Which one ref do you want/not want tonight?

[picnroll]

Want: Joey Crawford
Not want: Bennett Salvatorre (Please God no. No other ref is more clueless or gets more influenced by a crowd. If Bennet steps on the floor Spurs may as well rest the starters)

[Jimcs50]

Want Crawford, Javie

Do not want Salvatorre....that means they will get screwed.

[exstatic]

No no no Nies.

[Ginofan]

I just want someone that's gonna call a good game both ways...I love Joey but really...I just want a decent ref...that's gonna call it like it is. Technically we shouldn't be worried about refs...we can and will win this thing without them.

[whottt]

Don't want:
Bavetta
Salvatore
Palmer

That squad shouldn't be allowed to ref a streetball game.

[IX_Equilibrium]

I sure as hell don't want Bavetta either

[Clandestino]

i hate javie!

[Das Texan]

i dont want nies or salvatorre anywhere near the spurs.


palmer just sucks plain and simple.

[FromWayDowntown]

I wouldn't worry too much about who will be there. Still, here's an educated method for guessing. 35 officials have worked First Round games this year. You can subtract out anyone the Spurs have already seen (as a general rule, officials don't work the same First Round series until Game 7), which would be these 9: Ed Rush, Bill Spooner, David Jones, Steve Javie, Greg Willard, Mark Wunderlich, Dan Crawford, Scott Foster, Leon Wood.

I think you can also count out anyone who worked yesterday's games (as a general rule, in the First Round, officials don't work on back-to-back days). Of those the Spurs haven't yet seen, that would rule out Sean Corbin, Monty McCutchen, Bernie Fryer, Jack Nies, Ron Garretson, Bob Delaney, Ken Mauer.

Assuming those general rules hold, that is 16 of the 35 you can count out.

Now, of the 19 that are left, you can divide the group into three subgroups. For each, I've listed the last game worked (if you want to try to figure out geography -- I'm not sure it makes much difference)

NBA Finals Officials
Joey Crawford (gm. 2 MIA/NJ at MIA)
Dick Bavetta (Sat. at HOU)
Mike Callahan (Sat. at IND)
Joe Derosa (Gm. 3 SEA/SAC at SAC)
Bennett Salvatore (Sat. at WAS)

Conference Finals/Semi-finals Officials
Tom Washington (Sat. at WAS)
James Capers (Game 3 MIA/NJ at NJ)
Joe Forte (Game 3 PNX/MEM at MEM)
Derrick Stafford (Sat. at IND)
Jim Clark (Sat. at HOU)

Other guys (younger or older guys)
Jess Kersey (Game 3 DAL/HOU at HOU)
Bill Kennedy (Game 2 MIA/NJ at MIA)
Luis Grillo (Sat. at HOU)
Tony Brothers (Sat. at WAS)
Tim Donaghy (Game 3 PNX/MEM at MEM)
Michael Smith (Sat. at IND)
Blaine Reichelt (Game 3 SEA/SAC at SAC)
Bennie Adams (hasn't worked since first weekend)
Scott Wall (hasn't worked since first weekend)

I'd think that there will be no more than 2 from any subgroup that will be on the whistles tonight. The league doesn't generally put 3 Finals' level officials on first round games (other than Game 7's).

If you want to know before tip-off, take the list, scratch those 6 officials off the list, and you'll be down to something like 14 possibilities. But, more importantly, you should be able to have a 1-in-3 or 1-in-2 chance of identifying the likely lead official for tonight's Spurs game.

I wouldn't worry about Violet Palmer being on the whistle tonight. She's never officiated a playoff game and is at the bare minimum of experience (7 years) to qualify to call a playoff game.

[alamo50]

Dan Crawford is my favourite.

[Felonius Monk]

You will not see Palmer in a playoff game.

My guess for tonight is either Joey or Dick Bavetta.

[Taco]

No no no Nies.


Just say no to Nies

[picnroll]

We've already had Rush, Dan Crawford and Javie so scratch them. Fryer, and Garretson refed yesterday so scratch them. Strangely Joey Crawford hasn't refed a game since April 26 so he, for whatever reason, may be unlikely.

Question. I never noticed but do they let the old farts like Bavetta ref at altitude?

[Solid D]

If Bavetta or Salvatore are there tonight, the league would like to see a longer series. :hat

(Side note: Dick the Knick loves to call travelling and we all know International Players travel every trip)

I also would prefer not to see Tom Washington, Jack Nies, Monty McCutchen, Violet Palmer, Eddie F. Rush, David Jones, Mark Wunderlich.

[Solid D]

BTW, incredible critical thinking FWD. It will be interesting to see how much of that matches up.

[Jimcs50]

It is best if we do not even notice who is refing.

Frankly, I do not care, the Spurs will sweep them out from now on no matter what.

[Solid D]

I forgot about "Look the other way Jim" Clark. It depends on if you want him to look the other way or not, as to how happy you are with him.

[picnroll]

After the fiasco of a game Salvatore refed in the Spurs - Mavs series in 2003 it amazes me that they still let him do playoff games. In a way if the Spurs win tonight without Bennett refing I'd like to get him in SA. Kind of like a rectal exam, you know it's got to be done so just get it over with. Not let him be around for the next series.

[2centsworth]

You will not see Palmer in a playoff game.

My guess for tonight is either Joey or Dick Bavetta. Welcome to the board Felonius Monk.

Dan Crawford is by far the best.

I'll take Joey Crawford and Bevetta tonight.

[Jdspur20]

when will we find out? is it before game time?

[FromWayDowntown]

BTW, incredible critical thinking FWD. It will be interesting to see how much of that matches up.

I've actually charted this stuff for the last couple of years -- after wondering once about which officials are supposed to be the best and trying to find out which guys end up officiating late in the playoffs. Been able to find some trends -- actually, I nailed the Game 5 crew in the Spurs/Lakers series last year using similar reasoning and the Game 6 crew in the Spurs/Mavericks WCF in 2003.

[SpursFanDan]

Crawford... yeah.. and thats it.

[baseline bum]

The only ref I don't like is Salvatore. He calls way too many fouls. He reffed the 98 FT game 1 of the 2003 WCF, as well as game 4 of the 2003 semis when Shaq and Kobe combined for 40 FT, Duncan was in foul trouble as soon as the Spurs went up 16, and Robinson fouled out in 14 minutes for touch fouls in the paint.

[texbumTHElife]

Anyone but Nies or Javie but I really dont think it matters. The Spurs are gonna take care of business as usual.

F the refs!

[Solid D]

I actually like Steve Javie, now that David is retired. Am I a bad person? :depressed

[texbumTHElife]

Oh man I just remember the game last year against the Pistons in the regular season when the whole arena was chanting "JAVIE, JAVIE, JAVIE." It was awesome.

[FromWayDowntown]

I actually like Steve Javie, now that David is retired. Am I a bad person? :depressed

No, Solid I'm with you on that. Javie seems to have mellowed substantially and I've noticed that he's a much better official for it. And, for whatever reason, his quarrel with David Robinson has no bearing on how he views Tim Duncan.

I'm generally thankful when I see Javie in the building.

[Ishta]

NO SALVATORRE PLEASE!! I don't understand why he hates the Spurs so much... Is there some long standing feud or something?

[T Park]

Javie is the best in the league IMO, hes fair, and his explanations when on heard on tv make sense.


Joey Crawford and Clark are right behind him.


Mcutchen, Wunderlich, Bavetta, Salvatore are THE WORST.


Im sure we will get Bavetta tonight, missing calls, callng bad ones, and wanting to get Duncan Cheeseburgers left and right.

[timvp]

Wasn't there some report like two years that said that Bennett Salvatore led crews call 25% more fouls than average?

[T Park]

ohhh

No Jack Nies or the fuckin moron Louis Grillo.

[ShoogarBear]

:wow


Dood.

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/images/smilies/bow.gif

[texbumTHElife]

Joe Crawford is the f'n man. He seems to be the most ever tempered, calm cool and collected ref of all. Not only that but his entire team is top notch and instead of one official getting gung ho on the whistles the whole game they all officiate the game the same way at the same pace.

Javie and Nies...... *shudders at the thought*

After watching the Suns - Grizz series last night one of the biggest areas of concern I think the officials need to focus on in the off season is blocking/charging and the small circle. This call seems to be the most erratic by far IMO.

[50 cent]

After the fiasco of a game Salvatore refed in the Spurs - Mavs series in 2003 it amazes me that they still let him do playoff games. In a way if the Spurs win tonight without Bennett refing I'd like to get him in SA. Kind of like a rectal exam, you know it's got to be done so just get it over with. Not let him be around for the next series.
So true, so true. Please not Salvatore tonight. :drunk

[Tek_XX]

Let us not worry about the officiating, if the spurs are agressive tonight they will get the calls because the officials will have to give it to them.

But yeah there are fucking horrible refs out there and Nies leads the pack. Let's just be thankful that Hugh Hollins is no longer in the league.

[grjr]

My money Is on Bavetta tonight. I don't remember him being bad for us as long as we're not playing the Lakers.

[FromWayDowntown]

Wasn't there some report like two years that said that Bennett Salvatore led crews call 25% more fouls than average?

I can't find that one, but Game 1 of the 2003 WCF got me looking (Cuban-style) at some officiating trends. They were rough, since I couldn't isolate for particular officials and was relying entirely on data about crews of 3, but figured with enough games, there would be some truth to the numbers. Of the 12 officials who called more than 10 games that year, here are the average numbers of total fouls called (avg fouls (games) official):

43.8 (15) D. Crawford
44.8 (12) B. Delaney
45.4 (13) B. Fryer
45.9 (14) S. Javie
46.7 (10) J. Derosa
46.8 (12) R. Garretson
47.1 (10) M. Callahan
47.2 (13) E. Rush
51.0 (12) D. Bavetta
51.4 (10) T. Washington
51.6 (13) J. Crawford
52.7 (13) B. Salvatore

The more significant finding, I thought, was this one:

after the First Round of the 2003 Playoffs, there were 7 games in which the officials called at least 54 combined fouls. (of those, 1 was an OT game and 2 more were 2OT games).

The one common denominator of the other 4: Bennett Salvatore (Game 5 of the NBA Finals, 54 fouls; Game 1 of WCF, 72; Game 5 of Dal/Sac WCSF, 57; Game 4 of SA/LA WCSF, 57). Salvatore also happened to be on the whistle for the OT game (Game 6 of Det/Phil ECSF, 61).

So of the 7 games in which there were at least 54 combined fouls, Salvatore had 5 of them. The only other games to qualify in that category each went to 2OT (Game 3 of Dal/Sac WCSF, 56 fouls (Hue Hollins, Joey Crawford, and Mike Callahan); Game 4 of NJ/Bos ECSF, 56 fouls (Bill Spooner, Hue Hollins, and Joey Crawford)).

[Solid D]

Wasn't Dick the Knick the ref for the lone Spurs loss at MSG in '99? It's been a while but it seems like he was.

[Solid D]

Answer to the Bavetta question:

http://slam.canoe.ca/NBAPlayoffs99/jun21_ny_sa.html#summary

Game 3 1999 NBA Finals Knicks 89, Spurs 81

Officials: Dick Bavetta, Hue Hollins, Ronnie Nunn.

[Spurminator]

Ah the infamous 2003 Free Throw Shooting Contest...

Worst officiated game I've ever watched. It wasn't about particular calls, it was a matter of completely altering the game and being consistently inconsistent.

[picnroll]

Salvatore is doing the Houston = Dallas game. Cuban must heve given Stern a hum job to get Toots Salvatore. Anyway no Bennett in Denver . :elephant :elephant :elephant

[whottt]

I like Danny Crawford the best...IMO he is far and away the best...not only because the games seem fair, but because it seems like he lets the teams play for the most part and it's not a bunch of momentum killing BS fouls.

I actually agree with sentiment on Javie too...he's tough but he's actually a pretty fairminded referee, not...unless your the Lakers...I think he was the guy that ejected half the Laker team in that one game last season.

[whottt]

Bennet Salvatore just totally screwed the Rockets...Stackhouse knocked the ball out of Barry's hands from out of bounds...and Stack wasn't just a little out of bounds...his whole freaking body was out of bounds.

Horrible call in the most crucial moments that changed the complexion of the entire game and totally screwed the Rockets.


Bennet Salavatore should be fired from the NBA...this guy is the worst ref in the entire NBA...he always makes horrible calls in the deciding moments of games.

I hate that fucker...I absolutely hate him.

[picnroll]

There goes another $100,000 Van Gundy. Bet Cuban was outraged the refs blew that call.

[whottt]

My guess is that he is going to referee Wednesdays nights game in SA.

I guess if you gotta have Salvatore it's best to have him in a home game.

[picnroll]

And another $100,000 on tht fuck up.

[whottt]

This was a total ref hatchet chob on the Rockets...

Either these guys are corrupt or they are incompetent...and I don't mean incompetent lighly either...I mean incompetent.

I think we should start a campaign to keep Salvatore out of the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

They just blew another call by anticipating a foul when the Rockets had Finley trapped in the corner.

[ShoogarBear]

Man, who's choking bigger, the refs or the Mavs?

[Obstructed_View]

Just no fucking overtime, PLEASE.

[Obstructed_View]

Tmac's foot was on the line. It's probably good for him that he didn't make that shot.

[grjr]

My guess is that he is going to referee Wednesdays nights game in SA.

I guess if you gotta have Salvatore it's best to have him in a home game.

Oh, you mean like in Game 1 against the Mavs in 2003? :lol

[baseline bum]

Salvatore stole that game from Houston. If I was a Rockets fan I'd be mad as fuck. That's the single worst call I've seen since the flop Horry did in game 3 of the 2003 first round to foul Garnett out in overtime.

[RonMexico]

Steve Javie sucks at life, so he's obvious choice

[SpursFanDan]

Its sad that fans of basketball teams.. know the names of refs.

[gospursgojas]

Some of these refs have been in the NBA for years so you get to know who they are.... Steve Javie is well known though, mostly for handing out alot of techs.

[SpursFanDan]

thats true..I guess I didnt think my statement through before posting.