Collison Rookie of the Year??? [Archive]

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himat

03-09-2010, 03:11 PM

Do you guys think he has a chance? Yeah, Tyreke Evans is probably the front runner, but the numbers Collison is putting up is spectacular. If it were not for all the turn overs he looks like an elite PG right now.

BRHornet45

03-09-2010, 03:17 PM

son Collison isn't even the best rookie on his own team! ... amazing how many of you still overlook Thornton.

Muser

03-09-2010, 03:18 PM

No, Tyreke is too beasty.

himat

03-09-2010, 03:20 PM

son Collison isn't even the best rookie on his own team! ... amazing how many of you still overlook Thornton.

I just don't think Thornton is putting up the numbers to get rookie of the year though.

BRHornet45

03-09-2010, 03:22 PM

I just don't think Thornton is putting up the numbers to get rookie of the year though.

son he has better numbers than Collison lol ... not to mention that per 36 minutes he is putting up 21 a game!

Double-Up

03-09-2010, 03:24 PM

lol 11 pts and 5 ast...no fucking way. Look at the record with him in vs Paul, its no question he's aight at best.

himat

03-09-2010, 03:26 PM

son he has better numbers than Collison lol ... not to mention that per 36 minutes he is putting up 21 a game!

I don't think so...

Thornton is averaging 12.9, 2.6 boards, and 1.1 assists

Collison is averaging 11, 5 assists, and 1 steal per game.

And remember that those averages suck for Collison because he played very little when CP3 was healthy.

The past month he has played out of his mind, which is why he got rookie of the month.

BRHornet45

03-09-2010, 03:28 PM

lol 11 pts and 5 ast...no fucking way. Look at the record with him in vs Paul, its no question he's aight at best.

exactly. I don't mean to bash Collison by any means, but he's not that great and has a LOT to learn. he has a very selfish style of play with his "shoot first / me first" mentality and constantly turns the ball over in clutch situations. I forget the exact record with him as the starter, but its terrible. something like 7-12 I think ... I know that when Paul went down, the Hornets were like 4 or 5 games over .500 and were easily in the playoff race at like the #7 or 8th spot. now look at us.

atxrocker

03-09-2010, 03:29 PM

Collison ROTY? Sure he is if you exclude this guy..

http://pix.kingsconnect.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/tyreke_evans.jpg

Pistons < Spurs

03-09-2010, 03:37 PM

1.Tyreke
2.Curry
3.Jennings

j-money24

03-09-2010, 04:34 PM

son Collison isn't even the best rookie on his own team! ... amazing how many of you still overlook Thornton.

Son, Collison is the best point gaurd on his team.
Collison>Cp3

redzero

03-09-2010, 05:08 PM

No, Collison won't win, but there are no two rookies I would rather have other than Collison and Thornton.

jacobdrj

03-09-2010, 05:12 PM

cobbler

03-09-2010, 05:13 PM

son he has better numbers than Collison lol ... not to mention that per 36 minutes he is putting up 21 a game!

Maybe he should play 36 mins then.

mogrovejo

03-09-2010, 06:44 PM

Just curious: What is the non-Piston fan's perspective on Jonas Jerebko. Has anyone even heard of him outside Detroit? He has impressed the hell out of me this season. Not saying he is better than Evans, Jennings, or Collison, but just curious if he has any stock around the NBA...

I think he's an excellent role-player in the making: very good defender, can guard long 3s and mobile 4s, decent rebounder, extremely tough play, smart, plays within his limitations, gritty, mistaken free, developing jump-shot...

But I may not be a good example, I thought all of this about Jerebko pre-draft.

I like the Wall of Jerebko moniker, btw.

mogrovejo

03-09-2010, 06:45 PM

Trading Chris Paul because you get Collison is more or less the same of trading LeBron James because you just drafted Richard Jefferson.

Bukefal

03-09-2010, 06:46 PM

No way, It's Tyreke. then Jennings.

himat

03-09-2010, 06:48 PM

Trading Chris Paul because you get Collison is more or less the same of trading LeBron James because you just drafted Richard Jefferson.

?? Drafted Richard Jefferson?

I didn't understand that part of the post, but trading CP3 might be a good move. What's the point of having 2 great rookie guards (Collison and Thronton) and CP3 when you could trade CP3 for a great forward or center to go along with David West?

Hornets1

03-09-2010, 06:55 PM

Trading Chris Paul because you get Collison is more or less the same of trading LeBron James because you just drafted Richard Jefferson.

:toast+1

I might consider this quote as my signature.

mogrovejo

03-09-2010, 06:56 PM

?? Drafted Richard Jefferson?

I didn't understand that part of the post, but trading CP3 might be a good move. What's the point of having 2 great rookie guards (Collison and Thronton) and CP3 when you could trade CP3 for a great forward or center to go along with David West?

Because Collison will have a similar career to Jefferson (hopefully he won't decline so early) - a quality starter, a good complimentary piece for good teams, a 3rd/4th best player in a contender.

Dude, I've already explained this to you: when you get a player as gifted as Chris Paul, widely regarded as the most talented PG in the game, you treasure him. You build your franchise around him. You do not under any circumstances trade him without getting a top five talent of similar or younger age back in return. Do you think you'll get LeBron James? Howard? Durant? If so, I agree, trade Paul. What exactly are you asking for Paul?

Talents like Paul go a long way in making you legit contenders for championships. Collison isn't even a top-5 PG in his own draft down the road.

You build a team around Collison, Thornton and an All-Star big man and you have a good team that won't sniff a title while you'll spend years hoping that a miraculous trade or draft lands you a talent equiparable to Paul that can make you legit contenders.

Package Collison+West and try to get an All-Star caliber player.

BRHornet45

03-09-2010, 07:01 PM

himat

03-09-2010, 07:27 PM

sons trading CP3 because of Darren Collison would be just like if the Spurs traded Duncan because they have Blair now .... just downright stupid and idiotic. some of you need to learn the game of basketball before spewing such foolish nonsense on message boards. seriously ... this whole "what have you done for me in the last hour?" mentality that most of you have about NBA players is absurd.

And you don't need to overreact so much. I'm not saying the Hornets should trade CP3 for nothing, but if an All Star big man is on the trading block the Hornets should look at that next season.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:33 PM

Thornton is having a better overall season than Collison.

That said, both guys at this point are playing at an extremely high level, including more than Curry and Jennings. Evans is still playing really well and he's a clear-cut number one rookie, no discussion.

Also, with the way the Hornets are stuck with some bad contracts, I don't think they will contend with CP3 anytime soon. The only way to get rid of some of the bad contracts like Okafor would be to trade CP3. The Hornets can easily build a strong team around Thornton and Collison.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:34 PM

sons trading CP3 because of Darren Collison would be just like if the Spurs traded Duncan because they have Blair now .... just downright stupid and idiotic. some of you need to learn the game of basketball before spewing such foolish nonsense on message boards. seriously ... this whole "what have you done for me in the last hour?" mentality that most of you have about NBA players is absurd.

As long as Okafor is on the team, CP3 won't win a championship here. Okafor's contract is just like Peja's. Basically paying a role player a super high money and can't add further talent to contend.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:35 PM

It's hard to win a championship when your best player is a PG.

himat

03-09-2010, 07:36 PM

Because Collison will have a similar career to Jefferson (hopefully he won't decline so early) - a quality starter, a good complimentary piece for good teams, a 3rd/4th best player in a contender.

Yeah but you were talking about LeBron and Richard Jefferson in your original post. LeBron is on the Cavs. Richard Jefferson is on the Spurs.

Dude, I've already explained this to you:

No you didn't. Stop trying to sound like a smart ass.

when you get a player as gifted as Chris Paul, widely regarded as the most talented PG in the game, you treasure him. You build your franchise around him. You do not under any circumstances trade him without getting a top five talent of similar or younger age back in return. Do you think you'll get LeBron James? Howard? Durant? If so, I agree, trade Paul. What exactly are you asking for Paul?

Agreed, but you make it sound like I already did not know that. When did I say that the Hornets should trade CP3 for just any player? I am saying that the Hornets should trade him for an All star big man if one gets on the trading block.

Talents like Paul go a long way in making you legit contenders for championships. Collison isn't even a top-5 PG in his own draft down the road.

Actually almost all past NBA champions have not had their best player as the PG. Talents like Chris Paul go a long way, yes, but if he can be traded for another great talent that the Hornets are weak at than that would go an even longer way in making the Hornets a contender.

You build a team around Collison, Thornton and an All-Star big man and you have a good team that won't sniff a title while you'll spend years hoping that a miraculous trade or draft lands you a talent equiparable to Paul that can make you legit contenders.

The Hornets haven't been legit contenders either besides the one year they made the Conference Finals. Chris Paul hasn't lead them to the promised land once yet.

Package Collison+West and try to get an All-Star caliber player.

That works too, but I just think that trading CP3 would get the Hornets an even better player in return.

It works both ways though. Collison makes CP3 expendable and vise versa. So if the Hornets could trade Collison for a great big man they should do it.

My point is that it's not worth it to have 2 very good players that play the same position unless one of them is versatile enough to play a different position.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:36 PM

Also, Jennings hasn't done crap since his first month. No way he should be in the discussion. He's young and has tons of potential, but his numbers aren't that good.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:38 PM

I'm not advocating trading CP3 anytime soon, but in case he wants to leave in a couple of seasons, not only would he bring back more players and draft picks, he would also have other teams take some of our bad contracts (Okafor, Posey).

himat

03-09-2010, 07:39 PM

It's hard to win a championship when your best player is a PG.

Thank you. If you look at the past few champions the PG is never the best player on the team.

Again I am not saying CP3 should be traded for just any player, but Collison's great play makes him a trading option that could get them a player at a different position who could possibly lead them to a title.

himat

03-09-2010, 07:39 PM

Also, Jennings hasn't done crap since his first month. No way he should be in the discussion. He's young and has tons of potential, but his numbers aren't that good.

:toast

Jennings has put up a ton of shots to get his numbers.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:40 PM

Thank you. If you look at the past few champions the PG is never the best player on the team.

Again I am not saying CP3 should be traded for just any player, but Collison's great play makes him a trading option that could get them a player at a different position who could possibly lead them to a title.

They could honestly get two really good players, a draft pick and get rid of Okafor's contract. I don't think trading Collison would do that.

himat

03-09-2010, 07:43 PM

They could honestly get two really good players, a draft pick and get rid of Okafor's contract. I don't think trading Collison would do that.

Thanks for helping me.:lol

Again I'm not saying that CP3 should be traded right away, but options should be looked at. Even though Collison is playing great, you are absolutely correct, teams will give up a lot more to get CP3.

All it takes is for a star player to get disgruntled in another team and the Hornets could get equal or greater value for CP3 in a trade.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:47 PM

Thanks for helping me.:lol

Again I'm not saying that CP3 should be traded right away, but options should be looked at. Even though Collison is playing great, you are absolutely correct, teams will give up a lot more to get CP3.

All it takes is for a star player to get disgruntled in another team and the Hornets could get equal or greater value for CP3 in a trade.

The last time a team won a championship with the PG being the best player was your team :lol

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 07:47 PM

I mean Isiah, not Chauncey.

mogrovejo

03-09-2010, 07:58 PM

Yeah but you were talking about LeBron and Richard Jefferson in your original post. LeBron is on the Cavs. Richard Jefferson is on the Spurs.

It's an analogy. What part of it you don't understand? Of course they were in different teams. Hey, Jefferson was actually drafted before James, so what I said made no sense!! Geez...

No you didn't. Stop trying to sound like a smart ass..

Sorry, I thought you were someone else. I had this conversation before.

Agreed, but you make it sound like I already did not know that. When did I say that the Hornets should trade CP3 for just any player? I am saying that the Hornets should trade him for an All star big man if one gets on the trading block.

Actually almost all past NBA champions have not had their best player as the PG. Talents like Chris Paul go a long way, yes, but if he can be traded for another great talent that the Hornets are weak at than that would go an even longer way in making the Hornets a contender.

The Hornets haven't been legit contenders either besides the one year they made the Conference Finals. Chris Paul hasn't lead them to the promised land once yet.

That works too, but I just think that trading CP3 would get the Hornets an even better player in return.

It works both ways though. Collison makes CP3 expendable and vise versa. So if the Hornets could trade Collison for a great big man they should do it.

My point is that it's not worth it to have 2 very good players that play the same position unless one of them is versatile enough to play a different position.

Not even LeBron guarantees a title.

Put the right team around Paul as you're best player and you have a decent chance of contending.

Put the right team around Collison and you better hope there's an All-NBA talent and at least another All-Star in that supporting role, because if Collison is your best player, you're headed to the lottery.

And you haven't explained: who would you trade Paul for? If it's not for an All-NBA 1st/2nd team, it's not worth it.

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 08:12 PM

Honestly, if another team takes Okafor's contract with Collison and gives up an All-Star player, I would think about it. This trade might be ok:

Hornets trade Collison/Slo-Feet/Okafor to the Lakers for Bynum/1st round pick

Bynum would instantly improve the Hornets defense which is the biggest reason why they will miss the playoffs and provide the team with a low post presence becoming a perfect fit with West. However, Bynum's injury history is a concern.

Trading West is not the answer. He has a very good contract and is still very productive. In order for the Hornets to really become a contender, they have to find a big market team who will take Okafor's contract.

himat

03-09-2010, 09:38 PM

I mean Isiah, not Chauncey.

:lol Yes you are absolutely correct. Chauncey ended up winning the Finals MVP but it was a whole team effort. Damn I miss that team.

himat

03-09-2010, 09:47 PM

It's an analogy. What part of it you don't understand? Of course they were in different teams. Hey, Jefferson was actually drafted before James, so what I said made no sense!! Geez...

Sorry, I thought you were someone else. I had this conversation before.

Put the right team around Collison and you better hope there's an All-NBA talent and at least another All-Star in that supporting role, because if Collison is your best player, you're headed to the lottery.

And you haven't explained: who would you trade Paul for? If it's not for an All-NBA 1st/2nd team, it's not worth it.

Thats my point. First off Collison is not the best player on the team right now. You could argue that West and/or Thornton are better.

But that's not a problem because a PG doesn't have to be the best player on the team (based on the history of NBA champions) they just have to be a good leader.

So the Hornets could trade him along with Peja/Okafor (Peja b/c he's washed up, or Okafor b/c of his contract) to get that 1st/2nd All-NBA player.

Who is that? I don't know because I'm not saying the Hornets should trade him right now. All I am saying is that Collison gives the Hornets the interesting option of trading CP3. If they don't see a 1st or 2nd All-NBA player in trade rumors oh well, but if they do why shouldn't they pull the trigger.

I don't care it hurts my argument to say that I don't know who that player is but thats the truth. What I can tell is that all it takes for a player to get disgruntled and then maybe the Hornets could actually get even more value than they deserve for trading Chris Paul.

mogrovejo

03-09-2010, 10:38 PM

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 11:19 PM

The All-NBA players in Chris Paul age bracket are:
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
.
Deron Williams
Brandon Roy

What are the chances of one of these players being available for a trade? Are you going to keep Paul and Collison in hopes that one day LeBron will get disgruntled and request a trade? It's ridiculous.

Doesn't matter if CP3 wants to leave in two years. Unless Hornets find a way to get rid of Okafor, they won't be able to build a team around CP3 with just West and Thornton. Trading West isn't the answer. He still comes cheap and is very productive.

mogrovejo

03-09-2010, 11:28 PM

Pelicans78

03-09-2010, 11:33 PM

West fell in love with hoisting shots too much. He has developed tunnel vision, doesn't defend, rebounds poorly. He's turning 30 years old in a hurry. Yes, he has a very club-friendly contract and the reputation, that's why you trade him for talent.

Paul will want to leave if you keep constructing shitty teams around him.

The plan for the Hornets must be to get rid of Okafor and Posey at all costs for players who expire at the same time of Peja, trade West+Collison for AS talent. If Paul is surrounded by talent and an upcoming team in 11, he won't leave and will negotiate an extension.

Not sure anyone will take Okafor or Posey unless Collison or CP3 is involved. As long as the Hornets can get a big center who can defend and post up, West will be fine.

West has some value, but its decreasing each season. We still need his scoring. Honestly, with CP3, the team needs two more scorers because CP3 has to focus on running the offense. The offense is better this season because of Thornton, but the defense is the biggest problem with losing Chandler. Okafor is just too short and small to defend the paint.

If the Hornets can acquire a big young center for Collison, I would trade him.

Killakobe81

03-10-2010, 01:47 AM

Tyreke 1st Curry 2nd Jennings 3rd but
Jennings only one in the playoffs that means something ...

Brazil

03-10-2010, 08:30 AM

No way, It's Tyreke. then Curry.

fify