dwight vs durant

[boston.balla]

Note: For a championship contender not any other purpose.

I think dwight inflences the game far more than durant. He changes the game both offensively and defensively. He demands double teams. Is a matchup nightmare. It is much easier to build a contender around him. Offers perimeter players the chance to gamble more (=> more aggressive defense). Allows players to get a wide open shot when doubled.

Durant is an awesome scorer but I think he is overhyped. Dwight is what you see is what you get. Nightly. And is the only superstar C in the league, so has a much better chance to dominate for his team.

All this factors make dwight much more appealing

What do you think?

[picc84]

Dwight 10 times out of 10

[Scola]

I would take Dwight, a defensive presence in the paint is pretty much a requisite for any type of championship team. Hes pretty raw offensively, but with his size, defense, and athleticism, hell be a top 3 center for a very long time.

Durant is an amazing scorer but you can always find other guys or positions to fill that scoring void. Its much easier to pick up a quality sf/sg through free agency or the draft.

[Phillip]

id much rather build around durant, than dwight

i love dwight, but hes probably the most overrated player in the NBA

you cannot run an offense through him, as his main offense is just putbacks and open dunks. but he has no post game whatsoever, unless his retarded looking hookshot is somehow on. his defense is quite overrated too. he goes for blocks, but when it comes to straight defense, hes not that great. Pau Gasol owned him last year straight up, because he has such low defensive IQ.

[Phillip]

He demands double teams.

Only against shitty or massively undersized centers. His post game is awful. He has no jumper. His offense comes mostly from cleaning up, or if his hookshot is falling (not all that often)

[Brazil]

I'd take Dwight but really by a small margin, he has the "take the dominant big over a dominant guard/forward" for him but he has big inconvenients: fools, apparently not a hard worker (he is not improving a lot his game year after year), fts, Offensively it's dunk or die... On the other hand Durant improves his game, I don't think he is overhyped, putting together this 25 pts serie is damn impressive, he is a matchup nightmare for everybody.

[Cane]

Durant. He's one position above Howard in the PER standings and is the leader of an unexpected and greatly improved OKC team and would probably be a top team in the East.

Why I wouldn't pick Howard:

1. Lack of talent offensively, against LA in the Finals he only averaged 15.4 points. Teams can shut down Howard easier and with his athleticism and size you'd think he'd be competing for the scoring title every year in this relatively weak era of bigmen especially in the shitty East. IIRC, Durant is less than half a point from meeting Lebron's PPG.

2. Howard is too prone to stupid fouls, elbows (even injured his own teammate), turnovers, technicals, etc. which limits his minutes and impact.

3. Long term: Can't see how a guy like Howard will age well; Durant already has a veteran stroke.

4. Drama: Whether its his Baby Mamma, using the media to whine against coaches/refs, etc; Durant has none of this bullshit which is always a plus.

Howard's game seems to be easily exploited by contending teams and he's overrated imo. With his athleticism, size, conference, and this PG-era; he should be competing for every award around but he falls short because his IQ, talent, and skills are nowhere near as close to his physical attributes. Same cannot be said for Durant; physically he's also a matchup nightmare but he actually has the intangibles and skills to reinforce his physical advantages.

[TIMMYD!]

Durant. He's one position above Howard in the PER standings and is the leader of an unexpected and greatly improved OKC team and would probably be a top team in the East.

Why I wouldn't pick Howard:

1. Lack of talent offensively, against LA in the Finals he only averaged 15.4 points. Teams can shut down Howard easier and with his athleticism and size you'd think he'd be competing for the scoring title every year in this relatively weak era of bigmen especially in the shitty East. IIRC, Durant is less than half a point from meeting Lebron's PPG.

2. Howard is too prone to stupid fouls, elbows (even injured his own teammate), turnovers, technicals, etc. which limits his minutes and impact.

3. Long term: Can't see how a guy like Howard will age well; Durant already has a veteran stroke.

4. Drama: Whether its his Baby Mamma, using the media to whine against coaches/refs, etc; Durant has none of this bullshit which is always a plus.

Howard's game seems to be easily exploited by contending teams and he's overrated imo. With his athleticism, size, conference, and this PG-era; he should be competing for every award around but he falls short because his IQ, talent, and skills are nowhere near as close to his physical attributes. Same cannot be said for Durant; physically he's also a matchup nightmare but he actually has the intangibles and skills to reinforce his physical advantages.

You said everything I wanted to. :tu

Especially the aging part, because most of Dwight's game revolves around out jumping his opponents and I don't think he will be able to do that all of his career.

[Scola]

1. Lack of talent offensively, against LA in the Finals he only averaged 15.4 points. Teams can shut down Howard easier and with his athleticism and size you'd think he'd be competing for the scoring title every year in this relatively weak era of bigmen especially in the shitty East. IIRC, Durant is less than half a point from meeting Lebron's PPG.

He averaged 15 Pts and 15 Rebounds on 9 FGs per game. The guy isn't an offensive force but hes pretty efficient with the shots he takes and provides a defensive anchor for the team.

This season :
Durant = 29.6 PPG / 22 FGs per game = 1.3 Points per FG
Howard = 18.7 PPG / 10.2 FGs per game = 1.8 Points per FG



2. Howard is too prone to stupid fouls, elbows (even injured his own teammate), turnovers, technicals, etc. which limits his minutes and impact.

Agree with you on this point, he tends to pick up too many fouls.



3. Long term: Can't see how a guy like Howard will age well; Durant already has a veteran stroke.

I actually think Howard will be better in the long run. Hes 7 ft and all he really has to do is catch and turn around. Durant relies on his speed to get past guys and get to the rim. This eventually catches up with guys and results in injuries plus increased slowness with age. As un-athletic as Shaq is, hes still surviving because hes 7ft+ and can push around smaller guys.



4. Drama: Whether its his Baby Mamma, using the media to whine against coaches/refs, etc; Durant has none of this bullshit which is always a plus.

Durant seems to keep to himself like Duncan, which results in less trouble/drama, but also makes him less appealing from a marketing standpoint.



Howard's game seems to be easily exploited by contending teams and he's overrated imo. With his athleticism, size, conference, and this PG-era; he should be competing for every award around but he falls short because his IQ, talent, and skills are nowhere near as close to his physical attributes. Same cannot be said for Durant; physically he's also a matchup nightmare but he actually has the intangibles and skills to reinforce his physical advantages.

I was unware that we were in a "point guard era". Hes averaging 18.7 PPG, 13.1 Rebounds, 2.8 Blocks, shoots .603 % and just won Defensive Player of the Year. I don't see how hes falling short.

[resistanze]

Dwight by a small margin. It should be by a big margin if he ever pulled his head out of his ass and realized his potential, but it might be too late for that.

[benefactor]

If I'm building a championship team with the knowledge I have about both players, I take Durant...and it's not close.

[Phillip]

He averaged 15 Pts and 15 Rebounds on 9 FGs per game. The guy isn't an offensive force but hes pretty efficient with the shots he takes and provides a defensive anchor for the team.

Hes efficient because most of those shots came from putbacks and alley-oops. Give him 9 FGs where he has to score straight up, and he is going to run into some serious issues.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ this thread..

-This myth that Howard doesn't have a good post game is ridiculous..his post game has improved HEAVILY this season..he's a legit post presence at this point..

Howard has less of his points assisted than Dirk, Duncan, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Stoudemire and which ever other big man you want to compare him to..Dwight gets around the same amount of points off putbacks as Duncan, Gasol and Bosh..the myth will continue though..

Not only is a he a good post up player and scores at an amazingly efficient rate, but he gets the other team in foul trouble more than any other player in the NBA..

-The Magic are currently the #3 defensive team in the NBA and did something similar last year, despite having average/below average defenders everywhere(other than Barnes and Redick..sometimes Pietrus..Gortat is an above average defender, but he doesn't play with Dwight)..Howard is a 1-man defense, he's by far the best anchor in the NBA right now..he's the best shot blocker in the NBA and undoubtedly alters more shots than anybody in the NBA..a team with Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter as the backcourt and Rashard Lewis as the PF doesn't have an elite defensive ranking without a completely dominant big man to make up for the flaws of those other starters..

Howard was #1 in defensive rating and defensive win shares last year, and he's currently #1 in both categories again..

-Despite all these apparent flaws that idiots keep naming, the guy led a team to the NBA Finals by putting up 20-15-3 on 60% shooting with great defense in the playoffs..

-Cane's last 2 points are completely irrelevant..trying to predict the future + "drama"?..LOL..I've never seen a guy reach so much for his arguments..

-Durant's PER is barely better than Howard, and one of PER's main flaws is that it doesn't account for defense..Durant is an average defender while Howard is the DPOY..

-I don't understand these stupid points like Howard "should be" better and using that against him..Dwight draws more fouls than anybody in the NBA and he has an extremely low usage % for a superstar player..he also gets more double teams than any player in the NBA and plays in a chucking system..how exactly is he "supposed to" compete for scoring titles?..

Howard is playing in a league that is very biased towards swingmen with the playing style and the way the game is officiated..a big man will never come close to leading the NBA in scoring again, unless he's not a defensive/rebounding anchor..

-Dwight's numbers have actually been better against the West this season..even though your point about playing in the "weak East" is stupid, he's putting up better numbers against the West this season..

-Durant is becoming really overrated here..the guy has never even won a playoff game and he's getting hype over the DPOY that just led his team to the Finals last year..shit, some people here said they would take him over Kobe..

-Durant has extremely poor assist numbers for a guy that handles the ball so much..he's one of 5 guys that have a 30+ usage%(Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Anthony) and he has by far the worst passing ratings of the bunch..

People can criticize Howard's post game and whatever..even though they're wrong, all that matters at the end is that he's getting amazing results..

Durant is a top 3-4 scorer in the NBA and a good rebounder for his position, but he doesn't do anything else at a notable level..Howard is one of the best scoring big men in the NBA, the best rebounder in the NBA and the best defender in the NBA..

[boston.balla]

LOL @ this thread..

-This myth that Howard doesn't have a good post game is ridiculous..his post game has improved HEAVILY this season..he's a legit post presence at this point..

Howard has less of his points assisted than Dirk, Duncan, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Stoudemire and which ever other big man you want to compare him to..Dwight gets around the same amount of points off putbacks as Duncan, Gasol and Bosh..the myth will continue though..

Not only is a he a good post up player and scores at an amazingly efficient rate, but he gets the other team in foul trouble more than any other player in the NBA..

-The Magic are currently the #3 defensive team in the NBA and did something similar last year, despite having average/below average defenders everywhere(other than Barnes and Redick..sometimes Pietrus..Gortat is an above average defender, but he doesn't play with Dwight)..Howard is a 1-man defense, he's by far the best anchor in the NBA right now..he's the best shot blocker in the NBA and undoubtedly alters more shots than anybody in the NBA..a team with Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter as the backcourt and Rashard Lewis as the PF doesn't have an elite defensive ranking without a completely dominant big man to make up for the flaws of those other starters..

Howard was #1 in defensive rating and defensive win shares last year, and he's currently #1 in both categories again..

-Despite all these apparent flaws that idiots keep naming, the guy led a team to the NBA Finals by putting up 20-15-3 on 60% shooting with great defense in the playoffs..

-Cane's last 2 points are completely irrelevant..trying to predict the future + "drama"?..LOL..I've never seen a guy reach so much for his arguments..

-Durant's PER is barely better than Howard, and one of PER's main flaws is that it doesn't account for defense..Durant is an average defender while Howard is the DPOY..

-I don't understand these stupid points like Howard "should be" better and using that against him..Dwight draws more fouls than anybody in the NBA and he has an extremely low usage % for a superstar player..he also gets more double teams than any player in the NBA and plays in a chucking system..how exactly is he "supposed to" compete for scoring titles?..

Howard is playing in a league that is very biased towards swingmen with the playing style and the way the game is officiated..a big man will never come close to leading the NBA in scoring again, unless he's not a defensive/rebounding anchor..

-Dwight's numbers have actually been better against the West this season..even though your point about playing in the "weak East" is stupid, he's putting up better numbers against the West this season..

-Durant is becoming really overrated here..the guy has never even won a playoff game and he's getting hype over the DPOY that just led his team to the Finals last year..shit, some people here said they would take him over Kobe..

-Durant has extremely poor assist numbers for a guy that handles the ball so much..he's one of 5 guys that have a 30+ usage%(Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Anthony) and he has by far the worst passing ratings of the bunch..

People can criticize Howard's post game and whatever..even though they're wrong, all that matters at the end is that he's getting amazing results..

Durant is a top 3-4 scorer in the NBA and a good rebounder for his position, but he doesn't do anything else at a notable level..Howard is one of the best scoring big men in the NBA, the best rebounder in the NBA and the best defender in the NBA..

/thread brotha .. I find it amazing that people don't understand what howard means and just compare him to whatever they think he should be.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dwight doesnt have that killer instinct man....fkn guy always laughin

[stretch]

-This myth that Howard doesn't have a good post game is ridiculous..his post game has improved HEAVILY this season..he's a legit post presence at this point..

Howard has less of his points assisted than Dirk, Duncan, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Stoudemire and which ever other big man you want to compare him to..Dwight gets around the same amount of points off putbacks as Duncan, Gasol and Bosh..the myth will continue though..


First, of course he gets less points assisted, because they mostly come off of putbacks

Second, its easy to pad your stats against all those shitty ass east teams, or awful defensive teams in the west like Phoenix, Golden State, etc... If you had a damn brain, you would have seen we were talking about how he matches up against GOOD centers. He runs into serious issues when forced to play straight up against guys like Bynum, Haywood, Gasol, etc... but when he gets to play against shitty or undersized guys like Nazr Mohammed, Eddie Najera, David Lee, etc... of course he can rack up some extra buckets.

It's no myth. When he plays against a team that either has a good defensive center, or knows how to double down on him effectively, he runs into serious issues because 1. he has a minimal post game, and 2. he is a fucking horrible passer.

[LnGrrrR]

I would take Dwight, a defensive presence in the paint is pretty much a requisite for any type of championship team. Hes pretty raw offensively, but with his size, defense, and athleticism, hell be a top 3 center for a very long time.

Durant is an amazing scorer but you can always find other guys or positions to fill that scoring void. Its much easier to pick up a quality sf/sg through free agency or the draft.

Looking back on championship teams recently, how many had legit C's?

2009 Lakers - Bynum was decent, but not awesome
2008 Celtics - Perkins was serviceable, above-average, but not a worldbeater
2007 Spurs - Are we counting Timmy at C?
2006 Heat - Shaq was a shadow of himself

Whereas here are the scorers for those teams...

2009 Lakers - Kobe
2008 Celtics - Pierce/Allen
2007 Spurs - Manu/Parker / Timmy (not sure of his PPG during the finals)
2006 Heat - Dwayne

Anyways, I'd say a good SCORER is potentially more likely to guide his team to a championship these days than a good C.

[Brazil]

Durant is a top 3-4 scorer in the NBA and a good rebounder for his position, but he doesn't do anything else at a notable level..Howard is one of the best scoring big men in the NBA, the best rebounder in the NBA and the best defender in the NBA..

solid post but your last coment is strange.

Durant is not a good passer but compared to Dwight he is S Nash. Dwight has a lot of FTs correct but his FTs% is just horrible even if he improved a lot just enough to avoid the hack a Dwight strategy. Dwight is also TOs prone: 24 TOs over the last 10 games for 14 assists ! For me he relies too much on his athleticism, sometimes he is lazy, he can cost a game by his stupid fouls or his poor FTs shooting, for a big drawing so many double teams he should kill the opponents by his passing which is not case worst his TOs / Assists is not good at all.

Anyway I voted Dwight by a small margin but saying it's not even a discussion is just wrong.

[HeyIt'sMe]

I think it's funny that a Mavs fan is calling Howard's post game horrible when he put up 29 and 16 against Brendan Chamberlain just a couple weeks ago.

In fact, against the amazingly awesome Brendan Haywood and his almighty post defense this year, Dwight has put up a 23 and 12 game, a 20 and 18 game, and a 29 and 16 game. Yeah, Haywood really gives him problems.

He also put up 24 and 12 against the Lakers earlier this year, and had 18 at halftime before the Magic started chucking in the second half.

Howard's offense is so underrated that it's becoming ridiculous. The majority of his points do not come off of putbacks, contrary to popular belief.

[DJB]

i love dwight, but hes probably the most overrated player in the NBA


:tu