Moving Jefferson's contract

[elec99]

Has any NBA team ever taken an expiring contract early in the season, or is this a move generally taken at or near the trade deadline?

I think it would be advantageous for an early season trade so that you have time to see what you have, as opposed to around feb. Hell, do it in the summer if you can. I think the longer he is around, the more games we lose as we wait for feb to come around, not that he's the only player to point the finger at.

[Mel_13]

The only teams that would be interested in his contract would be those with players on even longer, uglier contracts.

[portnoy1]

The only teams that would be interested in his contract would be those with players on even longer, uglier contracts.
Not true, the Knicks have shown the willingness to make some of the stupidest moves in basketball. Just imagine, July 1st dealing RJ to NY. They just might do it if they dont get LJ/Wade/Bosh next season.

[Muser]

Who knows, Jefferson fat expiring should be fairly easy to move IMO. Just need to get something decent in return.

[elec99]

Not necessarily, I mean, Come Feb someone is gonna want to free up 15 million for the following year. But I'm wondering if that same team would take the contract earlier.

If we keep it then we benefit, however, since it's Timmy's last year (next year) it would make sense to make one last run, thus moving it asap.

[lurker23]

The only teams that would be interested in his contract would be those with players on even longer, uglier contracts.

I generally agree. However, what about this scenario? If I've looked at it correctly, there are at least 4 teams going into the summer who will have $16 million in cap space or more- New Jersey, New York, Miami, and Chicago. If one of these teams completely strikes out in big name free agents, rather than use their cap space to overpay the remaining players, is there any chance they'd rather use their cap space to take on Jefferson? The Spurs would probably be willing to dump him for cheap (say a draft pick or two), they'd have a viable player on a short contract, and a big expiring contract that they can probably flip again for more talent later in the year. Granted, I'll admit this is a long-shot scenario, but if LeBron, DWade, Amare, Bosh, Ginobili, etc. are all signed and Chicago or New Jersey is sitting there empty handed, it's at least an avenue I'd try to explore if I were the Spurs FO.

[elec99]

Not true, the Knicks have shown the willingness to make some of the stupidest moves in basketball. Just imagine, July 1st dealing RJ to NY. They just might do it if they dont get LJ/Wade/Bosh next season.

Yeah, like someone else said, where's Isiah when you need him...

[Allanon]

Early in the season, rarely because teams are still full of hope.

Come February, failed teams will be tripping over themselves to take RJ so they can shed salary. It will probably be the best thing RJ does for the Spurs.

[phxspurfan]

impossible.

[HarlemHeat37]

The FO won't want an impact player on a bad contract in return IMO..hopefully they would take a guy like Iggy, but I doubt it..Philly would be all over that, but I don't think the FO would want to pay a guy like that for 3-4 more years..

[Muser]

Next off-season will be very interesting, that's for sure.

[Mel_13]

I generally agree. However, what about this scenario? If I've looked at it correctly, there are at least 4 teams going into the summer who will have $16 million in cap space or more- New Jersey, New York, Miami, and Chicago. If one of these teams completely strikes out in big name free agents, rather than use their cap space to overpay the remaining players, is there any chance they'd rather use their cap space to take on Jefferson? The Spurs would probably be willing to dump him for cheap (say a draft pick or two), they'd have a viable player on a short contract, and a big expiring contract that they can probably flip again for more talent later in the year. Granted, I'll admit this is a long-shot scenario, but if LeBron, DWade, Amare, Bosh, Ginobili, etc. are all signed and Chicago or New Jersey is sitting there empty handed, it's at least an avenue I'd try to explore if I were the Spurs FO.

I brought up a similar scenario in another thread, only I suggested Parker for one of their young players plus a giant trade exception. It's not at all inconceivable that Knicks fail on their first target and want to acquire a placeholder to move their cap space to 2011 and go after Melo.

If the Knicks offer up their cap space to make 12-15M disappear off of someone's payroll, I believe that they'll get much better offers than RJ.

I don't like the scenarios where we take on a long-term deal in order to move RJ. I'd possibly bite on a trade for a player whose contract went through 2011-12, but I wouldn't be interested in any longer deals. I'd rather see them let his contract expire.

[lurker23]

If the Knicks offer up their cap space to make 12-15M disappear off of someone's payroll, I believe that they'll get much better offers than RJ.


They'd get much better offers as far as talent. I don't think they'd get many offers to take big expiring contracts for cheap. I guess it depends where their gameplan and priorities lie.

[AFBlue]

The only teams that would be interested in his contract would be those with players on even longer, uglier contracts.

This...unless the Spurs were willing to include a major sweetner, like Blair/Hill/Splitter, and even then it wouldn't likely be enough.

My guess is that the Spurs go this route in the off-season with someone like Corey Maggette or Rip Hamilton. They would probably ask for a young player and/or expiring contracts in addition to lessen the cap hit in the future.

[AFBlue]

I brought up a similar scenario in another thread, only I suggested Parker for one of their young players plus a giant trade exception. It's not at all inconceivable that Knicks fail on their first target and want to acquire a placeholder to move their cap space to 2011 and go after Melo.

If the Knicks offer up their cap space to make 12-15M disappear off of someone's payroll, I believe that they'll get much better offers than RJ.

I don't like the scenarios where we take on a long-term deal in order to move RJ. I'd possibly bite on a trade for a player whose contract went through 2011-12, but I wouldn't be interested in any longer deals. I'd rather see them let his contract expire.

Trading Parker next year is the only scenario where the Spurs add the long-term contract of a player is worthy of said contract. Something like Iggy, Speights/Young and future first round pick may be enough.

Having said that, I think it would be a mistake to trade Parker with his value lower than it's been in a while.

[Mel_13]

They'd get much better offers as far as talent. I don't think they'd get many offers to take big expiring contracts for cheap. I guess it depends where their gameplan and priorities lie.

You might be surprised. I did a quick check of expiring contracts in excess of 10M next year. Some of these teams would probably add draft picks to save 20-30M in salary and luxury tax.

Jamal Crawford
Tyson Chandler
Tayshaun Prince
Troy Murphy
Mike Dunleavy
Zach Randolph
Michael Redd
Peja
Sam Dalembert
Jason Richardson
Andrei Kirilenko

I would guess that if NY auctions their cap space, regardless of whether they were looking for the best talent or the greatest additional payment, they'll find a better deal than RJ.

It seems unlikely that RJ will be moved without including additional assets or by accepting an expensive long-term deal.

[5in10]

Would sign and trade work with Memphis for like rudy gay? I know that they may not be able sign gay back, but I'm just not too sure how a sign and trade works...

[Sean Cagney]

Next off-season will be very interesting, that's for sure.

Yes it will.

[dbestpro]

The only teams that would be interested in his contract would be those with players on even longer, uglier contracts.

Elton Brand
Emeka Okafor

[Mel_13]

Elton Brand
Emeka Okafor

Exactly my point.

[Allanon]

Would sign and trade work with Memphis for like rudy gay? I know that they may not be able sign gay back, but I'm just not too sure how a sign and trade works...

A sign and trade would theoretically work.

Memphis signs Rudy Gay to a ~$15 million contract and then exchanges him for Jefferson.

In reality though, there's really no reason for Memphis to take on RJ when they are getting rid of Rudy Gay because they don't want to pay him $15 million.

[pad300]

Available expensive Long term deals (that might be doable marked with *'s) (I have left out most star players - eg. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant, etc.)

Iguoalda*
Deng*
Biedrins*
Maggette*
Ellis*
Josh Smith
Rajon Rondo
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Anderson Varejao
Antawn Jamison*
Shawn Marion*
Richard Hamilton*
Ben Gordon*
Charlie Villanueva*
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger* (if they decide to really blow it up; I don't think they will)
Baron Davis*
Chris Kaman
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bogut
Al Jefferson
Devin Harris*
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor*
Rashard Lewis
Jameer Nelson
Elton Brand*
Steve Nash
Lamarcus Aldridge
Turkoglu*
Calderon*
Bargnani*
Arenas*

Note, the asterisks are associated with either a) really bad contracts (bad players on expensive deals), b) teams that are in financial trouble, and c) teams that might just sell pennies on the dollar to blow it all up.

Also, I am not advocating for any of these players. I am just laying the options on the table...

[HarlemHeat37]

Iggy and Granger were the 2 ideas I had in another thread, and those would be the main players I would go after IF the FO decides to take on a longer contract to give Duncan another year of contending..getting one of those guys(I'd prefer Iggy) would give us an ACTUAL all-star caliber player(these guys can actually create their own shots) and they both also play D(especially Iggy) so we wouldn't have the RJ problem where he can't do anything to contribute when he's scoring(he's been a horrible defender for the 2 years before this due to injuries and he's never been a great rebounder IIRC)..

The other smart option would be to rebuild..

I don't know which one the FO will choose..I could see either one, but I don't think they would be likely to do the former..

[easy7]

IMHO the earliest would probably be next year as an expiring contrat before the trade deadline.

[iManu]

available expensive long term deals (that might be doable marked with *'s) (i have left out most star players - eg. Chris paul, deron williams, kobe bryant, etc.)

iguoalda*
deng*
biedrins*
maggette*
ellis*
josh smith
rajon rondo
gerald wallace
stephen jackson
anderson varejao
antawn jamison*
shawn marion*
richard hamilton*
ben gordon*
charlie villanueva*
kevin martin
danny granger* (if they decide to really blow it up; i don't think they will)
baron davis*
chris kaman
pau gasol
andrew bynum
lamar odom
andrew bogut
al jefferson
devin harris*
chris paul
emeka okafor*
rashard lewis
jameer nelson
elton brand*
steve nash
lamarcus aldridge
turkoglu*
calderon*
bargnani*
arenas*

note, the asterisks are associated with either a) really bad contracts (bad players on expensive deals), b) teams that are in financial trouble, and c) teams that might just sell pennies on the dollar to blow it all up.

Also, i am not advocating for any of these players. I am just laying the options on the table...


+1

[exstatic]

Would sign and trade work with Memphis for like rudy gay? I know that they may not be able sign gay back, but I'm just not too sure how a sign and trade works...

You'd have to spike the water cooler in Memphis's front office with LSD to get them to bite on that deal. :lol

[portnoy1]

Available expensive Long term deals (that might be doable marked with *'s) (I have left out most star players - eg. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant, etc.)


Calderon*
Bargnani*




I am laying the options on the table...
Those 2 should do, and add in a wing-defender and we'll be good to go.

[da_suns_fan]

Available expensive Long term deals (that might be doable marked with *'s) (I have left out most star players - eg. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant, etc.)

Iguoalda*
Deng*
Biedrins*
Maggette*
Ellis*
Josh Smith
Rajon Rondo
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Anderson Varejao
Antawn Jamison*
Shawn Marion*
Richard Hamilton*
Ben Gordon*
Charlie Villanueva*
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger* (if they decide to really blow it up; I don't think they will)
Baron Davis*
Chris Kaman
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bogut
Al Jefferson
Devin Harris*
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor*
Rashard Lewis
Jameer Nelson
Elton Brand*
Steve Nash
Lamarcus Aldridge
Turkoglu*
Calderon*
Bargnani*
Arenas*

Note, the asterisks are associated with either a) really bad contracts (bad players on expensive deals), b) teams that are in financial trouble, and c) teams that might just sell pennies on the dollar to blow it all up.

Also, I am not advocating for any of these players. I am just laying the options on the table...

Outstanding list and I agree with your most of your assessment with the asterisks.

Now of all the players with asterisks, which are on teams that would be willing to move them for Jefferson's expiring contract? I bolded the ones where I think it might be possible.

[Shifty]

I wrote something like this somewhere else:

Is there any realistic chance RJ opts out? (waits for laughs)

If I was him I would seriously think about it. Would he rather have 14mil while being miserable and pressured to perform plusbeing a very hated man or opt out while agreeing to a 1 year (or more) deal half the price with no pressure and with the crowd on his side maybe earning another very decent* contract 2 years from now?

*considering what he would get if he keeps playing like he is.

[AFBlue]

I wrote something like this somewhere else:

Is there any realistic chance RJ opts out? (waits for laughs)

If I was him I would seriously think about it. Would he rather have 14mil while being miserable and pressured to perform plusbeing a very hated man or opt out while agreeing to a 1 year (or more) deal half the price with no pressure and with the crowd on his side maybe earning another very decent* contract 2 years from now?

*considering what he would get if he keeps playing like he is.

If Jefferson decided to opt out it would have everything to do with his playing environment and nothing to do with money. If RJ hates playing here and playing for Pop, he could opt out just for the opportunity to leave.

And while I think it's remotely possible that Pop drives him to that, I just don't see him passing up $15M of guaranteed money. I'd put the possiblity at somewhere around 5%.

[Johnny RIngo]

Available expensive Long term deals (that might be doable marked with *'s) (I have left out most star players - eg. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant, etc.)

Iguoalda*
Deng*
Biedrins*
Maggette*
Ellis*
Josh Smith
Rajon Rondo
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Anderson Varejao
Antawn Jamison*
Shawn Marion*
Richard Hamilton*
Ben Gordon*
Charlie Villanueva*
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger* (if they decide to really blow it up; I don't think they will)
Baron Davis*
Chris Kaman
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bogut
Al Jefferson
Devin Harris*
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor*
Rashard Lewis
Jameer Nelson
Elton Brand*
Steve Nash
Lamarcus Aldridge
Turkoglu*
Calderon*
Bargnani*
Arenas*

Note, the asterisks are associated with either a) really bad contracts (bad players on expensive deals), b) teams that are in financial trouble, and c) teams that might just sell pennies on the dollar to blow it all up.

Also, I am not advocating for any of these players. I am just laying the options on the table...

Props for the list - Really appreciate the work you put into it but a good portion of those players are unrealistic options.

If we do trade Jefferson it probably won't be for point guard so that rules out players like Calderon, Nash, Nelson, etc. You can also omit the untouchable players that are too valuable to their respective teams like Rondo, Gasol, Paul, etc.

[Johnny RIngo]

If Jefferson decided to opt out it would have everything to do with his playing environment and nothing to do with money. If RJ hates playing here and playing for Pop, he could opt out just for the opportunity to leave.

And while I think it's remotely possible that Pop drives him to that, I just don't see him passing up $15M of guaranteed money. I'd put the possiblity at somewhere around 5%.

Agreed. Jefferson will never see that kind of money again so it's very unlikely that he opts out. He would have to REALLY hate it here and I don't think that's the case(SA seem to be among the friendliest environments in the league).

[Shifty]

Agreed. Jefferson will never see that kind of money again so it's very unlikely that he opts out. He would have to REALLY hate it here and I don't think that's the case(SA seem to be among the friendliest environments in the league).

I know, it's awfully improbable and I'm just looking for a good scenario, but what if he'd REALLY love it here? Has it happened before?

[AFBlue]

If the Spurs don't land Splitter in the off-season...

Biedrins and Maggette for RJ and Dice makes alot of sense.

[pad300]

I should further note, that is simply a list of players. It does nothing to address the Spurs side of the equation (ie. who would fit), nor does it address incentives needed. I think to move Jefferson's contract, incentives will be needed for almost all of these players.

From my perspective, assuming Splitter is coming and does pan out, I would not expect the FO to get a big. We can currently expect to have 4 decent bigs next year (and 3 the following 2 years) - Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Splitter.

Similarly with Parker and Hill, PG is a pretty full spot. However, it should be noted that moving Parker with Jefferson might be an option as an incentive; at that point, getting back a good PG would be important. Assuming not moving Parker, a PG received would have to be able to run 2 PG sets with Parker (ie. be able to cover SG's defensively; Parker isn't big enough to do this).

This leaves the wing spots, which is clearly the point of greatest weakness on the team. All of our current wings have significant flaws: Manu has injury issues, Hill is undersized, Jefferson has no balls/brains (he apparently has the physical ability and skills, just doesn't do it 90% of the time), Bogans, Mason, Finley (well, the less said the better about these 3), Hairston is mildly undersized and significantly inexperienced (and that lack of experience may be hiding other flaws, which will only come out with playing time).

This analysis short lists the following candidates:
Iguoalda
Deng
Maggette
Ellis
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Richard Hamilton
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger
Turkoglu
Arenas

My own personal preferences would start with
Iguoalda
Deng
Danny Granger
Ellis
Pretty much in that order.

This is primarily driven by youth, and my estimation of fit in the Spurs scheme. I think Iguolda and Deng would be much the preferable options (Granger would be nice, but I doubt he is actually available... Bird is hanging on too hard to a team thats flawed at it's core.) Ellis is last because a) he a bit undersized b) seems a bit of a headcase and c) I'm not at all sure he'd fit well with Parker.

[easy7]

Right now we probably could not trade RJ for a washing machine.

[Shifty]

Right now we probably could not trade RJ for a washing machine.
We sure tried.

[AFBlue]

I should further note, that is simply a list of players. It does nothing to address the Spurs side of the equation (ie. who would fit), nor does it address incentives needed. I think to move Jefferson's contract, incentives will be needed for almost all of these players.

From my perspective, assuming Splitter is coming and does pan out, I would not expect the FO to get a big. We can currently expect to have 4 decent bigs next year (and 3 the following 2 years) - Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Splitter.

Similarly with Parker and Hill, PG is a pretty full spot. However, it should be noted that moving Parker with Jefferson might be an option as an incentive; at that point, getting back a good PG would be important. Assuming not moving Parker, a PG received would have to be able to run 2 PG sets with Parker (ie. be able to cover SG's defensively; Parker isn't big enough to do this).

This leaves the wing spots, which is clearly the point of greatest weakness on the team. All of our current wings have significant flaws: Manu has injury issues, Hill is undersized, Jefferson has no balls/brains (he apparently has the physical ability and skills, just doesn't do it 90% of the time), Bogans, Mason, Finley (well, the less said the better about these 3), Hairston is mildly undersized and significantly inexperienced (and that lack of experience may be hiding other flaws, which will only come out with playing time).

This analysis short lists the following candidates:
Iguoalda
Deng
Maggette
Ellis
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Richard Hamilton
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger
Turkoglu
Arenas

My own personal preferences would start with
Iguoalda
Deng
Danny Granger
Ellis
Pretty much in that order.

This is primarily driven by youth, and my estimation of fit in the Spurs scheme. I think Iguolda and Deng would be much the preferable options (Granger would be nice, but I doubt he is actually available... Bird is hanging on too hard to a team thats flawed at it's core.) Ellis is last because a) he a bit undersized b) seems a bit of a headcase and c) I'm not at all sure he'd fit well with Parker.

Agree that Splitter coming over significantly reduces the chances of Spurs going for a big w/ RJs expiring.

But, I don't think your preferences are realistic.

Iggy wasn't moved for expirings this year and I don't think he'll be moved for expirings next year...Spurs would have to give up young talent in addition (i.e. Blair or Hill). Bulls are already under the cap enough to snag a max-type player due to moving Salmons/Thomas...so getting rid of Deng makes little sense, since he could be a good complimentary piece. Granger = untouchable. Ellis is redundant with Parker/Hill in the fold.

Maggette can probably be had w/out giving up anything major. Same goes for Rip.

It'll be interesting to see where the Bobcats go with Jackson/Wallace. My guess is if they keep contending, they'll look to add pieces rather than subtract.

As for Turkoglu, that's probably the most intriguing prospect. If the Raps lose Bosh this off-season and start tanking next year, they could very well be looking to dump Turkoglu and his remaining years. Of Maggette, Rip and Turkoglu, I think I'd be most excited to bring back Hedo...he's possesses the outside shooting and all-around game that could work well in the Spurs' system.

[AFBlue]

Right now we probably could not trade RJ for a washing machine.

Considering the Spurs can't trade him until the off-season, your statement is pretty accurate.

But in the off-season when his contract suddenly becomes an expiring one, I'm pretty sure the Spurs could get more than a washing machine for him.

[lurker23]

Considering the Spurs can't trade him until the off-season, your statement is pretty accurate.

But in the off-season when his contract suddenly becomes an expiring one, I'm pretty sure the Spurs could get more than a washing machine for him.

Sounds like AFBlue is holding out for a dryer as well. I approve. :tu

[AFBlue]

Sounds like AFBlue is holding out for a dryer as well. I approve. :tu

It's a hard line, but I think they'll cave.

[pad300]

Agree that Splitter coming over significantly reduces the chances of Spurs going for a big w/ RJs expiring.

But, I don't think your preferences are realistic.

Iggy wasn't moved for expirings this year and I don't think he'll be moved for expirings next year...Spurs would have to give up young talent in addition (i.e. Blair or Hill). Bulls are already under the cap enough to snag a max-type player due to moving Salmons/Thomas...so getting rid of Deng makes little sense, since he could be a good complimentary piece. Granger = untouchable. Ellis is redundant with Parker/Hill in the fold.

Maggette can probably be had w/out giving up anything major. Same goes for Rip.

It'll be interesting to see where the Bobcats go with Jackson/Wallace. My guess is if they keep contending, they'll look to add pieces rather than subtract.

As for Turkoglu, that's probably the most intriguing prospect. If the Raps lose Bosh this off-season and start tanking next year, they could very well be looking to dump Turkoglu and his remaining years. Of Maggette, Rip and Turkoglu, I think I'd be most excited to bring back Hedo...he's possesses the outside shooting and all-around game that could work well in the Spurs' system.

I don't think you are moving Jefferson's expiring for nearly any of those guys, without added incentives. Rather, I think the Spurs are looking at something like, on draft day,

Jefferson, Spurs 2011 pick, Spurs 2013 First Round Pick,
For
Iguolda, Willie Green (throw in to make the salaries work...)

The Toronto options are almost entirely dependent on what Bosh does. Maguette is more available, but I can't say that I think the fit would be great. We need a player who can be creative for others, as Tony is somewhat limited in that aspect. This plus his willing to both defend, and defer when appropriate, is what leads me to Iguolda as my 1st choice.

I should also mention, that were I the FO, I would pursue such a trade, even if the team manages to jell in miraculous fashion before the playoffs...

[HarlemHeat37]

Iggy is my first choice as well, and I think some people are overvaluing him here..

Philly was trying to trade him for months and were close to moving him for that shitty Cavs deal that Washington ended up making..he's a guy that should be a #3 option on a great team but Philly is paying him #2 money on a shitty team for another 3-4 years..I would be surprised if they didn't look to move him for a big expiring like RJ and probably 1 pick..

He would be my #1 option if the Spurs were looking to make another run next year..he's a huge upgrade over Jefferson and he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA when he's trying..

[AFBlue]

I don't think you are moving Jefferson's expiring for nearly any of those guys, without added incentives. Rather, I think the Spurs are looking at something like, on draft day,

Jefferson, Spurs 2011 pick, Spurs 2013 First Round Pick,
For
Iguolda, Willie Green (throw in to make the salaries work...)

The Toronto options are almost entirely dependent on what Bosh does. Maguette is more available, but I can't say that I think the fit would be great. We need a player who can be creative for others, as Tony is somewhat limited in that aspect. This plus his willing to both defend, and defer when appropriate, is what leads me to Iguolda as my 1st choice.

I should also mention, that were I the FO, I would pursue such a trade, even if the team manages to jell in miraculous fashion before the playoffs...

In the case of Maggette or Rip, I think their teams would be satisfied with a straight salary dump and maybe an exchange of first round picks. You may be underestimating how badly these teams want to get rid of the remaining years on those contracts.

I'd say the same for SJAX, except right now they're in the playoff hunt and could end up looking pretty decent going into next year.

As for Iggy...you and I can just agree to disagree, but I don't see them dumping someone that talented for a mid-first round pick.

In general, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the Spurs look to make a move with RJs contract. Do they wait to see if Ginobili re-signs or if Splitter comes across the pond? Or do they do as you suggest and start in advance of the draft?

[AFBlue]

Iggy is my first choice as well, and I think some people are overvaluing him here..

Philly was trying to trade him for months and were close to moving him for that shitty Cavs deal that Washington ended up making..he's a guy that should be a #3 option on a great team but Philly is paying him #2 money on a shitty team for another 3-4 years..I would be surprised if they didn't look to move him for a big expiring like RJ and probably 1 pick..

He would be my #1 option if the Spurs were looking to make another run next year..he's a huge upgrade over Jefferson and he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA when he's trying..

The Sixers believe he has value. They were trying to package him with an undesireable contract (Dalembert/Brand) in order to get some kind of value in return.

And in the end, they didn't trade him.

I don't disagree that he's being paid more money than he's probably worth, but I doubt the Sixers go to the extent of trading him for a mid-first round pick and salary relief...unless the team takes on another one of their bad contracts.

[Ocotillo]

Hasn't Hedo had a tougher time fitting in up on Toronto? His size would be nice to have at the three (or four in small ball).....

[Trimble87]

I don't disagree that he's being paid more money than he's probably worth, but I doubt the Sixers go to the extent of trading him for a mid-first round pick and salary relief...unless the team takes on another one of their bad contracts.

agreed, to get iggy we would have to take on Brand or Dalembert as well.

[AFBlue]

agreed, to get iggy we would have to take on Brand or Dalembert as well.

The time to take on Dalembert has come and gone...he'll be expiring next year just like Jefferson, so there's no benefit to the Sixers losing him.

And Brand's contract is so big that the Spurs couldn't take on both his and Iggy's contracts without giving up Duncan or Parker...for those two, not gonna happen.

That's why I think the only way the Spurs get Iggy is to trade Parker and hopefully get a piece or two in addition (i.e. Young/Speights/Holiday/1st Rd pick). But, I also think that is highly unlikely.

Like I said initially, the main options for the Spurs regarding RJs expiring contracts are teams looking to shed uglier, longer term contracts...unless they want to give up Blair/Hill/1st rd pick(s).

[pad300]

In the case of Maggette or Rip, I think their teams would be satisfied with a straight salary dump and maybe an exchange of first round picks. You may be underestimating how badly these teams want to get rid of the remaining years on those contracts.

I'd say the same for SJAX, except right now they're in the playoff hunt and could end up looking pretty decent going into next year.

As for Iggy...you and I can just agree to disagree, but I don't see them dumping someone that talented for a mid-first round pick.

In general, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the Spurs look to make a move with RJs contract. Do they wait to see if Ginobili re-signs or if Splitter comes across the pond? Or do they do as you suggest and start in advance of the draft?

1) That's 2 firsts for Iggy. Yeah, that's a pretty good price for Philly. The reason I am willing to pay that, is that I can see a decent team after Manu and Time retire. Tony, Iguolda, Filler SG or SF, Blair, Splitter. Hill as 6th man. That's a solid ish team for the future.
2) I wouldn't trade for Hamilton's contract unless Detroit gave us a first rounder... Maguette, maybe, but I am not at all confident he'd be a better fit than Jefferson, what with TP holding the ball. Sjax is a better option, if possible. I'm not sure Larry Brown would be willing to let go without at least a first included, and that would make me wary.
3) As to when the move would happen. If I'm the Spurs, ASAP. If I haven't moved Jefferson when I negotiate with Gino, I have a big question mark regarding is this a competing team, or is it a rebuilding team. Ginobili will be much more likely to sign a smaller (3 yrs 8$M, 7$M, 6$M partial guarantee) contract than if we are rebuilding. Same with negotiations with Splitter; get them done. IF we make a Jefferson move and get Splitter, we are competing. If not, we are rebuilding, and then it's time to get a S&T for Gino rather than watch him leave. You don't want that uncertainty in the negotiations.

Hopefully, next year the team looks like this:

Tim, Splitter, Iguoalda, ?Hairston?, Tony

Manu, Hill, Blair, Mcdyess, a draft pick wing, and some good, cheap roleplayers...

[HarlemHeat37]

Like you said, Philly wanted to attach Dalembert and especially Brand to the contract, it's the smart move..with that being said, there were a lot of rumors that they didn't want to pay Iguodala for so long, especially since the last few years of his deal are back loaded..there's no way any team in the NBA will take on Elton Brand's contract, so I really believe Philly would trade Iggy for a big expiring + a 1st round pick(maybe 2)..

None of those guys interest me at all, I'd rather let Jefferson expire than take on Hamilton or Maggette..I agree with PAD, there's absolutely no way either of those guys would fit here, it would be the same problem as Jefferson..

Trading Jefferson for a guy like Iguodala is the only available move IMO..if RJ isn't traded for somebody that will give us something next year, the Spurs are better off rebuilding..

[pad300]

Like you said, Philly wanted to attach Dalembert and especially Brand to the contract, it's the smart move..with that being said, there were a lot of rumors that they didn't want to pay Iguodala for so long, especially since the last few years of his deal are back loaded..there's no way any team in the NBA will take on Elton Brand's contract, so I really believe Philly would trade Iggy for a big expiring + a 1st round pick(maybe 2)..

None of those guys interest me at all, I'd rather let Jefferson expire than take on Hamilton or Maggette..I agree with PAD, there's absolutely no way either of those guys would fit here, it would be the same problem as Jefferson..

Trading Jefferson for a guy like Iguodala is the only available move IMO..if RJ isn't traded for somebody that will give us something next year, the Spurs are better off rebuilding..

I can think of a couple of other things I might try...

Jefferson + a future first (protected) for Ariza and Battier
sign Tmac for the LLE and Splitter for the MLE...

[HarlemHeat37]

I would have to see more of McGrady to judge that..I'm not sure if I would be cool with Ariza/Battier..I think they're both better fits than Jefferson and Ariza was my original pick to acquire, but I think we need a legit playmaker to make up for the lost ability of the big 3..

I think there will be more options in the Summer as the CBA talks advance and the off-season begins..

[dbestpro]

I don't think you are moving Jefferson's expiring for nearly any of those guys, without added incentives. ...

RJs contract will be like McGrady's next year. Someone will add incentives to dump salary next year to get a contract like RJs.

Elton Brand, Gilbert Arenas and who knows who else will be in the dog house this time next year.

[pad300]

I would have to see more of McGrady to judge that..I'm not sure if I would be cool with Ariza/Battier..I think they're both better fits than Jefferson and Ariza was my original pick to acquire, but I think we need a legit playmaker to make up for the lost ability of the big 3..

I think there will be more options in the Summer as the CBA talks advance and the off-season begins..

I agree with you that a "legit playmaker" would be a needed acquisition if we are to contend. However, there are 2 safe ways we could accomplish that acquisition. 1) A Jefferson trade for say Iguoalda/Turkoglu/Deng/etc. 2) A draft pick, if we hit another home run (Blair, Hill). Assuming we spend most of our MLE on bringing in Splitter or another big, the other option (not safe) for a legit playmaker is to take a gamble on a longshot with whatever is left of the MLE/LLE. I think TMac is by far the best gamble out there. To get 2 major scorers out at all times, one needs 96 minutes : Tim (24 Minutes) + Manu (24 Minutes) + McGrady (24 Minutes) + Tony (24 Minutes) = 96 < Tim (32 min) + Manu (28 min) + McGrady (28 min) + Tony (34 min) = 122 min

[pad300]

RJs contract will be like McGrady's next year. Someone will add incentives to dump salary next year to get a contract like RJs.

Elton Brand, Gilbert Arenas and who knows who else will be in the dog house this time next year.

Yeah, but do we want Brand or Arenas? I don't think so; those guys aren't worth the contractual pain we'd be taking on...

[Mr.Robinson]

Jefferson has been put on a leash. Come playoff time he'll be dunking on everybody and getting to the line at will.

[da_suns_fan]

I should further note, that is simply a list of players. It does nothing to address the Spurs side of the equation (ie. who would fit), nor does it address incentives needed. I think to move Jefferson's contract, incentives will be needed for almost all of these players.

From my perspective, assuming Splitter is coming and does pan out, I would not expect the FO to get a big. We can currently expect to have 4 decent bigs next year (and 3 the following 2 years) - Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Splitter.

Similarly with Parker and Hill, PG is a pretty full spot. However, it should be noted that moving Parker with Jefferson might be an option as an incentive; at that point, getting back a good PG would be important. Assuming not moving Parker, a PG received would have to be able to run 2 PG sets with Parker (ie. be able to cover SG's defensively; Parker isn't big enough to do this).

This leaves the wing spots, which is clearly the point of greatest weakness on the team. All of our current wings have significant flaws: Manu has injury issues, Hill is undersized, Jefferson has no balls/brains (he apparently has the physical ability and skills, just doesn't do it 90% of the time), Bogans, Mason, Finley (well, the less said the better about these 3), Hairston is mildly undersized and significantly inexperienced (and that lack of experience may be hiding other flaws, which will only come out with playing time).

This analysis short lists the following candidates:
Iguoalda
Deng
Maggette
Ellis
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Richard Hamilton
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger
Turkoglu
Arenas

My own personal preferences would start with
Iguoalda
Deng
Danny Granger
Ellis
Pretty much in that order.

This is primarily driven by youth, and my estimation of fit in the Spurs scheme. I think Iguolda and Deng would be much the preferable options (Granger would be nice, but I doubt he is actually available... Bird is hanging on too hard to a team thats flawed at it's core.) Ellis is last because a) he a bit undersized b) seems a bit of a headcase and c) I'm not at all sure he'd fit well with Parker.

Its hard to imagine any of those players would be traded for nothing but an expiring contract. Stranger things have happened (Gasol), but I doubt the Spurs could nab any of them without throwing in Blair.

Danny Granger is a pipe-dream. Even WITH Blair. Even with Tony Parker, for that matter. Would the Pacers trade their most popular player for Tony Parker? Im not saying Granger is better than Parker, but why would the Pacers make that deal? Straight up for Jefferson will NEVER happen.

[pad300]

Its hard to imagine any of those players would be traded for nothing but an expiring contract. Stranger things have happened (Gasol), but I doubt the Spurs could nab any of them without throwing in Blair.

Danny Granger is a pipe-dream. Even WITH Blair. Even with Tony Parker, for that matter. Would the Pacers trade their most popular player for Tony Parker? Im not saying Granger is better than Parker, but why would the Pacers make that deal? Straight up for Jefferson will NEVER happen.

Read the whole damn thread and get a clue... I have never proposed that any of those players would be available for solely an expiring contract. Rather, I have always suggested a trade involving Jefferson's expiring and future first round pick as incentive.

As far as Granger in particular, his availability depends entirely on Larry Bird waking up and realizing he's building a perennial non-contender if he has Granger as #1...and therefore deciding to blow it up properly and start over.

[Agloco]

Early in the season, rarely because teams are still full of hope.

Come February, failed teams will be tripping over themselves to take RJ so they can shed salary. It will probably be the best thing RJ does for the Spurs.

Shitting on the liquor bar again I see..... :lol

But correct again I hate to say. Dicky J just doesn't work here. Best to grind it our until this time next year. Perhaps we can flip him for a draft pick or a decent defensive minded center.

[da_suns_fan]

Read the whole damn thread and get a clue... I have never proposed that any of those players would be available for solely an expiring contract. Rather, I have always suggested a trade involving Jefferson's expiring and future first round pick as incentive.

As far as Granger in particular, his availability depends entirely on Larry Bird waking up and realizing he's building a perennial non-contender if he has Granger as #1...and therefore deciding to blow it up properly and start over.

GEEZ GUY!!! Dont be so freaking sensitive!

My point was that most of the players you mentioned were a stretch without throwing in Blair.

And even if Bird decides he's building a perennial non-contender and decides to blow it up, is highly unlikely he would want to move Granger. Even if he's not a "#1", he's definitely a #2. Might as well keep him.

[G-Dawgg]

I don't know.. I haven't completely given up on RJ yet. It's really unfair to use him as a scapegoat. After all many players -Stephen Jackson for example took a few years to become accustomed to the Spurs. I honestly think the problem is just coaching and chemistry. How are players supposed to find a niche if they aren't given consistent rotations, minutes, or even the lack of plays being run for them? RJ is a young athletic player that has proven he can play in this league. He just needs the coach to use him to his strenths. Unfortunately the coach is having a hard time doing so. I say keep RJ, don't unload his contract call some plays for him and utilize his skillsets in an offense that works to his tools rather than make him adjust to playing out of position, and making him wait for the game to come to him. The problem is the spurs are turning into ballhogs these days and only Ginobili and Duncan seen to be playing team ball. So since RJ isn't usually getting the ball where he is comfortable he's struggling. Keep RJ and trade Parker. Parker seems to have adopted a 'me first' mentality and the team has bogged down since. Hill as good as he is is not a quarterback either. We gotta get back to running set plays for players to get involved and less freestyling.

[elec99]

You know, I've never watched RJ's game as a Buck. I'd be interested in seeing how he was able to put up 20ppg. Was he making his own plays, driving to the rim, open shots, being fed the ball, etc.

And of course, why it's so difficult for him to do whatever-it-was for us.

But the proof will be this: When he is playing for another team after us, how he does. Big numbers means it was Pop's system, same/poor numbers means it was RJ.