America couldn't have done this: Disturbing Iraqi birth defects

[nkdlunch]

Disturbing story of Fallujah's birth defects

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8548961.stm

Six years after the intense fighting began in the Iraqi town of Fallujah between US forces and Sunni insurgents, there is a disturbingly large number of cases of birth defects in the town.

Fallujah is less than 40 miles (65km) from Baghdad, but it can still be dangerous to get to.

As a result, there has been no authoritative medical investigation, certainly by any Western team, into the allegations that the weapons used by the Americans are still causing serious problems.

The Iraqi government line is that there are only one or two extra cases of birth defects per year in Fallujah, compared with the national average.

'Daily cases'

But in the impressive new Fallujah General Hospital, built with American aid, we found a paediatric specialist, Dr Samira al-Ani, who told us that she saw two or three new cases every day.

Most of them, she said, exhibited cardiac problems.

I have nothing documented. But I can tell you that year by year the number [is] increasing

Dr Samira al-Ani
Fallujah General Hospital
When asked what the cause was, she said: "I am a doctor. I have to be scientific in my talk. I have nothing documented. But I can tell you that year by year, the number [is] increasing."

The specialist, like other medical staff at the hospital, seemed nervous about talking too openly about the problem.

They were well aware that what they said went against the government version, and we were told privately that the Iraqi authorities are anxious not to embarrass the Americans over the issue.

There are no official figures for the incidence of birth defects in Fallujah.

The US military authorities are absolutely correct when they say they are not aware of any official reports indicating an increase in birth defects in Fallujah - no official reports exist.

Mothers warned

But it is impossible, as a visitor, not to be struck by the terrible number of cases of birth defects there.

We heard many times that officials in Fallujah had warned women that they should not have children.

We went to a clinic for the disabled, and were given details of dozens upon dozens of cases of children with serious birth defects.


Dozens of children were being treated at a clinic for the disabled
One photograph I saw showed a newborn baby with three heads.

While we were at the clinic, people kept arriving with children who were suffering major problems - a little girl with only one arm, several children who were paralysed, and another girl with a spinal condition so bad I asked my cameraman not to film her.

At the clinic we were told that the worst problems were to be found in the neighbourhood of al-Julan, near the river.

This was the heart of the resistance to the Americans during the two major offensives of April and September 2004, and was hit constantly by bombs and shells.

River water

We went to a house where three children, all under six, were suffering from birth defects.

Two boys were partially paralysed, and their sister clearly had serious brain damage.

Like all the other parents we spoke to, their mother had no doubt that the American attacks were responsible.

Outside, a man who had heard we were there had brought his four-year-old daughter to show us. She had six fingers on each hand, and six toes on each foot.

She was also suffering from a number of other serious health problems. The father told us that the house where they still lived had been hit by an American shell during the fighting in 2004.

There may well be a link with drinking-water, especially in al-Julan.

After the fighting was over, the rubble from the town was bulldozed into the river bank, and most people in this area get their water from the river.

The true causes of the problem, and the question of the effects of the weapons the Americans used, can be resolved only by a proper independent inquiry by medical experts.

And until the security situation in and around Fallujah improves, it will be difficult to carry that out.

[101A]

Weren't the weapons conventional?

Is this lead - from the weapons, or whatever else was pushed into the River, or both?

[clambake]

freedom ain't free.

freedom lead!

[LnGrrrR]

I'm not going to fully buy this until statistics come out. As 101A pointed out, the arms that the US is using are conventional. (As far as we know, of course, but I'm leaving out conspiracy theories for the moment).

[101A]

freedom ain't free.

freedom lead!

Fuck you.

I'm concerned about this, and simply asking questions. If this is true, and our weapons caused this (which, obviously, they might have) - I assume we didn't know they would, and can use the information to make changes to what weapons we use in the future - and where.

[boutons_deux]

US was also using depleted uranium in Iraq.

screwed up babies in Iraqi war zones way above the averages is not news.

btw, people are still being screwed up with genetic defects, cancers, etc, etc in Viet Nam.

VN vets with agent orange exposure get prostate cancer sooner than average and a more aggressive cancer.

and then are the US military who are sick as dogs from KBR, etc burning all kinds of nasty shit in Iraq in burn pits next to the bases.

America, Winning Hearts and Minds (and destroying bodies) All Around The Planet.

[clambake]

Fuck you.
poor baby. i'm just embracing my redneck. it wasn't an attack on your wittle feewings.


I'm concerned about this, and simply asking questions. If this is true, and our weapons caused this (which, obviously, they might have) - I assume we didn't know they would
you would automatically assume that, huh?


and can use the information to make changes to what weapons we use in the future - and where.
oh, so you expect the military complex to accept what might turn into negligence suits?

poor baby.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not going to fully buy this until statistics come out. As 101A pointed out, the arms that the US is using are conventional. (As far as we know, of course, but I'm leaving out conspiracy theories for the moment).
I think they are going back to wanting to blame this on the Depleted Uranium rounds. Thing is, we don't know how many chemicals lying around may have been atomized as well. I'm far from an expert here, but I don't see how depleted uranium would transfer through the placenta to cause defects. It is pulverized, but not reduced to the molecular level.

[ElNono]

It really isn't THAT complicated to just take some water from the river on a container, seal it, and then take it with you to a lab somewhere else (Turkey?) to study the composition, and see if the story carries any weight...

There could be a lot of reasons for a contaminated river. One other theory would be mercury contamination from all the town rubble that went in there.

[Wild Cobra]

It really isn't THAT complicated to just take some water from the river on a container, seal it, and then take it with you to a lab somewhere else (Turkey?) to study the composition, and see if the story carries any weight...

There could be a lot of reasons for a contaminated river. One other theory would be mercury contamination from all the town rubble that went in there.
Fallujah is the only larger city that has little irrigation. It is highly possible that the problems stem from natural chemistry in the sand, and the bombings may have exasperated the problem.

Like you say, samples are the key. I would assume that samples have been taken, but they cannot link the US as the cause. Seems to me that if there were any circumstantial evidence to it being caused by us, the liberal media would be all over it.

[clambake]

Dr Samira al-Ani
Fallujah General Hospital
When asked what the cause was, she said: "I am a doctor. I have to be scientific in my talk. I have nothing documented. But I can tell you that year by year, the number [is] increasing."

The specialist, like other medical staff at the hospital, seemed nervous about talking too openly about the problem.

They were well aware that what they said went against the government version, and we were told privately that the Iraqi authorities are anxious not to embarrass the Americans over the issue.

[Wild Cobra]

Yes, I know ClamBoy...

It must be true since it's on the internet...

[in2deep]

can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs

[clambake]

Yes, I know ClamBoy...

It must be true since it's on the internet...

maybe they died from karma.

[balli]

Hell will burn hotter each time a Bush voter arrives. I hope the guilty are looking forward to it.

[Winehole23]

Incidents of war (urban rubble, per ElNono). Depleted uranium (clambake, b_d).

Like ElNono said, it ought to be easy in principle to suss out the environmental factors if they have the ganas.

[clambake]

don't forget karma, winehole23.

[Wild Cobra]

maybe they died from karma.
No, why would you think that?

Wow... You get stupider with each posting.

It appears you are saying that if the allegation of the posting on the internet isn't true, it is as likely to be karma, right? I know you aren't refering to my Karma remark, because that was a question.

Wait...

Silly me, you are that stupid!

[Wild Cobra]

Incidents of war (urban rubble, per ElNono). Depleted uranium (clambake, b_d).

Like ElNono said, it ought to be easy in principle to suss out the environmental factors if they have the ganas.
Yes, I agree.

Let's see the results of the tests.

[Winehole23]

I wasn't aware any tests were being done.

[clambake]

I know you aren't refering to my Karma remark, because that was a question.

learn to live with it. you will never escape it.

[Wild Cobra]

learn to live with it. you will never escape it.
I know. I'll never escape the fact that you are so stupid in interpreting my remarks. I'm just afraid I'll die laughing.

[Winehole23]

don't forget karma, winehole23.I never did.

I was always against that war. Before it ever started.

[Wild Cobra]

I wasn't aware any tests were being done.
Ooops...

I phrased that wrong. I don't know of any either, and I find it so.... so... libtarded that these allegation fly with no such evaluations.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well according to Bush and Company they are better off today than they were prior to our democracy invasion!

[in2deep]

Ooops...

I phrased that wrong. I don't know of any either, and I find it so.... so... libtarded that these allegation fly with no such evaluations.

please pay attention. Iraqi goverment is trying to cover this up as well. :bang

[Wild Cobra]

please pay attention. Iraqi goverment is trying to cover this up as well. :bang
Evidence please, or do you believe everything you read on the internet like ClamBoy?

[boutons_deux]

phosphorus is another weapon chemical being mentioned in the articles on the Iraqi birth defects.

[Wild Cobra]

phosphorus is another weapon chemical being mentioned in the articles on the Iraqi birth defects.
Phosphorus could be a problem.

Is it possible that improper garbage disposal could be an issue? Look at all the chemicals from batteries, fluorescent tubes, etc. that get thrown away. There is a fair amount of very dangerous chemicals in fluorescent tubes, including phosphorus and mercury.

Any idea the proximity of a dump and the river?

Anyone?

[Winehole23]

The rumors of unconventional arms in Iraq go back a few years.

White phosphorus was another rumor in connection with Fallujah (I think).

The US military has officially denied using unconventional arms of any type in Iraq (pretty sure).

It'd be odd for them JMO to break the purity of their scientific ignorance, whether they are covering up or in fact innocent of the allegations.

[clambake]

Phosphorus could be a problem.

Is it possible that improper garbage disposal could be an issue? Look at all the chemicals from batteries, fluorescent tubes, etc. that get thrown away. There is a fair amount of very dangerous chemicals in fluorescent tubes, including phosphorus and mercury.

Any idea the proximity of a dump and the river?

Anyone?

with all your classified information.....and you don't know where the dump is?

preposterous!

[Wild Cobra]

with all your classified information.....and you don't know where the dump is?

preposterous!
I didn't learn about the shitholes you are so knowledgeable about.

I was unfamiliar with the area because we didn't have any nukes there.

[clambake]

I didn't learn about the shitholes you are so knowledgeable about.

you said "dump".

having memory concerns?

[clambake]

I was unfamiliar with the area because we didn't have any nukes there.

you wouldn't have been informed if they did.

[Wild Cobra]

you wouldn't have been informed if they did.
Wrong...

We had a map on the wall of where they all were.

[Winehole23]

Well that ought to settle it for good.

[Winehole23]

WC saw em on a map.

[clambake]

:lol

[Wild Cobra]

Good... I will neither confirm nor deny if what I said was true. Doesn't matter anyway, as you will believe as you are biased to.

[Winehole23]

Good... I will neither confirm nor deny if what I said was true.http://image.mcomet.com/M/2007_5_imdb/0photo_5/0_2007-5-14-6-29-18343.jpg

[Yonivore]

I seem to recall there being evidence,discovered post-invasion, of chemicals being dumped in the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, pre-invasion.

Fallujah sits on the Euphrates, if I'm not mistaken.

[spursncowboys]

can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs
This should be the motto of Obama's death panels.

[spursncowboys]

Well according to Bush and Company they are better off today than they were prior to our democracy invasion!

They are.

[Yonivore]

Deadly chemicals are found dumped in river (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1426775/Deadly-chemicals-are-found-dumped-in-river.html)




By David Harrison in Nasiriyah
Published: 12:01AM BST 06 Apr 2003

Mustard gas and cyanide have been found in river water in the Iraqi city of Nasiriyah, coalition forces said yesterday.

The poisonous substances are believed to have been dumped in the Euphrates either by Iraqi soldiers fleeing from American troops or local factories that produced weapons of mass destruction.

A spokesman for the United States marines, based just outside the city, described the quantities of chemical agents found as "significant" and claimed that it was further evidence that Saddam Hussein has produced weapons of mass destruction.

He said yesterday: "I think this discovery shows what kind of guy is running this country.

"This stuff is just dumped in the Euphrates without any concern for the many people who drink and wash with water from the river."

The poisons were discovered by the marines' scientists who were testing the quality of water taken from the Euphrates before purifying it and distributing it to the residents of Nasiriyah, a city of 250,000 people.

It follows the discovery of hundreds of gas masks and chemical warfare suits at a military base near the city.

Weapons found at the site included rocket launchers, machine-guns and rifles, bayonets and thousands of rounds of ammunition.

Yesterday the site was deserted except for a few American soldiers examining the contents of the armoury, picking their way carefully through grenades and a huge amount of other explosives packed in boxes or strewn in and around the storerooms.

Among the boxes were papers with details of Iraqi soldiers, each with a small black-and-white passport photograph attached. There were also dozens of unused black berets of the sort worn frequently by Saddam Hussein.

The marines returned to the Euphrates in Nasiriyah yesterday to distribute purified water to hundreds of Iraqis who formed an orderly queue on the river bank.

Under the watchful gaze of heavily armed troops, the water was taken directly from the river, cleaned and then piped into buckets and jerry cans of all shapes and sizes.

Most residents were pleased that water was being provided, although some pointed out that the water problem only arose at the beginning of the war when American aircraft destroyed the city's treatment plant.

Abdul Ahmed, 33, said: "We are grateful for their help but we only have this problem because of the American bombings."

He added: "Before that we had water from the taps in our houses so we are still worse off than we were before the start of the war."
This is downstream from Fallujah.

[spursncowboys]

The two main rivers are naturally undrinkable. For thousands of years the Iraqis treat their water.

[Winehole23]

Deadly chemicals are found dumped in river (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1426775/Deadly-chemicals-are-found-dumped-in-river.html)


This is downstream from Fallujah.Downstream from your link:

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=15195

[clambake]

why did this great new democracy stop purifying their water?

[spursncowboys]

why did this great new democracy stop purifying their water?

:lmao

[ElNono]

This really screams for 'need actual research'...
This is really no different than other conspiracy theories like 'Obama must be hiding something from his past' and it's all a MSM coverup... If that's disgusting, this should be no different.

[spursncowboys]

This really screams for 'need actual research'...
This is really no different than other conspiracy theories like 'Obama must be hiding something from his past' and it's all a MSM coverup... If that's disgusting, this should be no different.

This is a little more sinister than the msm is left leaning TBH.

[ElNono]

This is a little more sinister than the msm is left leaning TBH.

The backstory is... but the completely unsubstantiated finger pointing is exactly the same thing...

[Nbadan]

Bring them home? Really?


8XE4eRiKrz8

[LnGrrrR]

The rumors of unconventional arms in Iraq go back a few years.

White phosphorus was another rumor in connection with Fallujah (I think).

The US military has officially denied using unconventional arms of any type in Iraq (pretty sure).

It'd be odd for them JMO to break the purity of their scientific ignorance, whether they are covering up or in fact innocent of the allegations.


I love how using chemical weapons and biological weapons isn't allowed, but Willy Pete is. I never quite got that, from a logical standpoint.

[Wild Cobra]

This really screams for 'need actual research'...
This is really no different than other conspiracy theories like 'Obama must be hiding something from his past' and it's all a MSM coverup... If that's disgusting, this should be no different.
I agree. However, it seems everyone is happy with the propaganda that it is the USA's fault. Being suspicious as I am, I must conclude that the media doesn't want to unveil the truth. That they fear the truth will vindicate president Bush.

Where are real investigative reporters when you need one?

[boutons_deux]

"the msm is left leaning"

That's stink tank/Movement Conservative bullshit, a total myth. "left wing" rags like NYT and WP are heavily in the neo-c*nt camp.

Meanwhile the right wing has spent something like $30B over the last 30 years constructing their bullshit, myth-making, disinformation echo chamber, including the right-wing stink tanks cranking out totally biased crap and outright lies.

[boutons_deux]

"That they fear the truth will vindicate president Bush. "

dubya and his gang are blantantly, unquestionably guility.

Corporate media only wants to report bad news when its advertisers aren't involved, or the bad news is from overseas (and not caused by US military or corporate imperialism).

[Wild Cobra]

I love how using chemical weapons and biological weapons isn't allowed, but Willy Pete is. I never quite got that, from a logical standpoint.
It is very effective for the purposes it's used for. Incendiaries, tracers, smoke screens, etc. It is not toxic in the doses received by these methods. It takes direct contact with a concentrated form, or long term exposure to the gas it produces. It is pretty irritating in the burnt gaseous form however.

[LnGrrrR]

It is very effective for the purposes it's used for. Incendiaries, tracers, smoke screens, etc. It is not toxic in the doses received by these methods. It takes direct contact with a concentrated form, or long term exposure to the gas it produces. It is pretty irritating in the burnt gaseous form however.

They do have willy pete grenades though... I've seen them in action, when I was trying out for EOD. (Burned through an engine block.) Not sure of the ROE on using those.

[Wild Cobra]

They do have willy pete grenades though... I've seen them in action, when I was trying out for EOD. (Burned through an engine block.) Not sure of the ROE on using those.
We had incendiaries at some communications sites I worked at in the military as well. Their purpose was to put on the crypto safe to destroy everything in case we were being overrun.

[LnGrrrR]

We had incendiaries at some communications sites I worked at in the military as well. Their purpose was to put on the crypto safe to destroy everything in case we were being overrun.

Hm.. interesting. I tell you one thing, anyone pulling those pins better be a fast runner... :lol