"Schools kill creativity"

[Kamnik]

A very interesting point is made in this TED presentation. I was thinking about this for some time before I found this video.

To me it seems educational system in schools and universities across the world is extremely flawed to serve the purposes of capitalism and keeping people simple minded.

Would you agree with Ken Robinson?

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

p.s.

If anyone is interested in another extremely interesting video I can recomend Bill Gates. (about energy)

[baseline bum]

A very interesting point is made in this TED presentation. I was thinking about this for some time before I found this video.

To me it seems educational system in schools and universities across the world is extremely flawed to serve the purposes of capitalism and keeping people simple minded.

Would you agree with Ken Robinson?

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

p.s.

If anyone is interested in another extremely interesting video I can recomend Bill Gates. (about energy)

The thread was posted here a while back. I thought it was a very cool presentation, and if you're interested in education, I linked a fascinating presentation by Alan Kay, the man who created the GUI operating system, object-oriented programming, and first came up with the concept of the laptop. He did lots of really interesting research into how children think that he details in the talk linked there.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147444&highlight=creativity

I'll check the Gates video, though I have my doubts about him in this context, considering he made his money stealing Alan Kay's ideas and being a cunning businessman much moreso than being any kind of real technical innovator. Not to diminish what he did too much though; Gates saw a market when the rest of the world thought computers were just shit you used at work, and he pounced. I'm glad he, Allen, and Ballmer and Jobs & Woczniak saw opportunity where Xerox and IBM were too stupid to look to the future.

[Scola]

I definitely agree with this at the High School level. I remember taking "Art III : Drawing", and it was a total joke. The teacher had us drawing stick people the entire semester. If I ever finished my assignment early, I had to tutor the stupidest kid in the class. It pretty much killed any creativity or enthusiasm.

Maybe its more of knock on the public school system. From an educational point of view, I felt that High School was a waste of time. I would of accomplished much more if I had dropped out freshman year and just taught the stuff to myself. If I ever have kids I'll probably end up sending them to a private school.

[Nbadan]

you can't fix education in school until you fix discipline in schools...right now the biggest problem in TX schools is that bad kids stay in regular classrooms far too long and it hurts the education of the 75-80% of kids who do want to learn...we need to fix the way we allocate money based on daily attendance because it discourages districts from suspending or discipiling and sending bad kids to alternative schools.....that and, bring the paddle back for boys.

[Nbadan]

..and schools can stifle creativity..

[L.I.T]

Really...across the world?

It's easy to bitch about the quality of your education after you've received one.

[Kamnik]

The thread was posted here a while back. I thought it was a very cool presentation, and if you're interested in education, I linked a fascinating presentation by Alan Kay, the man who created the GUI operating system, object-oriented programming, and first came up with the concept of the laptop. He did lots of really interesting research into how children think that he details in the talk linked there.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147444&highlight=creativity

I'll check the Gates video, though I have my doubts about him in this context, considering he made his money stealing Alan Kay's ideas and being a cunning businessman much moreso than being any kind of real technical innovator. Not to diminish what he did too much though; Gates saw a market when the rest of the world thought computers were just shit you used at work, and he pounced. I'm glad he, Allen, and Ballmer and Jobs & Woczniak saw opportunity where Xerox and IBM were too stupid to look to the future.

Cool, I'll check Alan Kay presentation out... sounds interesting.

[Nash2TimeMVp]

I didn't learn jackshit in highschool, pretty pointless and unchallenging. Now i meet ppl from indonesia/korea/pakistan and i talk to them about highschool and they were basically learning what they teach us in college now.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm

[Goran Dragic]

I didn't learn jackshit in highschool, pretty pointless and unchallenging. Now i meet ppl from indonesia/korea/pakistan and i talk to them about highschool and they were basically learning what they teach us in college now.


Sons this is sad but true. America is falling behind in education.

[Marcus Bryant]

And of course schools created in the industrial age to train the requisite workforce are designed to curtail "creativity" and demand conformity.

[Wild Cobra]

A very interesting point is made in this TED presentation. I was thinking about this for some time before I found this video.

To me it seems educational system in schools and universities across the world is extremely flawed to serve the purposes of capitalism and keeping people simple minded.

Would you agree with Ken Robinson?

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

p.s.

If anyone is interested in another extremely interesting video I can recomend Bill Gates. (about energy)
I agree with most of your point. However, it's the "socializing," "political correctness," "anti-christian," "liberalism," etc. that is killing creativity. Not capitalism.

Schools are becoming more and more, centers of indoctrinating our kids to anti-American values. This has all started once the department of Education was formed in the late 70's.

[baseline bum]

I agree with most of your point. However, it's the "socializing," "political correctness," "anti-christian," "liberalism," etc. that is killing creativity. Not capitalism.

Schools are becoming more and more, centers of indoctrinating our kids to anti-American values. This has all started once the department of Education was formed in the late 70's.

Nice conspiracy theory there, mouse.

[Wild Cobra]

Nice conspiracy theory there, mouse.
ouch...

[Duff McCartney]

I agree with most of your point. However, it's the "socializing," "political correctness," "anti-christian," "liberalism," etc. that is killing creativity. Not capitalism.

You must be an idiot. Nobody said it had to do with capitalism. And the education has nothing to do with liberalism either.

It has to do with this country not prioritizing education like other countries. 1.32% of the budget is spent on education in this country. 1.32%!!

France spends 7.2% of GDP on Education.

Don't be stupid and think this has to do with political correctness or anti-christian.

[Wild Cobra]

You must be an idiot. Nobody said it had to do with capitalism. And the education has nothing to do with liberalism either.

It has to do with this country not prioritizing education like other countries. 1.32% of the budget is spent on education in this country. 1.32%!!

France spends 7.2% of GDP on Education.

Don't be stupid and think this has to do with political correctness or anti-christian.
from the original posting:

To me it seems educational system in schools and universities across the world is extremely flawed to serve the purposes of capitalism and keeping people simple minded.

[Marcus Bryant]

American schooling was designed to support industrial capitalism and American nationalism. Your assertion takes this as a given. It's only deviations from that to which you object.

[sabar]

The big problem is parents. They're lazy and stupid (for the most part). Give your kid a pencil and paper. Some chalk and a slate. A computer and a compiler. Sit down and teach them something.

American children are given a routine where they are institutionalized at a poor government school for 8 hours and come home to play with whatever technological innovation is available at the time for 8 hours. Cell phones, video games, mp3 players, cd players, cassette players, TV, radio. Its all mind-numbing drivel that inept parents spoonfeed their children so that they can get away from their kid after their crappy job.

Garbage schools are only one facet of the problem.


American schooling was designed to support industrial capitalism and American nationalism

It doesn't even do THAT mundane task anymore. The federal gov't hands out some laundry list of "essential" items to learn and that's that. I used to think that maybe we are raising children to mindlessly vote in the people that made this scheme; I've realized since that they need only be made mindless.


However, it's the "socializing," "political correctness," "anti-christian," "liberalism," etc. that is killing creativity. Not capitalism.

You give schools far too much credit. My high school taught none of those and churned out drop-outs and retards like a machine. Also, political correctness is hardly an impediment to creativity judging by how often I heard racial slurs from my peers.

[Sotongball21]

I didn't learn jackshit in highschool, pretty pointless and unchallenging. Now i meet ppl from indonesia/korea/pakistan and i talk to them about highschool and they were basically learning what they teach us in college now.

May i ask, what do you guys learn in High School?
In context of Science (chemistry, physics and biology) and Mathematics.

Yes and to a great extent, school kills creativity because we are confined to a classroom without knowledge of the world.

We spend 3/4 of the day in school and 1/4 of the day out of school. We will not be able to appreciate nature, flora and fauna and ingrain them into our heads.

[desflood]

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm
Gatto knows his shit. The guy was in the heart of the problem for 30 years. He should be celebrated as a hero for telling the truth when no one else will.

[boutons_deux]

While there is a body of facts and skills (inter-generational cultural transmission) that must be mastered (rote, drills work are good as any technique. "everybody's a Superstar/Goldstar/Self-esteem" is purely dishonest crap) in K12, what's supremely important, but seems never to taught, is:

1. how to learn (which is independent of what to learn). Anybody saying what they learn in K12 is useless in the real world doesn't understand that education is learning how to learn (your brain actually changes physically and functionally) rather than where Andorra is.

2. how to analyze and think critically. This is a very distinct discipline, with many books treating it, of "Critical Thinking".

btw, the multi-$B home-schooling textbook market is being polluted and taken over with Bible-thumping, anti-science, magical-thinking Creationist bullshit. Religion makes you stupid and dumb.

[desflood]

Not believing what you personally believe does not automatically make them stupid, boutons. It does, however, make you judgemental and close-minded to automatically label them as such.

As for the rest of your post, I agree. Children are not taught in most schools how to learn and how to reflect upon what they have learned. That keeps them much more stupid than any religion ever will.

[boutons_deux]

"Not believing what you personally believe does not automatically make them stupid"

Any "religion" that convinces people to give more to their super-wealthy pastor than they put in their own savings is bogus,

Any "religion" that convinces people that their pastor, more than other human beings, "knows the mind of God", or even knows it AT ALL, is bogus,

any "religion" that teaches Bible literalism, Creationism, Young Earthism is bogus, is promoting magical thinking.

Any "Christians" who militate for installing their flavor of "Christianity" as the preferred religion of the US govt and who desire a "Christian" theocracy are bogus Christians, and fricking dangerous.

Any adult who has been hoodwinked into believing the above bogus bullshit is stupid.

You are judgmental to call me judgmental and close-minded. :)

[velik_m]

Schools (both elementary & high school) are not meant for education, they are a place for the parents to put their kids into while they are at work, so the kids don't get in trouble (or cause trouble). If they happen to learn something while they are stuck there, it's just an added bonus.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's to train the kids to replace their parents on the assembly line when they keel over and to obey superiors, as well as to accept the political status quo and have fidelity to the national government drilled into them (and fidelity to the old country which their parents might hold nipped in the bud).

Naturally an economy which places value on creativity and problem solving would be ill-served by such an institution.

[baseline bum]

It's to train the kids to replace their parents on the assembly line when they keel over and to obey superiors, as well as to accept the political status quo and have fidelity to the national government drilled into them (and fidelity to the old country which their parents might hold nipped in the bud).

Naturally an economy which places value on creativity and problem solving would be ill-served by such an institution.

Except there's no assembly line anymore.

[Blake]

It has to do with this country not prioritizing education like other countries. 1.32% of the budget is spent on education in this country. 1.32%!!

France spends 7.2% of GDP on Education.



link?

[Marcus Bryant]

Of course expenditures on "education" at the federal level are low.

Further, if expenditures were a factor in the quality of education the US should have the greatest primary and secondary education system on Earth.

[Marcus Bryant]

Except there's no assembly line anymore.

That's the point.