Atheism book found in home linked to fire suspect

[Barry O'Bama]

Atheism book found in home linked to fire suspect

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Buzz up!



http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100221/capt.c420a3f4567949e8a9ae15cb20a1ea53.texas_church _fires_dn102.jpg?x=213&y=191&xc=1&yc=1&wc=409&hc=367&q=85&sig=RjdyFzjaIiGKINXHUiqVAg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/photo-provided-Smith-County-Sheriff-Department-Jason-Robert-Bourque-19/photo//100221/480/c420a3f4567949e8a9ae15cb20a1ea53//s:/ap/20100224/ap_on_re_us/us_texas_church_fires) AP – In this photo provided by the Smith County Sheriff Department, Jason Robert Bourque, 19, of Lindale, …



http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100221/thumb.80623b15fdf64787a5774ecf359a1b54.texas_churc h_fires_dn103.jpg?x=50&y=50&xc=8&yc=1&wc=116&hc=116&q=85&sig=B2YNw1ZM0AmJc0Z7UfiOrg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Texas-Church-Fires/ss/events/us/020910txchurchfires) Slideshow:Texas Church Fires (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Texas-Church-Fires/ss/events/us/020910txchurchfires)




By DANNY ROBBINS, Associated Press Writer Danny Robbins, Associated Press Writer – Wed Feb 24, 5:29 pm ET
DALLAS – Investigators have seized books on demons and atheism as well as rifles and knives from in a home linked to one of the men charged with setting an east Texas church on fire and suspected in a string of similar blazes.
Jason Robert Bourque, 19, and Daniel George McAllister, 21, were arrested Sunday and charged with a single count of felony arson in the torching of the Dover Baptist Church near Tyler about 90 miles east of Dallas.
Court documents link the suspects to the Feb. 8 Dover Baptist fire and another the same day at the Clear Spring Missionary Baptist Church in nearby Lindale. The churches are among 11 that have burned in Texas this year in suspected arson attacks.
Investigators searching a home Sunday in rural Grand Saline where Bourque's girlfriend and family live discovered paperback books titled "Demon Possession" and "The Atheist's Way," according to an affidavit filed Tuesday by Texas Ranger Sgt. Brent Davis. Also found were four rifles, three knives and a GPS device at the double-wide manufactured home, the affidavit said.
Bourque also left graffiti in a bathroom stall at a farm and ranch supply store in Tyler that links him to another one of the fires, the affidavit said. Bourque was under surveillance on Feb. 13 when he and his father went into the store, and security video footage shows him entering the men's bathroom, according to the affidavit.
A day later, investigators discovered a carving on a bathroom stall of an upside down cross with flames and the words "Little Hope was arson," the affidavit said.
The Little Hope Baptist Church in Canton burned on Jan. 1, but the cause of the fire hadn't been stated publicly at the time of the surveillance, according to the affidavit.
As a result, the cause "would not have been known to anyone else other than the fire setter," the affidavit said.
Investigators determined that the carving wasn't present when the bathroom was cleaned on Feb. 12, according to the affidavit.
Bourque and McAllister, described as childhood friends who used to attend the First Baptist Church in Ben Wheeler, have been ordered jailed in lieu of $10 million bond and could face life in prison if convicted. Citing a gag order, attorneys for the two men declined comment Wednesday.
Affidavits filed in the case also show that investigators obtained DNA samples from both suspects.
Investigators have matched DNA extracted from a brick found at the scene of one fire and a rock from another and want to see if it can be linked to either suspect, according to the documents.
___

[Spurminator]

This is very valuable information that will be in no way overblown. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Bourque and McAllister, described as childhood friends who used to attend the First Baptist Church in Ben Wheeler

disgruntled baptists?

[Bartleby]

What sort of atheist believes in demons?

[rjv]

What sort of atheist believes in demons?

:lmao

[Fpoonsie]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh288/krispos42/Animated/oh-noes-everybody-panic.gif

[panic giraffe]

and i bet a nazi hates jews.

non-issue.

way to fill in for capt. obvious on his day off.

[baseline bum]

What sort of atheist believes in demons?

LOL. My first thoughts upon seeing that too.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Atheisic dogma seems awfully religious to me.

[baseline bum]

Atheisic dogma seems awfully religious to me.

Maybe you should pay more attention then.

[panic giraffe]

Atheisic dogma seems awfully religious to me.

this is actually true. i have a friend who always wants to push his shtick on people. it really makes him red when i make it appearant to him that he's no worse than a jehovah's witness coming to my door and try to preach.

[Blake]

LOL. My first thoughts upon seeing that too.

+1

after rereading it, I'm assuming they meant separate books.

...then again, it is East Texas near/around the bible belt....

[Blake]

it really makes him red when i make it appearant to him that he's no worse than a jehovah's witness coming to my door and try to preach.

so you've had atheists come to your door and preach?

that's a new one.

[Spurminator]

This dude I knew sunk his boat on a lake, and I was looking through his DVD collection, and guess what movie he owned. Yup, Titanic!

[Oh, Gee!!]

this is actually true. i have a friend who always wants to push his shtick on people. it really makes him red when i make it appearant to him that he's no worse than a jehovah's witness coming to my door and try to preach.

it's true that atheism seems dogmatic b/c ur one friend is rude?

[Oh, Gee!!]

This dude I knew sunk his boat on a lake, and I was looking through his DVD collection, and guess what movie he owned. Yup, Titanic!

that's true b/c this one guy I know loves the Titanic movie and he gets all pushy like a used car saleman about the greatness of Titanic.

[panic giraffe]

so you've had atheists come to your door and preach?

that's a new one.

well not at my door, but in a bar.
so yes. next question please?

[panic giraffe]

it's true that atheism seems dogmatic b/c ur one friend is rude?

its true that some atheist can be as dogmatic as religious folk are about their religion. i'm just an agnostic and could care less about either of their dogma as long as its not imposed on me. so my point to my friend was he was being just as intrusive as a religious freak. its funny when i'm around him and my wife. she's just a step below falwell when it comes to jesus liking, so they both just try to push it on each other. dogma on both ends is stupid to me. we as humanity have bigger things to worry about then what happens when we're no longer breathing.

[SouthernFried]

Atheists are as pushy, probably moreso, than most religious folk I know. And I've been an atheist longer than most people have been alive.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Atheists are as pushy, probably moreso, than most religious folk I know. And I've been an atheist longer than most people have been alive.

they're probably more prone to commit arson

[SnakeBoy]

they're probably more prone to commit arson

Now that all the witches are gone.

[The Reckoning]

athiests are funny in that way. kind of like anarchists "uniting" under the anarchy "symbol."

total hypocrisy.

[EVAY]

So, if I have this right, what we know from the article is that these two guys were/are church-going baptists who are being held for arson of baptist churches.

We also know that a search of their double-wide turned up a paperback on demons and a paperback on atheism.

From the above, folks are arguing about whether or not atheists commit arson against baptist churches?

Really? REALLY?

[panic giraffe]

So, if I have this right, what we know from the article is that these two guys were/are church-going baptists who are being held for arson of baptist churches.

We also know that a search of their double-wide turned up a paperback on demons and a paperback on atheism.

From the above, folks are arguing about whether or not atheists commit arson against baptist churches?

Really? REALLY?

just people digging for whats not there.

completely unrelated, i think churches should be taxed, agree or disagree?

[Blake]

From the above, folks are arguing about whether or not atheists commit arson against baptist churches?

Really? REALLY?

All types of idiots commit arson. Really.

[Oh, Gee!!]

athiests are funny in that way.

total hypocrisy.

in what way? that some are pushy jerks? or, that some commit arson?

[Bartleby]

I strongly doubt these two clowns are atheists.

To me they look like insecure twits who want to see themselves as rebels. And, crazy as it may sound, I think they wanted to get caught. The books were little more than props. Books on atheism and demons served to reinforce their pathetic desire to perceive themselves as bad boys and get people riled up (mission accomplished) since, to many evangelical Christians, an atheist is just as bad as a satanist, if not worse.

Anybody who really wants to get inside their heads should look at their Internet browsing history.

[The Reckoning]

in what way? that some are pushy jerks? or, that some commit arson?

pushy jerks. most atheists arent REALLY atheists. they do it to draw attention to themselves and form atheist-appreciation groups that prey on church-goers. atheist student groups are the worst.

just the other day i had an atheist come up to me and tell me i had some crap on my forehead and handed me a tissue. it was ash wednesday. i told her that her makeup only had God-knows-what in it, and probably a little ash too.

[LnGrrrR]

Atheism book found in home linked to fire suspect


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Buzz up!

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100221/capt.c420a3f4567949e8a9ae15cb20a1ea53.texas_church _fires_dn102.jpg?x=213&y=191&xc=1&yc=1&wc=409&hc=367&q=85&sig=RjdyFzjaIiGKINXHUiqVAg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/photo-provided-Smith-County-Sheriff-Department-Jason-Robert-Bourque-19/photo//100221/480/c420a3f4567949e8a9ae15cb20a1ea53//s:/ap/20100224/ap_on_re_us/us_texas_church_fires)AP – In this photo provided by the Smith County Sheriff Department, Jason Robert Bourque, 19, of Lindale, …



http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100221/thumb.80623b15fdf64787a5774ecf359a1b54.texas_churc h_fires_dn103.jpg?x=50&y=50&xc=8&yc=1&wc=116&hc=116&q=85&sig=B2YNw1ZM0AmJc0Z7UfiOrg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Texas-Church-Fires/ss/events/us/020910txchurchfires)Slideshow:Texas Church Fires (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Texas-Church-Fires/ss/events/us/020910txchurchfires)



By DANNY ROBBINS, Associated Press Writer Danny Robbins, Associated Press Writer – Wed Feb 24, 5:29 pm ET
DALLAS – Investigators have seized books on demons and atheism as well as rifles and knives from in a home linked to one of the men charged with setting an east Texas church on fire and suspected in a string of similar blazes.
Jason Robert Bourque, 19, and Daniel George McAllister, 21, were arrested Sunday and charged with a single count of felony arson in the torching of the Dover Baptist Church near Tyler about 90 miles east of Dallas.
Court documents link the suspects to the Feb. 8 Dover Baptist fire and another the same day at the Clear Spring Missionary Baptist Church in nearby Lindale. The churches are among 11 that have burned in Texas this year in suspected arson attacks.
Investigators searching a home Sunday in rural Grand Saline where Bourque's girlfriend and family live discovered paperback books titled "Demon Possession" and "The Atheist's Way," according to an affidavit filed Tuesday by Texas Ranger Sgt. Brent Davis. Also found were four rifles, three knives and a GPS device at the double-wide manufactured home, the affidavit said.
Bourque also left graffiti in a bathroom stall at a farm and ranch supply store in Tyler that links him to another one of the fires, the affidavit said. Bourque was under surveillance on Feb. 13 when he and his father went into the store, and security video footage shows him entering the men's bathroom, according to the affidavit.
A day later, investigators discovered a carving on a bathroom stall of an upside down cross with flames and the words "Little Hope was arson," the affidavit said.
The Little Hope Baptist Church in Canton burned on Jan. 1, but the cause of the fire hadn't been stated publicly at the time of the surveillance, according to the affidavit.
As a result, the cause "would not have been known to anyone else other than the fire setter," the affidavit said.
Investigators determined that the carving wasn't present when the bathroom was cleaned on Feb. 12, according to the affidavit.
Bourque and McAllister, described as childhood friends who used to attend the First Baptist Church in Ben Wheeler, have been ordered jailed in lieu of $10 million bond and could face life in prison if convicted. Citing a gag order, attorneys for the two men declined comment Wednesday.
Affidavits filed in the case also show that investigators obtained DNA samples from both suspects.
Investigators have matched DNA extracted from a brick found at the scene of one fire and a rock from another and want to see if it can be linked to either suspect, according to the documents.
___

First... F*** you.

Second... no, you know what, the first one pretty much covers it for anyone with a brain.

[LnGrrrR]

pushy jerks. most atheists arent REALLY atheists. they do it to draw attention to themselves and form atheist-appreciation groups that prey on church-goers. atheist student groups are the worst.

just the other day i had an atheist come up to me and tell me i had some crap on my forehead and handed me a tissue. it was ash wednesday. i told her that her makeup only had God-knows-what in it, and probably a little ash too.

I would agree that I've met a few atheists that seemed more pissed off at God than "atheist", as it were.

And yes, the person who did that to you was certainly a biotch Reckoning.

[Drachen]

What sort of atheist believes in demons?

This is what I was thinking, aren't those two books mutually exclusive?

[LnGrrrR]

This is what I was thinking, aren't those two books mutually exclusive?

Eh, not if you're a dumbass atheist :)

[Drachen]

Or he was a Christian who was unfulfilled and decided to research what else was out there for him to believe in. So he bought a book on demons to see if he wanted to serve the dark one, and he bought a book on atheism so that he could see if he wanted to believe in nothing. Then, when he got home and opened them up, he remembered that they were books and he was going to have to read them, so he just said fuck it, called his friends and told him they were leaving right away and that the friend should bring his "burnin matches."

[LnGrrrR]

Or he was a Christian who was unfulfilled and decided to research what else was out there for him to believe in. So he bought a book on demons to see if he wanted to serve the dark one, and he bought a book on atheism so that he could see if he wanted to believe in nothing. Then, when he got home and opened them up, he remembered that they were books and he was going to have to read them, so he just said fuck it, called his friends and told him they were leaving right away and that the friend should bring his "burnin matches."

:lol

[EVAY]

If these guys were Baptists at some point and later became atheists ( which is not a fact but is an assumption by some herein), wouldn't that make them technically agnostics, as opposed to atheists?

Personally, I agree with whomever said that they are just pathetic individuals looking for some pathetic attention.

[EVAY]

just people digging for whats not there.

completely unrelated, i think churches should be taxed, agree or disagree?

I don't honestly think that churches should be taxed by the state or federal governments. I'm quite happy with keeping all of that business separate. My thing is that I would prefer that there be MORE separation than there is now. I get extremely nervous about the religious right and how they want to put their religion into public schools, etc. I'm happy that they are happy in their religious faith, and I don't want to get involved in what they do or don't believe in. I just don't care. But I DO care about not having that religion in my public schools. If they want their kids to have religious instruction, fine. Send their kids to religious schools. But not using my tax money, and so not with 'vouchers' or anything like that.

I've even heard some of the religious right claim that if their children attend a church school or are 'home schooled' that they should be exempt from paying school taxes. I am well past having children in any school, but I don't mind paying school taxes, because I want my country to have a well-educated citizenry. The notion that you should not pay tax if you are partaking of the public school system is a lopsided view of citizenship, IMHO.

[Drachen]

I don't honestly think that churches should be taxed by the state or federal governments. I'm quite happy with keeping all of that business separate. My thing is that I would prefer that there be MORE separation than there is now. I get extremely nervous about the religious right and how they want to put their religion into public schools, etc. I'm happy that they are happy in their religious faith, and I don't want to get involved in what they do or don't believe in. I just don't care. But I DO care about not having that religion in my public schools. If they want their kids to have religious instruction, fine. Send their kids to religious schools. But not using my tax money, and so not with 'vouchers' or anything like that.

I've even heard some of the religious right claim that if their children attend a church school or are 'home schooled' that they should be exempt from paying school taxes. I am well past having children in any school, but I don't mind paying school taxes, because I want my country to have a well-educated citizenry. The notion that you should not pay tax if you are partaking of the public school system is a lopsided view of citizenship, IMHO.

I disagree with the voucher thing, but I don't think it has to be a federal thing. I think that the tax dollars I pay (for schooling), I should be able to use for my child's schooling, wherever that may be.

[EVAY]

I disagree with the voucher thing, but I don't think it has to be a federal thing. I think that the tax dollars I pay (for schooling), I should be able to use for my child's schooling, wherever that may be.

The we disagree. And I hope, respectfully so.

To me, your responsibility as an American citizen is to pay into the hopper as anyone else does for the public education of the young of the country. You are lucky enough to live in a country that allows you to send your children to a school other than those provided by the government, whether that school be religious or private secular. The privelege of citizenship, however, does not, in my mind, exempt you from your civic duty to help pay for the public education of those who do not make the same choice you do.

[Drachen]

The we disagree. And I hope, respectfully so.

To me, your responsibility as an American citizen is to pay into the hopper as anyone else does for the public education of the young of the country. You are lucky enough to live in a country that allows you to send your children to a school other than those provided by the government, whether that school be religious or private secular. The privelege of citizenship, however, does not, in my mind, exempt you from your civic duty to help pay for the public education of those who do not make the same choice you do.

Of course respectfully so.

I am all for continuing to pay for the education of the citizenry when my kids are out of school, but I also think that I shouldn't have to pay twice for MY kids' schooling especially since I am actually saving the public school system money by NOT sending my kid there.

[EVAY]

Of course respectfully so.

I am all for continuing to pay for the education of the citizenry when my kids are out of school, but I also think that I shouldn't have to pay twice for MY kids' schooling especially since I am actually saving the public school system money by NOT sending my kid there.

But it is your CHOICE to pay for your children to attend a non-public school.
Your obligation to the rest of the citizenry does not go away because you have exercised your choice. The public education system cost does not go up or down on a one-student-by-one-student basis. Therefore, the cost of maintaining the system will still exist whether your child is part of it or not. Therefore, the cost of maintaining it is still a part of the shared cost of citizenship.

You remain a citizen of the country, with all its attendant responsiblities, regardless of whether or not you partake in all of its offerings.

[Drachen]

But it is your CHOICE to pay for your children to attend a non-public school.
Your obligation to the rest of the citizenry does not go away because you have exercised your choice. The public education system cost does not go up or down on a one-student-by-one-student basis. Therefore, the cost of maintaining the system will still exist whether your child is part of it or not. Therefore, the cost of maintaining it is still a part of the shared cost of citizenship.

You remain a citizen of the country, with all its attendant responsiblities, regardless of whether or not you partake in all of its offerings.

If you don't think school districts' costs would go up if people didn't make that choice, then just do a quick search of how many private schools there are and get a close approximation of how many new schools would have to be built to house all of those students that the currently don't have to house. Additionally you say that it is my choice to not send my children to public schools so I should deal with the penalty. Yet you are not seeing that those who don't are being rewarded by not sending their children to private schools. It goes both ways when the playing field isnt level. Look, I am willing to compromise too. Take half the money that I send to the school district that I am not using and give it to me for my children's schooling. The remaining half can be used for the educating the rest of the citizenry. Shoot, at the very least make my contribution to my child's education tax deductible.

[EVAY]

If you don't think school districts' costs would go up if people didn't make that choice, then just do a quick search of how many private schools there are and get a close approximation of how many new schools would have to be built to house all of those students that the currently don't have to house. Additionally you say that it is my choice to not send my children to public schools so I should deal with the penalty. Yet you are not seeing that those who don't are being rewarded by not sending their children to private schools. It goes both ways when the playing field isnt level. Look, I am willing to compromise too. Take half the money that I send to the school district that I am not using and give it to me for my children's schooling. The remaining half can be used for the educating the rest of the citizenry. Shoot, at the very least make my contribution to my child's education tax deductible.

Now the last part I could agree with. I think it is completely reasonable to have private or parochial education costs tax deductible. That's a very good compromise, I think. Thanks for thinking of it.

And thanks for a good discussion.

[Winehole23]

athiests are funny in that way. kind of like anarchists "uniting" under the anarchy "symbol."

total hypocrisy.I see it more as involuntary resemblance. Influence, if you like.

If your main thesis is *not X*, your main theme belongs provincially to X and may end up resembling X. Pace Paul de Man (http://www.scribd.com/doc/19216705/Resistance-to-Theory-Paul-de-Man) (and all the kneejerk haters out there), resistance to theory often ends up succumbing to what it consciously resists.


E`en hell hath its peculiar laws, I see! I`m glad of that! a pact may then be made, The which you gentlemen will surely keep?

[Winehole23]

Lagniappe (http://www.classicreader.com/book/1772/6/).

[Drachen]

No problem EVAY. That last sentence about tax deductible should be the very least. It at least brings that field level.

[EVAY]

Lagniappe (http://www.classicreader.com/book/1772/6/).

You know that you are one weird dude, don't you, WH?:lol
Truth is, I've always enjoyed Goethe.

And, I'm a firm believer in lagniappe!

[Winehole23]

You know that you are one weird dude, don't you, WH?:lolI'm pretty sure it's still allowed. Thanks, I guess. :toast


Truth is, I've always enjoyed Goethe.Me too. Hence the lagniappe. It couldn't hurt.

[EVAY]

I'm pretty sure it's still allowed. Thanks, I guess. :toast

Me too. Hence the lagniappe. It couldn't hurt.

Oh, you're right. It was a compliment. It is nice occasionally to be reminded by someone like you that far greater minds than those on this board have contemplated issues far beyond what we contemplate, and have done so with ever so much greater class. Thanks for pulling us out of the mundane from time to time.

[LnGrrrR]

If these guys were Baptists at some point and later became atheists ( which is not a fact but is an assumption by some herein), wouldn't that make them technically agnostics, as opposed to atheists?

Personally, I agree with whomever said that they are just pathetic individuals looking for some pathetic attention.

Standard clarification:

Atheism - lack of belief
Agnosticism - lack of knowledge

You can be an agnostic atheist, like myself. (Not sure about God's existence, don't believe.) Or a gnostic theist. (Know God exists, believe God exists.) Or any other combo.

[EVAY]

Standard clarification:

Atheism - lack of belief
Agnosticism - lack of knowledge

You can be an agnostic atheist, like myself. (Not sure about God's existence, don't believe.) Or a gnostic theist. (Know God exists, believe God exists.) Or any other combo.

Thanks for the clarification on atheism ve. agnostics. I always thought that agnostics were former theists.

I have also always had a certain fascination with gnosticism. I know it was denounced as heresy...I just thought htey had a point about some things.

[LnGrrrR]

Thanks for the clarification on atheism ve. agnostics. I always thought that agnostics were former theists.

I have also always had a certain fascination with gnosticism. I know it was denounced as heresy...I just thought htey had a point about some things.

No problemo. I'd say 95% of the world think that atheists = jerks who don't believe in God, while agnostics = hippies who aren't sure and are nice to everyone. But that makes those of us who are using the term properly by calling ourselves atheists look like jerks. :)

I know some people who are gnostic atheists. Their reasoning goes that the Judeo-Christian god, as do other gods, have logical impossibilities embedded within their being. As such, they could not possibly exist. When a person counters with a "lower" form of God, such as "love=god", they tend to dismiss it as not equaling what they consider a God. In essence, they define God in such a manner as to ensure he can't exist.

I am not sure, personally, but I've never seen evidence to believe. And if I have seen such evidence, then my mind is such that I haven't believed anyways. But I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent about my beliefs.

[EVAY]

No problemo. I'd say 95% of the world think that atheists = jerks who don't believe in God, while agnostics = hippies who aren't sure and are nice to everyone. But that makes those of us who are using the term properly by calling ourselves atheists look like jerks. :)

I know some people who are gnostic atheists. Their reasoning goes that the Judeo-Christian god, as do other gods, have logical impossibilities embedded within their being. As such, they could not possibly exist. When a person counters with a "lower" form of God, such as "love=god", they tend to dismiss it as not equaling what they consider a God. In essence, they define God in such a manner as to ensure he can't exist.

I am not sure, personally, but I've never seen evidence to believe. And if I have seen such evidence, then my mind is such that I haven't believed anyways. But I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent about my beliefs.

Fair enough. Thanks anyway.

[PixelPusher]

What sort of atheist believes in demons?
Maybe his brand of atheism is exacting and specific; there is no "God", but all other supernatural comers are welcome.

[gollum]

Anybody who really wants to get inside their heads should look at their Internet browsing history.

What about many of us that have SpursTalk's political forum in our browser history, what does that say about us?

[mouse]

I'm reading this topic and Jehovah witness knocks at my door, we had a nice chat and he may visit the politics forum. I hope you guys go easy on him

as far as Atheists go, they seem to have a short temper and get very uncomfortable if you bring up God or the Bible. Luckily for me I believe in Alternative design. I don't have to think to hard or experience the drama many of you face in everyday life.

[PixelPusher]

I'm reading this topic and Jehovah witness knocks at my door, we had a nice chat and he may visit the politics forum. I hope you guys go easy on him


We'll be sure to tell him he's welcome to browse the Politics forum, but he can't really join because we already hit the membership limit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_and_salvation).

[mouse]

cool link I will pass it along to him. maybe he can still browse the forum.