How the Neocons were duped in their own game.

[spurms]

Way earlier before the Iraq war, President Putin was stated on record saying that Iraq might have been involved in the terorrist attack on 9/11, saying that Saddam might have been directly involve with the terrorist group Alqaeda without any prove (only to slyly renage on his earlier claims when a UN resolutions has passed), providing an impetus to a pre emptive strike against a third rate military power like Iraq with no asymmetric warfare capabilities. It was an all too convinient motif along with those provided by Ahmad Chalabi to the need to reduce the minority sunni Baath party to dust. That however played into the cards of Neocon agenda of dividing the nation into good vs evil, an eternal war doctrine passover from the soviet era nevermind that the soviet Union collapse on its own because of over extension and poor economic policies, but nonetheless the trap was set in place. Putin a veteran of the cold war era, a veteran of the Afghanistan war, along with Chalabi knew American efforts would provide a short term and long term economic destruction on their efforts and press America covertly that Iraq was the bogyman and hence encouraging America into an unwinnable war which extend to the heart of Baghdad. In 2007 America made a deal with the majority shiite regime, a move which by large is seen as an approach to save face, to secure the Shiites as the power broker in Iraq but the effect by then have already been long overdue. Oil price has reason over 70 % since Bush and Cheney's false flag invasion, America has suffered, while OPEC producing economy has prospered largely. The increasing oil proces the failings of the dollar, and derivatives market bubble has contributed to the plague in America today, with Liabilities of over 50 Trillion, and countless more trillions to come for healthcare liabilites. As well as highlighting American strategic weakness and limitations in this war, it has served to stregthen Americans fallabilities, and it is a widely held belief that any military aggression especially recklessly against an Assymmetric warfare capable nation will be the end of the dollar, and the rise of Oil producing nations like the OPEC will totally collapse the American economy. Hence the reckless Israelite pursuit of Preemptive strike against Iran has been reduced to nothing more than that, a reckless drive for hegemony. At this moment, America are in peril, their Neocon agenda, through extreme shortsightedness and enfounded emasculation of good and evil has a massive blowback, extremism over the past decade has not decrease but has increase 10 folds, anti americansim has not decrease when those initial sympathy has been replaced by exteme apathy towards American foreign policy has been increase 10 folds, the crossroad is here, if America proceed on their fiscal carelessly and continually prolifigate their spending towards antagonising a war against an ideology they cannot defeat, if they continue to be hijacked from within by the neocons and zionist lobbyist, their time is running out, if they do not breach this crucial impasse between the middle east and all muslim nations soon, they will find themselves isolated, trapped withing the hundreds of military bases that they constructed accepted by none, an antagonize by everyone, except from a few holdouts from Western Europe and Israel. The time is now to choose, America still has a choice, a choice between liberty and a failed policy of tyranny, countries are still willing to listen but a failed hegemonice neocon policies doctored after Cheney against another, there isn't much holdout left, as it was clear that 130 Nation states supported Iran's nuclear proliferation program against a few holdout in the UN security councils, time is running out, if another Neocon sneak it's way into the nest American Presidency it will be guranteed the end of America, the beginning of WW3, possibly the end of civilization. YOu cannot put past nuts and idiots chickenhawks to dream up thoise scenarios.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You are soooo yesterday... we are concered about the important stuff now...teleprompter use, campagn promises, cspan is the outrage now.... dead Americans and there was zero outrage by the neocons.. but,but but, the healthcare negotiations were not on cspan is rallying cry for the chickenhawks..

[RandomGuy]

On the assumption that the authors native language is not English:


Well before the Iraq war, Prime Minister Putin stated on record that Iraq might have been involved in the terrorist attack on 9/11, saying that Saddam might have been directly involve with the terrorist group Al-Qaida without any proof only to slyly renege on his earlier claims when a UN resolution was passed, thus providing an impetus for a pre-emptive strike against a third-rate military power like Iraq with little to no symmetric warfare capabilities.

That all-too-convenient excuse to start the war, in addition to those provided by Ahmad Chalabi, whose only desire was to reduce the minority Sunni Baath party to dust. That played into the cards of neocon agenda of dividing the nations thinking into a good vs. evil narrative, an eternal war doctrine similar to that of the Cold War era. Thus was the trap was set in place.

Putin, a veteran of that Cold War era, and of the Afghanistan war, knew American efforts would provide a short term and long term economic destruction for their efforts and pressed America covertly that Iraq was the bogyman and hence encouraging America into an unwinnable war which extended to the heart of Baghdad.

In 2007 America made a deal with the majority Shiite regime, a move which by and large was seen as an approach to save face, secured the Shiites as the power broker in Iraq, although that had already happened for all practical purposes.

Oil prices have increased 70% since Bush and Cheney's false flag invasion, causing America to suffer, while OPEC producing economies have prospered largely. The increasing oil exacerbated the failings of the dollar and derivatives market bubble, problems that contributed to the plague in America today. These problems are added to America’s liabilities of over 50 Trillion, and countless more trillions to come for healthcare liabilities. In addition, they highlight American strategic weakness and limitations in this war, and have served to strengthen Americas fallibilities. It is a widely held belief that any military aggression especially recklessly against an asymmetric warfare capable nation will be the end of the dollar, and the rise of Oil producing nations like the OPEC will totally collapse the American economy.

Hence the reckless Israelite pursuit of preemptive strike against Iran has been reduced to nothing more than that, a reckless drive for hegemony.

At this moment, America is in peril. The Neocon agenda, through extreme shortsightedness and unfounded emasculation of good and evil has a massive blowback, causing extremism over the past decade to not decrease but increase 10 fold. Anti-Americanism has not decreased, and even those who initially sympathized with American foreign policy have been outnumbered by a 10-fold growth in those who are apathetic, if not altogether weary of it.

The crossroad is here, if America proceeds on its path of fiscal carelessness and continually prolifigate spending while waging a war against an ideology they cannot defeat, if they continue to be hijacked from within by the neocons and Zionist lobbyists, then her time is running out. If American citizens do not breach this crucial gap between the middle east and all Muslim nations soon, they will find themselves isolated, and trapped within the hundreds of military bases that they constructed, accepted by none and resented by everyone, except from a few holdouts from Western Europe and Israel.

The time is now to choose, while America still has a choice. This choice is between liberty and a failed policy of tyranny, while countries are still willing to listen. Due to failed hegemonic neocon policies doctored after Cheney against other nations, there aren’t many holdouts left. It was clear that time is running out, when 130 Nation states supported Iran's nuclear proliferation program against a few holdouts on the UN security council. If another Neocon sneak his way into the nest American presidency it will be guaranteed to be the end of America, the beginning of WW3, possibly the end of civilization. You cannot put it past the nuts and idiotic chickenhawks to dream up those scenarios.

[Wild Cobra]

You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq, but I was completly for it, and my reasons were not anything as said in these previous posts.

You see, I was in the military during Desert Storm. I was in the Nuclear Theater. I have heard things that don't get out to the general public. I am so fucking happy we ousted him. We had just cause to go to Iraq, and it wasn't because if any outside intelligence linking Saddam to Terrorist. It was because he really was a wild-card and threat.

For those of you who cannot remember the truth, and are Kool-Aid Drinking Lemming of liberal propaganda, let me refresh your memory. We stopped short of going into Baghdad and Killing Saddam under specific conditions, that he turned around, and repeatedly violated. He was given too many opportunities, and we simply had enough. President Clinton was a weak pussy. Clinton even signed a resolution to bring Regime Change to Iraq, but never followed through. After 9/11, all bets were off.

This was never because of links between 9/11 ons Saddam, but because he fucked with us, and the UN resolutions, one too many times.

[ElNono]

You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq, but I was completly for it, and my reasons were not anything as said in these previous posts.

You see, I was in the military during Desert Storm. I was in the Nuclear Theater. I have heard things that don't get out to the general public.

Sorry, but :lmao

[spurms]

You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq, but I was completly for it, and my reasons were not anything as said in these previous posts.

You see, I was in the military during Desert Storm. I was in the Nuclear Theater. I have heard things that don't get out to the general public. I am so fucking happy we ousted him. We had just cause to go to Iraq, and it wasn't because if any outside intelligence linking Saddam to Terrorist. It was because he really was a wild-card and threat.

For those of you who cannot remember the truth, and are Kool-Aid Drinking Lemming of liberal propaganda, let me refresh your memory. We stopped short of going into Baghdad and Killing Saddam under specific conditions, that he turned around, and repeatedly violated. He was given too many opportunities, and we simply had enough. President Clinton was a weak pussy. Clinton even signed a resolution to bring Regime Change to Iraq, but never followed through. After 9/11, all bets were off.

This was never because of links between 9/11 ons Saddam, but because he fucked with us, and the UN resolutions, one too many times.

Pls do explain in what manner did Saddam fuck with you, apart from trying to circumvent the Oil embargo, Did he fuck with you in 9/11 or Food for oil program or did he fuck with you with WMDs? This is interesting since you claim to have serve in Desert Strom, then you probably havent actually fought a war, technically speaking, I do like to hear more about this claims that Saddam did fuck with you, at least George Bush Sr. was smart enough to recognize that eliminating Saddam would be fatal for USA interest, and didnt proceed with it, he even had a rift with George Bush Jr over his policies of no return, please explain the details, what battalion you serve in, how did you got fucked while cosying in Iraq during Desert Storm.

[admiralsnackbar]

You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq, but I was completly for it, and my reasons were not anything as said in these previous posts.

You see, I was in the military during Desert Storm. I was in the Nuclear Theater. I have heard things that don't get out to the general public. I am so fucking happy we ousted him. We had just cause to go to Iraq, and it wasn't because if any outside intelligence linking Saddam to Terrorist. It was because he really was a wild-card and threat.

For those of you who cannot remember the truth, and are Kool-Aid Drinking Lemming of liberal propaganda, let me refresh your memory. We stopped short of going into Baghdad and Killing Saddam under specific conditions, that he turned around, and repeatedly violated. He was given too many opportunities, and we simply had enough. President Clinton was a weak pussy. Clinton even signed a resolution to bring Regime Change to Iraq, but never followed through. After 9/11, all bets were off.

This was never because of links between 9/11 ons Saddam, but because he fucked with us, and the UN resolutions, one too many times.

If you were in the service when we went back into Iraq, of course you think we were in the right. That was your job as a soldier, and the military's job as an entity whose central purpose is making normal citizens into people who are prepared to kill.

But Saddam just being a wild-card doesn't give us the right to declare war on people, hence the WMD/pre-emptive war smoke the Bush administration blew up this country's (and the world's) ass.

[Wild Cobra]

If you were in the service when we went back into Iraq, of course you think we were in the right. That was your job as a soldier, and the military's job as an entity whose central purpose is making normal citizens into people who are prepared to kill.

But Saddam just being a wild-card doesn't give us the right to declare war on people, hence the WMD/pre-emptive war smoke the Bush administration blew up this country's (and the world's) ass.
You should read the facts surrounding the first Gulf War, and why we left. You should familiarize yourself with the violated UN resolution.Maybe you could learn a thing or two.

Then what about president Clinton already authorizing Regime Change?

[balli]

lol at fucking Cobra trying to argue that trillions of American dollars and 5,000 American lives were worth the UN saving face. Yeah, that's why it was necessary in your opinion Cobra, we just had to protect the UN's honor right? GMAFB.

[boutons_deux]

"I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq"

how fricking convenient.

let's refresh

Saddam did WTC (dickhead's lie, even after dubya abandoned it publicly)

Saddam supported AQ (dickhead's lie)

Saddam had WMD

Saddam had aluminum tubes for nuclear cengtrifuges and was going to smoke USA into a mushroom could (Condi's lie, and Powell's lie to UN)

Saddam had mobile bio-weapons labs.

Saddam was a bad man.

===========

The REAL REASON, NO LIE:

Saddam had 100s of $Bs of unexploited oil reserves and the imperialist US/UK oilcos were being shutout by Saddam who was negotiating with Russia, China, and France as oil partners.

[Wild Cobra]

lol at fucking Cobra trying to argue that trillions of American dollars and 5,000 American lives were worth the UN saving face. Yeah, that's why it was necessary in your opinion Cobra, we just had to protect the UN's honor right? GMAFB.
That's right, twist it all to hell. Remain ignorant. I'm not going to try explaining farther, especially since supporting and knowing some JCS and NATO operations at the time, I'm not sure how much I can share. Not all is declassified, and I'm not the one to make such determinations.

However, you are flat out wrong.

[DarrinS]

<sigh>

[balli]

I'm not sure how much I can share. lol

[admiralsnackbar]

You should read the facts surrounding the first Gulf War, and why we left. You should familiarize yourself with the violated UN resolution.Maybe you could learn a thing or two.

Then what about president Clinton already authorizing Regime Change?

You should learn that lecturing people about history works better when you haven't just said you don't remember history.


You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq...

You should learn about how UN resolutions are violated every day without leading to massive and massively expensive invasions, and how if and when problems are resolved, they are done so by coalitions, not the pot-luck of allies we pressured into going to war with us.

You should probably familiarize yourself with the fact that your weak case for war was not even the reason we were given for declaring war on a sovereign nation, just more out-of-your-ass improvisational horseshit.

And what does Bill Clinton have to do with anything? Did he march us into war? Didn't think so.

[Wild Cobra]

You should learn that lecturing people about history works better when you haven't just said you don't remember history.

You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq...

Is English your 2nd language?

Please... I said I didn't remember the reason the government stated [to the public]. I didn't say I didn't know why we were there...

I was there, working with JCS Command and Control, as a communications technician.

[admiralsnackbar]

Is English your 2nd language?

Please... I said I didn't remember the reason the government stated [to the public]. I didn't say I didn't know why we were there...

I was there, working with JCS Command and Control, as a communications technician.

With top secret clearance, no doubt :lol

And yes, English is my second language.

[Wild Cobra]

With top secret clearance, no doubt :lol

Absolutely. And it's no laughing matter.


And yes, English is my second language.
Then I can accept your ignorance to my statement.

[clambake]

we've all accepted your ignorance.

[ChumpDumper]

I am so fucking happy we ousted him. We had just cause to go to Iraq, and it wasn't because if any outside intelligence linking Saddam to Terrorist. It was because he really was a wild-card and threat.In what way was he a threat?

Be specific.

Oh, right -- you won't. It's TOP SECRET! Yeah, that's the ticket!


he fucked with us, and the UN resolutions, one too many times.And everyone knows what a huge supporter of the UN you are.

[admiralsnackbar]

Absolutely. And it's no laughing matter.


Forgive me if I disagree :lol

[Winehole23]

Xrxd3M3LJqI

[Wild Cobra]

Not from where I worked, but a sister station:

jCAyM15-rNo

[ChumpDumper]

Andrews AFB has a communication system, so the invasion of Iraq was completely justified.[/Cobracode]

[RandomGuy]

You know, I don't recall the resons why our government stated we needed to attack Iraq, but I was completly for it, and my reasons were not anything as said in these previous posts.

You see, I was in the military during Desert Storm. I was in the Nuclear Theater. I have heard things that don't get out to the general public. I am so fucking happy we ousted him. We had just cause to go to Iraq, and it wasn't because if any outside intelligence linking Saddam to Terrorist. It was because he really was a wild-card and threat.

For those of you who cannot remember the truth, and are Kool-Aid Drinking Lemming of liberal propaganda, let me refresh your memory. We stopped short of going into Baghdad and Killing Saddam under specific conditions, that he turned around, and repeatedly violated. He was given too many opportunities, and we simply had enough. President Clinton was a weak pussy. Clinton even signed a resolution to bring Regime Change to Iraq, but never followed through. After 9/11, all bets were off.

This was never because of links between 9/11 ons Saddam, but because he fucked with us, and the UN resolutions, one too many times.

:rolleyes

Since we want to play the "I was" card, I was an intelligence analyst in the Army at the time of Desert Storm.

Totalitarian dictators don't tend to be "wild cards", they tend to be pretty damn predictable, in that they do whatever it takes to stay in power.

Since you can't seem to remember the truth because you are a Kool-Aid drinking lemming of conservative propaganda, there is no way in hell an isolationist, Republican-led congress would have gone into a war with Iraq without some serious provocation.

If you would quit looking at the world through stupid-colored glasses, you might remember your high-school civics lessons long enough to note there is more than one branch of government, i.e. the presidency, and the fact that the "follow through" you say would have been possible by Clinton if he hadn't been a "pussy" would have been impossible.

Bush very clearly saw a link between 9-11 and the war.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1504911/20050629/story.jhtml
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/06/1049459867776.html


The link wasn't that Iraq was a direct cause of 9-11, but that another 9-11 scale suprise attack was in the offing if we didn't follow him into his ill-considered war with Iraq.
That is and was bullshit.

Cheney himself remarked in late 2003:

The administration pushed and pushed on vague, unsubstantiated claims of a link between [Saddam Hussein] and al Qaeda. Vice President Cheney can't stop making the case for a connection between Hussein and 9/11. In his Sept. 14 "Meet the Press" appearance, the vice president said the Iraq war was about striking "a major blow" at "the geographic base of the terrorists who had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11." Even [Bush] had to concede a few days later that "we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the Sept. 11 attacks." Which statement is operative?
source link (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/419820521.html?dids=419820521:419820521&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Oct+07%2C+2003&author=E.+J.+Dionne+Jr.&pub=The+Washington+Post&desc=Wrong+Path+to+War&pqatl=google)

[RandomGuy]

You should read the facts surrounding the first Gulf War, and why we left. You should familiarize yourself with the violated UN resolution.Maybe you could learn a thing or two.

Then what about president Clinton already authorizing Regime Change?

We didn't go in because we didn't want to get bogged down for a decade or longer trying to clean up after toppling the government. That and there was no clear mandate for deposing him.

Cheney, the defense secretary at the time, if you will remember your chain of command, said as much.

[Wild Cobra]

We didn't go in because we didn't want to get bogged down for a decade or longer trying to clean up after toppling the government. That and there was no clear mandate for deposing him.

Cheney, the defense secretary at the time, if you will remember your chain of command, said as much.
Agreed. We had enough reasons not to go in, and Saddam's agreeing to the UN resolutions was one of them.

We all knew it was going to be a difficult war once we jumped in, but he left us little choice.