LMAO Lakers

[picc84]

lol Bobcats beating a team they are supposed to beat

lol Gasoft

lol Fisher

lol Phil

lol Bynum

At this point i'm almost getting pure amusement from this team get mollywhopped. When you have a squad that has easily correctable problems and REFUSES to correct them, you just have to laugh at the arrogance and the losses that pile up as a result. :lol

Oh shit Phil, you dont have a team that blows everyone away in talent? Whatever will you do now?? :lmao

[lurker]

If Bobcats ever learn to imagine that every team is the Lakers or Cavs, we're all in trouble. :lol

[baseline bum]

LOL RC not trading for Stephen Jackson

[DPG21920]

Pic, what do you mean. He still has a team that blows everyone away in talent.

[ChrisRichards]

Lakers didnt star clicking until the last week of March and 1st week of April last season. That's the time Phil also permanently inserted Ariza in the lineup. I think a change in line up will benefit them and I think its coming real soon. I won't be surprised if Bynum is benched, Odom takes his place and Farmar starts over Fisher.

[djohn2oo8]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

[picc84]

LMAO Fisher and Bynum untradeable :lmao :lmao

[picc84]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

:lol

[DPG21920]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

Nice.

[picc84]

Pic, what do you mean. He still has a team that blows everyone away in talent.

No he doesn't, what are you talking about? And now, there's no prime MJ or Shaq to bail his ass out. He's got a 32 year old Kobe Bryant with 20 injuries. What will the "GOAT" coach pull out of his sleeve?

[ezau]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

excellent :lmao:lmao

[DPG21920]

No he doesn't, what are you talking about? And now, there's no prime MJ or Shaq to bail his ass out. He's got a 32 year old Kobe Bryant with 20 injuries. What will the "GOAT" coach pull out of his sleeve?

Yes he does. Lakers are CLEARLY the most talented team.

Kobe/Pau/Artest/Bynum/Odom = Stacked

[JoeTait75]

Charlotte is 4-2 against the Lakers and the Cavaliers, with one loss coming before the Captain Jack acquisition and the other loss by two points on the road...

... and 1-2 against the Nets.

NBA is a weird game sometimes.

[ulosturedge]

Lakers keep screwing around those bad habits are gonna be hard to break. I'm sure the baggage between Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum isn't helping.

[JamStone]

Fisher, Artest, Shannon Brown: 4-for-23 from the field???

[23LeBronJames23]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

:lmao

[DPG21920]

www.LetShannonShoot.com

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

Lakers didnt star clicking until the last week of March and 1st week of April last season. That's the time Phil also permanently inserted Ariza in the lineup. I think a change in line up will benefit them and I think its coming real soon. I won't be surprised if Bynum is benched, Odom takes his place and Farmar starts over Fisher.

I said it a couple weeks back that Odom should start for Bynum. I don't know about Fartmar though.

[DPG21920]

I thought Shannon > Farmar?

[DJ Mbenga]

I thought Shannon > Farmar?

not now. he has some sort of contraption on his hand. he was shooting bricks tonight. he hit the side of the backboard on an open corner 3. its that bad i guess

[sribb43]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

:toast

[ChrisRichards]

I said it a couple weeks back that Odom should start for Bynum. I don't know about Fartmar though.
Well, ideally Farmar is better with the second unit. He seems to play well with Bynum and Shannon Brown. But Phil Jackson in this day, age and his lifetime will never start a younger player over two veterans (Fish and Farmar). I know I have severely criticized Kobe but I have also been neutral sometimes, give credit where its due, but right now I think Kobe is having a negative impact in his team. While his game winner against Memphis and great shooting game in Miami was a joy to watch from an entertainment aspect, the Lakers as a whole suffers when Kobe plays too much ISO. The offense is dry, the players loses rhythm watching Kobe dribble and shoot. By the time Kobe starts playing the role of a facilitator, they are cold and stagnant.



Ive always said this but I know im going to get flamed, but the Lakers will be unbeatable and may very well replicate the Lakers 2001 NBA Playoff record of 15-1 if Kobe makes a huge adjustment and sacrifice scoring opportunities. Kobe at around 18 FGA/ 24 ppg, 7 Apg while exerting much more energy on defense would make this Laker team the run away NBA champion for this year and next.

[Def Rowe]

Well, ideally Farmar is better with the second unit. He seems to play well with Bynum and Shannon Brown. But Phil Jackson in this day, age and his lifetime will never start a younger player over two veterans (Fish and Farmar). I know I have severely criticized Kobe but I have also been neutral sometimes, give credit where its due, but right now I think Kobe is having a negative impact in his team. While his game winner against Memphis and great shooting game in Miami was a joy to watch from an entertainment aspect, the Lakers as a whole suffers when Kobe plays too much ISO. The offense is dry, the players loses rhythm watching Kobe dribble and shoot. By the time Kobe starts playing the role of a facilitator, they are cold and stagnant.



Ive always said this but I know im going to get flamed, but the Lakers will be unbeatable and may very well replicate the Lakers 2001 NBA Playoff record of 15-1 if Kobe makes a huge adjustment and sacrifice scoring opportunities. Kobe at around 18 FGA/ 24 ppg, 7 Apg while exerting much more energy on defense would make this Laker team the run away NBA champion for this year and next.

Can't say I can argue with any of this.

[ChrisRichards]

Can't say I can argue with any of this.
Thanks son. God bless you.

[Def Rowe]

Thanks son. God bless you.

:toast

[TheMACHINE]

ima go on lakersground and use the "Own Kobe" line and probably get banned. lol

[badfish22]

Coach takes a jab at power forward
(http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4970154)
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- In the Lakers' last two losses, a three-point overtime loss in Miami on Thursday and a five-point loss in Dallas 10 days ago, production from Los Angeles' three-time All-Star Pau Gasol was conspicuously absent.

Gasol, who is averaging 17.0 points and 11.1 rebounds this season, averaged 10.5 points and 7.5 rebounds in the two losses while playing his normal amount of minutes (33.5 minutes in the two games as opposed to his season average of 36.6).

"I really don't like to talk about that aspect of a person's game ... other than the fact that he's been weak and sickly," coach Phil Jackson said before the Lakers played the Bobcats on Friday, setting up the delivery of the jab with a pregnant pause.

When asked to clarify, Jackson said that Gasol has been feeling "under the weather" and he will have to monitor his 7-foot power forward's playing time.

"I'll start to work the bench a little more and see if I can't spell some minutes for these guys," Jackson said.

After Thursday's loss, Jackson reserved judgment on Gasol, simply saying, "He just had a tough night tonight." Gasol, while stretching out on the Time Warner Cable Arena court before the game, acknowledged that he has been affected by a cold.

When informed about Jackson's comments, Gasol frowned and said, "That's funny.



Is this an issue?

[TheMACHINE]

itll be an issue if Pau gasol doesnt stop playing like an oversized vagina

[TheMACHINE]

John Ireland was saying on the radio today that Kobe showed up the arena to practice jumpers at 3:00. He was surprised that after the loss to Miami, more players, especially the younger ones, didn't show up.

[picc84]

Yes he does. Lakers are CLEARLY the most talented team.

Kobe/Pau/Artest/Bynum/Odom = Stacked

guys keep saying this, as if repeating it over and over makes it true. i guess once you get name recognition, thats all some fans need. :lol

and nevermind the rest of the shitty players, what does depth matter anyway? :lmao

[DPG21920]

You are a quite the ridiculous person if you are being serious when you try and argue the Lakers are not stacked.

Everyone in the basketball world says it, but I guess Picc84 from SpursTalk knows best.

[Muser]

A cold? Weak excuse.

[picc84]

Well, ideally Farmar is better with the second unit. He seems to play well with Bynum and Shannon Brown. But Phil Jackson in this day, age and his lifetime will never start a younger player over two veterans (Fish and Farmar). I know I have severely criticized Kobe but I have also been neutral sometimes, give credit where its due, but right now I think Kobe is having a negative impact in his team. While his game winner against Memphis and great shooting game in Miami was a joy to watch from an entertainment aspect, the Lakers as a whole suffers when Kobe plays too much ISO. The offense is dry, the players loses rhythm watching Kobe dribble and shoot. By the time Kobe starts playing the role of a facilitator, they are cold and stagnant.

Farmar is actually better with the first unit. He together with Kobe, Artest, Odom, and Gasol represents our best statistical unit by a wide margin, both offensively and defensively. Unfortunately, Jackson doesn't play this unit because he's a stubborn arrogant prick.




Ive always said this but I know im going to get flamed, but the Lakers will be unbeatable and may very well replicate the Lakers 2001 NBA Playoff record of 15-1 if Kobe makes a huge adjustment and sacrifice scoring opportunities. Kobe at around 18 FGA/ 24 ppg, 7 Apg while exerting much more energy on defense would make this Laker team the run away NBA champion for this year and next.

He shot 21 times last night. And only that because things were getting out of hand. No one else showed up. Its not always Kobe's fault.

[ElNono]

Zen master starting with the subtle jabs... next up: Writing a book about Gasoft being a vajeje

[picc84]

You are a quite the ridiculous person if you are being serious when you try and argue the Lakers are not stacked.

Everyone in the basketball world says it, but I guess Picc84 from SpursTalk knows best.

I didnt say they aren't stacked. I said they arent the MOST stacked/talented team in the league. Which is true. Because having a recognized name is a great way to become overrated. DPG2920 knows this well, it seems.

Now shout "Bynum/Gasol/Odom/Artest/Kobe" again like it proves anything.

[DPG21920]

Farmar is actually better with the first unit. He together with Kobe, Artest, Odom, and Gasol represents our best statistical unit by a wide margin, both offensively and defensively. Unfortunately, Jackson doesn't play this unit because he's a stubborn arrogant prick.





He shot 21 times last night. And only that because things were getting out of hand. No one else showed up. Its not always Kobe's fault.

I remember Laker fan ripping me a new one when I said Farmar > Brown at pg.

[SierraHotel]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?
Kobe was drafted by the Charlotte Hornets>New Orleans Hornets. Did you see Farmar try to blame Pau after the first half ended. Farmar= dickhead.

[picc84]

I remember Laker fan ripping me a new one when I said Farmar > Brown at pg.

On any given night either of them is better than the other. What maintains is that they both play much better than Fisher 99% of the time, but both play much less minutes than Fisher 99% of the time.

[DPG21920]

I didnt say they aren't stacked. I said they arent the MOST stacked/talented team in the league. Which is true. Because having a recognized name is a great way to become overrated. DPG2920 knows this well, it seems.

Yeah, it is not the widespread consensus amongst the basketball pundits that the Lakers have the most talented team.

They are the most stacked team which is why they have the second best record in the league despite dealing with some injuries in the toughest conference.

What kind of logic are you using? Having a recognized name is a great way to become overrated? Other teams don't have recognizable names? How come they aren't overrated?

[DPG21920]

On any given night either of them is better than the other. What maintains is that they both play much better than Fisher 99% of the time, but both play much less minutes than Fisher 99% of the time.

I still maintain the Farmar is the better point guard and player. Brown on any given night might be a better fit in that system, but overall, he is not the player Farmar is.

[picc84]

Yeah, it is not the widespread consensus amongst the basketball pundits that the Lakers have the most talented team.

Maybe it was at the beginning of the season. Trades have happened. Players have regressed and others have gotten better. Things have changed. If you find anyone parroting that nonsense now, its out of habit and because LA is the defending champions, which is what most people reference when they say LA is the team to beat, not their clearly superior cast of talent.


They are the most stacked team which is why they have the second best record in the league despite dealing with some injuries in the toughest conference.

Who hasn't dealt with injuries?


What kind of logic are you using? Having a recognized name is a great way to become overrated? Other teams don't have recognizable names? How come they aren't overrated?

Yes, names can make you overrated. Its why you parrot names of LA players when they really aren't as good as you think they are. Other teams have similar talent, more toughness, and more depth. The LA is clearly best argument is old and tired.

[DPG21920]

Maybe it was at the beginning of the season. Trades have happened. Players have regressed and others have gotten better. Things have changed. If you find anyone parroting that nonsense now, its out of habit and because LA is the defending champions, which is what most people reference when they say LA is the team to beat, not their clearly superior cast of talent.

No, they say that because not only is LA the defending champ, but they are still coasting to the second best record in the league. If they weren't stacked and clearly the best team, no one would risk looking like idiots throwing themselves all over the Lakers. They have a superior cast any way you slice it.

Who would you say has a better cast?



Who hasn't dealt with injuries?

Yes, but who else has dealt with injuries and is still able to coast to the best record in the most difficult conference?




Yes, names can make you overrated. Its why you parrot names of LA players when they really aren't as good as you think they are. Other teams have similar talent and more depth. The LA is clearly best argument is old and tired.

So why aren't these other teams with the same type of recognizable names overrated?

[picc84]

I still maintain the Farmar is the better point guard and player. Brown on any given night might be a better fit in that system, but overall, he is not the player Farmar is.

Farmar is certainly the more offensively talented player, that goes without question.

But like our other argument in this thread, having more offensive talent than someone else does not necessarily mean you are a better basketball player.

[JoeTait75]

Are the Lakers clearly the best team in the league? Really?

I mean, Kobe is obviously a transcendent player, an all-time great. Pau is an elite-level player at his position, even if he has been a little up-and-down this year.

But Artest's best years are behind him. Bynum is an enigma. And at this point I don't think Fisher is even an average player at his position.

And the L.A. bench isn't even in the same zip code as Dallas's, or Cleveland's or Orlando's, to name a few.

They're a good team, they're the defending Champion and they deserve respect for that. But I am far from convinced they're on a different level than everyone else. They have their flaws, to be sure.

Also, why is it that when the Lakers get beat, when they have stretches in which they play bad basketball, they're "coasting?" Like they can just turn it on at will? I don't buy that at all.

[picc84]

No, they say that because not only is LA the defending champ, but they are still coasting to the second best record in the league.

By the skin of their teeth. If not for luck and Kobe heroics, we could easily be the 3 seed right now.


Who would you say has a better cast?

Dallas, Cleveland, Orlando, Denver, all of them have SIMILAR talent, complimented by better depth 1-12 and more toughness. Things very much relevant to how "stacked" a team is.


So why aren't these other teams with the same type of recognizable names overrated?

Winning a championship does that. Its why James Posey got that huge contract with New Orleans and hasn't lived up it. Its why Trevor Ariza got that huge contract with Houston and is now getting death threats from Rockets fans. Its why Andrew Bynum was praised after the title last year when he averaged 6 points and almost as many fouls as rebounds per game in the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

They certainly have their flaws, but their problems are ones that every other team would love to have. That does not change the fact they have the most talent where it matters and that is in their short rotations. In the playoffs, benches are somewhat limited.

Name another team that has more talent. The Cavs are the only team that you can argue is better and it is not because of talent, it is because of chemistry.

Coasting, at least how I am using it, refers not to them turning it "on or off". It refers to them having some problems, yet easily leading the best conference in basketball.

[picc84]

Are the Lakers clearly the best team in the league? Really?

I mean, Kobe is obviously a transcendent player, an all-time great. Pau is an elite-level player at his position, even if he has been a little up-and-down this year.

But Artest's best years are behind him. Bynum is an enigma. And at this point I don't think Fisher is even an average player at his position.

And the L.A. bench isn't even in the same zip code as Dallas's, or Cleveland's or Orlando's, to name a few.

They're a good team, they're the defending Champion and they deserve respect for that. But I am far from convinced they're on a different level than everyone else. They have their flaws, to be sure.

Also, why is it that when the Lakers get beat, when they have stretches in which they play bad basketball, they're "coasting?" Like they can just turn it on at will? I don't buy that at all.

GodDAMNIT why can a Cavs fan comprehend this but not a Spurs fan? :bang

[JoeTait75]

Coasting, at least how I am using it, refers not to them turning it "on or off". It refers to them having some problems, yet easily leading the best conference in basketball.

Playing in the "best conference" is mitigated by the ridiculous amount of home games they've played AND the fact that Kobe has bailed them out in a ton of close games. If anything, L.A.'s schedule has been pretty damned friendly up until fairly recently.

[DPG21920]

Playing in the "best conference" is mitigated by the ridiculous amount of home games they've played AND the fact that Kobe has bailed them out in a ton of close games. If anything, L.A.'s schedule has been pretty damned friendly up until fairly recently.

Uh no. So if they end up winning the conference, again, what will you say? They still play against better competition than the Cavs.

Lebron has not bailed the Cavs out of 25 point holes all year?

[DPG21920]

Who cares about the bench? Spurs have the best bench in the league and where does that get them? The bench comes into play but it is about the best 8 players on the team.

Who cares if Artest's best days are behind him and if Bynum is an enigma? Shaq's best days aren't behind him? Big Z's? Jamison's? Mo William's?

Bynum is still young and talented and tall and Artest (even though I don't like him) still helps that team.

I would be willing to bet if you swapped out Bynum/Pau/Artest/Odom with Anderson/Shaq/Jamison/West the Cavs would certainly be upgraded in talent.

[JoeTait75]

Uh no. So if they end up winning the conference, again, what will you say? They still play against better competition than the Cavs.

Well, they haven't won the West yet. If they do, props.

And regardless of the competition, L.A.'s schedule up until March HAS been easier than Cleveland's, simply because of the home-road disparity.

Besides, it's not as if the Cavaliers have struggled against the West. Other than against Denver- which has also given the Lake Show all sorts of problems- they've more than held their own.

[Goran Dragic]

The Lakers might not have a deep bench, but Odom is by far better than any bench player on Cleveland, Boston, Orlando etc. It's pretty obvious that at the very least on paper they have the best team in the NBA.

[DPG21920]

Well, they haven't won the West yet. If they do, props.

And regardless of the competition, L.A.'s schedule up until March HAS been easier than Cleveland's, simply because of the home-road disparity.

Besides, it's not as if the Cavaliers have struggled against the West. Other than against Denver- which has also given the Lake Show all sorts of problems- they've more than held their own.

The Lakers currently are leading the conference and have been leading all year. So what if the Cavs have held their own? The Cavs are a team that plays hard every night and in the NBA you will win a lot of regular season games that way.

If they were in the West, their record would probably not be as good. It would still be great because they play hard and are very well put together, but the point is don't try and discredit the team that by your account is not clearly the most talented team.

[Goran Dragic]

That's the scary thing about LA. We have no idea how hard they're playing right now. The 2001 Lakers by no means lit the world on fire in the regular season but then were a completely different team in the playoffs.

[TheMACHINE]

The Lakers might not have a deep bench, but Odom is by far better than any bench player on Cleveland, Boston, Orlando etc. It's pretty obvious that at the very least on paper they have the best team in the NBA.

i disagree...Cavs and Mavs looks better on paper.

[picc84]

Yep, anything that goes wrong, they're just not trying hard. LA is just that great.

[DPG21920]

LMAO at the Cavs looking better on paper.

[Lukor]

i disagree...Cavs and Mavs looks better on paper.

Now when did that happen....in the playoffs it's all about your 8 man rotation nobody gives a shit if your 10th man is the best in the league. That's why Lakers are the most talented even though they're not very deep.I'd say Cleveland is likely in 2nd place after they got Jamison for free.

[DPG21920]

Yep, anything that goes wrong, they're just not trying hard. LA is just that great.

So if they are not that good and talented how did they win a title and how are they leading the West all year and how do they have the 2nd best record in the league?

[DPG21920]

Cavs Best 9 Players:

Lebron
Jamison
Varejao
Shaq
Mo Williams
West
Parker
Big Z
Hickson

Lakers Best 9 Players:

Kobe
Pau
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Brown
Farmar
Fisher
Walton

So please show which players on the Cavs are better than the Lakers.

[picc84]

So if they are not that good and talented how did they win a title and how are they leading the West all year and how do they have the 2nd best record in the league?


We just went over that, but its no secret you like to spout the same thing over and over again.

ie.

"BYNUM/GASOL/ODOM/ARTEST/KOBE"

[JoeTait75]

So if they are not that good and talented how did they win a title and how are they leading the West all year and how do they have the 2nd best record in the league?

They are good. They are talented. They just aren't head and shoulders above the rest of the league like, say, the 2001 team.

I really don't think there is a dominant team this year.

[DPG21920]

We just went over that, but its no secret you like to spout the same thing over and over again.

ie.

"BYNUM/GASOL/ODOM/ARTEST/KOBE"

What did we go over? Are you arguing that other teams have 3 guys after the one's you listed that are so much better than the Lakers next 3 guys that things tilt to their favor with regards to talent?

[Goran Dragic]

i disagree...Cavs and Mavs looks better on paper.


Eh i think it's close but the Mavs do look pretty stacked on paper after that trade and so do the Cavs with Jamison.

This is just my view, but the importance of having an extremely deep bench is overrated. A big reason for this is that belief is that Phil Jackson is the winningest coach in modern NBA history and he has never had an extremely deep bench. That maybe backfired a few times when Karl Malone AND Horace Grant were injured so he had to use Slava Medvedenko, but beyond Toni Kukoc the Bulls' bench was horrible in the late 90's, and the bench was never a strength for the 2000-2002 Lakers. Having a better 8th man than the other team doesn't matter in the last 6 minutes of a close playoff game.

[Muser]

2001 had a Prime Shaq and young Kobe, this year has a much older Kobe and a Gasol who shits himself against tough teams.

[DPG21920]

They are good. They are talented. They just aren't head and shoulders above the rest of the league like, say, the 2001 team.

I really don't think there is a dominant team this year.

I do. I think the Cavs and Lakers are dominant. I think the Mavs might be able to get there, but I doubt it.

I think the Lakers clearly have more talent where it matters, but that does not mean they are invincible. Especially if they don't gel as well as a team like the Cavs.

[DPG21920]

Spurs bench: Manu/McDyess/Richard Jefferson/Bonner/Mason

[picc84]

Cavs Best 9 Players:

Lebron
Jamison
Varejao
Shaq
Mo Williams
West
Parker
Big Z
Hickson

Lakers Best 9 Players:

Kobe
Pau
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Brown
Farmar
Fisher
Walton

So please show which players on the Cavs are better than the Lakers.

Why don't you explain why the Lakers players are so much better than the Cavs'? I see no real difference there.

[Goran Dragic]

Yep, anything that goes wrong, they're just not trying hard. LA is just that great.


Dude, your team is 46-17. There's really nothing major "going wrong". Yeah, they've lost two games. I can see cause for concern because of Bynum and Gasol's attitude. Artest is playing well. Odom always plays half assed basketball during the regular season. Gasol probably figured he'll play hard to earn his extension and then coast till the playoffs. Once Phil has a group of players who have been there done that he has a history of letting them coast.

[picc84]

Spurs bench: Manu/McDyess/Richard Jefferson/Bonner/Mason

Outside of Manu, that bench is shit. Whats your point?

[DPG21920]

Outside of Manu, that bench is shit. Whats your point?

This just shows your non-sense? Shit? That just shows you greatly over exaggerate everything. Spurs have the best "bench" in the league by all statistical measures.

I am sure Dice is shit compared to other bench bigs coming off the bench. I am sure Richard Jefferson is shit compared to other bench players. I am sure 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the league are shit compared to that "trash" LA has on their bench.

[DPG21920]

Why don't you explain why the Lakers players are so much better than the Cavs'? I see no real difference there.

So then go on record. You think Williams/Lebron/Jamison/Varejao/Shaq is better or the same as Kobe/Pau/Odom/Artest/Bynum?

The 5 best players for each team...

[picc84]

Dude, your team is 46-17. There's really nothing major "going wrong". Yeah, they've lost two games. I can see cause for concern because of Bynum and Gasol's attitude. Artest is playing well. Odom always plays half assed basketball during the regular season. Gasol probably figured he'll play hard to earn his extension and then coast till the playoffs. Once Phil has a group of players who have been there done that he has a history of letting them coast.

This is how I know you aren't really coming from a point of credibility that someone who has really watched the Lakers this year would have.

Bynum and Gasol's attitudes aren't a problem this year, both of them have very basketball-related issues that are affecting their performances.

And Odom is not playing half-assed this year, he's actually playing hard every night for the first time in years.

Having a fantastic record is not indicative of real, SERIOUS problems not existing. Just ask the 2007 Mavs or the Cavaliers last year. Or the Pistons from 2005-2008. Our record being as good as it is means absolutely nothing as far as i'm concerned, as someone who has watched every game and knows the team inside and out.

[Muser]

Outside of Manu, that bench is shit. Whats your point?

:lmao

[picc84]

So then go on record. You think Williams/Lebron/Jamison/Varejao/Shaq is better or the same as Kobe/Pau/Odom/Artest/Bynum?

The 5 best players for each team...

The Cavs starters and bench at least equal the overall basketball-related ability of the Lakers.

[Goran Dragic]

This is how I know you aren't really coming from a point of credibility that someone who has really watched the Lakers this year would have.

Bynum and Gasol's attitudes aren't a problem this year, both of them have very basketball-related issues that are affecting their performances.

And Odom is not playing half-assed this year, he's actually playing hard every night for the first time in years.

Having a fantastic record is not indicative of real, SERIOUS problems not existing. Just ask the 2007 Mavs or the Cavaliers last year. Or the Pistons from 2005-2008. Our record being as good as it is means absolutely nothing as far as i'm concerned, as someone who has watched every game and knows the team inside and out.


I'm not saying I know more about the Lakers than you so quit getting so defensive.

The 2007 Mavs and 2009 Cavs comparison makes no sense. Those two teams played extremely hard during the regular season, maybe I don't watch every LA game but you'd have to be blind to think LA is going 100% night in and night out.

[picc84]

This just shows your non-sense? Shit? That just shows you greatly over exaggerate everything. Spurs have the best "bench" in the league by all statistical measures.

I am sure Dice is shit compared to other bench bigs coming off the bench. I am sure Richard Jefferson is shit compared to other bench players. I am sure 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the league are shit compared to that "trash" LA has on their bench.

Bonner, Jefferson, and Mason? The three players Spurs fans regularly wish death upon in the main forum? :rollin And McDyess's 6 and 5 per game? How is that better than the other teams' bigs? And when did Richard Jefferson start coming off the bench anyway?

[picc84]

I'm not saying I know more about the Lakers than you so quit getting so defensive.

The 2007 Mavs and 2009 Cavs comparison makes no sense. Those two teams played extremely hard during the regular season, maybe I don't watch every LA game but you'd have to be blind to think LA is going 100% night in and night out.

I'm just saying your comments about Gasol/Bynum/Odom show you haven't really been watching the team to the point where you know if and where there is a problem or not. I wasn't trying to go in on you.

[Goran Dragic]

I'm just saying your comments about Gasol/Bynum/Odom show you haven't really been watching the team to the point where you know if and where there is a problem or not. I wasn't trying to go in on you.


What do you think Gasol and Bynum's problem is? When I see Gasol play well, sign an extension, and then immediately drop off, it seems like an attitude problem. Bynum is just a lazy sack of shit who I thought would have a huge year but can't seem to get his head right.

[DPG21920]

Bonner, Jefferson, and Mason? The three players Spurs fans regularly wish death upon in the main forum? :rollin And McDyess's 6 and 5 per game? How is that better than the other teams' bigs? And when did Richard Jefferson start coming off the bench anyway?

You said outside of Manu the Spurs bench was shit. The Spurs have had the best bench in the league all year.

RJ has been coming off the bench for about 8-10 games and that is how it is going to be going forward.

Yes, McDyess's 6 & 5.

[DPG21920]

The Cavs starters and bench at least equal the overall basketball-related ability of the Lakers.

Why can't you just answer the question? Are the Cavs 5 best players (Lebron, Jamison, Shaq, Varejao & Mo) better than or equal to the Lakers 5 best players (Kobe, Odom, Artest, Bynum & Pau)?

[DPG21920]

Look, this is not to say the Cavs don't have great talent. With the addition of Jamison, the gap is pretty close between the Lakers and the Cavs. The Mavs are pretty close as well. Maybe the Magic and Celtics, but it does not appear that way as things stand today.

But when you look at the stretch where Kobe was out and they crushed SAS, UTA & POR and then you ask yourself, "if the Cavs lost Lebron, could they do that", you see the difference imho.

[DPG21920]

Also, :lol at you dogging Dice for his 6 & 5.6 when Varejao averages 6.9 & 6.7 in more minutes and is one of CLE's top 5 players :lol

[picc84]

Why can't you just answer the question? Are the Cavs 5 best players (Lebron, Jamison, Shaq, Varejao & Mo) better than or equal to the Lakers 5 best players (Kobe, Odom, Artest, Bynum & Pau)?

Why do you keep insisting I answer this loaded question? My original point was that OVERALL the Cavs are no less stacked than LA. But just to shut you up about it:

Lebron is better than Kobe by the same margin Odom is better than Jamison, if not more.

Shaq's value is similar to Artest's, even now.

Varejao is MORE valuable than Bynum.

The only real gap in that comparison is Mo Williams to Gasol, which is neutralized by how much better the REST of the Cavs are than the REST of the Lakers. And any gap between Gasol and his respective counterpart big on the Cavs is completely obliterated by the gap between Williams and Fisher.

So yes, LA's best 5 players are slightly superior to Cleveland's, but the rest of the players are lopsided in Cleveland's favor.

[picc84]

Also, :lol at you dogging Dice for his 6 & 5.6 when Varejao averages 6.9 & 6.7 in more minutes and is one of CLE's top 5 players :lol

:lol at you not realizing defense is part of a players value

[picc84]

Look, this is not to say the Cavs don't have great talent. With the addition of Jamison, the gap is pretty close between the Lakers and the Cavs. The Mavs are pretty close as well. Maybe the Magic and Celtics, but it does not appear that way as things stand today.

But when you look at the stretch where Kobe was out and they crushed SAS, UTA & POR and then you ask yourself, "if the Cavs lost Lebron, could they do that", you see the difference imho.

SAS has been beaten by much worse teams than LA minus Kobe, Utah was on a back to back, and Portland was playing without pretty much everybody. I would actually love to see Cleveland play a few games without Lebron so everyone could see that its not 2007 anymore and they are a fucking fantastic team.

[DPG21920]

Why do you keep insisting I answer this loaded question? My original point was that OVERALL the Cavs are no less stacked than LA. But just to shut you up about it:

Lebron is better than Kobe by the same margin Odom is better than Jamison, if not more.

Shaq's value is similar to Artest's, even now.

Varejao is MORE valuable than Bynum.

The only real gap in that comparison is Mo Williams to Gasol, which is neutralized by how much better the REST of the Cavs are than the REST of the Lakers. And any gap between Gasol and his respective counterpart big on the Cavs is completely obliterated by the gap between Williams and Fisher.

So yes, LA's best 5 players are slightly superior to Cleveland's, but the rest of the players are lopsided in Cleveland's favor.

Wow that is pretty terrible analysis imo. Lebron is better than Kobe, but Kobe is still a top 3 player in the league. Pau is better than Shaq. Bynum is better than Jaimson. Odom is better than Andy. Artest and Mo are similar.

The point is that the Lakers best 5 is better than the Cavs, and assuming most teams only play 8-9 man rotations when it matters, I don't think that Big Z, West & Parker are so much better than Farmar, Brown & Fisher that it closes the gap.

Those players might help, but the bulk of the load will carried by the top 5-6 players.

So are you saying that Big Z/West/Parker are just overwhelmingly better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher?


:lol at you not realizing defense is part of a players value

Then why did you quote Dice's stats? Why do you act like Dice is some shit defender? Is he struggling? Yes. Is Andy a better defender? Yes. But you brought the numbers into the equation and Andy's offense is shit.





SAS has been beaten by much worse teams than LA minus Kobe, Utah was on a back to back, and Portland was playing without pretty much everybody. I would actually love to see Cleveland play a few games without Lebron so everyone could see that its not 2007 anymore and they are a fucking fantastic team.

Make any excuse that you want, but I don't see the Cavs winning many games like LA did without Kobe, if Lebron is out of the picture. Especially not by the margin of victory the Lakers had.

[picc84]

What do you think Gasol and Bynum's problem is? When I see Gasol play well, sign an extension, and then immediately drop off, it seems like an attitude problem. Bynum is just a lazy sack of shit who I thought would have a huge year but can't seem to get his head right.

Bynums problem is that he's not good at anything but scoring, he never passes the ball, he is extremely immature, and he has zero basketball IQ.

Gasol's problem is he's soft as leather and every team is now testing him on it and not letting him get away with finessing through the game.

There is a reason Cleveland's bigs have completely dominated our's in both games we've played this year, and its not because of an attitude problem. Shaq may not have Bynums pure scoring ability anymore but he runs circles around him terms of smarts and experience. Varejao is literally everything Bynum is not, and he and Shaq both are so physical they neutralize Gasol's soft ass finesse game.

DPG seems to think a players worth is based entirely on how many moves he has on offense.

[Goran Dragic]

Jawad Williams is way better than Josh Powell, so Cleveland has the edge.

[DPG21920]

DPG seems to think a players worth is based entirely on how many moves he has on offense.

Fail. You bring up offensive numbers. Not me. Keep in mind, I am a Spurs fan. Where do the Lakers rank defensively?

[DPG21920]

Lakers are 8th in PPG against, 2nd in differential, 5th in OPP FG%, 1st in OPP 3PT%. That team sucks at defense.

[DPG21920]

Shaq and Jamison are also defensive beast. Especially Shaq in the pick and roll. Certainly better than Pau & Bynum.

[TheMACHINE]

Cavs Best 9 Players:

Lebron
Jamison
Varejao
Shaq
Mo Williams
West
Parker
Big Z
Hickson

Lakers Best 9 Players:

Kobe
Pau
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Brown
Farmar
Fisher
Walton

So please show which players on the Cavs are better than the Lakers.

lol this list alone shows why the cavs are better then the lakers.

lol Walton
lol Brown...who the hell was Shannon Brown b4 the lakers.
lol Fisher

I cant "lol" anyone on the cavs team.

[DPG21920]

No, it doesn't. It is already agreed the Laker's best 5 is better than the Cav's best 5. So you are saying Z/West/Parker are so much better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher that is closes that gap?

[picc84]

Wow that is pretty terrible analysis imo. Lebron is better than Kobe, but Kobe is still a top 3 player in the league. Pau is better than Shaq. Bynum is better than Jaimson. Odom is better than Andy. Artest and Mo are similar.

All you did was change around which player was compared to who. You can't really dispute that my comparisons were accurate. Your's are too. We both agree that the 5 best players on each team lean slightly to LA. But once again, that is not and never was the main point of my argument.


and assuming most teams only play 8-9 man rotations when it matters, I don't think that Big Z, West & Parker are so much better than Farmar, Brown & Fisher that it closes the gap.

Last year we ran a 10 man rotation in the playoffs. You can act like the 5 extra players on both teams are insignificant all you want, we both know its bullshit.

As for the bolded part, why do you keep acting like the gap between the LA best 5 and Cleveland's is so large? Its certainly no bigger than the one between the rest of the teams.


So are you saying that Big Z/West/Parker are just overwhelmingly better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher?

West/Parker/Hickson/Big Z/Gibson is not even in the same ballpark as Farmar/Brown/Powell/Walton/Fisher. Delonte West by himself is worth any two of those players.


Then why did you quote Dice's stats? Why do you act like Dice is some shit defender? Is he struggling? Yes. Is Andy a better defender? Yes. But you brought the numbers into the equation and Andy's offense is shit.

Are you really trying to act like there is any comparison at all between McDyess and Varejao? This strikes me as very disingenuous. Varejao has better stats AND blows him away in intangibles. Drop it.


Make any excuse that you want, but I don't see the Cavs winning many games like LA did without Kobe, if Lebron is out of the picture. Especially not by the margin of victory the Lakers had.

I know you don't. Thats why after Lebrons eventual injury I will be very amused when this argument is exposed for the crap it is.

Not that I am pulling for Lebron to get injured. I am not.

[picc84]

Shaq and Jamison are also defensive beast. Especially Shaq in the pick and roll. Certainly better than Pau & Bynum.

Yeah, because Bynum is a terror on the pick and roll. :lol

If you are so aware of defense's value, why did you compare McDyess with Varejao?

[DPG21920]

Including guys like Daniel Gibson who is absolutely terrible along with a guy like Hickson who won't play does not change the fact that it is all about the best 5-6 players. The percentage of weight of responsibility that lies on those players is far greater than the next 2-3 guys.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because Bynum is a terror on the pick and roll. :lol

If you are so aware of defense's value, why did you compare McDyess with Varejao?

What are you talking about? I said that Dice was on the bench. You said everyone outside of Manu sucks and you specifically referenced Dice's numbers. I posted Andy's numbers which really aren't much better as a basis of comparison to show you how hypocritical it is to bring numbers into it in that regard.

If you are going to dog Dice's numbers and ignore his "intangibles", then Andy's numbers need to be scrutinized as well because they aren't really much better.

Had nothing to do with defense and everything to do with you bringing up offensive numbers as a reference to why Dice "sucks".

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because Bynum is a terror on the pick and roll. :lol

If you are so aware of defense's value, why did you compare McDyess with Varejao?

So Shaq & Jamison are better defensively than Bynum & Pau? Mo Williams is a good defender? Odom and Artest and Kobe are not good defenders?

[TheMACHINE]

No, it doesn't. It is already agreed the Laker's best 5 is better than the Cav's best 5. So you are saying Z/West/Parker are so much better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher that is closes that gap?

best 9 overall is better for cavs

[picc84]

Including guys like Daniel Gibson who is absolutely terrible along with a guy like Hickson who won't play does not change the fact that it is all about the best 5-6 players. The percentage of weight of responsibility that lies on those players is far greater than the next 2-3 guys.

Thats not a fact.

Neither is "Hickson won't play".

Try again.

[picc84]

What are you talking about? I said that Dice was on the bench. You said everyone outside of Manu sucks and you specifically referenced Dice's numbers. I posted Andy's numbers which really aren't much better as a basis of comparison to show you how hypocritical it is to bring numbers into it in that regard.

If you are going to dog Dice's numbers and ignore his "intangibles", then Andy's numbers need to be scrutinized as well because they aren't really much better.

Had nothing to do with defense and everything to do with you bringing up offensive numbers as a reference to why Dice "sucks".

Fair enough.

[DPG21920]

Thats not a fact.

Neither is "Hickson won't play".

Try again.

It is a fact that the teams best 5-6 players are the most important. So Hickson is going to play over Andy/Shaq/Jamison/Z?

Hickson played the least amount of minutes out of Andy/Shaq/Hickson before the trade. His minutes are not going up with Jamison now on the team.

[picc84]

So Shaq & Jamison are better defensively than Bynum & Pau? Mo Williams is a good defender? Odom and Artest and Kobe are not good defenders?

Varejao is better defensively than anyone on the Lakers. Shaq is better defensively than Bynum. Lebron, West, and Parker as a defensive perimeter is at least equal to LA's.

[Killakobe81]

Conrats Bobcats ...they own the Lakers lately ...

[picc84]

It is a fact that the teams best 5-6 players are the most important.

It is not a fact that "IT IS ALL ABOUT THE 5-6 BEST PLAYERS", which is what you said.

No. Sorry.


So Hickson is going to play over Andy/Shaq/Jamison/Z?

Funny how you just unintentionally made a point about how deep and good the Cavs frontcourt rotation is.

But we're the stacked one.

Right. :wakeup

[j.dizzle]

LOL Lakers are lazy as fuck & dont think playing hard every night is important. No big deal..They lost in Mia, Charlotte, & Orl last year too..One thing that bothers me though is Gasol opening his mouth way too much lmao that fool is annoying as hell..One game he says "We're the best team" & the next game he says "We're not confident in what we're doing" or "I need more touches" etc hahaha...Euro's are so god damn feminine hahahaa

[spursfan1000]

lol a lakers fan makin fun of his own team, this is priceless.

[badfish22]

:lmao at Kobefan saying their team isn't stacked.

They have the best record in the conference and won the Championship last year.


They have to be stacked to do that

[picc84]

Also its tough for me swallow your "bench doesn't matter" argument when we lost the 2008 finals in large part due to Boston's bench completely dominating ours. Leon Powe, James Posey, and Eddie House were huge parts of the Celtics beating us. But according to your crackpot theories, they were insignificant. FOH.

[djohn2oo8]

LOL Lakers are lazy as fuck & dont think playing hard every night is important. No big deal..They lost in Mia, Charlotte, & Orl last year too..One thing that bothers me though is Gasol opening his mouth way too much lmao that fool is annoying as hell..One game he says "We're the best team" & the next game he says "We're not confident in what we're doing" or "I need more touches" etc hahaha...Euro's are so god damn feminine hahahaa

If they can't turn it on now, how can they do it come the playoffs? They did it last year, but this year is different. I think their most dangerous competition could come from the 8th seed, if the Lakers don't want to take them seriously. As long as the 8th seed is equipped with capable big men, then it might be an entertaining series

[picc84]

:lmao at Kobefan saying their team isn't stacked.



Who said that?

[djohn2oo8]

Conrats Bobcats ...they own the Lakers lately ...

In the words of Phil Jackson: "That's just bad karma"

[djohn2oo8]

Who said that?

read the last couple of pages, u'll see

[badfish22]

But we're the stacked one.

Right. :wakeup

[picc84]

I've agreed that the Lakers are stacked numerous times in this thread.

[badfish22]

guys keep saying this, as if repeating it over and over makes it true.

[j.dizzle]

If they can't turn it on now, how can they do it come the playoffs? They did it last year, but this year is different. I think their most dangerous competition could come from the 8th seed, if the Lakers don't want to take them seriously. As long as the 8th seed is equipped with capable big men, then it might be an entertaining series
Son, we'll just wait & see I guess..A Rocket team with a 6 foot 8 center took them to 7 games last season hahaha thats just the makeup of this team..They look like champs one game then lose by 15-20 the next..Dont make sense but I'm used to that shit over the years.:toast Its the bandwagon fans that piss me..They wanna slit their wrists after every loss for some reason haha.

[picc84]

Right. :wakeup

[DPG21920]

Varejao is better defensively than anyone on the Lakers. Shaq is better defensively than Bynum. Lebron, West, and Parker as a defensive perimeter is at least equal to LA's.

Well this is where our major disconnect is I guess. I think that Bynum/Pau/Odom is better defensively than Andy/Shaq/Jamison. Then Lebron/Parker/West is better than Kobe/Artest/Fisher, but the Lakers perimeter defense is good, hence the low FG% and 3PT%.

[DPG21920]

It is not a fact that "IT IS ALL ABOUT THE 5-6 BEST PLAYERS", which is what you said.

No. Sorry.



Funny how you just unintentionally made a point about how deep and good the Cavs frontcourt rotation is.

But we're the stacked one.

Right. :wakeup

Guy, you are just arguing semantics now. Saying "it is all about the 5-6 best players" & saying "the 5-6 best players are the most important" is very much the same thing if you are not anal.

My point has remained consistent. When it comes down to it, the best players win you championships. Yes, role players play a pivotal role, but they are only able to do so when put in a position to win by the best players. Lakers have the best top 6 in the league and that is what makes the difference the in the vast majority of situations.

Just because the Mike Brown chooses to play Big Z & Shaq over Hickson does not mean they are more "stacked" up front than LA. The players that are going to play are Anderson/Shaq/Jamison. Bringing Hickson into the equation is a moot point is all.

[DPG21920]

I get your point about it not being ridiculously in LA's favor, but I still think it is in favor of them with regards talent. The Cavs are close enough, that if LA is not able to pick it up, they will lose.

[picc84]

Well this is where our major disconnect is I guess. I think that Bynum/Pau/Odom is better defensively than Andy/Shaq/Jamison. Then Lebron/Parker/West is better than Kobe/Artest/Fisher, but the Lakers perimeter defense is good, hence the low FG% and 3PT%.

I can understand where that comes from. But again, I have to bring up the overration. Bynum is not much better on defense than Jamison right now. You would THINK he would be, as tall and big as he is, but thats what makes it all the more pathetic. When he leaves, the defense improves.

Gasol is underrated defensively, but he is not much better than Shaq on this aspect, if at all. His PnR defense is better, obviously, but Shaq defends the post and alters shots better. Odom is also underrated defensively, but obviously he's still not as good as Varejao.

Bynum slightly > Jamison
Gasol = Shaq
Varejao >>> Odom

[picc84]

Guy, you are just arguing semantics now. Saying "it is all about the 5-6 best players" & saying "the 5-6 best players are the most important" is very much the same thing if you are not anal.

Its not semantics. The 5-6 best players being the most important is very different than them being the ONLY important players, which is what you first said. That is a huge deal. Benches play critical roles in titles all the time and you completely dismissed them with your comment.


My point has remained consistent. When it comes down to it, the best players win you championships. Yes, role players play a pivotal role, but they are only able to do so when put in a position to win by the best players. Lakers have the best top 6 in the league and that is what makes the difference the in the vast majority of situations.

Actually, when the top 5-6 are comparable, which they are in this situation, its the bench which makes the difference in the vast majority of situations. How you can not know that I don't understand.


Just because the Mike Brown chooses to play Big Z & Shaq over Hickson does not mean they are more "stacked" up front than LA. The players that are going to play are Anderson/Shaq/Jamison. Bringing Hickson into the equation is a moot point is all.

Hickson will play in the playoffs and he will contribute. He is a very good player. There is a reason Phx was considering trading Stoudemire for him. Ask any Cavs fan and they will tell you. You are just mistaken on this front.

[DPG21920]

I disagree with pretty much everything you say on the subject, but I am tired of debating it.

JJ Hickson was behind Big Z who is old and slow and that was before the Jamison trade. There is no minutes for him. He will be a non factor. You are overrating him badly and the Suns did not trade Amare for him because they are not idiots.

[Goran Dragic]

There is a reason Phx was considering trading Stoudemire for him.


:lmao

[Muser]

Phoenix wanted to trade Amare for Hickson :lmao

[Goran Dragic]

Those cash considerations Boston had in 2006 were valuable. There's a reason Phoenix traded Rajon Rondo for them.

[Muser]

Watching the highlights...:lmao @ the Spurs FO for not trading for Tyrus Thomas. The guy would've been huge here..

[j.dizzle]

Watching the highlights...:lmao @ the Spurs FO for not trading for Tyrus Thomas. The guy would've been huge here..
Son, I dont understand why SA never made a move for a legit big when their best big after Duncan is 6 foot 6 hahaa shit makes no sense..Especially after Dallas picked up another big. I guess you guys will get to see POP use small ball the rest of the year :lol

[picc84]

Hickson would have brought a championship to Phoenix.

[JoeTait75]

Including guys like Daniel Gibson who is absolutely terrible along with a guy like Hickson who won't play does not change the fact that it is all about the best 5-6 players. The percentage of weight of responsibility that lies on those players is far greater than the next 2-3 guys.

Not for nothing, but Daniel Gibson is a long way from terrible. He's one of the better three-point shooters in the league and moreover he's a tough, clutch player. A little one-dimensional, yeah, but that one dimension is pretty damn good. I think he should play more. I also think if he played for L.A. he'd be in their rotation. I don't think he gives anything away to Farmar or Brown.

[picc84]

I disagree with pretty much everything you say on the subject, but I am tired of debating it.

JJ Hickson was behind Big Z who is old and slow and that was before the Jamison trade. There is no minutes for him. He will be a non factor. You are overrating him badly and the Suns did not trade Amare for him because they are not idiots.

How am I overrating him? I didnt say he was as good as Amare or anywhere near it. The thing about Phoenix was just to illustrate that other teams see he has talent.

The point is he's a decent player and part of a second unit thats way better than ours. You haven't proved some wide chasm between the top 5 of each team, and you cant even come close to proving the rest of LA is anywhere near as good as the rest of Cleveland. Your theory about LA being clearly the most stacked team in the league is crackpot and doesn't have a leg to stand on in todays NBA.

Now we end debate./

[DPG21920]

SAS has been beaten by much worse teams than LA minus Kobe, Utah was on a back to back, and Portland was playing without pretty much everybody. I would actually love to see Cleveland play a few games without Lebron so everyone could see that its not 2007 anymore and they are a fucking fantastic team.

Well, well, well.

[DPG21920]

Nothing Picc?

[badfish22]

:lmao kobefan

[DPG21920]

I mean sweet mother of getting what you ask for :wow

[DPG21920]

I mean sweet mother of getting what you ask for :wow

JJ Hickson, it was your time to shine.

0-2, 1 point & 5 boards. 4 TO's.

[turiaf for president]

Isn't it ironic that Charlotte drafted Kobe, and they still own him?

:lol

[picc84]

Nothing Picc?

And to think, you're dead serious about this too. :lol And the night after LA gets blown out against a team 3 seeds behind Milwaukee on a back to back, at full strength. :rollin

[DAF86]

And to think, you're dead serious about this too. :lol And the night after LA gets blown out against a team 3 seeds behind Milwaukee on a back to back, at full strength. :rollin

Just concede defeat and move on.

[picc84]

Ok, I concede that losing in Mil on a b2b without Shaq and Z by 6 points proves LA is better than Cleveland. If a fully healthy Cavs team was more stacked than the Lakers, they would have won last nights game.

:wakeup

[DAF86]

Ok, I concede that losing in Mil on a b2b without Shaq and Z by 6 points proves LA is better than Cleveland. If a fully healthy Cavs team was more stacked than the Lakers, they would have won last nights game.

:wakeup

They were doing just fine without Shaq and Z, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Lebron not playing yesterday was the reason Cleveland lost. Also: Utah, San Antonio, Portland and all the teams that LA beat without Kobe are all better than the fricking Milwaukee Bucks.

[picc84]

They were doing just fine without Shaq and Z

LA was doing just fine without Kobe. Kobe = inconsequential.


Ok, I concede that losing in Mil on a b2b without Shaq and Z by 6 points proves LA is better than Cleveland.

:wakeup

[DPG21920]

Picc, you clearly said you would like to see the Cavs without Bron because it would "end the stupid argument".

They lost. Not only did they not blow out 3 western conference playoff teams in a row, but they lost to the Bucks.

[DPG21920]

You also said JJ Hickson will have an impact. Do I need to quote his line?

[picc84]

I want to know if you think Cleveland losing in Milwaukee by 6 on a b2b, without Shaq and Z, proves that the Lakers are more stacked than Cleveland top to bottom. Please answer this question "yes" or "no".

I didn't say Cleveland playing without Lebron would prove they are better than the Lakers. I said they would prove they are a fantastic team even without him. And they are. How about giving them more than a single game on a b2b before you start gloating?

[picc84]

You also said JJ Hickson will have an impact. Do I need to quote his line?

Was this his first game this season?

[DPG21920]

So losing to the Bucks without Lebron proves they are fantastic team without Lebron? While at the same time, LA destroying SAS, UTA & POR without Kobe shows the Cavs are more stacked?

Also, what about Hickson?

[DPG21920]

Was this his first game this season?

Why was he behind Shaq/Z/Anderson in the rotation before the trade and now behind Shaq/Z/Anderson/Jamison afterward?

Where will his impact playoff minutes come from?

[picc84]

So losing to the Bucks without Lebron proves they are fantastic team without Lebron?

I meant they are still a fantastic team outside of Lebron. Not that last night proved it.

And how about you answer my question?

[picc84]

Why was he behind Shaq/Z/Anderson in the rotation before the trade and now behind Shaq/Z/Anderson/Jamison afterward?

Where will his impact playoff minutes come from?

Because the Cavs are incredibly stacked up front. As you just pointed out. :lol

[DPG21920]

Well, you were coming up with all kinds of reasons on how the Cavs were deeper and I said take out Kobe from LA and Lebron from CLE and see which team does better.

We have seen that. There is nothing left to discuss.

[DPG21920]

Because the Cavs are stacked up front. As you just pointed out. :lol

They are decent up front but if a player cannot beat out Big Z, he is probably not going to make an impact for the logical reasons I pointed out. You on the other hand are making terrible arguments to the contrary.

[picc84]

Well, you were coming up with all kinds of reasons on how the Cavs were deeper and I said take out Kobe from LA and Lebron from CLE and see which team does better.

We have seen that. There is nothing left to discuss.

Just another day. :wakeup

[picc84]

They are decent up front but if a player cannot beat out Big Z, he is probably not going to make an impact for the logical reasons I pointed out. You on the other hand are making terrible arguments to the contrary.

If he never gets PT, why was he destroying the Lakers a month ago in Cleveland all game?

Must have been a ghost.

Surely if last night proves he is a scrub, the game vs us proves he is an allstar.

But oh wait, that wouldnt support your argument. :wakeup

[DPG21920]

You aren't doing too well at this. I never said he was incapable of having a good game. I never said he does not get minutes. I said he would not be an impact player in the playoffs and it does nothing to add him to the depth argument. I showed you the reasons why. He is behind 4 guys in the rotation.

He won't have an impact in the playoffs, like you were spewing. No more than the occasional burst that Powell gives the Lakers.

Sorry bout it.

[DPG21920]

But I am going to go ahead and stop while you're behind.

[mogrovejo]

Also: Utah, San Antonio, Portland and all the teams that LA beat without Kobe are all better than the fricking Milwaukee Bucks.

Maybe. But there's a good chance you're dramatically underestimating the Bucks.

[mogrovejo]

The Bucks have been the second best team in the Eastern Conference over the past month and a half. They have won 17 of their past 23 games. They were 8-3 before Redd's return and 18-10 since he went down again. Redd's temporary return (out of sync) + Bogut's injury and additional time to regain game shape cost them a terrible month in terms of playing quality + wins.

When Bogut is healthy, the Bucks are a top-3 defensive team + top-3 rebounding team. With Salmons they now have the additional scorer/shot-creator they needed to elevate their offense to passable.

[picc84]

You aren't doing too well at this. I never said he was incapable of having a good game. I never said he does not get minutes. I said he would not be an impact player in the playoffs and it does nothing to add him to the depth argument. I showed you the reasons why. He is behind 4 guys in the rotation.

He won't have an impact in the playoffs, like you were spewing. No more than the occasional burst that Powell gives the Lakers.


That might be true. He's still better than Powell or any other of our bench bigs. And the the other Cavs role players are still much better than our's. You can downplay that significance all you want but NBA history disagrees that they are not important.

[picc84]

But I am going to go ahead and stop while you're behind.

Don't. Please tell me more about how last night proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that LA is more stacked than Cleveland. Its especially amusing me since we've lost 2 straight at full strength to teams worse than the Bucks, and needed an overtime buzzer beater to beat them this season, at full strength.

[DAF86]

That might be true. He's still better than Powell or any other of our bench bigs. And the the other Cavs role players are still much better than our's. You can downplay that significance all you want but NBA history disagrees that they are not important.

Yeah, I'm sure he's better than Lamar Odom.

[DAF86]

Maybe. But there's a good chance you're dramatically underestimating the Bucks.

Nope, I already knew they were playing great ball.

[picc84]

LA is "clearly the most stacked team in the league", and "blows everyone else away in talent".

[DPG21920]

"I would love to see the Cavs play without Lebron" because "it would show everyone this is not 2007 and they have a great team".....that loses to the Bucks.

[picc84]

A truly great team would beat every non-contender. Like the Lakers do. :lol

[AnthonyM]

A truly great team would beat every non-contender. Like the Lakers do. :lol

And the Spurs.

[djohn2oo8]

And the Spurs.

:lol Nice joke

[DPG21920]

No Bron today. It would suck if the Cavs beat the Spurs in order to prove Picc's point. That would be a double dose of STFU to me :lol

[DPG21920]

No Bron today. It would suck if the Cavs beat the Spurs in order to prove Picc's point. That would be a double dose of STFU to me :lol

Shhhh.

[DPG21920]

Pic, what do you mean. He still has a team that blows everyone away in talent.

Easily.

[DPG21920]

Most talent hands down.

[HarlemHeat37]

Oh, there's no argument..he has the best supporting cast of the post-80s era off the top of my head..

[DPG21920]

Damn this was an easy title to predict.

[DJ Mbenga]

Oh, there's no argument..he has the best supporting cast of the post-80s era off the top of my head..

i cant argue against you. jordan had excellent role players. lakers have more talent. the problem is they are horribly inconsistent.

[DPG21920]

They are not inconsistent. They are so much better than everyone they get bored. They coast to 60+ wins and titles. They STACKED.