"We didn't win the game, but I saw what I wanted to see" - Kobe Bryant

[Koolaid_Man]

"We didn't win the game, but I saw what I wanted to see," said Kobe Bryant, who acknowledged he "cursed [teammates] out" in a Saturday practice session. "If we play with this kind of effort, it's going to be hard for a team to beat us four times in a series."


Someone please wake me up for the play-offs...these weekly celebrations and championships by Laker haters are getting out of control...but I guess I understand... enjoy. :hat


When asked about Barnes after the game, Bryant chuckled three times in a 10-second span before answering, "It's entertaining."

As reporters asked Ron Artest what he thought of Barnes, Lamar Odom yelled out from across the room, calling Barnes a "monkey" who "picked the right game to act tough."


Odom later called Barnes an "action figure" and compared him to pro wrestling legend Ric Flair, known for whipping up crowds with his antics.

[21_Blessings]

Someone please wake me up for the play-offs...

[Red Hawk #21]

They violated Matt Barnes lol, I'm kind of surprised though because most of the time players don't shit talk each other to the media, they just shit talk on the court. Guess they really don't like Barnes. Fuck it, I like this kinda shit anyway.

[Double-Up]

lol monkey ass...

[pauls931]

I saw what I wanted to see, the team that deserved to win winning.

[Manu-of-steel]

Barnes did a good job on kobe today.. He also had a cheap shot on fisher. He did what he's supposed to do.

[mogrovejo]

Lakers players said other interesting things post game:


Pau Gasol, who has averaged less than 14 points in the three losses, has a different take. He believes the defending NBA champions have been thrown out of sync because one guy again has become too dominant in the offense.

And guess who that guy would be?

"Kobe is a great player, the best offensive player out there ... but at the same time, we need to find some balance with our interior game, develop it a little more, moving the ball and changing sides,'' Gasol said gingerly, knowing he was treading on sacred territory by questioning Bryant and the offense of coach Phil Jackson. "We need to get focused on that a little more, to find balance, to find some flow.'' http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/03/07/gasol-has-inside-perspective-on-lakers-recent-woes/

Except for the part of Kobe being the best offensive player out there, he's right.

[Kobe Bryant Fan]

Kobe was the best out there. Koolaid_Man is right. 34 points. His supporting cast sucked, that's why the Lakers lost.

[Double-Up]

Kobe was the best out there. Koolaid_Man is right. 34 points. His supporting cast sucked, that's why the Lakers lost.

They sucked because he was hogging the fucking ball. I'm glad he saw what he wanted cause I did too which was a loss...LA ain't doing shit this year.

[redzero]

Again, when LeBron takes over and actually gets his team involved in the process, he's a ballhog.

When Kobe decides to go into chucker mode, it's because his teammates aren't getting the job done.

[ElNono]

Funny how Kome cockgobblers bring up the 34 points he scored, but not the 30 shots he took to get there...

[JamStone]

Kobe had 7 assists despite Fisher, Artest, Bynum, and Farmar going 7-for-31 from the field. Kobe haters love to hate. Kobe didn't play great, especially in the third quarter. But people are so blinded by Kobe hate to acknowledge it's not always Kobe's fault. Even when Kobe's teammates play horribly, it's still Kobe's fault. When Kobe has a bad game, Kobe haters pile on. When Kobe has a decent game, Kobe haters hate. When Kobe has a great game, Kobe haters will find a way to bash on him. Kobe didn't play all that great but in the fourth quarter, he carried the Lakers and put them in a position to win the game. His teammates were once again playing poorly on offense and it wasn't because he was hogging the ball.

[Hemotivo]

I saw what I wanted to see, the team that deserved to win winning.

[Fabbs]

[I]

When asked about Barnes after the game, Bryant chuckled three times in a 10-second span before answering, "It's entertaining."
How do you "chuckle" 3Xs in 10 seconds?
Is that like a Beavis n Butthead ramble?
You are making crap up. Badly.

Fake Cryant laugh at that.

[Double-Up]

Kobe had 7 assists despite Fisher, Artest, Bynum, and Farmar going 7-for-31 from the field. Kobe haters love to hate. Kobe didn't play great, especially in the third quarter. But people are so blinded by Kobe hate to acknowledge it's not always Kobe's fault. Even when Kobe's teammates play horribly, it's still Kobe's fault. When Kobe has a bad game, Kobe haters pile on. When Kobe has a decent game, Kobe haters hate. When Kobe has a great game, Kobe haters will find a way to bash on him. Kobe didn't play all that great but in the fourth quarter, he carried the Lakers and put them in a position to win the game. His teammates were once again playing poorly on offense and it wasn't because he was hogging the ball.

Gasol was 8-13 for 20 points and Bynum could have done better but only attempted 5 shots, hard to get in a rhythm when you only touch the ball once every 5-10 mins.

[EmptyMan]

"picked the right game to act tough."
Hahaha great line. Just gained some respect for Odom.

[Fabbs]

Kobe had 7 assists despite Fisher, Artest, Bynum, and Farmar going 7-for-31 from the field. Kobe haters love to hate. Kobe didn't play great, especially in the third quarter. But people are so blinded by Kobe hate to acknowledge it's not always Kobe's fault. Even when Kobe's teammates play horribly, it's still Kobe's fault. When Kobe has a bad game, Kobe haters pile on. When Kobe has a decent game, Kobe haters hate. When Kobe has a great game, Kobe haters will find a way to bash on him. Kobe didn't play all that great but in the fourth quarter, he carried the Lakers and put them in a position to win the game. His teammates were once again playing poorly on offense and it wasn't because he was hogging the ball.
Actually from the 4 minute mark till the end, Kome was 3-9.
For the qtr he was 7-15. Not bad, but he hardly "carried the Lakers and put them in a position to win." It was so obvious he was trying to upstage Matt Barnes.

So why didn't he get the ball to Gasol in the 1st 3 qtrs?

[TheMACHINE]

Gasol was 8-13 for 20 points and Bynum could have done better but only attempted 5 shots, hard to get in a rhythm when you only touch the ball once every 5-10 mins.

out of gasols 8-13, how many were from putback from offensive rebounds and how many were actually from his 1v1 post moves? Please come back with an answer.

In regards with Bynum, its hard to get in rhythm when you have foul problems and have to sit every 5 minutes.

Why dont you actually watch the game instead of looking at the box score and making shit up.

[Double-Up]

out of gasols 8-13, how many were from putback from offensive rebounds and how many were actually from his 1v1 post moves? Please come back with an answer.

In regards with Bynum, its hard to get in rhythm when you have foul problems and have to sit every 5 minutes.

Why dont you actually watch the game instead of looking at the box score and making shit up.

This isn't just about this game you dumb fuck, I'm talking about all season...it's been the same fucking case. Try again.

[cobbler]

Gasol was 8-13 for 20 points and Bynum could have done better but only attempted 5 shots, hard to get in a rhythm when you only touch the ball once every 5-10 mins.

Kobe had more assists in the game than any other player. Gasol was the only other player to shoot a decent %. Bynum only played 20 or so mins due to foul troubles. Had you seen the game you would have noticed Kobe playing facilitator throughout. But haters hate regardless of reality.

You guys make more posts about Kobe and the Lakers than all the Laker fans combined. Keep obsessing over our team. We love it!!!!:toast

[TheMACHINE]

This isn't just about this game you dumb fuck, I'm talking about all season...it's been the same fucking case. Try again.

Hey IDIOT. Look at your fucking post. Are those numbers you listed from the GAME or from the fucking SEASON? Yah, bitch. STFU.

[cobbler]

Actually from the 4 minute mark till the end, Kome was 3-9.
For the qtr he was 7-15. Not bad, but he hardly "carried the Lakers and put them in a position to win." It was so obvious he was trying to upstage Matt Barnes.

So why didn't he get the ball to Gasol in the 1st 3 qtrs?

in the last four mins, Fisher, Gasol, and Odom touched the ball 13 times between them respectively. Maybe they should do something with it instead if dishing it when the slightest of coverage converges on them.

[cobbler]

Hey IDIOT. Look at your fucking post. Are those numbers you listed from the GAME or from the fucking SEASON? Yah, bitch. STFU.

Ouuuuch!!!

...and "idiot" is a step up for Double. :toast

[Double-Up]

out of gasols 8-13, how many were from putback from offensive rebounds and how many were actually from his 1v1 post moves? Please come back with an answer.

In regards with Bynum, its hard to get in rhythm when you have foul problems and have to sit every 5 minutes.

Why dont you actually watch the game instead of looking at the box score and making shit up.

No matter what you say we know Gasol should have gotten more touches.

[Double-Up]

Ouuuuch!!!

...and "idiot" is a step up for Double. :toast

Like calling your ma a slut is a step up for her. :toast

[Double-Up]

Hey IDIOT. Look at your fucking post. Are those numbers you listed from the GAME or from the fucking SEASON? Yah, bitch. STFU.


"Kobe is a great player, the best offensive player out there ... but at the same time, we need to find some balance with our interior game, develop it a little more, moving the ball and changing sides,'' Gasol said gingerly, knowing he was treading on sacred territory by questioning Bryant and the offense of coach Phil Jackson. "We need to get focused on that a little more, to find balance, to find some flow.''

:lmao

[cobbler]

LOL at all the posters calling Pau the MVP of the Lakers only to waffle the other direction when he called for touches a month ago followed by a stretch of games where he has played the worse he has as a Laker. Then we heard all about the soft Pau, the vagina Pau, the 2008 Pau. Now he bitches again when his teamates suck (everyone but Kobe) and the haters waffle again and now he's not getting his touches because of the ballhog Bryant. A Pau who went 4 for 11 and 5 for 14 his last 2 games. Reality however says, the other players on the team should have given up their shots as they went a combined 13 for 45.

[cobbler]

Like calling your ma a slut is a step up for her. :toast

My mother has long passed, God bless.

Regardless, it doesn't change that fact the you are still an idiot.

[JamStone]

Gasol was 8-13 for 20 points and Bynum could have done better but only attempted 5 shots, hard to get in a rhythm when you only touch the ball once every 5-10 mins.

Because it's well established that Gasol is a pussy who despite his great skill set gets pushed around when teams play him physically. Gasol complains about touches but won't demand the ball during the games. Kobe often has a tendency to dominate shot attempts, but players who play with Kobe have to take it upon themselves to be more aggressive when opportunities arise for them. Unlike teams with Lebron or Wade, Kobe doesn't dominate the ball on offense. He dominates shot attempts. But in the triangle, there are ample opportunities for other players to get touches, to make plays, to score the ball. Look at Shannon Brown. He'll play less than 20 minutes and still put up 7-8 shots in a game. Odom spoke on this a couple seasons ago. He said something to the effect that he knows Kobe will get his shots. You don't have to worry about Kobe. So when you play with him, you have to be aggressive and look for your opportunities. It's funny because guys like Bynum and Gasol will scream about getting more touches but when it comes down it they still want Kobe to save them. By now, they know how Kobe plays. Especially when his teammates become tentative, Kobe will say fuck it and look for his. Why isn't Gasol demanding the ball more? Because he's a pussy. Don't blame that on Kobe.

[cobbler]

Because it's well established that Gasol is a pussy who despite his great skill set gets pushed around when teams play him physically. Gasol complains about touches but won't demand the ball during the games. Kobe often has a tendency to dominate shot attempts, but players who play with Kobe have to take it upon themselves to be more aggressive when opportunities arise for them. Unlike teams with Lebron or Wade, Kobe doesn't dominate the ball on offense. He dominates shot attempts. But in the triangle, there are ample opportunities for other players to get touches, to make plays, to score the ball. Look at Shannon Brown. He'll play less than 20 minutes and still put up 7-8 shots in a game. Odom spoke on this a couple seasons ago. He said something to the effect that he knows Kobe will get his shots. You don't have to worry about Kobe. So when you play with him, you have to be aggressive and look for your opportunities. It's funny because guys like Bynum and Gasol will scream about getting more touches but when it comes down it they still want Kobe to save them. By now, they know how Kobe plays. Especially when his teammates become tentative, Kobe will say fuck it and look for his. Why isn't Gasol demanding the ball more? Because he's a pussy. Don't blame that on Kobe.

Well said Jam. Shannon is the perfect example. I have yet to see a player cut to the basket wide open an Kobe refuse to pass him the ball. With that said, if you toss it to Kobe and just stand around and forget to continue to run the offense. You wont get it back. Shannon looks to be agressive and that is why he gets his. The haters don't see the whole court...

[mogrovejo]

Kobe had 7 assists despite Fisher, Artest, Bynum, and Farmar going 7-for-31 from the field. Kobe haters love to hate. Kobe didn't play great, especially in the third quarter. But people are so blinded by Kobe hate to acknowledge it's not always Kobe's fault. Even when Kobe's teammates play horribly, it's still Kobe's fault. When Kobe has a bad game, Kobe haters pile on. When Kobe has a decent game, Kobe haters hate. When Kobe has a great game, Kobe haters will find a way to bash on him. Kobe didn't play all that great but in the fourth quarter, he carried the Lakers and put them in a position to win the game. His teammates were once again playing poorly on offense and it wasn't because he was hogging the ball.

In the last 4 minutes of the game, Kobe shot 3-9; his teammates shot 3-4.

More importantly, I think people don't actually understand the full effects of a high usage player in a good team or the relationship between usage and efficiency. I strongly recommend you to read a paper called "The Price of Anarchy in Basketball", especially the part about Braess's Paradox :

http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.1801

[DAF86]

Because it's well established that Gasol is a pussy who despite his great skill set gets pushed around when teams play him physically. Gasol complains about touches but won't demand the ball during the games. Kobe often has a tendency to dominate shot attempts, but players who play with Kobe have to take it upon themselves to be more aggressive when opportunities arise for them. Unlike teams with Lebron or Wade, Kobe doesn't dominate the ball on offense. He dominates shot attempts. But in the triangle, there are ample opportunities for other players to get touches, to make plays, to score the ball. Look at Shannon Brown. He'll play less than 20 minutes and still put up 7-8 shots in a game. Odom spoke on this a couple seasons ago. He said something to the effect that he knows Kobe will get his shots. You don't have to worry about Kobe. So when you play with him, you have to be aggressive and look for your opportunities. It's funny because guys like Bynum and Gasol will scream about getting more touches but when it comes down it they still want Kobe to save them. By now, they know how Kobe plays. Especially when his teammates become tentative, Kobe will say fuck it and look for his. Why isn't Gasol demanding the ball more? Because he's a pussy. Don't blame that on Kobe.

Guards or guys that dominate the ball have more chances to be agressive. The post guys if their guards don't pass them the ball don't have much of a choice. Also you can't put up shots just for the sake of it, if you're double or in a bad position you have to pass the ball.

[TheMACHINE]

Guards or guys that dominate the ball have more chances to be agressive. The post guys if their guards don't pass them the ball don't have much of a choice. Also you can't put up shots just for the sake of it, if you're double or in a bad position you have to pass the ball.

Shots attempts is a decision Pau has to make. He gets the touches, whether he shoots or not is his decision.

[DAF86]

Shots attempts is a decision Pau has to make. He gets the touches, whether he shoots or not is his decision.

So you're all for him putting up shots over two or three guys even when there's a low chance they get in?

[urunobili]

naaaa... Lakers will be there in the WCF Im not even worried... :toast

[RsxPiimp]

Kobe's winning his 5th title anytime soon, and he's going to get his second Finals MVP. Man, its going to be another long summer for his critics.

[Cane]

Yesterday's game did look like an example of what Gasol and Phil Jackson have commented on Kobe this season; that he's got a tendency to disrupt chemistry and play 1-on-5 (and Phil Jackson said that these are issues he's had ever since coaching Kobe which is no surprise to most NBA fans). However Kobe's injuries, athleticism, and his shooting touch seem to have declined so it doesn't seem like he warrants as many attempts as he used to. Not to mention LA's strength revolves around their combination of talent, size, and length mainly in their frontcourt advantages.

With Howard in foul trouble you'd think the opposing team would've tried to exploit that rather than rely on contested jumpshots.

Kobe: 12-30 (40 percent), 30 points - Overall he's been declining - also shooting 6 percent worse around the basket this season in addition to the field in general:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1976/bryant.jpg

Gasol: 8-13 (61 percent), 20 points:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/138/gasol.jpg

[Double-Up]

Because it's well established that Gasol is a pussy who despite his great skill set gets pushed around when teams play him physically. Gasol complains about touches but won't demand the ball during the games. Kobe often has a tendency to dominate shot attempts, but players who play with Kobe have to take it upon themselves to be more aggressive when opportunities arise for them. Unlike teams with Lebron or Wade, Kobe doesn't dominate the ball on offense. He dominates shot attempts. But in the triangle, there are ample opportunities for other players to get touches, to make plays, to score the ball. Look at Shannon Brown. He'll play less than 20 minutes and still put up 7-8 shots in a game. Odom spoke on this a couple seasons ago. He said something to the effect that he knows Kobe will get his shots. You don't have to worry about Kobe. So when you play with him, you have to be aggressive and look for your opportunities. It's funny because guys like Bynum and Gasol will scream about getting more touches but when it comes down it they still want Kobe to save them. By now, they know how Kobe plays. Especially when his teammates become tentative, Kobe will say fuck it and look for his. Why isn't Gasol demanding the ball more? Because he's a pussy. Don't blame that on Kobe.

:tu:tu:tu

[nkdlunch]

LMAO Fakers

[mogrovejo]

WC fans... the game to them is about shots, scoring and stuff like clutchness, chocking, soft, tough and such...

Gasol isn't complaining about shots. His usage rate is similar to last season one. He's complaining about balance (like Phil Jackson) and that's something you won't figure out looking at a box-score.

Whoever believes that the way the Lakers played down the stretch yesterday was the one that gave them the best chances to win the game has no clue about basketball.

[j-money24]

Gasol was 8-13 for 20 points and Bynum could have done better but only attempted 5 shots, hard to get in a rhythm when you only touch the ball once every 5-10 mins.

If you watched the game, you could tell Gasol was nonexistent the whole game, Howard and Gortat were pushing him off like a little girl. Most of his points, i mean majority of his points came off Kobe's double teams and triple teams, which is how Kobe had 7 assists.. Also Kobe could have had more than that if his teammates made their shots.. In the second and third quater, Kobe was passing most of the time but none of them were getting it done. So dont go look at the boxscore, and see that Gasol shooting 8-13 from the field means he had a good game when all of his points where because of Kobe, ask any other Laker fan who watched the game and they'll tell you he was playing soft.

[RsxPiimp]

Well people who also blames that loss on Kobe has to be guilty of the same thing. Jackson needs to break this Gasol/Bynum expirement. Its just not working. The Lakers also miss consistency from their three point shooters very much. Fisher, Artest are mainly responsible for this. Vujacic was starting to hit his stride before his injury. The Lakers will continue to "struggle" offensively since the floor spacing is non existent.




All in all, their compounding issues appears to be minor at this point. Its not alarming because because the Lakers are known for overcoming lapses.

[Cane]

ask any other Laker fan who watched the game and they'll tell you he was playing soft.

Kobe played soft as well. With Howard in foul trouble you should exploit that rather than rely on contested jumpshots.

In reality both Kobe and Gasol are to be blamed for the loss...however going to have to side thats it more Kobe's fault since Kobe had as many attempts as Odom, Gasol, and Artest combined; and fivemore shots if you replace Artest with Bynum . Not to mention that he's already been called out by Phil Jackson and Gasol for hogging the ball and shitting on chemistry building. LA isn't going to get very far with these issues especially since Kobe's on the decline.

[Double-Up]

Well people who also blames that loss on Kobe has to be guilty of the same thing. Jackson needs to break this Gasol/Bynum expirement. Its just not working. The Lakers also miss consistency from their three point shooters very much. Fisher, Artest are mainly responsible for this. Vujacic was starting to hit his stride before his injury. The Lakers will continue to "struggle" offensively since the floor spacing is non existent.




All in all, their compounding issues appears to be minor at this point. Its not alarming because because the Lakers are known for overcoming lapses.

You must be paid by the word to spit that shit out...

[mogrovejo]

Well people who also blames that loss on Kobe has to be guilty of the same thing. Jackson needs to break this Gasol/Bynum expirement. Its just not working. The Lakers also miss consistency from their three point shooters very much. Fisher, Artest are mainly responsible for this. Vujacic was starting to hit his stride before his injury. The Lakers will continue to "struggle" offensively since the floor spacing is non existent.




All in all, their compounding issues appears to be minor at this point. Its not alarming because because the Lakers are known for overcoming lapses.

That's ridiculous. Artest is shooting 38% from 3s (and his career average is only 34%). If the Lakers got Artest expecting him to be a light outs shooter, they screwed up because he was never one, but he's actually shooting extremely well. Fisher is shooting poorly for his standards, but he's still at 36%. Kobe is shooting 31% from downtown... while leading the team in 3PA! And you blame Fisher and.... Artest?!!?!?

Honestly, are you guys paid by Kobe's agent or something? He's still an All-Star, there's no need to be that overprotective, the crazy stuff people invent to make excuses for him is flat out nutty.

[RsxPiimp]

That's ridiculous. Artest is shooting 38% from 3s (and his career average is only 34%). If the Lakers got Artest expecting him to be a light outs shooter, they screwed up because he was never one, but he's actually shooting extremely well. Fisher is shooting poorly for his standards, but he's still at 36%. Kobe is shooting 31% from downtown... while leading the team in 3PA! And you blame Fisher and.... Artest?!!?!?


Its just basic math.


Artest is 2/13 (15%) beyond the arc in the Lakers 3 straight losses.


Artest is 11/39 the last 10 games (28%) during LA's 5-5 stretch.


And lets not start with Fisher because you're not going to make a case for him and win. People need to start wtaching games and stop relying on box scores to prove their agenda. The Lakers are missing their reliable three point shooters this season to help space the floor. That's not rocket science.

[RsxPiimp]

You must be paid by the word to spit that shit out...

The Lakers winning their title this year made me spit that shit out. Until that changes, its not going to change my opinion on them or any defending champions. They will get a benefit of a doubt until someone knocks them out.

[mogrovejo]

Its just basic math.


Artest is 2/13 (15%) beyond the arc in the Lakers 3 straight losses.


Artest is 11/39 the last 10 games (28%) during LA's 5-5 stretch.


What's that supposed to mean? Obviously the Lakers have more chances to win when Artest is shooting well. Kobe shoots 41% in losses and 48% in wins. He's 34% from dowtown in wins and 28% in losses. Now what?

Again, if you thought Artest was a reliable outside shooter (or even jump-shooter), you simply didn't know Artest very well before he signed with the Lakers.



And lets not start with Fisher because you're not going to make a case for him and win.

The case for Fisher is that he didn't decline as much as Kobe, is still a more or less respectable shooter and, most importantly, at least doesn't jack up so many shots.


People need to start wtaching games and stop relying on box scores to prove their agenda. The Lakers are missing their reliable three point shooters this season to help space the floor. That's not rocket science.

The "you don't watch games" argument is so childish it's laughable.

I'm saying that the Lakers lack outside shooting since the start of the season.

The question is: why would you exclude Kobe when he's the primary reason why the Lakers are shooting so poorly from the outside?

[ChrisRichards]

Its just basic math.


Artest is 2/13 (15%) beyond the arc in the Lakers 3 straight losses.


Artest is 11/39 the last 10 games (28%) during LA's 5-5 stretch.


And lets not start with Fisher because you're not going to make a case for him and win. People need to start wtaching games and stop relying on box scores to prove their agenda. The Lakers are missing their reliable three point shooters this season to help space the floor. That's not rocket science.
Hafta agree with this. Thats why I think Ariza has always been a better fit for the Lakers. He was a better slasher than Ron too.

[mavs>spurs2]

It's too bad Barnes didn't whip Kobe's ass and humble him a bit

[resistanze]

He saw what he wanted to see 'cause he was roaming on D like a fucking Gypsy.

[RsxPiimp]

What's that supposed to mean? Obviously the Lakers have more chances to win when Artest is shooting well. Kobe shoots 41% in losses and 48% in wins. He's 34% from dowtown in wins and 28% in losses. Now what??

The Lakers have a better chance of winning if the role players are hitting their shots even if Kobe is shooting at 41% or below. I never understood the obsession about Kobe's FG%.

Just look at the last 2 games before the Orlando game. Kobe shot 49% (24/49) for the last 2 games, and in both occassions the Lakers lost.


IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games.

5/14 against Indiana
3/17 against Denver
2/12 against Charlotte
8/20 against Boston
4/19 against Orlando
5/11 against Dallas


The rest of the role players needs to start hitting their shots and assert themselves offensively if they dont want Kobe shooting them out of games.





The case for Fisher is that he didn't decline as much as Kobe, is still a more or less respectable shooter and, most importantly, at least doesn't jack up so many shots..??

False. Fisher ranks among the Top 5 in lowest PER among starting NBA players. He's shooting 38% from the field this season.




The "you don't watch games" is laughable.
Its not laughable.




I'm saying that the Lakers lack outside shooting since the start of the season.

The question is: why would you exclude Kobe when he's the primary reason why the Lakers are shooting so poorly from the outside?

Kobe is not excluded. But LA's spot up shooters deserves a bigger blame. They are not being constantly doubled on ISO settings like Kobe. Their roles are to hit open jumpers when Kobe and Gasol commands a double team. That is the only way you'll establish a better spacing in the Triangle. If the opposing team does not respect your shooters, your big men will not establish a better position and you'll have a clusterfuck fest offensively.

[Baseline]

Have you Laker fans ever thought about the fact that it's hard for other guys to get assists if said ball is in Bryant's hands 85% of the time?

And we all know that Bryant is looking to shoot 99% of the time.

That doesn't leave a lot of room for other dudes, no matter how talented they are.

What's amazing to me is that Gasol is one of the few guys who has had the stones to step up and say something about Bryant and his selfish play. People treat Bryant like he's Idi Amin, a dictator who will have you beheaded if you speak against him.

Gasol has a 3 year/60 million contract, so thankfully he feels comfortable enough to say something. But I'll bet the clock is ticking on Bryant getting Gasol shipped out of town. It certainly has happened before.

[Double-Up]

It would be nice if Kobe played off ball every now and then but that rarely happens and you know the fuck why.

[NRHector]

If he saw what he wanted to see then why was he so pissed off at the end of the game?

[Tom Slick]

If I were matt barnes, I would have made sure Kobe needed an ambalamps after trash talking me

[mogrovejo]

The Lakers have a better chance of winning if the role players are hitting their shots even if Kobe is shooting at 41% or below. I never understood the obsession about Kobe's FG%.

LOL

You don't? Well, maybe it's because he takes so many shots, I don't know.


Just look at the last 2 games before the Orlando game. Kobe shot 49% (24/49) for the last 2 games, and in both occassions the Lakers lost.


Do you really want me to find


IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games.

5/14 against Indiana
3/17 against Denver
2/12 against Charlotte
8/20 against Boston
4/19 against Orlando
5/11 against Dallas

That's a testament to the quality of Kobe's teammates. It probably means he should defer more to them.

However, you're lying.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2010/

Eight games were Kobe shot bellow 40% and LAL lost.

If you can't even check some basic data, no wonder you're so confused. Unless you just decided to make it up in order to strengthen your crazy point,


The rest of the role players needs to start hitting their shots and assert themselves offensively if they dont want Kobe shooting them out of games.

Hmm, like Artest needs to start hitting 38% of his 3pt shots? Wait, he already does it. But you blame him for the inconsistent outside shooting of the Lakers!!!

You're a mess.

False. Fisher ranks among the Top 5 in lowest PER among starting NBA players. He's shooting 38% from the field this season.



But LA's spot up shooters deserves a bigger blame.


Artest is not a spot up shooter. They should have signed Kapono instead. Yet, the problem is not Artest. What's so difficult to understand about this? The man is shooting 38%!



They are not being constantly doubled on ISO settings like Kobe. Their roles are to hit open jumpers when Kobe and Gasol commands a double team. That is the only way you'll establish a better spacing in the Triangle. If the opposing team does not respect your shooters, your big men will not establish a better position and you'll have a clusterfuck fest offensively.

Dude, the guys bringing LAL 3pt shooting down are Fisher a little big and Kobe in a big, big way.

Yet you blamed Artest - who was never a shooter but is actually having a great shooting year - and left out Kobe. You even make up data.

Not sure what else to say.

[RsxPiimp]

LOL

You don't? Well, maybe it's because he takes so many shots, I don't know.


Do you really want me to find



I dont deny this. I often criticize him for that this season, Kobe's shot selection does add up wrinkles to LA's offense, but you take the bad with the goodies. Just dont exert your effort in his FGA to prove a point. Thats why I said people who dont watch games and rely on box scores should'nt be allowed to comment objectively. So far your choice of logic is proving me right.





However, you're lying.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2010/

Eight games were Kobe shot bellow 40% and LAL lost.
.


Im not lying. You just chose to flip your script to put this debate in your favor. So now all of a sudden its below 40% :rolleyes. Lakers also won 9 games when Kobe shot below it. You're arguing over semantics?




That's a testament to the quality of Kobe's teammates. It probably means he should defer more to them.


Its just not Kobe. There are numerous occassions where Shannon Brown, Derek Fisher and Farmar have been trigger happy and have nights where they shot more than Bynum and Gasol combined. Execution has been a mess for Los Angeles. They surely miss Luke Walton. Watch more games and you'll have a deeper understanding.








Hmm, like Artest needs to start hitting 38% of his 3pt shots? Wait, he already does it. But you blame him for the inconsistent outside shooting of the Lakers!!!.

Artest earlier this season was shooting 40% beyond the arc, Lakers not a coincident was also winning a lot of games. Not a problem. Lakers are 5-5 in their last 10 games. Not a coincidence however is the fact that Artest is shooting 28% from the 3Pt land.


BTW, I was'nt solely blaming him for the Lakers woes. I would appreciate it if you skip putting words in other peoples mouth. I was merely pointing out one of the few issues they have on offense.







Artest is not a spot up shooter. They should have signed Kapono instead. Yet, the problem is not Artest. What's so difficult to understand about this? The man is shooting 38%! !!!.

28% during the last 10 games is one of the issues. Not really hard to grasp.






Dude, the guys bringing LAL 3pt shooting down are Fisher a little big and Kobe in a big, big way.

Yet you blamed Artest - who was never a shooter but is actually having a great shooting year - and left out Kobe. You even make up data.

Not sure what else to say.

You're missing the point and the bigger picture. What's a "little big" btw? The games I showed you proving Kobe's FG% is not the only deciding factor is real unfortunately for you, Lakers have shown they can win more than lose even if Kobe is not having a good shooting night. The trade off however is they need to step up. Redundancy in the post and the lack of consistent 3-point shooting is killing the Lakers. Kobe is going to be Kobe. He will get his shots and he will most likely make 45% of it. So let's not get myopic. Bryant has always tried to take over the ball game. and his record shows he succeeds more then he fails the last 2 years. They will work it out for the final stretch and I have reason to believe Kobe will adjust his game when it matters the most. All this useless jibber jabber is hilarious.

[JamStone]

If he saw what he wanted to see then why was he so pissed off at the end of the game?

He wasn't that pissed off. He was upset he missed the last shot like most players would be. But it's not like he kicked an exercise bike or refused to talk to the media. It's a regular season game and he missed the game-tying shot. He walked off. Didn't seem like he was that pissed off at all.

[NRHector]

He wasn't that pissed off. He was upset he missed the last shot like most players would be. But it's not like he kicked an exercise bike or refused to talk to the media. It's a regular season game and he missed the game-tying shot. He walked off. Didn't seem like he was that pissed off at all.he didn't kick the bike but did hit the chair when they called time out

[TheMACHINE]

he didn't kick the bike but did hit the chair when they called time out

nothing wrong with that right?

[NRHector]

nothing wrong with that right?why did he do that if he was happy with what he saw?

[TheMACHINE]

why did he do that if he was happy with what he saw?

ahhhh i see....you dont have good reading comprehension.

[Mike D]

why did he do that if he was happy with what he saw?

You are missing the forest through the trees.

[RsxPiimp]

why did he do that if he was happy with what he saw?

Are you really that dense? I mean. WOW.

[cobbler]

The Lakers have a better chance of winning if the role players are hitting their shots even if Kobe is shooting at 41% or below. I never understood the obsession about Kobe's FG%.

Just look at the last 2 games before the Orlando game. Kobe shot 49% (24/49) for the last 2 games, and in both occassions the Lakers lost.


IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games.

5/14 against Indiana
3/17 against Denver
2/12 against Charlotte
8/20 against Boston
4/19 against Orlando
5/11 against Dallas


The rest of the role players needs to start hitting their shots and assert themselves offensively if they dont want Kobe shooting them out of games.





False. Fisher ranks among the Top 5 in lowest PER among starting NBA players. He's shooting 38% from the field this season.



Its not laughable.



Kobe is not excluded. But LA's spot up shooters deserves a bigger blame. They are not being constantly doubled on ISO settings like Kobe. Their roles are to hit open jumpers when Kobe and Gasol commands a double team. That is the only way you'll establish a better spacing in the Triangle. If the opposing team does not respect your shooters, your big men will not establish a better position and you'll have a clusterfuck fest offensively.

Well said... but he still won't get it.

[RedsLakers24]

I'm SICK of Gasol's b.itching... Honestly! If you're gonna whine and complain, TRY CATCHING THE BALL FOR ONCE. Stop turning it over. And stop passing it right back to Kobe EVERY TIME! Do you guys not notice that? It's laughable that he would make these comments. This guy is a joke. Stop being a softer than a 300lb woman's jiggly thighs and maybe you'd get the ball. Seriously. All he does is dribble..dribble..get punked, get stripped, lose the ball, then whine and moan for a foul. Its starting to reeaallly piss me off.

[cobbler]

Have you Laker fans ever thought about the fact that it's hard for other guys to get assists if said ball is in Bryant's hands 85% of the time?

Utter nonsense. Completely made up number by you.


And we all know that Bryant is looking to shoot 99% of the time..

Again, made up by you.


That doesn't leave a lot of room for other dudes, no matter how talented they are..

Shannon Brown doesnt have any issues getting up shots. Fish doesn't either. If you are not going to be agressive, command the ball, and look to be offensive, then you are not going to go far in the offense.


What's amazing to me is that Gasol is one of the few guys who has had the stones to step up and say something about Bryant and his selfish play. People treat Bryant like he's Idi Amin, a dictator who will have you beheaded if you speak against him..

Oh yeah, Pau has the stones to step up in the media. How about he takes that on the court? If he did there wouldn't be any issues. Hard to toss a ball to a guy getting pushed off his spot on a constant basis and shooting a less % than the jump shooters. Not to mention handling the ball like a hot potato in crunch minutes. BTW, weren't all you guys chastizing and still are berating Kobe for taking through the media? Oh I see, it's only throwing your teammate under the bus if it's Kobe doing the talking. I guess Pau couldn't have done that behind closed doors.


Gasol has a 3 year/60 million contract, so thankfully he feels comfortable enough to say something. But I'll bet the clock is ticking on Bryant getting Gasol shipped out of town. It certainly has happened before.

Again, made up by you. It is well documented by all parties that Kobe never asked, requested, or insisted Shaq be shipped. Of course you haters cannot believe it becuase it doesn't fit your agenda. Regardless that Kobe, PJ, Buss, & Shaq have all verified it.

[JamStone]

Let's look at some other second options on good NBA teams, and a couple first options as well.

Field goal attempts per game:

Amare Stoudemire 15.1
Tim Duncan 14.5
LaMarcus Aldridge 14.5
Deron Williams 13.8
Jason Terry 13.7
Jamal Crawford 13.3
Chauncey Billups 12.8
Mo Williams 12.8
Pau Gasol 12.7
Gerald Wallace 12.5
Jason Richardson 12.5
Ray Allen 12.5
Josh Smith 12.0
Kevin Garnett 10.9
Dwight Howard 10.3

Pau is right in line with most second options on good teams. Heck, he even gets more shot attempts than a couple guys who could be considered first options.


Now look at Pau's career numbers in a couple categories:

Pau's career field goal attempts per game: 13.5
This season: 12.7

Pau's career assists per game: 3.2
This season: 3.4

Pau's career free throw attempts per game: 6.3
This season: 4.9

So basically, Pau gets very similar field goal attempts and assists and free throw attempts compared to what he's always gotten throughout his career, even including when he was a number 1 option. As a Laker, he's probably given up around 3-5 touches a game (my personal guess) compared to when he was a no. 1 option. In fact, when Kobe ball hogs, he's usually taking away shots from players other than Pau. Pau still gets his touches. In the triangle, there are opportunities for everyone in the offense. Everyone will get a touch. If they aren't aggressive in looking for their opportunities, when it's swung back to Kobe, don't expect him to not be aggressive with the ball. Sure, there are times when Kobe takes quick shots and becomes a blackhole especially if he gets hot. But, it's not as much as some people try to say it is.

In other words, Pau should shut the fuck up.

[RedsLakers24]

Let's look at some other second options on good NBA teams, and a couple first options as well.

Field goal attempts per game:

Amare Stoudemire 15.1
Tim Duncan 14.5
LaMarcus Aldridge 14.5
Deron Williams 13.8
Jason Terry 13.7
Jamal Crawford 13.3
Chauncey Billups 12.8
Mo Williams 12.8
Pau Gasol 12.7
Gerald Wallace 12.5
Jason Richardson 12.5
Ray Allen 12.5
Josh Smith 12.0
Kevin Garnett 10.9
Dwight Howard 10.3

Pau is right in line with most second options on good teams. Heck, he even gets more shot attempts than a couple guys who could be considered first options.


Now look at Pau's career numbers in a couple categories:

Pau's career field goal attempts per game: 13.5
This season: 12.7

Pau's career assists per game: 3.2
This season: 3.4

Pau's career free throw attempts per game: 6.3
This season: 4.9

So basically, Pau gets very similar field goal attempts and assists and free throw attempts compared to what he's always gotten throughout his career, even including when he was a number 1 option. As a Laker, he's probably given up around 3-5 touches a game (my personal guess) compared to when he was a no. 1 option. In fact, when Kobe ball hogs, he's usually taking away shots from players other than Pau. Pau still gets his touches. In the triangle, there are opportunities for everyone in the offense. Everyone will get a touch. If they aren't aggressive in looking for their opportunities, when it's swung back to Kobe, don't expect him to not be aggressive with the ball. Sure, there are times when Kobe takes quick shots and becomes a blackhole especially if he gets hot. But, it's not as much as some people try to say it is.

In other words, Pau should shut the fuck up.

:toast

[diego]

its a chicken - egg situation and the truth is somewhere in between. But its obvious to me that, no matter what your personnel is, you have to have a balanced attack. also, in kobe's case, by no means does he have the worst supporting cast of a franchise player, maybe in 05/06/07 but definitely not now. they should have a more balanced attack and he should be fostering it. its not like you have to practice to play 1 on 5.

[NBAfan83]

Let's look at some other second options on good NBA teams, and a couple first options as well.

Field goal attempts per game:

Amare Stoudemire 15.1
Tim Duncan 14.5
LaMarcus Aldridge 14.5
Deron Williams 13.8
Jason Terry 13.7
Jamal Crawford 13.3
Chauncey Billups 12.8
Mo Williams 12.8
Pau Gasol 12.7
Gerald Wallace 12.5
Jason Richardson 12.5
Ray Allen 12.5
Josh Smith 12.0
Kevin Garnett 10.9
Dwight Howard 10.3

Pau is right in line with most second options on good teams. Heck, he even gets more shot attempts than a couple guys who could be considered first options.


Now look at Pau's career numbers in a couple categories:

Pau's career field goal attempts per game: 13.5
This season: 12.7

Pau's career assists per game: 3.2
This season: 3.4

Pau's career free throw attempts per game: 6.3
This season: 4.9

So basically, Pau gets very similar field goal attempts and assists and free throw attempts compared to what he's always gotten throughout his career, even including when he was a number 1 option. As a Laker, he's probably given up around 3-5 touches a game (my personal guess) compared to when he was a no. 1 option. In fact, when Kobe ball hogs, he's usually taking away shots from players other than Pau. Pau still gets his touches. In the triangle, there are opportunities for everyone in the offense. Everyone will get a touch. If they aren't aggressive in looking for their opportunities, when it's swung back to Kobe, don't expect him to not be aggressive with the ball. Sure, there are times when Kobe takes quick shots and becomes a blackhole especially if he gets hot. But, it's not as much as some people try to say it is.

In other words, Pau should shut the fuck up.

First off, hard to argue some of those being listed as being second options.

Second, pau's averaging almost 4 offensive rebounds a game, and probly gets those extra FGA off putbacks or thru offensive rebounds as evidenced by the 4th quarter of the Orlando game where most of his attempts were from offensive rebounds.

Third, you can't compare FGA by guards and FGA by C/PF's cuz it's skewed. Dwights Howards FGA for example is some part from his offensive rebounds also.

Fourth, Can't blame pau, when the lakers won the championship and reach the finals vs boston, Pau was a big reason for that. He and Kobe actually delivered a one and two punch, with Pau being the more efficient scorer.

Fifth, with Bynum's surprisingly injury free season, and the switch between ariza and artest, there are fewer touches to go around, as artest takes a few ill advised shots and bynum also compains about his touches. The only person Gasol doesn't have to compete with offensively with is Odom. Heck, even fishers shooting more this season.

And Lastly, it's just human nature, when your scoring at a good clip and you got your confidence up, you want more touches, also it hurts confidence when you don't know when you are going to get the ball.

[mogrovejo]

Im not lying. You just chose to flip your script to put this debate in your favor. So now all of a sudden its below 40% :rolleyes.

Huh?

You:
IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games.

Fact: In games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA didn't win all their games - not even close to it.

What's wrong with you?


Artest earlier this season was shooting 40% beyond the arc, Lakers not a coincident was also winning a lot of games.

It's called a fluke.

Why are you holding Artest to such a standard? Artest was never a good shooter. Why are you holding him responsible for his bad shooting when he's having a career year in terms of shooting? He's exceeding expectations and you're saying he isn't doing enough? You're nuts.


The games I showed you proving Kobe's FG% is not the only deciding factor is real unfortunately for you, Lakers have shown they can win more than lose even if Kobe is not having a good shooting night.

So? Every team can win with their best player having a bad shooting night.


The trade off however is they need to step up. Redundancy in the post and the lack of consistent 3-point shooting is killing the Lakers. Kobe is going to be Kobe. He will get his shots and he will most likely make 45% of it. So let's not get myopic. Bryant has always tried to take over the ball game. and his record shows he succeeds more then he fails the last 2 years. They will work it out for the final stretch and I have reason to believe Kobe will adjust his game when it matters the most. All this useless jibber jabber is hilarious.

Look, I dont' know if he's going to adjust his game. What happened in the past is irrelevant because Kobe is declining quickly - so he can't keep playing the same way he played in the past, even after adjusting for the playoffs.

But I'm not discussing the future; I'm discussing your statement that Fisher and Artest are the main responsibles for the Lakers lack of consistent outside shooting. That's just inane, especially when Kobe is shooting 31% from 3. The fact that you aren't able to admit you were wrong on calling out Artest and sparing Kobe is quite telling.

[mogrovejo]

Let's look at some other second options on good NBA teams, and a couple first options as well.

Before you should look at a couple of simple concepts:

- pace.

- it's not about the shooting. Gasol isn't even American, he doesn't care that much about scoring numbers and hoisting shots. It's the balance, stupid.

[JamStone]

It's perspective though. There are Kobe haters and critics that make it seem like Kobe never passes the ball. Some try to make it seem like Kobe shoots it every time he touches it. It's simply not true. Now can he be a ballhog? Sure. Has he every been a ballhog? Absolutely.

First, I said some of those players could also be considered first options as well.

Second, Gasol was averaging 2-3 offensive rebounds when he was a first option. So the difference might be 1 or 1.5 offensive rebounds. That doesn't skew the numbers that much.

Third, you can absolutely compare FGA of guards and bigs when they are not the first option. But, more than anything, it's too give perspective when you look at "approximately" how many touches a player gets.

Fourth, I blame Pau for bitching publicly. Pau helped the Lakers, but Kobe was still the main guy and main reason for them winning it all. And it's hard to say Pau was more efficient, like you say it's hard to compare FGA between guards and bigs, since most of Pau's field goals are closer to the rim and when Kobe also shoots three pointers and often has to take bailout shots when the shot clock is winding down and against tougher contests.

Fifth, with fewer touches to go around and Pau still getting basically the same amount of touches as he did last year, why is he bitching?

Lastly, then Pau should demand the ball. We hear and read him complain in the media, and when he's on the court, he plays like a pussy and won't demand the ball. Demand the fucking ball.

[JamStone]

Before you should look at a couple of simple concepts:

- pace.

- it's not about the shooting. Gasol isn't even American, he doesn't care that much about scoring numbers and hoisting shots. It's the balance, stupid.

Pace is a factor, but it wouldn't have changed those numbers much at all except for guys like Amare and Chauncey, and they would then actually bring their FGA down closer to Pau's, not changing what I'm trying to show.

Of course it's not only about shooting. That's why I included Pau's assist numbers and free throw attempts, to help more accurately show his "touches."

I'm not denying that Kobe can and sometimes is a ballhog. He is. But, it's way over-exaggerated. And, showing how little difference there is between Pau's numbers now and when he was a #1 option helps show why Pau is actually just being a bitch.

And, I'll repeat, there is balance on offense because of the triangle. Everyone gets touches. It's what they do when they get the ball that determines shot attempts and ultimately the balance Pau is crying about. Now of course Kobe breaks off from the triangle and takes quick shots from time to time. But the triangle forces other players to get opportunities as well. That's why I think it's just lame bitching on Pau's part. He gets his touches. The bigs get their touches. Be more aggressive when they get the ball, and the balance will come.

[cobbler]

Where are all the Pau is throwing his teammate under the bus in the media pundits?

[mogrovejo]

[quote=JamStone;4145377]
And, I'll repeat, there is balance on offense because of the triangle.[quote]

Do you guys a) know what the triangle offence is and b) watch the Lakers games?

What's the % of the possessions in which the Lakers run triple post sets?

[diego]

yeah i can agree with that, but the lakers are better when they spread their attack. sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, and as 1st option Kobe has a lot to do with that.

[JamStone]

[quote=JamStone;4145377]
And, I'll repeat, there is balance on offense because of the triangle.[quote]

Do you guys a) know what the triangle offence is and b) watch the Lakers games?

What's the % of the possessions in which the Lakers run triple post sets?

Yes to both question. I don't have NBA League Pass so not all Lakers games, but they're on national TV all the time and I watch those games.

I don't know where to find that % statistic.

As for them actually running the triangle in their half court sets, obviously not including possessions out of transition or delays fast break opportunities, from what I've seen, they still primarily run the triangle on most of their half court sets. Players sometimes break off plays or might exploit a mismatch, but if I were to guess, I'd probably say anywhere from 65-75% of the Lakers' half court sets still start out in the triangle.

[RsxPiimp]

Huh?

Fact: In games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA didn't win all their games - not even close to it.

What's wrong with you?
Fact: I never said LA won ALL their games when Kobe shot 40% or below. I merely took a quick sample size showing you that Kobe's FG% is not the best way to asses this talented Laker team.


Also, comparing 40% or below is different from specifically comparing it to just below 40%.





Why are you holding Artest to such a standard? Artest was never a good shooter. Why are you holding him responsible for his bad shooting when he's having a career year in terms of shooting? He's exceeding expectations and you're saying he isn't doing enough? You're nuts. .

Im holding Artest to a 4th or 5th option standard. Shooting 28% is aweful no matter how you look at it. For a player whose been getting a lot of open looks and is failing to connect, that's concerning. Also, he's not exceeding expectations offensively haha. Ask any Laker fan.


I told you watching games can be quite beneficial.




Look, I dont' know if he's going to adjust his game. What happened in the past is irrelevant because Kobe is declining quickly.

You're right, you dont know. That past was not too distant, before his injury Kobe was averaging 31 PPG, 49% FG shooting for 37 games.





So he can't keep playing the same way he played in the past, even after adjusting for the playoffs. But I'm not discussing the future; I'm discussing your statement that Fisher and Artest are the main responsibles for the Lakers lack of consistent outside shooting. That's just inane, especially when Kobe is shooting 31% from 3. The fact that you aren't able to admit you were wrong on calling out Artest and sparing Kobe is quite telling.

Kobe will adjust. No reason to believe he's not going to do it again. He won championships as the best facilitator, closer and scorer.


You're also not going anywhere with your argument defending Fishers 38% shooting and Artest's 37% FG and 28% 3FG during the Lakers 5-5 run to prove your case against the teams best and reliable perimeter shooter. At this point you're just being stubborn to accept that you're position is wrong.

[RsxPiimp]

Gasol doesnt know what to do when he has the ball, you give it to him and he'll quickly pass it outside. His bread and butter move in the post is non existent and he allows physical players to habitually abuse him in the post. Gasol has not been the same so far this year.

[Banzai]

Gasol doesnt know what to do when he has the ball, you give it to him and he'll quickly pass it outside. His bread and butter move in the post is non existent and he allows physical players to habitually abuse him in the post. Gasol has not been the same so far this year.

from what I see..Gasol catches the ball and just fakes like he's going to shoot then he passes. Most of the time anyways.

[NBAfan83]

It's perspective though. There are Kobe haters and critics that make it seem like Kobe never passes the ball. Some try to make it seem like Kobe shoots it every time he touches it. It's simply not true. Now can he be a ballhog? Sure. Has he every been a ballhog? Absolutely.

First, I said some of those players could also be considered first options as well.

Second, Gasol was averaging 2-3 offensive rebounds when he was a first option. So the difference might be 1 or 1.5 offensive rebounds. That doesn't skew the numbers that much.

Third, you can absolutely compare FGA of guards and bigs when they are not the first option. But, more than anything, it's too give perspective when you look at "approximately" how many touches a player gets.

Fourth, I blame Pau for bitching publicly. Pau helped the Lakers, but Kobe was still the main guy and main reason for them winning it all. And it's hard to say Pau was more efficient, like you say it's hard to compare FGA between guards and bigs, since most of Pau's field goals are closer to the rim and when Kobe also shoots three pointers and often has to take bailout shots when the shot clock is winding down and against tougher contests.

Fifth, with fewer touches to go around and Pau still getting basically the same amount of touches as he did last year, why is he bitching?

Lastly, then Pau should demand the ball. We hear and read him complain in the media, and when he's on the court, he plays like a pussy and won't demand the ball. Demand the fucking ball.

He's averaging close to 4 right now, so if you take out 4 shots, his True FGA comes down from 13 to 9. So imagine if I told you that your second option is taking 9 FGA, and let's not joke ourselves, Gasol is the second option and he doesn't need to take more shots than Kobe, but it should at least be at a respectable clip. I can almost guarantee if you brought over a scoring PG to the lakers, you'd see about the same FGA as pau is getting. And it's not like Pau has no post game like Dwight Howard, Pau's offensive game is one of the best in the league, he can get his shot.

For me bitching publically isn't such a big deal since PJ and Kobe do it also, as well as lamar odom when it was just him and Kobe. Who cares if he complains, it's not like he is making shit up, what he is saying does have some merit to it. And besides Pau is just saying simply that it would probably be easier and lead to more blowouts of weaker teams if LA just played team ball. Considering their only weakness is the PG position, do you think maybe playing team ball offensively, would help with team ball defensively. Maybe those quick small point guards would stop killing the lakers then.

I don't want to bother looking it up, but do you think possibly the lakers are playing at a faster pace, thus more possessions are being created? I don't know though, you'd have to check that stat out.

TBH, I think it all boils down to Kobe's mentality of being the Main man to win a championship. Sure they won it last year, but ppl are saying, Kobe can't do it without a dominant big man, or Kobe can't win without Pau, it is possible that Kobe is relegating Pau as just another role player while Kobe single handedly brought LA the championship. Hey, honestly who knows what goes thru the mind of Kobe Bryant.

But here is a fact, just because you criticize a person, doesn't make you a hater, because, who says you can only view one side of the same coin?

[DazedAndConfused]

It's funny how obsessed some of you are with the Lakers.

For a team many of you hate and deem "worthless" they certainly attract a lot of your attention.

The bottom line is the champs don't have to prove jack shit in the regular season. It's the playoffs that separates the men from the boys.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Funny how Kome cockgobblers bring up the 34 points he scored, but not the 30 shots he took to get there...

Thats because most LA fans are dumb NBA fans who like the team that is doing best at the time. Is there anything worse than a dumb bball fan? Basketball is the most NAKED sport, if a player is fucking up its right in front you, there is no padding or helmets or masks to hide it. I just don't understand how LA fans aren't seeing Kobe jacking up some of the worst shots.:bang

[JamStone]

He's averaging close to 4 right now, so if you take out 4 shots, his True FGA comes down from 13 to 9. So imagine if I told you that your second option is taking 9 FGA, and let's not joke ourselves, Gasol is the second option and he doesn't need to take more shots than Kobe, but it should at least be at a respectable clip. I can almost guarantee if you brought over a scoring PG to the lakers, you'd see about the same FGA as pau is getting. And it's not like Pau has no post game like Dwight Howard, Pau's offensive game is one of the best in the league, he can get his shot.

Couple of things about your logic. An offensive rebound doesn't automatically mean Gasol always goes right up with a putback. Moreover, if you do the same thing with his offensive rebounding when he was in Memphis and subtract his offensive rebounds from his FGA, then as a Memphis Grizzly, he would have averaged only 11 field goal attempts per game as mostly a number 1 option. If as a number 1 option he only averaged 11 FGA (based on your logic), then 9 FGA as a second option seems more than reasonable. The joke is actually your logic.



For me bitching publically isn't such a big deal since PJ and Kobe do it also, as well as lamar odom when it was just him and Kobe. Who cares if he complains, it's not like he is making shit up, what he is saying does have some merit to it. And besides Pau is just saying simply that it would probably be easier and lead to more blowouts of weaker teams if LA just played team ball. Considering their only weakness is the PG position, do you think maybe playing team ball offensively, would help with team ball defensively. Maybe those quick small point guards would stop killing the lakers then.

I don't think it's a huge deal. But I still think he should just shut the fuck up about it. The Lakers have the second best record in the league and are coming off a championship season. A couple losses where he gets pushed around but doesn't get what he feels is enough touches is something that doesn't need to thrown out in the media. Kobe bitched when the team wasn't winning titles and wasn't one of the best teams in the league. Pau just sounds like a bitch. Kobe's a ballhog. He has been his entire career. When the Lakers have had success, Kobe has managed to play enough "team ball" to help them win. There's no indication that he won't again when it matters in the playoffs.



I don't want to bother looking it up, but do you think possibly the lakers are playing at a faster pace, thus more possessions are being created? I don't know though, you'd have to check that stat out.

The Lakers pace is actually slower this season than last season, but it's about the same. There are actually fewer possessions this season than for last year's championship Laker team. Pau is taking 0.2 fewer field goal attempts this year than last year, 0.5 fewer free throws, and has the same assist numbers. He's getting virtually the same amount of touches as last year. He should shut the fuck up.



TBH, I think it all boils down to Kobe's mentality of being the Main man to win a championship. Sure they won it last year, but ppl are saying, Kobe can't do it without a dominant big man, or Kobe can't win without Pau, it is possible that Kobe is relegating Pau as just another role player while Kobe single handedly brought LA the championship. Hey, honestly who knows what goes thru the mind of Kobe Bryant.

But here is a fact, just because you criticize a person, doesn't make you a hater, because, who says you can only view one side of the same coin?

Criticizing a player doesn't make you a hater. Obsessing incessantly over that player over every single little thing does and trying to find every little criticism to hate on him does.

[NBAfan83]

Couple of things about your logic. An offensive rebound doesn't automatically mean Gasol always goes right up with a putback. Moreover, if you do the same thing with his offensive rebounding when he was in Memphis and subtract his offensive rebounds from his FGA, then as a Memphis Grizzly, he would have averaged only 11 field goal attempts per game as mostly a number 1 option. If as a number 1 option he only averaged 11 FGA (based on your logic), then 9 FGA as a second option seems more than reasonable. The joke is actually your logic.




I don't think it's a huge deal. But I still think he should just shut the fuck up about it. The Lakers have the second best record in the league and are coming off a championship season. A couple losses where he gets pushed around but doesn't get what he feels is enough touches is something that doesn't need to thrown out in the media. Kobe bitched when the team wasn't winning titles and wasn't one of the best teams in the league. Pau just sounds like a bitch. Kobe's a ballhog. He has been his entire career. When the Lakers have had success, Kobe has managed to play enough "team ball" to help them win. There's no indication that he won't again when it matters in the playoffs.




The Lakers pace is actually slower this season than last season, but it's about the same. There are actually fewer possessions this season than for last year's championship Laker team. Pau is taking 0.2 fewer field goal attempts this year than last year, 0.5 fewer free throws, and has the same assist numbers. He's getting virtually the same amount of touches as last year. He should shut the fuck up.




Criticizing a player doesn't make you a hater. Obsessing incessantly over that player over every single little thing does and trying to find every little criticism to hate on him does.

Maybe that's why he's complaining? cuz he never got more than 11 in his career and he'd like to get more recognition, he's only spain's best player after all, and we know gasol cares more about euro recognition.

Meh for me you can get annoyed with Pau, but no denying his impt to that team so i'm sure they take his words into consideration, we will see anyway on lakers nxt game.

fans obsess about a lot of players, Kobe just has a few more stalkers than any other players, what do you expect next to MJ, he is the next most recognizable player in the NBA, as many haters he has, he has as much knobslobbers.

[jimo2305]

lol.. gosh im gettin too old and slow for these forums..

[icem]

kobe saw what he wanted, but his teammates didnt.... PASS THE ROCK MOFO

[mogrovejo]

Fact: I never said LA won ALL their games when Kobe shot 40% or below.

Man, you jumped the shark. Either you're under medication or you need to see a doctor ASAP.

1. Click on this link:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4143417&postcount=53

2. Read your own post.

3. Re-read this sentence:

IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games.

Shall we repeat?

Here's what you wrote at 12:55pm:

IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games.

Here's what you wrote at 09:33pm:

I never said LA won ALL their games when Kobe shot 40% or below.

Again, side by side:

IN games where Kobe shot 40% or below, LA still won all their games. I never said LA won ALL their games when Kobe shot 40% or below.

I mean, mental lapsus or lapsus linguae or change of opinions or momentarily lack of short term memory happen to everybody (it happens to me a lot), but this isn't one of those cases. You were confronted with the fact that you wrote 2 mutually exclusive things and yet . You seem one of those kids who screws up and just closes his eyes and starts singing aloud. That's not a good way of facing life as an adult. If you're already 12 years old or older and you still have this kind of behaviour, I think you should talk to your parents and tell them about this. You'll have problems in the future if you don't deal with this quick. Ignore my advise at your own peril.


Im holding Artest to a 4th or 5th option standard. Shooting 28% is aweful no matter how you look at it.

Artest is shooting 38% from 3s. Taking a 5 game sample where the player is slumping to make a point is pathetic and too childish to merit an answer.


You're also not going anywhere with your argument defending Fishers 38% shooting and Artest's 37% FG and 28% 3FG during the Lakers 5-5 run to prove your case against the teams best and reliable perimeter shooter..

Kobe is shooting 31% from 3.

Fisher is shooting 35% from 3.

Artest is shooting 38% from 3.

Man, you're in denial. You need to start facing reality. I remember the game 5 of the 1990 playoffs vs. the Knicks. It was when I was forced to bring myself to accept Larry Legend's mortality. Sure it hurts, but it's part of life. Do it quickly.

[ChrisRichards]

Kobe is shooting 31% from 3.

Fisher is shooting 35% from 3.

Artest is shooting 38% from 3.

Man, you're in denial. You need to start facing reality. I remember the game 5 of the 1990 playoffs vs. the Knicks. It was when I was forced to bring myself to accept Larry Legend's mortality. Sure it hurts, but it's part of life. Do it quickly.
I think you're missing his point. He said Artest is shooting 28% the last 10 games beyond the line where the Lakers clearly struggled the most, why do you keep bringing up Artests' average for the full season? You're just not getting it.

[mogrovejo]

I think you're missing his point. He said Artest is shooting 28% the last 10 games beyond the line where the Lakers clearly struggled the most, why do you keep bringing up Artests' average for the full season? You're just not getting it.

Again? Have you read the posts? If the Lakers are expecting Artest to shoot consistently above 30% they were delusional. A 10 games stretch shooting bellow 30% is pretty normal for a player like Artest.

And the Lakers offense isn't struggling more than usual in the last 10 games.