Jackson, Rivers criticize Cavs' deal

[duncan228]

Jackson, Rivers criticize Cavs' deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4926633)
By Dave McMenamin
ESPNLosAngeles.com

LOS ANGELES -- It wasn't quite on the same level as San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich calling for an independent trade committee to be formed in protest of the Pau Gasol deal a couple of seasons ago, but there were two coaches calling for changes to the NBA's trade process Thursday.

Both Lakers coach Phil Jackson and Celtics coach Doc Rivers had strong things to say about Cleveland's acquiring Antawn Jamison by using Zydrunas Ilgauskas as a key piece in the deal, with the eventuality assumed that Ilgauskas will be bought out from his contract by the Wizards and return to the Cavaliers after 30 days.

Jackson declined to comment on the Jamison trade when he was asked about it at Thursday's shoot-around, quipping, "I don't care about that," and dodged two more questions about it in his pregame media session before not being able to bite his tongue any longer.

"They're going to get Ilgauskas back and it's going to be one of those scenarios that we see in the NBA where you ship a player out, you get another player, then your player retires or they pay him off and then he comes back in 30 days," Jackson said. "I don't know what that does for the league. I think that's kind of a weird situation."

Rivers agreed with Jackson, even though the loophole has helped his team in the past.

"I have a problem with that," Rivers said before Thursday's Lakers-Celtics game at Staples Center. "I loved it three years ago when we did it with Gary Payton if you remember, but now I think it sucks. I think it's a terrible deal."

Rivers and the Celtics traded Payton to Atlanta in March 2005 for Antoine Walker and Payton returned to Boston after being waived by the Hawks.

"I actually do have a problem with that though. We did it, and I'm joking, but I do think . I don't know what you do [maybe] just not allow them to go back to the same team or whatever. ... I do think that will be changed eventually, but I do have a problem with it."

Rivers also suggested the trade deadline be moved up to coincide with All-Star weekend so teams come out of the break with a fresh approach and their team totally in place for the home stretch, rather than face four more days of uncertainty.

"Who am I to suggest changes in the NBA? But why doesn't the trade deadline end over the All-Star break? I don't get why we have to come back for four more days. It's such a good fit over All-Star break. Then when you come out of break, the deadline's passed, all the GMs can go to the All-Star game and get it done. I wish that's the way it happened. It would allow you to start the break with your [entire] team and allow guys to [join their new club] and not miss games like tonight, where we lose Eddie [House], and we're not allowed to use Nate [Robinson]. We wouldn't have that situation. I would love that to change."

[I]Chris Forsberg of ESPNBoston.com contributed to this report. Dave McMenamin covers the Lakers for ESPNLosAngeles.com.

[crc21209]

Yeah, probably because Boston has to go thru Cleveland in the East and the Lakers could possibly play them in the Finals...

[Darthkiller]

i have a problem with it too, it's BS that you can just trade a player and get him back for nothing.

[Chieflion]

Says Phil Jackson and Aaron McKie.

[Spursmania]

Oh, now Jackson and Rivers don't like it.:rolleyes

Does seem like a ridiculous loophole but them of all coaches have taken advantage of the leagues loopholes, so they should be the last ones complaining about it.

[redzero]

The Gasol trade is good in retrospect. The Cavs gave away nothing and got Jamison.

[mystargtr34]

I have a problem with Phil Jackson commenting on unfair trades.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, we know Stern will act on this now. The Lakers and Celtics are upset.

[TheMACHINE]

I have a problem with Phil Jackson commenting on unfair trades.

wheres the unfair trade that he was part of?

[JiggaWhat99]

I think Jackson should STFU, hello dont you remember the Gasol deal

[TheMACHINE]

I think Jackson should STFU, hello dont you remember the Gasol deal

what about it?

[milkshakeballa]

I actually really like Doc's idea of moving the deadline up to the All-Star break. Could be VERY similiar to the Winter Meetings in baseball where the GM's could all meet in a hotel lobby.

Man the rumors would be fluid as fuck coming out of there though....but shit could get done a lot QUICKER.

[PGDynasty24]

Lakers gave up a player who has turned into a great young center,2 first rounders and 12 millin in cap relief to grizz(which allowed them to get Zach Randolph). Cavs gave up 1 first rounder which will be probably the last pick and a player that is going to be released and sign right back with them. Yeah...

[HarlemHeat37]

Lakers gave up a player who has turned into a great young center,2 first rounders and 12 millin in cap relief to grizz(which allowed them to get Zach Randolph). Cavs gave up 1 first rounder which will be probably the last pick and a player that is going to be released and sign right back with them. Yeah...

:lol

[admiralsnackbar]

what about it?

Right. Because there was no controversy surrounding that trade.

[cobbler]

Says Phil Jackson and Aaron McKie.

Not at all the same thing. McKie was used as filler to make the $ work and just retired after the trade. He did not return to the team and contribute to anything.

[san antonio spurs]

what about it?

LoL at lakers fans trying to make that trade fair. I don't agree with those who think there was some collusion to make the Lakers a powerhouse, but save us the laugh of explaining how fair it was because it wasn't.

[san antonio spurs]

Lakers gave up a player who has turned into a great young center,2 first rounders and 12 millin in cap relief to grizz(which allowed them to get Zach Randolph). Cavs gave up 1 first rounder which will be probably the last pick and a player that is going to be released and sign right back with them. Yeah...
:lmao

[j.dizzle]

Sons, Marc owns his brother now haha but for real though, atleast LA had to give stuff up..Pau is younger & better then Jamison but they got him for a late 1st round pick. Oh well shit happens, no more excuses for Bron if he fails this season.

[TheMACHINE]

LoL at lakers fans trying to make that trade fair. I don't agree with those who think there was some collusion to make the Lakers a powerhouse, but save us the laugh of explaining how fair it was because it wasn't.


Right. Because there was no controversy surrounding that trade.

Yet you two cant pinpoint what was unfair about that trade. :lmao

[FkLA]

Hey guys lets trade our rights to Tiago Splitter, who's a top Center prospect in Europe and who may or may not turn into a solid player...plus 2 first rounders and Mason's, Bonner's, Finley's, and Mahinmi's expirings for Chris Bosh. That sounds like a killer deal for Toronto :)

Also Jamison is about to be 34, and has 3 yrs left including this one on a pretty fat contract. Im sure the amount of teams dying for his services are comparable to the amount that were dying for a 25 yr old Gasol's services :rolleyes

[024]

jamison is already 33. it's not like he's a young all star power forward in his prime with many years left in him. cavs are taking a big risk acquiring him and his salary because he's very close in falling off the edge now. when players decline, they don't spend 3-4 years doing it, it usually happens pretty quickly over the span of two years. jamison has definitely declined this year and will decline at a faster rate as he gets older. it's all downhill for him now.

[resistanze]

For those bitching about the trade, don't worry. I have a time machine and it turns out the first round pick the Wizards are getting will be a bigger steal than Manu Ginobilli. The deal is fair, like the Gasol trade, nothing to see here.

[ambchang]

The Gasol deal and the Kobe rape case never happened.

[Chieflion]

Not at all the same thing. McKie was used as filler to make the $ work and just retired after the trade. He did not return to the team and contribute to anything.

"They're going to get Ilgauskas back and it's going to be one of those scenarios that we see in the NBA where you ship a player out, you get another player, then your player retires or they pay him off and then he comes back in 30 days," Jackson said. "I don't know what that does for the league. I think that's kind of a weird situation."I took this out from Phil Jackson's mouth, don't blame me. That was where Aaron McKie came in. Now I only expect to see Ilgauskas ride the pine on the Cavs bench unless there are injuries. He deserves to win a ring with the Cavs.

[Basketballgirl25]

So people with the Celtics and Lakers two of the top teams complaining about it because now winning might not be as easy, next we will all hear someone from Mavs and Magic complaining about it

[lefty]

The irony :rollin

KG deal = collusion

Gasol deal = collusion

[Sportcamper]

I could be wrong…Being a Lakers fan that is highly unlikely…But it seems that Cleveland has done more trades to accommodate LeBron than any other team in the NBA…If they get Big Z back this team will be great & could possibly beat the Lakers in the NBA finals…Don’t laugh, it could happen…

[hater]

Jesus Christ. Now I have seen it all. Jackson bitching about a trade...

[hater]

I could be wrong…Being a Lakers fan that is highly unlikely…But it seems that Cleveland has done more trades to accommodate LeBron than any other team in the NBA…If they get Big Z back this team will be great & could possibly beat the Lakers in the NBA finals…Don’t laugh, it could happen…

oh, they would beat the Lakers. Easily. I would not be surprised to see a sweep.

[TheMACHINE]

lol at people who still cant pinpoint why the Gasol deal was unfair.

"Its unfair...its collusion"

"why?"

*crickets

[VBM]

lol at people who still cant pinpoint why the Gasol deal was unfair.

"Its unfair...its collusion"

"why?"

*crickets

A. Kwame Brown was the biggest bust not named Darko Milicic of the 00s.

B. Javaris Crittenton...

C. Gasol was the franchise guy...imagine if you traded Shaq for Michael Olowakandi, Jacques Vaughn and a guy like Marcin Gortat when nobody knew who he was...and did that without shopping Shaq around. When Gortat finallty put up semi-decent numbers for your team which was struggling to be the 8th seed, would you say you got a solid deal?

D. I remember Lakers fans' (most, not all) views on Kupchak before that deal. That man has never had the best negotiating skills, yet all of a sudden became a superstar GM when he should have had no leverage in a potential deal (i.e. Bynum had just gone down).

E. More of an unknown, but the Jerry West effect (and yes, he was gone by the time the deal was done). But he was a connection between the two teams nonetheless.

F. An extension of D...you're trading your franchise guy, and you don't shop him around?

[TheMACHINE]

A. Kwame Brown was the biggest bust not named Darko Milicic of the 00s.

B. Javaris Crittenton...

C. Gasol was the franchise guy...imagine if you traded Shaq for Michael Olowakandi, Jacques Vaughn and a guy like Marcin Gortat when nobody knew who he was...and did that without shopping Shaq around. When Gortat finallty put up semi-decent numbers for your team which was struggling to be the 8th seed, would you say you got a solid deal?

D. I remember Lakers fans' (most, not all) views on Kupchak before that deal. That man has never had the best negotiating skills, yet all of a sudden became a superstar GM when he should have had no leverage in a potential deal (i.e. Bynum had just gone down).

E. More of an unknown, but the Jerry West effect (and yes, he was gone by the time the deal was done). But he was a connection between the two teams nonetheless.

F. An extension of D...you're trading your franchise guy, and you don't shop him around?

Sweet...props to you for stepping up and taking the bait.

So let me see....

Gasol was traded for kwame brown like you said. He was dropped the following year to make room for cap space. Hmmm...Im assuming you dont know that some teams trade for cap space? Lets see what they got for that. Oh...they got Zach Randolph...an ALL STAR this year.

Somewhere in this list you provided was the rights to Marc Gasol. Oh wait...you "somehow" forgot to mention Marc Gasol. Well, let me enlighten you with his stats this year.

Marc Gasol:
58% FG
9.5 Rebounds
2.2 Assists
1.1 Steals
1.6 Blocks
14.8 Points

Wow..so Memphis got Marc Gasol and All Star Zach Randolph for Pau Gasol...ouch..they sure got suckered.

Thanks for trying VBM. There was a reason why noone wanted to "pinpoint" why the deal was unfair.

[resistanze]

So why complain about the Cavs trade now? Let's wait 2 years to see that if pick turns into Moses Malone.

[TheMACHINE]

So why complain about the Cavs trade now? Let's wait 2 years to see that if pick turns into Moses Malone.

They are complaining about Z returning, not the pick.

[resistanze]

They are complaining about Z returning, not the pick.

I was referring to people in this thread. But Doc Rivers needs to shut up after admitting he benefited from that crap too. They only care because it's a competitor.

[ShoogarBear]

lol at people who still cant pinpoint why the Gasol deal was unfair.

"Its unfair...its collusion"

"why?"

*crickets

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/04/18/jerry_west_2.jpg

[VBM]

Sweet...props to you for stepping up and taking the bait.

So let me see....

Gasol was traded for kwame brown like you said. He was dropped the following year to make room for cap space. Hmmm...Im assuming you dont know that some teams trade for cap space? Lets see what they got for that. Oh...they got Zach Randolph...an ALL STAR this year.

Somewhere in this list you provided was the rights to Marc Gasol. Oh wait...you "somehow" forgot to mention Marc Gasol. Well, let me enlighten you with his stats this year.

Marc Gasol:
58% FG
9.5 Rebounds
2.2 Assists
1.1 Steals
1.6 Blocks
14.8 Points

Wow..so Memphis got Marc Gasol and All Star Zach Randolph for Pau Gasol...ouch..they sure got suckered.

Thanks for trying VBM. There was a reason why noone wanted to "pinpoint" why the deal was unfair.

Players putting up numbers on a bad team? That's never happened before...they made the playoffs twice with Gasol...have they been back since that deal?

And you still don't address the idiocy of trading your franchise player without shopping him around...you're telling me LA was the only team with cap space to give out? Or maybe Pau was just a solid salesman and told Wallace, "My bro will be good one day...trade me for him!"

[TFloss32]

And you still don't address the idiocy of trading your franchise player without shopping him around...you're telling me LA was the only team with cap space to give out? Or maybe Pau was just a solid salesman and told Wallace, "My bro will be good one day...trade me for him!"

I can understand Phil and Doc's beef, but they need to choose their battles more carefully. The main difference between the Jamison trade and the Gasol/Garnett trades is a championship. Mediocre teams (Boston and LA) were set up for title runs by teams who were practically giving away their superstars in deals that had most scratching their heads. I doubt Jamison is going to make the Cavs that much better than they're already playing. I still don't see the Cavs winning the championship, but I won't credit the arrival of Jamison as the reason if they do.

RE: TheMACHINE-

You have to understand that the trade (at the time) made no sense for Memphis. You trade your superstar in Pau Gasol for two guys you knew would not produce, a Euro whose never seen an NBA court and two late first-round draft picks that might as well be second-rounders because the Lakers never pick under 25. Sure, they got some cap space by letting go of Gasol and gaining expiring contracts, but you have to remember it's freakin' Memphis. When was the last time they landed a big fish? They got lucky with a problem child like Z-Bo...you can't just say Memphis knew what they were doing all along. Just admit the Gasol trade made no sense whatsoever and enjoy your spoils!

[TheMACHINE]

Players putting up numbers on a bad team? That's never happened before...they made the playoffs twice with Gasol...have they been back since that deal?

And you still don't address the idiocy of trading your franchise player without shopping him around...you're telling me LA was the only team with cap space to give out? Or maybe Pau was just a solid salesman and told Wallace, "My bro will be good one day...trade me for him!"

So how many playoff games did Pau Gasol win with Memphis? People trade franchise players for cap space all the time. You act as if this never happened before.


I
RE: TheMACHINE-

You have to understand that the trade (at the time) made no sense for Memphis. You trade your superstar in Pau Gasol for two guys you knew would not produce, a Euro whose never seen an NBA court and two late first-round draft picks that might as well be second-rounders because the Lakers never pick under 25. Sure, they got some cap space by letting go of Gasol and gaining expiring contracts, but you have to remember it's freakin' Memphis. When was the last time they landed a big fish? They got lucky with a problem child like Z-Bo...you can't just say Memphis knew what they were doing all along. Just admit the Gasol trade made no sense whatsoever and enjoy your spoils!


Just because its memphis, they dont have the right to get rid of a big contract to start over? The Clippers just unloaded a bunch of contracts...is that bad cuz its the Clippers? Everyone and thier mom knew what Memphis was doing. Did anyone really think Memphis was going to keep Kwame Brown? The Gasol made perfect sense to people who follow the game. 2 years later...look at Memphis now.

[TheMACHINE]

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/04/18/jerry_west_2.jpg

Was Jerry West in the Memphis payroll at the time of the trade?

Ok..thanks for trying.

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

The irony :rollin

KG deal = collusion

Gasol deal = collusion


Gasol = good trade for both teams

KG = collusion

Jefferson = spurs FO Dick raped up the ass :lol

[rjv]

phil jackson-king of the double standard.

[monosylab1k]

Sweet...props to you for stepping up and taking the bait.

So let me see....

Gasol was traded for kwame brown like you said. He was dropped the following year to make room for cap space. Hmmm...Im assuming you dont know that some teams trade for cap space? Lets see what they got for that. Oh...they got Zach Randolph...an ALL STAR this year.

Somewhere in this list you provided was the rights to Marc Gasol. Oh wait...you "somehow" forgot to mention Marc Gasol. Well, let me enlighten you with his stats this year.

Marc Gasol:
58% FG
9.5 Rebounds
2.2 Assists
1.1 Steals
1.6 Blocks
14.8 Points

Wow..so Memphis got Marc Gasol and All Star Zach Randolph for Pau Gasol...ouch..they sure got suckered.

Thanks for trying VBM. There was a reason why noone wanted to "pinpoint" why the deal was unfair.

See, again, this is what you fucking retarded ass Laker fans don't get -

WHAT MARC GASOL IS DOING RIGHT NOW HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRADE MADE TWO YEARS AGO.

Two years ago Marc Gasol was not a double-double quality NBA player. He wasn't even a lottery pick prospect with potential.

Two years ago Marc Gasol was a 2nd round pick draft/stash player with zero NBA trade value. ZERO. TRADE. VALUE.

Here's a link to a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Comic on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-TEENAGE-MUTANT-NINJA-TURTLES-1st-PRINT-VERY-RARE-VF_W0QQitemZ280442829609QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item414bb1fb29#ht_694wt_1166

It's available for $4999.99.

Now back in 1984 this comic book was originally printed, was it sold for $4999.99? No. Probably sold for less than 2 dollars. Was the seller a moron for selling it back in 1984 for 2 dollars? Was the buyer some genius for getting a 2 dollar comic in 1984? No. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE VALUE OF THE COMIC AT THE TIME. WHAT THE COMIC COSTS NOW HAD NO BEARING ON IT'S 1984 VALUE.

Same here. What Marc Gasol is doing right now is COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT because in 07-08 he was worth nothing more than a 2nd round draft/stash. He was Nick Calathes. NOTHING MORE. HIS TRADE VALUE WAS NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.

Meaning the Lakers traded the biggest bust in NBA history, a shitty 12th man, and a 2nd round draft/stash player for a top 10 player in the NBA. Which is a bullshit, unfair trade. END OF STORY.

What the Grizzlies have done since then has absolutely nothing to do with how terrible that trade was at the time.

[TheMACHINE]

See, again, this is what you fucking retarded ass Laker fans don't get -

WHAT MARC GASOL IS DOING RIGHT NOW HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRADE MADE TWO YEARS AGO.

Two years ago Marc Gasol was not a double-double quality NBA player. He wasn't even a lottery pick prospect with potential.

Two years ago Marc Gasol was a 2nd round pick draft/stash player with zero NBA trade value. ZERO. TRADE. VALUE.

Here's a link to a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Comic on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-TEENAGE-MUTANT-NINJA-TURTLES-1st-PRINT-VERY-RARE-VF_W0QQitemZ280442829609QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item414bb1fb29#ht_694wt_1166

It's available for $4999.99.

Now back in 1984 this comic book was originally printed, was it sold for $4999.99? No. Probably sold for less than 2 dollars. Was the seller a moron for selling it back in 1984 for 2 dollars? Was the buyer some genius for getting a 2 dollar comic in 1984? No. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE VALUE OF THE COMIC AT THE TIME. WHAT THE COMIC COSTS NOW HAD NO BEARING ON IT'S 1984 VALUE.

Same here. What Marc Gasol is doing right now is COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT because in 07-08 he was worth nothing more than a 2nd round draft/stash. He was Nick Calathes. NOTHING MORE. HIS TRADE VALUE WAS NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.

Meaning the Lakers traded the biggest bust in NBA history, a shitty 12th man, and a 2nd round draft/stash player for a top 10 player in the NBA. Which is a bullshit, unfair trade. END OF STORY.

What the Grizzlies have done since then has absolutely nothing to do with how terrible that trade was.


HAHAHA...Damn sons...

YOU NEVER HEARD OF SCOUTS? I GUESS NOT.

[TheNextGen]

To be fair, anyone who followed international basketball knew that Marc Gasol was pretty good.

[monosylab1k]

HAHAHA...Damn sons...

YOU NEVER HEARD OF SCOUTS? I GUESS NOT.

Scouts like the ones who said Sam Bowie was a better pick than Michael Jordan? Good one.

[monosylab1k]

To be fair, anyone who followed international basketball knew that Marc Gasol was pretty good.

That means nothing, Laker Fan, his NBA trade value was that of a 2nd round draft/stash pick who played ZERO MINUTES OF NBA BASKETBALL.

Anyone who followed international basketball knew that Nikoloz Tskitishvili or Chris Anstey or Darko was good too. They still turned out shit in the NBA.

[TheMACHINE]

Scouts like the ones who said Sam Bowie was a better pick than Michael Jordan? Good one.

exactly.....sometimes you hit em, sometimes you miss em. Whats your point again?

[Trainwreck2100]

It wasn't quite on the same level as San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich calling for an independent trade committee to be formed in protest of the Pau Gasol deal a couple of seasons ago,.


that shit was tongue in cheek

[monosylab1k]

exactly.....sometimes you hit em, sometimes you miss em. Whats your point again?

What's yours?

[TheNextGen]

That means nothing, Laker Fan, his NBA trade value was that of a 2nd round draft/stash pick who played ZERO MINUTES OF NBA BASKETBALL.

That's bullshit cuz West traded Divac for some high school kid named Kobe Bryant. Sorry mono, but you're trying to base a trade on current value without thinking of future implications.

[TheMACHINE]

That's bullshit cuz West traded Divac for some high school kid named Kobe Bryant. Sorry mono, but you're trying to base a trade on current value without thinking of future implications.

:toast

[monosylab1k]

That's bullshit cuz West traded Divac for some high school kid named Kobe Bryant. Sorry mono, but you're trying to base a trade on current value without thinking of future implications.

Kobe was a mid 1st round selection at the time of the trade. Divac was a decent but unspectacular player. Trades like that happen all the time.

Do you understand that the value of a lottery pick is significantly higher than a late 1st round pick, which is significantly higher than a 2nd round pick?

Try again.

[TheNextGen]

Kobe was a mid 1st round selection at the time of the trade. Divac was a decent but unspectacular player. Trades like that happen all the time.

Try again.

and what was Pau Gasol exactly? A player who couldn't win a playoff game traded for capspace and a young center without a big contract.

[monosylab1k]

and what was Pau Gasol exactly? A player who couldn't win a playoff game traded for capspace and a young center without a big contract.

Trying to put Gasol on the same level as Divac is just obtuse. You're reaching badly.

[TheMACHINE]

Kobe was a mid 1st round selection at the time of the trade. Divac was a decent but unspectacular player. Trades like that happen all the time.

Do you understand that the value of a lottery pick is significantly higher than a late 1st round pick, which is significantly higher than a 2nd round pick?

Try again.

Who gives a fuck about value...they're trying to dump capspace. At the end, the numbers work...so its legit. Each team got exactly what they want.

[hater]

LMAO lakerfan still having to defend the Gasol trade

[monosylab1k]

Who gives a fuck about value...they're trying to dump capspace.

That explains the subsequent Mike Miller trade.

[TheNextGen]

Trying to put Gasol on the same level as Divac is just obtuse. You're reaching badly.

Gasol accomplished practically the same amount of success then Divac did at the time.

[TheMACHINE]

LMAO lakerfan still having to defend the Gasol trade

LOL butthurt Spursfan cant argue why it was unfair.

[monosylab1k]

Gasol accomplished practically the same amount of success then Divac did at the time.

:lmao ok

LeBron and Jason Terry have both lost in the NBA Finals. They've accomplished practically the same amount of success.

LeBron = Jason Terry

gotcha :tu

[j.dizzle]

LOL CIA POP still butt hurt but says he isnt to the media now. BTW how come Spurs didnt make any trades for a big to play by Duncan? Blair is a good player but how is he supposed to guard Dirk or Haywood?

[ambchang]

Marc Gasol had little upside back then, because he was simply known as the fat brother of Pau Gasol. The reason he made a vast improvement this year was because he whipped himself in shape. Back then, the trade was viewed mainly as a salary dump, and the Grizzlies were not the only team that could offer that.

Further proof of the value Marc Gasol had back then:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/080201detailsofthedeal.html


The Grizzlies weren't going anywhere with Gasol and are already firmly in rebuilding mode. They get some salary cap space with Kwame's expiring contract. On the court, they get the benefit of Kwame's defensive prowess. They also get Javaris Crittenton, who has shown immense promise in his limited time on the court. With the development of Jordan Farmar, he has been pushed to the background, perhaps more than was envisioned when he was drafted last summer. While the Grizzlies already have 3 point guards in Conley, Jr., Navarro and Lowry, they are all shorter point guards and Javaris with his height will bring a different dimension to their point guard mix. The Grizzlies also get 1st round picks in 2008 and 2010.

Notice the lack of mention of the potential of Marc Gasol. He was thrown in as an afterthought.

Here is another article written back then:
http://www.dailycampus.com/2.7439/lakers-get-better-end-of-gasol-trade-1.1055344


For a struggling organization such as Memphis, the front office will often trade its highest-paid players for less expensive, younger ones hoping for a stronger team in the future. However, the outcome of this transaction will not improve the team, even after the 2010 draft. There are only two ways this team will improve from where it is now to 2010.

First, each of its first round draft picks (not the two from L.A.) from 2008, 2009 and 2010 need to be top-10 selections. That gives the Grizzlies at least two first round picks in 2008 and 2010, pending more trades before then.

Second, the Grizzlies need to acquire a true veteran who is willing to work with younger players. That doesn't seem too likely at the moment, since Memphis is on the "our only chance of getting to the playoffs depends on ticket availability" tier of the Western Conference - also known as the "our chance of getting to the playoffs is as good as Greg Oden's chance of being asked for identification when purchasing alcohol" tier. Veterans tend to go to title-contending teams anyway - a group Memphis has never been a part of.

Again, Marc Gasol wasn't even in the discussion when talking about young talent.

Stop rewritting history.

[ambchang]

and what was Pau Gasol exactly? A player who couldn't win a playoff game traded for capspace and a young center without a big contract.

Why is it Gasol's fault that the Grizzlies can't win a playoff game? Fact that he carried that coarpse of a team to the playoffs was reason enough that Gasol is a fantastic player.

Is he on the same level as a Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Duncan or Nowitzki? Of course not, but he was far and away more valuable than a bunch of scrubs, picks and cap relief.

Bosh can't even carry the much more talented Raptors past the 1st round in the weak Eastern Conference. Would you trade him for scrubs, low 1st round draft picks and cap space?

[TheMACHINE]

Sorry Spurs Fans....i totally forgot why you guys were so butt hurt about this trade...cuz we eliminated you in 2008. I understand completely now.

But id figure you should be more mad at Sasha for owning Manu...o well.

[TheMACHINE]

Bosh can't even carry the much more talented Raptors past the 1st round in the weak Eastern Conference. Would you trade him for scrubs, low 1st round draft picks and cap space?

Yes. If i wanted to rebuild my team.

[TheNextGen]

Why is it Gasol's fault that the Grizzlies can't win a playoff game? Fact that he carried that coarpse of a team to the playoffs was reason enough that Gasol is a fantastic player.

Is he on the same level as a Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Duncan or Nowitzki? Of course not, but he was far and away more valuable than a bunch of scrubs, picks and cap relief.

Bosh can't even carry the much more talented Raptors past the 1st round in the weak Eastern Conference. Would you trade him for scrubs, low 1st round draft picks and cap space?

If Duncan, Manu or Parker isn't working out, I'd definately do it in hope of landing a free agent.

[VBM]

Sorry Spurs Fans....i totally forgot why you guys were so butt hurt about this trade...cuz we eliminated you in 2008. I understand completely now.

But id figure you should be more mad at Sasha for owning Manu...o well.

I'm more mad at you guys letting KG win a ring in 08...that %#$^^$

[j.dizzle]

I'm more mad at you guys letting KG win a ring in 08...that %#$^^$
Son, dont worry him & his team will go down as 1 hit wonders. :toast He can barely move & jump now..He played hard though yesterday for obvious reasons.

[VBM]

Son, dont worry him & his team will go down as 1 hit wonders. :toast He can barely move & jump now..He played hard though yesterday for obvious reasons.

You don't understand though...I would have loved nothing more than to see him go ring-less. He trashtalks like no-one else even though he let the one and only Zaza Pachulia punk his ass. The whole "anything is possible" rant honestly killed any joy I had of LA getting destroyed in the clinching game...

<end hate>

http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/chappelle-player-haters-ball-low.jpg

[milkshakeballa]

#1) LOL @ people STILL talking about this like its going to change anything. Collusion or not the Lakers have Gasol BITCHES!!!

#2) Just because the media doesn't mention Marc Gasol in their articles doesn't mean he was an after thought LMAO.

#3) The Lakers actually tried everything they could to NOT include Marc Gasol in the trade....but Memphis wouldn't budge. They DEMANDED he be included in the deal or no deal you fuckfaces.


Sorry your front office isn't intelligent enough to take advantage of a team trying to achieve capspace.

Your cap space move: DICK FUCKIGN JEFFERSON

Lakers: PAU GASOL



:lmao: :rollin: :rollin:

[j.dizzle]

Fuckin A I still cant believe a player like Dick can make over a mil a month playing defense like Fisher..Crazy shit, he must have the biggest smile on his face when he's checking his bank account statements.

[anonoftheinternets]

If Duncan, Manu or Parker isn't working out, I'd definately do it in hope of landing a free agent.

any reason why you only post in the NBA forum? and one of your few posts in the spurs forum was the lakers vs spurs game? :rolleyes

[TheMACHINE]

Who needs collusion when you can just tank a season to get a lottery pick. ;)

[DAF86]

Not at all the same thing. McKie was used as filler to make the $ work and just retired after the trade. He did not return to the team and contribute to anything.

Wasn't he retired prior to the trade and told him to come back just to make the deal work?

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

Fuckin A I still cant believe a player like Dick can make over a mil a month playing defense like Fisher..Crazy shit, he must have the biggest smile on his face when he's checking his bank account statements.

No one in the NBA plays defense like fisher

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

LMAO lakerfan still having to defend the Gasol trade

We don't have to defend it. Everyone other than butthurt Spur fans realize it was a good trade for Memphis (including Memphis fan). Common knowledge by now.

KG was still obvious collusion by best buds. The fact that Mchale turned down Bynum and Odom makes it look even worse.

Pop tried his best to make a trade for some good Dick but instead he got a 14 million dollar, STD infested Dick that never gets hard.

Where's your trade committee now, Pops?

[ShoogarBear]

Was Jerry West in the Memphis payroll at the time of the trade?

Ok..thanks for trying.

Oh, yeah. He couldn't possibly have had anything to do with it.


:lmao

[TheMACHINE]

Oh, yeah. He couldn't possibly have had anything to do with it.


:lmao

is it collusion if he did?

yes sir, you failed again.

:lmao

[monosylab1k]

I'm glad Laker Fan still has no explanation as to why Memphis was so desperate for cap relief when dumping their best player, but suddenly demanded fair trade value for their second best player.

[kingmalaki]

lol at people who still cant pinpoint why the Gasol deal was unfair.

"Its unfair...its collusion"

"why?"

*crickets

Can't we say the adding of McKie was unfair since the league closed that loophole later on? Isn't the loophole what Phil is complaining about ?

[mqywaaah]

I hate this too! Hope this type of system changes. After *cough cought* we get *cough cough* Gooden. ;)

[cobbler]

I'm glad Laker Fan still has no explanation as to why Memphis was so desperate for cap relief when dumping their best player, but suddenly demanded fair trade value for their second best player.

They wanted Gasol out. It's well known that the season ticket holders were pressuring the FO. They wanted the largest expiring contract and combo of future picks they could get. Now that they had the cap room and a good group of young players... they start their rebuilding process. If they wanted more cap space i suppose they could have looked for another expiring. What is so absurd with them wanting fair trade value for their second best player?
They used the cap space and picks to pick up Zach. So in essence, they got Marc Gasol and Zack for Pau. Seems to me like it worked out pretty wel for all involved.

[KB24 MVP]

They wanted Gasol out. It's well known that the season ticket holders were pressuring the FO. They wanted the largest expiring contract and combo of future picks they could get. Now that they had the cap room and a good group of young players... they start their rebuilding process. If they wanted more cap space i suppose they could have looked for another expiring. What is so absurd with them wanting fair trade value for their second best player?
They used the cap space and picks to pick up Zach. So in essence, they got Marc Gasol and Zack for Pau. Seems to me like it worked out pretty wel for all involved.
i agree on that but hey its ok its between tile contenders anyways we got Pau they dont, fare trade or not we got him same with Cavs got Jamison dosent matter how they got him but they got him...

[Dunc n Dave]

#3) The Lakers actually tried everything they could to NOT include Marc Gasol in the trade....but Memphis wouldn't budge. They DEMANDED he be included in the deal or no deal you fuckfaces.

:lmao: :rollin: :rollin:

Link, please?

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

Link, please?

It's a documented fact. Chris Wallace has stated in a number of interviews Marc was a key piece in the trade. So has Mitch.

Do your own work. We could care less if you choose to live in ignorance.

[Dunc n Dave]

It's a documented fact. Chris Wallace has stated in a number of interviews Marc was a key piece in the trade. So has Mitch.

Do your own work. We could care less if you choose to live in ignorance.

Oh, the irony in that statement coming from a Laker fan...

[monosylab1k]

It's well known that the season ticket holders were pressuring the FO.

:lmao :lmao :lmao Yes, it's well known how most NBA fans will demand their team salary dump their best player! that's just how fans are!

Laker Fan is so freaking stupid.


So in essence, they got Marc Gasol and Zack for Pau.

I've already pointed out very clearly why using Randolph/Marc Gasol's current performance as justification for a trade made 2 years ago is absolutely ridiculous, obtuse, and nothing more than an attempt to justify collusion.

[cobbler]

:lmao :lmao :lmao Yes, it's well known how most NBA fans will demand their team salary dump their best player! that's just how fans are!

Laker Fan is so freaking stupid..


What a moron. Where in my comment did I say they demanded the team dump salary. They were not happy with the direction of the team and specifically Pau. They wanted him out. Trade, Salary dump, whatever. Just gone.

“I have no buyer’s remorse,” Heisley said. “Listen, I can’t tell you how many people would tell me, wherever I went in Memphis, ‘Get rid of Gasol. …Trade Gasol.’

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


I've already pointed out very clearly why using Randolph/Marc Gasol's current performance as justification for a trade made 2 years ago is absolutely ridiculous, obtuse, and nothing more than an attempt to justify collusion.

Some people can evaluate talent and project and others cannot. Don't feel bad you didn't recognize like some of us did. The draft picks and cap space were obtained so they could aquire a top notch player. They chose Zach. One clearly lead to the other. It's not rocket science.


"Many people thought Marc was just a throw-in in that trade, but Memphis had targeted him all along," said Herb Rudoy, Marc's agent. "If Marc wasn't included, Memphis never would have done it."

http://www.pe.com/sports/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_S_gasol_22.969b466.html


Several sources close to the process insist West played no part, and Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”

Heisley didn’t offer up those names, but insisted, “Chicago wouldn’t offer us any of their good, core players,” he said. “Our people told me that we weren’t able to get equal trade value for Gasol and that we needed to do a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks. It was no secret in the league that we were considering offers for him, but the Lakers were the one team that stepped up.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[RedsLakers24]

What a moron. Where in my comment did I say they demanded the team dump salary. They were not happy with the direction of the team and specifically Pau. They wanted him out. Trade, Salary dump, whatever. Just gone.

“I have no buyer’s remorse,” Heisley said. “Listen, I can’t tell you how many people would tell me, wherever I went in Memphis, ‘Get rid of Gasol. …Trade Gasol.’

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



Some people can evaluate talent and project and others cannot. Don't feel bad you didn't recognize like some of us did. The draft picks and cap space were obtained so they could aquire a top notch player. They chose Zach. One clearly lead to the other. It's not rocket science.


"Many people thought Marc was just a throw-in in that trade, but Memphis had targeted him all along," said Herb Rudoy, Marc's agent. "If Marc wasn't included, Memphis never would have done it."

http://www.pe.com/sports/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_S_gasol_22.969b466.html


Several sources close to the process insist West played no part, and Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”

Heisley didn’t offer up those names, but insisted, “Chicago wouldn’t offer us any of their good, core players,” he said. “Our people told me that we weren’t able to get equal trade value for Gasol and that we needed to do a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks. It was no secret in the league that we were considering offers for him, but the Lakers were the one team that stepped up.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

LOL I dont hear any Mavs fans or Spurs fans responding to this, :lmao

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Few people are going to read this, let alone be convinced by it but let's look at a few facts.

In 2007, before all these alleged "collusion" trades began, the leaders of the league were:

West: Spurs, Mavs, Suns.
East: Pistons, Cavs.

No one else was elite, and the Cavs weren't even truly elite yet.

Now suddenly Boston goes from lottery to favorite. McHale raped our team and helped Boston. Is that collusion? How about good business instead, building a trading partner for the future. That is of course if McHale stuck around to deal with the Celtics, he didn't. All Boston gave up was Al Jefferson, draft picks and role players to get Garnett and Allen.

Then the Lakers get Gasol. No one seems to mention that Gasol had been on the trade block for months. I would have to assume offers were made unless someone can prove otherwise as there was interest from many teams, including Chicago and Phoenix back in late 2007. One excuse of the critics is the Lakers gave up nothing to get Gasol (Maybe Lamar Odom would have made the critics happy as he is a decent player, but he also wasn't expiring). So, the feeling is if Memphis had shopped Gasol around more, they could have received better players than Kwame Brown. Well, this seems to fail against the argument that Memphis just wanted expiring contracts. Suppose they get Luol Deng from Chicago or Amare Stoudemire from Phoenix. All they have done is traded one "franchise" player for another, who is also uinder contract for a few more years, and no cap relief in sight. However, these trades are neutral. No team gets a talent advantage over another. Therefore no one bitches about it.

Jerry West did nothing more than tell Mitch Kupchak that Gasol was available, but that was common knowledge. There was no collusion, it's just business like McHale and Ainge working together. What are they supposed to do, not deal because the haters will cry foul? Every NBA executive is connected to several teams in some way, shape, or form. It's always going to be easy to cry collusion.

The real cold hard truth is, both the Garnett/Allen and Gasol trades vaulted the Celtics and the Lakers ahead of the preseason favorite teams. The fact that it's also the Celtics and the Lakers, the two best and most hated franchises, leads the haters to never shut up about collusion and fixes. ie "Stern fixed it for a Celtics/Lakers finals."

So now it comes full circle. The Celtics and Lakers coaches are bitching about Big Z going back to the Cavs. Well, tough. All I can say is worry about your team coaches and fans, not the other guy.

[pauls931]

I'm just happy they didn't get stoudamire, that would have been a disaster.

[Obstructed_View]

If it had been a fair trade, Laker fans wouldn't have to include the guys the Grizzlies picked up in free agency as a result of dumping Pau's salary to make it sound more balanced.

[TheMACHINE]

Few people are going to read this, let alone be convinced by it but let's look at a few facts.

In 2007, before all these alleged "collusion" trades began, the leaders of the league were:

West: Spurs, Mavs, Suns.
East: Pistons, Cavs.

No one else was elite, and the Cavs weren't even truly elite yet.

Now suddenly Boston goes from lottery to favorite. McHale raped our team and helped Boston. Is that collusion? How about good business instead, building a trading partner for the future. That is of course if McHale stuck around to deal with the Celtics, he didn't. All Boston gave up was Al Jefferson, draft picks and role players to get Garnett and Allen.

Then the Lakers get Gasol. No one seems to mention that Gasol had been on the trade block for months. I would have to assume offers were made unless someone can prove otherwise as there was interest from many teams, including Chicago and Phoenix back in late 2007. One excuse of the critics is the Lakers gave up nothing to get Gasol (Maybe Lamar Odom would have made the critics happy as he is a decent player, but he also wasn't expiring). So, the feeling is if Memphis had shopped Gasol around more, they could have received better players than Kwame Brown. Well, this seems to fail against the argument that Memphis just wanted expiring contracts. Suppose they get Luol Deng from Chicago or Amare Stoudemire from Phoenix. All they have done is traded one "franchise" player for another, who is also uinder contract for a few more years, and no cap relief in sight. However, these trades are neutral. No team gets a talent advantage over another. Therefore no one bitches about it.

Jerry West did nothing more than tell Mitch Kupchak that Gasol was available, but that was common knowledge. There was no collusion, it's just business like McHale and Ainge working together. What are they supposed to do, not deal because the haters will cry foul? Every NBA executive is connected to several teams in some way, shape, or form. It's always going to be easy to cry collusion.

The real cold hard truth is, both the Garnett/Allen and Gasol trades vaulted the Celtics and the Lakers ahead of the preseason favorite teams. The fact that it's also the Celtics and the Lakers, the two best and most hated franchises, leads the haters to never shut up about collusion and fixes. ie "Stern fixed it for a Celtics/Lakers finals."

So now it comes full circle. The Celtics and Lakers coaches are bitching about Big Z going back to the Cavs. Well, tough. All I can say is worry about your team coaches and fans, not the other guy.

Good post, but dont compare 2007 Celtics with 2007 Lakers. Celtics were so crappy they were chantiing MVP to Kobe at the Garden. The first half of the 2008 season, the Lakers were first in the COnference. The Gasol trade made the Lakers a championship team, but without Gasol, they were probably a WCF team.

[Dunc n Dave]

"Many people thought Marc was just a throw-in in that trade, but Memphis had targeted him all along," said Herb Rudoy, Marc's agent. "If Marc wasn't included, Memphis never would have done it."

http://www.pe.com/sports/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_S_gasol_22.969b466.html



You use a quote from Marc Gasol's agent to back up Laker fan claims that Memphis DEMANDED Marc Gasol be included in the trade or else it was off??? :lol

What do you expect his AGENT to say? You really think he's gonna admit that his CLIENT was a throw-in at the time? Still have yet to see anyone from the Memphis organization say that Marc Gasol was the focal point of that trade.

[cobbler]

You use a quote from Marc Gasol's agent to back up Laker fan claims that Memphis DEMANDED Marc Gasol be included in the trade or else it was off??? :lol

What do you expect his AGENT to say? You really think he's gonna admit that his CLIENT was a throw-in at the time? Still have yet to see anyone from the Memphis organization say that Marc Gasol was the focal point of that trade.

"He would fit," Wallace said, describing the 7-1, 265-pounder as much improved and an offensive dynamo. "He would be a very good addition to the team. All good additions are important right now. We'd like to get him in here, and I think he's ready to come over. He's really made a tremendous improvement, one of the most startling you'll see. He's a key reason why we made this deal. He was a second-round pick last year. There's no question he'd go in the first round this year.

That would be Chris Wallace. Memphis GM. Now you have seen it. A simple google search would have shown you. Good enough for you now? Spurfan really should do a little research before making himself look foolish. :lol

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/apr/11/marc-gasols-potential-has-griz-eager/

[RedsLakers24]

"He would fit," Wallace said, describing the 7-1, 265-pounder as much improved and an offensive dynamo. "He would be a very good addition to the team. All good additions are important right now. We'd like to get him in here, and I think he's ready to come over. He's really made a tremendous improvement, one of the most startling you'll see. He's a key reason why we made this deal. He was a second-round pick last year. There's no question he'd go in the first round this year.

That would be Chris Wallace. Memphis GM. Good enough for you now? Spurfan really should do a little research before making himself look foolish. :lol

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/apr/11/marc-gasols-potential-has-griz-eager/

Spurs fans arent goin to agree with u, there just mad thinking it was an unfair trade, like we gave nothing away, i still remember reports saying that Marc would have been a 1st round draft pick if he would have been drafted the year he got traded, just let spurs fans believe what they want to believe

[cobbler]

Spurs fans arent goin to agree with u, there just mad thinking it was an unfair trade, like we gave nothing away, i still remember reports saying that Marc would have been a 1st round draft pick if he would have been drafted the year he got traded, just let spurs fans believe what they want to believe

Of course they wont. Haters gotta hate. But the facts remain the facts and I just showed him EXACTLY what he said he's never seen. There are numerous articles where Heisly and Walace mention Marc as being a key component to the trade. Look at what the Grizz have done. The got Marc and cleared space to obtain Zach. They still own the Lakers pick and the Wizzards pick which is projected top 10. In hindsight, it would appear they did pretty well in the trade. Those of us who saw it then were laughed at and labled homers and idiots. Look who's laughing now. Everything that I said would come true at the time of the trade has done just that. Some people have vision, others don't. With the latter, you see a lot anomosity. It's just ignorance though. Lopsided my ass!

[kingmalaki]

Can't we say the adding of McKie was unfair since the league closed that loophole later on? Isn't the loophole what Phil is complaining about ?

No response on this from team LA??

"Crickets"

[cobbler]

No response on this from team LA??

"Crickets"

They added a player to the deal that had just decided to retire. It was to make the $$ right. At the time it was NOT unfair or illegal. It was decided this was not a good practice and that action was further banned. If the Wiz decide Big Z isnt in their plans and buy him out so be it. Nothing wrong with that. If Big Z and the Cavs decide to hook back up so be it. Nothing wrong with that either. The two teams talking about and agreeing on it as part of the deal is against the rules. Not a loophole. Definetely against the rules.

[Andrew Bynum]

It's been over two years and this shit is still being debated like it happened yesterday, jesus christ people. Give it a rest.

[cnyc3]

Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”




Heisley also said he was keeping the Grizz in Vancouver...

[redzero]

Complaining about the Gasol trade isn't going to change anything, and Lakers fans really don't have to defend it at all, rigged or not.

[namlook]

Heisley also said he was keeping the Grizz in Vancouver...

Two totally different things that you can't compare.

Saying West didn't know about the deal is reporting a FACT that already occurred. Saying he planned to keep the Grizz in Vancouver is making a prediction about a future event that has not yet occurred. Obviously people can legitimately change their minds about future plans, but past events cannot change.

[namlook]

Hey guys lets trade our rights to Tiago Splitter, who's a top Center prospect in Europe and who may or may not turn into a solid player...plus 2 first rounders and Mason's, Bonner's, Finley's, and Mahinmi's expirings for Chris Bosh. That sounds like a killer deal for Toronto :)


That is a good deal for Toronto if they want to free up money to go after someone else or if Bosh is not in their plans for the future. They can use Bosh's money to sign another comparable player next year and they get Splitter and two firsts as a bonus.

[Dunc n Dave]

"He would fit," Wallace said, describing the 7-1, 265-pounder as much improved and an offensive dynamo. "He would be a very good addition to the team. All good additions are important right now. We'd like to get him in here, and I think he's ready to come over. He's really made a tremendous improvement, one of the most startling you'll see. He's a key reason why we made this deal. He was a second-round pick last year. There's no question he'd go in the first round this year.

That would be Chris Wallace. Memphis GM. Now you have seen it. A simple google search would have shown you. Good enough for you now? Spurfan really should do a little research before making himself look foolish. :lol

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/apr/11/marc-gasols-potential-has-griz-eager/

Thanks cobbler for providing that info. Never heard that from Chris Wallace, as I don't read the Memphis newspapers.

And it's funny how some you guys think I should "research it" when I wasn't the one who made the claim that the Grizz "DEMANDED he be included in the deal or it was off." The burden of proof should be on the one who made the statement.

I ask for a link as proof of what milkshakeballa CLAIMS was said and a couple of you tell me to find it myself?

And funny how all the Laker fans in here are lining up like they all thought it was a fair trade since the day that is was made and have supposedly "stuck to their guns" on the deal since Day One. It reality, it's the same bandwagon fans jumpin on the "Gasol trade was a fair trade" bandwagon too.

[cnyc3]

Two totally different things that you can't compare.

Saying West didn't know about the deal is reporting a FACT that already occurred. Saying he planned to keep the Grizz in Vancouver is making a prediction about a future event that has not yet occurred. Obviously people can legitimately change their minds about future plans, but past events cannot change.

Not really. Its not so much a prediction than a Lie. Heisley knew all along he was going to move the grizz. So it can be a possibility that he's lying about Jerry.

Regardless, my comment is more towards Heisley :ihit than the gasol trade itself

[cobbler]

Thanks cobbler for providing that info. Never heard that from Chris Wallace, as I don't read the Memphis newspapers.

And it's funny how some you guys think I should "research it" when I wasn't the one who made the claim that the Grizz "DEMANDED he be included in the deal or it was off." The burden of proof should be on the one who made the statement.

I ask for a link as proof of what milkshakeballa CLAIMS was said and a couple of you tell me to find it myself?

And funny how all the Laker fans in here are lining up like they all thought it was a fair trade since the day that is was made and have supposedly "stuck to their guns" on the deal since Day One. It reality, it's the same bandwagon fans jumpin on the "Gasol trade was a fair trade" bandwagon too.

Well I didn't tell you to go look it up. But all this has been argued ad nauseum. It's been shown many times that it was well known Pau was on the block, that the Grizz wanted Marc in the deal, and that since they couldnt get equal value for Pau that they were persuing a salary dump to use cap space to sign a later prospect. And no matter how many times you show it, how many people INVOLVED in the trade comment on it, the haters don't believe and just continue to spew utter nonsense.

I for one argued day one that the trade is not nearly as lopsided as eveyone was making out and that it couldnt truly be evaluated until you saw who they picked up with the cap space and picks. And anyone who knows basketball could see Marc had potential and was improving dramatically year to year.

Funny how when others like myself point all this out that the haters just keep coming back with claims that all the participants and people actually in the know are lying, that we are bandwagon fans, or that the league conspired to help the Lakers. They just cant grasp that some people actually know more and can evaluate talent better.

And look what has happened. It's two years later and everything I predicted about the trade not be so lopsided has come true. Aparently the Grizz knew what they were doing and you cannot argue that. The results are in the pudding.

[cobbler]

Not really. Its not so much a prediction than a Lie. Heisley knew all along he was going to move the grizz. So it can be a possibility that he's lying about Jerry.

Regardless, my comment is more towards Heisley :ihit than the gasol trade itself

I am curious as to how you know that he all along he was moving the Grizz and lied. You have proof of that or is that just another baseless accusation like the Jerry West one?

We all know the answer don't we?

:bang

[cnyc3]

I am curious as to how you know that he all along he was moving the Grizz and lied. You have proof of that or is that just another baseless accusation like the Jerry West one?

We all know the answer don't we?

:bang

After buying the team, Heisley held a presser stating that he promises to keep the Grizz in Vancouver.

The team was moved after a year and in an interview with Memphis media he claimed he made no such promise

[namlook]

After buying the team, Heisley held a presser stating that he promises to keep the Grizz in Vancouver.

The team was moved after a year and in an interview with Memphis media he claimed he made no such promise

You are not telling the entire story here.

"... I realize that about 20% of what gets quoted in the news media is accurate, 50% is somewhat accurate and about 30-40% is downright [worthless]. The reality is I never promised the people of Vancouver I wouldn’t move. The news media kept asking and I kept saying I have no plans to move. I have no intentions of moving unless it becomes obvious it won’t work out here and then they said how long is that going to be and I said I can’t give you a time. I don’t know.

I was paying $6 million a year to rent the arena. I didn't have any sky boxes. I didn't have any revenue from the concessions. I had no parking revenue. So I lost over $50 million in the first year.

So I offered to sell to local owners if they promised to stay in Vancouver. Several parties looked at the books. No one made an offer so this story about my moving after I promised not to move thing is just pure bull.

Nobody ever produced a clip or a statement that I said I was going to do that other than a reporter just put it down. A reporter just put it in the papers, and everybody believed it."

[cobbler]

You are not telling the entire story here.

"... I realize that about 20% of what gets quoted in the news media is accurate, 50% is somewhat accurate and about 30-40% is downright [worthless]. The reality is I never promised the people of Vancouver I wouldn’t move. The news media kept asking and I kept saying I have no plans to move. I have no intentions of moving unless it becomes obvious it won’t work out here and then they said how long is that going to be and I said I can’t give you a time. I don’t know.

I was paying $6 million a year to rent the arena. I didn't have any sky boxes. I didn't have any revenue from the concessions. I had no parking revenue. So I lost over $50 million in the first year.

So I offered to sell to local owners if they promised to stay in Vancouver. Several parties looked at the books. No one made an offer so this story about my moving after I promised not to move thing is just pure bull.

Nobody ever produced a clip or a statement that I said I was going to do that other than a reporter just put it down. A reporter just put it in the papers, and everybody believed it."

:toast

[cnyc3]

Yes this is exactly the interview I was referring to that he had with Memphis Media.





I was paying $6 million a year to rent the arena. I didn't have any sky boxes. I didn't have any revenue from the concessions. I had no parking revenue. So I lost over $50 million in the first year.


These numbers were available to him BEFORE he purchased the team. he knew exactly what he will lose money on. Now its the same excuse for leaving?

Bottom line, Heisley was all over the media here in Vancouver promising not to leave. In that interview he pretty much does a full 180


Its ok Laker fan, just because he lied here doesnt mean he's lying about Gasol trade :lol

[Quit Hatin']

ok lets say the cavs get big z back so essentially its a late first rounder for antawn.
thats the worst trade so far. memphis ended up with marc and 2 first rounders, t wolves ended up with al jeff, gomes, and a first rounder, and nets got a solid young player in lee.