Some stats from the Suns/Hawks game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Drove up to Phoenix and was surprised with tickets for tonight. GREAT game. I didn't know I had so many fellow Nash haters.

So onto the stats:

Dragic +15
Nash -6

Nash: 6 points, 3-10 shooting, 3 rebounds, 6 assists 6 turnovers (MVP!!!)

Alvan Gentry decides to leave the bench in till 3 minutes left in the game and they get a lead and push it to 11. Nash comes back in, Crawford immediately proceeds to sink a 2 and a 3 with Nash guarding him to cut it to 6. Fortunately after Nash missed a 3 on the following possession, Amare grabbed the offensive rebound and got fouled.

Lookout NBA, Gentry is realizing what it takes for this team to win.

lol Nash

[MavDynasty]

lol no d steve

[Xylus]

Nash has been a flat-out embarrassment in these last few games. Once old age takes away his awesome shooting and decisive handles, he's going to be completely useless.

[cobbler]

But was he having fun? That is all that matters!

[dirk4mvp]

Once old age takes away his awesome shooting and decisive handles, he's going to be completely useless.

Isn't that a few things old players usually don't lose?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But was he having fun? That is all that matters!


Him watching Dragic do everything right was like Ladanian Tomlinson watching Darren Sproles tear the Colts a new asshole a year ago. He tried to be happy on the sidelines but you could tell he was getting emo. It's not fun watching your backup outplay you.

[cobbler]

Him watching Dragic do everything right was like Ladanian Tomlinson watching Darren Sproles tear the Colts a new asshole a year ago. He tried to be happy on the sidelines but you could tell he was getting emo. It's not fun watching your backup outplay you.

It's always best to go out on top.... no doubt.

[Xylus]

Once Dragic learns how to dominate offensively (and he will), he's going to be a much more complete player than Steve Nash. White Magic is a killer defensive player, and one of the main reasons why the Suns drafted him. Athletic as hell, great shooter, good passer, sick defender. All he lacks is the transcendent confidence that Nash has.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Isn't that a few things old players usually don't lose?


Being able to make open shots is something old players don't lose, being able to make ridiculous fadeaways over taller defenders is. Small but decent chance it's all downhill from here for Nash, he played well pre all star break but had to work harder than ever.

[Xylus]

Nash usually makes 2-3 circus shots per game. He's going to lose that ability soon.

[dirk4mvp]

Idk, imo Nash is one of the best shooters to ever touch a basketball. He'll probably be fine in that regard.

[sribb43]

Seems like Barea and Nash have similar issues on D

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Idk, imo Nash is one of the best shooters to ever touch a basketball. He'll probably be fine in that regard.


Terrible shooting stretches for him aren't normal, I can't remember a shooting stretch for him anywhere near as bad as the one he's in right now.

It's not just shooting, this year, he's been way better than expected, but shit that used to be easy for him isn't anymore. He's relying on circus shots more than ever.

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

Don't disrespect a back to back MVP like that! :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Don't disrespect a back to back MVP like that! :lol


Thank you for mentioning that, now if some stupid Nash lover decides to not front run and show up to this thread to defend their hero when he's down, they'll look stupid using the, "But he won back to back MVP's from 2005-2006!!!!!!" argument.

[Xylus]

Suns: 45.1% FG
Hawks: 39.5% FG

Suns: 50 rebs
Hawks: 36 rebs

Probably the best defense this team's played in years.

[Fun n Gun]

Suns: 45.1% FG
Hawks: 39.5% FG

Suns: 50 rebs
Hawks: 36 rebs

Probably the best defense this team's played in years.
This team had better shape up. 88 points is an absolute travishamockery of an effort......who does this Goran think he is? No fun for anyone.

[milkshakeballa]

mind = blown

didn't know nash would decline so fast

[pauls931]

After a win, LOL. Be happy that dragic is coming through this season and may be able to take over in a couple years. Nash has been playing horrible the last couple of games, but I think a decline would be more gradual, this is pretty abrupt and is more of a slump. Trust me in playoffs, you'll want the ball in nash's hands. My only beef with dragic right now is low assist numbers.

Also look at the bench outperforming the starters, what a horrible problem to have!

What worries me more than nash is Richardson. He has the talent and ability, but they're not utilizing him. He should've been involved in a trade with hill and barbosa or something. He's being wasted right now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Trust me in playoffs, you'll want the ball in nash's hands.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao

[Trainwreck2100]

Drove up to Phoenix and was surprised with tickets for tonight. .

did you get laid after the game?

[RonMexico]

Nash = slump, not decline. (p.s. Nic Wise)

Dragic = growing up and succeeding.

Amare = 2 offensive rebounds in final 3 min?

Lopez = no longer worthless, except now he thinks he's a ball handler.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Damn, life sucks for Nashfan these days. You guys are in denial about the fact Nash has become nothing but a useless fuckdoll for the other team's PG to abuse.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

My only beef with dragic right now is low assist numbers.


Is that not fun or something? Point guards who rack up assists never succeed in the playoffs.

[Jeremy]

Is that not fun or something? Point guards who rack up assists never succeed in the playoffs.

Tell that to Magic Johnson.

Also, the all-time assists leader, John Stockton took two teams to the Finals.

[Jeremy]

Nash is not declining due to old age. He is having problems with his spine again, ever since that abdominal injury made it flare up. This happens at least once every year, where his spinal problem flares up and he can't shoot worth a lick.

I don't know where everyone's been, or why no one's aware of this.

Imagine what his career shooting percentages would be like if he didn't have a broken spine. He's close to the best FT% in NBA history, anyway.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Tell that to Magic Johnson.

Also, the all-time assists leader, John Stockton took two teams to the Finals.


Since 1990, the modern era of basketball, no PG like Nash or Stockton has WON the finals. If making the finals and losing was the objective, then Stockton was a stud!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash is not declining due to old age. He is having problems with his spine again, ever since that abdominal injury made it flare up. This happens at least once every year, where his spinal problem flares up and he can't shoot worth a lick.

I don't know where everyone's been, or why no one's aware of this.

Imagine what his career shooting percentages would be like if he didn't have a broken spine. He's close to the best FT% in NBA history, anyway.


Here's the translation for this:

:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry, my pussy hurts watching the Suns succeed without Nash.

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

Nash is nothing like Stockton.

Stockton played D, was tough, set dirty screens..basically not a raging vagina like Nash.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash is nothing like Stockton.

Stockton played D, was tough, set dirty screens..basically not a raging vagina like Nash.


Hey, it's not a vagina problem, just a back problem :lmao.

It's pretty funny that AZC comes out with an injury excuse every single time Nash plays horribly, as if a "healthy" Nash is incapable of playing poorly.

[pauls931]

Is that not fun or something? Point guards who rack up assists never succeed in the playoffs.

Maybe Nash will have a season ending injury and then we'll see if Dragic can get them to the playoffs...:lol You'll just have to live with the fact that Nash is the best guard on the team and probably second best player at worst behind Amare.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Maybe Nash will have a season ending injury and then we'll see if Dragic can get them to the playoffs...:lol You'll just have to live with the fact that Nash is the best guard on the team and probably second best player at worst behind Amare.


If making the playoffs and losing in the 1st round was something that mattered then this comment would be relevant. You'll just have to live with the fact your favorite player is going to be remembered as a loser who was getting out performed by his backup.


PS - Are you still under some false impression that Nash took them to the playoffs last year?

[san antonio spurs]

Why the hate for Nash? He's in a slump... I agree with the poster who said that in the playoffs you'd want the ball in Nash's hands. He's an assassin in the clutch. It's not news that he's a defensive liability but he'll be the one giving you chances to advance.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Why the hate for Nash? He's in a slump... I agree with the poster who said that in the playoffs you'd want the ball in Nash's hands. He's an assassin in the clutch. It's not news that he's a defensive liability but he'll be the one giving you chances to advance.


Wow, Spurfan telling someone how deadly Nash is in the playoffs. That's a hoot.

And he'll give you the chance to advance to the conference finals, that's it. If you wanna go any further, better get a PG with defense.

[himat]

Yeah a lot of teams don't win with great PG's. Usually teams will have a great wing man or post player to lead them (or a combination of the two).

If you look at all the recent NBA champions the PG was not the best player on the team (Please don't say Pistons of 04's best player was a PG because that is not true it was a team effort.)

2009- Lakers (Kobe/Gasol)

Derek Fisher LAST YEAR (this year he sucks) was a solid defender, knock down shooter, and he got the ball to his teammates in the right places.

2008-Boston (Pierce/Garnett/Ray Allen)

Rajon Rondo was not the best on that team, but he slashed into the paint and either scored, or found teammates.

2007-San Antonio (Duncan/Ginobili/Parker)

Tony Parker is good but IMO he is the 3rd best player on the Spurs.

2006-Miami (D Wade/Shaq)

Who was the PG for that team? J Will and Payton? Proves my point.

2005-San Antonio (Read 2007)

2004-Detroit (Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, Ben)

Chauncey may have one Finals MVP but we just had a solid team. We did not have a superstar PG by any means.

2003-San Antonio (Read 2007)

2000-2002-3 Peat Lakers (Kobe/Shaq)

Yeah PG matters a lot on a championship team, but usually he isn't the best player on the court for the champs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah a lot of teams don't win with great PG's. Usually teams will have a great wing man or post player to lead them (or a combination of the two).

If you look at all the recent NBA champions the PG was not the best player on the team (Please don't say Pistons of 04's best player was a PG because that is not true it was a team effort.)

2009- Lakers (Kobe/Gasol)

Derek Fisher LAST YEAR (this year he sucks) was a solid defender, knock down shooter, and he got the ball to his teammates in the right places.

2008-Boston (Pierce/Garnett/Ray Allen)

Rajon Rondo was not the best on that team, but he slashed into the paint and either scored, or found teammates.

2007-San Antonio (Duncan/Ginobili/Parker)

Tony Parker is good but IMO he is the 3rd best player on the Spurs.

2006-Miami (D Wade/Shaq)

Who was the PG for that team? J Will and Payton? Proves my point.

2005-San Antonio (Read 2007)

2004-Detroit (Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, Ben)

Chauncey may have one Finals MVP but we just had a solid team. We did not have a superstar PG by any means.

2003-San Antonio (Read 2007)

2000-2002-3 Peat Lakers (Kobe/Shaq)

Yeah PG matters a lot on a championship team, but usually he isn't the best player on the court for the champs.

Go back even further.

1999 - Avery Johnson
1996-1998 - Ron Harper
1994-1995 - Kenny Smith/Sam Cassell
1991-1993 - John Paxson/B.J. Armstrong

Having a PG who dominates the ball and averages 9+ assists per game is in fact DETRIMENTAL to a team winning a championship. Offenses run through the PG who pounds the ball too much always fail in the 4th quarter.

[san antonio spurs]

Wow, Spurfan telling someone how deadly Nash is in the playoffs. That's a hoot.

And he'll give you the chance to advance to the conference finals, that's it. If you wanna go any further, better get a PG with defense.

Well, the way teams are now stacked in the WEST I doubt he even makes it in WCF, but that won't solely be based on him, it's Kerr's fault.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Well, the way teams are now stacked in the WEST I doubt he even makes it in WCF, but that won't solely be based on him, it's Kerr's fault.


I never said he would. He's never made the finals and never will because of how he plays.

[Jeremy]

Here's the translation for this:

:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry, my pussy hurts watching the Suns succeed without Nash.

Umm, I am not a Nash fan. I was just stating facts. I'm the one who's been hyping Dragic since the night he was drafted, as you can see in this thread: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99995 The Spurs fans were all laughing at me... :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Umm, I am not a Nash fan. I was just stating facts. I'm the one who's been hyping Dragic since the night he was drafted, as you can see in this thread: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99995 The Spurs fans were all laughing at me... :lol


+1


These alleged "back injuries" EVERY SINGLE TIME nash has a bad shooting stretch are annoying. Idk why AZCentral is incapable of just honestly reporting Nash sucked last night.

[san antonio spurs]

I never said he would. He's never made the finals and never will because of how he plays.

Can you rank for us who you think fucks up PHX. Why the suns won't win squat.
Sarver, Kerr, Nash, Amare, Arizona...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Can you rank for us who you think fucks up PHX. Why the suns won't win squat.
Sarver, Kerr, Nash, Amare, Arizona...


This year, they aren't winning cause they suck.


5 years from now, when they still suck and are still rebuilding when they could be good, it'll be because of Nash.

[pauls931]

Can you rank for us who you think fucks up PHX. Why the suns won't win squat.
Sarver, Kerr, Nash, Amare, Arizona...

I blame Richard Dumas.

[san antonio spurs]

This year, they aren't winning cause they suck.


5 years from now, when they still suck and are still rebuilding when they could be good, it'll be because of Nash.
Can you rank the reasons of why they suck?
Sarver, Kerr, Nash, Amaré, Arizona...?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Can you rank the reasons of why they suck?
Sarver, Kerr, Nash, Amaré, Arizona...?


Sarver
D'antoni
Kerr
Bryan Colangelo

In that order. You can flip Colangelo and Kerr around, Sarver and D'antoni are the prime culprits.

[san antonio spurs]

Sarver
D'antoni
Kerr
Bryan Colangelo

Thanks, now you can live that little canadian alone:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Thanks, now you can live that little canadian alone:lol


It's nowhere near that simple. There's nothing that can be done about the fact they suck now, how good they are 3-5 years down the road should be the bigger concern. Continuously playing "Nashketball" and steadily becoming a worse and worse team while never rebuilding because the fans love Stevie Wonder so much isn't gonna do shit.

[san antonio spurs]

It's nowhere near that simple. There's nothing that can be done about the fact they suck now, how good they are 3-5 years down the road should be the bigger concern. Continuously playing "Nashketball" and steadily becoming a worse and worse team while never rebuilding because the fans love Stevie Wonder so much isn't gonna do shit.
When is Nash's contract up? And what do you think Kerr will do to rebuild when Amaré leaves this summer?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

When is Nash's contract up? And what do you think Kerr will do to rebuild when Amaré leaves this summer?


They gave Nash a contract extension last summer, first time in league history a team that missed the playoffs gives a 35+ year old player a contract extension the following off season. Just goes to show how backwards everyone thinks because of Nash.

[san antonio spurs]

They gave Nash a contract extension last summer, first time in league history a team that missed the playoffs gives a 35+ year old player a contract extension the following off season. Just goes to show how backwards everyone thinks because of Nash.
Was he extended through 2012? I'm lazy to look up when his contract is up

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Was he extended through 2012? I'm lazy to look up when his contract is up


Yeah 2 years 22 million so through 2012.

[san antonio spurs]

I think who they bring up this summer to replace Amaré will determine Nash's faith. I think he might agree to a buyout if he sees the suns in rebuilding mode and go to a contender.

[DPG21920]

Goran "Magic" Dragic

[mojorizen7]

Can you rank for us who you think fucks up PHX. Why the suns won't win squat.
Sarver, Kerr, Nash, Amare, Arizona...
Here are the reasons,the names shall be left out.
1) SSOL,small ball,....however you want to put it.....THE SYSTEM.
2) Choir boy mentality in terms of FA and personel.
3) Putting a premium on offense over defense.

[pauls931]

Here are the reasons,the names shall be left out.
1) SSOL,small ball,....however you want to put it.....THE SYSTEM.
2) Choir boy mentality in terms of FA and personel.
3) Putting a premium on offense over defense.

Problem is #3 has been an issue for decades now, it's part of the team's identity.

[LnGrrrR]

Nash=ticket sales. Dragic not so much.

[pauls931]

Nash=ticket sales. Dragic not so much.

Exactly why Sarver signed him. Probably the most cost effective way to keep seats filled. However, while everyone is high on Dragic, he's still a couple years from being able to run a team himself. Also his ability to find team mates has me a bit concerned for a PG. I'm hoping for 3 or 4 assists in the box score for him, but most of the time I see 1 or none. Most plays he looks for the seam to drive first, then resorts to passing, perhaps a result of coming off the bench.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry Dragic isn't fun cause he doesn't get assists


Have you ever heard of him passing the ball when there isn't an assist opportunity involved? Quit thinking of assists as extremely important. There's better ball movement when Dragic is on the court because he's not holding onto the ball for so long like Nash is.

[Xylus]

Nash=ticket sales. Dragic not so much.

I don't think the difference in ticket sales would be that much. Phoenix loves Goran Dragic.

[Jeremy]

Nash might miss tonight's game due to his abdominal/back problems:


Nash nagged

Suns guard Steve Nash was told to take Saturday off but he reported for treatment of an abdominal strain that has bothered him since late January. After Friday's win, he said it was worse than ever and said he felt a "shearing pain" in the first quarter.

"He didn't have it right from the start," Gentry said. "Two minutes into the game, I said, 'We've just got to find a way.'

"I would not risk him going (Sunday vs. Sacramento) and further injuring himself. I'd rather him miss one game than five down on the road."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/02/20/20100220suns-amare-stoudemire-vision.html

[Xylus]

Nash definitely needs a break. The nagging injuries need to be treated now before they become a bigger problem later this season. We're playing one of the worst teams in the league tonight, so Goran should be able to handle starting duties just fine.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yay, I get to see Dragic start tonight before going back down to T-Town. It's like a dream come true.

[Steve_Nash]

Sorry guys, forgot to take my yeast infection meds so it needs a few days to settle down before I play again. I hope we lose tonight, watching Dragic win isn't very fun.

[Goran Tragic]

God, i hope I can get the ball cross half court and pass it to Hill before I turn it over. Oh shit! I think I'm going to cry, maybe steve will get better? Maybe I can fake the flu and get out this.

[Goran Dragic]

Sup Goran?

[Goran Tragic]

Sup Goran?

Stevie once again beat me in assists 17 to 2. God I suck...

[Goran Dragic]

Stevie once again beat me in assists 17 to 2. God I suck...


Indeed son I was Tragic tonight. At least I don't thumb down the USA for winning.

[Xylus]

Suns held the Kings to 34 points in the 2nd half, and outrebounded them by 13. Including 20 (!) offensive rebounds. Of course, the Kings aren't a good team and they were on a back-to-back, but the Suns won a game they were supposed to win, with defense and rebounding in the 2nd half.

Even before tonight's game, the Suns have been the best rebounding team in the NBA in their last 10 games. (http://www.dougstats.com/09-10TeamsLF.html)

[Jeremy]

Nash is not making the trip to OKC, so Goran will finally get a start.

[mojorizen7]

Problem is #3 has been an issue for decades now, it's part of the team's identity.

Right. Which takes us back to why we're 0fer whateverthefuck it is.

If the culture doesn't change,neither will the empty trophy case....it ain't rocket science.
When Colangelo and Fitz went out and brought in Barkley in '92 it represented the antithesis of nearly everything the SUNS had done prior to that(and since)culture-wise...the result: we were within one game of winning it all.
The SUNS basketball culture sucks.

BTW, wut up Dragic?....I'm pullin for ya bro.......you might get to actually lead your own SUNS team by the year 2020 at this rate. Hang in there White Magic.:toast

[pauls931]

Right. Which takes us back to why we're 0fer whateverthefuck it is.

If the culture doesn't change,neither will the empty trophy case....it ain't rocket science.
When Colangelo and Fitz went out and brought in Barkley in '92 it represented the antithesis of nearly everything the SUNS had done prior to that(and since)culture-wise...the result: we were within one game of winning it all.
The SUNS basketball culture sucks.

BTW, wut up Dragic?....I'm pullin for ya bro.......you might get to actually lead your own SUNS team by the year 2020 at this rate. Hang in there White Magic.:toast


Yup, I started following the suns in 93 and they were total offense, even westphaul would joke during the ASG that he could make anyone MVP by having Barkley guard them. And I'm pulling for Dragic too, just not ready to throw Nash under the bus yet.

[pauls931]

Indeed son I was Tragic tonight. At least I don't thumb down the USA for winning.

I assume the US beat Canada his home country at something...

[Goran Dragic]

I assume the US beat Canada his home country at something...


Sons that's correct. God bless.

[RonMexico]

17 assists

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

17 assists


http://rpnidev.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/1087039-riveting_tale_chap_super1.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So, has Nash healed from that "injury" AZCentral fabricated?