Is Keith Bogans the worst rotation player in the NBA?..

[HarlemHeat37]

Seriously, is he?..I can't think of anybody worse off the top..

[vy65]

matt bonner?

[TD 21]

S. Graham?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133937

[50 cent]

It's laughable that the guy is even in the NBA and Pop starts him every fucking day.

[timvp]

He's the worst "defensive stopper" I've ever seen.

[SequSpur]

yeah dude...welcome to the club....

shit...i don't get credit for anything around here but yet most of you jump on my bandwagon.

[Chieflion]

No he is not. I am sure the Nets have worse players.

[RedsLakers24]

Derek Fisher

[timtonymanu]

Yes and also Bonner.

And they both start for the Spurs. Ridiculous.

[Man In Black]

If he ain't stopping anyone, then what's he good for? Also, it boggles me how he has a Kentucky flashback at the most inopportune times and throws up weak sauce at the rim. :depressed

[Chomag]

Don't know for sure, there are some bad players out there but he has to be at the bottom of the pile of worst players somewhere. I doubt he would even be getting minutes in NJ Nets let alone a d-league team. Yet he is a starter for the Spurs...

SO priceless...

[024]

hairston should be given a chance. even if pop somehow believes bogans is better than hairston, he should be thinking about developing young players now because spurs won't be winning anything this year.

[Brazil]

worst starter we can discuss worst rotation no

[ShoogarBear]

Where the hell is Ghost Writer when you need him?

[TD 21]

He's the worst "defensive stopper" I've ever seen.

I've got to question how closely the front office has followed the league in recent years. Bogans has NEVER BEEN A STOPPER! Jefferson was considered a plus defender years ago, but never a stopper, yet they had him pegged to fill that role coming into the season? These guys are flat out not paying attention.

[Doe]

Not sure but he must be gunning for worst starter on any team...

[it's me]

Lol defensive stopper..... his defense is overrated... people tend to think he's a good defender just because his offense is nonexistent.....

[8FOR!3]

At this point in his career Eduardo Najara is much worse and Dallas was having to start him before their trade.

[TimDunkem]

Bogans couldn't average 20+ points in the D-League.

[HarlemHeat37]

Stephen Graham is a good pick..he only gets around 10 MPG though, so LB uses him correctly..also, his minutes are going to get lower in the stretch run with the starters playing more..

Najera isn't a rotation player, he's only playing because Dampier is out..

The Nets have Terrence Williams that might be worse, but TWill has great athleticism, is a better defender and has upside..Hassell and Bobby Simmons don't play much anymore, so they're eliminated..

[vy65]

Trenton Hassell?

[ShoogarBear]

Actually Jefferson's rotations are much worse . . .

[spurtech09]

don't care bout bogans its bonner that make me want to vomit.....plz pop stop killing this team and add Ian to the starting line up...or atleast as a back up

[timtonymanu]

It's bad enough when Im rooting for Finley to start over Bogans. At least Finley can shoot. Bogans cant shoot or defend.

[Obstructed_View]

Meh, it's possible that he's got some competition on his own team, but he probably nudges ahead for the win.

[easy7]

Shit, even might mouse, Vaughn and Chevy Chase are better...

[tp2021]

Where the hell is Ghost Writer when you need him?

When the hell is Ghost Writer needed?

[ShoogarBear]

When the hell is Ghost Writer needed?

All those years of "Bruce Bowen is the worst starter in the league" threads, and now he has an opportunity to actually use them and be right?

[it's me]

......and GHill defense is also overrated .... just because dude has long arms it doesn't mean he's a good defender... I've seen him getting torched even more than TP....

[8FOR!3]

......and GHill defense is also overrated .... just because dude has long arms it doesn't mean he's a good defender... I've seen him getting torched even more than TP....

But shit TP was getting torched by an over the hill AI. Hill at least put in effort.

[Budkin]

yeah dude...welcome to the club....

shit...i don't get credit for anything around here but yet most of you jump on my bandwagon.

Sequ... come on man you know everyone loves the corn round here!

[Obstructed_View]

All those years of "Bruce Bowen is the worst starter in the league" threads, and now he has an opportunity to actually use them and be right?

Sad thing is that to GW, and to Popovich, Bowen and Bogans still look like the same player.

[objective]

It's bad enough when Im rooting for Finley to start over Bogans.

wow

that is bad

:lol

[mingus]

He's the worst "defensive stopper" I've ever seen.

"defensive stopper" = stops defense from happening. :(

[Mr. Body]

Remember near the end of the off-season when they signed this guy and we were wondering if he'd make the opening day roster? He was insurance for somebody maybe? No, turned out he was Pop's idea of a championship starter.

[HarlemHeat37]

The most annoying part is that we FINALLY saw an end to the "Finley problem", but now we have a fucking "Bogans problem"..

Apparently the Spurs rotation NEEDS to fill its quota of at least 1 player that has no athleticism, limited talent, old age and no upside remaining..

[objective]

The most annoying part is that we FINALLY saw an end to the "Finley problem", but now we have a fucking "Bogans problem"..

Apparently the Spurs rotation NEEDS to fill its quota of at least 1 player that has no athleticism, limited talent, old age and no upside remaining..

Well, look on the bright side . . .

Next season the Spurs will be capped out even without re-signing Manu or using the MLE on Splitter (if Holt even allows those things).

That means filling the rest of the roster, 3-6 spots to get the minimum # of players with minimum salary guys.

Guys like Bogans.

Lots of guys like Bogans.

We can dream and wish for minimum guys who could have upside, like Hairston. Or past 2nd rounders like Gist, De Colo or Sanikidze, though I'm sure De Colo would cost more. Those guys may or may not be able to play . . . we'll never know.

For there will be more Bogans.

BOGANS !

[TJastal]

Fabbs needs to update the Pop/Fin wedding pic w/ Bogans face in the bridal gown. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Remember near the end of the off-season when they signed this guy and we were wondering if he'd make the opening day roster? He was insurance for somebody maybe? No, turned out he was Pop's idea of a championship starter.

Yeah it's funny how that happens. We were all wondering in November what Pop thought Bogans was a stopgap for. Should have seen the crush way back then, I guess.

[SenorSpur]

I'll be honest, when watching him on other squads, I thought he was better than he's shown here. He's been bad. However for me, his terrible performances have been overshadowed by others on this team.

[leemajors]

No, he's not. He's not anywhere near starter or major minute material though. In spot minutes he could be somewhat effective, but he's being misused badly.

[toki9]

Is Hairston really that much worse than Bogans?

[trypldubl]

Is Hairston really that much worse than Bogans?

No his is just not 29 yrs. yet!

[Obstructed_View]

Is Hairston really that much worse than Bogans?

I guess we'll never find out.

[Obstructed_View]

This is fucking comedy gold. If you aren't a Spurs fan, that is:

"I want to have a defensive presence and set a tone defensively, similar to what we did with Bruce Bowen," Popovich said of putting Bogans back in the starting lineup for the two games since the All-Star break. "He fits that role pretty well for us."

I guess Pop never realized what Bowen actually does and thinks any 6'7" black guy scoring three and a half points a game will do.

[TJastal]

This is fucking comedy gold. If you aren't a Spurs fan, that is:

"I want to have a defensive presence and set a tone defensively, similar to what we did with Bruce Bowen," Popovich said of putting Bogans back in the starting lineup for the two games since the All-Star break. "He fits that role pretty well for us."

I guess Pop never realized what Bowen actually does and thinks any 6'7" black guy scoring three and a half points a game will do.

Bowen was 6'8 with extremely long arms and a svelte chiseled body. Bogans is a 6'5" trashcan with stubby little arms

[HarlemHeat37]

:rollin

[z0sa]

37 year old Bowen > Bogans

[Spurs Brazil]

Is Keith Bogans the worst rotation player in the NBA?

Tough one, Mason may be worst

[MannyIsGod]

Keith Bogans is inducing rage from me.

[Spurminator]

Thank God we don't have to deal with Bruce Bowen sucking it up out there...

[z0sa]

Pop deserves our rage ... just imagine if Hairston or even Bowen had played Bogans' minutes/role this season.

[AFBlue]

Keith Bogans is inducing rage from me.

I kept saying...where is RJ?

You know it's bad when I'm asking for RJ!

My gawd, the insistence on Bogans is rediculous.

[Spurs Brazil]

I kept saying...where is RJ?

You know it's bad when I'm asking for RJ!

My gawd, the insistence on Bogans is rediculous.

You know it's bad when I think Finley is a beter option than Bogans, Mason and RJ

[The Red Hood]

Udoka > Bogans ?

[Spursmania]

Bogans is a joke. Utter fail. :pctoss

[Doe]

Wow, looked like Mason got jealous of Bogans "worst player in the rotation" title and decided to take matters into his own hands tonight.

[Come_On_Now]

JJ Barea is the worst rotation player in the league. Fortunately for us, he isn't getting many minutes as of late.

[MannyIsGod]

Its obvious that Bogans stole the naked pictures of Pop that Finley had for many years.

[Blackjack]

:rollin

Xtranormal's pronunciation of Bogans made me laugh, but now it just seems appropriate . . .

Bo-gawns (as in gone)

As in: Good God, get gone, Bogawns.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bogans' next assignment: Kevin Durant..nice..

[Spurtacus]

I miss Bowen.

[RodNIc91]

Jajajajajajaj lmao....funniest thread in a long time. ( I agree with y'all)

[ElNono]

:pop: STFU... Bogans sets the defensive tone... He fouled out tonight!

[exstatic]

Seriously, is he?..I can't think of anybody worse off the top..


Roger Mason.

[fusionjazzman72]

I miss Bowen.

"I miss Darwin Cook"

[FeZZy]

sigz

[Manu_Ginobili]

Seriously, is he?..I can't think of anybody worse off the top..

NO, ask Finley, Pop's favorite guy...

[Obstructed_View]

Roger Mason.

Sad as it may seem, that's not actually the case.

[taps]

Bogans' next assignment: Kevin Durant..nice..


I miss Bowen.

Remember back in the d when our boy bowen would've taken a streak like kevin durants 25 pts for 9500 straight games as a personal challenge? And the thing is, you could've just about guaranteed he was gonna lock him down, or give him 25 point on 55 shots or something. kinda like he did last year b/w gm 1 & gm 2 when bowen openly mused how dirk might fair in the next game with a little bruce in his life, and he held him to 14 points on 21% shooting ---- that is an UNGODLY amount of FGA's. what a gem. no point in circlejerk reminiscing, he is not going to walk through the door just putting the thread in perspective


Udoka > Bogans ?

Yup. And Udoka sux. He SUX with a capital X. at least he could guard ron ron, thats one player. by my count that's one more player than bogans can lock down.

[blkroadrunners]

Seriously, is he?..I can't think of anybody worse off the top..

Antoine Wright's pretty bad too.

[hater]

Actually Jefferson's rotations are much worse . . .

we have a winner

[DBMethos]

Pop's playing Bogans so much to get the fans to pine for Finley again...I c wut u did thar...

[BatManu]

No he is not. I am sure the Nets have worse players.

We shoulda traded him to the nets for their ball boy... it beats ratliff for a 2nd round pick in 3012 or whatver that we'll never see

[KuntryDude]

I'm sure that Bogans knows that he sucks like no other! Pop is the problem. This guys played MORE minutes than former MVP TD. That's BS. Let me go to the "FIRE POP" thread...

[crc21209]

Bogans sucks...I sometimes wish he and Bonner would voluntarily tell Pop they suck themselves..:lol...or get just a little bit hurt to the point where they cant play anymore...therefore forcing Pop to play Mahinmi and Hairston...

[HarlemHeat37]

Another great game for the Bulldog today..

[FeZZy]

keith BOOGER bogans he sticks to you like mucus!

[ElNono]

I'm convinced. He's fucking dead weight... What's more, other teams are starting to take notice and leaving him open to double the good guys.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm convinced. He's fucking dead weight... What's more, other teams are starting to take notice and leaving him open to double the good guys.

Yeah there were times where the Suns would just leave him camped at the three point line and the Spurs weren't even looking to pass the ball to him for fear he might put it up.

[Spurs7794]

Whats really frustrating is that when he was being used situationally at the beginning of the season, he was alright. Then Pop decided to start him and he started to really suck. Then he benched him and I was pumped that it looked like Pop realized what we all realized...then he decides arbitrarily to restart him? And now, he just plays like 3 minutes at the beginning of each half and we spot the other team a couple points. He is worthless in the role he's in.

[ElNono]

Whats really frustrating is that when he was being used situationally at the beginning of the season, he was alright. Then Pop decided to start him and he started to really suck. Then he benched him and I was pumped that it looked like Pop realized what we all realized...then he decides arbitrarily to restart him? And now, he just plays like 3 minutes at the beginning of each half and we spot the other team a couple points. He is worthless in the role he's in.

Hey, I was all for playing him at the beginning of the season when he was shooting over 50% from three... no reason not to ride that gravy train... but now?

[TD 21]

I agree with Pop about having a defensive presence to start the game, but you can't force it. Not matter how badly he wants him to be, Bogans isn't a stopper. Pop thinks if you're an untalented player with limited physical tools but you work hard, that that automatically makes you a good defender.

Jefferson needs to be re-inserted into the starting lineup immediately. He's finally starting to come around and even if he reverts, he's still better than Bogans. This team doesn't have a stopper, nor the capabilities to be a top five defensive team. If Pop wanted/expected that, then he should have thought about that when he and the front office were attempting to re-load this team. What annoys me most is how hypocritical he is. Preaching defense, then playing Blair-Jefferson as his backup big duo. This after giving away Ratliff and while refusing to play Mahinmi.

[ElNono]

I agree with Pop about having a defensive presence to start the game, but you can't force it.

I don't disagree with Pop on this either. However, I disagree that Bogans brings that defensive presence on the perimeter.

[SenorSpur]

I agree with Pop about having a defensive presence to start the game, but you can't force it. Not matter how badly he wants him to be, Bogans isn't a stopper. Pop thinks if you're an untalented player with limited physical tools but you work hard, that that automatically makes you a good defender..
Pop is a hypocrite and here's why. He waxes poetic about "having a defensive presence" and "playing the type of defense the Spurs are accustomed to", yet this is the same coach that elected to start Finley at SF for the better part of last season. He even resorted to assigning Finley to the opposition's best perimeter player. As if Finley had any of the requisite defensive skills needed to even be an average defender. Meanwhile, all of this came at the expense of Bowen, whom he benched last season.

This season he brings in RJ, with the expectation that he could resort back to being an adequate defender, when he's not demonstrated those skills previously.


[Jefferson needs to be re-inserted into the starting lineup immediately. He's finally starting to come around and even if he reverts, he's still better than Bogans. This team doesn't have a stopper, nor the capabilities to be a top five defensive team. If Pop wanted/expected that, then he should have thought about that when he and the front office were attempting to re-load this team. What annoys me most is how hypocritical he is. Preaching defense, then playing Blair-Jefferson as his backup big duo. This after giving away Ratliff and while refusing to play Mahinmi.

Couldn't agree more. This is the confusing thing about Pop. He seemingly trusts the wrong players. I know that Bogans isn't cutting it and re-inserting RJ back into the starting lineup is probably a good idea.

Bogans has certainly been ineffective, but I really didn't expect him to walk in and become a starter or even a Bowenesque stopper. I think that was Pop's dream. I'd still rather see Bogans on the court any day over Finley.

There's no mistaking the fact that this year's Spurs team is a shitty defensive team. Pop seems to be the one who is surprised about this. As TD21 stated, if the FO wanted to field a better defensive team, they should've invested in better defensive players. You are what you are. There shouldn't be any surprises there.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't disagree with Pop on this either. However, I disagree that Bogans brings that defensive presence on the perimeter.

Bogans isn't a presence of any sort in the game, other than he's literally present on the floor in the games. He's a pretty big upgrade from 5 on 4 but that's about as positive as it gets.

[ohmwrecker]

Keith Bogans has never been anything more than an occasionally decent situational substitute on mediocre squads for his entire career. Yet, he has been elevated to starting status on, what should be, a championship caliber team. Popovich must have convinced himself that he could turn him into the defensive wing that would fit so cozily into his system. To his credit, he did the same thing with Bruce Bowen.
Pop gave Bruce the opportunity to succeed when he was a free agent after filling a similar role as Bogans on the Heat. However, Bowen seized that opportunity and far exceeded any and all expectations by making the most of a limited skill set and improving his weaknesses enough to solidify his position as an intregal part of a championship team.
Bowen had the attitude, desire and determination to be a winner. Bogans is a loser. He doesn't get it. He does not possess the psychological tools to be a winner.
Popovich is either not convinced that Bogans can't develop this mindset or he is giving himself far too much credit for what Bowen became in his system.
Pop is either an idiot, delusional or has just become an asshole. I am convinced he is the latter. Blame it on hubris or wine brain rot, but he has made some huge mistakes the past two seasons and should be held accountable.

[G-Dawgg]

I have a scary feeling that he's gonna be a Spur for a long time though...

[SenorSpur]

Keith Bogans has never been anything more than an occasionally decent situational substitute on mediocre squads for his entire career.
True statement. However when used correctly, he has shown to be good contributor. Can't overexpose him though.

Popovich must have convinced himself that he could turn him into the defensive wing that would fit so cozily into his system.
Clearly, that's Pop's ego at work. He thought he could turn Finley and RJ into above average or decent defenders.

Bogans is a loser. He doesn't get it. He does not possess the psychological tools to be a winner.
Strong stuff. If Pop wants Bogans to be successful, he should pair Bogans up with Bowen this summer and let the master teach the student.

[Tike Mailer]

Bogans sucks brah

[ohmwrecker]

True statement. However when used correctly, he has shown to be good contributor. Can't overexpose him though.
Sure. I would have no problem with Bogans if he were used sparingly. For example, to defend bigger, more physical point guards who take advantage of Tony & George on the block (Bogans has trouble staying in front of quicker guards). However, the Spurs roster is not talented enough to be afforded that luxury.


Clearly, that's Pop's ego at work. He thought he could turn Finley and RJ into above average or decent defenders.
Ego is definitely involved and that is fine, but it really only works when you're winning. RJ used to be a pretty decent defender in Jersey, but he picked up some bad habits in Milwaukee. Finley has also been a good defender, but he is just done. I have more faith in RJ at this point because he has more ability than Bogans.

Strong stuff. If Pop wants Bogans to be successful, he should pair Bogans up with Bowen this summer and let the master teach the student.
I would just rather have Bogans be gone next year, but if he is resigned that wouldn't be a bad idea. However, given the previously mentioned Pop ego, I don't see him asking Bowen for help.

[HarlemHeat37]

While it's a good idea, Bogans simply doesn't have the physical tools to be a good defender right now and in the remaining years of his career..he isn't quick, he isn't athletic, he isn't a great basketball mind like a Battier type, he doesn't have the height or length..he doesn't really have anything to make him a good defender..

[TD 21]

Pop is a hypocrite and here's why. He waxes poetic about "having a defensive presence" and "playing the type of defense the Spurs are accustomed to", yet this is the same coach that elected to start Finley at SF for the better part of last season. He even resorted to assigning Finley to the opposition's best perimeter player. As if Finley had any of the requisite defensive skills needed to even be an average defender. Meanwhile, all of this came at the expense of Bowen, whom he benched last season.

This season he brings in RJ, with the expectation that he could resort back to being an adequate defender, when he's not demonstrated those skills previously.



Couldn't agree more. This is the confusing thing about Pop. He seemingly trusts the wrong players. I know that Bogans isn't cutting it and re-inserting RJ back into the starting lineup is probably a good idea.

Bogans has certainly been ineffective, but I really didn't expect him to walk in and become a starter or even a Bowenesque stopper. I think that was Pop's dream. I'd still rather see Bogans on the court any day over Finley.

There's no mistaking the fact that this year's Spurs team is a shitty defensive team. Pop seems to be the one who is surprised about this. As TD21 stated, if the FO wanted to field a better defensive team, they should've invested in better defensive players. You are what you are. There shouldn't be any surprises there.


Couldn't agree more. Although in fairness, I understand why he started Finley at SF all of last season; the team desperately needed offense and Finley was still one of the better offensive players on the team. That's more a commentary of the team than Finley, though. There was no excuse for Bowen not to be in the rotation last season. It's not as if Udoka was some young player who had a future with the Spurs and even last season, Bowen was still more effective than him. I laughed at the part I put in bold because it's the type of remark I'd make.

I've went on and on about the Spurs expectations of Jefferson. It's clear to me they were either arrogant and thought, "we're the Spurs, if we can get less talented players to play championship caliber ball, then surely we can get him to", or they were just lazy, thought he was still the '06 Jefferson and didn't do their due diligence, or it was a panic move, born out of desperation by a fading team that knew they had to do something significant to have a shot at another championship and felt this was as close as they could come to that.

Pop, like many coaches of his stature, is stubborn. As if he thinks he's teaching Jefferson a lesson or something. The guy can't play much better than he has the past few games and his defense is no worse than Bogans', so there's no reason not to start him.

I'm not saying they should ignore defense, but Pop needs to stop throwing out pseudo "defensive lineups" (aka starting Bogans) and just start Jefferson, use Blair more, limit Bogans' minutes to spot duty, cut out the small ball nonsense when it's uncalled for and realize that this team, if they're to win with any type of regularity, will have to do it by outscoring their opponents. It may not be what he wants, but it is what the Spurs are at this point.

[DJ Mbenga]

son i see fisher every day. its clearly him

[J_Paco]

The saddest part about Bogans is the fact that he lost his spot in the rotation while in Orlando to Courtney Lee and Mikael Pietrus, gets traded to Milwaukee and can't even find playing time on a sub-.500 team. Then, he's a last minute pick-up on a "championship caliber" team with what many thought was a set wing rotation of Ginobili, Jefferson, Mason, Finley and hopefully Hairston. Yet, he comes here and shows very little ability on either end of the court, other than an occasional three-pointer or defensive play, and finds himself inserted into the starting line-up at SF (even though he's barely 6'5'' tall). Worst of all he's eating away at minutes that could go to a player with far more upside and a chance to become a Raja Bell-esque perimeter defender in Hairston.

He's definitely the worst 6'5'' starting SF in NBA history......

[superbigtime]

Give me Ime Udoka over Bogans any day.

[in2deep]

u serious???

Bogans > Udoka. come on

at least Bogans brings a little toughness. Udoka was a softy

[LOL@MavsFan]

Seriously, is he?..I can't think of anybody worse off the top..

Mike Brickley is a pretty close 2nd, but yeah he is terrible. :bang

Bench Blowgans and put in Hairston.

[LOL@MavsFan]

u serious???

Bogans > Udoka. come on

at least Bogans brings a little toughness. Udoka was a softy

Tell you the truth I'd rather had Usucka....at least he makes an open 3 once in awhile and doesn't constantly foul. Usucka wasn't soft either BTW.

[TJastal]

Bogans sucks brah

Who is this beacon of enlightenment that keeps gracing each thread with his amazingly keen insights?

[in2deep]

oh come on. Udoka was soft. he would get his shit blocked half the time. And was never a tough paint defender.

[TJastal]

Tell you the truth I'd rather had Usucka....at least he makes an open 3 once in awhile and doesn't constantly foul. Usucka wasn't soft either BTW.

I'd take Udoka over Bogans easy. And Hairston over both. Poor Malik has had to wait for POop's lover (Fins) in 2008 and now POop's first affair (Bogs) in 2009. That alone should qualify him for potential jersey retirement.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

5 pages of bashing and yet hes still starting

[TJastal]

5 pages of bashing and yet hes still starting

Maybe if we drag it out to 10 the gods will rain lightning down on his head... hell they are probably getting sick of watching him too

[Spursfanfromafar]

Some objective measures from Hollinger-vill (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=VORPe&order=false&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics%3fsort%3dVORPe%26order%3dfalse)e - (In terms of Wins shares)

Top 5 worst NBA rotation players -

1. DeShawn Stevenson
2. Sasha Pavlovic
3. Rafer Alston
4. Brian Scalabrine, Derek Fisher, Trenton Hassell, Keith Bogans
5. Fabricio Oberto, James Posey, Terrence Williams

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Seriously, is he?..I can't think of anybody worse off the top..

Malik Hairston and Ian Mahinmi. Serious do you even watch basketball. Why do you think they dont play? Malik is only lost part of the time but Ian is terrible.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

pavlovic>^inf bogans

[TJastal]

Malik Hairston and Ian Mahinmi. Serious do you even watch basketball. Why do you think they dont play? Malik is only lost part of the time but Ian is terrible.

I know they looked so lost the other night leading the spurs back from a 20+ point defecit against the rockettes. What the hell was Pop thinking playing these guys when he has respected veterans like Bogawns and Boner?

[SenorSpur]

Malik Hairston and Ian Mahinmi. Serious do you even watch basketball. Why do you think they dont play? Malik is only lost part of the time but Ian is terrible.

Ian terrible? What the hell are you watching? Can you not see that the kid has a set of skills (rebounding, post defense, shotblocking) that are missing from this team? No one thinks this guy is a savior, but if you can't see that he's a useful player, it is you that needs to watch more closely.

In the cases of both Malik and Ian, just because the coach is too stubborn to give them minutes and refuses to move them up the roster heirarchy doesn't mean they're trash or that they don't deserve minutes. Just as it doesn't mean that the guys in front of them (Bonner, Bogans, Finley) deserve to be on the court.

Both Ian and Malik are instant energy and effort upgrades, on both ends, over the guys in front of them.

[ohmwrecker]

Kind of surprised Oberto made that list. He was slow, but he didn't seem THAT bad when he played for the Spurs.

[yavozerb]

bruce bowen at one time was considered the worst and now people are crying for him to come back..

[MannyIsGod]

bruce bowen at one time was considered the worst and now people are crying for him to come back..

:lol He was never considered "the worst" by any stretch of the imagination. The impact Bowen put on the game was well felt and obvious.

Bowen was a better offensive player than Bogans and we should never even mention them in the same sentence when discussing their defense. Bowen was in an entirely different league than Bogans.

[yavozerb]

:lol He was never considered "the worst" by any stretch of the imagination. The impact Bowen put on the game was well felt and obvious.

Bowen was a better offensive player than Bogans and we should never even mention them in the same sentence when discussing their defense. Bowen was in an entirely different league than Bogans.

Really...You have been a member here long enough to know that alot of other members hated bowen in the starting lineup due to his lower than average offensive abilities. To say this was never mentioned is crazy. I dont think I compared the two by simply posting his name in this thread..

[Obstructed_View]

Really...You have been a member here long enough to know that alot of other members hated bowen in the starting lineup due to his lower than average offensive abilities. To say this was never mentioned is crazy. I dont think I compared the two by simply posting his name in this thread..

And you'd think those people would learn their lesson now that there's a guy who's even worse from the offensive side and doesn't play defense.

[superbigtime]

u serious???

Bogans > Udoka. come on

at least Bogans brings a little toughness. Udoka was a softy

Yep serious. Udoka is not undersized at the position and was better than Bogans, though he wasn't very good either. I don't think either one is a softie. But Bogans is damn near useless. He tries but just isn't very talented or capable. I hope Hairston will start to play more and take his minutes.

[angelbelow]

Yep serious. Udoka is not undersized at the position and was better than Bogans, though he wasn't very good either. I don't think either one is a softie. But Bogans is damn near useless. He tries but just isn't very talented or capable. I hope Hairston will start to play more and take his minutes.

Bogans is more of a bulldog. I would rather have Bogans over Udoka for sure.

[AFBlue]

Hubie said it in the game and I think it's true...in order for a guy like Bogans to stay in his starting role he's going to have to hit shots.

Hairston already passed Finley on the depth chart with his release. I don't think it's entirely impossible for Hairston to make a late run at surpassing Bogans.

[Buddy Holly]

Malik Hairston and Ian Mahinmi. Serious do you even watch basketball. Why do you think they dont play? Malik is only lost part of the time but Ian is terrible.


http://tokig.net/dumbass.gif

[TD 21]

Are you kidding? Mahinmi play against the equally undersized Hornets? Not happening. If McDyess plays, then expect a three big rotation/small ball. If McDyess doesn't play, then expect Bonner to take his spot in a three big rotation/small ball. Either way, with McDyess having a sore knee and Pop managing Duncan's minutes, Blair should clear 20 minutes tonight, which is a rarity. I also expect Mason to play more minutes and Hairston may make a couple of brief appearances for specific defensive stands, but Mahinmi? I'd be shocked. The Spurs play small when there's no reason to and it makes no sense, so there's virtually no chance of them not playing small when they're playing a small team.

[TIMMYD!]

I bet after Mahinmi signs with a team next year, he will make the regular rotation and will average around 7 and 4 with a block. He could do it with us but Pop won't allow it. :bang

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Yep serious. Udoka is not undersized at the position and was better than Bogans, though he wasn't very good either. I don't think either one is a softie. But Bogans is damn near useless. He tries but just isn't very talented or capable. I hope Hairston will start to play more and take his minutes.

I'd be happy if he hustled. He doesn't.

[Dro210]

I know +/- doesn't tell the whole story, and sometimes tells a very misleading one.... but sometimes it tells a big part of the real story.

At the half:
Bogans -9.... Only other Spur that's negative is Parker at -4. In a game that we lead by 11.

It's obvious before you ever go look at the stats that both guys have been hindering the team often this year.

[HarlemHeat37]

+/- should only be used in large sample sizes..

Tony is a +3 net +/- this season, so he's contributing..

Bogans has the worst +/- on the team, which is even sadder when you consider how many minutes he's played with Timmy, TP and RJ..

[ace3g]

Bogans going for another 0 pt effort as a starter, tell me haters, you think Hairston could do any worse?

[Dro210]

Yea, I'm just sayin... nearly every game is like this for Bogans.


Parker has often been on the - side a lot more than he or anybody else would like him to have been this year. He's a net + because he's still Tony and has still had his good games. For him, it's all about the injuries and how he's feeling that day.

[ace3g]

well I didn't want him to get injured to get out of the game, but he just dislocated a finger/thumb

[Dro210]

Kobe plays with a dislocated finger, won't stop Bulldog Bogans

[ace3g]

damn Pop put him back in the game, ofcourse the play after he checks in results in a Hornets basket after they stole the ball from the Spurs

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I'm hoping the Spurs have a practice in the next couple of days so his teammates can swat at his hand.

[Biernutz]

I agree that the more time Bogans sits on the bench the better. As a defense stopper he is a failure. Have you seen him take any star out of their game. How can he be a big defense stopper if he never gets close to fouling out. Bogans is a pussy. Bruce would always use up his fouls by the end of the game. Bogans gets a lot of open shots because other teams just don't take him as a threat to score. He is always open. Keep the ball out of his hands and keep in the shooters hands.

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I agree that the more time Bogans sits on the bench the better. As a defense stopper he is a failure. Have you seen him take any star out of their game. How can he be a big defense stopper if he never gets close to fouling out. Bogans is a pussy. Bruce would always use up his fouls by the end of the game. Bogans gets a lot of open shots because other teams just don't take him as a threat to score. He is always open. Keep the ball out of his hands and keep in the shooters hands.

If I knew how to manipulate stats I'd figure out how far over their average the guy Bogans is covering scores when they play the Spurs. Seems like more than one guy whose name I don't know goes off on the ol' bulldog.

[scottspurs]

Watch a Nets game and you'll appreciate Bogans. At least he goes hard.

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Watch a Nets game and you'll appreciate Bogans. At least he goes hard.

Um, I'm not sure there's anyone on the Nets I wouldn't take over Bogans. I think they've had probably fifteen guys on their roster at one time or another who scores more than Bogans does, and at least half of them probably have fewer minutes and definitely have fewer starts. The only way I'd appreciate Bogans is if the Spurs had to play 5 on 4.

[scottspurs]

Um, I'm not sure there's anyone on the Nets I wouldn't take over Bogans. I think they've had probably fifteen guys on their roster at one time or another who scores more than Bogans does, and at least half of them probably have fewer minutes and definitely have fewer starts. The only way I'd appreciate Bogans is if the Spurs had to play 5 on 4.

I was just saying from a hustle stand point the Nets are pathetic. I watched one of their games and it was sad. There would be turnover and all of the players would stay on the other side of the court and watch somebody dunk it. Keith Bogans at the very least hustles.

[HarlemHeat37]

He does hustle..I don't mind HOW Bogans plays basketball..I like his hustle and he's tough..he just doesn't have anything to offer from a physical tools/skills standpoint, which is why other teams didn't want him on their rosters..

[Obstructed_View]

I was just saying from a hustle stand point the Nets are pathetic. I watched one of their games and it was sad. There would be turnover and all of the players would stay on the other side of the court and watch somebody dunk it. Keith Bogans at the very least hustles.

I'd rather teach a basketball player how to hustle than teach a guy who hustles how to play basketball.