Mexico drug war going nuts in the valley...

[CosmicCowboy]

Have you guys been hearing about it too? You spring breakers better stay the fuck on our side of the border...

Apparently there is an open war going on between the Zeta's and the Manioso's (Gulf Cartel)...The federales have apparently just left town and are letting them fight it out...supposedly dozens if not hundreds dead in the last week...it's house to house fighting with machine guns, grenade launchers etc. Supposedly a pile of bodies was burned in the town square of Reynosa two days ago and they have dead bodies hanging from telephone poles everywhere down there...apparently it's raging in several towns from Valle Hermoso to Cuidad Miquel Aleman...

The mexican media is afraid to cover it because they are afraid they will be assassinated...

[I. Hustle]

lol maniosos

[1369]

Miguel Aleman? Damn, I used to WW hunt with an outfit there on Sugar Lake. Haven't thought about that place in a long time.

[Fpoonsie]

I was actually planning on goin to McAllen for SB. Prolly stop over in Las Flores for some tacos, elote, Victoria/Indio, etc...

[nervous gulp]

[Whisky Dog]

Damn. I used to go partying in Reynosa all the time back in the mid to late 90s when I was in school in McAllen. We'd just take a skip day and go across for cheap bottles and tortas every now and then too. It was always fairly peaceful and we never had issues, I can't imagine seeing it like this now. That's messed up.

[I. Hustle]

I was actually planning on goin to McAllen for SB. Prolly stop over in Las Flores for some tacos, penis, elote, Victoria/Indio, etc...

[nervous gulp]

Still go! Bring me back some chanclas.

[The Gemini Method]

Have you guys been hearing about it too? You spring breakers better stay the fuck on our side of the border...

Apparently there is an open war going on between the Zeta's and the Manioso's...The federales have apparently just left town and are letting them fight it out...supposedly dozens if not hundreds dead in the last week...it's house to house fighting with machine guns, grenade launchers etc. Supposedly a pile of bodies was burned in the town square of Reynosa two days ago and they have dead bodies hanging from telephone poles everywhere down there...apparently it's raging in several towns from Valle Hermoso to Cuidad Miquel Aleman...

The mexican media is afraid to cover it because they are afraid they will be assassinated...

Bodies hanging from telephone poles? Wow...

We had a high school teacher from SoCal go down there and get executed while vacationing in his wife's hometown...caused quite the uproar...

[z0sa]

:sleep where's the War on Drugs at?

[The Gemini Method]

:sleep where's the War on Drugs at?

It failed the day it was thought up...

[koriwhat]

crazy border towns but i hear it's getting bad deeper in too.

[z0sa]

It failed the day it was thought up...

It didn't fail at imprisoning millions of Americans.

[florige]

And even though all of that horrible shit is going on, I bet there will be some spring breakers stupid enough to go there. Then their parents will be on TV crying wondering what happened to their stupid kids.

[Stringer_Bell]

It doesn't matter what side of the border you are on, if it's Spring Break, you have a vagina, and access to alcohol...the maniosos WILL find you.

[The Gemini Method]

It didn't fail at imprisoning millions of Americans.

True that it imprisoned a great deal of Americans, but even in those imprisonments--there were flaws and inconsistencies in the laws that were supposedly created to end the drug problem in the U.S.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is an Manioso?

[Whisky Dog]

Here's what's being written via the Valley Monitor from McAllen yesterday:

Reynosa leaders speak out about recent shootings
REYNOSA — City authorities are providing information about recent military confrontations in an attempt to quell rumors spread through the social networking site Twitter.

Last week the residents of Reynosa, Miguel Aleman, Valle Hermoso, Matamoros had been shaken by rumors of shootings in their communities.

Reynosa Mayor Oscar Luebbert confirmed a shooting occurred in that city the afternoon of Feb. 22 and a grenade that was launched at the police department the following Wednesday. The Mexican Navy confirmed other shootings. No other authority has spoken out.

On Monday morning, leaders said Reynosa had been quiet over the weekend through twitter that can be followed by http://twitter.com/dirdegobreynosa.

Authorities from the state of Tamaulipas have not confirmed any of the shootings reported earlier, including those reported last week. Gov. Eugenio Hernandez Flores said he was just informed that more federal law enforcement were coming into his state.

But witnesses said they saw at least two convoys of soldiers, with a total of 40 vehicles, on their way to Reynosa. A person at the Eighth Military Zone of the Mexican Army confirmed that the military presence in Reynosa was reinforced.

In a press release the Secretariat of Defense reported that its soldiers detected a confrontation between organized crime groups in the intersection that connect the towns of Camargo and Comales, south of Rio Grande City.

There were no arrests made, the release states, but 22 vehicles —Luck_The_Fakers_ including two armored vehicles — were seized.

The soldiers also seized six assault rifles more than 2,000 rounds, five homemade bombs, one grenade launcher, 95 magazines of ammunition, 28 grenades and one hand grenade.

The army said the public can report an incident by calling 011 (52) 899 926-7092; or send an e-mail to [email protected] or [email protected]

_____

Martha L. Hernández covers Mission, western Hidalgo County and general assignments for The Monitor. You can reach her at (956) 683-4846.

[Manu20]

http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/Recent-Violence-Along-The-Border-Came-From-Fight/yD8sbfdE5UG3nd5abuVJDQ.cspx

REYNOSA, MEXICO - A new intelligence report obtained by CHANNEL 5 NEWS says the recent violence along the border started with the murder of a Zeta leader on January 18th.

The Zetas blamed the Gulf Cartel and demanded they hand over the killer.

When they refused the Zetas then kidnapped 16 Gulf Cartel Members in Miguel Aleman.

That led to the shootouts up and down the border last week.

The report says the violence may not be over. It says the Gulf Cartel has now joined forces with La Familia Michoacana and the Sinaloa Cartel to fight the Zetas.

CHANNEL 5 NEWS will continue to monitor the situation.

[mrsmaalox]

It doesn't matter what side of the border you are on, if it's Spring Break, you have a vagina, and access to alcohol...the maniosos WILL find you.

:lmao Excellent!

[oh crap]

Hopefully this doesn't mean that herb premiums increase too much or causes a drought.

[Stringer_Bell]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/DN-drugwar_01int.ART.State.Edition2.4b92f56.html


At least five attacks took place in Nuevo Laredo and the state of Nuevo Leon over the weekend, led apparently by members of the Gulf cartel who allegedly drove from the Matamoros-Reynosa area in search of members of the Zetas, according to the U.S. intelligence official. Their convoy included 20 SUVs with the logo, "CdG [Gulf Cartel]" and "X" plastered on the backs of the vehicles to distinguish themselves from the Zetas. The vehicles carried an undetermined number of heavily armed men.


Using grenade launchers, they struck police installations, according to accounts that couldn't be independently confirmed by authorities in Mexico City.


This shit sounds intense yo.

[mrsmaalox]

It failed the day it was thought up...

Well it didn't fail at calming the violence in Colombia and pushing it up closer to us.

[The Gemini Method]

Oh so Chapo Guzman has more allies...

[The Gemini Method]

Well it didn't fail at calming the violence in Colombia and pushing it up closer to us.

The violence was self-created with the introduction to cheaper, faster, easier-to-make highs. (i.e. crack and black tar heroin). The code was; to make money the fastest and protect your interests by any means necessary. Columbia was/is still enshrouded in violence, but not as bad as Mexico as the Mexican cartels cut out, for the most part, their ties to the Columbian cartels.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Damn... I have a friend headed to Monterey Thursday, I better warn him.

[The Gemini Method]

Hopefully this doesn't mean that herb premiums increase too much or causes a drought.

To be honest, if you're getting your herb from Mexican sources--you're not getting quality smoke. But then again, I don't know how its done in Texas. I just know where the sources are out here.

[mrsmaalox]

The violence was self-created with the introduction to cheaper, faster, easier-to-make highs. (i.e. crack and black tar heroin). The code was; to make money the fastest and protect your interests by any means necessary. Columbia was/is still enshrouded in violence, but not as bad as Mexico as the Mexican cartels cut out, for the most part, their ties to the Columbian cartels.

That's interesting---I did wonder when I posted that if maybe it's just that because of the increasing violence in Mexico, we're just not hearing about Colombia.

[Chingo Bling]

Thas some bullchit man. I can't even go back to Tamaulipas because of the putos fighting.

[The Gemini Method]

That's interesting---I did wonder when I posted that if maybe it's just that because of the increasing violence in Mexico, we're just not hearing about Colombia.

Ever since the death of Pablo Escobar and the downfall of the Cali cartel, the Mexicans have stepped up their influence in the narcotics trade. At first, they would work for the Columbians to move the product northward into our country. When things got a little too uncontrollable for the Columbians, they allowed the Mexicans to start taking over the trade. That's when you had Felix-Arellano (Tijuana Cartel), Chapo Guzman (Sinaloa Cartel), and the Gulf Cartel vying for top-dog in the cocaine, heroin, and meth biz.

[CosmicCowboy]

You can't believe ANYTHING the Mexican officials and press say. The officials intentionally downplay everything and the Zetas have put the word out for a press blackout and anyone who reports on it will be killed. The Zetas (long time paramilitary enforcers for the cartels, many who were ex-military special forces etc) have gotten too powerful and the gulf cartel has declared war and is trying to wipe them out.

[The Gemini Method]

You can't believe ANYTHING the Mexican officials and press say. The officials intentionally downplay everything and the Zetas have put the word out for a press blackout and anyone who reports on it will be killed.

Would you blame them? I mean, if you say something remotely taken out of favorable view of the Zetas or any other cartel, you're going to end up in a oil drum of acid/lye. There's no way if I'm a journalist I can't be cognizant of what's going on, but it is basically survival. Crazy sh$% is afoot!

[Stringer_Bell]

Oh so Chapo Guzman has more allies...

Considering The Gulf is allied with his old partners that blew his son up with grenade launchers, I assume Chapo won't kick it with his new friends for long. Los Zetas are apparently just loaded with guns and some international ties, so it looks like "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and the smaller guys ganging up on the bigger guy. Fascinating world, this drug war.

PS: Is it wrong for us to choose a side?

[gatoloco]

they need to send in Machete!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kv5uq03I0o1qa94xu.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn... I have a friend headed to Monterey Thursday, I better warn him.

Tell him to paint a red X on his back window. That means he is with the CdG (gulf cartel) so they will leave him alone.

[The Gemini Method]

Considering The Gulf is allied with his old partners that blew his son up with grenade launchers, I assume Chapo won't kick it with his new friends for long. Los Zetas are apparently just loaded with guns and some international ties, so it looks like "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and the smaller guys ganging up on the bigger guy. Fascinating world, this drug war.

PS: Is it wrong for us to choose a side?

True enough...but business is business and if it meant to eliminate one enemy, then I'm sure Chapo would be all for it. It won't be far from his mind to whom he is teamed up with at this point, so it'll just perpetuate the future violence for both Mexico and our country esp. along the border.

There is an article on LA Times that focuses on a different kind of "dealer" that has been making major inroads into middle America. It is a different kind of operation...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-me-blacktar14-2010feb14,0,674979.story

[Whisky Dog]

I knew Osiel ran shit in the gulf back when I was there, but I didn't know the Zetas turned on the Gulf C. That's bad news for everyone in the valley and tamps.

[El Guapo]

this is just kid stuff amigos!

you should have seen the shit that went down in Santa Poco!

[El Guapo]

:sombrero:

[CosmicCowboy]

I knew Osiel ran shit in the gulf back when I was there, but I didn't know the Zetas turned on the Gulf C. That's bad news for everyone in the valley and tamps.

Osiel was the trigger for the shit hitting the fan. He only got 25 years from the Feds last week in Houston and the assumption is he made a deal and sang his ass off. Names, dates, routes, etc. CdG is PISSED off.

[lil_penny]

I'm looking to travel to nuevo laredo next month I hear its beautiful there if you don't mind a little machine gun fire and rocket launchers.

[Whisky Dog]

Osiel was the trigger for the shit hitting the fan. He only got 25 years from the Feds last week in Houston and the assumption is he made a deal and sang his ass off. Names, dates, routes, etc. CdG is PISSED off.

Crazy. Dude should never have tried to take on the DEA with brute force over one informant. Should have looked at what happened to Pablo when he flaunted the US govt. Funny that events from 11 yrs ago are setting this all off now.

[mookie2001]

I wouldn't be afraid, unless you go looking to buy drugs, fight, wave cash around or you're a teenage girl. It's no different than Mexico years ago, im not a fed or in a gang, you could catch a stray bullet anywhere

[koriwhat]

Hopefully this doesn't mean that herb premiums increase too much or causes a drought.

it will only hurt the 7th graders and seniors who smoke. ha

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Thas some bullchit man. I can't even go back to Tamaulipas because of the putos fighting.

yo whats up Chingo? thats unfortunate man

[Blake]

I wouldn't be afraid, unless you go looking to buy drugs, fight, wave cash around or you're a teenage girl. It's no different than Mexico years ago, im not a fed or in a gang, you could catch a stray bullet anywhere

We were down in McAllen this past Thanksgiving. We were going to go over to Progreso, but relatives said that there was an open shooting in broad daylight the week before.

I've never heard of it being as bad as it is right now in the border towns.

[mookie2001]

Yeah it's bad but they didn't invent guns and gangs yesterday

When people get murdered it's for a reason, they've got better people to murder than people eating tacos and drinking beer

now if you're blonde and dress like a asshole I would think twice, but an adult tejano should have no problems


Of course some people are afraid to cruise sw military on the weekend so I can understand the hysteria

[bus driver]

if youre going to a border town and can someone pick me up some gum?

[Blake]

Yeah it's bad but they didn't invent guns and gangs yesterday

When people get murdered it's for a reason, they've got better people to murder than people eating tacos and drinking beer

now if you're blonde and dress like a asshole I would think twice, but an adult tejano should have no problems


Of course some people are afraid to cruise sw military on the weekend so I can understand the hysteria


good points.

They didn't invent war yesterday and I've always wanted to check out Afghanistan.....hotel rates are good right now.

[Sisk]

good points.

They didn't invent war yesterday and I've always wanted to check out Afghanistan.....hotel rates are good right now.

Yeah and as long as your dressed well you should "have no problems"

[mookie2001]

See that's a little different because it's a real war and you couldn't get there if you tried, also the plane trip would costs thousands, it would take an entire day of travel and 50% of us aren't afghan American



So before this Mexican cartel war in the year... I'm not sure, did you go to Mexico often and you just recently stopped?

[The Reckoning]

history shows...

mexico will NEVER get its shit together

[Blake]

So before this Mexican cartel war in the year... I'm not sure, did you go to Mexico often and you just recently stopped?

yup.

[mookie2001]

When was that?
Rather, when did this war start?

[CosmicCowboy]

When was that?
Rather, when did this war start?

Here ya go...


Skirmishes between the Zetas and the Gulf cartel have been brewing for years, but war was declared in late January after Sergio Peña, a top lieutenant to Miguel Trevino Morales, was gunned down in Matamoros by an alleged member of the Gulf cartel. Moreover, the sentencing last week in Houston of Osiel Cardenas to 25 years in U.S. federal prison "opened the flood gates," said Valle.

"The rather light sentence suggest that Cardenas sang, gave names, details and that's only contributed to the mayhem," Valle added.

Ciudad Juárez, some 600 miles up the border from Nuevo Laredo, remains by far the most violent city in Mexico, accounting for more than 450 killings this year, and more than 4,650 since January 2008. Tamauilipas state, however, is a powder keg. This is home to the Gulf cartel and the Zetas. Some of the members were trained as elite special forces operatives by the U.S. and other foreign governments before Cardenas lured them into deserting and forming their mercenary army.

In the last few weeks, according to U.S. intelligence, the Gulf cartel, with the backing of La Familia from Michoacan and the Sinaloa cartel led by Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, the most wanted criminal in Mexico, decided to "wipe out the Zetas, get them out of the way," Valle said.

"The glue was Osiel, the 25-year sentence was the trigger he is not coming back," said Alberto Islas, an analyst on organized crime in Mexico City.

[mookie2001]

Oh ok


I haven't been since January so I wouldn't know

[baseline bum]

So the police are no longer the worst gang in Mexico?

[The Gemini Method]

I miss going to Mexico and dodging .228 and AR-15 shells...

[JoeChalupa]

damn

[baseline bum]

I miss going to Mexico and dodging .228 and AR-15 shells...

Huh? Only thing other than the corrupt-ass police I ever had to dodge there was chiclet and kids selling light-up necklaces and other crap on the street.

[4>0rings]

I used to go down there so much and have great times now it's blown all to hell. I really miss partying down there :(

[The Gemini Method]

Huh? Only thing other than the corrupt-ass police I ever had to dodge there was chiclet and kids selling light-up necklaces and other crap on the street.

I was messing around, Baseline. Being a tad bit sarcastic...

[The Reckoning]

meh mexico sucked anyway. all the bartenders tried to give you change in pesos and said the exchange rate was 1:4. lol...and then the big fat cholas would sit on your lap and say the same thing.

[boutons_deux]

that's the drug war, here's the drug industry

======

Drug Enforcement Administration: Mexican Drug Gangs Taking Over U.S. Public Lands (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/02/drug-enforcement-administ_n_482663.html)

from HuffingtonPost Full Feed (https://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.huffingtonpost.com%2Fhuffington post%2Fraw_feed) by The Huffington Post News Editors

SEQUOIA NATIONAL FOREST, Calif. — Not far from Yosemite's waterfalls and in the middle of California's redwood forests, Mexican drug gangs are quietly commandeering U.S. public land to grow millions of marijuana plants and using smuggled immigrants to cultivate them.

Pot has been grown on public lands for decades, but Mexican traffickers have taken it to a whole new level: using armed guards and trip wires to safeguard sprawling plots that in some cases contain tens of thousands of plants offering a potential yield of more than 30 tons of pot a year.

"Just like the Mexicans took over the methamphetamine trade, they've gone to mega, monster gardens," said Brent Wood, a supervisor for the California Department of Justice's Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement. He said Mexican traffickers have "supersized" the marijuana trade.

Interviews conducted by The Associated Press with law enforcement officials across the country showed that Mexican gangs are largely responsible for a spike in large-scale marijuana farms over the last several years.

Local, state and federal agents found about a million more pot plants each year between 2004 and 2008, and authorities say an estimated 75 percent to 90 percent of the new marijuana farms can be linked to Mexican gangs.

In 2008 alone, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, police across the country confiscated or destroyed 7.6 million plants from about 20,000 outdoor plots.

Growing marijuana in the U.S. saves traffickers the risk and expense of smuggling their product across the border and allows gangs to produce their crops closer to local markets.
Distribution also becomes less risky. Once the marijuana is harvested and dried on the hidden farms, drug gangs can drive it to major cities, where it is distributed to street dealers and sold along with pot that was grown in Mexico.

About the only risk to the Mexican growers, experts say, is that a stray hiker or hunter could stumble onto a hidden field.
The remote plots are nestled under the cover of thick forest canopies in places such as Sequoia National Park, or hidden high in the rugged-yet-fertile Sierra Nevada Mountains. Others are secretly planted on remote stretches of Texas ranch land.

All of the sites are far from the eyes of law enforcement, where growers can take the time needed to grow far more potent marijuana. Farmers of these fields use illegal fertilizers to help the plants along, and use cloned female plants to reduce the amount of seed in the bud that is dried and eventually sold.

Mexican gang plots can often be distinguished from those of domestic-based growers, who usually cultivate much smaller fields with perhaps 100 plants and no security measures.
Some of the fields tied to the drug gangs have as many as 75,000 plants, each of which can yield at least a pound of pot annually, according to federal data reviewed by the AP.

The Sequoia National Forest in central California is covered in a patchwork of pot fields, most of which are hidden along mountain creeks and streams, far from hiking trails. It's the same situation in the nearby Yosemite, Sequoia and Redwood national parks.

Even if they had the manpower to police the vast wilderness, authorities say terrain and weather conditions often keep them from finding the farms, except accidentally.

Many of the plots are encircled with crude explosives and are patrolled by guards armed with AK-47s who survey the perimeter from the ground and from perches high in the trees.

The farms are growing in sophistication and are increasingly cultivated by illegal immigrants, many of whom have been brought to the U.S. from Michoacan.

Growers once slept among their plants, but many of them now have campsites up to a mile away equipped with separate living and cooking areas.

"It's amazing how they have changed the way they do business," Wood said. "It's their domain."

Drug gangs have also imported marijuana experts and unskilled labor to help find the best land or build irrigation systems, Wood said.

Moyses Mesa Barajas had just arrived in eastern Washington state from the Mexican state of Michoacan when he was approached to work in a pot field. He was taken almost immediately to a massive crop hidden in the Wenatchee National Forest, where he managed the watering of the plants.

He was arrested in 2008 in a raid and sentenced to more than six years in federal prison. Several other men wearing camouflage fled before police could stop them.

"I thought it would be easy," he told the AP in a jailhouse interview. "I didn't think it would be a big crime."

Scott Stewart, vice president for tactical intelligence at Stratfor, a global intelligence company in Austin, Texas, said recruiters look for people who still have family in Mexico, so they can use them as leverage to keep the farmers working – and to keep them quiet.

"If they send Jose from the hometown and Jose rips them off, they are going to go after Jose's family," Stewart said. "It's big money."

When the harvest is complete, investigators say, pot farm workers haul the product in garbage bags to dropoff points that are usually the same places where they get resupplied with food and fuel.

Agents routinely find the discarded remnants of camp life when they discover marijuana fields. It's not uncommon to discover pots and pans, playing cards and books, half-eaten bags of food, and empty beer cans and liquor bottles.

But the growers leave more than litter to worry about. They often use animal poisons that can pollute mountain streams and groundwater meant for legitimate farmers and ranchers.
Because of the tree cover, armed pot farmers can often take aim at law enforcement before agents ever see them.

"They know the terrain better than we do," said Lt. Rick Ko, a drug investigator with the sheriff's office in Fresno, Calif. "Before we even see them, they can shoot us."

In Wisconsin, the number of confiscated plants grew sixfold between 2003 and 2008, to more than 32,000 found in 2008.
Wisconsin agents used to find a few dozen marijuana plants on national forest land. Now they discover hundreds or even thousands.

"If we are getting 40 to 50 percent (of fields), I think we are doing well," said Michigan State Police 1st Lt. Dave Peltomaa. "I really don't think we are close to 50 percent. We don't have the resources."

Vast amounts of pot are still smuggled into the U.S. from Mexico. Federal officials report nearly daily hauls of several hundred to several thousand pounds seized along the border. But drug agents say the boom in domestic growing is a sign of diversification by traffickers.

Officials say arrests of farmers are rare, though the sheriff's office in Fresno did nab more than 100 suspects during two weeks of raids last summer. But when field hands are arrested, most only tell authorities about their specific job.
When asked who hired him, Mesa repeatedly told an AP reporter, "I can't tell you."

Washington State Patrol Lt. Richard Wiley said hired hands either do not know who the boss is or are too frightened to give details.

"They are fearful of what may happen to them if they were to snitch on these coyote people," Wiley said of the recruiters and smugglers who bring marijuana farmers into the U.S. "That's organized crime of a different fashion. There's nothing to gain from (talking), but there's a lot to lose."

[boutons_deux]

Here's an article on black tar heroin and entrepreneurial immigrants from Xalisco in the Pacific Coast state of Nayarit, Mexico,

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/14/local/la-me-blacktar14-2010feb14

[byrontx]

Don't knock the Mexican herb, some can be very good. Guys I used to know who were bringing some beautiful hash from Afganistan (stamped with a gold leaf on the bricks) took a many thousands of indica seeds down to Michoacán for their plantations there. Very heady stuff. The herb always came up here with the kilos wrapped in newspaper from there. Always lots of pictures in the papers of gory wrecks; autos, trains, pedestrians.
Does anyone even go across the border for scripts in Nuevo Laredo anymore? I used to know some of the street people there; shoe-shine guys, guides (mainly guiding Americans to Mexican doctors) and others. I guess life is really rough for them now.

[Slydragon]

chiclet.......chiclet.......chiclet......boolet proof best.....chiclet.......chiclet


Seriously, everyone shut the fuck up.....I mean when people Google stuff Spurtalk is always popping up first, second link or first page. That's it, I'm not going to any playoff gtg this year because they gonna show up and mow us the fuck down.

[phyzik]

My co-worker is from Juarez. The shit going on there is crazy! multiple killings every day.....

Perfect time for America to invade and take that shit over and finish what the Alamo defense started!!!

Put me in command! My Great, Great, Great grandfather (Andrew Ponton) was the Alcalde (Basically a Mayor) of Gonzalez County when he told Santa Anna to "Come and Take it" regarding the Cannon that was hid in the river. I'll send those beeners running!

http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batgon.htm

:lol (J/k about the invasion stuff, but I AM a direct descendant to Andrew Ponton)

I am a TRUE San Antonian.

[Stringer_Bell]

Seriously, everyone shut the fuck up.....I mean when people Google stuff Spurtalk is always popping up first, second link or first page. That's it, I'm not going to any playoff gtg this year because they gonna show up and mow us the fuck down.

I tried to tie this subject to Spurstalk on google and was unsuccessful...so I think we're safe. In the event we aren't in the clear, I am getting a tattoo of La Virgen on my back in case any vato locos visit the Playoff GTGs. I'll just show them my tat and they should leave everyone alone. :downspin:

[The Reckoning]

vatos must be running out of targets if theyre googling people to kill

[Slydragon]

I tried to tie this subject to Spurstalk on google and was unsuccessful...so I think we're safe. In the event we aren't in the clear, I am getting a tattoo of La Virgen on my back in case any vato locos visit the Playoff GTGs. I'll just show them my tat and they should leave everyone alone. :downspin:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Mexico+drug+war+going+nuts+&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS345US345&ie=UTF-8

Because they will check all variants they crazy like that.

[CosmicCowboy]

My co-worker is from Juarez. The shit going on there is crazy! multiple killings every day.....

Perfect time for America to invade and take that shit over and finish what the Alamo defense started!!!

Put me in command! My Great, Great, Great grandfather (Andrew Ponton) was the Alcalde (Basically a Mayor) of Gonzalez County when he told Santa Anna to "Come and Take it" regarding the Cannon that was hid in the river. I'll send those beeners running!

http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batgon.htm

:lol (J/k about the invasion stuff, but I AM a direct descendant to Andrew Ponton)

I am a TRUE San Antonian.

My great great GF signed the Texas Declaration of Independence.

[MannyIsGod]

My co-worker is from Juarez. The shit going on there is crazy! multiple killings every day.....

Perfect time for America to invade and take that shit over and finish what the Alamo defense started!!!

Put me in command! My Great, Great, Great grandfather (Andrew Ponton) was the Alcalde (Basically a Mayor) of Gonzalez County when he told Santa Anna to "Come and Take it" regarding the Cannon that was hid in the river. I'll send those beeners running!

http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batgon.htm

:lol (J/k about the invasion stuff, but I AM a direct descendant to Andrew Ponton)

I am a TRUE San Antonian.

Hmm, Ok.

[I. Hustle]

My great great great GF would kick your great great great GF's asses. He invented the lightbulb, clicking pens, that little plastic seal you have to break off of candies and stuff, liquid nails, and monkeys.

[MannyIsGod]

history shows...

mexico will NEVER get its shit together

I blame this shit on the United States and its stupid fucking drug laws. I can only hope this shit spills over and causes a lot of havoc on this side of the border so the US can feel first hand what its prohibition does. `

[baseline bum]

My great great great GF would kick your great great great GF's asses. He invented the lightbulb, clicking pens, that little plastic seal you have to break off of candies and stuff, liquid nails, and monkeys.

Maybe so, but my great great great great grandfather would take the army he commanded and wipe the floor with all of y'all.

[baseline bum]

I blame this shit on the United States and its stupid fucking drug laws. I can only hope this shit spills over and causes a lot of havoc on this side of the border so the US can feel first hand what its prohibition does. `

The US has been feeling it first-hand for 30 years now. It doesn't matter with regard to national laws because it's the blacks and the latinos dying for this shit, not rich white people who matter.

[MannyIsGod]

Not to mention how much money is in keeping so many Latinos and blacks in prison. One of the biggest rackets around.

[The Reckoning]

funny, because thats probably exactly what the politicians in Mexico are thinking right now. "we can't do anything because its the United States fault." it probably is, but thats not the mentality you want to have when trying to improve a country. Mexico had a chance after it nationalized oil and felt its first real sovereignty...but decided to take a nice long corruptive siesta until the drug trade took hold.

[Stringer_Bell]

My great great great GF would kick your great great great GF's asses. He invented the lightbulb, clicking pens, that little plastic seal you have to break off of candies and stuff, liquid nails, and monkeys.

If he didn't invent chiclets, we don't care.

[boutons_deux]

I was at the San Antonio Sports HoF banquet at Alamodome a couple weeks ago. A couple rich Hispanics were up from the valley to honor their coach and sat at my table.

They said a lot of rich Mexicans near the border have moved over to the TX side to get away from violence.

The US's drug market is toxic for all the countries south of the border, and enriching for the prison industrial complex north of the border.

You have to admire the entrepreneurship of the drug baron businessmen in moving their product to meet the insatiable market demand. :)

BigPharma would LOVE to get in on those $Bs. BigPharma has already demonstrated repeatedly that they don't care if their (current) products maim and kill people. :)

[MannyIsGod]

funny, because thats probably exactly what the politicians in Mexico are thinking right now. "we can't do anything because its the United States fault." it probably is, but thats not the mentality you want to have when trying to improve a country. Mexico had a chance after it nationalized oil and felt its first real sovereignty...but decided to take a nice long corruptive siesta until the drug trade took hold.


You sound like you've done extensive study on the situation in Mexico. You should enlighten us with which of their leaders have this attitude and how it manifests itself. Also, what advanced measures do you propose they put into effect to combat the armies of the cartels that are better funded than the government?

[CosmicCowboy]

You sound like you've done extensive study on the situation in Mexico. You should enlighten us with which of their leaders have this attitude and how it manifests itself. Also, what advanced measures do you propose they put into effect to combat the armies of the cartels that are better funded than the government?

All they would have to do is ask the US gov for assistance. You really think those heavily armed Gulf cartel convoys could stand up to a couple of cobra gunships?

[coyotes_geek]

All they would have to do is ask the US gov for assistance. You really think those heavily armed Gulf cartel convoys could stand up to a couple of cobra gunships?

You mean assistance above and beyond the billions of dollars we're already giving them?

[CosmicCowboy]

You mean assistance above and beyond the billions of dollars we're already giving them?

I men play the game for keeps like they do. Kill the fuck out of them wherever you catch them. They kill a honest politician to send a message , kill ten of them to send a message back.

[CosmicCowboy]

They stitched his face on a fucking soccer ball?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/09/mexico-cartel-stitches-ri_n_417326.html


MEXICO CITY — The body of 36-year-old Hugo Hernandez was left on the streets of Los Mochis in seven pieces as a chilling threat to members of the Juarez drug cartel. A note read: "Happy New Year, because this will be your last."

To drive home the point, the assailants skinned Hernandez's face and stitched it onto a soccer ball.

The gruesome find, confirmed Friday by Sinaloa state prosecutors, represents a new level of brutality in Mexico's drug war, in which torture and beheadings are almost daily occurrences.

Hernandez was taken to Sinaloa after being kidnapped Jan. 2 in neighboring Sonora state, in an area known for marijuana growing, said Martin Robles, a spokesman for Sinaloa prosecutors. The motive for his abduction was unclear.

His torso was found in a plastic container in one location; elsewhere another box contained his arms, legs and skull, Robles said. Hernandez's face, sewn onto a soccer ball, was left in a plastic bag near City Hall.

More than 15,000 people have been killed since President Felipe Calderon launched a crackdown on cartels three years ago. While the border cities of Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana have seen much of the violence, Sinaloa state is Mexico's drug-smuggling heartland and is the birthplace of the leadership of four of the six major cartels.

Often, victims are tortured and mutilated, in an attempt to intimidate rivals, officials and others who might represent a threat to the cartels.

Often, it works.

In the northern city of Saltillo, a major regional newspaper announced it would stop covering drug violence altogether after the body of a reporter was found Friday outside a motel with a threatening message. Valentin Valdes had recently written about the arrests of suspected drug traffickers.

"As of today we will publish zero information related to drug trafficking to avoid situations like the one we went through today," an editor of the newspaper Zocalo told The Associated Press. Tellingly, he asked that his name not be published.

Many Mexican news media have stopped covering anything that might be associated with drugs, or limit themselves to reporting on government news releases. At least 17 journalists have been killed in Mexico since 1992 in direct reprisal for stories, according to the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.

Valdes had written about the Dec. 29 arrests at the Marbella Motel of five alleged members of the Gulf drug cartel. He also covered the arrests Wednesday of five others who barged into the same hotel and stole the surveillance tapes.

The 28-year-old reporter was shot to death, and his body was dumped outside the Marbella Motel.

The Coahuila state Attorney General's Office said a handwritten message left next to his body read: "This is going to happen to everybody who doesn't understand, the message is for everybody."

Such threatening messages are frequently left by Mexican drug cartels.

The influence of cartels has increased to such an extent that on Friday all 60 policemen in the embattled town of Tancitaro were fired because they had failed to stop a series of killings and other crimes. Michoacan state police and soldiers will take over security duties in the town.

In December, eight government officials including the mayor of Tancitaro resigned their posts saying they had been threatened by drug traffickers.

The town is in a drug-plagued area and in March the top city council member, Gonzalo Paz, was kidnapped, tortured and killed.

Still, one Mexican official said progress was being made.

Mexico's Ambassador to the United States, Arturo Sarukhan, said that "we have begun to see important results in the ability of U.S. government to detain the flows" of drug-related weapons and cash into Mexico over the two countries' border.

[MannyIsGod]

All they would have to do is ask the US gov for assistance. You really think those heavily armed Gulf cartel convoys could stand up to a couple of cobra gunships?



The Merida Initiative, signed by President George W. Bush and Mexican leader Felipe Calderón in 2007, promises Black Hawk helicopters, night-vision goggles and drug-sniffing dogs, as well as a more robust crime-fighting partnership between the United States and Mexico. So far the United States has delivered 2 percent of the equipment and support promised, according to the report by the Government Accountability Office.



The perception of a slow flow of aid has rankled some in the Calderón government and fueled criticism here that the United States, which spends billions consuming illegal drugs, is fiddling while 50,000 Mexican soldiers and police officers are fighting in the streets to confront powerful criminal organizations that threaten Mexico's national security.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/03/AR2009120304357.html

[MannyIsGod]

I men play the game for keeps like they do. Kill the fuck out of them wherever you catch them. They kill a honest politician to send a message , kill ten of them to send a message back.

Killing them. Now there is a novel idea. I wonder why they hadn't thought of this one yet?

[MannyIsGod]

You mean assistance above and beyond the billions of dollars we're already giving them?

Billions of dollars huh? I bet you assume they're sending over wizards and fairies to help fight with magic too. You should show some proof of billions being sent instead of making shit up.

Billions of dollars are being sent to Mexico. Its by the consumers of the drugs and they're going straight to the cartels.

[bigzak25]

well, i can no longer toke without a guilty conscience.

but i agree with cosmic in that i'd like to see some of our gunships go in and clear out the roaches. seems like these corrupt drug kings are not much better people than many of our lawmakers in washington though. maybe a gunship can take care of business in DC as well...

it's not like any of these people are willing to martyr themselves like islamofascists...

they are not that honorable.

[CosmicCowboy]

Killing them. Now there is a novel idea. I wonder why they hadn't thought of this one yet?

They really only started in 2006 after they had already basically taken over the police forces through bribery/intimidation.

[MannyIsGod]

well, i can no longer toke without a guilty conscience.


Grow your own shit. Its not like if you grow your own weed the US government will treat you like someone who is actually on par with the cartels. OH WAIT, THEY WILL.

Stupid fucking laws



but i agree with cosmic in that i'd like to see some of our gunships go in and clear out the roaches. seems like these corrupt drug kings are not much better people than many of our lawmakers in washington though. maybe a gunship can take care of business in DC as well...


Greed is the same everywhere, but its more fucked up when there are people who are more easily exploited due to their poverty.



it's not like any of these people are willing to martyr themselves like islamofascists...

they are not that honorable.

They're pretty much just greedy thugs, but many of the people who they get to do a lot of the minor jobs are trying to survive.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

This gunship vs. cartel idea sounds a lot like a Nicholas Cage movie I saw on TNT during a bout of insomnia. For this reason I am in favor of such a course of action.

[CosmicCowboy]

So Manny...do you think the fix is in for the Sinaloa cartel? They are the only one the Mexican Fed's really haven't gone after.

[coyotes_geek]

Billions of dollars huh? I bet you assume they're sending over wizards and fairies to help fight with magic too. You should show some proof of billions being sent instead of making shit up.

Billions of dollars are being sent to Mexico. Its by the consumers of the drugs and they're going straight to the cartels.

I was referring to the merida initiative, but as you pointed out that money is barely being allocated. So, point made.

[MannyIsGod]

So Manny...do you think the fix is in for the Sinaloa cartel? They are the only one the Mexican Fed's really haven't gone after.

The cartel's are like tumors you get from radiation. You can focus on eliminating the tumors but if you don't change the overall situation and get your ass out of the radiation then you're just going to get more tumors.

Removing those specific threats is largely a tactical situation and I basically have no idea what they should do to have the most success. What I do know is that until we address the overall situation of a black market so lucrative that it has turned Mexico into a failed state it doesn't matter how many drug lords you kill because there is an unlimited supply willing and eager to take their place.

[CosmicCowboy]

BTW, I totally agree that we should legalize and tax pot.

[DisAsTerBot]

To be honest, if you're getting your herb from Mexican sources--you're not getting quality smoke.

[The Reckoning]

i wonder how much pressure it would put on the US if latin american nations mutually agreed to legalize and nationalize marijuana

[coyotes_geek]

i wonder how much pressure it would put on the US if latin american nations mutually agreed to legalize and nationalize marijuana

None.

[MannyIsGod]

i wonder how much pressure it would put on the US if latin american nations mutually agreed to legalize and nationalize marijuana

Zero. The money comes from the US (and other places but really its the United States and other developed and westernized countries).

[Stringer_Bell]

So Manny...do you think the fix is in for the Sinaloa cartel? They are the only one the Mexican Fed's really haven't gone after.

El Chapo is one of the most wanted men in the world, and at least one other cartel has shown it can get close to him to inflict damage. There's a 5m bounty for him on both sides of the border, but no one will bite at it because no one will see him and if they do they are probably shot.

Has anyone googled images of the drug war? Lots of chopped up bodies and decapitations. They really know how to send a message. :(

[Pero]

Eh, instead of trying to eliminate the supply, you should eliminate the demand.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the problem is the not the cartels, if you wanna stop the cartels? you must stop the corruption for top to bottom in all govt agencies....look the politicians are scared, the cops aint doing shit....if they want something done, they must either stand up or look for international support....

[The Reckoning]

they need to stop farmers that they have growing crops. they should create new industries like industrial hemp so the farmers can utilize their pot growing skills into something legal, productive and financially beneficial.

[CosmicCowboy]

they need to stop farmers that they have growing crops. they should create new industries like industrial hemp so the farmers can utilize their pot growing skills into something legal, productive and financially beneficial.

That's really dumb...

[leemajors]

Eh, instead of trying to eliminate the supply, you should eliminate the black market demand.

[CosmicCowboy]

Legalize it and I'll put those little Mexican farmers out of business.

http://www.monosem-inc.com/images/Michigan-June-2007-075.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

Eh, instead of trying to eliminate the supply, you should eliminate the demand.

And how do we do that? More eggs and skillets for more this is your brain on drugs commercials?

[Pero]

Eh, instead of trying to eliminate the supply, you should eliminate the black market demand.

Good point.


And how do we do that?

What Leemajors said is a good point, but I was actually just thinking that the fast way would be killing all the users. :devil

More seriously, a much better but also slower way would be to teach people how to work with whatever issues they have, because of which they are using drugs, without the drugs and consequently the demand would more or less disappear.
Because making them legal would just reduce the illegal suply, but not the use of drugs.

But in any case, neither will ever happen because it just isn't in the interest of the powers that be.




More eggs and skillets for more this is your brain on drugs commercials?

Sorry, but I don't understand this at all. (remember I'm not from the US)
Also don't know what skillets are.

[mookie2001]

I kick up my feet and begin to watch tv, cuz now I got other people working for me, I got a 65 inch color tv you know, and after a while I hear just say no, or, the other commercial i love- the one where they say this is yor brain on drugs, I pick up my remote control and just turn, cuz with that bullshit I'm not concerned

[T2150]

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/01/home/vidal-drugs.html


September 26, 1970


Drugs: Case for Legalizing Marijuana By GORE VIDAL

In the Long Run It Would Save Lives And End Hypocrisy
http://www.nytimes.com/images/i.gift is possible to stop most drug addiction in the United States within a very short time. Simply make all drugs available and sell them at cost. Label each drug with a precise description of what effect--good and bad--the drug will have on whoever takes it. This will require heroic honesty. Don't say that marijuana is addictive or dangerous when it is neither, as millions of people know--unlike "speed," which kills most unpleasantly, or heroin, which is addictive and difficult to kick.
For the record, I have tried--once--almost every drug and liked none, disproving the popular Fu Manchu theory that a single whiff of opium will enslave the mind. Nevertheless many drugs are bad for certain people to take and they should be told about them in a sensible way.
Along with exhortation and warning, it might be good for our citizens to recall (or learn for the first time) that the United States was the creation of men who believed that each man has the right to do what he wants with his own life as long as he does not interfere with his neighbor's pursuit of happiness (that his neighbor's idea of happiness is persecuting others does confuse matters a bit).
This is a startling notion to the current generation of Americans who reflect on our system of public education which has made the Bill of Rights, literally, unacceptable to a majority of high school graduates (see the annual Purdue reports) who now form the "silent majority"--a phrase which that underestimated wit Richard Nixon took from Homer who used it to describe the dead.
Now one can hear the warning rumble begin: if everyone is allowed to take drugs everyone will and the GNP will decrease, the Commies will stop us from making everyone free, and we shall end up a race of Zombies, passively murmuring "groovie" to one another. Alarming thought. Yet it seems most unlikely that any reasonably sane person will become a drug addict if he knows in advance what addiction is going to be like.
Is everyone reasonably sane? No. Some people will always become drug addicts just as some people will always become alcoholics, and it is just too bad. Every man, however, has the power (and should have the right) to kill himself if he chooses. But since most men don't, they won't be mainliners either. Nevertheless, forbidding people things they like or think they might enjoy only makes them want those things all the more. This psychological insight is, for some mysterious reason, perennially denied our governors.
It is a lucky thing for the American moralist that our country has always existed in a kind of time-vacuum: we have no public memory of anything that happened before last Tuesday. No one in Washington today recalls what happened during the years alcohol was forbidden to the people by a Congress that thought it had a divine mission to stamp out Demon Rum and so launched the greatest crime wave in the country's history, caused thousands of deaths from bad alcohol, and created a general (and persisting) contempt for the laws of the United States.
The same thing is happening today. But the government has learned nothing from past attempts at prohibition, not to mention repression.
Last year when the supply of Mexican marijuana was slightly curtailed by the Feds, the pushers got the kids hooked on heroin and deaths increased dramatically, particularly in New York. Whose fault? Evil men like the Mafiosi? Permissive Dr. Spock? Wild-eyed Dr. Leary? No.
The Government of the United States was responsible for those deaths. The bureaucratic machine has a vested interest in playing cops and robbers. Both the Bureau of Narcotics and the Mafia want strong laws against the sale and use of drugs because if drugs are sold at cost there would be no money in it for anyone.
If there was no money in it for the Mafia, there would be no friendly playground pushers, and addicts would not commit crimes to pay for the next fix. Finally, if there was no money in it, the Bureau of Narcotics would wither away, something they're not about to do without a struggle.
Will anything sensible be done? Of course not. The American people are as devoted to the idea of sin and its punishment as they are to making money--and fighting drugs is nearly as big a business as pushing them. Since the combination of sin and money is irresistible (particularly to the professional politician), the situation will only grow worse.

[The Reckoning]

That's really dumb...

???

NAFTA is already flooding Mexican agriculture with non-tariff American crops. why not grow something that incredibly versatile (including for alternative fuel) that the US couldn't legally compete with. thats what Canada's doing.

http://www.agmrc.org/commodities__products/fiber/industrial_hemp_profile.cfm

$200-250 net profit per acre. uruguay most recently started an industry there.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if you going to legalize the growing of pot

then i suggest the govt to stop subsidizing primary producers who went from organic to pot growers....oh and put a fix price on that shit where it undercuts the competition

[coyotes_geek]

Sorry, but I don't understand this at all. (remember I'm not from the US)
Also don't know what skillets are.

No apology necessary. I didn't notice you weren't from the U.S. and therefore would not have gotten the analogy. Skillet = frying pan. The reference was to a television commercial from several years ago where a guy would hold up an egg and say "this is your brain", then he'd crack it and let it start cooking in the frying pan and say "this is your brain on drugs" which was supposed to scare people into not doing drugs. The point behind the analogy being that we've been trying to curb demand in this country for decades and it doesn't appear to be working.

[boutons_deux]

Legalizing marijuana would be a very adult, serious act by Congress to solve a huge national problem.

There aren't any serious adults left in Congress, so huge national problems are not addressed, never mind solved.

[exstatic]

Eh, instead of trying to eliminate the supply, you should eliminate the demand.

Uh, hundreds of thousands of "demand" customers are already in jail. That shit didn't work either. The users are like the drug lords: take some out of circulation, and more just pop up like magic.

[exstatic]

???

NAFTA is already flooding Mexican agriculture with non-tariff American crops. why not grow something that incredibly versatile (including for alternative fuel) that the US couldn't legally compete with. thats what Canada's doing.

http://www.agmrc.org/commodities__products/fiber/industrial_hemp_profile.cfm

$200-250 net profit per acre. uruguay most recently started an industry there.

Do you have any idea what the per acre profit for ganja is? I'm not sure, but I'll bet it's a FUCK of a lot higher than $250. People won't just voluntarily switch from dope to hemp. You have to knock out the black market profit margin. Then, maybe they grow hemp.

[exstatic]

More seriously, a much better but also slower way would be to teach people how to work with whatever issues they have, because of which they are using drugs, without the drugs and consequently the demand would more or less disappear.
Because making them legal would just reduce the illegal suply, but not the use of drugs.

But in any case, neither will ever happen because it just isn't in the interest of the powers that be.

Pretty naive. People have shitty lives, bad jobs, loveless marriages. It would be nice if we could all sit around and sing Kumbaya, but life isn't like that. Some times, you just need a buzz.

[Pero]

No apology necessary. I didn't notice you weren't from the U.S. and therefore would not have gotten the analogy. Skillet = frying pan. The reference was to a television commercial from several years ago where a guy would hold up an egg and say "this is your brain", then he'd crack it and let it start cooking in the frying pan and say "this is your brain on drugs" which was supposed to scare people into not doing drugs. The point behind the analogy being that we've been trying to curb demand in this country for decades and it doesn't appear to be working.

Ah, thank you. Yes this kind of thing won't work. It's not a good method to constantly remind people of the thing you want them to quit.

[Pero]

Uh, hundreds of thousands of "demand" customers are already in jail. That shit didn't work either.

Putting them in jail isn't reducing the demand IMO. One reason is that probably drugs are still possible to get in jail, and the other than being in jail isn't very good for rehabilitation. Get in, get out the same or worse isn't helpful.



The users are like the drug lords: take some out of circulation, and more just pop up like magic.

Yes, that's why they should be taught to work with their issues. The problem isn't in the drugs or the drug lords. People/society is where the problem is, which is another reason why simply putting people in jail won't help.



Pretty naive. People have shitty lives, bad jobs, loveless marriages. It would be nice if we could all sit around and sing Kumbaya, but life isn't like that. Some times, you just need a buzz.

Why is it naive?
It's true what you say, but that doesn't mean they have to do drugs. Shitty stuff happens to me sometimes, and even more shitty stuff sometimes happens to some people I know, but we're not using drugs because of it (ok, some smoke pot occasionally, but it's not because of problems and I think they'd be just fine without it).

[Death In June]

At the very least, decriminalizing drugs makes a shocking amount of sense. You won't create a black market fueled by violent crime, you won't imprison non-violent offenders to be beaten and raped in prison for what, at it's worst, amounts to a medical condition, you won't let political agenda and poor science guide scheduling policy, you won't ruin lives or tear apart families, you won't send mixed messages by leaving two of the most dangerous drugs heavily advertised and widely available, and it'd be one more right we could reclaim. Legalizing it would make ultimate sense as a source of tax revenue. But, there's just too much money to be made in keeping certain drugs illegal. The CIA are the biggest drug runners in the world, and there's no way they're losing claim to their paperless trail of guns, drugs and money.

[sabar]

...seriously, a much better but also slower way would be to teach people how to work with whatever issues they have, because of which they are using drugs, without the drugs and consequently the demand would more or less disappear....

Sadly, it probably costs less money to just let people take drugs and die than it does to put 100 million idiots through rehab and psyche analysis.

Drug education is already a part of public school curriculum, plus schools have counselors on hand. It hasn't curbed usage any.

About legalization. It sounds great in theory but there's still a problem.

Hard drugs. They'll never be decriminalized and drug cartels will still be killing over heroin and crap. If some poisoned lettuce makes a thousand people sick there is an uproar. Imagine FDA approved crack and heroin on the shelves killing people. It'll never fly with the public. Organized crime isn't going to go away any time soon, regardless of the solution proposed.

The root of the problem are poor minorities in the states who compose almost all the drug users. They get a garbage education and garbage parents and do drugs early and often. The kids are also vulnerable to violent crime and gang recruitment.

They are the ignored problem in America. The giant elephant. No one seems to care about fixing education though, so the vicious cycle will continue.

[MannyIsGod]

They are the ignored problem in America. The giant elephant. No one seems to care about fixing education though, so the vicious cycle will continue.

The nature of politics in the United States is one of fear. Whenever it comes to tackling a problem as big as education there are always compromises and no perfect plan and one side will always exploit those imperfections for political gain even if the plan would help as a whole.

This is the singular reason why we can't fix anything in this country that is actually worth fixing. We're a very short sighted society.

[CosmicCowboy]

Laredo news is reporting that the Zeta's have pulled out of Reynosa and are falling back to Nuevo Laredo and bringing in 700 reinforcements. This is about to get very interesting.

[Death In June]

Imagine FDA approved crack and heroin on the shelves killing people. It'll never fly with the public.Tobacco and alcohol?

[Whisky Dog]

The valley will probably get a bit quieter now, but N Laredo is about to turn into iraq.

BTW, the lessons we should have learned about fighting insurgents on their terrain in Iraq with gunships and such should apply to the idea of heavy US involvement militarily in northern Mexico. Only this time the "insurgents" won't have an ocean between them and attacking, kidnapping, killing Americans.

[symple19]

if Bush was still in office I bet the nookyooler option would be on the table :downspin:

[Pero]

Sadly, it probably costs less money to just let people take drugs and die than it does to put 100 million idiots through rehab and psyche analysis.

Drug education is already a part of public school curriculum, plus schools have counselors on hand. It hasn't curbed usage any.

Drug education? Waste of time. They're bad for you, what else do you need to get educated about? But also, just telling someone something is bad for them usually doesn't work very well. I mean shit, I know very well getting drunk isn't good for health (and possibly other things), and I got dead drunk two weeks ago (accidentaly).

Education about how to work with your problems without resorting to drugs is where time and money should be invested.



Hard drugs. They'll never be decriminalized and drug cartels will still be killing over heroin and crap. If some poisoned lettuce makes a thousand people sick there is an uproar. Imagine FDA approved crack and heroin on the shelves killing people. It'll never fly with the public. Organized crime isn't going to go away any time soon, regardless of the solution proposed.


Haha, no doubt legalizing pot isn't the same as legalizing cocaine. :lol

[Death In June]

Drug education? Waste of time. They're bad for you, what else do you need to get educated about?Well, that's sort of the view point that necessitates drug education. It's never a bad thing to educate the public about the true risk and benefits of drug use. You sustain credibility when you give them an accurate, scientific description of the drugs we use. That's the whole basis behind the FDCA and it's amendments. People are going to use regardless, and educating them prevents the most amount of harm, and ultimately does the most amount of good both socially and economically. You just have to remember that all cures are poisons when used incorrectly or at the wrong dose.

[Pero]

Well, that's sort of the view point that necessitates drug education. It's never a bad thing to educate the public about the true risk and benefits of drug use. You sustain credibility when you give them an accurate, scientific description of the drugs we use. That's the whole basis behind the FDCA and it's amendments. People are going to use regardless, and educating them prevents the most amount of harm, and ultimately does the most amount of good both socially and economically. You just have to remember that all cures are poisons when used incorrectly or at the wrong dose.

So this drug education is about how to do drugs? Like how to needle yourself properly and not accidently take your eye out? :lol

[Pero]

You just have to remember that all cures are poisons when used incorrectly or at the wrong dose.

We're not talking about drugs in the sense of medicine though.

[Death In June]

Yes, even schedule I drugs (contrary to the wording of the controlled substance act) have medicinal value. Recreation itself is a viable therapy for certain disease states. And yes, educating the public and providing drug abusers with sterile needles has significantly decreased the spread of bloodblorne pathogens.

[Pero]

Yes, even schedule I drugs (contrary to the wording of the controlled substance act) have medicinal value.

What?


Recreation itself is a viable therapy for certain disease states.

So? I seriously doubt most people who use drugs use them for therapeutic reasons.



And yes, educating the public and providing drug abusers with sterile needles has significantly decreased the spread of bloodblorne pathogens.


But not the use of drugs.

[mFFL03]

if you think this is bad, just wait till mexico loses in the world cup

oOoOoooooOoOooooooOOoooOOoOOOO

[exstatic]

Why is it naive?
It's true what you say, but that doesn't mean they have to do drugs. Shitty stuff happens to me sometimes, and even more shitty stuff sometimes happens to some people I know, but we're not using drugs because of it (ok, some smoke pot occasionally, but it's not because of problems and I think they'd be just fine without it).

It's naive because it assumes the rational intelligent human being dominates the population. Shit we can't even get people to EAT HEALTHY, and all that fucking junk food is killing them, and you expect them to put down something that fucking feels great?

[admiralsnackbar]

It's naive because it assumes the rational intelligent human being dominates the population. Shit we can't even get people to EAT HEALTHY, and all that fucking junk food is killing them, and you expect them to put down something that fucking feels great?

Isn't that an equally strong argument for some sort of legalization?

[TDMVPDPOY]

u know with this drug war

for every member or leader gets killed, there is always someone waitin in line to take the top job....thats when the new generation of hard cunts come up and try to earn the reputation in the trade.

[Pero]

It's naive because it assumes the rational intelligent human being dominates the population. Shit we can't even get people to EAT HEALTHY, and all that fucking junk food is killing them, and you expect them to put down something that fucking feels great?

LOL! Good point. Something should be done about that too. In fact I think if you want people to stop drugs you have to teach them to live healthier lives in general.

But all these things aren't in the interest of powers that be. There's no profit in health.

[baseline bum]

LOL! Good point. Something should be done about that too. In fact I think if you want people to stop drugs you have to teach them to live healthier lives in general.

But all these things aren't in the interest of powers that be. There's no profit in health.

Why should people stop using drugs? Weed, beer, tequila, acid, and caffeine are all great, as I'd imagine shrooms and peyote are too (never tried them).

[TDMVPDPOY]

Why should people stop using drugs? Weed, beer, tequila, acid, and caffeine are all great, as I'd imagine shrooms and peyote are too (never tried them).

even with all the govt help and shit, ppl dont listen to it...imo theres no point raises taxes on those sort of products.....the only solution is raising the insurance premiums on these type of heavy users....or tell them such services when in need will be avoided cause the service cant handle such a case

[Pero]

Why should people stop using drugs? Weed, beer, tequila, acid, and caffeine are all great, as I'd imagine shrooms and peyote are too (never tried them).

Come on, we're not talking about that kind of thing. But since you mention it, what are they so great for?

[baseline bum]

Come on, we're not talking about that kind of thing. But since you mention it, what are they so great for?

They're fun. What's so great about having a stick up your ass?

[Pero]

They're fun. What's so great about having a stick up your ass?

Well, it's healthier than drugs. :lol
Anyway, what's fun isn't necessarily good for you.

[Death In June]

But not the use of drugs.That's an unrealistic goal. A war on drugs is as futile as a war on terrorism or a war on jealousy.
Well, it's healthier than drugs. :lol
Anyway, what's fun isn't necessarily good for you.McDonalds cheeseburgers aren't healthy for you, but we're not gonnna pass anti-hamburger legislation anytime soon. I'm not even sure which drugs you are referring to, since "drugs aren't healthy" is a blanket statement. Do you mean all drugs, illegal drugs, specific illegal drugs...because every drug you put into your body has some measure of toxicity. Some are just more toxic than others.

[Pero]

That's an unrealistic goal. A war on drugs is as futile as a war on terrorism or a war on jealousy.

I agree with the second part. I don't know about unrealistic... It may be unrealistic because people don't necessarily want to change and even more because the powers that be certainly don't want people to change.



McDonalds cheeseburgers aren't healthy for you, but we're not gonnna pass anti-hamburger legislation anytime soon.

I'm not sure what your point is here? I don't think I said anything about passing some kind of legislation against drugs. That'll never work.
Oh except I did half-joke about wiping out (ab)users to stop the demand. That's kind of moraly questionable though. :lol

Although since you mention it, meat industry is one of the biggest ecological burdens.



I'm not even sure which drugs you are referring to, since "drugs aren't healthy" is a blanket statement. Do you mean all drugs, illegal drugs, specific illegal drugs...because every drug you put into your body has some measure of toxicity. Some are just more toxic than others.

Obviously in a thread that was originally about wars between drug cartels in Mexico I am thinking about illegal aspirin.

[CosmicCowboy]

time to get back on topic.

picture below not for weak stomachs

http://giovanniworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/mexico-drug-wars2.jpg

[Whisky Dog]

Dude that's fucked up. What was the story with that?

[CosmicCowboy]

Dude that's fucked up. What was the story with that?

Shit like that happens all the time. Hell, a couple of days ago they skinned one dudes face and stitched it to a soccer ball.

[Death In June]

Obviously in a thread that was originally about wars between drug cartels in Mexico I am thinking about illegal aspirin.
Why should people stop using drugs? Weed, beer, tequila, acid, and caffeine are all great, as I'd imagine shrooms and peyote are too (never tried them).
Come on, we're not talking about that kind of thing.As far as I know, the Gulf Cartel is in the marijuana trade. But yeah, let's get back on topic. That picture is pretty disturbing.

[Pero]

That picture is pretty disturbing.

No kidding. :wow

[Das Texan]

You couldnt pay me to cross the border right now.

[lil_penny]

There's a video on the net if I can find it where like 5 guys are in a shower area with their body laying on the grounds and 5 neatly lined up heads are sitting on the ground.. I think the zetas were responsible for it.. but yea you could tell they were alive when decapitated.

[Whisky Dog]

Shit like that happens all the time. Hell, a couple of days ago they skinned one dudes face and stitched it to a soccer ball.

Yeah I got that, I didn't know if there was a specific story behind that pic. Like which cartel or group those unfortunate people belonged too. That shit is beyond crazy, bunch of savages.

[Stringer_Bell]

time to get back on topic.

Thanks for that, I too felt like we were steering away from the savage violence and getting into some shitty debate about legalizing drugs.

If it's the Zetas (ex-paramilitary) doing the "savage" stuff, then what are the other guys doing?

[CosmicCowboy]

Thanks for that, I too felt like we were steering away from the savage violence and getting into some shitty debate about legalizing drugs.

If it's the Zetas (ex-paramilitary) doing the "savage" stuff, then what are the other guys doing?

They are all trying to out-savage the savages. All the groups have their own enforcers now.

[Shelly]

Dang, CC--

could you have linked to the picture instead??? Now I'm going to have nightmares

[The Reckoning]

that picture gives me tunnel vision

[oh crap]

Dang, CC--

could you have linked to the picture instead??? Now I'm going to have nightmares

Drug wars are not a pretty thing, my dear.

[The Gemini Method]

That is, well, the truth of what humans can do to each other. We're no different than animals--just better equipped.

I know a friend of mine's uncle was involved in some of the activities down there in Sinaloa, but I don't know to what extent. Found out a few months ago he was gunned down by police after executing a handful of rivals. There is no monetary value to get me to go back to the areas I've been in Mexico. The best, however, was being stuck in Chiapas during the time of Marcos and the trouble that was associated with his group.

[CosmicCowboy]

In my young and stupid days I was involved in a few big deals and almost had one go very bad. We damn near had to shoot our way out of that one. I decided to take that as an omen and find other ways to get my excitement. The money wasn't worth getting killed.

[Pero]

That is, well, the truth of what humans can do to each other. We're no different than animals--just better equipped.


You're wrong, we are different than animals. We're much worse.

[The Gemini Method]

You're wrong, we are different than animals. We're much worse.

Yeah, I know...I just didn't want to say it. Thank you for being braver than I was, Pero.

[Death In June]

You should probably place a warning the next time you're gonna post decapitated heads. Some people may not want to see that shit.

[oh crap]

You should probably place a warning the next time you're gonna post decapitated heads. Some people may not want to see that shit.

OR you may want to resist clicking on a thread about mexican drug wars if you're expecting to see flower fields and bunnys. :rolleyes

[Fpoonsie]

OR you may want to resist clicking on a thread about mexican drug wars if you're expecting to see flower fields and bunnys. :rolleyes

It'd be just as easy to link to that pic instead of posting it, as someone already suggested. Anybody could've been randomly clicking through this thread...

You don't expect to see that ON ST.

[The Gemini Method]

OR you may want to resist clicking on a thread about mexican drug wars if you're expecting to see flower fields and bunnys. :rolleyes

You would think someone that has the word Death as their screen name would be able to tolerate the pictures. Yeah, I know its the name of a band...but still. Sometimes the best thing is to see the reality of it all than to avoid it...

[Death In June]

Look, I'm not offended by the pictures, nor am I for white washing history. But reading a news story, and looking at people that have just been skull fucked are two different things. Give people an option is all I'm saying.

[Stringer_Bell]

In my young and stupid days I was involved in a few big deals and almost had one go very bad. We damn near had to shoot our way out of that one. I decided to take that as an omen and find other ways to get my excitement. The money wasn't worth getting killed.

How much product constitutes a big deal? A few duffel bags? :wow

PS: Maybe a spoiler warning for the people that don't like decapitations, rocket debris, and chopped off limbs?

[Whisky Dog]

In my young and stupid days I was involved in a few big deals and almost had one go very bad. We damn near had to shoot our way out of that one. I decided to take that as an omen and find other ways to get my excitement. The money wasn't worth getting killed.

Jules Winfield posts on ST? This is how you're "wandering the earth"?

[Fat Bones]

http://www.omgsoysauce.com/10432/when-a-mexican-drug-lord-gets-busted/


Check out the cash in those photos; legalize mota, and it all becomes tax revenue.

[CosmicCowboy]

How much product constitutes a big deal? A few duffel bags? :wow

PS: Maybe a spoiler warning for the people that don't like decapitations, rocket debris, and chopped off limbs?

OK, put a spoiler warning and a link.

How big? I thought it was big at the time. 300 key loads. Buy/transport/flip wholesale. Clear 30K for the weekend with the two of us. We had a great cover working. Third trip was almost a rip-off and almost ended very badly. We retired.