many times you're trying to add talent to the roster. The new signing may or may not work out well for the team. Usually when a trade is made, it's because a team has certain needs that they desperately need filled before the deadline, and if the GM is any good at all, he trades for guys who fill those needs so that the pieces fit in perfectly.

[sefant77]

There's no doubt that the Mavs have a made a series of moves that have improved the talent on the team. They also deserve credit for constructing the contracts of Dampier, Howard, Stackhouse, Gooden, and Buckner in ways that made them valuable as future trade chips. The authors of the article are, however, just a little disingenuous when they downplay the role of Cuban's money in all the improvements. If the Mavs complete the plan that is outlined in the article, Cuban will be paying around 125M in salaries and taxes for the 2010-11 team.



wut?

Even with Damp to JJ/Bosh/whatever and Haywood extended around 6-7 mio it will be not more than 115 total with taxes (payroll 90-95 + LT) and thats not much less than Lakers, Orlando, Cavs etc.

Thats the prize you have to pay these years for the title...

[Mel_13]

wut?

Even with Damp to JJ/Bosh/whatever and Haywood extended around 6-7 mio it will be not more than 115 total with taxes (payroll 90-95 + LT) and thats not much less than Lakers, Orlando, Cavs etc.

Thats the prize you have to pay these years for the title...

Do the math. If the payroll is 95M, and the luxury tax limit goes down from 69M to 65M as projected, then the Mavs would pay 30M in luxury tax and 125M overall.

And as I said before, Cuban has every right to spend that money to pursue a championship. Just pointing out that the Nelson could not have assembled the current and future rosters without Cuban's checkbook. If he was limited to a budget of 80M or 90M in total payroll expenses, most of the recent transactions would not have been possible.

[Rogue]

Marion >>>>>>> Wright

so I'd say that was a win

Marion's offense has been the main thing that was disappointing, but it seemed like the calf injury has really been holding him back. seems like over the last couple games he had a little more jump in him than he had for a while this year. but in the first few games of the year, he was looking very active, up until he really irritated the injury. but i think having a slasher/penetrator like Butler will really help the team all around.

dont forget Stevenson either. I have a feeling he will contribute more than people think
I have to agree that Marion is an absolute upgrade over Antonie "the mutha fucking man" wright, who flourishes at one night and has to shuffle off the following 3 or 4 until the next night when he plays like the man. The lame side is Donnie could have got something far more valuable than Marion yet he hadn't got enough brain or vision to convert the invaluable assets into the right things. Marion is playing fine but I would imagine a better squad with Marion replaced by someone else like Iggy, or Amaré or whoever is affordable for expiring contracts.