What do you think is going on?

[tim_duncan_fan]

I was just wondering what other fans think is going on in Pop's head given his erratic, miniscule lineups, terrible play calls and his aversion to playing the youth.

Is he tanking? Or maybe he's crazy? Or does he truly believe he is doing the right things to have the team in position to win?


What do yall think is going on?

[admiralsnackbar]

I think he's trying to make the best of the playbook he curtailed in order to make it easier for the new guys to fit in. And even though I don't have any interest in a new coach, I believe it is killing the team.

[Sean Cagney]

POP IS DRUNK OR TRASH NOW, period........

[lennyalderette]

i am baffled by pops behavior!! its just like anything else when they are doing good we praise them, when they are doing terrible we talk crap about it, people in here are trying to deny the stupidity pop is showing, because its so unlike the man it really is hard to believe.
i am a huge fan of pop, i do not understand whats going on, but his personality is starting to piss people off because now hes the same asshole but who's losing. The man is just so stubborn and hardheaded, hes the type that will drive his team into the ground before changing the lineup. we need a new coach and its a really sad year for san antonio

[admiralsnackbar]

Jesus H... who do people propose should take over for Pop? Carlesimo? AJ? These guys sound like a better option?

Shit... let's get Hubie Brown. At least that bastard racked up some winning seasons before he turned into a mummy.

[Mr.Robinson]

I think POP is bitter.

[Manu_Ginobili]

I was just wondering what other fans think is going on in Pop's head given his erratic, miniscule lineups, terrible play calls and his aversion to playing the youth.

Is he tanking? Or maybe he's crazy? Or does he truly believe he is doing the right things to have the team in position to win?


What do yall think is going on?

NOTHING, Pop is just finished...he needs to go! He cannot even call one rotation right any more...

[BillMc]

i am baffled by pops behavior!! its just like anything else when they are doing good we praise them, when they are doing terrible we talk crap about it, people in here are trying to deny the stupidity pop is showing, because its so unlike the man it really is hard to believe.
i am a huge fan of pop, i do not understand whats going on, but his personality is starting to piss people off because now hes the same asshole but who's losing. The man is just so stubborn and hardheaded, hes the type that will drive his team into the ground before changing the lineup. we need a new coach and its a really sad year for san antonio

I don't think we need to replace Pop AS COACH. In fact, I think Pop and RC in the front office have failed Pop the coach. By that I mean, I think Pop, like us, sees that the group is not really a champion contender and he's trying every combination possible to find something that works. He'd rather sacrifice a few wins and have a good team at a lower seed than a few more wins without finding the 'key' lineup to compete come playoff time.

The problem is that theory was good earlier in the season when we thought we'd be good. Now we need every win just to make the playoffs.:depressed

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I don't think we need to replace Pop AS COACH. In fact, I think Pop and RC in the front office have failed Pop the coach. By that I mean, I think Pop, like us, sees that the group is not really a champion contender and he's trying every combination possible to find something that works.

This.

[dbestpro]

he's trying every combination possible to find something that works.

Mahnimi? Hairston? Ratliff? Haislip? Trading for a big?

I would say, "he has tried every small ball combination possible to find something that works."

[ffadicted]

Like I've said, CIA pop trying to stay under the radar and get the 8th seed so we face the lakers first round while everyone is still fresh. No worries fellas :smokin

[ElNono]

He's just trying to win his way... it's just not working...

[elbamba]

When its all said and done, I am just glad that KB got 40 minutes of playing time. I think the Spurs are at their best when he is on the floor.

[Chomag]

Like I've said, CIA pop trying to stay under the radar and get the 8th seed so we face the lakers first round while everyone is still fresh. No worries fellas :smokin

I wiish I could smoke what your smoking right about now...

[SilverNBlackCDN]

What I think is wrong with us is that teams around us have been blessed with gift trades, rent a players, and spending.

Spend another 6-10 mill be up there with Dallas $ wise and getting good players with cheap contracts. Look at Marion, Haywood and even Kidd! Salaries are very low for the talent they have...

[xellos88330]

So far my biggest problem with Pop has been his ability to be consistently inconsistent. He wants the team to jell, but uses different lineups all the time. It seems counter-intuitive if you ask me.

[Duncan2177]

I was just wondering what other fans think is going on in Pop's head given his erratic, miniscule lineups, terrible play calls and his aversion to playing the youth.

Is he tanking? Or maybe he's crazy? Or does he truly believe he is doing the right things to have the team in position to win?


What do yall think is going on?

He's crazy

[BigVee]

I am holding out hope that he does have a plan and that things will improve. Watching him over the years there have been many times that I did not understand certain things only to watch it all come together into a championship team. This team is not a championship team but I hope they can improve and build the confidence of those who will be playing next year. I have scratched my head more times this year than ever before. I am still watching but time is moving.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think the lockeroom just sucks right now, although that probably has to do with losing more so than the personality of the players

[sananspursfan21]

i think:

-he knows more about basketball than we do
-he knows his own players more than we do
-he knows more about strategy than we do (even though it appears ridiculous)
-he knows more about spurs' opponents than we do
-he knows why he's not using ian mahinmi
-he doesn't know what is wrong with rj

[Spursmania]

I think the lockeroom just sucks right now, although that probably has to do with losing more so than the personality of the players


It must suck to be in that locker room. No chemistry. Expectations just blown. Almost out of the play-offs. No true bigman to help Timmy. RJ sucking ass. Manu worrying about his new contract and where he's going to end up. Timmy recognizing there may not be another LOB before he retires given the players he has. TP hurt. Pop's crazy line-ups.

Goddamn...:ihit

[BigVee]

Even when they play you can see they want to really get into others faces but hold back. They are more vocal towards each other then I can remember, I'm guessing some would really like to unload on a few......

[bus driver]

we are losing too many games.....:wakeup

[Warlord23]

OK, I'll bite. Here's my theory (watch out, it's a long post).

Pop had a patented system, built on an efficient superstar who commanded a double team in TD, great #2 options (DRob/Sean in 99, Jax/TP in 03, Manu/TP in 05 & 07) and a bunch of veteran role-players who knew how to defend. As the Spurs put up a solid decade of title contention and 4 championships, Pop began thinking that his system was infallible. That no matter who the personnel, his system would deliver the goods.

Which is why from 99 to 07, you can see the evolution in the way Spurs teams were structured. 99 was built on an impenetrable twin tower defense. As DRob got injured and old, Pop slowly began trying out big men who weren't shot-blockers but who knew how to rebound, defend and score a bit. Thus Malik Rose got a lot of playing time in 03, Horry/Nazr did it in 05, and Horry/Oberto were enough in 07.

Pop could afford to do that and still win because Tim Duncan on his own was mostly good enough to keep the paint closed down. Also because our main rival in the latter part of that era (Phoenix) didn't have any big men worthy of matching up against.

In 2006, the first sign of trouble appeared as the Mavs went toe-to-toe with us. Pop didn't know how to react to the Mavs' isolation offense, and he went small for a large part of the series. We lost, but only on a boneheaded foul by Manu - perhaps in Pop's mind he thought we'd done enough to win. Sure enough, the Mavs shit the bed against the Warriors in 07 and we won another title. By now Pop was convinced that the system was unbeatable.

But things were changing. Duncan was getting older and less able to hold down the fort all by himself. Simultaneously, the NBA was making life easier for perimeter players to penetrate the lane. However, Pop wasn't worried. He still had Horry to pair with TD, and a potential Horry replacement in Bonner to continue the strategy.

This tactic bombed in 2008 when the Lakers got Gasol and trotted out skilled big men at both PF and C. An older Duncan couldn't stop them, and Horry and Bonner were just plain outmatched. The failure was complete in 2009 when the Mavs schooled the Spurs, while Pop blissfully continued playing his "system" guys and keeping Hill off the floor till it was too late.

Now, Pop did realize what was going on, resulting in the acquisition of Dice for the 2010 campaign. He also got swingman firepower in RJ. With Hill and Blair both developing, he thought we were on good shape. But the core of his system (dominant big man + 2 great second options aka the big 3) were old/injured. Also, some of the veterans were replaced by youth. Naturally his "system" didn't work.

At that point, I wouldn't have faulted Pop. Instead of his patented "big 3 + veterans" squad, he had a different set of tools to work with - more balance across the lineup, and a bit more youth. After the first 3rd of the season, the onus was on Pop to institute a variant of his system (or a different strategy altogether) to get the most out of this group. It would mean play young 'uns like Blair/Hairston more and let them develop, much in the way that Phil Jackson let Ariza / Shannon Brown / Farmar / Vujacic / Josh Powell contribute. But Pop hasn't been able to figure it out yet.

And that has been his single biggest failure. He's been exposed as a one-trick pony who needs the right squad to make it work. Give him a different talent distribution and he fails badly. Even though this Spurs team is deep, we are trailing teams like the Thunder and Jazz. OKC and Utah's coaches are able to get the most out of their teams with all their respective flaws. But our coach continues to bang his head against a brick wall, trying to make his new square pegs fit his round holes.

[Obstructed_View]

i think:

-he knows more about basketball than we do
-he knows his own players more than we do
-he knows more about strategy than we do (even though it appears ridiculous)
-he knows more about spurs' opponents than we do
-he knows why he's not using ian mahinmi
-he doesn't know what is wrong with rj

So according to Pop, Keith Bogans is better than Manu Ginobili. By your logic, if Manu were better he'd be starting right?

[lurker23]

Good post Warlord23. That's a very nice look at the history of it all, and I approve.

As for my personal take, I won't go back so many years, but just take a look at what I think Pop is doing this year. Some of this will seem like I'm a Pop apologist, but rest assured that I'm as confused and frustrated as most of you; I'm just trying to guess what's going on.

And honestly, I think Pop is as confused as the rest of us (for slightly different reasons). Most of Pop's career with the Spurs, he's had 2-4 key pieces to build around, and he's brought in players with the right balance of skill and personality to fill in around them. In most cases, the pieces eventually gelled well, worked within the defense-first system, and there were no issues.

Going into this year, there wasn't really much change in philosophy in that manner. The players he brought in generally fit the bill; Bogans, Blair, McDyess, and Jefferson are all high character guys who bring a particular skill-set to the table (even if he may have overrated Bogans' and Jefferson's defense, and Jefferson's ability to provide other intangibles). The problem is, the pieces didn't click the way they normally do. Pop had underrated the need to have another defensive-minded 6'10" or taller big man next to Duncan, and he had underrated how crucial Bowen was to holding the defense together on the perimeter. Because of this and a couple other personnel factors, the defense never clicked. When the defense faltered, the Spurs system faltered, even if the fact that they were scoring more points than ever before kept them afloat.

So, when the normal gelling failed to occur, Pop tried to do everything he could to make it work. Whether it was because he was convinced he had the right personnel, or because he knew he was stuck with that personnel due to restrictive financial reasons, he tried (almost) every combination in the book to make it work. He's even tried a wide variety of odd combinations that fans were convinced would fail from the start (mostly different models of small ball, which he had already worked into his repertoire the last few years), but he probably felt that if he didn't try next to everything, he wasn't trying hard enough. The only thing he hasn't really tried is playing the youngest/most inexperienced members of his squad (Mahinmi and Hairston) because, for sometimes valid and sometimes invalid reasons, experience had taught him that he was better off going with veterans in his system.

So, that's where we are now. Pop is stuck with the players he has, and he's still in mad scientist mode, trying everything he knows to make things work. As confusing and painful as it's been for fans to watch, I at least commend him for trying. Most of his experimentation has failed, with only a small handful of successes (for example, Hill in the starting lineup). Only time will tell whether he pulls out ALL the stops and tries out the youngsters. Experience tells us no, but anything is possible with this year's version of Pop. Eventually, probably within the next month or so, Pop will choose an 8-10 man rotation and stick with it, for better or for worse. All Spurs fans can hope for is that this final lineup will be one that can somehow be successful defensively.

[mexicanjunior]

Jesus H... who do people propose should take over for Pop? Carlesimo? AJ? These guys sound like a better option?

Shit... let's get Hubie Brown. At least that bastard racked up some winning seasons before he turned into a mummy.

Tpark?

"Link to another coach that is better?"

[SCdac]

In a nutshell, I think Pop has gotten lazy. I got that vibe from the "gonna let Parker run alot more plays this season" comment back in oct/nov, and the "I have no idea what I got in Blair, I just let him play" comments a month or so back. I think "small-ball" is just uber-convenient for Popovich, in terms of dividing the minutes and play calling, with a dash of strategy thrown in once he see's the opposition going even remotely small. Just sit back, play all my swings/guards, and try to outscore the oppenent. He doesn't have to give effort in coaching and directing older bigs in the mold of Kurt Thomas, McDyess, or Theo Ratliff, and he doesn't have to call up plays for a 20-year old DeJuan Blair or Ian Mahinmi, yet at the end of the day he's still running the team like he normally would only now there's an extra shooter instead of that big, and that extra shooter is expected to the things that big man was doing anyways (ala Jefferson at PF), so in some weird mismanaged way it's like a regular lineup without actually playing a regular lineup.

[MrFundamental]

So according to Pop, Keith Bogans is better than Manu Ginobili. By your logic, if Manu were better he'd be starting right?
:bang

Looks like your strawman team is in full force.

[sananspursfan21]

So according to Pop, Keith Bogans is better than Manu Ginobili. By your logic, if Manu were better he'd be starting right?


by your logic, yah basically

[Obstructed_View]

by your logic, yah basically

Need to work on your reading comprehension. It wasn't my logic that said if Hairston or Ian were good enough to play they'd be playing. If Pop makes sound decisions based on production then that means that Bogans deserves to be starting based on something he's done, and has virtually form day one.

[Budkin]

Great takes by Warlord23 and lurker23! :tu

[iManu]

If I were coach, I'd like to see this done at least once... but I'd like to see these teams get used to each other on the court.

Starters:

Parker
Hill
Fin
Duncan
Blair

Ok, but, here me out...

If it were me. Then, I'd take Fin out after we use him early to spread the floor I would use Mase here, but he can't guard the 3 "as well" (gulp) as fin (enter RJ and Bonner.) Then, eventually, Dice for Duncan.

Parker
Hill
RJ
Dice
Bonner

Then Parker needs a break...

Hill
Manu
RJ
Duncan
Dice

^^This is a tough defensive team, I don't care what anyone says. They can ride it out until halftime, if they have to.

Then Hill may need a break...

Parker
Manu
RJ
Duncan
Blair

Mase, Boges, and Fin are for winded players only, in my world-view. It would have been nice to get Money Mase some more minutes, but we're packed at his position.

At the end,

Parker
Manu
Rj
Duncan
Dice

Just like God intended. But, I think that Blair may deserve Dice's position, here, if he has the energy and the fouls to give. His rebounding possibilities for RJ are nearly limitless, here. :( I love to see Manu and Blair play together, as well.

We're still alright if Tim isn't the Tim from last year's playoffs.

I've always wanted to state my peace with this, and this is always what I hoped would happen this year, but Finley got hurt (don't growl at me) so I never got to see it happen. I'm not saying he should carry all the minutes he should have before, but I was the happiest camper in the world when Fin didn't sign with the Celtics.

Now, I'm not afraid of the Celtics, anymore. I think we're a better team.

I think we can beat the Lakers, too.

It's the Cavs, Mavs, Jazz, Magic, and Golden Nuggets I'm worried about.

Manu is a Laker killer.

[iManu]

This team will live or die by the 3.

[ploto]

The team seems to have no identity. For all the grief given to the run-and-gun Suns of old, at least they knew who they were and what their strengths were. They got personnel that fit what they were trying to do. Pop has claimed that defense is first, but personnel decisions and playing time distributions have not been made with that focus in mind for quite some time.

[The Truth #6]

Pop is a military leader. His strategy is called staying the course. Never admit mistakes and keep doing the same thing over and over again. It doesn't usually work (for example, see the Vietnam War). Domestic opposition only reaffirms his belief in the mission.

Or...most of our players are old, slow, and/or suck, and Pop has very little creativity to try something new. Or, he takes pleasur in boring people to tears. (For example, consider the name "A to Z" wine.

[SequSpur]

Tank 2010.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Pop is senile and the NBA game has passed him by. Not to mention the older the player the better chance you have of being on Pop's good side. Bottom line is Pop is too damned hardheaded and his gigantic ego won't allow him to admit that he is totally clueless.

[gospursgojas]

No excuse for pop's love for smallball...

But pop can't:

Make manu younger, tony healthy, and rj not a homosexual

[Booharv]

Replacing Bowen with Bogans has turned out to be a really horrible move and Pop embarrassingly refuses to admit this. Also, all four of the Spurs big men in the rotation are average or below average in terms of getting up and down the court and that's killed them against fast, athletic teams. He doesn't seem to want to play the only athletic big man they have. Its indecipherable what they're planning with Mahinmi at this point. He might be legitimately worried that if he plays Mahinmi and Mahinmi plays well that he will sign somewhere else, develop into a legit player and make him look bad. Otherwise Mahinmi must be the worse practice player in the league or have a Stacey King level basketball IQ. I'm going to go ahead and believe its the former. Not talking Bowen into coming back after it was clear Bogans didn't have it seems to be an ego move by Pop and the same with Mahinmi's playing time. So I think he needs to let his ego go and just do what is clearly the right move from here on out by playing Mahinmi Bonner's minutes and since its too late for Bowen to get in playing shape, totally benching Bogans. Also, he needs to stick with this decision if he makes it because another huge problem of his this year is sticking to a rotation.

[Booharv]

No excuse for pop's love for smallball...

But pop can't:

Make manu younger, tony healthy, and rj not a homosexual

So annoying that the gays take the hit for RJ sucking at basketball.

[itzsoweezee]

There's no need to try to find a method to pop's madness. He has demonstrated quite clearly that there is no method. Popovich does not have a plan in mind. Nor does he operate by logic. The fact that Popovich benched Bruce Bowen in favor of Finley last year should have made this fact crystal clear. The further stupidity demonstrated by his coaching this year should have removed any doubt.

The guy is a moron who got lucky to be handed a supremely talented trio of basketball players.

[easy7]

If I was Peter Holt I would hire a committee that truly knows basketball to investigate what the hell is going on. How can I spend so much cash and get so little in return? And whoever is found guilty, heads will roll. Of course I am not Peter Holt :lmao but every business man needs to protect their investments specially after spending so much money.

[MrFundamental]

If I were coach, I'd like to see this done at least once... but I'd like to see these teams get used to each other on the court.

Starters:

Parker
Hill
Fin
Duncan
Blair

Ok, but, here me out...

If it were me. Then, I'd take Fin out after we use him early to spread the floor I would use Mase here, but he can't guard the 3 "as well" (gulp) as fin (enter RJ and Bonner.) Then, eventually, Dice for Duncan.

Parker
Hill
RJ
Dice
Bonner

Then Parker needs a break...

Hill
Manu
RJ
Duncan
Dice

^^This is a tough defensive team, I don't care what anyone says. They can ride it out until halftime, if they have to.

Then Hill may need a break...

Parker
Manu
RJ
Duncan
Blair

Mase, Boges, and Fin are for winded players only, in my world-view. It would have been nice to get Money Mase some more minutes, but we're packed at his position.

At the end,

Parker
Manu
Rj
Duncan
Dice

Just like God intended. But, I think that Blair may deserve Dice's position, here, if he has the energy and the fouls to give. His rebounding possibilities for RJ are nearly limitless, here. :( I love to see Manu and Blair play together, as well.

We're still alright if Tim isn't the Tim from last year's playoffs.

Only thing I would say would be a rotation with Dice/Blair/Bonner to attempt to limit Duncan's minutes a bit, and that Finley should be limited to ~10 minutes/game after starting. Other then that, good post!

[GhosTown]

i think:

-he knows more about strategy than we do (even though it appears ridiculous)
-he knows more about spurs' opponents than we do
-he doesn't know what is wrong with rj

How does he know more about the opponent than we do? Do they have some special kind of game film that only the coaches see of the opponents?

If you have league pass and the internet you have the same footage and stats that Pop is privy too. This guy doesn't know shit about the Lakers, Nuggets, or Mavs that we don't know. And if Pop has to waste a game to see that Blair can't guard Gasol for 30secs yet alone a whole 3 mins, then he is a fool.

I wouldn't give him all the credit you are giving him, because that is the problem. Spurs fans are not demanding a better product from the coach. Other than fans like me, the only person in that locker room who gets it, is Mason. Because he had sense enough to know he is on the Titanic and the band is playing. He asked for a trade because it is pointless to play for Pop under this dumbass scheme.

[sananspursfan21]

Need to work on your reading comprehension. It wasn't my logic that said if Hairston or Ian were good enough to play they'd be playing. If Pop makes sound decisions based on production then that means that Bogans deserves to be starting based on something he's done, and has virtually form day one.


you need to work on not responding to my posts and others posts when your responses make absolutely no sense and you act like your so right and everybody else is wrong. until the spurs franchise appoints you as some kind of expert then you need to back off cuz you sound about as stupid as those mavericks trolls

[Obstructed_View]

you need to work on not responding to my posts and others posts when your responses make absolutely no sense and you act like your so right and everybody else is wrong. until the spurs franchise appoints you as some kind of expert then you need to back off cuz you sound about as stupid as those mavericks trolls

:lol

Please have your mom proofread your posts. And stay out of the Spurs forum if you can't debate with the grownups. If you insist on Popsucking, this isn't really the thread in which to do it.

[TJastal]

How does he know more about the opponent than we do? Do they have some special kind of game film that only the coaches see of the opponents?

If you have league pass and the internet you have the same footage and stats that Pop is privy too. This guy doesn't know shit about the Lakers, Nuggets, or Mavs that we don't know. And if Pop has to waste a game to see that Blair can't guard Gasol for 30secs yet alone a whole 3 mins, then he is a fool.

I wouldn't give him all the credit you are giving him, because that is the problem. Spurs fans are not demanding a better product from the coach. Other than fans like me, the only person in that locker room who gets it, is Mason. Because he had sense enough to know he is on the Titanic and the band is playing. He asked for a trade because it is pointless to play for Pop under this dumbass scheme.

Must be those "secret spies" CIA Pop sends around to infiltrate and record other teams' practices and team meetings.

:lmao

[TJastal]

If I was Peter Holt I would hire a committee that truly knows basketball to investigate what the hell is going on. How can I spend so much cash and get so little in return? And whoever is found guilty, heads will roll. Of course I am not Peter Holt :lmao but every business man needs to protect their investments specially after spending so much money.

Shoot, I bet 5 or 6 of us right here on Spurstalk would have enough knowledge to give poor Peter the lowdown about what is wrong with his team.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

facts:
-Manu simply does not have the energy to attack the basket/make something happen for 25+mins while RJ, bogans, mason stand beyond the three point line doing absolutely nothing.
-All you ever see dice does is set screens and he can never catch a pass from manu.
-First thing RJ does when he receives a pass is to find another person to pass to.
-Hill can be really good when he is in attack mode but becomes very passive with TP and manu on the floor.
-Timmy is not getting any help defending the paint. Timmy is more than a step slow since the All star break.
-We do not know if we have a good/bad TP every night.
-Pop loves bogans for unknown reason.
- We have bonner,finley,bogans and mason who cannot create their own shots and they have major liabilities in defense.

[antgomez2009]

So according to Pop, Keith Bogans is better than Manu Ginobili. By your logic, if Manu were better he'd be starting right?


This guy obviously does not know how to coach!

But, Pop is still trying to keep the same formula that allowed the team to win 3 championships with the core guys he has. I think its not working anymore! Bogans is not bowen, at least Bowen could defend a little, and hit occasional three's, Bogans cannot produce that! Rj is just not playing well at all for 15 mill! Bottom line, they are not playing well with eachother!!! And i can sense and see that on the floor! Who is to blame, well as a team, you Blame the Spurs Organization!

[sananspursfan21]

:lol

Please have your mom proofread your posts. And stay out of the Spurs forum if you can't debate with the grownups. If you insist on Popsucking, this isn't really the thread in which to do it.

:cry