What do you think of the new starting lineup?

[timvp]

I know Spurs fans only care about the forthcoming trade deadline right now, but that new starting lineup Pop employed last night was, well, shocking. During the recent TNT broadcasts, Doug Collins constantly repeated that Pop told him that he was planning big changes coming out of the All-Star break. But, wow, this wasn't what I was expecting.

For those who didn't watch the game, Pop trotted out this starting lineup: Tony Parker, George Hill, Keith Bogans, Matt Bonner and Tim Duncan. Parker, Hill and Duncan weren't surprises but Bogans over Jefferson and Bonner over McDyess and Blair? Wow ... that's all I can say.

The cons of this starting lineup are obvious:

1. Matt Bonner as a starter was a failure last season. In the playoffs, he was horrible. This season, protecting the rim has been a major issue for the team. Bonner makes that an even more prominent deficiency. And I haven't even mentioned how he's shooting just 31.5% since his return from injury.

2. Bogans hasn't played well in weeks (or is it months now?). His shooting has been very iffy and, most damning, his defense has been average. It looked like Bogans had played his way out of the regular rotation. Now he's suddenly a starter again. Wow.

3. DeJuan Blair and Antonio McDyess will be fighting for a relatively small amount of minutes. After you factor in Bonner's minutes and small ball minutes, we could be talking peanuts. Blair, specifically, could find his playing time drop sharply.

4. The ceiling for this starting group is extremely limited. Even if Bonner and Bogans are playing well, basically every other Western Conference playoff hopeful boasts a better starting unit. Starting each half in a hole doesn't sound like a winning recipe.

5. The Spurs are paying Richard Jefferson a lot of money. Bringing him off he bench can basically be construed as giving up on him. At the very least, it makes it much more difficult for him to ever reach a level that justifies the trade.

Now I'll try to summon my inner Pop in an attempt to explain why he made this decision:

1. The Spurs need to start playing better defense to have any hope of winning a championship. Though it may be more reflective of the sad state of affairs, Bonner is currently the team's best defensive bigman outside of Duncan. While Bogans has been average defensively as of late, he's the team's best defender at small forward. Putting the best defenders on the court to start the game should set a dependable tone to each contest.

2. Duncan and Parker need to be surrounded by shooters to be most effective. Both Bonner and Bogans (in addition to Hill) can hit from beyond the arc and should provide sufficient spacing. This lineup makes it easy to figure out who should be the go-to scorers, which could allow the Spurs to burst aggressively out of the gates.

3. For the Spurs to become a true contender, Hill must blossom into the team's fourth most reliable player. By gutting the starting lineup, it puts him into a sink or swim situation. Hill may respond by raising his level of play even higher.

4. Jefferson as a starter wasn't working. There's a chance that he plays better with the second unit due to not feeling as much pressure. Pairing him with Manu Ginobili allows him to play the team's best current playmaker. Also, going up against inferior bench players could allow for his physical tools to better shine.

5. Prior to this move, the Spurs arguably had the best bench in the league. After this move, there's no doubt the Spurs have the best and most talented bench in the league. As long as the starting lineup can stay close, the bench should be able to come in and provide a momentous spark on a consistent basis.



What do you think of the new starting lineup? Select an option in the poll and post your thoughts.

Thanks.

[jason1301]

i think it was the Chemistry issues that forced Pop to go with this line up.

I think RJ played relatively well, and I don't really mind Bonner over Blair and Dice. Prior to the injury he was having a career year, and like TS said he plays the best D next to TD.

[Dice]

Couldn't find the "sucks azz" option.

Bogans got burned on the first play of the game and didn't do much better the rest. His defense hasn't been anything special all season. He's a body to throw out there and nothing more.

Bonner the best defender after Tim? Seriously? I know Dice misses some rotations but he also plays much better overall D than Bonner. Add to that boxing out on the defensive end, which Bonner sucks at, and I'd much rather see McDyess play those minutes. Bonner is nothing but a three point specialist. He's almost non exisitant on the defensive end other than the occasional block from behind under the basket. And Mcdyess with limited minutes will give you the same production you saw for most of the early part of the season.

Jefferson coming off the bench works for me in that he can become your first or second option. When he gets motre touches he's more productive on both ends of the floor.

Hill plays well no matter where you put him in the line-up. He's still a streaky shooter but his overall play makes up for that.


Now am I retarded or did the previous lineup not just beat the hell out of Denver right before the break? Why was there a need to mess with the lineup? The only positive I saw was more production out of Jefferson. And you got less production out of Blair and Dice. Was it worth it?


also: we beat the Pacers by 3. By 3.

[galvatron3000]

Best bench + Worst Starting Lineup = No Championship
Best Bench + Good Starting Lineup = A Chance to Contend/ Possibly Win

[galvatron3000]

Best bench + Worst Starting Lineup = No Championship
Best Bench + Good Starting Lineup = A Chance to Contend/ Possibly Win

[L.I.T]

This is one of my problem with the lineup: TP is 6'1, Hill is 6'2 (granted long arms...but still 6'2) and Bogans is 6'5.

[Russ]

Bonner as a starter is step back. (To view it optimistically, maybe Pop was trying to feature Bonner for a trade.)

But RJ coming off the bench looks like a good thing.


5. Prior to this move, the Spurs arguably had the best bench in the league. After this move, there's no doubt the Spurs have the best and most talented bench in the league. As long as the starting lineup can stay close, the bench should be able to come in and provide a momentous spark on a consistent basis.


Since the problem has been fast starts followed by late collapses, shifting assets to the bench could also help.

[Keepin' it real]

I've believed for awhile that Ginobili should start. Whatever spark he provides off the bench would be the same spark in the starting lineup. But I do understand the spark-off-the-bench approach.

I like Bonner in the starting lineup so we can see right away of he's got it. If he's hot, keep him in, or he's shooting bricks, then ride the pine.

Bogans' role might be to offset Bonner's defensive deficiencies. This way, we'll have our theoretically best and worst perimeter defenders on the court at the same time. I don't know. Just grasping at straws because in spite of a couple of impressive early-season performances, I haven't seen enough from Bogans to want him getting starter's minutes.

My preferred starting lineup as of right now:
Parker
Ginobili
Hill
Duncan
Bonner

Parker, Hill and Ginobili ... at least one of them would be on the court to handle pt guard duties while the others rest.

Subs:
RJ as the main offensive weapon for the 2nd unit
Blair/McDyess/Ratliff based on opponent size
3-pt shooter ... Mason or Finley

There's your 8-man rotation. Honestly, like others here think, that roster might = playoffs, but it likely doesn't = ring #5.

[VivaPopovich]

Best bench + Worst Starting Lineup = No Championship
Best Bench + Good Starting Lineup = A Chance to Contend/ Possibly Win

Bonner getting more than 10 minutes a game = no chance in hell

at least matt only got 12 minutes

not enough time to do too much damage. thank god

[dbestpro]

Pop could write a book on how to screw up a season when your team is full of allstars.

[Cane]

Against the Pacers I don't really care too much (then again they have been close games).

Its worth noting that last night's starting lineup really only played together for limited minutes: Bonner had 12:32 minutes, Bogans 22:25 mins.

[Xevious]

I don't understand. Bonner ahead of Dice and Blair in the rotation? Really? And We have four bigs in the rotation in Duncan, Bonner, Blair, and Dice (Ratliff really should be getting minutes too). Why are we limiting their minutes in favor of small ball. WTF is Pop doing?

[silverblackfan]

I like trying RJ off the bench, but wish we had someone taller than Bogans to replace him in the starting lineup. I think Bonner is in there for the Corporate knowledge, but you wouldn't have known that from his missed rotations in the 1st quarter....

[galvatron3000]

Anytime you prefer Bonner as a starter you just patching up a hole that will get torn out again as the heavy trucks of contenders pound you when you play and more so in the playoffs. Bonner should have been shopped years ago for something. I like the guy but when he is the most reliable big next to Tim your season is a repeat or worse of last year.

[Doug Collins]

I'm completely indifferent. My mind can no longer handle trying to understand anything Pop does.

[FromWayDowntown]

In a league that is built, more and more, on athleticism, this decision is curious because if anything could have diminished the already-questionable athleticism of the Spurs starting lineup, this is it.

If, however, it helps Jefferson to reclaim his confidence and if it allows the Spurs to exchange strong starts for strong finishes, it could work. But I doubt it will do either of those things.

[MannyIsGod]

Look man, why bother making a post longer than it needs to be about this shit. Its fucking stupid and Pop must have lost his fucking mind.

[MarCowMar]

I voted that I doubt it would be successful, but I can't say I have any better ideas.

It's tempting to put McDyess in for Bonner as a starter, but I think Pop felt McDyess was needed on the bench to play with Blair.

Ginobili over Bogans would be nice, but again I think Pop was considering the bench and wanted a playmaker there. Really I think Finley might do better than Bogans unless his injury has finally done him in. Mason is still here too. :)

At any rate the result is we have a decent starting lineup and a decent bench. This may give us more regular season wins but I can't fathom how it will translate into a championship.

[romsho]

Hot Garbage.

[CGD]

Not sure how I feel on the whole package yet, but I am a BIG fan of RJ to the bench. Dude needs to work on his confidence, and I think this well help.

To the extent this becomes a fixture (and assuming Manu can regain his defensive form), I would also like Pop to consider starting Manu and benching Hill.

[guzmangm]

5. Prior to this move, the Spurs arguably had the best bench in the league. After this move, there's no doubt the Spurs have the best and most talented bench in the league. As long as the starting lineup can stay close, the bench should be able to come in and provide a momentous spark on a consistent basis.

I agree with five. The bench of Gino, Jefferson, Blair, and Mason sounds fun to watch. I say give lineup a chance, because things have worked out really well till now (sarcasm).

[MoSpur]

I am okay with it. Its not like the Spurs were doing great with the previous starting lineup. I think the biggest plus is Jefferson moving to the bench. I don't think he knows how to play with Parker and Duncan. He defers to them too much. I think he plays better with Ginobili. Ginobili isn't score first like Parker is. I also like Blair coming off the bench because him and Ginobili are great off the pick and roll.

I don't like Bonner starting because opposing big men who have decent post moves usually take advantage of Bonner and some abuse him. His rebounding is pathetic for a guy his size. However, he does give the Spurs another outside shooter with Duncan draws two or three defenders.

[lurker23]

I doubt it will work, but I'm taking a wait and see attitude. A few main reasons for this:

1. I kind of doubt it will stay this way for long. I almost feel like Pop is back in tinkering mode for a bit, which is not necessarily a good thing.

2. I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of trade today, even a minor one, that could tweak the lineups a bit.

3. As for the lineup itself, I like the idea of RJ coming off the bench, at least on a trial basis. Problem is, the Spurs don't really have a great option at the 3 in that lineup other than RJ. I'm not a big fan of Bogans there, and I think Mason is too small to pair with Parker and Hill. Honestly, Finley might be the best option on the current roster (other than Hairston, perhaps), and that scares me a bit.

4. I'm not a big fan of Bonner starting at this point. If you want to put McDyess on the bench and/or set up more solid defensive pairings, then I'd rather put Blair back in the starting lineup. I guess I can understand why you'd pair Bonner with Duncan and McDyess with Blair, given Bonner's and McDyess's different abilities to spread the floor, but I'm still not sure it's the best idea.

[sammy]

Worst lineup! Bonner shouldn't even be playing! Lineup with Bonner starting killed us last year and once again Pop doesn't learn! I don't know what he is thinking!:bang

[ElNono]

I don't like it, but we'll see...

I'm not sold that Bonner is the best defensive big man outside of Duncan. I'm not sure if you talked yourself into it LJ, or what. I guess we disagree on the definition of defense. As PJ correctly pointed out last night, defense doesn't end with making a stop, but also boxing out and grabbing a defensive rebound.
Honestly, Dice has been picking up his game considerably as of late, and as far as Blair goes, sure, he's going to have a bad game here and there, like last night. But the kid is already averaging twice the amount of boards of Bonner in the same amount of minutes.

Bogans was a great gamble when he was shooting over 50%... you ride that gravy train until it doesn't give you that anymore. That time is now. If he's not going to be a defensive stopper, then I rather have RJ out there. At least he's a better shooter.

I have no problem with the other 3 starters...

[Walton Buys Off Me]

I can live with Bonner- he spreads the floor and if he's shooting well, will make room for Duncan down low.

That being said, our rebounding and shot blocking will suffer and I'm not for making Tim exert himself on the defensive end too much. His shooting last night may be a reflection of this.

Bogans? I'm at a loss why he's wearing anything other than a sportsjacket. It defies logic.

Start Mason but I guess we're beyond that.

[nkdlunch]

a monster 3 pts and 2 rbs from our starting center last night.

and that's going vs. probably the softest frontline in the NBA, the pacers.

Bravo Pop. Bravo!

[lurker23]

I agree that other than Duncan, Bonner has been the most solid and consistent defensive big man of the 4 regulars. That said, I expect McDyess to continually improve through the rest of the year, and Blair to continually improve through the rest of the decade. Also, if the Spurs don't net a new big man via trade, the excuses for not playing Ratliff have come to an end. He should start steadily getting 5-10 minutes a game and work his way up to 15-20 come playoff time; if that doesn't happen and the defense doesn't gel, I don't know what Pop is thinking, both with current rotations and when he signed Ratliff in the first place.

[Libri]

I'm all for making big changes if it means the Spurs suddenly become the best defensive team in the league and once again allow 90 points or less. I don't think it's going to happen. I'll be keeping an eye on the Spurs opponent ppg average to see if it starts to drop a few digits or not. I'm also interested to see what happens to the offense. Will they continue to average over a hundred points? We will see.

[Kamnik]

I don't have a problem with Bonner. He probably fits best together with TD.

Problem is an undersized Bogans at the SF position. Together with Hill being an undersized SG we have really small wings and that will hurt us in many ways.

But what is an alternative? Jefferson? We already saw he doesn't fit with the starters so maybe playing with Ginobili more could make wonders for him.

WHY NOT EXPERIMENT IF AT THE MOMENT WE ARE NOT A CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER.... with experimenting we at least have a chance to change some things.

[SenorSpur]

Hard to explain or justify this piss-poor starting lineup. In fact, I expected to suddenly hear crickets in my head when Timvp tried to justify Pop's decision. IMO, inserting Bogans and Bonner into the starting five puts this team into an early disadvantage. Essentially, they'll start the game in a hole. I guess Pop is still bemoaning the loss of "corporate knowledge".

I've seen enough of Bonner's act to know that any lineup that features him is destined to fail. The longer he plays, the more he gets exposed. What more do we need to see from him? He tries hard, but been made painfully obvious that he's a role player, not a starter.

By the way, saying that "Bonner is currently the team's best defensive bigman outside of Duncan" is just like saying death by lethal injection is the preferred method over the electric chair.

If Bogans can hit his open looks and step up his defense, perhaps it's salvageable. Then the Spurs will only be playing 4 on 5.

[Spurs Brazil]

Pop has officially lost it

Bonner is playing terrible since the injury. He should get a bunch of DNP-CD

Bogans over RJ also made no sense for me

[Obstructed_View]

Meet the new boss...

[Obstructed_View]

And Pop officially lost it on opening night, folks.

[SenorSpur]

The absolute last thing Pop should be doing is decreasing Blair's minutes.

[timvp]

I went with, "I doubt it will be successful. We'll see."

I'm not quite ready to give up on Pop but this lineup might be the final straw. It has a few decent points but it's laughable to think this lineup is a championship lineup. I literally laugh trying to imagine this lineup leading to any type of postseason success.

[SenorSpur]

I went with, "I doubt it will be successful. We'll see."

I'm not quite ready to give up on Pop but this lineup might be the final straw. It has a few decent points but it's laughable to think this lineup is a championship lineup. I literally laugh trying to imagine this lineup leading to any type of postseason success.

This starting lineup doesn't even translate into regular season success. :lol

Perhaps Pop is seeking to improve his lottery chances?

[galvatron3000]

the second unit should regularly win in the little practice time they get.

Manu
Mason
Jefferson
Blair
Dyess

[Obstructed_View]

"I doubt it will be successful. We'll see." is the only correct answer because it's clear that Pop is going to ride this boat wherever it takes him, regardless of the success or failure of individual players.

In addition, I guess Pop is punishing Blair for showboating during the all-star break by putting him in as many positions to fail as possible and then punishing him for it. He's broken some good players in the past; I wonder if Blair can be ruined?

[DBMethos]

Too many Yes Men in the Spurs organization these days...works fine when we're winning, but when the ship starts to turn it can be disastrous. Somebody seriously needs to stand up to Pop and tell him this shit ain't gonna fly.

[Shifty]

This lineup screams out how much we need a backup (in this case starting) big wing and big man. I don't have anything against each player starting but the combination is awful unless they are raining 3s and even so. We need to package one of our many little used shooters for ANY 6'7-6'8 atlethic player. I mean ANYONE. That way, I wouldn't mind seeing this particular lineup:

Tony
Hill
RJ or ANY 6'7-6'8 athletic player
Bonner
Timmy

Which would leave a scary, big minutes bench of:

Manu
Mason/Finley/Bogans (depending of who gets traded, we just need one of them)
RJ or ANY 6'7-6'8 athletic player
Blair
SAM

Leaving as end of rotation/inactive:
Ian
Rattlif
12th man (Hairston if we trade 2 of our shooters).

If a trade doesn't come, I would be willing to plug Hairston or any other DLeaguer that fits the description.

[ElNono]

"I doubt it will be successful. We'll see." is the only correct answer because it's clear that Pop is going to ride this boat wherever it takes him, regardless of the success or failure of individual players.

In addition, I guess Pop is punishing Blair for showboating during the all-star break by putting him in as many positions to fail as possible and then punishing him for it. He's broken some good players in the past; I wonder if Blair can be ruined?

I'm waiting for Pop to bury Blair's ass on the bench... You know it's coming...

[dastrey]

Pop has probably been wanting to bench RJ for weeks, but kept him in the starting lineup just in case he miraculously boosted his trade value. Now that the Spurs know nobody wants him they have officially gave up on him.

[ElNono]

Who agrees with Pop????

Is that you TPark? :lol

[phyzik]

The second unit looks better than the starting unit at this point.:lol

[Doe]

I think it will ultimately fail but I guess we'll see.

After the Denver game I figured Pop would have a set rotation for the rest of the season but I expected something better than this.

The two ideas that you pointed out and I agree with are: defined offensive roles and defense. Unfortunately we don't have the personnel for the latter. I'm okay with Bonner since he provides great floor spacing and makes good rotations (some of those complaining about the sequence last night where Duncan went for the block and Hibbert wasn't boxed out falls on the guards, Bonner was out on the perimeter guarding Murphy) but I hate having Bogans as a starter. Not only does it put us at a size disadvantage but his defense doesn't nullify that and his offense is pretty bad.

Barring a trade for some defender or big man, I don't see the logic going forward with this lineup. The one good thing I guess is that RJ seemed comfortable coming off the bench. If nothing else, hopefully this lineup can provide consistency. Pop's constant tinkering has been a source of problems in and of itself.

And I gotta agree with lurker23, if Ratliff doesn't starting getting minutes WTF is he on this team?

[Obstructed_View]

Who agrees with Pop????

Is that you TPark? :lol

Expect a wannabe Chumpdumper-type one-liner from him about how we must all want Jerry Tarkanian to coach.

[mexicanjunior]

Terrible starting lineup...if no trade is made today though, it won't matter anyway. They will basically have raised the white flag...maybe this is Pop's way of tanking (crossing fingers).

[galvatron3000]

"I doubt it will be successful. We'll see." is the only correct answer because it's clear that Pop is going to ride this boat wherever it takes him, regardless of the success or failure of individual players.

In addition, I guess Pop is punishing Blair for showboating during the all-star break by putting him in as many positions to fail as possible and then punishing him for it. He's broken some good players in the past; I wonder if Blair can be ruined?

Doubt it, he'll be coveted when his weak contract runs out so he can bid his time til that happens if Pop goes renegade on him. I think he'll be fine and able to ride out the storm of Pop

[My Fault]

I understand the move because of rotations being missed but this only fixes that and not much else. Dice was atleast showing some progress but the switch puts that in reverse. Jefferson I could care less if he starts or comes off the bench cause he's been nothing more but a waste. Bonner played well once he came off the bench and is in no way a good option as a starter...

[ffadicted]

The second unit looks better than the starting unit at this point.:lol

Pretty much

PG - Ginobili
SG - Mason
SF - Jefferson
PF - Blair
C - McDyess

Now that's an elite NBA bench :wow
Too bad our starting lineup sucks major balls

[ElNono]

Pretty much

PG - Ginobili
SG - Mason
SF - Jefferson
PF - Blair
C - McDyess

Now that's an elite NBA bench :wow
Too bad our starting lineup sucks major balls

CIA :pop:

:lol

[doobs]

I can stomach Bonner over McDyess. Bonner has started before and has played pretty well this season. McDyess claims to prefer coming of the bench. And Blair and Duncan shouldn't start alongside one another, IMO, since they occupy the same space.

But Bogans? He's barely an NBA-level talent. He started the season looking like a crappier, shorter Bruce Bowen. Now he' playing like a taller Jacque Vaughn. I'd rather have RJ or Manu or Finley or Mason or Hairston or whoever take minutes at the wing positions. Bogans needs to be racking up DNPs (coach's decision) for the rest of the season, IMO.

Though I guess who starts doesn't matter nearly as much as who finishes.

[Chomag]

I'm waiting for Pop to bury Blair's ass on the bench... You know it's coming...

It's allready starting. :lol

I wonder if he will last in the line up at least as long as Hill did last one.

[z0sa]

Sucks.

Bonner was doing great off the bench pre-injury.
Dyess needs to start and play big minutes if we have any chance (as currently constructed).
Bogans' lack of O and size outweighs his skill level on D.
RJ probably needs to start, but I'm hoping this was just Pop lighting a fire beneath his ass.

[Pero]

Why is there no option "It may work. But I don't trust that Pop knows best."? :D

[Mel_13]

If that's the default starting line-up and rotation for the remainder of the season, then Pop has officially lost it.

The Spurs probably don't have much of chance this year, but whatever chance they do have has to based on playing the big offseason acquisitions. It's still possible RJ and Dice perform close to expectations. At least a much better chance than Bonner and Bogans.

So:

Duncan
Dice
RJ
Hill
Parker

6/7 Manu and Blair
8/9 RMJ and Bonner

That's it. Play them until it works or until you're eliminated.

[timvp]

If that's the default starting line-up and rotation for the remainder of the season, then Pop has officially lost it.

The Spurs probably don't have much of chance this year, but whatever chance they do have has to based on playing the big offseason acquisitions. It's still possible RJ and Dice perform close to expectations. At least a much better chance than Bonner and Bogans.

So:

Duncan
Dice
RJ
Hill
Parker

6/7 Manu and Blair
8/9 RMJ and Bonner

That's it. Play them until it works or until you're eliminated.

Agreed. The scary thing is that PJ last night said that "Pop is going to stick with this lineup for a while". Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like something short-term.

[benefactor]

I have never once said this about the Spurs...but I will say it now. I would rather go to the lottery than see this lineup marched out onto the floor in the playoffs.

[spurs50_]

I think Pop has a little Al Davis in him. His lineups of late have been headscratchers.

[z0sa]

I have never once said this about the Spurs...but I will say it now. I would rather go to the lottery than see this lineup marched out onto the floor in the playoffs.

Disagree. Pop needs to trot this lineup and the rest out there and watch it fail miserably so he can endure some criticism for the rest of the summer.

Your wish may still come true, regardless. These lineups might not be capable of a late season run for the playoffs.

[benefactor]

I had enough of watching them fail last year. I'd rather just end it and get a decent first round pick.

[doobs]

Maybe Pop was trying to showcase Bogans.

I just don't get it.

[Death In June]

I'm okay with RJ coming off the bench. It'll allow him to get more touches, and become more involved as a scorer. If he can build confidence scoring, maybe he'll put forth a better defensive effort. I also think he plays better with Manu on the floor. Bonner over Dice/Blair makes me cringe. As far as the starting SF position, you have your choice between Finely, Bogans, or Mase - all terrible options. I'd think Hariston would be the best option, but that's not gonna happen. So the least offensive, feasible option is RMJ. He plays much better as a starter than he does a backup. He can be used to space the floor, instead of Bonner, and he's the same height Bogans, so you're not losing much. Defensively, Bogans is hugely overrated. I wish we'd have made some attempt to bring in SJ. It seems like GS wasn't looking for much, so it'd of been nice if we had thrown in a couple of expiring to match the 7 mill contract. Then we wouldn't have to decide between Fin, Bogans, or Mase as our f'ing starters.

[ohmwrecker]

Realizing that the prevelent philosophy amongst Spurs fans is "it's not who starts, it's who finishes(or get the most minutes)", I still cannot reconcile the decision to start two players who, I feel, should be at the bottom of the rotation.
I also believe that the main reason for the Spurs "chemistry issues" is the fact that Pop has found himself unable to establish clearly defined roles for every player this late into the season.
I don't unequivocally blame Pop for this situation because having a brand new roster coupled with poor and inconsistant play from just about everyone, has certainly taken it's toll on Pop's dogma and decision making process. That being said, there comes a time where you just have to say "fuck it" and just roll with what you have.
I, personally, would prefer McDyess over Bonner and Jefferson over Bogans. Devil be damned.
This is a very serious topic. I found out exactly how serious on last night's game blog when I made the exaggerative, hyperbolic, tongue in cheek comment about this being "the worst starting 5 in Spurs history".
OK, only EricB took me seriously, and I quickly deduced that he is a stupid asshole and everyone thinks so, but, glib comments aside, I still take this seriously. I expect the "these are our horses" speech from Pop any minute now, so I will just grab some mane, grit my teeth and ride this pony 'til she drops.

Go, Spurs, Go?!

[Obstructed_View]

At this point, I'm glad for the 2006 series against Dallas to get my stomach ready for the last two seasons, as I have plenty of scarring. As I mentioned at the time, it was like watching a dog wander onto the freeway: you know what's probably going to happen but you hope for the best. Looks like we're headed that way again. The nice part is that maybe someone will dig out his quote about how anyone that couldn't win with this team should be fired pretty soon after the Spurs don't make the playoffs.

[DaBears]

Whats sad about this all is we still have not answered any of the questions that this team faces, and i mean many...........

RJ-at leasty showed up this game and played some decent defense at times, bogans well im not quite sure what to think, he is a bit slow and under sized, and constantly gets charging calls against him..in the paint.... Small ball never works, especially in todays game, POP, and Front Office have been around long enough to know this so why they put together a team of smalls i have no clue...

Not too mentioned that we played an inferior team last night and still it came down to the wire lineup change or not this team has made no attempts to get stronger, their play speaks for itself... If this roster is to be set in stone, then god help them, cause against a team with a winning record all the opposing team has to do is shut down 1 of the big 2 and we done.....

I hope something changes, Hill has been and Blair have been the biggest surprises this year and its almost over......

Did i mention we are also still the oldest team in the league, and short to boot.....

[mexicanjunior]

I had enough of watching them fail last year. I'd rather just end it and get a decent first round pick.

Prophecy fulfilled...

[benefactor]

Prophecy fulfilled...
Fuck off.

[Chomag]

Well get some lotion boys because this looks like what we will have for the rest of the season, and we are going to like it!

[mexicanjunior]

Fuck off.

:lol

[benefactor]

:lol
I wish I could be like you and sling shit at the wall repeatedly...then gloat when you finally get a piece to stick. Go back to the Laker forums.

[mexicanjunior]

I wish I could be like you and sling shit at the wall repeatedly...then gloat when you finally get a piece to stick. Go back to the Laker forums.

I'll get right on that Mavs troll...maybe next time you will listen to reason instead of throwing out blatant homerism...

[benefactor]

I'll get right on that Mavs troll...maybe next time you will listen to reason instead of throwing out blatant homerism...
Whatever makes your pussy wet, bitch.

[mexicanjunior]

Whatever makes your pussy wet, bitch.

:toast

Keep it coming...

[wildbill2u]

Why don't we start the bench and use the current starters to come off the bench to give us a spark?

If Pop had stayed with any starting five for more than one game at a time this year we would have 'gelled' and had more cohesion.

[Catfish]

RJ n Tony don't seem to click, just saying.

[NFGIII]

I really don't know what to think at this point. I keep waiting for something to happen. I'm waiting for RJ to be the player we all expected of him, for Bogans to at least hit some open shots and play better D, or Manu return to the Manu of old but to no avail.

As for this lineup the only thing that I liked was for RJ to go to the bench. I agree with Timvp about maybe this helping him regain his old form against lesser players. I stated as such in earlier threads but when you sink so much :greedy in a player you have to play him in order to get something out of it.

Bogans and Bonner are gambles that are going to fail. Two role players as starters? I don't think so. :depressed

At this point this team has little if any chance of getting pass the 2nd round much less of winning a title.

[angel_luv]

I would not go so far to say Pop knows best or that he has gone completely crazy. I am somewhere in between the poll choices and that is why I did not vote.

I think Pop is trying something new, which beats doing nothing and hoping for different results.
If anything, Pop sticking completely with the status quo would lead me to characterize him as insane.

Given how the team has been struggling, I don't see how even any unconventional lineup can hurt anything. Who knows- this could be the answer.

[Old School 44]

I think the line up change was primarily for Jefferson and Parker.

For Jefferson, it was to take the starter role pressure off and also to pair him more with Manu.

For Tony, Jefferson to the bench removes an offensive option he doesn't have to worry about sharing the ball with. Now, he can concentrate on being the number one option on offense and work the PnR with Tim. Everybody else in the starting lineup is basically just filler.

[quentin_compson]

I didn't get to watch the game, but this lineup sounds a little crazy to me. Granted, Bonner only played 13 minutes, which is alright, I guess, but Dice and Blair combined for just 17, which I frankly don't understand (unless it had something to do with a trade about to happen).

At this point, I'd rather see Bonner at the 3 spot than Bogans. This lineup is so undersized it's painful to even think about.

RJ coming off the bench might be something that inspires him in some way to finally show up, but the problem is there ain't another legit SF that could start instead of him.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

So is Jefferson now officially the second-string PF, backing up Matt Bonner?!

[timvp]

Welp, guess there's no formula altering trade.




This starting lineup makes my brain hurt :depressed

[DBMethos]

If I were selecting the lineups, my depth chart would be as follows:

Starters:
Parker
Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
Mahinmi (why the hell not?)

Bench:
Ginobili
Hill
Blair
McDyess
Hairston
Bonner
Bogans/Ratliff depending on matchups

So by that measure, we're basically trotting out our 11th and 12th/13th men as 2/5ths of our starting lineup. Awesome!

[tp2021]

This team this season has been a waste of time. And before Tpark comes in with his dumb shtick, just know that Tim is probably thinking the same thing. Another wasted year of Timmy's late prime. Tim wants to win. This team will not win.

[Chomag]

If I were selecting the lineups, my depth chart would be as follows:

Starters:
Parker
Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
Mahinmi (why the hell not?)

Bench:
Ginobili
Hill
Blair
McDyess
Hairston
Bonner
Bogans/Ratliff depending on matchups

So by that measure, we're basically trotting out our 11th and 12th/13th men as 2/5ths of our starting lineup. Awesome!

Not that I mind but I speak for Pop here: Where is Finley?

[ElNono]

Responding to the thread title... I really try not to think about it too much... :depressed

[tp2021]

Not that I mind but I speak for Pop here: Where is Finley?

:lol

but in all seriousness, he logged 0 min last night IIRC

[barbacoataco]

I think Pop is actually trying to go back to what worked in the past.

he sees Bonner as the 3pt shooting big- aka Horry
he sees Bogans as Bowen's replacement-

[Chomag]

:lol

but in all seriousness, he logged 0 min last night IIRC

They must of had a spaffle in the Hotel room.:lol

[DBMethos]

I think Pop is actually trying to go back to what worked in the past.

he sees Bonner as the 3pt shooting big- aka Horry
he sees Bogans as Bowen's replacement-

If that's true then he's truly gone senile. Unlike Bonner, Horry shot better when the game/season was on the line. He also brought smart defense, timely shotblocking/playmaking, and intangibles to the table. Bogans is a poor man's poor man's Bowen.

[tp2021]

I think Pop is actually trying to go back to what worked in the past.

he sees Bonner as the 3pt shooting big- aka Horry
he sees Bogans as Bowen's replacement-

The problem with this is that Bonner can't rebound, defend, or block shots like Horry. Bogans can't defend or hit 3s like Bruce

[Duncan2177]

Pop is a idiot.

[Brazil]

If I were selecting the lineups, my depth chart would be as follows:

Starters:
Parker
Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
Mahinmi (why the hell not?)

Bench:
Ginobili
Hill
Blair
McDyess
Hairston
Bonner
Bogans/Ratliff depending on matchups

So by that measure, we're basically trotting out our 11th and 12th/13th men as 2/5ths of our starting lineup. Awesome!

I'd go that way because I think if we have a chance it is by playing what we traded for: Jeff and Dice

Starters:
Parker
Hill / Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
Dice

then I'd give the most minutes to
gino
Hill / Mason / Hairston
Ian
Blair

then
spot minutes to
Bonner / Bogans/Ratliff / finley

[Obstructed_View]

I have to take issue with someone referring to Bogans and Bonner as "role players". Bonner shoots well from outside, so he can fill a role. The only thing Bogans fills outside of any clothes Bruce Bowen left in his locker is a spot on the roster.

[Stringer_Bell]

I can live with this line-up, even if it's not just one of those situational line-ups Pop does occasionally.

timvp's Pros were along my line of thought, and I think even though it doesn't look like a bright idea it might help because TP doesn't need the pressure of sharing the ball and RJ doesn't need the pressure of shining when the spotlight is on him. If RJ can beat the other team's scrubs for 20 minutes a game...let the 15million sit on the bench until it's time to play him and we know he'll perform like we need him to. Not quite what we had in mind, but that's what we have now.

[objective]

I've only voted and not read the whole thread but . . .

Jefferson off the bench is something I've floated before. But NOT for Bogans. Bogans is a fringe NBA player who shouldn't be in the regular rotation. The big 3 straight up aren't good enough anymore to carry fringe scrubs like Bogans on their backs. Start Hairston or Mason or whoever, but Bogans isn't better.

Bonner starting . . . whirlwind of depressing failure.

To think at the end of last season people were confident that the Spurs couldn't win with Bonner starting as a big man and a fringe guy starting at SF, be it Finley or Udoka. Because they had proved it.

Flash forward to the all-star break and Bonner is starting and so is a fringe SF, the slightly quicker, weaker Udoka.

:lol

[Mr. Body]

Pop has proven himself inflexible. He hit on a formula for success and has not wavered, even while the pieces have disappeared. His lack of adaptation, especially in bringing players of different psychologies around, has been a major limitation.

[Spurs Brazil]

Listen to coach Brown interview after the game. "Pop thought Bonner is a good option starting because he did a goood job last season and Bogans will play some kind of Bruce role. RJ will give more firepower for the bench with Blair and Manu"

http://www.nba.com/spurs/gameday/100217.html

This lineup is here to stay...:( :( :(

[angelbelow]

who voted for "i agree with pop"? ericB?

[objective]

Listen to coach Brown interview after the game. "Pop thought Bonner is a good option starting because he did a goood job last season and Bogans will play some kind of Bruce role. RJ will give more firepower for the bench with Blair and Manu"

http://www.nba.com/spurs/gameday/100217.html

This lineup is here to stay...:( :( :(

I listened on WOAI and I swear he said something like Bogans is a defensive stopper who plays a Bruce Bowen role.

He didn't sound like he was being sarcastic either.

[PDXSpursFan]

No more experimentation. At this point Pop should settle on a starting lineup with the BEST 5 players and hope that the chemistry can be built before the playoffs:

TD - no explanation needed
TP - no explanation needed
Manu - 3rd best player on the team PERIOD
RJ - currently strugging, but still better than Finley & Bogans
McDyess - better than Bonner and I like Blair coming off the bench to bring energy

Live or die with the best soilders in the fronline.

[Muser]

:lol Bogans being compared to Bowen

[nkdlunch]

I have to take issue with someone referring to Bogans and Bonner as "role players". Bonner shoots well from outside, so he can fill a role. The only thing Bogans fills outside of any clothes Bruce Bowen left in his locker is a spot on the roster.

Even then, Bogans is the best perimeter defender the Spurs currently have.

[benefactor]

:lol Bogans being compared to Bowen
Another veiled Pop comment meant to take a swipe at Bruce.

[Obstructed_View]

Even then, Bogans is the best perimeter defender the Spurs currently have.

Again, I've heard people say that, but there's zero evidence to support it. I'm not sure Bogans isn't the worst perimeter defender the Spurs have now that they've traded away Ratliff's corpse.

[objective]

Bogans didn't look better than Hairston in preseason to my memory.

[Obstructed_View]

who voted for "i agree with pop"? ericB?

Only because there was no "I can't quit you, Pop" choice.

[timvp]

Bogans didn't look better than Hairston in preseason to my memory.

Wasn't Bogans like 3-for-29 in preseason?

[spurtech09]

:(

[crc21209]

Worst starting line-up in the NBA. TP, TD, and Hill- good. But Bonner and Bogans? Seriously? On no other NBA team would these guys be good enough to start...:td

[objective]

Wasn't Bogans like 3-for-29 in preseason?

I was only considering defense in the context of the argument that Bogans would be the best Spurs defensive player.

[timvp]

Antonio McDyess. DeJuan Blair. Matt Bonner. How many NBA coaches would pick Matt Bonner as the starter? Seriously. I'm a longtime Pop supporter but I seriously can't imagine any other coach would go with Bonner.

McDyess by all accounts has been improving. Blair's production speaks for itself. Bonner.

[crc21209]

Antonio McDyess. DeJuan Blair. Matt Bonner. How many NBA coaches would pick Matt Bonner as the starter? Seriously. I'm a longtime Pop supporter but I seriously can't imagine any other coach would go with Bonner.

McDyess by all accounts has been improving. Blair's production speaks for itself. Bonner.

Thank you! Is Pop serious with these lineup's now or is he just trying to be funny?

[Bruno]

I can see the logic on the paper behind playing Bogans and Bonner:
-Teams best perimeter players are starting so starting Bogans, who is described as a defensive specialist, makes sense.
- Duncan and Parker are Spurs main offensive weapons of the starting lineup. They both can't shoot a 3. Having Bonner to space the floor makes sense.

It sounds nice on the paper, but in reality the Bo's aren't good players and don't have the level to start on a good team. Pop is trying too much to play role players who fit instead of playing the best players.

Spurs aren't contenders but they could surely do better with another starting lineup.

[ElNono]

Antonio McDyess. DeJuan Blair. Matt Bonner. How many NBA coaches would pick Matt Bonner as the starter? Seriously. I'm a longtime Pop supporter but I seriously can't imagine any other coach would go with Bonner.

McDyess by all accounts has been improving. Blair's production speaks for itself. Bonner.

It's the plus/minus... duh

[DAF86]

Pop lost it last season and never found it back.

[objective]

It's the plus/minus... duh

:lol

ALL HAIL THE PRINCE OF PLUS/MINUS

OUR SAVIOR HATH RETURNED TO US AT OUR TIME OF GREATEST NEED!

[Spursmania]

I'd like to know who voted that it was the best line-up? Pop's troll? lmao.

[timvp]

:lol

ALL HAIL THE PRINCE OF PLUS/MINUS

OUR SAVIOR HATH RETURNED TO US AT OUR TIME OF GREATEST NEED!

Yes, for the record Bonner remains the team's best plus/minus player for the second straight year. And the Spurs just traded away their worst plus/minus player.

There may be hope yet!

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't see a "Deckchairs on the Titanic" option.

[HarlemHeat37]

The fact that the Spurs didn't make a trade or even try to move Mason tells me that they don't really believe that the team will win a title..which is obvious to everybody..if that's the case, what the fuck is the harm in throwing your young players out and seeing what you have?..there's no point not to..

Give me:

Parker
Hill/Manu/Mason
Jefferson/Hairston
Duncan/Blair/Bonner
Mahinmi/McDyess

Give this rotation a try, you lose nothing from benching Bogans/Finley and only playing Bonner in certain situations..this lineup gives you more versatility and different abilities..more importantly, it gives you an idea of what the Spurs have in the young players..

Hairston's contract isn't fully guaranteed for next year..wouldn't the Spurs playing him in meaningful games give them an idea of whether they want to keep him next year or not?..

With Ian it's more difficult, but there's no harm in it..yes, if he plays well, there's the likelihood that another team will make him a good offer, since teams generally do that with guys with Ian's physical tools..there's also the possibility that he has loyalty to the Spurs..he's good friends with Hairston, he obviously has a relationship with Tony, he obviously has friends in the organization..

If they don't play well, which is obviously very possible, what the fuck changes for the Spurs?..the team ends up in the same position that it was in before giving them a chance..there's just no reason not to do this since the Spurs have NO chance at winning a title..wouldn't it make sense to at least see if you have some long-term pieces?..

This has a 1% chance of happening, but at least it would make for something to watch, like my man objective said..right now, this team is boring as fuck..I don't mean "boring" in the stupid way that casual fans used to call the Spurs when we were a grind-out defensive team, I loved that shit..I mean boring in the sense that there's nothing to watch right now..the success is low, the energy is low and there's no player development going on..

I absolutely loved watching the Spurs with Hairston/Hill/Blair in the preseason..Tony and Manu connected with Hairston for multiple dunks on fast breaks..we saw what happened with Ian vs. the Nets, all the energy and highlights..

[DPG21920]

This is just bad. No way around. Nothing, and I mean nothing makes sense about this lineup. I have absolutely no idea what Pop or the FO is thinking with regards to this team now or the immediate future.

[bigdog]

If I see Bogans and Bonner in the starting lineup next game, I'm going to cry.

[SCdac]

Yeah, If I had to describe this lineup in a couple of words it would be, reversion and regression. Truly puzzling.

[objective]

Remember when Pop went huge with Perdue-Robinson-Duncan after Elliott got hurt?

Man, those were the days . . .

I'd enjoy it if Pop went monster-ball again. Duncan-Mahinmi-Blair/Bonner/McD with Parker and Hill. Just to screw around with it.

[TD 21]

Pop has officially lost it. Wasn't he just talking about how pleased he was with McDyess and how this is how it's going to have to be (McDyess starting, even though he prefers coming off the bench) for the remainder of the season? Now all of a sudden, he's inexplicably pulled for the fourth best big on the team. Only on this team could the second and third best bigs be coming off the bench. If not the top two, then at least two of the top three wings are coming off the bench, as well.

What the fuck is this senile goof doing? Duncan needs to take matters into his own hands because this is well past the point of being ridiculous. It's almost as if Pop is trying to set the team up to not just fail, but embarrass themselves in the process.

You want to know why this team has no chemistry? Because this coach is a fucking retard and is jerking them all around with ridiculous, inexplicable lineups and rotations that drastically change so frequently that no one has a chance to feel comfortable or in a rhythm with anything.

With this stupid fucking starting lineup and Ratliff's being dealt, the Spurs actually managed to get worse, all while conference (and divisional) rivals Mavs and Rockets got better. If Yao is healthy next season and resembles the player he was last season, the Rockets should be head and shoulders above the Spurs next season. The Mavs probably already are after this trade. The Trail Blazers, if their two centers are healthy, should be better and the Thunder, if they're not already, almost certainly will be as well, just from internal improvement. As bad as it looks now, this team will have to fight just to be a 7th or 8th seed next season and let's face it, they're still not guaranteed a playoff spot this season.

[Admidave50]

Lets hope it is Pop's plan to boost everybody's confidence. It sucked really hard that the Spurs didnt make a significant trade, it looks like Pops last desperate move before giving up on this team.

Lets face it, despite of some progress our current team is going nowhere deep in the postseason.
Our team is really lacking of chemistry and it show on team defense.
- Bonner was great before injury. He had confidence in shooting and hustling by coming off the bench, something he never managed to do in the past. We actually won a decent amount of game last year With Bonner in thé starting lineup. I can live with him being in théme starting lineup ONLY IF it boosts his confidence, he plays limited minutes and it doesnt prevent Blair from progressing and we put him on thé bench come playoffs time.

- Bogans played very good early in the season, hes been ineffective since. We CAN only hope he get his swagger back and that putting RJ on the bench relieves him of some pressure and makes him play much better!

- Lets also hope that by starting Bonner, Dice and Blair will play with a vengeance from the bench.

We all know that Pop is a smart Man and that he praises people only to boost their confidence (ex: Hill during the preseason), we can only hope that putting back these scrubs in the starting lineup and saying its a major move/shake up, thats its only one of Pops trick that he believes in Matt and Bogans involvement for the success of the team.

If Tp regain his allstar level, Bonner plays as good as he did before his injury, Bogans is once again a bulldog defender with decent FG%, RJ wakes his ass off, we might have a slight chance to save this season and create some momentum before the playoffs.

One another thing, it looks like Manu can only play at a very good level for a limited time. Lets hope that by surrounding him by RJ and with better player that he will be less tired and that he manages to play longer.

I dont like at all this starting lineup but thats what I try to guess from Pops strategy and I really hope that some of this stuff may work because this season has been pretty depressing So far.

Lets pray one last time... GO SPURS GO

[Obstructed_View]

I can see the logic on the paper behind playing Bogans and Bonner:
-Teams best perimeter players are starting so starting Bogans, who is described as a defensive specialist, makes sense.
- Duncan and Parker are Spurs main offensive weapons of the starting lineup. They both can't shoot a 3. Having Bonner to space the floor makes sense.

It sounds nice on the paper, but in reality the Bo's aren't good players and don't have the level to start on a good team. Pop is trying too much to play role players who fit instead of playing the best players.

Spurs aren't contenders but they could surely do better with another starting lineup.

If that's the logic, then Dice and Mason should be starting. Both have range and can space the floor, which allows Hill to play alongside Manu who handles the ball for the second team. Dice can rebound, block out and change some shots in the paint.

Thus far into the season, I'm still unsure what Bogans is perceived to do for this team other than look a bit like Bruce Bowen from a distance.

[HarlemHeat37]

If that's the logic, then Dice and Mason should be starting. Both have range and can space the floor, which allows Hill to play alongside Manu who handles the ball for the second team. Dice can rebound, block out and change some shots in the paint.

Thus far into the season, I'm still unsure what Bogans is perceived to do for this team other than look a bit like Bruce Bowen from a distance.

:lol

This would make sense and go along with the theory that Pop has truly gone senile..he probably can't tell the difference..

[mingus]

i actually agree with the change to an extent. it's the Spurs best defensive unit. offensively there are several implications. the first being that it now caters to a 1-2 punch of Duncan and Parker and almost everything will run through them. when it doesn't, Pop will try to give Hill an oportunity to create and see if he can take advantage of it. having Bonner in there will really stretch out the floor for him and parker. if this lineup can come together defensively and they play good enough on offense, they should be in every ball game. our second unit wil destroy any other teams second unit whether they gel or not - they're just that talented. they'll be able to create leads or build on them if th first unit gives them a good enough of an opportunity, which i think they can.

[Obstructed_View]

i actually agree with the change to an extent. it's the Spurs best defensive unit. offensively there are several implications. the first being that it now caters to a 1-2 punch of Duncan and Parker and almost everything will run through them. when it doesn't, Pop will try to give Hill an oportunity to create and see if he can take advantage of it. having Bonner in there will really stretch out the floor for him and parker. if this lineup can come together defensively and they play good enough on offense, they should be in every ball game. our second unit wil destroy any other teams second unit whether they gel or not - they're just that talented. they'll be able to create leads or build on them if th first unit gives them a good enough of an opportunity, which i think they can.

The 28 first quarter points they gave up to Indiana might disagree with you there, particularly if you notice the 59 points they gave up in quarters two, three, and four.

[HarlemHeat37]

Keith Bogans is NOT a good defender..I don't know how anybody can watch him and believe he's a good defender..he gets beat ALL the time, he has NO athleticism or quickness, he can't jump..he has no physical attributes that make him a good defender at his current age of 30..

He was an above average defender in the first few weeks of the season, maybe a little longer, but he's been declining ever since..he clearly can't fill that role at his current age, he's already worn out and it's only February..

[The Truth #6]

Is this move intended to push us towards the playoffs? Is it a move to tank the season? What's the difference? Pop is probably trying to improve the team but will end up getting us into the lottery. If he wanted to tank, he'd probably play Ian and Hairston a bunch, and instead we'd probably improve.

I'm curious if Pop thinks everyone is a moron and he's the genius everytime by doing the opposite of what everyone else would do. That behavior looked a lot smarter when the Big 3 were in their prime.

This new starting lineup is fairly pathetic but maybe the improved bench will do better than we think...I guess that's the bright side.

[galvatron3000]

I wanna vote but there is nothing for Laughable available

[ElNono]

This is what the Lakers think...

http://i39.tinypic.com/29awmj4.gif

[ducks]

booner started but played 1 quarter of the game

it really does not matter who starts for the spurs
it is the minutes played that makes the difference

[ElNono]

It matter who starts... it matters because it takes a lot of energy to play catchup and to get out of holes that shitty lineups get you into... You want a solid enough starting 5 to set the tone for the game...

[Obstructed_View]

booner started but played 1 quarter of the game

it really does not matter who starts for the spurs
it is the minutes played that makes the difference

And booner gave up lots and lots of points.

[silverblk mystix]

every time i read that bonner spreads the floor for duncan...i want to kill someone...duncan has not attacked anyone in a couple of seasons...i love duncan...but who says that the spurs will be better by having duncan be a prime low-post SCORING threat...
run the offense THROUGH duncan---yes---it will work---but spreading the floor (with bonner) and RELYING on duncan to be duncan of five years ago is crazy...

every mediocre player BLOCKS at least 3 of his shots...stop trying to force duncan to carry you---let him be what he is...an excellent starting forward/center who can still defend,rebound, score in the flow of the game and make his teammates better...
couln't this be done withOUT bonner?

make parker and RJ the MAIN scorers...put some size in the lineup and make other teams MATCH-UP to the spurs!

i am really disappointed in pop---he has completely lost his way-----yes he HAS been a great coach---in the PAST...

[HarlemHeat37]

every time i read that bonner spreads the floor for duncan...i want to kill someone...duncan has not attacked anyone in a couple of seasons...i love duncan...but who says that the spurs will be better by having duncan be a prime low-post SCORING threat...
run the offense THROUGH duncan---yes---it will work---but spreading the floor (with bonner) and RELYING on duncan to be duncan of five years ago is crazy...

every mediocre player BLOCKS at least 3 of his shots...stop trying to force duncan to carry you---let him be what he is...an excellent starting forward/center who can still defend,rebound, score in the flow of the game and make his teammates better...
couln't this be done withOUT bonner?

make parker and RJ the MAIN scorers...put some size in the lineup and make other teams MATCH-UP to the spurs!

i am really disappointed in pop---he has completely lost his way-----yes he HAS been a great coach---in the PAST...

:rollin:rollin:rollin

[itzsoweezee]

statistically, the lineup that started before the break was the best spurs lineup.

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910SAS2.HTM

popovich is just out of his damned mind. no justification for such stupidity.

[timtonymanu]

the lineup blows.

there's a reason Bonner is playing better this year -- he's more suitable as a bench player. Starting him makes him play like a pussy. He's allergic to starting for some reason.

No matter how much RJ is struggling, he should still be starting. Bogans has no business starting because he brings nothing. His defense is below average and his offense is much worse.

Parker - Hill - Jefferson - Duncan - McDyess

I dont know why this lineup was bad. It did make us blow out Denver on the road, even though Parker didn't play.

[xtremesteven33]

Popovich is drunk on power. Hes the captain he can do whatever the hell he wants.

My question is, is Duncan on the same page with Pop? Does Pop run everything thru Duncan first? Smallball for example. Everyone knows Pop throws out small lineups,but does he do it cause Tim wants it that way?

Over the Allstar weekend Craig Seger reported that Duncan wanted to play with all four PG at the same time. He requested that to George Karl. Does Duncan love smallball? Is this Duncans doing just as much as it is Pops?

[SenorSpur]

I didn't see a "Deckchairs on the Titanic" option.

:lol

I thought that to myself when I saw the options.

[SenorSpur]

Popovich is drunk on power. Hes the captain he can do whatever the hell he wants.

My question is, is Duncan on the same page with Pop? Does Pop run everything thru Duncan first? Smallball for example. Everyone knows Pop throws out small lineups,but does he do it cause Tim wants it that way?

Over the Allstar weekend Craig Seger reported that Duncan wanted to play with all four PG at the same time. He requested that to George Karl. Does Duncan love smallball? Is this Duncans doing just as much as it is Pops?

I've thought about this before. Other than Holt, who doesn't make personnel decisions, who checks Pop? Of course, when your team is winning, it's not an issue. However the point is RC and Pop are supposed to balance each other. Does this actually happen? Who breaks the tie, when they have disagreements. Of course, no of us truly know the parameter of their working relationship.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Lineups with this team don't seem to work out no matter how much Pop screws with things. He has allowed the NBA game to pass him by. This team is a bad mixture of too old and too young coupled with terribly low basketball IQ and topped off with the fact we are about the least athletic team in the NBA. Hell, these guys don't even have the bball IQ of Junior Hi players.

Oh yeah, small ball may work for a particular game but, not for a series. All Pop needs to do is ask Nellie.

[xtremesteven33]

I've thought about this before. Other than Holt, who doesn't make personnel decisions, who checks Pop? Of course, when your team is winning, it's not an issue. However the point is RC and Pop are supposed to balance each other. Does this actually happen? Who breaks the tie, when they have disagreements. Of course, no of us truly know the parameter of their working relationship.


Pop is the Alpha and Omega of the Spurs. It just gets me mad that he doesnt own up to his own bullshit.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Pop is the Alpha and Omega of the Spurs. It just gets me mad that he doesnt own up to his own bullshit.


Well said...!:tu

[spurs10]

Well, we're not going to go far giving up 28 points in the 1st quarter. I can't imagine going with this group in Philly. We were very lucky to get over that bad start last night. The Sixers have been a tough win for us on the road, with TP less than 100%, it's won't be easy.

[SenorSpur]

Pop is the Alpha and Omega of the Spurs. It just gets me mad that he doesnt own up to his own bullshit.

...and he's not going to either.

Are you saying that RC is Pop's bitch?

[poop]

Bonner starting = the other team automatically starts off strong and builds an initial lead.

[Manu20]

Parker-Hill-Jefferson-McDyess-Duncan

This should be the starting lineup until the end of the season.

[xtremesteven33]

...and he's not going to either.

Are you saying that RC is Pop's bitch?


Pop reminds me of Vince Mcmahon. To put it that way...

[SouthTexasRancher]

Parker-Hill-Jefferson-McDyess-Duncan

This should be the starting lineup until the end of the season.


What??????????? Absolutely not. RJ just flat out doesn't mix with that setup. RJ is more suited for coming off the bench at this point. He could mix well with Manu & Blair in that setting.

[xtremesteven33]

Parker
Hill
Ginobili
Duncan
Bonner

If you wanna play small and not emphasis frontcourt defense than go all out on offense. Stop bringing Manu off the bench if RJ is aleady coming off. RJ can fill that role decently IMO. Manu himself has said that the SF/SG position are basically the same so it wouldnt make a difference X's and O's wise.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Parker
Hill
Ginobili
Duncan
Bonner

If you wanna play small and not emphasis frontcourt defense than go all out on offense. Stop bringing Manu off the bench if RJ is aleady coming off. RJ can fill that role decently IMO. Manu himself has said that the SF/SG position are basically the same so it wouldnt make a difference X's and O's wise.


That'll work.

[VI_Massive]

I haven't read through all these posts so please excuse me if this has been said already:

I don't think Pop will stick with this lineup at all. It failed terribly in the first few minutes of the first half against Indiana and Pop went away from it pretty quickly. Maybe Pop tried this for one or two more games, but I doubt it will last for very long.

Bogans has fallen off so much that he and RJ aren't that different defensively now and RJ brings more size and scoring.

I hate to sound overly hopeful, but I think Pop will move away from the smallball lineup. He went heavily with it against the Pacers because they played Granger at the 4 a lot, but if other teams don't go that way, I think Pop will play Dice and Blair more, depending on matchups. Bonner actually made a bit more sense against Troy Murphy because they're similar players, but against more traditional front lines, I see Blair and Dice playing more.

[SCdac]

It's not even just the lineup itself that's frustrating, it's the fact that starting lineup has changed I believe 14 times now. Yes, we got a bunch of new players, but the way Pop has played them we've never gotten away from that "new", never had a rotation that sticks for more than maybe 5-6 games. Antonio McDyess was a key piece in Detroit and knows the ropes of the NBA, it's mind-boggling why he hasn't been key for us, despite underwhelming play. We've given him Francisco Elson treatment, perhaps for at times looking like Elson out there, but it's completely known what he is capable of, there is no question (IMO), and he's a Spurs kind of guy. With him and Jefferson, we need to play them till they get better, not idly wait and sit them when they're lost, because frankly both these guys are playing significantly less minutes than last season and the season prior, and that has stunted the process (IMO). Matt Bonner is so last season, it's scary that him in the starting lineup is some sort of "answer".

[ElNono]

It's not even just the lineup itself that's frustrating, it's the fact that starting lineup has changed I believe 14 times now. Yes, we got a bunch of new players, but the way Pop has played them we've never gotten away from that "new", never had a rotation that sticks for more than maybe 5-6 games. Antonio McDyess was a key piece in Detroit and knows the ropes of the NBA, it's mind-boggling why he hasn't been key for us, despite underwhelming play. We've given him Francisco Elson treatment, perhaps for at times looking like Elson out there, but it's completely known what he is capable of, there is no question (IMO), and he's a Spurs kind of guy. With him and Jefferson, we need to play them till they get better, not idly wait and sit them when they're lost, because frankly both these guys are playing significantly less minutes than last season and the season prior, and that has stunted the process (IMO). Matt Bonner is so last season, it's scary that him in the starting lineup is some sort of "answer".

It's because nowadays we need to match up with Jim O'Brien team... Dice played 7(!) minutes last night...

You would think he would get playing time and keep on building on the good games he had lately.

And even worse, he got demoted to the bench...

[pjjrfan]

I don't like it, especially having Bonner in the starting lineup, but I'm glad Pop sat RJ's ass down.

[barbacoataco]

The fact that the Spurs didn't make a trade or even try to move Mason tells me that they don't really believe that the team will win a title..which is obvious to everybody..if that's the case, what the fuck is the harm in throwing your young players out and seeing what you have?..there's no point not to..

Give me:

Parker
Hill/Manu/Mason
Jefferson/Hairston
Duncan/Blair/Bonner
Mahinmi/McDyess

Give this rotation a try, you lose nothing from benching Bogans/Finley and only playing Bonner in certain situations..this lineup gives you more versatility and different abilities..more importantly, it gives you an idea of what the Spurs have in the young players..

Hairston's contract isn't fully guaranteed for next year..wouldn't the Spurs playing him in meaningful games give them an idea of whether they want to keep him next year or not?..

With Ian it's more difficult, but there's no harm in it..yes, if he plays well, there's the likelihood that another team will make him a good offer, since teams generally do that with guys with Ian's physical tools..there's also the possibility that he has loyalty to the Spurs..he's good friends with Hairston, he obviously has a relationship with Tony, he obviously has friends in the organization..

If they don't play well, which is obviously very possible, what the fuck changes for the Spurs?..the team ends up in the same position that it was in before giving them a chance..there's just no reason not to do this since the Spurs have NO chance at winning a title..wouldn't it make sense to at least see if you have some long-term pieces?..

This has a 1% chance of happening, but at least it would make for something to watch, like my man objective said..right now, this team is boring as fuck..I don't mean "boring" in the stupid way that casual fans used to call the Spurs when we were a grind-out defensive team, I loved that shit..I mean boring in the sense that there's nothing to watch right now..the success is low, the energy is low and there's no player development going on..

I absolutely loved watching the Spurs with Hairston/Hill/Blair in the preseason..Tony and Manu connected with Hairston for multiple dunks on fast breaks..we saw what happened with Ian vs. the Nets, all the energy and highlights..

Absolutely agree. Players like Bogans are not the future of the Spurs. This season is confusing and I can't figure out if the FO thinks they can win this year, or if they are more or less rebuilding/waiting for Splitter.

[spurtech09]

r you kidding me...bonner in the starting line-up means pop doesn't know what hes doing anymore.....pop needs to retire......o yeah and add Ian to the line- up already

[TD 21]

I haven't read through all these posts so please excuse me if this has been said already:

I don't think Pop will stick with this lineup at all. It failed terribly in the first few minutes of the first half against Indiana and Pop went away from it pretty quickly. Maybe Pop tried this for one or two more games, but I doubt it will last for very long.

Bogans has fallen off so much that he and RJ aren't that different defensively now and RJ brings more size and scoring.

I hate to sound overly hopeful, but I think Pop will move away from the smallball lineup. He went heavily with it against the Pacers because they played Granger at the 4 a lot, but if other teams don't go that way, I think Pop will play Dice and Blair more, depending on matchups. Bonner actually made a bit more sense against Troy Murphy because they're similar players, but against more traditional front lines, I see Blair and Dice playing more.

Of course he won't. He won't stick with any fucking lineup because then the team might actually start developing some chemistry and continuity. As much as this team isn't constructed to win a championship, the coaching has been so deplorable that even if they were, it's not giving them a chance.

Only on the Spurs could the second and third best bigs be coming off the bench and at minimum, two of the three best wings. It's ludicrous. You don't have to start your five best players, but why are two guys who don't rank in the top eight on the team in terms of talent starting? It's incomprehensible.

[TDomination]

It's not even just the lineup itself that's frustrating, it's the fact that starting lineup has changed I believe 14 times now. .
I agree

Honestly at this point, I truly wouldn't mind if this was the starting line-up for the rest of the year, as long as he keeps it that way. Let them become comfortable with their roles. Lets set a rotation, every player needs to know what their role is.

It has been a guessing game for these players this whole year, not knowing how much they will play, when they will play and for how long.

Lets have consistency somewhere, and if this is the line-up he chooses to use, so be it. JUST KEEP IT THAT WAY and not change it because we are playing a certain team.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm with you to a point TDom, but I wish it didn't have to come down to "starters give up a large lead, reserves have to dig out of it".

[elbamba]

If Pop wants to address chemistry issues use this lineup the rest of the year, it is the only lineup that will work and solve chemistry while giving the SPurs a shot to contend with LA:
C--Dice
PF--Duncan
SG/SF--Hill
SG/SF--Mason
PG--Parker

First sub is Blair for Dice
Second sub Manu and Jefferson for Hill and Mason
Third Sub Bonner and Hill for Duncan and Parker

We will play nine players deep and use KB as a 3-5 min a game player when we need to rest overworked players. Ian, to my displeasure will be the 12th man.

Pop will have to give 30-32 a game to Jefferson and 25-28 min to Manu. Pop will have to give 15-20 min to Dice and 20 min to Blair (at least) with Bonner getting his minutes when Duncan rests 10-12 min (est.)

If Pop takes Blair out of the picture, Spurs do not stand a chance. Blair is a double digit scorer right now. Neither Dice nor Bonner is a doubtl digit scorer. Blair has good hands and is a double digit rebounder (including offensive) Neither Dice nor Bonner are double digit rebounders.

This team is underperforming because Pop is screwing with the chemistry and rotation. His ridiculous changes throughout the year have cost this team 5-8 games (which is a big deal this year as opposed to years past). He has more talent than this team has seen since 2005. This team has better players than 2007 even though Manu and Tony are not as good as thier 2007 versions.

Finally, Small Ball must end. Pop can use it in stretches against certain teams, but come playoff time, we will get burned by just about any western conference team if we run small ball for more than 3-5 min.

[Brazil]

- Duncan and Parker are Spurs main offensive weapons of the starting lineup. They both can't shoot a 3. Having Bonner to space the floor makes sense.



you forget that TP shot 2 treys against Indiana, he is now a lethal threat at the 3 pts line :p:

[Mhak]

epic fail!!!

[Mhak]

Pops need to play a lot of them more minutes!!! Yes your resting them for the playoff but for the whole year playing less minutes c'mon your body needs to adjust to more minutes as well....

Pop is just plane lost it back circa 2007

[doobs]

Why not start the game with 3 bigs (for 5-6 minutes)?

Parker
Hill
Bonner (basically a perimeter player anyway)
Blair
Duncan

Bring Manu, RJ, and McDyess off the bench. Mason, Bogans, and Finley get spot minutes.

[Pentagruel]

I don't mind Bonner starting at Center. I don't like Bogans in there. He is simply terrible. I understand Pop wants to refocus on defense and put in his best defensive players but Bogans is not a good defender and even worse on the offensive end.

Perhaps bringing Jefferson off the bench was a good decision to settle him down and allow him some more touches to get in a groove without Tony and Duncan ahead of him. Why not move Manu in the starting lineup to replace him? Stick Bogans to the pine where he belongs for the duration of the game save 8-10 minutes.

[doobs]

This is what I see for the second half:

+30 mpg = Parker, Duncan, RJ

25-30 mpg = Manu, Hill, McDyess

20-25 mpg = Blair, Bonner

15-20 mpg = Mason

10-15 mpg = Finley, Bogans

<10 mpg = Mahinmi, Hairston

I have no idea if this adds up.

[easy7]

I wish there could have been a "would rather become a Mavs fan, Lakers fan, etc... than to play that starting line up" option..

[objective]

This whole 'starting lineup' thing is hurting Matt Bonner's plus/minus numbers in a bad way.

If that continues, I'm worried the Spurs might think twice before re-signing him this summer.

[TJastal]

New poll idea: "Which spurstalk poster was the one who voted it was a good idea?"

Tpark/EricB 4/1 odds
Chumpdumper 6/1 odds
Pentagruel 7/1 odds

Place your bets now! :rofl

[timaios]

New poll idea: "Which spurstalk poster was the one who voted it was a good idea?"

Tpark/EricB 4/1 odds
Chumpdumper 6/1 odds
Pentagruel 7/1 odds

Place your bets now! :rofl

It was JohnD99.

You know you can see the names of the voters, right ?

[TJastal]

It was JohnD99.

You know you can see the names of the voters, right ?

Well I used to be able to do a lot of things, but now I can't post new threads, edit posts, vote in polls (or see who voted), run searches, and participate in vbookie. I had all these priviledges taken away over a thread about Splitter. :rolleyes

Ah well, I'll wear this punishment like a badge because Splitter is going to leave the spurs at the altar AGAIN next year, and I could hardly blame him with the state of the spurs right now.

[quentin_compson]

Why the hell is Bogans starting at SF? Pop cannot seriously be thinking that this improves our defense, can he?

[The Truth #6]

No matter what lineup Pop puts out there its not going to change the fact that almost every player is playing beneath their potential or what they've done in the past. Malik and Ian probably aren't going to be saviors but playing them would be a true experiment because he's played everybody else in various situations and the results are fairly predictable at this point.

Pop can't make some of these players get younger or play better but if he really wants to experiment he can attempt to play Ian or Malik to see if they could add some spark. Right now the team has no life or spark as everyone is either run down, lost, or both.

Of course these points have been written over and over again since the beginning of the season, and as others have said, that is what makes the team boring right now. These last 30 games feel like watching a cancer grow.

[8FOR!3]

Iggy was having his way with Bogans in there. We need to take him out, he might be bearable at SF if he was big enough. I wouldn't even be too upset with starting Bonner at center if he took Bogans out. Bonner's not as bad as everybody makes him out to be.

[sammy]

Second game in a row he starting the loser lineup with Bonner & Bogans and it didn't take long for the subs to come in when Bonner couldn't defend and was throwing bricks! The lineup is awful and Timmy deserves better.:bang

Timmy
Dice
Mason
Hill
Parker

Manu
RJ
Blair/Ian
Bogans
Finley