The Spurs have traded Theo Ratliff to Charlotte, source tells Y! Sports.

[blkroadrunners]

To keep Ian inactive.

Pretty much.

[ElNono]

Why not, was worth a shot at the time, now it isn't. Did you really expect him to play 20+ minutes a game?

Why not? Why not 5 or 10?
Is he injured? He has played games for us... Is Finley at PF better?

[baseline bum]

Having Ratliff was useless for a team that has no shot at contending, and at least Holt gets $1.6M or so back on the huge investment he made that blew up in his face this season.

[Libri]

I leave for half an hour and there's news the Spurs made a trade. Maybe I should leave again, this time for two hours.

[MrFundamental]

Why not? Why not 5 or 10?
Cause he wouldn't last the season playing 5-10 min/game. The last time he came close to playing an entire season was 03.


Is he injured? He has played games for us... Is Finley at PF better?
Yes, Finley is better... :rolleyes (see: false dichotomy)

[timvp]

Somebody remind me again why did we sign Theo at all?

They didn't know Blair would be this good. With Bonner starting, there are four legit bigs who need to be in the rotation. Add in small ball and Ratliff wasn't going to play much at all anymore.

[ashbeeigh]

Nevermind. I'm always late to the party.

[objective]

And if Mahinmi hasn't been traded, it's quite in-understandable.

Either Spurs tried to trade him and failed at it or they wanted to keep it.

Mahinmi hasn't been mentioned in a single trade rumor and I think he could have been traded quite easily to the Nets. It doesn't look like Spurs have really try to trade him.

I don't see the point in keeping Ian. It will cost some money and won't help the team short or long term wise. Short term wise, Ian is still raw and would do mistakes. Long term wise, his contract makes the situation extremely complicated.

I'm lost.

The plot of the tv show LOST makes more sense than how the Spurs have handled Mahinmi.

[ElNono]

Cause he wouldn't last the season playing 5-10 min/game. The last time he came close to playing an entire season was 03.

So you're telling me it didn't make sense to sign him up in the first place...
Which contradicts what you said 3 posts ago...


Yes, Finley is better... :rolleyes (see: false dichotomy)

How is it a false dichotomy? Has Pop not played Finley next to Duncan at PF while Theo was sitting on the bench?

[PM5K]

Great, now we can pick up Drew Gooden ;-)

[timvp]

And if Mahinmi hasn't been traded, it's quite in-understandable.

Either Spurs tried to trade him and failed at it or they wanted to keep it.

Mahinmi hasn't been mentioned in a single trade rumor and I think he could have been traded quite easily to the Nets. It doesn't look like Spurs have really try to trade him.

I don't see the point in keeping Ian. It will cost some money and won't help the team short or long term wise. Short term wise, Ian is still raw and would do mistakes. Long term wise, his contract makes the situation extremely complicated.

I'm lost.

Yeah, it really doesn't make much sense. Salary dumping Mahinmi seemed like a given. Now we'll have to see if the Spurs buy him out. If they don't, it'll REALLY be confusing.

If you play him this year, he'll likely suck and hurt the team or play well enough to the point he can't be kept in the offseason. Both seem like negatives.

Not playing him with the hopes of signing him in the offseason to a small contract may be the plan ... but they would have traveled a weird route to get to that point. Mahinmi remains a mystery.

Although, hopefully now a uniformed mystery :smokin

[ElNono]

They didn't know Blair would be this good. With Bonner starting, there are four legit bigs who need to be in the rotation. Add in small ball and Ratliff wasn't going to play much at all anymore.

Exactly. Like I said, further confirmation we're going with small ball all the way...

[ElNono]

Having Ratliff was useless for a team that has no shot at contending, and at least Holt gets $1.6M or so back on the huge investment he made that blew up in his face this season.

This makes sense too. Try to trim where he can. That's why I'm surprised we didn't dump Ian's salary also.

[MrFundamental]

So you're telling me it didn't make sense to sign him up in the first place...
Yes :rolleyes...

I'm telling you at the time (considering the season isn't static) it was a decent move, now the negatives outweigh the positives in keeping him. Is it that hard to understand?


How is it a false dichotomy? Has Pop not played Finley next to Duncan at PF while Theo was sitting on the bench?Just because I don't care that Ratliff is gone, doesn't mean Finley is better at PF. IOW, just because it's not Monday doesn't make it Thursday.

[Spursmania]

There is no "source" for the DJ Augustine part. It was only speculation on the board. Looks more like it's only for cap relief and maybe a second round pick or somethign of the like. Numbers woul dnever work with DJ for Theo. Theo is only making the veteran minimum.

Why am I not surprised? So, that's all we did. Unload Theo?
Great...

[MrFundamental]

Having Ratliff was useless for a team that has no shot at contending, and at least Holt gets $1.6M or so back on the huge investment he made that blew up in his face this season.
Bingo, it was assumed after the RJ trade that this team would go a ways into the postseason (and gain the extra flow of money that comes with it); now, not so much.

[Spurs Brazil]

Bonner starting

:depressed:depressed:depressed

I can't believe we'll have to see this again. It failed big time last season and now we'll see Bonner starting again

UNBELIEVABLE

:pctoss:pctoss:pctoss

[crc21209]

Bonner sucks...plain and simple. On no other NBA team would this guy be starting, except the Spurs. Why? I don't know....:depressed

[ElNono]

Yes :rolleyes...

I'm telling you at the time (considering the season isn't static) it was a decent move, not the negatives outweigh the positives in keeping him. Is it that hard to understand?

How is a decent move to sign up a vet that can't even play 20 minutes a night (according to you), that's 37 years old, that has a bad back (according to you), that has been unable to play an entire season in 7 years and when your plan is to play small ball anyways?

You need to step up your game, Mr Fundamental.


Just because I don't care that Ratliff is gone, doesn't mean Finley is better at PF. IOW, just because it's not Monday doesn't make it Thursday.

You're the one claiming that we shipped Ratliff because he's a washed up 37 years old. Yet, we have room to play a soon to be 37 year old washed up Finley playing the PF role.

I don't really care we moved Ratliff either since Pop was not going to play him. He's obviously in love with small ball, that he won't give anybody taller than 6'10 a chance. Young (Ian) or old (Ratliff). Just don't ask me to be pleased about it.

[Obstructed_View]

They are only gonna dress 11?

If he's in uniform sitting on the bench and not playing I don't quite understand how you think that's a change in the rotation. I know you're desperate to give Pop credit for this move as if it actually improves the team instead of being a strict salary/lux tax dump, but stop being obtuse. Even you aren't this dumb.

[objective]

Just because I don't care that Ratliff is gone, doesn't mean Finley is better at PF. IOW, just because it's not Monday doesn't make it Thursday.

SpursDays of the week . . .

Sunday : McDyess at the 4/5
Monday : Tall C/PF at the 4/5 (Ratliff/Ian) (mondays never happen)
Tuesday : Jefferson at the 4/5
Wednesday : Bonner at the 4/5
Thursday : Finley at the 4/5
Friday : Ginobili at the 4/5
Saturday : Bogans at the 4/5

Any day of the week, the ship be sinkin'.

:lol

[crc21209]

:depressed:depressed:depressed

I can't believe we'll have to see this again. It failed big time last season and now we'll see Bonner starting again

UNBELIEVABLE

:pctoss:pctoss:pctoss

Hearing Bonner's name being yelled out by the PA announcer as the starting Center makes me wanna :vomit:

[timvp]

:depressed:depressed:depressed

I can't believe we'll have to see this again. It failed big time last season and now we'll see Bonner starting again

UNBELIEVABLE

:pctoss:pctoss:pctoss

Exactly. I have supported Bonner as a bench player. He's actually pretty useful in that role. But as a starter? It's literally mind boggling. I can't even type straight.

And then perhaps even worse, we have to watch Bogans start.

There's a good chance this will be a very painful final 30 games or whatever it is.

[Mr. Body]

Every time you hear the word 'Bonner' think the word 'Scola'. Because that's who we could have had.

[ElNono]

Every time you hear the word 'Bonner' think the word 'Scola'. Because that's who we could have had.

Scola thread!!

[MrFundamental]

How is a decent move to sign up a vet that can't even play 20 minutes a night (according to you), that's 37 years old, that has a bad back (according to you), that has been unable to play an entire season in 7 years and when your plan is to play small ball anyways?
How much was he paid? And who said Pop's plan was to play small ball the whole year, or that Ratliff was signed to play 20 min/night?


You need to step up your game, Mr Fundamental.
You need to get some game ;)




You're the one claiming that we shipped Ratliff because he's a washed up 37 years old. Yet, we have room to play a soon to be 37 year old washed up Finley playing the PF role.
Whoopdie-frickin-doo. Are those 2 the exact same players :nope


I don't really care we moved Ratliff either since Pop was not going to play him. He's obviously in love with small ball, that he won't give anybody taller than 6'10 a chance. Young (Ian) or old (Ratliff). Just don't ask me to be pleased about it.
Yeah, you're right. Duncan must have shrunk... :rolleyes

As I said, get some game...

[crc21209]

Exactly. I have supported Bonner as a bench player. He's actually pretty useful in that role. But as a starter? It's literally mind boggling. I can't even type straight.

And then perhaps even worse, we have to watch Bogans start.

There's a good chance this will be a very painful final 30 games or whatever it is.

It fucking BLOWS. Seriously, I could pick any little two year old boy in the world and line-up the entire Spurs roster and tell him to pick the 5 best guys or 5 to start and end a game and I guarantee you none of them would say "Oh I pick the funny-looking red-head guy!" No way no how...

[SCdac]

For the record I think this is a good move, if it was a certainty that Ratliff was not going to be in the rotation this season. Getting 1.6 million back or whatever it is, is better than nothing, and maybe helps to prevent Holt from having a heart attack from our dismal season... None the less, it's become clear that there is only one "center" on our roster that Pop trusts (Duncan, if you want to call him a C), and any other big is just going to be a center by default in a small-ball lineup. Unfortunately, we've never won a championship that way.

[MrFundamental]

It fucking BLOWS. Seriously, I could pick any little two year old boy in the world and line-up the entire Spurs roster and tell him to pick the 5 best guys or 5 to start and end a game and I guarantee you none of them would say "Oh I pick the funny-looking red-head guy!" No way no how...
Yeah, we should choose a roster on looks. :rollin

[rascal]

Leave it to the Spurs to do the opposite of what was expected. You think big move and/or dump Mahinmi. They make a small move to allow Mahinmi to suit up for games.

At least Mahinmi actually will have a chance to earn minutes. You can't earn minutes in a sport coat.

Did you really expect a big move? The spurs are not known for big trades and chances were higher they would not make any big move.

[crc21209]

Yeah, we should choose a roster on looks. :rollin

You know damn well Matt Bonner doesnt look like he would be a good basketball player, and he's not. He doesnt look like an athlete worthy of being a starter on this damn team...

[Chomag]

So about a year later after going out in the first round the only thing that has changed(since bonner is back at center) in the starting line up is Bogans? Not very high expectations I might say.

[ElNono]

How much was he paid? And who said Pop's plan was to play small ball the whole year, or that Ratliff was signed to play 20 min/night?

Does it matter? He has a bad back. He's 37 years old. He hasn't played an entire season since '03. :rolleyes


Whoopdie-frickin-doo. Are those 2 the exact same players :nope

I see. You're OK with playing Finley at PF while we had Ratliff on the bench.
Gotcha.


Yeah, you're right. Duncan must have shrunk... :rolleyes

Make sure you don't fall. You're backpedaling too fast...

[Spursmania]

:bang:bang:bang

You're right. A year later we are in the same position except we might not even make the playoffs.

FU RJ!

[objective]

Exactly. I have supported Bonner as a bench player. He's actually pretty useful in that role. But as a starter? It's literally mind boggling. I can't even type straight.

And then perhaps even worse, we have to watch Bogans start.

There's a good chance this will be a very painful final 30 games or whatever it is.

The last 30 games would be fun to watch if Pop put down the lead-laced wine and just started Mahinmi and Hairston instead of the EVSB, expiring vet scrub brigade.

It would be exciting up and down basketball. Especially all the fastbreaks the other team would get off Ian and Malik turnovers. I'm not saying that's a con, it's a plus.

Breathe some fire into this lackluster, moaning team. Remember how excited Timmy was on the bench for Ian during the Nets game?

Damn, it would be a fun 30 games. After times when Ian would get 4 fouls in 12 minutes people would be screaming for Pop's head, when Malik would lose a guy around a pick . . .

It would be good, even when it's bad. Watching the same old boring crap movie that lost in the 1st last year to a worse Dallas team . . . with the same Bonner and Pseudo-Udoka . . . God, what a travesty.

[ElNono]

At least Manu is healthy... :jack

[ABrooks111]

Championship!

I truly think moving Theo Ratliff for $11 and a tugjob is what will put us over the top.

[Chomag]

At least Manu is healthy... :jack

Yep, but which could be his final year with Spurs. :(

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, it really doesn't make much sense. Salary dumping Mahinmi seemed like a given. Now we'll have to see if the Spurs buy him out. If they don't, it'll REALLY be confusing.

If you play him this year, he'll likely suck and hurt the team or play well enough to the point he can't be kept in the offseason. Both seem like negatives.

Not playing him with the hopes of signing him in the offseason to a small contract may be the plan ... but they would have traveled a weird route to get to that point. Mahinmi remains a mystery.

Although, hopefully now a uniformed mystery :smokin

Given how poorly the front line has performed, and given how many points they gave up to Indiana in the first quarter after six days rest, I'm unsure how he could play badly enough to actually hurt the team.

[rascal]

Ratliff was worthless. I don't know why they even bothered getting this washed up guy last summer.

[timtonymanu]

LMAO at some of you bitchy fans.

Complaining that the FO sucks when you were kissing their asses last summer. Some bipolar kids in here. Yeah it sucks Ratliff is gone. He was pretty decent in his time here, but he's like 60 years old. He wasnt gonna be our difference maker in the playoffs. And why are some of you bitching? "the best center on the team", Ian Mahinmi can get playing time now. Realistically we couldnt pull off a Cavs/Mavs like trade because we did that with RJ already. It would have been hard to trade RJ/Dice because they still have another guaranteed year.

All Im worried about now is how far this team will go. But give the FO a break. They obviously tried to make a deal but it just didnt work out. Thank God Manu is still here for now. I had a feeling he was about to get traded at the deadline. Same with Blair and Hill.

[8FOR!3]

As good as we are at drafting, I'd soon as have the future second rounder than Theo Ratliff. It's not like he plays much these days anyways and he's old. Played well when he did though.

[angelbelow]

well, the good news is that theo never played and we just reduced our payroll.

[Spursmania]

Good news is the wait is over.

Meanwhile, Pop has been drinking Cabernet Sauvignon and laughing his ass off at all of us thinking they were going to pull some trade off. Thomas, Jamison, Salmons, lol...

[Dingle Barry]

Did you really expect a big move? The spurs are not known for big trades and chances were higher they would not make any big move.

The Spurs are also in a position they've never really been in, considering the payroll and the sand emptying down through Tim's proverbial hourglass.

[rascal]

The spurs need to get someone in the front office that knows how to improve the team with trades. Pop needs to be relieved of all front office duties and RC needs to be replaced.

These guys have hung onto lottery success too long. Now its time to step up and improve the team through free agency and trades and doing nothing before the trade deadline to address the frontline weakness has thrown another year of Duncan away.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurafans work themselves into a comically unrealistic lather every February.

Now comes the post-trade-talk-high withdrawal stage.

[ginobili fan]

Good news is the wait is over.

Meanwhile, Pop has been drinking Cabernet Sauvignon and laughing his ass off at all of us thinking they were going to pull some trade off. Thomas, Jamison, Salmons, lol...

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/Danzig52/alcoholic-766131.jpg

[ducks]

well the spurs now have an extra pick
if the pick is not protected
here is hoping the bobcats do not make the playoffs

[boutons_deux]

"Spurs are nowhere near a serious contender" ... for the playoffs.

Some good news is that Spurs are only 1 of 4 WC teams in top 8 with winning road record :lol

[timvp]

I'm anxious to see what RC/Pop have to say about the trade. It'd be nice if they say something about Mahinmi or Hairston.

My guess is they'll just thank Ratliff and just talk about his high character and professionalism. Either that or there will be no quote.

[FvckMavs]

well the spurs now have an extra pick
if the pick is not protected
here is hoping the bobcats do not make the playoffs

are you dumb? the pick will be at least top 58 protected.

[Muser]

well the spurs now have an extra pick
if the pick is not protected
here is hoping the bobcats do not make the playoffs

Second round, doubt it's going to be anything special.

[ducks]

blair was not special?

[ace3g]

Good news is the wait is over.

Meanwhile, Pop has been drinking Cabernet Sauvignon and laughing his ass off at all of us thinking they were going to pull some trade off. Thomas, Jamison, Salmons, lol...

the thing is, a TT/Salmons, Salmons, or TT trade were possible, and we had expiring contracts the Bulls wanted in return for them just it didn't work out

[I. Hustle]

It fucking BLOWS. Seriously, I could pick any little two year old boy in the world and line-up the entire Spurs roster and tell him to pick the 5 best guys or 5 to start and end a game and I guarantee you none of them would say "Oh I pick the funny-looking red-head guy!" No way no how...

My step son would because he is a red head too.

[mexpurs21]

blair was not special?

Or Manu

[SCdac]

We lucked out with Blair, I wouldn't say he's a normal second round pick... He doesn't have those injuries and he maybe gets drafted top-15 for all we know... Think about how bad our season would be if Blair didn't fall into our lap (and that is what happened).

[Buddy Holly]

I haven't read many of the pages in this thread but do you think the Spurs traded Ratliff because they're going to go after Big Z if he's bought out?

[objective]

I haven't read many of the pages in this thread but do you think the Spurs traded Ratliff because they're going to go after Big Z if he's bought out?

no

[Spursmania]

I haven't read many of the pages in this thread but do you think the Spurs traded Ratliff because they're going to go after Big Z if he's bought out?

Yeah, we're going to get Big Z alright...:lol

[bigdog]

I doubt the Spurs would even think about Big Z. He's too tall. The Spurs will likely suit up Ian for the rest of the season, or they could be waiting for someone else to be waived to fill that spot.

[TD 21]

What must Duncan be thinking right now? It's not that Ratliff is that significant a piece, but it's what this trade is symbolic of: the Spurs would rather save pennies on their luxury tax payment than have a center who was supposedly brought in to go against the Lakers in the playoffs. That says it all right there.

If they've given up on the season, why shouldn't the fans? Why should the fans bother spending money to come to games? For what? This isn't some rebuilding team with a bunch of exciting young talent, that's going to grow together and improve. They're sure as hell not a title contender, so what are they? Some middling, past their prime team with no direction. They look ridiculous out there. No size, no athleticism, no identity; just a mess.

I know how, but I still can't help but think: how did this go from looking so promising less than six months ago to looking so bleak now? Unbelievable.

[EricB]

Thats fine TD, don't go to games.

Pout and cry at home..

[rascal]

I haven't read many of the pages in this thread but do you think the Spurs traded Ratliff because they're going to go after Big Z if he's bought out?

Big Z won't save the season.

[Spursmania]

The Kings have waived Kenny Thomas, a league source tells Y! Sports. 17 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/9305881356) from web


http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

[EricB]

Yeah they tried trading him and no one bit.

[TD 21]

Thats fine TD, don't go to games.

Pout and cry at home..

You're a joke. You contribute absolutely nothing to this board, you just quote people and bitch all day. A yes man, who goes along with everything the franchise does. That's not what a real fan does.

You're pleased with what's gone on with this team the past two years? They're a shell of their former selves and it didn't have to be this way. Yes, the big three are aging, I get it, but they're still a championship caliber core. The problem is the front office has failed them and now they're essentially giving up on the season.

[024]

13 pages of discussion for a salary dump. nice.

[slick'81]

13 pages of discussion for a salary dump. nice.


indeed thats what fans do lol

[Rev Hill]

It's pretty clear folks...the FO felt that even with a trade, this team just wouldn't have it (enough to go deep in the playoffs), and honestly, I can't disagree. So they chose to do nothing and still be a team that doesn't go deep in the playoffs.

All we can hope for as fans now is the lottery (yes, I would rather go for the lottery than enter the playoffs as a #? seed in the West). It's too bad for Tim as another year of his career is crossed off. I think the FO felt they did enough this past offseason, but any knowledgeable fan could see pretty quickly that they just didn't have the right mix of players, skills and size to compete.

Maybe we can find another cameleon or lucky ping pong ball in June.

[Trimble87]

What must Duncan be thinking right now? It's not that Ratliff is that significant a piece, but it's what this trade is symbolic of: the Spurs would rather save pennies on their luxury tax payment than have a center who was supposedly brought in to go against the Lakers in the playoffs. That says it all right there.

If they've given up on the season, why shouldn't the fans? Why should the fans bother spending money to come to games? For what? This isn't some rebuilding team with a bunch of exciting young talent, that's going to grow together and improve. They're sure as hell not a title contender, so what are they? Some middling, past their prime team with no direction. They look ridiculous out there. No size, no athleticism, no identity; just a mess.

I know how, but I still can't help but think: how did this go from looking so promising less than six months ago to looking so bleak now? Unbelievable.


What Ratliff was brought in to do and what he actually accomplished are two different things. How you people can bitch this much about a guy who played, what? 6 minutes all season? come the fuck on.

Tim Duncan is not an idiot, he said at the beggining of all star week that he did not expect a trade to go through. The fact of the matter is no trade we could have made would have made us that significantly better. We have the talent on the team to win now, we just have to play better.

If you don't want to go to games, then dont. I personally enjoy watching the spurs play basketball. Losses suck, wins are great and the game is always entertaining. IMHO you need a reality check, if your team isn't named the Cavaliers or the Lakers right now then you dont have more then a 5% chance of winning the title. Welcome to the life of 90% of NBA fans. The spurs have been so great to us for so long that as soon as they slip a little you all go slitting your wrists and crying tears of black mascara.

Im gratefull for the championship years, I believe we have the talent to come backthis season and I believe in the FO going forward.... And even if it all falls apart I'll still be here supporting the team.

[rascal]

What Ratliff was brought in to do and what he actually accomplished are two different things. How you people can bitch this much about a guy who played, what? 6 minutes all season? come the fuck on.

Tim Duncan is not an idiot, he said at the beggining of all star week that he did not expect a trade to go through. The fact of the matter is no trade we could have made would have made us that significantly better. We have the talent on the team to win now, we just have to play better.

If you don't want to go to games, then dont. I personally enjoy watching the spurs play basketball. Losses suck, wins are great and the game is always entertaining. IMHO you need a reality check, if your team isn't named the Cavaliers or the Lakers right now then you dont have more then a 5% chance of winning the title. Welcome to the life of 90% of NBA fans. The spurs have been so great to us for so long that as soon as they slip a little you all go slitting your wrists and crying tears of black mascara.

Im gratefull for the championship years, I believe we have the talent to come backthis season and I believe in the FO going forward.... And even if it all falls apart I'll still be here supporting the team.

Put the pom poms down and see reality.

[Trimble87]

I realistically think we have a 1% chance of winning the title. But thats different then never giving up hope we could turn it around.

I have accepted that we most likely wont win. but im not going to blame everyone in the FO and whine like a bitch about it. come on.

[HarlemHeat37]

That doesn't make any sense though..

There are a few different goals an NBA team can have..

-Compete for a title and try to make your team as good as possible..
-Compete in the playoffs while developing young talent..
-Rebuild..

The Spurs aren't going to fall into any of these categories..

They aren't going to compete for a title and they didn't even try to make a trade to help the team for this year..

They didn't make a trade to try to get some assets for our expiring contracts, even though it turned out that it could have been possible based on what other teams gave up for some decent players..

They aren't developing ANY young talent right now because they like to play veterans instead..

They aren't rebuilding..

The Spurs are in a very sorry state right now, similar to the Celtics as well..I was reading a Celtics board today, and they were saying the same shit we're saying..even if you're a die-hard fan and watch every game, it still becomes boring when you have to watch an old-ass team that isn't going to compete for a title..the current Spurs team isn't going to compete for a title, apparently didn't try hard enough to add some talent, and they aren't developing young talent, so there isn't even any potential player development that we can look forward to..they play with no energy, there's no size, the franchise player has to battle in the paint all by himself, the coach has gone crazy with his stupid rotations and we have to watch players that probably wouldn't be in the rotation for most other good teams..

So the game isn't always entertaining, and the Spurs certainly aren't in the same category as "90% of the NBA teams"..

Yes, the Spurs have been great, and we obviously appreciate that, but why should that make them immune to criticism?..

[TD 21]

What Ratliff was brought in to do and what he actually accomplished are two different things. How you people can bitch this much about a guy who played, what? 6 minutes all season? come the fuck on.

Tim Duncan is not an idiot, he said at the beggining of all star week that he did not expect a trade to go through. The fact of the matter is no trade we could have made would have made us that significantly better. We have the talent on the team to win now, we just have to play better.

If you don't want to go to games, then dont. I personally enjoy watching the spurs play basketball. Losses suck, wins are great and the game is always entertaining. IMHO you need a reality check, if your team isn't named the Cavaliers or the Lakers right now then you dont have more then a 5% chance of winning the title. Welcome to the life of 90% of NBA fans. The spurs have been so great to us for so long that as soon as they slip a little you all go slitting your wrists and crying tears of black mascara.

Im gratefull for the championship years, I believe we have the talent to come backthis season and I believe in the FO going forward.... And even if it all falls apart I'll still be here supporting the team.

The thinking was Ratliff was brought in to play against the Lakers and the other bigger teams in the playoff (which meant every other contender, since the Spurs were the smallest of the bunch). Right about now, people assumed he'd start playing more, be worked into shape, familiarize himself with the system, gain chemistry with the second unit, etc.

How the fuck can someone accomplish what they were "supposed to do" when they weren't given an opportunity to do it? Almost every time he played, he was effective, relative to what he's capable of/expected of.

Duncan is not an idiot? I'm starting to wonder. I know it's not his personality, but he should have taken this situation into his hands a while ago, you know, like every other player either of or even close to his stature in the league has done/would have done, given the situation. Instead, he continues to put on a brave face, carry far too big of a load and watch the clock tick on his remaining effectiveness, all the while nothing is done to help him out, even though the team had the assets and should have had the motivation to do something.

If you enjoy watching this team play basketball, then you flat out don't know nothing about the game. There is nothing to enjoy. This is a miserable team to watch if I ever saw one. I don't need to see a cadre of highlight reel plays nightly, I can enjoy well executed plays and timely defensive rotations; I've seen very little of either this season. Slip a little? It's official: you don't know nothing about the game.

Good for you. Continue to be a blind idiot, with no idea about what's going on. This organization let an opportunity pass today that they shouldn't have and because of it they're one step closer to effectively ending Duncan's window because of their increasing incompetence.

[Trimble87]

why does a trade not happening = pop/RC didnt try or didnt want one or didnt care?


thats not the case. Every single thing ive read says the spurs were incredibly active all week. making phone calls, talking to other FO's, floating players names that were available. No one bit. If you want to criticize the FO then at least wait til they do something worthy of criticism. No other teams wanting our bad contracts or expiring players is not a failure of our FO.

[kobyz]

i didn't understand why Charlotte do this???

[Obstructed_View]

Nobody in the organization actually said that Ratliff was going to be saved for the Lakers, but as time wore on it seemed like the only logical explanation for signing such an old, injury prone shot blocker and not giving him any burn at all the first half of the season. At this point, I really don't understand what the fuck they thought they were doing with him other than playing with Holt's monopoly money. If I'd paid for the guy to sit on the bench costing me luxury tax money only to be dropped, I'd be calling a fucking meeting this afternoon to find out why.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, Spurs fans will have lots of reasons to watch him and Tyrus Thomas together for the rest of the season.

[Trimble87]

The thinking was Ratliff was brought in to play against the Lakers and the other bigger teams in the playoff (which meant every other contender, since the Spurs were the smallest of the bunch). Right about now, people assumed he'd start playing more, be worked into shape, familiarize himself with the system, gain chemistry with the second unit, etc.

How the fuck can someone accomplish what they were "supposed to do" when they weren't given an opportunity to do it? Almost every time he played, he was effective, relative to what he's capable of/expected of.

Duncan is not an idiot? I'm starting to wonder. I know it's not his personality, but he should have taken this situation into his hands a while ago, you know, like every other player either of or even close to his stature in the league has done/would have done, given the situation. Instead, he continues to put on a brave face, take on far too bad a load and watch the clock tick on his remaining effectiveness, all the while nothing is done to help him out, even though the team had the assets and should have had the motivation to do something.

If you enjoy watching this team play basketball, then you flat out don't know nothing about the game. There is nothing to enjoy. This is a miserable team to watch if I ever saw one. I don't need to see a cadre of highlight reel plays nightly, I enjoy well executed plays and defensive rotations; I've seen very little of either this season. Slip a little? It's official: you don't know nothing about the game.

Good for you. Continue to be a blind idiot, with no idea about what's going on. This organization let an opportunity pass today that they shouldn't have and because of it they're one step closer to effectively ending Duncan's window because of their increasing incompetence.

Enjoying watching the games, and not noticing the bad play again are two different things. I spend most games screaming at my TV. I hate Jefferson to the point that if I saw him crossing the street id think twice about stopping before I ran him over.

The difference is, I'm not blaming the FO for the players bad play. If you think Pop is responsible for the chemistry then thats fine. but from where I'm sitting the Spurs FO went out anf got a guy we all liked and it did not work. They were willing to spend a LOT of money to acquire RJ and Dice who should have made us much much better.

Its been painful watching the spurs lack of defense this season. But the fact is we still have a better record then most teams in the league. We are 1 1/2 games back from the divison lead. And with the players we have, there is nowhere to go but UP.

I choose to continue looking at things positively. Whereas you continue to grumble about how Pop is a moron and the spurs suck and have let us all down. woe is me.

[lennyalderette]

fire pop now

[rascal]

why does a trade not happening = pop/RC didnt try or didnt want one or didnt care?


thats not the case. Every single thing ive read says the spurs were incredibly active all week. making phone calls, talking to other FO's, floating players names that were available. No one bit. If you want to criticize the FO then at least wait til they do something worthy of criticism. No other teams wanting our bad contracts or expiring players is not a failure of our FO.

I don't care if they tried. I want to see results- a trade. Its their job to get the job done and it did not happen.

This front office never seems to be able to get it done with regards to trades except getting Jefferson last summer who has been a poor fit with Pops style of coaching.

[TD 21]

Enjoying watching the games, and not noticing the bad play again are two different things. I spend most games screaming at my TV. I hate Jefferson to the point that if I saw him crossing the street id think twice about stopping before I ran him over.

The difference is, I'm not blaming the FO for the players bad play. If you think Pop is responsible for the chemistry then thats fine. but from where I'm sitting the Spurs FO went out anf got a guy we all liked and it did not work. They were willing to spend a LOT of money to acquire RJ and Dice who should have made us much much better.

Its been painful watching the spurs lack of defense this season. But the fact is we still have a better record then most teams in the league. We are 1 1/2 games back from the divison lead. And with the players we have, there is nowhere to go but UP.

I choose to continue looking at things positively. Whereas you continue to grumble about how Pop is a moron and the spurs suck and have let us all down. woe is me.

The coaching has been deplorable. They knew Jefferson wasn't a strong spot-up shooter, yet that's his primary function in the offense. The Spurs have stopped posting Jefferson, rarely ever feature him in wing isos, rarely ever utilize him as a finisher in transition and are basically not allowing for him to do what he excels at. He's a terrible rebounder, at best an average defender and a mediocre spot up shooter, yet this is what they want him to do.

Who cares about record? Anyone who knows anything about the game and the league knows this is not a championship caliber team and no division championship is going to prove other (just look at last season).

For sure, based on individual talent, the Spurs have enough. But this isn't a video game. The pieces don't fit, they're too deficient in too many areas and they can no longer rely on out-smarting/executing/defending teams to win, so how exactly do they plan to do so? Their talent is ample, but not enough to overwhelm any good opponent, much less an elite one. Worst of all, their coach went from the best in the league to insane in a two year span.

[Pentagruel]

I don't care if they tried. I want to see results- a trade. Its their job to get the job done and it did not happen.

This front office never seems to be able to get it done with regards to trades except getting Jefferson last summer who has been a poor fit with Pops style of coaching.


It is not their job to make a trade happen. It is their job to put the team in the best position to win a championship whether that is now or in the future. If a quality trade was to be had then i'm certain they would have done it. By all accounts they were active on the market. No other team however was willing to give up young talent for our expiring contracts without including either a long term contract with it or demanding a first round draft pick from us. Doing either of these things would hinder our future without really helping the present.

[Rito3d30]

not even a damn draft pick? :king

[Obstructed_View]

Second round pick was what I read.

[AFBlue]

:lol

Houston gets Martin, Dallas gets Butler/Haywood, and Spurs get second round pick. Awesome trade deadline!

[Pentagruel]

:lol

Houston gets Martin, Dallas gets Butler/Haywood, and Spurs get second round pick. Awesome trade deadline!

More importantly Houston robbed NY of two first round draft picks haha...

[benefactor]

That doesn't make any sense though..

There are a few different goals an NBA team can have..

-Compete for a title and try to make your team as good as possible..
-Compete in the playoffs while developing young talent..
-Rebuild..

The Spurs aren't going to fall into any of these categories..

They aren't going to compete for a title and they didn't even try to make a trade to help the team for this year..

They didn't make a trade to try to get some assets for our expiring contracts, even though it turned out that it could have been possible based on what other teams gave up for some decent players..

They aren't developing ANY young talent right now because they like to play veterans instead..

They aren't rebuilding..

The Spurs are in a very sorry state right now, similar to the Celtics as well..I was reading a Celtics board today, and they were saying the same shit we're saying..even if you're a die-hard fan and watch every game, it still becomes boring when you have to watch an old-ass team that isn't going to compete for a title..the current Spurs team isn't going to compete for a title, apparently didn't try hard enough to add some talent, and they aren't developing young talent, so there isn't even any potential player development that we can look forward to..they play with no energy, there's no size, the franchise player has to battle in the paint all by himself, the coach has gone crazy with his stupid rotations and we have to watch players that probably wouldn't be in the rotation for most other good teams..

So the game isn't always entertaining, and the Spurs certainly aren't in the same category as "90% of the NBA teams"..

Yes, the Spurs have been great, and we obviously appreciate that, but why should that make them immune to criticism?..
I've been thinking about how I feel about this team and you just did a perfect job of putting into words. Excellent post.

It's funny...all the Spurs brass could talk about this past summer was working hard to try to win one more ring for Duncan before he retires. Now they have a team that has zero potential to do that and they did very little to try to improve the situation.

They need to make up their minds. Either stay committed and continue to go all in or scrap it and start over. Sitting in the middle is pointless

[rascal]

It is not their job to make a trade happen. It is their job to put the team in the best position to win a championship whether that is now or in the future. If a quality trade was to be had then i'm certain they would have done it. By all accounts they were active on the market. No other team however was willing to give up young talent for our expiring contracts without including either a long term contract with it or demanding a first round draft pick from us. Doing either of these things would hinder our future without really helping the present.

Its their job to make trades. Trades are a great way of improving the team and the spurs fo have a lousy history with regards of upgrading the team with trades.

[ducks]

most teams do

you can not fault them with the rj trade though

[Obstructed_View]

Its their job to make trades. Trades are a great way of improving the team and the spurs fo have a lousy history with regards of upgrading the team with trades.

Wow. How quickly we forget.

[Boss]

Sorry not very good with computers (don't know how to post a link) but insidehoops.com is saying Spurs traded Theo for a second round pick in 2016.

Can this day get any worse.....

[cd98]

Relax. No one wanted what we had to offer. Heck the Grizzlies wouldn't even take Mason for a second round draft pick. Generally speaking you have to give up quality to get quality. We didn't have enough expiring contracts to offer real relief and we didn't want to give up Blair or Hill or a 1st rounder or some combination of Duncan, Parker, or Ginoboli in any trade scenario that was available.

Some decent players will get bought out, maybe we sign one of them. We now have the roster spots.

This team as constituted will either put it together and make the playoffs or miss the playoffs and go to the lottery. If we do go to the lottery, we get a chance to get some young talent, add Tiago, free some cap space. Resign Ginoboli for a reasonable price, selectively contract with a free agent, and we'll be a better team.

Heck, next year Jefferson's contract will have real value. We may be able to use it to get a significant player like the Rockets got with McGrady.

Be fair to Holt. He forked over a lot of cash to give the Spurs the potential to be great this year. Kind of hard to dump on the Spurs when he is way more invested than anyone else here and he is sticking with them.

[jjktkk]

It is not their job to make a trade happen. It is their job to put the team in the best position to win a championship whether that is now or in the future. If a quality trade was to be had then i'm certain they would have done it. By all accounts they were active on the market. No other team however was willing to give up young talent for our expiring contracts without including either a long term contract with it or demanding a first round draft pick from us. Doing either of these things would hinder our future without really helping the present.

:wowOMG WATCHOUT!!! A lot of ST folks hate when some one speaks with the voice of reason.

[Pentagruel]

Its their job to make trades. Trades are a great way of improving the team and the spurs fo have a lousy history with regards of upgrading the team with trades.


Trades frequently do not improve the team, only make it worse for the future. Its the FO's job to improve the team. Clearly it decided that the available trade scenario's did not improve the team enough for this year, or for the future. If you disagree with the FO and think that they should have taken on long term contracts or traded away draft picks then that is fine, albeit foolish.

[The Truth #6]

The Spurs seem to have their heads in the sand. Very curious behavior. Completely disappointing.

Trading Theo gives a glimmer of hope for change but with Pop's latest lineup, it's clear that "a dramatic shakeup" is reshuffling the same bad deck. Frustrating. It's like we're slowly circling the drain.

[ElNono]

Relax. No one wanted what we had to offer. Heck the Grizzlies wouldn't even take Mason for a second round draft pick. Generally speaking you have to give up quality to get quality. We didn't have enough expiring contracts to offer real relief and we didn't want to give up Blair or Hill or a 1st rounder or some combination of Duncan, Parker, or Ginoboli in any trade scenario that was available.

We had $13 million in expiring contracts before the Ratliff trade and without including the $10 million expiring from Manu. That's more than plenty.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs missed out on a valuable opportunity to enhance and speed up the rebuilding process by not getting any future assets for their expirings.

This team has Celtics of the early 90's written all over it.

[AFBlue]

We had $13 million in expiring contracts before the Ratliff trade and without including the $10 million expiring from Manu. That's more than plenty.

Spurs had no sweetners outside of the expiring deals.

It's like with the Thomas trade...Bobcats had more attractive young pieces AND a first round pick.

He seems to be the only one the Spurs considered that would improve their chances.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs had no sweetners outside of the expiring deals.

It's like with the Thomas trade...Bobcats had more attractive young pieces AND a first round pick.

He seems to be the only one the Spurs considered that would improve their chances.

Bulls could care less about Law and Murray. They could have included me and you in the deal and they would have agreed as long as that 1st rounder was included.

[cd98]

We had $13 million in expiring contracts before the Ratliff trade and without including the $10 million expiring from Manu. That's more than plenty.

OK, then who gave up a quality player for only 13 million in expiring contracts? Are you telling me that you think the Spurs hung up the phone when teams were calling them begging for their capspace?

[AFBlue]

Spurs missed out on a valuable opportunity to enhance and speed up the rebuilding process by not getting any future assets for their expirings.

This team has Celtics of the early 90's written all over it.

Spurs aren't rebuilding. They may not be a top 3 team, but they're far from the bottom and there's still 1/3 of the season to be played.

I don't think the Spurs "missed out" as much as they got outbid, because they weren't willing to give up on their current young talent (Blair, Hill) or potential future young talent (picks).

[SpurNation]

I wonder how much money the league is paying the Spurs to NOT be contenders for the title?

OK...now that I've got that premiscuity off my chest....

....at least the team is now 2 mill less committed than they were 24 hours ago.

WOO HOOO. Exactly what the fan base was hoping for.

[SenorSpur]

That doesn't make any sense though..

There are a few different goals an NBA team can have..

-Compete for a title and try to make your team as good as possible..
-Compete in the playoffs while developing young talent..
-Rebuild..

The Spurs aren't going to fall into any of these categories..

They aren't going to compete for a title and they didn't even try to make a trade to help the team for this year..

They didn't make a trade to try to get some assets for our expiring contracts, even though it turned out that it could have been possible based on what other teams gave up for some decent players..

They aren't developing ANY young talent right now because they like to play veterans instead..

They aren't rebuilding..

The Spurs are in a very sorry state right now, similar to the Celtics as well..I was reading a Celtics board today, and they were saying the same shit we're saying..even if you're a die-hard fan and watch every game, it still becomes boring when you have to watch an old-ass team that isn't going to compete for a title..the current Spurs team isn't going to compete for a title, apparently didn't try hard enough to add some talent, and they aren't developing young talent, so there isn't even any potential player development that we can look forward to..they play with no energy, there's no size, the franchise player has to battle in the paint all by himself, the coach has gone crazy with his stupid rotations and we have to watch players that probably wouldn't be in the rotation for most other good teams..

So the game isn't always entertaining, and the Spurs certainly aren't in the same category as "90% of the NBA teams"..

Yes, the Spurs have been great, and we obviously appreciate that, but why should that make them immune to criticism?..

Sounds an awful lot like the Spurs are entering that dreaded zone where you don't want your team to be: a roster comprised of older, expensive and mediocre or underachieiving talent. This is not a place you want to be.

When investing in younger talent, at least you have a team of energy, potential, upside and cheap contracts.

Goodbye championship contention. Hello "treadmill of mediocrity"

[AFBlue]

Bulls could care less about Law and Murray. They could have included me and you in the deal and they would have agreed as long as that 1st rounder was included.

And if I gave you the choice between a first round pick from SA (if that was even offered) and a first round pick from Charlotte, what would you pick?

I'm gonna say all NBA GMs would go with Charlotte...and Chicago's did.

[Bruno]

The pick Spurs got is a top 55 protected 2016 second round pick.
It also seems that Spurs haven't send cash.

[exstatic]

Bulls could care less about Law and Murray. They could have included me and you in the deal and they would have agreed as long as that 1st rounder was included.

What part of "Charlotte's first round pick is at LEAST 5 spots ahead of ours" do you not understand?

[SpurCharger]

A 2nd round Pick in 2016..... Tony parker might be retired by then.......

[Cant_Be_Faded]

How about you posting something original other than pop sucks grumble grumble grumble?

how bout you post something else besides "FO is great, what a great job" and put down the pompoms for a hot second.

[TimmehC]

The pick Spurs got is a top 55 protected 2016 second round pick.
It also seems that Spurs haven't send cash.

That's some Rasual Butler shit right there.

[poop]

i wait all dayto get home and check what happened...and we just dumped Theo? for nothing? one of our precious few defensive bigs?

i dont fucking understand this organization anymore. they draft mahinmi and keep him around for years, only to NEVER pla/develop him eevn when he could be what the team has needed most that last couple years.

then we sign Ratliff to help provide what this team desperately needs...and proceed to NEVER play him, then just dump him. and get nothing i return.

man fuck this stupid shit.

[bigdog]

LOL. wow.

[AFBlue]

By the way, I'm totally fine with a Ratliff salary dump. Not that Mahinmi is going to play major minutes, but at least Pop has no other garbage time options now.

[gospursgojas]

The Spurs gave up on the 2010 plan for the 2016 plan...cool

[ElNono]

OK, then who gave up a quality player for only 13 million in expiring contracts? Are you telling me that you think the Spurs hung up the phone when teams were calling them begging for their capspace?

No, I'm telling you that we had nearly $13 million in expiring contracts and that should have been enough to make a trade with teams looking for relief, IF the Spurs actually wanted to take on more salary after this season.

That's the thing though, I don't think the Spurs believe they'll be contending this season, so there's no reason to add up more salary. Dumping Ratliff points to that too. I'm sure they rather have those $13 million in flexibility for the summer, and see what kind of team they can put together for next season.

Furthermore, you proceed to claim that:


Heck, next year Jefferson's contract will have real value.

How so? If $13 million is not enough to make a move, how is $15 million any different?

[ClingingMars]

fail. way to give on this season RC.

[I. Hustle]

The FO didn't give up. The trading of Theo was just to open up a spot for the one... The only...













LLLLLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKKKEEEEE BONNER!!!!!!








:lol

[gospursgojas]

A 2nd round Pick in 2016..... Tony parker might be retired by then.......

But I hear there are some great 8th graders planning on going pro that year

[ohmwrecker]

$13 mil. in expirings plus Theo's $1 mil. = 14 mil. Can we buy out RJ next year?

[Budkin]

Seriously, does it even matter... Ratliff's ass was stuck to the pine. He wasn't going to be playing anyway.

[Big Empty]

well, maybe we can trade Jefferson in the summer and re-sign Gino for cheap. If Parker plays in the summer he wont be 100% and he isnt gonna resign with us with a 36 year old Duncan and Old Ginobili. So we might as well see if we get anything in value for him and start the rebuilding process. This is our last shot this season IMO. I think I've found myself saying Duncan has 2 or 3 solid years left for the last 5 years. He is playing well still. There are so many negative possibilites after this year we are gonna have to make some tough decisions. If we lose Gino and Parker isn't 100% I can see Duncan wanting to be traded to a contender for one last run. He isnt going to want to sit around if we start rebuilding and I don't blame him. Hopefully we can get rid of Jefferson and save some cap, Parker doesnt play in the summer, and we sign Gino and another big peice for another last run next year and hold off the inevitable rebuilding process for another year. I will still root for my favorite team elite or not! GO SPURS!

[SenorSpur]

Spurs missed out on a valuable opportunity to enhance and speed up the rebuilding process by not getting any future assets for their expirings.
This team has Celtics of the early 90's written all over it.

That was the point right there.

I've had to counter many on this board who contend that "Tyrus Thomas isn't going to help the Spurs win a championship this year". Winning a title this year wasn't the point. That prospect went out the window the minute it became obvious that the offseason aquisitions (Dice & RJ) were big mistakes.

With that in mind, the FO should have aggressively upgraded the existing talent level by "flipping " those expiring contracts into young, developing assets that would accelerate the rebuilding process and prevent a total collapse. They should have been as aggressive about this as they were about adding free agents over the summer. Instead they did nothing, but dump the salary of a vet, who wasn't playing anyway.

And for those who say, "relax, don't be mad at Holt", I've got news for you. No one is mad at Holt. In fact, he should commended for originally agreeing to the "one for the thumb", 2-year, championship strategy for Duncan's golden years. From there, it was up to Pop and RC to make the correct personnel decisions. Unfortunately, they guessed wrong.

The fact of the matter is, I'm not even pissed at them for guessing wrong on RJ and Dice. I'm pissed at them because their lazy asses got gun-shy today and did nothing. I don't give a shit about what talks they may or may not have had. At the end of the day, the real question is 'did you get a deal done to upgrade the roster?' That's all that matters. Unfortunately for us fans and for the Big Three, that answer is NO.

[AFBlue]

i wait all dayto get home and check what happened...and we just dumped Theo? for nothing? one of our precious few defensive bigs?

i dont fucking understand this organization anymore. they draft mahinmi and keep him around for years, only to NEVER pla/develop him eevn when he could be what the team has needed most that last couple years.

then we sign Ratliff to help provide what this team desperately needs...and proceed to NEVER play him, then just dump him. and get nothing i return.

man fuck this stupid shit.


Seriously, does it even matter... Ratliff's ass was stuck to the pine. He wasn't going to be playing anyway.

[poop]

they couldnt help it that RJ turned out to be a bust, but they are CERTAINLY responsible for dumping/benching big after big so that 'black hole' bonner and finley can retain roster spots. there have been ways to help bolster our defense, especially interior to help duncan, but they had ZERO interest in doing that.

[Big Empty]

That was the point right there.

I've had to counter many on this board who contend that "Tyrus Thomas isn't going to help the Spurs win a championship this year". Winning a title this year wasn't the point. That prospect went out the window the minute it became obvious that the offseason aquisitions (Dice & RJ) were big mistakes.

With that in mind, the FO should have aggressively upgraded the existing talent level by "flipping " those expiring contracts into young, developing assets that would accelerate the rebuilding process and prevent a total collapse. They should have been as aggressive about this as they were about adding free agents over the summer. Instead they did nothing, but dump the salary of a vet, who wasn't playing anyway.

And for those who say, "relax, don't be mad at Holt", I've got news for you. No one is mad at Holt. In fact, he should commended for originally agreeing to the "one for the thumb", 2-year, championship strategy for Duncan's golden years. From there, it was up to Pop and RC to make the correct personnel decisions. Unfortunately, they guessed wrong.

The fact of the matter is, I'm not even pissed at them for guessing wrong on RJ and Dice. I'm pissed at them because their lazy asses got gun-shy today and did nothing. I don't give a shit about what talks they may or may not have had. At the end of the day, the real question is 'did you get a deal done to upgrade the roster?' That's all that matters. Unfortunately for us fans and for the Big Three, that answer is NO.
well, we got two good young peices in Blair and HIll, If we do have a collapse we will get lottery draft picks for a year or two and well be right back in the mix in a few years after that. Especially when Duncan and Parker's contracts come off the books. So who knows?

[pad300]

OK, then who gave up a quality player for only 13 million in expiring contracts? Are you telling me that you think the Spurs hung up the phone when teams were calling them begging for their capspace?

Chicago Bulls traded away John Salmons and 2 2nd rd picks (2011 & 2012) + a the right to swap 1st round picks in 2010 to milwaukee for 2 expiring contracts - Hakeem Warrick and Joe Alexander.

Salmons is better than any of our wings after Ginobili, Hill, and maybe Jefferson... Moving say Mason and Finley for him, and only taking 1 second rounder back would have been a good deal. Mason and Finley's bird rights are useless to us, as we don't want them back. The downside would likely have been more salary next year. If need be, add Mahinmi, who Pop apparently won't play...

[SenorSpur]

well, we got two good young peices in Blair and HIll, If we do have a collapse we will get lottery draft picks for a year or two and well be right back in the mix in a few years after that. Especially when Duncan and Parker's contracts come off the books. So who knows?

There's no question that we have two good, young pieces in both Blair and Hill. And we're glad to have them. However, they cannot help turn it around alone. The Spurs could've had a young, energetic, athletic, PF today, if they would've sealed the deal.

[tp2021]

Not playing him with the hopes of signing him in the offseason to a small contract may be the plan ... but they would have traveled a weird route to get to that point. Mahinmi remains a mystery.


I was actually wondering if this might mean they realized they made a mistake by not picking up his option, and hope to resign him in the offseason. They realized after the time they've spent developing him, coupled with seeing what they deem suitable progress on the court, that it would be a huge loss to let him walk. So now they have no choice but to keep his newly developed skills under wraps...its not like they could play him but tell him not to play too well.

Or perhaps I just need to pass what I'm smoking

[wildbill2u]

The pick Spurs got is a top 55 protected 2016 second round pick.
It also seems that Spurs haven't send cash.

On the Spur website it just mentions a protected 2nd round pick but I assume you know what you are saying about the other qualifiers (top 55 in 2016)

What is a protected top 55 2nd round pick? Does that mean if the Bobcats are in the lottery in 2016 we don't get their second round pick?

Who thinks these convoluted deals up? I have a picture of Pop saying something like, "we'll trade you Ratliff for a second round pick" and Larry Brown saying, "no we'll make it a protected top 55 second rounder or the deal's off."

[ss1986v2]

On the Spur website it just mentions a protected 2nd round pick but I assume you know what you are saying about the other qualifiers (top 55 in 2016)

What is a protected top 55 2nd round pick? Does that mean if the Bobcats are in the lottery in 2016 we don't get their second round pick?

Who thinks these convoluted deals up? I have a picture of Pop saying something like, "we'll trade you Ratliff for a second round pick" and Larry Brown saying, "no we'll make it a protected top 55 second rounder or the deal's off."

you cant trade a player for nothing. so you include a protected pick that will never actually be sent to the other team. twolves did the same when we dumped beno on them. same when denver dumped camby on the clippers.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How about you posting something original other than pop sucks grumble grumble grumble?

Howabout you do something besides lick Pop and RC's taint for turning $23 million in expiring salaries into a non-existent 2016 second round draft pick?

Newsflash: We are not and never will be a premier free agent destination. The only way this franchise can reload/rebuild is via luck in the draft and trades.

They just pissed away a golden trade deadline while teams like Houston turned contractual dogshit into Kevin Martin and two first round draft picks (and potential lotto picks at that).

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Howabout you do something besides lick Pop and RC's taint for turning $23 million in expiring salaries into a non-existent 2016 second round draft pick?

Newsflash: We are not and never will be a premier free agent destination. The only way this franchise can reload/rebuild is via luck in the draft and trades.

They just pissed away a golden trade deadline while teams like Houston turned contractual dogshit into Kevin Martin and two first round draft picks (and potential lotto picks at that).

You know things are bleak when I am in complete agreement with AHF and Obstructed_View :lol

[tp2021]

That doesn't make any sense though..

There are a few different goals an NBA team can have..

-Compete for a title and try to make your team as good as possible..
-Compete in the playoffs while developing young talent..
-Rebuild..

The Spurs aren't going to fall into any of these categories..

They aren't going to compete for a title and they didn't even try to make a trade to help the team for this year..

They didn't make a trade to try to get some assets for our expiring contracts, even though it turned out that it could have been possible based on what other teams gave up for some decent players..

They aren't developing ANY young talent right now because they like to play veterans instead..

They aren't rebuilding..

The Spurs are in a very sorry state right now, similar to the Celtics as well..I was reading a Celtics board today, and they were saying the same shit we're saying..even if you're a die-hard fan and watch every game, it still becomes boring when you have to watch an old-ass team that isn't going to compete for a title..the current Spurs team isn't going to compete for a title, apparently didn't try hard enough to add some talent, and they aren't developing young talent, so there isn't even any potential player development that we can look forward to..they play with no energy, there's no size, the franchise player has to battle in the paint all by himself, the coach has gone crazy with his stupid rotations and we have to watch players that probably wouldn't be in the rotation for most other good teams..

So the game isn't always entertaining, and the Spurs certainly aren't in the same category as "90% of the NBA teams"..

Yes, the Spurs have been great, and we obviously appreciate that, but why should that make them immune to criticism?..

Perhaps: They know they need to rebuild, and tried to make trades to accomplish that, but got outbid everywhere they called.

I guess the next thing to look for would be the starting lineup in tomorrow's game, and then who gets waived at the deadline (Spurs players included)

[ElNono]

Howabout you do something besides lick Pop and RC's taint for turning $23 million in expiring salaries into a non-existent 2016 second round draft pick?

Newsflash: We are not and never will be a premier free agent destination. The only way this franchise can reload/rebuild is via luck in the draft and trades.

They just pissed away a golden trade deadline while teams like Houston turned contractual dogshit into Kevin Martin and two first round draft picks (and potential lotto picks at that).

Amen

[tp2021]

This was supposed to be the season to have expirings: teams want money to expire for the Lebronstakes. And the Spurs got...what will probably become nothing. When was the last time they traded for a conditional pick and got something from it? They didn't even use Beno's TE when they had that.

[xtremesteven33]

What a fucking dissapointing season so far. If it wasnt for Dejuan Blair, the season would be a total bore and letdown.

The Spurs couldnt even pull off a minor trade. I think they really tried, but other teams just had better offers.

[SenorSpur]

I was actually wondering if this might mean they realized they made a mistake by not picking up his option, and hope to resign him in the offseason. They realized after the time they've spent developing him, coupled with seeing what they deem suitable progress on the court, that it would be a huge loss to let him walk. So now they have no choice but to keep his newly developed skills under wraps...its not like they could play him but tell him not to play too well.

Or perhaps I just need to pass what I'm smoking

It's a very intriguing question? What are their intentions for Ian?

Now granted, I make no secret of the fact that I'm intrigued by the guy's skills and will not be convinced that he can't play until I see it for myself. I do like the little that I've seen so far. That said, I'm very pleased that it was Ratliff traded and not Ian. I hope he has a future here. I just don't know what the FO's intentions are.

[jjktkk]

There's no question that we have two good, young pieces in both Blair and Hill. And we're glad to have them. However, they cannot help turn it around alone. The Spurs could've had a young, energetic, athletic, PF today, if they would've sealed the deal.

If the Spurs could of gotten Thomas for a combination expiring contracts, 2nd round pick, then thats great, but I wouldn't trade a 1st rounder for em, so I'm glad the Spurs didn't get Thomas. Yes, hes young, athletic,and a good defender, but stop and think about the reason why the Bulls would anxiously want to get rid of a top 5 pick with all that talent just after a few years. Unfair or not, Thomas has a reputation as a knucklehead and the only way I would of taken him would have been to get him on the cheap.

[Sean Cagney]

What a fucking dissapointing season so far. If it wasnt for Dejuan Blair, the season would be a total bore and letdown.

The Spurs couldnt even pull off a minor trade. I think they really tried, but other teams just had better offers.

Yep, Hill growing too has made it a little better! Sides that and Timmays normal play this year has been a complete nightmare from what fans thought it was be! WE thought this was a 60 win top two or three seed team and we were back :( Instead we get pummeled 4 times by Utah of all teams (We owned them too) and Portland beats us three times etc., we are getting PUMMELED by teams we used to beat just last year.

This year is horrible, if it does not get better I will have a bitter taste in my mouth all summer long.

[jjktkk]

What a fucking dissapointing season so far. If it wasnt for Dejuan Blair, the season would be a total bore and letdown.

The Spurs couldnt even pull off a minor trade. I think they really tried, but other teams just had better offers.

Couldn't agree with you more, but it sure would interesting to see what kind of personnel moves ST's armchair GMs would make to imrove the Spurs, since Pop and RC have no clue.

[SenorSpur]

If the Spurs could of gotten Thomas for a combination expiring contracts, 2nd round pick, then thats great, but I wouldn't trade a 1st rounder for em, so I'm glad the Spurs didn't get Thomas. Yes, hes young, athletic,and a good defender, but stop and think about the reason why the Bulls would anxiously want to get rid of a top 5 pick with all that talent just after a few years. Unfair or not, Thomas has a reputation as a knucklehead and the only way I would of taken him would have been to get him on the cheap.

Thomas certainly had issues with the coach and, according to stuff I read about him, had a few episodes of immature behavior. However, let's not be so quick to extrapolate those episodes over his entire, short career. Let's also not be so quick to label him as J.R. Smith or Nate Robinson. If you've read some of the accounts from Bulls fans on this site, they've claimed that that kid is coachable and would fare well in a stable and strong environment.

That said, the reason Thomas was made expendable was Taj Gibson. It wasn't until Thomas sustained an injury and Gibson took his spot, did we hear of those issues cropping up. This isn't to excuse Thomas at all. I just know the Spurs were intrigued by Thomas for well over a year. Given the average age of the Spurs roster and seeing as how other Western Conference teams made themselves better, the Spurs are in no position to thumb their noses at young, developing talent.

Of course, the FO would've been stupid to overpay for the kid. However, seeing as what Charlotte eventually offered, it's tough for me to believe the Spurs couldn't have matched those assets.

[jjktkk]

Thomas certainly had issues with the coach and, according to stuff I read about him, had a few episodes of immature behavior. However, let's not be so quick to extrapolate those episodes over his entire, short career. Let's also not be so quick to label him as J.R. Smith or Nate Robinson. If you've read some of the accounts from Bulls fans on this site, they've claimed that that kid is coachable and would fare well in a stable and strong environment.

That said, the reason Thomas was made expendable was Taj Gibson. It wasn't until Thomas sustained an injury and Gibson took his spot, did we hear of those issues cropping up. This isn't to excuse Thomas at all. I just know the Spurs were intrigued by Thomas for well over a year. Given the average age of the Spurs roster and seeing as how other Western Conference teams made themselves better, the Spurs are in no position to thumb their noses at young, developing talent.

Of course, the FO would've been stupid to overpay for the kid. However, seeing as what Charlotte eventually offered, it's tough for me to believe the Spurs couldn't have matched those assets.

I guess well find out if Thomas's career takes off in Charlotte. I find it kinda ironic though that Larry Brown is the coach there. How many times now has Brown completely teared up a roster, trade away picks, and all of a sudden just leave after a couple seasons?

[SenorSpur]

I guess well find out if Thomas's career takes off in Charlotte. I find it kinda ironic though that Larry Brown is the coach there. How many times now has Brown completely teared up a roster, trade away picks, and all of a sudden just leave after a couple seasons?

I'd be surprised by two things.

1. If Thomas is still on the roster by next Feb's trade deadline
2. If Larry Brown makes it through the summer.

:lol

[spurs10]

I thought people were kidding about the protected 2016 second round pick in exchange for Theo. Wow! Well maybe Ian will get some more playing time.

[SenorSpur]

I thought people were kidding about the protected 2016 second round pick in exchange for Theo. Wow! Well maybe Ian will get some more playing time.

I thought that was a joke too. WTF? A second-round pick six years from now? Are you kidding me? That franchise may not even exist in six years.

[SpursFanATL]

2016? Perhaps Charlotte's just hoping that the Spurs will have forgotten about the deal by the time they have to pay up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You know things are bleak when I am in complete agreement with AHF and Obstructed_View :lol

Oh, and bonus: we will have 54 million tied up in 7 players next year, and that's without even picking up the phone to talk to Manu about an extension. Capped out with 5 roster spots still to fill :lol

Yep, pretty fucking outstanding work by the front office this week on the trade front :tu


But Tfart will still be along to tell us all how great Pop and RC did

[Supreme_Being]

http://www.opaquelucidity.com/facepalm.jpg

[angelbelow]

lol wow 2016 protected 2nd round pick? geez

[Budkin]

Ok... yeah... this is just pathetic.

[ShoogarBear]

A top-55 protected pick.

Only the Spurs could come up with stuff like this.

[ElNono]

It's just accounting shenanigans... Most likely they won't see that pick... You just can't trade players for nothing...

[ShoogarBear]

It's just accounting shenanigans... Most likely they won't see that pick...

Ya think?

[Pentagruel]

Howabout you do something besides lick Pop and RC's taint for turning $23 million in expiring salaries into a non-existent 2016 second round draft pick?

Newsflash: We are not and never will be a premier free agent destination. The only way this franchise can reload/rebuild is via luck in the draft and trades.

They just pissed away a golden trade deadline while teams like Houston turned contractual dogshit into Kevin Martin and two first round draft picks (and potential lotto picks at that).


Houston paid a heavy price for that trade by parting with Carl Landry and taking on extra salary in Jared Jeffries. If we were to hypothetically make a similar trade it would look something like this...

To Spurs:
Kevin Martin
Jared Jeffries
Jordan Hill
Hilton Armstrong
1st Round draft pick 2012
Switch 2011

To Sacramento:
Dejuan Blair
Ian Mahimni
Larry Hughes

To New York:
Manu Ginobili
Michael Finley
Matt Bonner
Roger Mason Jr.
Sergio Rodriguez

Would you really do a trade like that? I certainly wouldn't. The fact of the matter is, that the Spurs' current situation leaves little flexibility for trades. Part of this is the large salaries paid to the big 3. The other is of course Richard Jefferson. There simply wasn't a lot the FO could do to improve the team without crippling them in the long term or throwing in the towel and rebuilding. If there is any complaint with the FO it should be that their past decisions have now put us in a position with little flexibility to change or improve. A lot of that has to do with our spending this summer as I already mentioned, but while its easy to point this out in hindsight I don't think its realistic to blame them for this current predicament. At the time those trades were made they seemed logical quality moves that would give the team a legitimate shot to contend. It didn't work out that way and its unfortunate. We simply have to deal with it and try to make the best of it. We should NOT make rash trades that exacerbate the problem.

[mystargtr34]

I like this trade, if only because it means Pop has no choice but to play Ian if he is desperate for shot blocking.

[TD 21]

Spurs missed out on a valuable opportunity to enhance and speed up the rebuilding process by not getting any future assets for their expirings.

This team has Celtics of the early 90's written all over it.

One of the writers at 48minutesofhell said it recently and they're right: the mistake wasn't bringing in Jefferson, McDyess, et al. no, the mistake would be (as of today, is) not rectifying this situation. Not only did the front office not do this, but they also sent an unmistakable message to the team and the fans: we don't think we can win a championship this season. If they really believed they could still win it, they'd have held onto Ratliff, just for the possibility that at some point they'll need him. Instead, they prioritized saving a couple of pennies.

[timvp]

The pick Spurs got is a top 55 protected 2016 second round pick.
It also seems that Spurs haven't send cash.

That's about as good of conditions as we could have hoped for. Not having to pay any money makes this a good trade. The draft pick is extremely unlikely, however at least it's not impossible.

Good trade. Although obviously it's basically meaningless in the big picture. The best outcome is if it accidentally forces Pop to play Mahinmi or Hairston.

[Pentagruel]

One of the writers at 48minutesofhell said it recently and they're right: the mistake wasn't bringing in Jefferson, McDyess, et al. no, the mistake would be (as of today, is) not rectifying this situation. Not only did the front office not do this, but they also sent an unmistakable message to the team and the fans: we don't think we can win a championship this season. If they really believed they could still win it, they'd have held onto Ratliff, just for the possibility that at some point they'll need him. Instead, they prioritized saving a couple of pennies.


How would you go about rectifying the signings of Jefferson and Mcdyess? Its easy to talk but harder to do. Would you try and dump their contracts or make a basketball trade for them? Which team would agree to any trade involving them without you including a sweetener? How would you go about rectifying the situation? What trade would you have made that another team would realistically agree to? Make a trade proposal and I will tell you if its realistic or not, and whether that trade is a wise decision for the Spurs or not. You and several others complain that nothing was done but I have yet to hear any kind of reasonable trade the FO could have made to improve the team. If you can propose a trade that is both beneficial to the Spurs either now or in the future and that another team might realistically do then I might agree with you in regards to the FO failing the team but until then this is nothing but a bunch of useless bitching.

[AFBlue]

Good trade. Although obviously it's basically meaningless in the big picture. The best outcome is if it accidentally forces Pop to play Mahinmi or Hairston.

This...I could care less if the Spurs never see a late second round pick.

Holt saved some money, shipped out a player that wasn't even worthy of Willis treatement, and opened up some limited opportunity for younger, more promising players.

In the context of what could or should have been done in the eyes of so many Spurs fans, I understand the disappointment. But the trade in and of itself is a winner.

[TD 21]

How would you go about rectifying the signings of Jefferson and Mcdyess? Its easy to talk but harder to do. Would you try and dump their contracts or make a basketball trade for them? Which team would agree to any trade involving them without you including a sweetener? How would you go about rectifying the situation? What trade would you have made that another team would realistically agree to? Make a trade proposal and I will tell you if its realistic or not, and whether that trade is a wise decision for the Spurs or not. You and several others complain that nothing was done but I have yet to hear any kind of reasonable trade the FO could have made to improve the team. If you can propose a trade that is both beneficial to the Spurs either now or in the future and that another team might realistically do then I might agree with you in regards to the FO failing the team but until then this is nothing but a bunch of useless bitching.

If the Spurs could have acquired Thomas, they could have kept both he and McDyess for the rest of the season, or, seeing as how they're cheap, they could have moved him. Sure, they'd have gotten nothing back because of his contract, but I think he was movable, namely to the Bobcats and Nuggets (though I'd prefer they not trade him their).

Jefferson is another story. He clearly wasn't movable this season, but the Spurs could have worked around that, by dealing from their cadre of expiring contracts and even using their 1st round pick, if necessary, to change their team.

Thomas and Pargo for Mason, Bonner, Mahinmi, '10 1st round pick.

McDyess for Murray, Law and if need be, a throw-in like Graham. Then the Spurs could buyout/waive them and end up with a piece they need going forward (at least theoretically, in terms of his physical tools) in Thomas.

[Pentagruel]

If the Spurs could have acquired Thomas, they could have kept both he and McDyess for the rest of the season, or, seeing as how they're cheap, they could have moved him. Sure, they'd have gotten nothing back because of his contract, but I think he was movable, namely to the Bobcats and Nuggets (though I'd prefer they not trade him their).

Jefferson is another story. He clearly wasn't movable this season, but the Spurs could have worked around that, by dealing from their cadre of expiring contracts and even using their 1st round pick, if necessary, to change their team.

Thomas and Pargo for Mason, Bonner, Mahinmi, '10 1st round pick.

McDyess for Murray, Law and if need be, a throw-in like Graham. Then the Spurs could buyout/waive them and end up with a piece they need going forward (at least theoretically, in terms of his physical tools) in Thomas.

Why would Chicago do that when they had Charlotte 1st round pick which is almost certainly going to be better then the Spurs'? They wouldn't.

Why would Charlotte trade expirers for Mcdyess who has underperformed most of this season? It just doesn't make any sense.

[jjktkk]

How would you go about rectifying the signings of Jefferson and Mcdyess? Its easy to talk but harder to do. Would you try and dump their contracts or make a basketball trade for them? Which team would agree to any trade involving them without you including a sweetener? How would you go about rectifying the situation? What trade would you have made that another team would realistically agree to? Make a trade proposal and I will tell you if its realistic or not, and whether that trade is a wise decision for the Spurs or not. You and several others complain that nothing was done but I have yet to hear any kind of reasonable trade the FO could have made to improve the team. If you can propose a trade that is both beneficial to the Spurs either now or in the future and that another team might realistically do then I might agree with you in regards to the FO failing the team but until then this is nothing but a bunch of useless bitching.

:toast

[TD 21]

Why would Chicago do that when they had Charlotte 1st round pick which is almost certainly going to be better then the Spurs'? They wouldn't.

Why would Charlotte trade expirers for Mcdyess who has underperformed most of this season? It just doesn't make any sense.

Because what's the gap really going to be? A mere couple of spots. Big deal if you pick 16th or 20th in the draft; it's a crap shoot, for the most part, at that point.

My thinking would be: we're getting two knockdown shooters (which the Bulls need) on expiring contracts that can help them now, plus a young, athletic, inexpensive big man in return. The Bulls will be bringing in probably two big free agents this off season. You add them to what Deng makes and what Rose and Noah eventually will make and you know what that means? The Bulls will need cheap talent to fill out the rest of their roster. This is where Mahinmi becomes attractive. At worst, he could be their 5th big. At best, they could have found a long term backup to Noah.

Brown is obsessed with changing his roster, was desperate for a backup PF and loves taking on veterans who know how to play. He's almost assuredly a big fan of McDyess, since he's an old school player and he used to coach him (they just acquired Ratliff today, even though they don't need him).

The Spurs were clearly passive and on the periphery when it came to Thomas. With this much information, in this day and age, had they been the aggressors, like they should have been, we'd have found out. These trades didn't happen not because they're unrealistic; they didn't happen because the Spurs clearly were passive and probably got cold feet about changing their roster that drastically mid season and taking on a problem child like Thomas.

[TD 21]

Why would Chicago do that when they had Charlotte 1st round pick which is almost certainly going to be better then the Spurs'? They wouldn't.

Why would Charlotte trade expirers for Mcdyess who has underperformed most of this season? It just doesn't make any sense.

Because what's the gap really going to be? A mere couple of spots. Big deal if you pick 17th or 20th in the draft; it's a crap shoot, for the most part, at that point. If you can get value for now and potentially some down the line on top of that, then I think it's worth it to take the slightly lower pick.

My thinking is: they'd have been getting two knockdown shooters (which the Bulls need) on expiring contracts that can help them now, plus a young, athletic, inexpensive big man in return. The Bulls will be bringing in probably two big free agents this off season. You add them to what Deng makes and what Rose and Noah eventually will make and you know what that means? The Bulls will need cheap talent to fill out the rest of their roster. This is where Mahinmi becomes attractive. At worst, he could be their 5th big. At best, they could have found a long term backup to Noah.

Brown is obsessed with changing his roster, was desperate for a backup PF and loves taking on veterans who know how to play. He's almost assuredly a big fan of McDyess, since he's an old school player and he used to coach him (they just acquired Ratliff today, even though they don't need him).

The Spurs were clearly passive and on the periphery when it came to Thomas. With this much information, in this day and age, had they been the aggressors, like they should have been, we'd have found out. These trades didn't happen not because they're unrealistic; they didn't happen because the Spurs clearly were passive and probably got cold feet about changing their roster that drastically mid season and taking on a problem child like Thomas. But keep drinking the kool-aid.

[Pentagruel]

Because what's the gap really going to be? A mere couple of spots. Big deal if you pick 17th or 20th in the draft; it's a crap shoot, for the most part, at that point. If you can get value for now and potentially some down the line on top of that, then I think it's worth it to take the slightly lower pick.

My thinking is: they'd have been getting two knockdown shooters (which the Bulls need) on expiring contracts that can help them now, plus a young, athletic, inexpensive big man in return. The Bulls will be bringing in probably two big free agents this off season. You add them to what Deng makes and what Rose and Noah eventually will make and you know what that means? The Bulls will need cheap talent to fill out the rest of their roster. This is where Mahinmi becomes attractive. At worst, he could be their 5th big. At best, they could have found a long term backup to Noah.

Brown is obsessed with changing his roster, was desperate for a backup PF and loves taking on veterans who know how to play. He's almost assuredly a big fan of McDyess, since he's an old school player and he used to coach him (they just acquired Ratliff today, even though they don't need him).

The Spurs were clearly passive and on the periphery when it came to Thomas. With this much information, in this day and age, had they been the aggressors, like they should have been, we'd have found out. These trades didn't happen not because they're unrealistic; they didn't happen because the Spurs clearly were passive and probably got cold feet about changing their roster that drastically mid season and taking on a problem child like Thomas. But keep drinking the kool-aid.

I think it will be a larger gap then that but even so, that is a significant difference. Mason, Bonner and Ian are all scraps. They are players Chicago may use this season but its highly unlikely they will be in any long term plans. A better 1st round draft pick clearly preferable in this scenario because the talent both Charlotte and San Antonio is offering is negligible.

As for Charlotte taking on Mcdyess' contract, its pure madness. Ratliff is an expirer so it doesn't harm any future plans for Charlotte. No risk. Mcdyess is a 2-year contract and partial. They would be crazy to take it on considering how he is performing this year.

I will criticize the FO when they deserve it, not simply because I am frustrated with the current performance of the team. Perhaps you have no faith in the Spurs organization, that matters not to me, but after a decade of great success I am willing to give them a little patience in a turbulent time in NBA. Transition periods within a team (from the Duncan era to the next) are always difficult to handle. Taking everything into consideration I don't think they are doing a terrible job despite the fact that the Spurs aren't doing as well as I would have hoped for.

[TD 21]

I think it will be a larger gap then that but even so, that is a significant difference. Mason, Bonner and Ian are all scraps. They are players Chicago may use this season but its highly unlikely they will be in any long term plans. A better 1st round draft pick clearly preferable in this scenario because the talent both Charlotte and San Antonio is offering is negligible.

As for Charlotte taking on Mcdyess' contract, its pure madness. Ratliff is an expirer so it doesn't harm any future plans for Charlotte. No risk. Mcdyess is a 2-year contract and partial. They would be crazy to take it on considering how he is performing this year.

I will criticize the FO when they deserve it, not simply because I am frustrated with the current performance of the team. Perhaps you have no faith in the Spurs organization, that matters not to me, but after a decade of great success I am willing to give them a little patience in a turbulent time in NBA. Transition periods within a team (from the Duncan era to the next) are always difficult to handle. Taking everything into consideration I don't think they are doing a terrible job despite the fact that the Spurs aren't doing as well as I would have hoped for.

Depends on how you project the two teams to finish. They are all scraps, but did you not just read what I said? You can't have a team of 12 stars. Two fill immediate needs, one potentially fills a long term one, all the while ostensibly replacing the player they're giving up in Thomas. They're different players, but at the end of the day they're both primarily known as athletic big men. Teams are loathe to give them up generally and getting one back wouldn't have hurt.

Have you seen some of the trades the Bobcats have made since Brown took over? This had Bobcats written all over it. If worst comes to worst, the Spurs could have kept him and Thomas the remainder of this season, then dealt McDyess in the off season when they had more time to work out a more preferable scenario.

I was patient enough the past few years and you know what? Their track record in that time sucks. It didn't have to be this difficult, though, that's the frustrating part. They could have at least attempted to salvage this thing and they didn't even do that.

How are they not doing a terrible job? They just sent a message to the team today that they've given up on them, they have a roster with now two centers, only one of which plays and one athletic big man, who doesn't play. The composition of this roster is ridiculous. One true small forward, almost no size/athleticism and on top of that, with the pieces they do have, they've done a horrendous job of integrating them, particularly Jefferson. That's not an excuse for his poor play, but it is part of the reason for it.

[Pentagruel]

Depends on how you project the two teams to finish. They are all scraps, but did you not just read what I said? You can't have a team of 12 stars. Two fill immediate needs, one potentially fills a long term one, all the while ostensibly replacing the player they're giving up in Thomas. They're different players, but at the end of the day they're both primarily known as athletic big men. Teams are loathe to give them up generally and getting one back wouldn't have hurt.

Have you seen some of the trades the Bobcats have made since Brown took over? This had Bobcats written all over it. If worst comes to worst, the Spurs could have kept him and Thomas the remainder of this season, then dealt McDyess in the off season when they had more time to work out a more preferable scenario.

I was patient enough the past few years and you know what? Their track record in that time sucks. It didn't have to be this difficult, though, that's the frustrating part. They could have at least attempted to salvage this thing and they didn't even do that.

How are they not doing a terrible job? They just sent a message to the team today that they've given up on them, they have a roster with now two centers, only one of which plays and one athletic big man, who doesn't play. The composition of this roster is ridiculous. One true small forward, almost no size/athleticism and on top of that, with the pieces they do have, they've done a horrendous job of integrating them, particularly Jefferson. That's not an excuse for his poor play, but it is part of the reason for it.


I read your post, I just disagree with it. Ian would certainly not replace Tyrus or be a long term prospect for them. He simply isn't that good. Matt Bonner and Roger Mason may indeed fill current needs with the team but is a mediocre player like Mason or Bonner for one year worth a higher draft pick next year? I absolutely don't think so. Clearly Chicago didn't think so either.

Larry Brown is a good coach and they have made several solid trades in regards to this season. Trading expirers for an old-timer like Mcdyess would be a foolish move. If the Spurs made such an offer it would be turned down immediately, regardless of whether you agree with that or not. I really think you overrate a number of our scrubs.

The only point I may agree with is that Pop should be doing a better job of integrating the new players this season and helping gel the team together. He has not done this and I think more could be had out of the team we have. Some of his faults lie in his lineups (though i am not a mindless small-ball hater) and some of it may be individual coaching such as that with Richard Jefferson. Improvements can be made but that can be said for any franchise. All in all they have done a remarkable job for a small market team like the Spurs on a low budget. This is not LA or New York where dollars are meaningless. The Spurs have always needed a clear plan for the now and then, and for the past decade they have had one. I will give them the time they need to steer the Spurs through this transition period as well.

[jjktkk]

Because what's the gap really going to be? A mere couple of spots. Big deal if you pick 16th or 20th in the draft; it's a crap shoot, for the most part, at that point.

My thinking would be: we're getting two knockdown shooters (which the Bulls need) on expiring contracts that can help them now, plus a young, athletic, inexpensive big man in return. The Bulls will be bringing in probably two big free agents this off season. You add them to what Deng makes and what Rose and Noah eventually will make and you know what that means? The Bulls will need cheap talent to fill out the rest of their roster. This is where Mahinmi becomes attractive. At worst, he could be their 5th big. At best, they could have found a long term backup to Noah.

Brown is obsessed with changing his roster, was desperate for a backup PF and loves taking on veterans who know how to play. He's almost assuredly a big fan of McDyess, since he's an old school player and he used to coach him (they just acquired Ratliff today, even though they don't need him).

The Spurs were clearly passive and on the periphery when it came to Thomas. With this much information, in this day and age, had they been the aggressors, like they should have been, we'd have found out. These trades didn't happen not because they're unrealistic; they didn't happen because the Spurs clearly were passive and probably got cold feet about changing their roster that drastically mid season and taking on a problem child like Thomas.

Yep Brown has no problem tearing up a roster, trading everything within reach, and packing his bags and leaving a team in the dust. Kudos for the Spurs not trading their 1st rounder.

[TD 21]

I read your post, I just disagree with it. Ian would certainly not replace Tyrus or be a long term prospect for them. He simply isn't that good. Matt Bonner and Roger Mason may indeed fill current needs with the team but is a mediocre player like Mason or Bonner for one year worth a higher draft pick next year? I absolutely don't think so. Clearly Chicago didn't think so either.

Larry Brown is a good coach and they have made several solid trades in regards to this season. Trading expirers for an old-timer like Mcdyess would be a foolish move. If the Spurs made such an offer it would be turned down immediately, regardless of whether you agree with that or not. I really think you overrate a number of our scrubs.

The only point I may agree with is that Pop should be doing a better job of integrating the new players this season and helping gel the team together. He has not done this and I think more could be had out of the team we have. Some of his faults lie in his lineups (though i am not a mindless small-ball hater) and some of it may be individual coaching such as that with Richard Jefferson. Improvements can be made but that can be said for any franchise. All in all they have done a remarkable job for a small market team like the Spurs on a low budget. This is not LA or New York where dollars are meaningless. The Spurs have always needed a clear plan for the now and then, and for the past decade they have had one. I will give them the time they need to steer the Spurs through this transition period as well.

How do you know for a fact he isn't that good? Seems to me he's a decent prospect and has a chance to be a rotation player in the league, only this team has a retard for a coach who doesn't like young, big, athletic players. That's three strikes against Mahinmi. Maybe it's more than one year. People get so caught up in expiring contracts, but what's wrong with resigning a player(s) if they fill needs and are affordable? They Bulls could have actually used one or two of these guys, that's my point. And that is more valuable than picking 17th over 20th, which is a crap shoot. Did the Spurs even make a concrete offer? None was reported.

I'm not overrating any of them, I'm just saying the Bulls could have used a few and the Bobcats desperately wanted a backup PF. McDyess would have been a typical Brown acquisition.

I don't want to hear that crap. I don't care about the past or the success, the recent past has not been very good and that's in large part because the front office isn't doing their jobs. What the fuck were they thinking with the Scola trade? So he's not a good fit next to Duncan, but McDyess/Bonner, they are? Nonsense. They're not steering this team anywhere, other than further into irrelevance.

[admiralsnackbar]

How do you know for a fact he isn't that good? Seems to me he's a decent prospect and has a chance to be a rotation player in the league, only this team has a retard for a coach who doesn't like young, big, athletic players. That's three strikes against Mahinmi. Maybe it's more than one year. People get so caught up in expiring contracts, but what's wrong with resigning a player(s) if they fill needs and are affordable? They Bulls could have actually used one or two of these guys, that's my point. And that is more valuable than picking 17th over 20th, which is a crap shoot. Did the Spurs even make a concrete offer? None was reported.

I'm not overrating any of them, I'm just saying the Bulls could have used a few and the Bobcats desperately wanted a backup PF. McDyess would have been a typical Brown acquisition.

I don't want to hear that crap. I don't care about the past or the success, the recent past has not been very good and that's in large part because the front office isn't doing their jobs. What the fuck were they thinking with the Scola trade? So he's not a good fit next to Duncan, but McDyess/Bonner, they are? Nonsense. They're not steering this team anywhere, other than further into irrelevance.

I don't think you're wrong to feel the way you do, but I do think you're wrong. There's no evidence that our FO didn't try to move their pieces, only that they didn't move anybody in a way that satisfied you.

By the same token, the Scola trade is still shrouded in mystery. If you want to say it was ineptitude that we let him get away, that's understandable, but you have no proof that a team that drafted him suddenly decided he couldn't play alongside Duncan. I tend to think something else happened.

[jjktkk]

[QUOTE=TD 21;4097401 Teams are loathe to give them up generally and getting one back wouldn't have hurt[/QUOTE]


Which should send a red flag as to why would the Bulls give up on Thomas, whose physical talent is off the charts, but is basically a knucklehead. Now if the Spurs could of gotten Thomas for expiring contracts, a 2nd rounder, or a combination of the two, then I would of jumped on it in a heartbeat. The Spurs are an old team and IMO need to keep their 1st rounders.

[Pentagruel]

How do you know for a fact he isn't that good? Seems to me he's a decent prospect and has a chance to be a rotation player in the league, only this team has a retard for a coach who doesn't like young, big, athletic players. That's three strikes against Mahinmi. Maybe it's more than one year. People get so caught up in expiring contracts, but what's wrong with resigning a player(s) if they fill needs and are affordable? They Bulls could have actually used one or two of these guys, that's my point. And that is more valuable than picking 17th over 20th, which is a crap shoot. Did the Spurs even make a concrete offer? None was reported.

I'm not overrating any of them, I'm just saying the Bulls could have used a few and the Bobcats desperately wanted a backup PF. McDyess would have been a typical Brown acquisition.

I don't want to hear that crap. I don't care about the past or the success, the recent past has not been very good and that's in large part because the front office isn't doing their jobs. What the fuck were they thinking with the Scola trade? So he's not a good fit next to Duncan, but McDyess/Bonner, they are? Nonsense. They're not steering this team anywhere, other than further into irrelevance.

From what I have seen of Ian Mahimni he seems like an extremely foul prone and somewhat stupid athletic bigman. Not something Chicago is looking for as they are dumping Tyrus Thomas. As for Mason and Bonner. Maybe the bulls would resign them for a pittance if they wanted to fill out their roster after getting a fat free agent next summer but the bottom line is players like them are commonplace and they can get a similar player whenever they want. A better draft pick might make a difference while Ian/Mason/Bonner will not. That is the bottom line.

There is not much more to discuss about Antonio Mcdyess. You think the bobcats would trade expiring contracts for him, I do not. Not much more to say on this subject.

The problem is as a fan you are not privy to all the information. You don't know what the FO attempted to do during this trade deadline. You seem to take for granted they are fools and lazy and made no attempt to better themselves. I don't quite understand why you think like that. Their past accomplishments for me have shown they are competent. It simply seems unlikely to me that every member of the FO has gone senile and that this is why the Spurs are not performing as well this season and last. To me a much more logical reason is that our Core players, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili mainly have simply declined and that is the main rason we are not doing as well. This past Summer our attempt to counteract their decreased talents was acquiring RJ. That hasn't worked out.

I'm really not certain what you are thinking. Do you think the FO has always been idiots and we are simply lucky to win four championships because we were able to draft Tim Duncan? Do think the FO became stupid in a timespan of 2-3 seasons? If so do you think that a likely and logical explanation or might their perhaps be another one? I really don't understand it.

[jjktkk]

From what I have seen of Ian Mahimni he seems like an extremely foul prone and somewhat stupid athletic bigman. Not something Chicago is looking for as they are dumping Tyrus Thomas. As for Mason and Bonner. Maybe the bulls would resign them for a pittance if they wanted to fill out their roster after getting a fat free agent next summer but the bottom line is players like them are commonplace and they can get a similar player whenever they want. A better draft pick might make a difference while Ian/Mason/Bonner will not. That is the bottom line.

There is not much more to discuss about Antonio Mcdyess. You think the bobcats would trade expiring contracts for him, I do not. Not much more to say on this subject.

The problem is as a fan you are not privy to all the information. You don't know what the FO attempted to do during this trade deadline. You seem to take for granted they are fools and lazy and made no attempt to better themselves. I don't quite understand why you think like that. Their past accomplishments for me have shown they are competent. It simply seems unlikely to me that every member of the FO has gone senile and that this is why the Spurs are not performing as well this season and last. To me a much more logical reason is that our Core players, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili mainly have simply declined and that is the main rason we are not doing as well. This past Summer our attempt to counteract their decreased talents was acquiring RJ. That hasn't worked out.

I'm really not certain what you are thinking. Do you think the FO has always been idiots and we are simply lucky to win four championships because we were able to draft Tim Duncan? Do think the FO because stupid in a timespan of 2-3 seasons? If so do you think that a likely and logical explanation or might their perhaps be another one? I really don't understand it.

:lolTD 21 would be an ideal candidate for the Clippers GM job.

[Pentagruel]

:lolTD 21 would be an ideal candidate for the Clippers GM job.


Haha, lets not be so cruel. We can reserve that one for TJastal.

[jjktkk]

Haha, lets not be so cruel. We can reserve that one for TJastal.

One to the Clips, the other to the Knicks. There, now we got both coasts covered.

[Manudo Flopo]

For a draft pick?? bwahahahahahaha

[Spursone]

I think we are supposed to get that midget JJ. Barreja. :downspin:
GO Small Ball GO!

[TJastal]

Haha, lets not be so cruel. We can reserve that one for TJastal.

Ahh, the "cruel" irony will be if the clippers edge out the spurs next year for the 8th seed, it'll be interesting to hear what excuses you'll be making for the F.O then.

[jjktkk]

Ahh, the "cruel" irony will be if the clippers edge out the spurs next year for the 8th seed, it'll be interesting to hear what excuses you'll be making for the F.O then.

What exactly do you want the FO to do? Break out the time machine and bring the Spurs back to 05? Admit that they secretly have the #1 overall pick in this years draft. or that they will have enough money to sign a max player this summer. RC wants to let you know personally that hes got the press conference set up this summer for the Chris Bosh signing right in front of the Alamo.

[nbaman99]

here i found it

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Tyrus Thomas has arrived in Charlotte and is expected to play against Cleveland, a day after being acquired in the Bobcats' latest deal.
Thomas and Theo Ratliff, acquired in a separate trade, walked onto the court Friday morning after taking their physicals. Most of their new teammates had already left the floor following shootaround, but guard Stephen Jackson hugged them both.

Jackson said he's excited about adding Thomas' rebounding and shot-blocking, but lamented the loss of guard Flip Murray, who was sent to Chicago on Thursday.

The Bobcats got some good news on injuries ahead of Friday night's game against the Cavaliers. Centers Nazr Mohammed and Tyson Chandler said they would try to play after missing practice the past two days with injuries.

[nbaman99]

for second round pick

[Obstructed_View]

What exactly do you want the FO to do?

I for one would like to hear someone explain why they signed Theo Ratliff in the first place when they were way into the luxury tax, only to have to salary dump him at the trade deadline.

[EmantheSpursFan]

if theres one bright spot about 2nd round draft picks
its highlights from when they play overseas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejjor_ab3Ec


:lol
the announcers voice!!
:rollin

[TD 21]

I don't think you're wrong to feel the way you do, but I do think you're wrong. There's no evidence that our FO didn't try to move their pieces, only that they didn't move anybody in a way that satisfied you.

By the same token, the Scola trade is still shrouded in mystery. If you want to say it was ineptitude that we let him get away, that's understandable, but you have no proof that a team that drafted him suddenly decided he couldn't play alongside Duncan. I tend to think something else happened.

True, there's nothing official that says the Spurs didn't try to make a move, but with the amount of information flowing, the fact that we didn't hear this team mentioned frequently or any concrete offers made is telling.

That was the word at the time: that the Spurs didn't like Scola as a fit next to Duncan because they're retarded and have this idea that two guys with solid post games can't coexist. I don't see the Lakers refusing to play Bynum with Gasol and how's that working out for them?


Which should send a red flag as to why would the Bulls give up on Thomas, whose physical talent is off the charts, but is basically a knucklehead. Now if the Spurs could of gotten Thomas for expiring contracts, a 2nd rounder, or a combination of the two, then I would of jumped on it in a heartbeat. The Spurs are an old team and IMO need to keep their 1st rounders.

We know all the concerns, but was there really much of a risk involved? Thomas has the physical tools this team needs, they didn't need to give up a ton to acquire him and he's still young enough that he basically would have been an incoming 1st round pick. He's more than likely better than what the Spurs will get picking around twentieth.


From what I have seen of Ian Mahimni he seems like an extremely foul prone and somewhat stupid athletic bigman. Not something Chicago is looking for as they are dumping Tyrus Thomas. As for Mason and Bonner. Maybe the bulls would resign them for a pittance if they wanted to fill out their roster after getting a fat free agent next summer but the bottom line is players like them are commonplace and they can get a similar player whenever they want. A better draft pick might make a difference while Ian/Mason/Bonner will not. That is the bottom line.

There is not much more to discuss about Antonio Mcdyess. You think the bobcats would trade expiring contracts for him, I do not. Not much more to say on this subject.

The problem is as a fan you are not privy to all the information. You don't know what the FO attempted to do during this trade deadline. You seem to take for granted they are fools and lazy and made no attempt to better themselves. I don't quite understand why you think like that. Their past accomplishments for me have shown they are competent. It simply seems unlikely to me that every member of the FO has gone senile and that this is why the Spurs are not performing as well this season and last. To me a much more logical reason is that our Core players, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili mainly have simply declined and that is the main rason we are not doing as well. This past Summer our attempt to counteract their decreased talents was acquiring RJ. That hasn't worked out.

I'm really not certain what you are thinking. Do you think the FO has always been idiots and we are simply lucky to win four championships because we were able to draft Tim Duncan? Do think the FO became stupid in a timespan of 2-3 seasons? If so do you think that a likely and logical explanation or might their perhaps be another one? I really don't understand it.

So in good words he's like a lot of young (particularly athletic) big men? Big deal. He'll never be needed for 35 mpg and the more he plays, the less he'll foul because he'll learn how to defend different players effectively. Just look at the quantum leap Blair made from early in the season to now defensively. Of course they're a dime a dozen, but the point is they could have helped the Bulls.

For all the talk about the Bobcats having a superior pick, the Bulls aren't getting that pick until 2012 at the earliest, according to Ludden. The Spurs clearly could have beaten that package by offering their pick this year.

Already answered this. You can attempt to use a technicality to prove your point, or you can be logical and put two and two together. I think they've gotten lazy, yes. Success will do that to some people. The fact that they thought Jefferson could become their wing stopper proves that. Have they watched him play since '06? He's declined athletically in every category, save for leaping. It has little to do with the core. They're still a championship caliber core, the problem is the team around them is no longer good enough and the contenders now are better than the contenders of the mid part of the past decade.

No, I don't think they've always been idiots, but I do think they're not quite the geniuses they were once lauded as being. Maybe it's just law of averages. You're around long enough, make enough decisions, you're bound to make your share of foolish ones. But that doesn't excuse their performance, or lack thereof, at the trade deadline. What do you not understand? They had assets, in expiring contracts. They had a 1st round pick to offer as well, they had clear needs, yet they did nothing but send an unmistakable message to the team and the fans that they don't think they can win a championship this season.

[Behrooz24]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2010021930
1st half stats: 9min 2 reb, 1 ast, 2 blocks vs the LeBrons

[mexicanjunior]

His rebounding and shot blocking would have been nice...hope that 2016 2nd rounder is worth all the Bonner/Blair front court minutes we are seeing now...

[DesignatedT]

ratliff would be absolutely terrible in this series. is this a joke? could have used him against dallas i guess... definitely against LA if we make it that far.

[mexicanjunior]

ratliff would be absolutely terrible in this series. is this a joke? could have used him against dallas i guess... definitely against LA if we make it that far.

If he had Bonner's minutes, you honestly think he would be worse? Seriously? The fact that he wasn't chucking 3 point bricks alone would probably save a few possessions...not too mention he wouldn't have given up offensive rebounds to Jared Dudley...