Convince me to be a Christian or atheist

[Jacob1983]

Right now, I'm kind of at a dark point of my life. With religion, I'm currently on the fence on whether to give Christianity another shot or if I should just give up on Christianity and religion in general and become an atheist. One of my new year's resolutions for 2010 was to figure this out by the end of the year. In my past especially when I was younger, I was a very loyal and faithful Christian but certain things happened and made me constantly doubt and question Christianity and God. Some of you are probably going to tell me shut the fuck up or stop being a pussy or crying bitch but I'm only asking for you guys to hear me out on this before you judge. Lately, I just don't see the point of beliving in God and Christianity. I think about it a lot too. I will admit that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward God about some things. I just need some input on this. So if you have any compelling arguments for either side, I would like to hear them.

[ALWAYS bet on BLACK]

Jacob, follow your ladder.

[sabar]

Flip a coin, you end up dead and rotting in the end anyways.

[slayermin]

After I watched the entire 'Cosmos' series by Carl Sagan, I am much more comfortable about my beliefs. And no, I'm not an atheist.

[mookie2001]

There's more than christian and atheist


Go and drink 4 bottles of tussin without expectorant

That question is the last thing you'll be concerned with

[mookie2001]

Dp

[Stringer_Bell]

Just be a good person, yo, and don't make people cry and be of service to people that are too weak to have a voice in this busy world. The flying spaghetti monster would appreciate it anyway. Pastafarian ftw! :toast

[Jacob1983]

For me it's either atheist or Christian. Well, I guess maybe agnostic too. It's just kind of a problem because religion is a big deal in my family.

[jaffies]

Convince me to be a Christian or atheist

I'm not saying this will happen,

but when you meet St. Peter in heaven and he asks, "Why do you believe in God?", you'll simply say....

"Spurstalk"?

[Stringer_Bell]

For me it's either atheist or Christian. Well, I guess maybe agnostic too. It's just kind of a problem because religion is a big deal in my family.

Seriously, there's much more to life than making that choice. I'm sure you're family loves you and could give a shit about your dualistic approach. Whatever you're angry at God about, if you're still angry at God it means you believe he exists...so if you feel that way you're only alternative is to rebel against the "will of God." Only you can answer that "will" consists of and how to go about fighting against it.

Also, the message of Christianity, IMO, is humble service. You take care of people, people will take care of you. It's pretty simple, and yea bad things happen, but that's life. Life happens and if you don't like the randomness of it, there's an even greater existential question for you to ponder. I bet you won't even get to asking it though, you obviously care too much. So just relax and figure out how YOU can make whatever situations you don't like better for yourself and those around you. Basically, quit using God or the lack thereof as a crutch and get the fuck up and march. :)

[circ]

whatever helps ya cope man.
what are you hoping to gain by believing in either?

[mookie2001]

Atheists are fucking dickheads though

they spend so much time and energy yapping about how there's not a god and how they're better than christians they might as well have devoted themselves to god in the first place

but protestants are still more annoying

[Jacob1983]

The main reason why I have anger towards God is because of past disappointments. I'm not saying that I prayed for a million dollars or to get laid by a super model. I had realistic prayers that didn't get answered and it pissed me off. I also made a lot of terrible mistakes and choices in my past which have resulted in why I'm having this debate. God could have prevented me from making those bad mistakes and choices in my past or at least given me a sign or warning. I will admit that those choices and mistakes are my fault but I do blame God for letting me make them. And another reason why I'm pissed at God is because I want to know what my purpose is. I know that's a really deep question and that a couple billion people probably have the same question too but I need to know. I need to know what I'm suppose to do in life. My downward spiral started to begin when I got into college. That was the first time I realized what the world is really like because I was sheltered as a kid. I use to be a nice helpful caring person when I was younger but now I'm a negative pessimistic prick.

[Bukefal]

You shouldnt be asking others to convince you. You should think for yourself and what you feel best about, that it will be....

Besides, in believing something, or in god, it doesnt mean you 'have' to be a christian or whatever religion. You don't have to believe like how the bible or church tells you to believe. You can believe in your own way, that's a nice and personal thing.

[mookie2001]

Yeah you already started those threads

the only advice I can give you, not that I'm pushing a big body beamer, is- do what you want to do and let others do what they want to do

it sounds stupid but it's the best advice I ever got, it make take a few years to figure it out but that shit is deep and you can use it in almost any situation

Also the golden rule- spurstalk is not your diary.

[jaffies]

spurstalk is not your diary.

[Jacob1983]

Yeah I wasn't trying to sound like a baby or bitch. I just had to vent. There are a lot of people that say they love God and have a relationship with Him. Sometimes I don't understand that. How can you love someone or something that you cannot see, touch, or hear? This is probably a bad or stupid reason to believe in God but I have only believed in His existence because I have a fear of Hell. Or I guess you could say it's fear that had always been my reason for believing. Anyways, I'm sorry if I shared too much personal shit.

[Scola]

You shouldnt be asking others to convince you. You should think for yourself

[L.I.T]

Religion is not a replacement for personal responsibility.

[mouse]

How old are you?

[Stringer_Bell]

giwzxTNaJNI

Like I said, don't use belief in ANYTHING (religion, government, love) as a crutch. You're equipped with capacity to navigate a world full of a lot of good and a lot of bad, where you stand on that line and how you look out at the rest of the world is YOUR responsibility. Don't pray with words, do it with actions and pray to the people in your life that you care about most and the strangers in your midst that need a help. Go volunteer with people trying to rehabilitate from burns, amputations, etc...and you'll see that God/the flying spaghetti monster/Tao/Clouds didn't BRING THEM to you so you could find a purpose, you were brought to them to make things easier FOR THEM. Cuz all I'm reading from you is "me me me" and LIFE ain't about getting handed the answers...you can't take the meanness of others and disappoints personally, there's a shit load of people on this little rock that died before you without having their wishes granted. But you're still alive, so act like it.

[Scola]

I have only believed in His existence because I have a fear of Hell.


I'm very certain that hell doesn't exist. Dont' worry about it. If you really start thinking about it logically the whole concept falls apart.

[Jacob1983]

Stringer_Bell, that was pretty deep. :toast

[Thompson]

C.S. Lewis was an atheist who became a famous Christian writer. You might try reading some of his works like Mere Christianity and other nonfiction writings. Josh McDowell's Evidence that Demands a Verdict is also one of the more popular Christian apologetic books.

It might take a little longer than a paragraph or two from anyone on this board, but it's an important subject and if you're looking for a logical argument you should look to those who make the best arguments. Logic is not the only component of choosing what you believe, but it's a good place to start.

[Sisk]

I'm not saying this will happen,

but when you meet St. Peter in heaven and he asks, "Why do you believe in God?", you'll simply say....

"Spurstalk"?

:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Sisk]

I'm very certain that hell doesn't exist. Dont' worry about it. If you really start thinking about it logically the whole concept falls apart.

So, do you believe in heaven then?

[Scola]

So, do you believe in heaven then?

No. It's just as illogical as the concept of Hell.

[Pero]

Right now, I'm kind of at a dark point of my life. With religion, I'm currently on the fence on whether to give Christianity another shot or if I should just give up on Christianity and religion in general and become an atheist.

Why are you choosing only between these two?

[Shaolin-Style]

Neither are something you can convince people of. You have faith or you don't pretty much.

Just take your pick based on what you feel.

Do you really believe in God?
Do you just accept the world for what we can explain and pass on the existence of anything supernatural?

I'll just say I don't think it's fair to blame God for not fixing all your troubles, especially if that's one of the reasons you're considering atheism.

[byrontx]

Why the either/or. You have other options. You can just believe there is a God and nobody knows anymore about him/her/it than you do. Then feel free to be spiritual and develop your own tenets of faith for your church of one.

[Sisk]

Why the either/or. You have other options. You can just believe there is a God and nobody knows anymore about him/her/it than you do. Then feel free to be spiritual and develop your own tenets of faith for your church of one.

Theism, ladies and gentlemen. Or Agnostic Theism to be more specific, which is what I am.

As some others have said, live your life well without knowingly or willingly harming others. Do what is right and try to be a moral human being. Pray or don't pray depending how you feel.

At the end of the day, none of us will know until we die... and that's the unfortunate truth.

But I do feel as if you're blaming God instead of blaming yourself. Nothing is handed to you on a silver platter, ever. Sure, people inherit money and have easier lives than others, but it's all about making the best out of your situation.

[baseline bum]

If you have anger and resentment towards God, it's kind of hard to be an atheist. Sounds more like you think God's a prick.

[baseline bum]

At the end of the day, none of us will know until we die... and that's the unfortunate truth.


How will we know anything when we're dead?

[remingtonbo2001]

It appears that your angry with God, based upon decisions which you have previously made, because God "allowed" you to do them. God is a God of free will and will not violate His principle of free will.

Coming from an individual who has made poor choices in the past, it is important to accept responsibility for those decisions. After failed attempts to reconcile my past actions, I opened my heart and gave my life to Christ. Since this moment, my life has significantly changed, and I must say, for the better.

I encourage you to seek Christ and His will for your life. The best the way to start would be to pray. You may also want to read the book of John.

[Supreme_Being]

Just be good. Fuck religion.

[Kamnik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2F

I listened to a lot of George Carlin... not just about religion, he discusses a lot of topics thorugh his rants and I found many of his thoughts eye opening.

[Kamnik]

Btw... I had this debate in my head when I was 10 years old and decided there is no god.

[Drachen]

There's more than christian and atheist


Go and drink 4 bottles of tussin without expectorant

That question is the last thing you'll be concerned with

LOL, not necessarily, about 6 years ago one of my friends whose life was not necessarily on the right track was tripping on Max Strength Coricidin, and a man appeared to him and beckoning him to follow him. That things would be better with him, etc. He quit doing drugs the next day, started studying religions to figure out which he wanted to follow (really really studying). He finally decided that for himself, a personal non-dogmatic approach to God, and spirituality were for him because he wanted a little from choice a and a little from choice b and didn't like all of one religion. I am not saying he is some sort of saint or anything, we still watch stupid movies, he still watches porn, but he is more at peace, going to grad school now to be a social worker (this coming from a guy who hated people except for the 2 or 3 he hung out with regularly).

I don't know if God exists, its something I struggle mightily with. If someone asked me if I believe in God, I wanna say yes (if for no other reason, than for my family, kids especially), but I feel like I would be being intellectually dishonest with myself. My life was extremely similar to his and I have gone through a similar transformation using different means. Though his transformation is far more distinct because he was always disturbed and such, even as a kid. My transformation was only reverting back to the person I was when I was 18, with more experience and wisdom under my belt (I was responsible, smart, etc.).

This started out as a joke about the drugs, but I guess it didnt end up that way. I don't know how this would even help you, but I hope it does.

[scott]

Join the Church of the FSM. It's the only way to truly be ostracized by all religious groups simultaneously, which puts you in a pretty elite category.

Actually, even better – adapt an existing religion and make it your own. Believe in Jesus, but make him a gay black woman. That takes balls. You have balls right?

[tlongII]

I prayed to get laid by a supermodel and I didn't. That was it for me.

[SAGambler]

For me it's either atheist or Christian. Well, I guess maybe agnostic too. It's just kind of a problem because religion is a big deal in my family.

It's just something you have to work out for yourself.

See, religion was a big deal in my family too. Raised by a bible in one hand, a belt in the other. In a church praying every time the church was open.

By the time I was 9 or 10, I figured out something just wasn't right about this shit. Something just didn't compute. So, I kind of got to doing "research" on the Christianity thing. By the time I was 15, I had concluded it was all bullshit. Something to "scare" the masses into being "believers". I was done with it.

I can't tell you what route to take. All I can say is use your brain. Look around and study. Make up your own mind. You may not be able to live with your decision, if someone else makes up your mind for you. And to me, that is what Christianity is about....controlling your mind. Brainwashing if you will. IMO, it's why so many parents are controlling. They are believers. And believers are never happy until they can control everyone around them.

Good luck. You may have to fight some battles if you go against the family. But listening to you now, I think you may have already figured it out, you just want someone to help you over the ledge.

[Drachen]

Btw... I had this debate in my head when I was 10 years old and decided there is no god.


This is part of the reason that I have a hard time believing in God. when I was 7 or 8 and learning about Greek mythology for the first time, specifically about whirlpools and how they thought it was because they angered Poseiden, yet we now know that it is hot water rising, and cold water falling at a fast rate. It seemed to me that they used religion to explain the "unexplainable." I even made the connection to my own religion. It seemed to me that it was just a way to explain the unexplainable, and that eventually when all of the mysteries of each religion are explained, that one too would fall to the status of mythology. At which point a new religion would arise from the void to explain the new mysteries. I did, however shelve that thought until I was 15 when I actively started thinking about it and quit having any interest in religion because of it (deciding I was an atheist 1 week after my confirmation :lol) . One of the reasons that I try to keep up appearances for my kids is that I think I was raised quite well, and I was raised on religion (as well as the encouragement of intellectual curiosity), and I want my kids to have the same chance to choose. I most certainly don't want to belittle it because it would be enforcing my biases upon them instead of allowing them to choose.

[bus driver]

Right now, I'm kind of at a dark point of my life. With religion, I'm currently on the fence on whether to give Christianity another shot or if I should just give up on Christianity and religion in general and become an atheist. One of my new year's resolutions for 2010 was to figure this out by the end of the year. In my past especially when I was younger, I was a very loyal and faithful Christian but certain things happened and made me constantly doubt and question Christianity and God. Some of you are probably going to tell me shut the fuck up or stop being a pussy or crying bitch but I'm only asking for you guys to hear me out on this before you judge. Lately, I just don't see the point of beliving in God and Christianity. I think about it a lot too. I will admit that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward God about some things. I just need some input on this. So if you have any compelling arguments for either side, I would like to hear them.

why because god controls your life?
i think your life is all you(it may be influenced) but ultimately its all you...so do what you feel is right for you

[Death In June]

Shut the fuck up, pussy crying bitch. Spirituality is a personal, individual experience. You can't or shouldn't ask people to make the decision for you. Some people need "god" more than others. There's also a middle ground between the extremes, a "maybe so" or more closer to my heart, a "who gives a fuck?"

[Drachen]

Also, if you admit that you have a lot of anger and resentment towards god, you couldn't possibly consider being athiest.

[marini martini]

LoL @ UTSA having their annual atheist rally yesterday!!!:lol


Let go, let God!!!:toast

[Spurminator]

If you're really serious about it, find a priest or pastor to speak to. You might be surprised how many of them have dealt with the same struggles in their faith.

[clambake]

he answered your prayers.

[Kamnik]

It seemed to me that they used religion to explain the "unexplainable."

This. At least at the start... later on it became a great tool for controling people and keeping them from killing their lords.

[Leetonidas]

Become an atheist. We need more people to laugh at all the adults with imaginary friends.

(Jay kay guys)

[rjv]

you're not going to find any answers here.

[Leetonidas]

Protip: Most people believe in God because they're afraid to go to hell and they know if there is a God and they don't believe in him, no matter how extremely contradictory the bible is and how stupid and illogical organized religion, they're going to hell. So, as is human nature to wanna continue on and be part of something "bigger," so many sheeple just blindly follow religion because they don't wanna go to hell. They "believe" God has "talked" to them when in reality, they're delusional and their mind is playing tricks on them because they want so badly to believe.

Take it for what it's worth, but it's true. Not all people are like this, but I'd say 90% of Americans are.

[mrsmaalox]

The main reason why I have anger towards God is because of past disappointments. I'm not saying that I prayed for a million dollars or to get laid by a super model. I had realistic prayers that didn't get answered and it pissed me off. I also made a lot of terrible mistakes and choices in my past which have resulted in why I'm having this debate. God could have prevented me from making those bad mistakes and choices in my past or at least given me a sign or warning. I will admit that those choices and mistakes are my fault but I do blame God for letting me make them. And another reason why I'm pissed at God is because I want to know what my purpose is. I know that's a really deep question and that a couple billion people probably have the same question too but I need to know. I need to know what I'm suppose to do in life. My downward spiral started to begin when I got into college. That was the first time I realized what the world is really like because I was sheltered as a kid. I use to be a nice helpful caring person when I was younger but now I'm a negative pessimistic prick.

You have some very unreasonable expectations about God/religion. It appears as if you don't have much of an understanding of religion in general and it's place in your life. Maybe you need to do some research and study all religion, not just Christianity. Because until you understand that your religion comes from within you and not from outside, you may as well be searching for a genie in a bottle.

[baseline bum]

Protip: Most people believe in God because they're afraid to go to hell and they know if there is a God and they don't believe in him, no matter how extremely contradictory the bible is and how stupid and illogical organized religion, they're going to hell. So, as is human nature to wanna continue on and be part of something "bigger," so many sheeple just blindly follow religion because they don't wanna go to hell. They "believe" God has "talked" to them when in reality, they're delusional and their mind is playing tricks on them because they want so badly to believe.

Take it for what it's worth, but it's true. Not all people are like this, but I'd say 90% of Americans are.

I don't buy that. I think most people believe in god because most people's parents do, and they've had that belief instilled in them from a young age.

[Leetonidas]

I don't buy that. I think most people believe in god because most people's parents do, and they've had that belief instilled in them from a young age.

This is also true, parent's instill this belief into their kids, but the reason most people choose to continue believe is because they don't wanna go to hell. Almost every single person I've talked to about this gives me that answer. They ask me why I'm an atheist and if I'm afraid to go to hell. And I always get that stupid response; "well, if I believe and I'm wrong then nothing happens, but if I'm right then I'm going to heaven instead of hell."

I don't care if people wanna be religious, that's fine. But IMO, if you only believe in God because you're afraid of what might happen if you don't, that's not a good reason to believe in God.

[Blake]

God is a God of free will and will not violate His principle of free will.


Interesting.

So why does God give free will to people on earth, but take away their free will when they get to Heaven?

[Goliadnative]

Interesting.

So why does God give free will to people on earth, but take away their free will when they get to Heaven?

Possible explanation (http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/free%20will/page5)

[Drachen]

Interesting.

So why does God give free will to people on earth, but take away their free will when they get to Heaven?

Why do you say this. It seems that there is free will in heaven.

[sonic21]

Some people have been raised to believe in God.
For others it's comforting, relieving, consoling, and gives meaning and purpose to life.
Some fear death.

[RandomGuy]

Right now, I'm kind of at a dark point of my life. With religion, I'm currently on the fence on whether to give Christianity another shot or if I should just give up on Christianity and religion in general and become an atheist. One of my new year's resolutions for 2010 was to figure this out by the end of the year. In my past especially when I was younger, I was a very loyal and faithful Christian but certain things happened and made me constantly doubt and question Christianity and God. Some of you are probably going to tell me shut the fuck up or stop being a pussy or crying bitch but I'm only asking for you guys to hear me out on this before you judge. Lately, I just don't see the point of beliving in God and Christianity. I think about it a lot too. I will admit that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward God about some things. I just need some input on this. So if you have any compelling arguments for either side, I would like to hear them.

Why limit yourself to just two options?

God as the many, of the Earth, i.e. Wicca:
http://www.wicca.org/

Islam:
http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/

Hinduism:
http://www.us-hindus.com/

Buddhism:
http://www.buddhaweb.org/

Judism:
http://www.jewfaq.org/index.htm

Hell, (HA!) there is even Scientology, but I will be damned (HA!) if I will post a link to that.

One God (or more depending), and many paths.

[RandomGuy]

Let's start with Judaism, because that's the tab I still have open.

What Do Jews Believe?


This is a far more difficult question than you might expect. Judaism has no dogma, no formal set of beliefs that one must hold to be a Jew. In Judaism, actions are far more important than beliefs, although there is certainly a place for belief within Judaism.

The closest that anyone has ever come to creating a widely-accepted list of Jewish beliefs is Rambam's thirteen principles of faith. Rambam's thirteen principles of faith, which he thought were the minimum requirements of Jewish belief, are:

G-d exists
G-d is one and unique
G-d is incorporeal
G-d is eternal
Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
The words of the prophets are true
Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
There will be no other Torah
G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
The Messiah will come
The dead will be resurrected
As you can see, these are very basic and general principles. Yet as basic as these principles are, the necessity of believing each one of these has been disputed at one time or another, and the liberal movements of Judaism dispute many of these principles.

Unlike many other religions, Judaism does not focus much on abstract cosmological concepts. Although Jews have certainly considered the nature of G-d, man, the universe, life and the afterlife at great length (see Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism), there is no mandated, official, definitive belief on these subjects, outside of the very general concepts discussed above. There is substantial room for personal opinion on all of these matters, because as I said before, Judaism is more concerned about actions than beliefs.

Judaism focuses on relationships: the relationship between G-d and mankind, between G-d and the Jewish people, between the Jewish people and the land of Israel, and between human beings. Our scriptures tell the story of the development of these relationships, from the time of creation, through the creation of the relationship between G-d and Abraham, to the creation of the relationship between G-d and the Jewish people, and forward. The scriptures also specify the mutual obligations created by these relationships, although various movements of Judaism disagree about the nature of these obligations. Some say they are absolute, unchanging laws from G-d (Orthodox); some say they are laws from G-d that change and evolve over time (Conservative); some say that they are guidelines that you can choose whether or not to follow (Reform, Reconstructionist). For more on these distinctions, see Movements of Judaism.

So, what are these actions that Judaism is so concerned about? According to Orthodox Judaism, these actions include 613 commandments given by G-d in the Torah as well as laws instituted by the rabbis and long-standing customs. These actions are discussed in depth on the page regarding Halakhah: Jewish Law and the pages following it.
http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm


.. and you have to give up pork and or shellfish, for the most part.

I would note that before widespread education, the "keepers of knowledge" tended to be priests of one sort or another. Pigs are given to certain easily transmitted diseases to humans, like the trichanosis worm, etc. Given primitive understanding of medicine, I can see how it would be easy to conclude that God didn't like people who ate such things, if they were stricken with nasty things like that.

I personally really doubt that God cares per se about such things, although treating animals ethically is another discussion entirely.

I digress.

On to the next set of beliefs.

[RandomGuy]

Basic Tenets of Wicca-Craft


Wiccan Rede
Harmony
Reincarnation
Power Through Knowledge
Law of Attraction and imagine that
Deity
exists in the center of your star.



Deity: In the center of everything is the God-ess (This is our shorthand for the deity construct and should not be mis-taken to mean a specifically female or male deity construct.). Like Gravity, God-ess is impersonal. It treats everyone alike. It transcends gender and human emotions. Certain ideas cluster around the Deity. We, here, are syncretic monotheists.

Reincarnation: We define Reincarnation as an orderly system of learning through which a being progresses. This is not a tally of "sins" and punishments, nor is it a tally of good deeds. Compare human experiences to academic term papers, eg. a way of learning and improving.

Law of Attraction: What I do to other living creatures, I will draw to myself. Shakespeare called this Measure for Measure. It can also be expressed as "birds of a feather flock together." We do not, however, ascribe to the commonly called Law of Three where what I do comes back to me three times. We have had too much science in our backgrounds as one might think every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
The "Law of Three" that is so commonly touted, as a possible punishment when you are seen to be doing "bad" follows this concept: When you point your finger at another in judgement, anger, etc., you have three fingers pointing back at you. Where is the opportunity for spiritual growth? Your judgement of the person you are pointing one finger at? Or in reflecting upon the three fingers pointing back at you? Worth a moment to consider, eh?

Power Through Knowlege: Power (energy) resides within each living creature. One can learn how to direct power. Whether energy or power feels "good" or "evil" depends upon the sender's intention. In our more enlightened times (remember these tenets have been with us for many, many years), we like to say that this also means self-empowerment through knowledge. The place to grow and learn is, again, within you. The more wisdom (Wicca) you gain, the more you will find self-empowerment.

Harmony: One can perceive rhythms in the patterns of the sun, moon, and seasons. It makes sense to learn those rhythms and to live in harmony with them. This can balance out our lives and help us identify one's personal sense of harmony. Harmony and balance encourage to neither be too good nor too bad, but to find the balance in our lives.

Vertical or Horizontal Spirituality

Wicca -- Reaching towards Deity in spiritual growth is considered vertical.
Craft -- Magic and matters of this world are horizontal (pragmatic).
Achieving growth in both matters is a way to find balance (harmony).
Wicca-Craft

http://www.wicca.org/church/basictenets.html

[RandomGuy]

http://www.religion-cults.com/Islam/islam3.html

THE BASIC "TENETS" OF ISLAM:

The Five Basic Tenets:

1-There is only "one God", Allah, creator of the whole universe, who is just, compassionate, and merciful. The absolute unity and power resides in God. Creator of life and death, the guide to righteous, the friend and protector of the sick and the poor. He chastises eternally the infidels to Hell, and he rewards the faithful with eternal Heaven.

-"Allah", "The God", comes from "Al" ("The"), and "Illah" ("God")... not just "a God", but "The God", for there is only one.

Believe in "Angels", who intercede with Allah for the forgiveness of the faithful.

2- "Muhammad", was the last of the great prophets. Jewish prophets and Jesus were his predecessors.

3- The "Koran", was the last of the sacred books, which include also the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels of Jesus.

4- "Life on Earth", is a test and only a preparation for the eternal life to come. the "faithful" are those who adore Allah, praise the Prophet Muhammad, obey the Koran doing good deeds, and fulfill the 5 pillars of Islam.

The Koran forbids representation of human and animal figures. It denounces usury, games of chance, alcohol, pork... "pride" is a cardinal sin.

5- The "Final Judgment": The faithful will go to eternal Heaven, and the infidels to eternal Hell, with the vividly rewards and punishments recorded in the Koran.

Islam-3
Pillars of Islam

Basic Tenets of Islam:
- 5 Basic Tenets
- 5 Pillars- The Hajj: Kiss the "Kaaba", the Mosque
- 5 Social Doctrines: Women... "Holy War" (a "jihad")

The Hajj, Masjid Al Haram, Makkah, Arabia

Art Gallery of Islam


THE BASIC "TENETS" OF ISLAM:

The basic tenets of Islam have some similarities to those "monotheistic" of the small group near Mecca, called the "Hanifs or Penitents", and to those of the Bible:
1- Five "basic tenets".
2- Five "pillars of Islam":
3- Five "social doctrines".

The Five Basic Tenets:

1-There is only "one God", Allah, creator of the whole universe, who is just, compassionate, and merciful. The absolute unity and power resides in God. Creator of life and death, the guide to righteous, the friend and protector of the sick and the poor. He chastises eternally the infidels to Hell, and he rewards the faithful with eternal Heaven.

-"Allah", "The God", comes from "Al" ("The"), and "Illah" ("God")... not just "a God", but "The God", for there is only one.

Believe in "Angels", who intercede with Allah for the forgiveness of the faithful.

2- "Muhammad", was the last of the great prophets. Jewish prophets and Jesus were his predecessors.

3- The "Koran", was the last of the sacred books, which include also the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels of Jesus.

4- "Life on Earth", is a test and only a preparation for the eternal life to come. the "faithful" are those who adore Allah, praise the Prophet Muhammad, obey the Koran doing good deeds, and fulfill the 5 pillars of Islam.

The Koran forbids representation of human and animal figures. It denounces usury, games of chance, alcohol, pork... "pride" is a cardinal sin.

5- The "Final Judgment": The faithful will go to eternal Heaven, and the infidels to eternal Hell, with the vividly rewards and punishments recorded in the Koran.

This is how the life of the faithful is described in the Koran, Sura 2:

... "True piety is this: To believe in God, and the Last Day, the angels and the Book, and the prophets, to give one's substance however cherished to kinsmen and orphans, the needy, the traveler, the beggars, and to ransom the slave, to perform prayers, and to pay the alms, and they who fulfill the covenant and endure with fortitude, misfortune, hardships and peril, these are they who are true in their faith, these are the truly God-fearing".

The "Five Pillars" of Islam:

1- Profession of Faith, Shahadah, "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet".
2- "Prayer": "Five times a day"... "Fridays"... The "Salat":
3- "Give alms", "Zakat"
4- "Fasting", "Sawm", on the month of "Ramadan"
5- "Pilgrimage to Mecca", the "Hajj"



Again with the pork thing.

That and it would probably surprise a few here that muslims study the teachings of Jesus...

[RandomGuy]

Hinduism is unique among the great Religions of the world in that it had no single founder or Messiah nor a single book as a source but grew gradually over a period of several thousand years. The Hindu society is the product of many races and many cultures with several forms of practice. It evolved out of the varying faiths in different groups of the community as it was absorbing and assimilating all the diversified social movements and cultural practices of India. Consequently, it does not have a single Holy book as a source to guide all, like a Bible or Koran or Dhammapadam. Most of their beliefs and practices are based on the teachings of the Vedas, Agamas, Upanishads and several books written, based on these texts. Large portions of these texts are lost.


Hindus believe that their religion is without beginning, even preceding the creation of human race and the creation of the universe. They believe that creation of the universe and its lives are without beginning or end and is a continuous process, a cycle of creation and dissolution. The Vedas are the very breath of this process with which Lord Brahma, the creator, creates the universe and all its lives. The name "Hindu" is said to have been derived from the name given by the Western and Persian scholars to the people settled on the River Sindhu. Some believe the name has a much older origin in the scriptures. Scholars often referred to this as the Brahmanical faith. Hindus called it "Vaideeha Dharma" or "Sanathana Dharma". Philosophers often do not want to refer to it as a mere religion, as that will narrow it down to a blind faith of prayers to God. It permits free thinking, questioning and reasoning. It allows both philosophy and rituals. It accepts even atheists and agnostics as it accepts various forms of worship.

" He (The Truth) who cannot even be heard of by many, whom many, even hearing, do not know, wondrous is he (the person) who can teach (The Truth) and skilful is he (the person) who finds (The Truth) and wondrous is he (the person) who knows, even when instructed otherwise. "



More bits follow that basic lesson, in an overview fashion:

http://www.bnaiyer.com/Hindu-Part-1/bas-01.html

[RandomGuy]

Essentials of Buddhism

Four Noble Truths

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path

Noble Eightfold Path


Three Qualities Eightfold Path
Wisdom (panna)
Right View Right Thought

Morality (sila)
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood

Meditation (samadhi)
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Contemplation

Three Characteristics of Existence

1. Transiency (anicca)
2. Sorrow (dukkha)
3. Selflessness (anatta)

Hindrances

1. Sensuous lust
2. Aversion and ill will
3. Sloth and torpor
4. Restlessness and worry
5. Sceptical doubt

Factors of Enlightenment

1. Mindfulness
2. Investigation
3. Energy
4. Rapture
5. Tranquillity
6. Concentration
7. Equanimity
http://www.buddhaweb.org/

Probably the most succinct of religions... :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As for not getting what you want from prayer christianity is not the way if you want that. Its been called a slave morality for very good reason. Everytime something good happens to you, you are supposed to give credit to the diety. Everytime something bad happens, you are supposed to admit that you are lesser and do not understand the mind of god and look for some benefit or lesson out of it. "The lord works in myserious ways' is the cliche. Its the behavior expected of a slavelike subordinate.

Personally, I find christianity to be untenable. Once I reject Jonah, Mishach, Shadrach and Abendego, Jesus and the pigs et al, I find it intellectually as well as morally bankrupt to pick and choose which tenants I like and those I do not. For example the Levites were wrong about pork and animal sacrifice supposedly yet they are quoted constantly when it concerns homosexuality. To me you cannot have it both ways.

Now don't get me wrong. From an ethical standpoint what Jesus supposedly did was a pretty good. I think it wasn't in the best of taste when he starts his 'gnashing of teeth' angry rhetoric anytime someone doesn't listen to him but by and large his ethic is a good one. I find it unfortunate that he never got to write his kabala and instead John and Paul did.

Many tenants of what we attribute to christianty were not stated by christ or at least not quoted by him. John was the one that said god sacrificed him and its Paul over and over again doing his post tax career salesman job that comes up with things like the supremacy of the state in talking to the Romans. Later Byzantine emperors and murderous smallminded idiots like Cyril in the 5th century, tell us what the nature of God is and the Trinity as well as what books are acceptable to make up what is now known as the Bible. Heck even Augustine believed in the Olympic gods. Read it in City of God if you dont believe me.

At the end of the day though you are looking to others to find out what it is true and what is not when it comes to the spiritual. Thats not a good sign or at least a path you had best be careful. Learn yourself or be led by the nose.

[RandomGuy]

As for not getting what you want from prayer christianity is not the way if you want that. Its been called a slave morality for very good reason. Everytime something good happens to you, you are supposed to give credit to the diety. Everytime something bad happens, you are supposed to admit that you are lesser and do not understand the mind of god and look for some benefit or lesson out of it. "The lord works in myserious ways' is the cliche. Its the behavior expected of a slavelike subordinate.

Personally, I find christianity to be untenable. Once I reject Jonah, Mishach, Shadrach and Abendego, Jesus and the pigs et al, I find it intellectually as well as morally bankrupt to pick and choose which tenants I like and those I do not. For example the Levites were wrong about pork and animal sacrifice supposedly yet they are quoted constantly when it concerns homosexuality. To me you cannot have it both ways.

Now don't get me wrong. From an ethical standpoint what Jesus supposedly did was a pretty good. I think it wasn't in the best of taste when he starts his 'gnashing of teeth' angry rhetoric anytime someone doesn't listen to him but by and large his ethic is a good one. I find it unfortunate that he never got to write his kabala and instead John and Paul did.

Many tenants of what we attribute to christianty were not stated by christ or at least not quoted by him. John was the one that said god sacrificed him and its Paul over and over again doing his post tax career salesman job that comes up with things like the supremacy of the state in talking to the Romans. Later Byzantine emperors and murderous smallminded idiots like Cyril in the 5th century, tell us what the nature of God is and the Trinity as well as what books are acceptable to make up what is now known as the Bible. Heck even Augustine believed in the Olympic gods. Read it in City of God if you dont believe me.

At the end of the day though you are looking to others to find out what it is true and what is not when it comes to the spiritual. Thats not a good sign or at least a path you had best be careful. Learn yourself or be led by the nose.

+1

I'm glad that I am not the only one who finds the Bible a bit incoherent in places.

Personally I find the whole religion thing to be a bit muddled. "Christian" encompasses Mormons, Catholics, Anglicans, Pentecostals, etc. (yeah, I know some don't consider others real "Christians"), so then one is left with which flavor to pick, even if one decides that one flavor is the right one.

The risk of being wrong, according to many religions, is somewhat unpleasant to put it mildly :devil, so pick correctly...

[Jacob1983]

I'm not asking for a genie in a bottle or anything physical. I'm asking for something that I cannot touch, feel, or see. All I'm asking for is answers from God. If God has so much power then it shouldn't be a problem. I want a sign or something. I want to have a conversation with God in which he answers back to me. I don't see why that's so bad or wrong to ask for. It's not like I'm asking for a million dollars or world peace.

[RandomGuy]

I'm not asking for a genie in a bottle or anything physical. I'm asking for something that I cannot touch, feel, or see. All I'm asking for is answers from God. If God has so much power then it shouldn't be a problem. I want a sign or something. I want to have a conversation with God in which he answers back to me. I don't see why that's so bad or wrong to ask for. It's not like I'm asking for a million dollars or world peace.

Perhaps God is speaking to you through us.

I am reminded of the old joke about the guy who is trapped on his roof in a flood and prays to God to save him.

A dude in a boat comes by, but the guy on roof waves him off, saying "God will save me."

The water gets a bit higher, and another boat comes by... the guy on the roof waves that off, "God will save me."

The water gets to the lower part of the roof and a helicopter comes by... "no, god will save me."

The water washes away the house, the guy drowns, and his soul ends up at the pearly gates.

"St. Peter, why didn't God save me?"

"Shit kid, we sent you two boats and a helicopter"

How do you know that we aren't the medium that God has chosen to answer you with?

Any being capable of creating a universe as massive as ours can surely trigger a few neurons in my brain to make me say/type things, and arrange for my lunch break to coincide with your question.

[Blake]

Why do you say this. It seems that there is free will in heaven.

Not really. If there is no sin in Heaven, then you are put in a place where the same free will you had on Earth has been taken away.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not asking for a genie in a bottle or anything physical. I'm asking for something that I cannot touch, feel, or see. All I'm asking for is answers from God. If God has so much power then it shouldn't be a problem. I want a sign or something. I want to have a conversation with God in which he answers back to me. I don't see why that's so bad or wrong to ask for. It's not like I'm asking for a million dollars or world peace.

This raises a metaphysical question. Have you ever experienced anything that was not of the 5 senses?

Most everyone wants to commune with god. Its the very reason why religious institutions get so much play. I personally have not met anyone who I believe truly has nor have I myself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not really. If there is no sin in Heaven, then you are put in a place where the same free will you had on Earth has been taken away.

Logically this is BS. If Jesus was free of sin then by this argument he did not have free will. This is the slave morality shit I am talking about.

You are a bad person by your very nature and in order to achieve bliss you have to become that which you are not? Enjoy your self-loathing.

I always get a kick out of people saying they know the nature of hokey ass shit like heaven or the will of god.

[Drachen]

Not really. If there is no sin in Heaven, then you are put in a place where the same free will you had on Earth has been taken away.

Well how did lucifer get away with it? Because there is an example of it, I would say that there is free will in heaven, but there is no sin because everyone likes the place so much that they don't feel the need to sin.

[Summers]

Jacob, you've already made your decision but because of your family,social pressure from your circle of friends, and being brought up to fear and pity atheists, it's a hard thing to admit to yourself. Once you do, though, you won't have the angst that you do trying to believe in something that doesn't make sense to you.

[Blake]

Well how did lucifer get away with it? Because there is an example of it, I would say that there is free will in heaven, but there is no sin because everyone likes the place so much that they don't feel the need to sin.

:lol Apparently Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels didn't like it so much.

[Drachen]

:lol Apparently Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels didn't like it so much.


Agreed, but the key here is they were allowed to do it just like humans. You have free will, but you must suffer, or enjoy the consequences of your use of that free will.

[Blake]

Agreed, but the key here is they were allowed to do it just like humans. You have free will, but you must suffer, or enjoy the consequences of your use of that free will.

then that goes against the "promise" of eternal life by believing in Jesus in this mortal life.

[Drachen]

then that goes against the "promise" of eternal life by believing in Jesus in this mortal life.

Good point, to which I have no rebuttal. There is a contradiction for ya.

[xellos88330]

Noone can really tell you what to do. You need to follow your own direction.

It is my personal belief that if you live a moral and just life, you will be fine regardless of what you believe in. I, for one, would find it hard to believe that God could ignore an atheist if he/she still lived their lives the way he intended. As far as the believing if God exists or not, would be answered at the gates.

[Skywalker]

Right now, I'm kind of at a dark point of my life.

In my past especially when I was younger, I was a very loyal and faithful Christian but certain things happened and made me constantly doubt and question Christianity and God.

True loyalty and faith survive all.
Still waters are no test.
You realize the darkness and are seeking the light.
This speaks to the path you wish to follow.


I just don't see the point of believing in God and Christianity. I think about it a lot too. I will admit that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward God about some things.

There is no point in believing in something that does not align with your spiritual goals.

These are what you must seek to establish.
Only then, will your path have more clarity.

If you are on the right path, the anger you feel will be dissipated.


The main reason why I have anger towards God is because of past disappointments. I had realistic prayers that didn't get answered and it pissed me off. I also made a lot of terrible mistakes and choices in my past which have resulted in why I'm having this debate. God could have prevented me from making those bad mistakes and choices in my past or at least given me a sign or warning. I will admit that those choices and mistakes are my fault but I do blame God for letting me make them. And another reason why I'm pissed at God is because I want to know what my purpose is. That was the first time I realized what the world is really like because I was sheltered as a kid. I use to be a nice helpful caring person when I was younger but now I'm a negative pessimistic prick.

God does not choose your path. The path is layed out before us. We choose to follow or not to follow.

What do you want your ultimate purpose to be?

The world is filled with reckless fools with hardened hearts.

The wise will not be initiated.


There are a lot of people that say they love God and have a relationship with Him. Sometimes I don't understand that. How can you love someone or something that you cannot see, touch, or hear? This is probably a bad or stupid reason to believe in God but I have only believed in His existence because I have a fear of Hell. Or I guess you could say it's fear that had always been my reason for believing.

Observe what people do, not what they say.
Only one's actions speak to their true nature.

One cannot follow the path of enlightenment whilst consumed by fear.
Do not be afraid of death, but instead seek to truly live.

But do not be fooled by what 'truly live' means to the masses.

The presence of the divine light will make itself known to those that walk the path.


All I'm asking for is answers from God. If God has so much power then it shouldn't be a problem. I want a sign or something. I want to have a conversation with God in which he answers back to me.


Sometimes, one must remove their eyes and ears from the equation in order to see and hear clearly.

Good luck with your journey.

[oh crap]

True loyalty and faith survive all.
Still waters are no test.
You realize the darkness and are seeking the light.
This speaks to the path you wish to follow.



There is no point in believing in something that does not align with your spiritual goals.

These are what you must seek to establish.
Only then, will your path have more clarity.

If you are on the right path, the anger you feel will be dissipated.



God does not choose your path. The path is layed out before us. We choose to follow or not to follow.

What do you want your ultimate purpose to be?

The world is filled with reckless fools with hardened hearts.

The wise will not be initiated.



Observe what people do, not what they say.
Only one's actions speak to their true nature.

One cannot follow the path of enlightenment whilst consumed by fear.
Do not be afraid of death, but instead seek to truly live.

But do not be fooled by what 'truly live' means to the masses.

The presence of the divine light will make itself known to those that walk the path.




Sometimes, one must remove their eyes and ears from the equation in order to see and hear clearly.

Good luck with your journey.

:lmao

who knew angel_luv had trolls

[word]

Francis Crick, co-discoverer of human DNA, said that they calculated the possibility man evolved from primordial soup is 1 in 10 to the 265th power.

Thanks for playing.

Oh, and Charles Darwin converted to Catholicism toward the end of his life.

[baseline bum]

Oh, and Charles Darwin converted to Catholicism toward the end of his life.

Bullshit

[Nash2TimeMVp]

Darwin remained close friends with the vicar (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Vicar#Anglican) of Downe, John Innes (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/John_Brodie-Innes), and continued to play a leading part in the parish work of the church,[152] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-151) but from around 1849 would go for a walk on Sundays while his family attended church.[142] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-jvw41-141) He considered it "absurd to doubt that a man might be an ardent theist and an evolutionist"[153] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-Fordyce-152)[154] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-spencer-153) and, though reticent about his religious views, in 1879 he wrote that "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Agnosticism) would be the most correct description of my state of mind."[81] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-Belief-80)[153] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-Fordyce-152)
The "Lady Hope Story (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Elizabeth_Hope#The_Lady_Hope_story)", published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were repudiated by Darwin's children and have been dismissed as false by historians.[155] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-154) His last words were to his family, telling Emma "I am not the least afraid of death – Remember what a good wife you have been to me – Tell all my children to remember how good they have been to me", then while she rested, he repeatedly told Henrietta and Francis "It's almost worth while to be sick to be nursed by you".[156] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-155)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Francis Crick, co-discoverer of human DNA, said that they calculated the possibility man evolved from primordial soup is 1 in 10 to the 265th power.

Thanks for playing.

Oh, and Charles Darwin converted to Catholicism toward the end of his life.

Crick also attributed it to aliens.

[baseline bum]

The bullshit Darwin urban legend about his conversion on his deathbed is the reason Richard Dawkins has said he wants his death to be taped, so no one can ever trash his name the same way.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The bullshit Darwin urban legend about his conversion on his deathbed is the reason Richard Dawkins has said he wants his death to be taped, so no one can ever trash his name the same way.

The pope accepted evolution as true quite some time ago anyway.

[TheManFromAcme]

After I watched the entire 'Cosmos' series by Carl Sagan, I am much more comfortable about my beliefs. And no, I'm not an atheist.

...but Carl Sagan was

[ploto]

First, it is normal to question, especially at your age. You may have been raised to think you should never doubt, but even Mother Teresa did.

What it seems you might be questioning is not so much whether you believe IN God as it is what that faith means. You seem to have a notion that God should stop you from doing the wrong thing or that He should directly tell you what to do, but it is not that simple.

I do not see a person who has come to believe that God does not exist. I see, instead, a person growing into a more mature understanding of what faith really means and dealing with the growing pains that come along with it. I think maybe you are angry that it is not what you were told as a child. You thought that faith made everything easy and that you would know what God always wants, but you won't. Maybe no one ever told you that.


When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

[Jacob1983]

I probably shouldn't have included atheist in the choices. It should have been Christian or agnostic or maybe a non-practicing Christian. When I was younger, the reasons for believing in God and following him for me were being afraid of going to Hell, it was tradition, and my conscience made me think it was the right thing to do.
I guess maybe I could be asking for too much. Wanting to know the "why" might just be too much for God to give me. But I still want to know the "why".

[oh crap]

crofl. This guy is serious, I thought this was a drunk thread.

[Blake]

God does not choose your path. The path is layed out before us.

good one, luke

[ploto]

When I was younger, the reasons for believing in God and following him for me were being afraid of going to Hell, it was tradition, and my conscience made me think it was the right thing to do.

Maybe, you could think about a church that is more positive than that- not a hellfire and damnation kind, but more that is about love and mercy, than about fear.


But I still want to know the "why".
Nothing wrong with wondering that.

St. Augustine: "Doubt is but another element of faith."

[Blake]

Francis Crick, co-discoverer of human DNA, said that they calculated the possibility man evolved from primordial soup is 1 in 10 to the 265th power.

Thanks for playing.

did Crick come up with another possibility?


Oh, and Charles Darwin converted to Catholicism toward the end of his life.

so you think that evolution and christianity/catholicism are not compatible?

[mookie2001]

Ohh Darwin?

Well sign me up

[word]

did Crick come up with another possibility?



so you think that evolution and christianity/catholicism are not compatible?

No. They are. Both Augustine and Acquinas addressed evolution as being compatible with the faith. Only the religious fundamentalists believe they aren't. Any study of the christian faith or at least the Catholic faith, tells you that genesis is not to be taken literally, as much of the Bible is not.

God did not create the universe, earth, and man....in six 'earth' days.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No. They are. Both Augustine and Acquinas addressed evolution as being compatible with the faith. Only the religious fundamentalists believe they aren't. Any study of the christian faith or at least the Catholic faith, tells you that genesis is not to be taken literally, as much of the Bible is not.

God did not create the universe, earth, and man....in six 'earth' days.

Augustine lived in the 4th century. Aquinas in the 13th century. Neither of them addressed evolution as it was conceived in the 19th century.

Augustine believed in the Olympic gods ie Jupiter and his thunderbolts and Aquinas believed that whatever the 13th century church said was the truth. IE the earth was the center of the universe etc. Neither of them addressed evolution as it was before their time and they were too backwards to accept it if it was not.

[word]

Augustine lived in the 4th century. Aquinas in the 13th century. Neither of them addressed evolution as it was conceived in the 19th century.



What a meaningless statement. Newton didn't address physics as it was conceived in the 20th century either.

[Drachen]

...but Carl Sagan was

Carl Sagan was most certainly not an atheist. He states it categorically in "Demon Haunted World"

[Drachen]

Maybe, you could think about a church that is more positive than that- not a hellfire and damnation kind, but more that is about love and mercy, than about fear.


Nothing wrong with wondering that.

St. Augustine: "Doubt is but another element of faith."

When I was going to Catholic school as a child, I had some questions about some of the tenets that I was being taught in religion class. My teacher, and priest actually encouraged me to question my faith. They said that when you question your faith that it will eventually serve to strengthen your faith.

Even though I am an atheist, I don't have a problem with others being of whatever religion, as long as it does something good for them, great, do that. I hope that helps.

[word]

My guess is, it doesn't.

[Blake]

No. They are. Both Augustine and Acquinas addressed evolution as being compatible with the faith. Only the religious fundamentalists believe they aren't. Any study of the christian faith or at least the Catholic faith, tells you that genesis is not to be taken literally, as much of the Bible is not.

God did not create the universe, earth, and man....in six 'earth' days.

then I'm not sure what your point of "the possibility man evolved from primordial soup is 1 in 10 to the 265th power. Thanks for playing. oh, and Darwin was Catholic" is.

Also, specifically, which parts of the Bible do you think should be taken literally?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What a meaningless statement. Newton didn't address physics as it was conceived in the 20th century either.

Do you just make shit up as you go along?

Physics in the form of classical mechanics was invented by Newton.

[admiralsnackbar]

Do you just make shit up as you go along?

Physics in the form of classical mechanics was invented by Newton.

He may have systematized things, but he stood "on the shoulders of giants," for a reason.

[exstatic]

Jacob, have you ever explored any other religions or philosophies? Your belief spectrum shouldn't only limited to hard core Christianity or Atheism. You should look into some of the Eastern stuff. I find Taoism and Nichiren (Lotus Flower) Buddhism to be fascinating. Taoists are just sort of amused by it all, especially the Confused Confucianists, pretty much the Southern Baptists of the Far East.

[iManu]

Everyone is agnostic unless they're psychotic or mentally handicapped because the nature of the limits of our brain for information at once. I am a Jedi, but I call myself "Baha'i Jedi."

This is the best religion.


:soapbox:

[Scola]

The default position is Atheism and the burden of proof lies with Religions. They make extreme claims and offer no proof to back it up. "Faith" is not proof, its a cop-out excuse equivalent to saying "its Magic". Believing in a God is on the same level as believing in ghosts and fairies. They're explanations made up to explain stuff.

I normallly don't care what people believe in, but then they start forcing the sane people to live by their rules... I find it hilarious that some Christians make fun of Scientology and regard their own Religions as being so much better when they're both on the same level of Hilarity.

This is even more frustrating because about 90% of my family is very religious >.>

[Kamnik]

The default position is Atheism and the burden of proof lies with Religions. They make extreme claims and offer no proof to back it up. "Faith" is not proof, its a cop-out excuse equivalent to saying "its Magic". Believing in a God is on the same level as believing in ghosts and fairies. They're explanations made up to explain stuff.



Word!

[Shaolin-Style]

The default position is Atheism and the burden of proof lies with Religions. They make extreme claims and offer no proof to back it up. "Faith" is not proof, its a cop-out excuse equivalent to saying "its Magic". Believing in a God is on the same level as believing in ghosts and fairies. They're explanations made up to explain stuff.


Proof for either argument comes with dying. I think it's pretty pompous to relate religion to blatantly fictitious subject matter though.

[baseline bum]

Proof for either argument comes with dying. I think it's pretty pompous to relate religion to blatantly fictitious subject matter though.

How is this ridiculous idea repeated over and over? When you're dead and an inanimate object, how can anything be proved to you?

[Pero]

How is this ridiculous idea repeated over and over? When you're dead and an inanimate object, how can anything be proved to you?

You have a point but you on the other hand are assuming that all you are is this physical body.

[baseline bum]

You have a point but you on the other hand are assuming that all you are is this physical body.

No I'm not. The fact that if there is no afterlife (whatever that's supposed to mean) then you wouldn't know invalidates the idea that one definitely finds out the existence or nonexistence of god when he dies.

[remingtonbo2001]

LoL @ UTSA having their annual atheist rally yesterday!!!:lol


Let go, let God!!!:toast

:tu That's what I'm talking about!

[Pero]

No I'm not. The fact that if there is no afterlife (whatever that's supposed to mean) then you wouldn't know invalidates the idea that one definitely finds out the existence or nonexistence of god when he dies.

Ah got it now, you're right.

[RandomGuy]

Jacob, have you ever explored any other religions or philosophies? Your belief spectrum shouldn't only limited to hard core Christianity or Atheism. You should look into some of the Eastern stuff. I find Taoism and Nichiren (Lotus Flower) Buddhism to be fascinating. Taoists are just sort of amused by it all, especially the Confused Confucianists, pretty much the Southern Baptists of the Far East.

(page 3.. halfway down) :reading

:)

[RandomGuy]

You have a point but you on the other hand are assuming that all you are is this physical body.

Remember, your phsyical body exists in all 11 dimensions.

and

all bits of matter (atoms, subatomic particles, etc) in the universe are connected to each other in some fashion on some extra-dimensional way, generally termed a "membrane". This is the membrane in "M" theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

Think about the metaphysical implications of THAT.

[TheManFromAcme]

Don't find religion. Find a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Your trials and tribulations (only you know what they are) are a test of faith.
The church I attend makes 2 trecks a month to hospitals and senior assisted homes and visit dying patients who are on their death beds. I can't tell you how many times (100's) we have encountered people who live agnostic/atheistic lives yet a huge percentage of them reach out at the end to accept the Lord. Never fails. In life they beated their chests and were proud in denying Jesus Christ but knew in their hearts the the Lord was calling them. And no, it wasn't their death trance. They were totally cognizant of what they had done in life. Trust me in this.

Don't be fooled by the youth of today or young adults these days who claim pride in the denial of Christ all because some dummy at a college standing behind a platform tells them to read this science book. Being agnostic and a atheist is "popular" right now and tragically even 7, 8 and 9 year olds find it "cool" all because of their idiotic parents.

The Bible talks about this and in the last days there will be masses denying him.
Don't get caught up man. Things will work out. Just extend your hand out and the Lord will take your hand. Just do me a favor; Ignore the ones in here who put all their creedence in science. They're fools.

Peace man.

[LnGrrrR]

God gives free cookies in Heaven, I heard. So... that's something.

[baseline bum]

Better yet, don't listen to any jackass ranting about the last days.

[sonic21]

i heard you spend eternity playing harps in heaven.

is this true?

[Blake]

I think it's pretty pompous to relate religion to blatantly fictitious subject matter though.

You mean blatantly fictitious subject matter like the book of Genesis?

[Blake]

Don't find religion. Find a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Your trials and tribulations (only you know what they are) are a test of faith.


you know who is really freaking lucky?

David Robinson. Best of both worlds.

Dude was born a freak of nature, has everything handed to him basically his whole life to the point of him being a millionaire because he could dunk and block shots and now will surely get a huge pile of treasure of Heaven because he's a great Christian......

It's not fair.

[Blake]

God gives free cookies in Heaven, I heard. So... that's something.

do they have raisins?

I don't like raisins.

[Dex]

Free wine and crackers on Sunday.

[TheManFromAcme]

You DO want to hear rants about the last days.
"Surely, I come quickly"" - Revelations 22:20

God bless to all. :toast

[Blake]

Free wine and crackers on Sunday.

In the Baptist church, it's grape juice and only during Christmas or Easter services....

:depressed

[Blake]

"Surely, I come quickly"" - Revelations 22:20



THATS WHAT SHE SAID


sorry. couldnt hold back.

[TheManFromAcme]

you know who is really freaking lucky?

David Robinson. Best of both worlds.

Dude was born a freak of nature, has everything handed to him basically his whole life to the point of him being a millionaire because he could dunk and block shots and now will surely get a huge pile of treasure of Heaven because he's a great Christian......

It's not fair.

D.R. is a good man. Spurs aside, I have had the honor in meeting a fellow brother in Christ. The man can serve it up and I've learned much from him during his sermons at our Church.

If you know anyting about D.R., he is the most grounded person you will ever know. Money is not that important to him. Hard to imagine that because he has it now but he's a pretty humble guy.

Money is not evil. The love of it and how you acquire it is what makes it evil.
Not sure if your taking a shot at David but if you are, to each his own. :toast

[TheManFromAcme]

THATS WHAT SHE SAID


sorry. couldnt hold back.

If it makes you happy, go ahead.

[Sportcamper]

http://mylaz.com/images/GodLovesYouThisMuch.jpg

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[TheManFromAcme]

http://mylaz.com/images/GodLovesYouThisMuch.jpg

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

:tu

Amen

[Leetonidas]

You should become a follower of Mehrunes Dagon and join the Mythic Dawn. The dawn is breaking; greet the new day, brother.

[RandomGuy]

I think it's pretty pompous to relate religion to blatantly fictitious subject matter [like Scientology] though.

Scientology is a religion, like it or not.

[TheManFromAcme]

Scientology is a religion, like it or not.

Your right. It is a religion. :rolleyes
Hubbard was a normal dude. But don't worry, his spirit now resides in another galaxy and has made room for Cruise and Travolta. :downspin:

[Blake]

If you know anyting about D.R., he is the most grounded person you will ever know. Money is not that important to him. Hard to imagine that because he has it now but he's a pretty humble guy.

Money is important enough for him to keep millions of it for himself and live the good life out at the Dominions, complete with bedroom windows that have water coming down to simulate rain.


Money is not evil. The love of it and how you acquire it is what makes it evil.
Not sure if your taking a shot at David but if you are, to each his own. :toast

David Robinson is a great guy, no question.

I'm taking a shot at the Christian justification of wealth as well as the bias God clearly shows in blessing some more than others on Earth.

[Blake]

If it makes you happy, go ahead.

THATS WHAT SHE SAID

dang it. I watch way too many Office reruns.

[Blake]

http://mylaz.com/images/GodLovesYouThisMuch.jpg

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

God loved his Son so much that he allowed him to be brutally tortured and murdered....

and if you don't believe in him, many say you will be brutally tortured for eternity.

What a kind and loving Father.

[Blake]

Your right. It is a religion. :rolleyes
Hubbard was a normal dude. But don't worry, his spirit now resides in another galaxy and has made room for Cruise and Travolta. :downspin:

John writing the book of Revelation is real normal.

[TheManFromAcme]

Keep it up Blake, your doing great! :tu

I'll pray for the Lord to come into your life.

Life isn't that dark Blake. You will be alright.

Just please stop using U.S. currency and barter for goods and services.
I am thinking your not going to like what's inscripted on some of our paper money.

Good luck and God's speed.


:toast

[TheManFromAcme]

God loved his Son so much that he allowed him to be brutally tortured and murdered....

and if you don't believe in him, many say you will be brutally tortured for eternity.

What a kind and loving Father.

Man, your lost.
One day, you'll get it.

What dark past must lurk behind you....(real obvious)
A shame because Christ loves you just as well.

[baseline bum]

AK7gI5lMB7M

[baseline bum]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/holdenmckock/gwar.gif

Jesus is the Finley of the gods. For being the son of god, you'd think he would have some lateral mobility.

[Blake]

Keep it up Blake, your doing great! :tu

thanks :tu


I'll pray for the Lord to come into your life.

ask for David Robinson type money for me too.


Life isn't that dark Blake. You will be alright.

My life is actually not dark at all. It's the "afterlife" I'm wondering about.

And if I have the read proper biblical translations correctly, worst case scenario for me is that I simply cease to exist after I die.

Hell fire is something that was made up to stir fear into the hearts of the non believers, imo.


Just please stop using U.S. currency and barter for goods and services.
I am thinking your not going to like what's inscripted on some of our paper money.

I am thinking I am indifferent to what is imprinted on our paper money.

Hell, I use my visa checkcard about 90% of the time any way.


Good luck and God's speed.


:toast

thanks.

so far I have had no luck in this thread being convinced that Christianity is anything but a sham.

of course, Id be more than surprised if someone on a spurs message board said something fresh about Christianity that blew me away

[Pero]

Just please stop using U.S. currency and barter for goods and services.
I am thinking your not going to like what's inscripted on some of our paper money.


You mean Egyptian symbols? :lol

[Blake]

Man, your lost.
One day, you'll get it.


Help me get it.

Please explain to me the justification for a God tormenting a person for eternity simply for non-belief that said God sent his Son to die for all wrong doings.



What dark past must lurk behind you....(real obvious)


You are reading way too much into what Im saying....(real obvious)

[Sisk]

How will we know anything when we're dead?

Well, if you dead and you end up in heaven.. you'd kind of know a God existed, right?

And of course, the opposite end of that spectrum

[exstatic]

http://www.buddhaweb.org/

Probably the most succinct of religions... :lol

That seems like a fairly accurate synopsis of the Therevada Sutras. The Mahayana Sutras aren't so bleak/dour.

[PublicOption]

ariancatholic.org

[PublicOption]

www.ariancatholic.org

[PublicOption]

www.arian-catholic.org


and its not aryan, its arian.

[baseline bum]

Well, if you dead and you end up in heaven.. you'd kind of know a God existed, right?

And of course, the opposite end of that spectrum

You're assuming the existence of an afterlife and a "soul" that carries your mental faculties with you to an afterlife, despite the physical faculties (namely the brain) that support thought being left decomposing inside the ground. If there is no afterlife or no soul, then you will most decidedly never know the answer, as how is it possible to know something when dead if there is no afterlife or no soul? Your argument is circular:

1. I have a soul.
2. There is an afterlife.
3. If there is a heaven, then there is a God.
4. There is a heaven.
5. In this afterlife, I will go to heaven, where I will see God.
6. Therefore, God exists because I see him.
7. Therefore, I know the answer to whether God exists.

If any of propositions 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 is false, the whole argument that you can know whether God exists upon death is unsound. If there's no soul, then you cannot carry information beyond the grave. If there's no afterlife, there is no beyond the grave. If there's no heaven, how do you see God? If there is a heaven but you go anywhere else, how do you see God? It can also fail if Proposition 3 isn't valid, which I see no reason to believe is so other than by Christian doctrine.

[PublicOption]

Being a christian by way of the christo-pagan Roman Catholic Church and all of its protestant bastards is not the way to go. the whole story is so outrageous that a reasonable man cannot comprehend it.

www.arian-catholic.org

[PublicOption]

council of Arles 353 A.D.

[mouse]

How old are you?

[z0sa]

I'm not sure if you just die and that's it or there's actually some afterlife. That said, I doubt its heaven and hell; more like, just something else. Or nothing at all; this is our existence so make the most out of it.

[mouse]

I'm not sure if you just die and that's it or there's actually some afterlife. That said, I doubt its heaven and hell; more like, just something else. Or nothing at all; this is our existence so make the most out of it.

Forget the Bible! you actually think we are all from a fish?

[Jacob1983]

A lot of religious discussions in this thread. Interesting. I'm impressed too. I think my main problem is doubt. I question too much. Well, some people might think that's a bad thing while others would say it's a good thing. I guess it can be both. I have a lot of doubt on prayer. I also have never undestood the whole "God letting bad things happen to people" in order to teach either them a lesson or human beings in a general a lesson. Things like 9/11 and The Holocaust really make me think about prayer and God's response time to prayer. What lesson was taught by letting 3,000 Americans die on one day on American soil or 6 million Jews in the 1930s and 1940s in Europe? I don't get it. I know that life is hard and people die but sometimes I question the why of these tragedies. I mean those people are on those planes on 9/11 probably all said prayers to God but He failed them. And then what about the Jews in the Holocaust? Sorry about bringing 9/11 and The Holocaust into the thread but it's just something I have thought about before.

[mookie2001]

a noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

[Pero]

What lesson was taught by letting 3,000 Americans die on one day on American soil or 6 million Jews in the 1930s and 1940s in Europe?

That you should always watch out for false flag operations?

[mookie2001]

in all fairness foreigners should keep their mouths shut on that subject

its not your place

[Pero]

in all fairness foreigners should keep their mouths shut on that subject

its not your place

:lol

[PublicOption]

you die and then go to STSA

[Crookshanks]

Jacob1983 - check your PM's.

[Ignignokt]

Being a christian by way of the christo-pagan Roman Catholic Church and all of its protestant bastards is not the way to go. the whole story is so outrageous that a reasonable man cannot comprehend it.

www.arian-catholic.org

now i know for sure this guy isn't mookie.

[remingtonbo2001]

A lot of religious discussions in this thread. Interesting. I'm impressed too. I think my main problem is doubt. I question too much. Well, some people might think that's a bad thing while others would say it's a good thing. I guess it can be both. I have a lot of doubt on prayer. I also have never undestood the whole "God letting bad things happen to people" in order to teach either them a lesson or human beings in a general a lesson. Things like 9/11 and The Holocaust really make me think about prayer and God's response time to prayer. What lesson was taught by letting 3,000 Americans die on one day on American soil or 6 million Jews in the 1930s and 1940s in Europe? I don't get it. I know that life is hard and people die but sometimes I question the why of these tragedies. I mean those people are on those planes on 9/11 probably all said prayers to God but He failed them. And then what about the Jews in the Holocaust? Sorry about bringing 9/11 and The Holocaust into the thread but it's just something I have thought about before.

Because sin exists. God permits an individual to choose. Some choose good. Some choose evil.

As anyone, beliver or non-believer would say, we do not live in a perfect world.

[jacobdrj]

Why do most current religions that (loosely) base themselves on the Hebrew Bible require their deity to be infallible and all knowing? Omniscience comes right from the text, but nowhere is omnipotence and perfection written, or even hinted at, in the original '5 Books of Moses'...

I submit that people only find solace in a more powerful being if they do not posses the 'frailties' of our own, or they find it belittling?

I submit that the universe is just as grand if it were 'The Creator's Little Science Experiment' and any wisdom that may be derived form thousands-years-old text, divine or otherwise, is no less valid.

[4down]

How will we know anything when we're dead?


If you die, and you realize it and say , "Oh shit, I'm dead", that's how you know. And then hit me up bro.

[4down]

a noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

embiggens? Is that even a word?

[Blake]

Because sin exists. God permits an individual to choose. Some choose good. Some choose evil.

As anyone, beliver or non-believer would say, we do not live in a perfect world.

Is it possible to be an evil believer?

[Blake]

Why do most current religions that (loosely) base themselves on the Hebrew Bible require their deity to be infallible and all knowing? Omniscience comes right from the text, but nowhere is omnipotence and perfection written, or even hinted at, in the original '5 Books of Moses'...


Genesis 18

14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? ...

[101A]

Dude, this is simple:

Requirements to be a Christian:

1. Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior who came to Earth to die for your sins.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else; just believe that.


Requirements to be an Atheist:

1. Believe that there is no almighty being/God/Force/etc... that all that is is a product of happenstance and evolution.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else.


NOW, for the results:

IF you follow the first path and BELIEVE,and are Correct?

Eternal bliss/happiness - no problems, only ecstasy in the presence of God FOREVER.

And if you are wrong?

Dirt Nap.


Whereas, if you follow the second path and DON'T believe and are wrong?

Eternal damnation and fire in the pits of HELL - FOREVER separate from the presence of God.

but if you're right?

Dirt Nap.


See?

The BEST result from NOT BELIEVING = The WORST result from believing!


A no-brainer, really.

[101A]

Is it possible to be an evil believer?


Satan believes in God.

[Blake]

Dude, this is simple:

Requirements to be a Christian:

1. Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior who came to Earth to die for your sins.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else; just believe that.


Requirements to be an Atheist:

1. Believe that there is no almighty being/God/Force/etc... that all that is is a product of happenstance and evolution.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else.


NOW, for the results:

IF you follow the first path and BELIEVE,and are Correct?

Eternal bliss/happiness - no problems, only ecstasy in the presence of God FOREVER.

And if you are wrong?

Dirt Nap.


Whereas, if you follow the second path and DON'T believe and are wrong?

Eternal damnation and fire in the pits of HELL - FOREVER separate from the presence of God.

but if you're right?

Dirt Nap.


See?

The BEST result from NOT BELIEVING = The WORST result from believing!


A no-brainer, really.


Satan believes in God.

so are you saying that Satan believes Jesus is his lord and savior?

because when I ask "is it possible to be an evil believer", that's what I'm getting at.

[jack sommerset]

Dude, this is simple:

Requirements to be a Christian:

1. Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior who came to Earth to die for your sins.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else; just believe that.


Requirements to be an Atheist:

1. Believe that there is no almighty being/God/Force/etc... that all that is is a product of happenstance and evolution.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else.


NOW, for the results:

IF you follow the first path and BELIEVE,and are Correct?

Eternal bliss/happiness - no problems, only ecstasy in the presence of God FOREVER.

And if you are wrong?

Dirt Nap.


Whereas, if you follow the second path and DON'T believe and are wrong?

Eternal damnation and fire in the pits of HELL - FOREVER separate from the presence of God.

but if you're right?

Dirt Nap.


See?

The BEST result from NOT BELIEVING = The WORST result from believing!


A no-brainer, really.


You convinced me. But I am going to keep it a secret from friends and family. I hate going to church and I hate people who talk about Jesus/religion.

[CuckingFunt]

embiggens? Is that even a word?

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

[DarkReign]

Choke yourself!

[baseline bum]

Dude, this is simple:

Requirements to be a Christian:

1. Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior who came to Earth to die for your sins.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else; just believe that.


Requirements to be an Atheist:

1. Believe that there is no almighty being/God/Force/etc... that all that is is a product of happenstance and evolution.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else.


NOW, for the results:

IF you follow the first path and BELIEVE,and are Correct?

Eternal bliss/happiness - no problems, only ecstasy in the presence of God FOREVER.

And if you are wrong?

Dirt Nap.


Whereas, if you follow the second path and DON'T believe and are wrong?

Eternal damnation and fire in the pits of HELL - FOREVER separate from the presence of God.

but if you're right?

Dirt Nap.


See?

The BEST result from NOT BELIEVING = The WORST result from believing!


A no-brainer, really.

Fear is no reason to believe something.

[Blake]

Fear is no reason to believe something.

not just that, how much belief does one have to have in order to cash in on 101's insurance policy?

is faith without works still faith?

and if not, then how much work must be done to get in?

[Stringer_Bell]

You should watch The Mission w/ De Niro and Jeremy Irons.

[symple19]

Okay you fucks, I'm gonna let the master break it down for you

Carlin



When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

[Blake]

Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.


:lol

[symple19]

:lol

Carlin is absolute gold, and it's a shame he's not around anymore to drop common sense upon the head of a world filled with sheep and slack-jawed morons

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dude, this is simple:

Requirements to be a Christian:

1. Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior who came to Earth to die for your sins.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else; just believe that.


Requirements to be an Atheist:

1. Believe that there is no almighty being/God/Force/etc... that all that is is a product of happenstance and evolution.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else.


NOW, for the results:

IF you follow the first path and BELIEVE,and are Correct?

Eternal bliss/happiness - no problems, only ecstasy in the presence of God FOREVER.

And if you are wrong?

Dirt Nap.


Whereas, if you follow the second path and DON'T believe and are wrong?

Eternal damnation and fire in the pits of HELL - FOREVER separate from the presence of God.

but if you're right?

Dirt Nap.


See?

The BEST result from NOT BELIEVING = The WORST result from believing!


A no-brainer, really.

I prefer the Mormon's idea. I want my own planet to rule over not some nebulous idea of happiness.

[word]

Dude, this is simple:

Requirements to be a Christian:

1. Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior who came to Earth to die for your sins.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else; just believe that.


Requirements to be an Atheist:

1. Believe that there is no almighty being/God/Force/etc... that all that is is a product of happenstance and evolution.

That's it; you don't have to do anything else.


NOW, for the results:

IF you follow the first path and BELIEVE,and are Correct?

Eternal bliss/happiness - no problems, only ecstasy in the presence of God FOREVER.

And if you are wrong?

Dirt Nap.


Whereas, if you follow the second path and DON'T believe and are wrong?

Eternal damnation and fire in the pits of HELL - FOREVER separate from the presence of God.

but if you're right?

Dirt Nap.


See?

The BEST result from NOT BELIEVING = The WORST result from believing!


A no-brainer, really.

This is called 'Pascals Wager'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

[LnGrrrR]

Edit: Poster above mentioned Pascal's Wager. :)

This is a logical fallacy, and is called Pascal's Wager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

It is, of course, wrong, because who's to say that whoever's upstairs isn't extremely jealous of Christ's popularity, and reserves punishment only for Christians?

Cmon 101A, you should know better than this. :D

[TheManFromAcme]

What a tragic thread.
America is by far in a much worst shape than previously thought.

:depressed

I pray for God's blessing though.

Keeping prayer in school is our last shot and hopefully the next line of young ones keep God in their lives.

Man, America is going to the dumps.

Jacob, follow your heart man. Jesus Christ is THE ONLY way.

....I am outta here

[symple19]

What a tragic thread.
America is by far in a much worst shape than previously thought.

:depressed

I pray for God's blessing though.

Keeping prayer in school is our last shot and hopefully the next line of young ones keep God in their lives.

Man, America is going to the dumps.

Jacob, follow your heart man. Jesus Christ is THE ONLY way.

....I am outta here

rofl, equating america's greatness with how many people do or don't believe in god and prayer in schools...

fail

[SAGambler]

Because sin exists. God permits an individual to choose. Some choose good. Some choose evil.

As anyone, beliver or non-believer would say, we do not live in a perfect world.


Is it possible to be an evil believer?


But believing in God does not make you automatically a good person. Look at the old Italian Mafioso dudes. They loved the church and God and prayed and all that shit, and yet they would kill you in a heartbeat.

[Blake]

cmon 101a, you should know better than this. :d

+1

[Blake]

What a tragic thread.
America is by far in a much worst shape than previously thought.

Keeping prayer in school is our last shot

Based on this post, I'd say our educational system is by far in a much worse shape than previously thought.

[symple19]

Based on this post, I'd say our educational system is by far in a much worse shape than previously thought.

Agreed.

I find myself feeling sad that so many young children are indoctrinated at an early age, before they have a chance to decide for themselves what path their spirituality will take.

[Jacob1983]

Kobol = Kolob:lol

I think I've come to a better understanding. I'm conflicted between being an agnostic and a Christian.

[easjer]

If you want an inter-denominational, realistic breakdown of the major tenets of Christianity, to really understand the basics, then I recommend a book again that has been recommended. Mere Christianity, by CS Lewis. You may read it, put it down and say 'Nope, I don't buy that' but at least it's not colored by so much of the bullshit that Christianity is divided over (and wrongly, imo).

There are plenty of flavors to choose from, if you feel it has to be Christianity or nothing, because everyone relies on different things as being more or less important to the faith.

I myself tend be a theist, in that I believe in the existence of God, but allow that there may be many paths to God. I think every religion hits some points on target and gets some wrong, including Christianity. I think it's none of my business what another person chooses to believe or practice, so long as it doesn't negatively impact another.

[Stringer_Bell]

Agreed.

I find myself feeling sad that so many young children are indoctrinated at an early age, before they have a chance to decide for themselves what path their spirituality will take.

Yo, children are indoctrinated with all sorts of shit at an early age. If telling them God is like Santa, watching everything you do to make sure you're nice, at least it buys a little time before they run their lives into the ground. Letting them know their freedom at an early age is NOT a good idea...hell, even some adults can't handle the concept.

[symple19]

Yo, children are indoctrinated with all sorts of shit at an early age. If telling them God is like Santa, watching everything you do to make sure you're nice, at least it buys a little time before they run their lives into the ground. Letting them know their freedom at an early age is NOT a good idea...hell, even some adults can't handle the concept.

True. I will say that IMO, the only things kids should be indoctrinated with is a sense of right and wrong. Religion is simply not needed in order to achieve this goal

At least kids grow out of the whole Santa, naughty or nice phase

[baseline bum]

Agreed.

I find myself feeling sad that so many young children are indoctrinated at an early age, before they have a chance to decide for themselves what path their spirituality will take.

If you first heard a story about a guy who wasn't a person who had a son who was also himself (???) who was born of a virgin, brought a guy back to life after he had been dead long enough to stink, then died, then came back to life 3 days later, and you heard it once you had reached the age of reason, how the hell would you believe it?

[Blake]

If you first heard a story about a guy who wasn't a person who had a son who was also himself (???) who was born of a virgin, brought a guy back to life after he had been dead long enough to stink, then died, then came back to life 3 days later, and you heard it once you had reached the age of reason, how the hell would you believe it?

with the ability to turn water into wine.....

an all powerful lush.

[exstatic]

Carlin is absolute gold, and it's a shame he's not around anymore to drop common sense upon the head of a world filled with sheep and slack-jawed morons

:lol Religion never does stand up to logical analysis. Guy get nailed to a tree, dies, is put in a cave, and pops out 3 days later. Yeah, right.

[Mark Celibate]

Whatever happened to GOATcob1983? tbh

[Mark Celibate]

I'm not saying this will happen,

but when you meet St. Peter in heaven and he asks, "Why do you believe in God?", you'll simply say....

"Spurstalk"?

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[baseline bum]

Whatever happened to GOATcob1983? tbh

Thought he moved to China to get laid

[SpursforSix]

Bend over, I'll fucking convince you to be an atheist.

[Mark Celibate]

Thought he moved to China to get laid

Happy for him if true, even if that means we'll never get to experience any one of his God-tier threads again. They were always a riot. Dude has the weirdest case of Stockholm Syndrome. Would always start threads complaining about his boss/job but then would do a 180 saying he needed to stick around just a bit longer whenever somebody tried to give him an exit plan. I honestly thought he was only typing with one hand since the other one was always holding a revolver up to his head ready to pull the trigger imo

[baseline bum]

Happy for him if true, even if that means we'll never get to experience any one of his God-tier threads again. They were always a riot. Dude has the weirdest case of Stockholm Syndrome. Would always start threads complaining about his boss/job but then would do a 180 saying he needed to stick around just a bit longer whenever somebody tried to give him an exit plan. I honestly thought he was only typing with one hand since the other one was always holding a revolver up to his head ready to pull the trigger imo

Damn I never remember him saying anything good about Target

[Mark Celibate]

Damn I never remember him saying anything good about Target

yeah it was depressing to read it for awhile, until I offered him multiple solutions i.e. getting into oilfield work, or getting into IT with clear paths that didn't cost that much money at all. But he just came back with more b!tching and excuses of why he couldn't do it so I stopped feeling bad....assuming this wasn't some elaborate trolljob the whole time tbh

[Millennial_Messiah]

Thought he moved to China to get laid

:lol with a 3 inch dick dude? With the one child policy males outnumber females there like more than 2 to 1. At least half of Chinese men don't get "laid" (with a woman, that is).

[baseline bum]

Happy for him if true, even if that means we'll never get to experience any one of his God-tier threads again. They were always a riot. Dude has the weirdest case of Stockholm Syndrome. Would always start threads complaining about his boss/job but then would do a 180 saying he needed to stick around just a bit longer whenever somebody tried to give him an exit plan. I honestly thought he was only typing with one hand since the other one was always holding a revolver up to his head ready to pull the trigger imo

Hey BUMP man, WTF happened to Will Hunting? Haven't seen him here in months. His trolling in the political forum was always hilarious.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Hey BUMP man, WTF happened to Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032)? Haven't seen him here in months. His trolling in the political forum was always hilarious.

I think he's the user behind the Adam Lambert account.

[Adam Lambert]

Hey BUMP man, WTF happened to Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032)? Haven't seen him here in months. His trolling in the political forum was always hilarious.

From February:


Having a 2nd Derp spamming has made this forum insufferable. I might be done with this site soon, the shit posting on this forum is worse than twitter.

We're losing good posters because of the shitty ones.

[Adam Lambert]

I think he's the user behind the Adam Lambert (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=27316) account.

You got me.

[Mark Celibate]

Hey BUMP man, WTF happened to Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032)? Haven't seen him here in months. His trolling in the political forum was always hilarious.

I think he just got bored and left. Can't blame him. tbh I haven't read a single entertaining thread on this site in months, not counting old copypasta stuff. it's just the same few unfunny posters spamming back and forth in every thread imho

[Millennial_Messiah]

I think he just got bored and left. Can't blame him. tbh I haven't read a single entertaining thread on this site in months, not counting old copypasta stuff. it's just the same few unfunny posters spamming back and forth in every thread imho

yeah, since the election stuff and football season ended it's been mostly dullsville. Ever since Kawhi Leonard quit the Spurs, the roughly half-a-year stretch from mid Feb thru August has been dull pretty much every year.