Hollinger would take Bucks over Mavs in playoff series

[Findog]

Dirk is an extremely talented basketball player, but he's not a leader. It's just not in his imprint. As far as veteran savvy and basketball IQ, I'll say that they're all on the same level. Kidd was the leader of the Nets teams that reached the Finals. He's not the leader of the Mavericks today.
This is Dirk's team.

Dirk is not an Alpha Dog kind of leader, I will give you that. But how did you determine that the Mavericks are "Dirk's team" in that they don't respond to Kidd in the same way that Denver responds to Chauncey?


Chauncey also knows when it's time for heroics, and when it's time to cool it down. Tempo. He can run the fastbreak and can play the set offense. But above all, all his teammates trust him calling the shots. He knows when it's time to get mad, and when it's time to chill out. He knows when to put the foot on the throat and don't let go.

Those are on-court qualities, not "intangibles." That's another way of saying that Billups is a terrific game manager, as is Kidd. Which goes back to my original point: if Denver beats Dallas again, it will because they were a better and more cohesive team, not because they had "it" and the Mavs didn't.

[ElNono]

lol Suns. How many times do the Spurs need to own your team to finally "get it"?

He's a Mavfan troll with an identity crisis.

[ffadicted]

I'd take OKC, Denver, LA and Orlando in a series against Dallas. Other then that, fuck this article lol

[ezau]

10 straight years of 50+ wins, and sent your team fishing twice. Yeah, that's sucking :lol

did you get a trophy while doing so? Oh, it's 2006 right? Wait, mmmmm:lmao:lmao

[Findog]

The Mavs are Dirk's team. You can tell me how well Kidd has fit, and how important he is to what your team does, but ultimately the team is built around him. When push come to shove, he's the guy that makes or breaks your team.

How is that different from the Nuggets? If Carmelo doesn't show up to play against the Lakers and gives his team what he normally does, then Denver will lose to LA again, regardless of what Billups brings. Carmelo and Dirk are their teams most important players, the players whose success ultimately determines how far their team goes, while Kidd and Billups were brought in because of on-court fit and veteran leadership. If Carmelo has a bad series, then the Nuggets are going home. If Dirk shoots poorly, then the Mavs are going home

If Billups shoots poorly or Kidd isn't hitting his spot-up threes, they're both still managing a good floor game and providing a calming presence for their teammates.

[Findog]

did you get a trophy while doing so? Oh, it's 2006 right? Wait, mmmmm:lmao:lmao

Do you have anything to add to this discussion other than emoticons? Are you a 14-year-old girl?

[Findog]

He's a Mavfan troll with an identity crisis.

No, he's a Sunfan troll.

[ezau]

I don't care if a fan brags about his team winning titles, I'd do the same. It's just silly to act as if those titles grants you some kind of intellectual cred when it comes to bball knowledge.

Give me a break. A Mavs fan has no fucking idea what winning a title is all about.

[ezau]

Do you have anything to add to this discussion other than emoticons? Are you a 14-year-old girl?

Have the Mavs won a championship? Yes or No? :lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

Dirk is not an Alpha Dog kind of leader, I will give you that. But how did you determine that the Mavericks are "Dirk's team" in that they don't respond to Kidd in the same way that Denver responds to Chauncey?

Easy, you take Chauncey out of the equation for Denver, and they don't go anywhere, as seen in previous seasons. Even though Melo is the more talented player on that team, Chauncey is the emotional leader.
You look at Dallas, and Dirk is both the more talented player and emotional leader. Guys like Terry doesn't respond to Kidd. He responds to Dirk, period.
We could easily say that Denver goes as far as Chauncey takes them. Well, Dallas goes as far as Dirk takes them.


Those are on-court qualities, not "intangibles." That's another way of saying that Billups is a terrific game manager, as is Kidd. Which goes back to my original point: if Denver beats Dallas again, it will because they were a better and more cohesive team, not because they had "it" and the Mavs didn't.

Not all of them are on-court qualities. For example, one of the topics here lately about your team has been the inability to put the foot on the opponents throat and keep it there. There's a lot of psychological in that, and is part of what leaders bring. And Kidd was a terrific game manager when the team he played for played his strong qualities and took advantage of them. Like running and passing. But kudos to him for being able to reinvent himself to at least be effective when he's not playing his strong suit.
And I don't disagree with your assessment about one team beating another. Eventually, a cohesive team has both intangibles and overall talent. When the talent is tilted heavily in one favor, intangibles normally end up having less of an importance. But in the playoffs, the talent normally is pretty high, and so the importance of intangibles really come into play.

[ElNono]

How is that different from the Nuggets? If Carmelo doesn't show up to play against the Lakers and gives his team what he normally does, then Denver will lose to LA again, regardless of what Billups brings. Carmelo and Dirk are their teams most important players, the players whose success ultimately determines how far their team goes, while Kidd and Billups were brought in because of on-court fit and veteran leadership. If Carmelo has a bad series, then the Nuggets are going home. If Dirk shoots poorly, then the Mavs are going home

If Billups shoots poorly or Kidd isn't hitting his spot-up threes, they're both still managing a good floor game and providing a calming presence for their teammates.

No, Melo brings the talent. If they're facing the Lakers, then sure, you need both the talent and the intangibles. But Denver could beat a less talented team, say Portland or even Utah, without Melo. Once the talent is about even, then intangibles take a bigger role.

And the other distinction here is that when Dallas absolutely needs to score, they're gonna go to Dirk, not Kidd. On Denver, Chauncey is the guy that's gonna make the play.

[Findog]

Easy, you take Chauncey out of the equation for Denver, and they don't go anywhere, as seen in previous seasons. Even though Melo is the more talented player on that team, Chauncey is the emotional leader.

Dallas is much more equipped to make a deeper run in the playoffs with Kidd than Harris. The league is much different from 2006 in that the Spurs and Suns are no longer elite powers, while the Cavs, Magic and Lakers have risen in their place. Based on the current construction of the Dallas roster and the landscape of the league, I'd rather have Kidd than Harris. Harris was instrumental in 2006 in getting past the Spurs, but that was then and this is now.



Guys like Terry doesn't respond to Kidd.

Really? So when he raves about Kidd's leadership and intelligence and verbally sucks him off, he's not responding to him?



We could easily say that Denver goes as far as Chauncey takes them. Well, Dallas goes as far as Dirk takes them.

That's nonsense. Denver and Dallas can both survive bad series from Kidd and Billups more than they can from Dirk and Melo.




Not all of them are on-court qualities. For example, one of the topics here lately about your team has been the inability to put the foot on the opponents throat and keep it there.

Their most impressive wins in this streak have been against the Lakers, Magic, Hawks and Bobcats. In all of those games, Dallas shouldn't have been expected to blow those teams out and ended up executing better in crunch time. I'm not really worried when they build up a 23 pt lead against Indiana in the 4th Quarter and then the Pacers scrubs outplay the Dallas scrubs to bring the final margin of victory to 11, or they take the Nets lightly and get an early big deficit for their troubles.


There's a lot of psychological in that, and is part of what leaders bring.

Also, they've been decimated by injuries in this stretch (Dampier, Haywood and Terry) and yet keep finding ways to win without their full complement of players. But I guess that has nothing to do with being mentally strong and being a smart team that knows how to execute.

[Findog]

And the other distinction here is that when Dallas absolutely needs to score, they're gonna go to Dirk, not Kidd. On Denver, Chauncey is the guy that's gonna make the play.

Melo is never going to have his number called when they need a score?

[ElNono]

Dallas is much more equipped to make a deeper run in the playoffs with Kidd than Harris. The league is much different from 2006 in that the Spurs and Suns are no longer elite powers, while the Cavs, Magic and Lakers have risen in their place. Based on the current construction of the Dallas roster and the landscape of the league, I'd rather have Kidd than Harris. Harris was instrumental in 2006 in getting past the Spurs, but that was then and this is now.

Is that really your answer to this?



Easy, you take Chauncey out of the equation for Denver, and they don't go anywhere, as seen in previous seasons. Even though Melo is the more talented player on that team, Chauncey is the emotional leader.


Really? So when he raves about Kidd's leadership and intelligence and verbally sucks him off, he's not responding to him?

Everybody sucks everybody else off. They're veteran teammates, that's what they do.


That's nonsense. Denver and Dallas can both survive bad series from Kidd and Billups more than they can from Dirk and Melo.

No, Denver can't survive a bad series from Billups. Dallas certainly can survive a bad series from Kidd.


Their most impressive wins in this streak have been against the Lakers, Magic, Hawks and Bobcats. In all of those games, Dallas shouldn't have been expected to blow those teams out and ended up executing better in crunch time. I'm not really worried when they build up a 23 pt lead against Indiana in the 4th Quarter and then the Pacers scrubs outplay the Dallas scrubs to bring the final margin of victory to 11, or they take the Nets lightly and get an early big deficit for their troubles.

I'll give you that, during the regular season, all teams take nights off.


Also, they've been decimated by injuries in this stretch (Dampier, Haywood and Terry) and yet keep finding ways to win without their full complement of players. But I guess that has nothing to do with being mentally strong and being a smart team that knows how to execute.

No, it has to do with being the regular season. There's no actual pressure now. There's even extra motivation to keep the streak going. The playoffs bring a different intensity, and that's where players are made.

[ElNono]

Melo is never going to have his number called when they need a score?

Chauncey is the guy that the ball has to go to. He might create for somebody else if he can't score himself, but the go to guy at that point is Chauncey. As much as Dirk is the go to guy in those instances for Dallas.

[Ghazi]

elnon, cut your losses imo

"spurs in 5"

[ElNono]

elnon, cut your losses imo

"spurs in 5"

I'm going to be supporting my team until the last game we play. Realistically though, I don't think we have the talent this season, much like last season. Intangibles simply can't make up for that kind of disparity.

[ElNono]

Anyways, time to sleep. Gotta work tomorrow.
It was fun trolling the trolls and exchanging opinions with the non-trolls.
I'll try to follow up with Mr Findog tomorrow. :toast

[adrienne]

Hollinger is a douche. Just listen to Stein. And everyone else who isn't Hollinger.

[sefant77]

Could this "gnhihihi 2006" fucktrolls leave this thread and not ruin this actual nice "discussion" that was going on here?

[in2deep]

I dont see how anyonce can say Dallas would beat Denver in playoffs. Last year, Denver won easily. This year Dallas is better on paper, but Denver has more experience together too. It would be a nice competitive series going either way

[Findog]

Is that really your answer to this?


Chauncey can be an emotional leader all he wants, but his greatest value to that team is that he's an actual PG who can run an offense and doesn't rattle in crunch time. Kidd has those exact same qualities. Now we can dissect the games of Kidd and Billups, and on balance, I'd give a slight edge to Billups as the better player, but I don't see Billups as having a discernable edge in the intangible values as veteran savvy, unselfishness, basketball IQ and alpha dog temperament.


No, Denver can't survive a bad series from Billups. Dallas certainly can survive a bad series from Kidd.

And they REALLY can't survive a bad series from Melo. If Billups shoots poorly, he's still running the offense and getting everyone involved and not turning the ball over.




I'll give you that, during the regular season, all teams take nights off.

Right, which is why not too much should be made of the Mavs "only" beating NJ by 9 points.



No, it has to do with being the regular season. There's no actual pressure now. There's even extra motivation to keep the streak going. The playoffs bring a different intensity, and that's where players are made.

And the Mavericks have as much playoff experience as anybody. They're not going to be playoff virgins like the Zombie Sonics or most members of the Charlotte Bobcats. When it comes to "understanding what playoff basketball is all about" the Nuggets don't have an edge on the Mavericks. No team does. I would say, however, that LA, Cleveland, Denver and Orlando have an edge on the Mavericks when it comes to roster construction as it relates to winning a title.

[Brazil]

Hollinger is just saying the truth, the bucks would win 4-2 against the mavs even without home court

[oligarchy]

http://www.tacocabana.com/eclub/

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2zi7KBS6sG0/SJaW4N9AXTI/AAAAAAAAADg/b9LnYK4U4as/s400/hair+club

Generalizing is lame. ^- post some more pictures of yourself after you finish the procedure. lol

[Goran Dragic]

I'm going to be supporting my team until Manu signs with a different team.

fify

[Findog]

Generalizing is lame. ^- post some more pictures of yourself after you finish the procedure. lol

Post some pictures of yourself fatty if you're so indignant about being stereotyped as a fat Taco C lover. Since you're so svelte and all.

[Goran Dragic]

He's a Mavfan troll with an identity crisis.


Yes, that's exactly what I am. Jesus no wonder why the Nazis have your country wrapped around their little fingers, you fucks are really fuckin stupid.

[oligarchy]

Post some pictures of yourself fatty if you're so indignant about being stereotyped as a fat Taco C lover. Since you're so svelte and all.

LOL. Dumb, bald, ugly fucking retard. Post some more pictures -- I need a good laugh this morning, there "Hair Club!" :lmao

Post another one of your ugly bitch on your arm. LOL.

Excuse me, I need to go take a Findog. I'll make sure I wipe and flush you.

[Findog]

LOL. Dumb, bald, ugly fucking retard. Post some more pictures -- I need a good laugh this morning, there "Hair Club!"

Post another one of your ugly bitch on your arm.

.

Okay Fatty. I'll do that just as soon as you work up the courage to post pictures of your fat ass struggling to fit into a booth at Taco C.

[oligarchy]

Okay Fatty. I'll do that just as soon as you work up the courage to post pictures of your fat ass struggling to fit into a booth at Taco C.

Fatty! Zing. That was good. If it makes you feel better to pretend I'm fat, while you are still bald, it's okay. It's called transference. You're projecting some bad image of me, while trying to make your shiny head happy. Perhaps you know LEONARD and you two just "shave" your heads. Maybe I'll take a picture of me driving and the wind blowing through my hair. :lol

[Findog]

^ Post some pictures of your fat ass masturbating to Taco C coupons. We know you've never even smelled a vagina before, except your sister's.

[oligarchy]

^ Post some pictures of your fat ass masturbating to Taco C coupons. We know you've never even smelled a vagina before, except your sister's.

That was pure classic. I mean, you really have this dialed in Hair Club. You look this up in your little "Stupid Ass things to say on a message board" notepad? You saying I haven't smelled vagina before makes me laugh more than your ugly, bald pictures and that ugly bitch that is your wife/girlfriend/cousing you fuck. LOL.. The indisputable fact still remains: You are one ugly bald, son-of-a-bitch. You take pictures with fucking ugly ass women.

Please, make another fat joke, I'm so OBESE!!!!!! STOP! I'm tearing up. Really. Can you recommend a weight loss program? And, I don't mean losing hair, because that doesn't lose any real weight. You should know that though.

[Findog]

^ All I know is that you're too chickenshit to post pictures of yourself when you're more than willing to take cheap shots at others. Let's see pictures of your fat virgin ass and then maybe you can talk. If Brad Pitt or George Clooney want to critique my personal appearance, that's fine, but I'm not going to accept criticism from a burrito-eating homunculus like yourself. Like I give a fuck what "oligarchy" on Spurstalk thinks.

xoxo,

Findog

[oligarchy]

Awww. Cheapshots. sniffle. sniffle.

It's okay to cry. Crying takes the sad out.

Funny, that your bullshit isn't cheapshots. Fucking lame, ugly-loving, bald bastard.

Oh, in this made up "fat virgin" thing, can you tell me my race? I want to know what you have pictured in your bald head. Am I Mexican, Black, Asian/Pacific Islander (You know Pacific Islander's are the "world's fattest"), "White?"

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Awww. Cheapshots. sniffle. sniffle.

It's okay to cry. Crying takes the sad out.

Funny, that your bullshit isn't cheapshots. Fucking lame, ugly-loving, bald bastard.

Oh, in this made up "fat virgin" thing, can you tell me my race? I want to know what you have pictured in your bald head. Am I Mexican, Black, Asian/Pacific Islander (You know Pacific Islander's are the "world's fattest"), "White?"


Actually mexicans who live in san antonio are the worlds' fattest.

[Findog]

Oh, in this made up "fat virgin" thing, can you tell me my race? I want to know what you have pictured in your bald head. Am I Mexican, Black, Asian/Pacific Islander (You know Pacific Islander's are the "world's fattest"), "White?"

Whatever you say fat virgin. Post a picture so we can find out for sure. Since you're so handsome and dashing, surely you don't mind posting a picture so all the ladies can admire how good you have it.

http://blog.taragana.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/sean-connery.jpg

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/events/SPX-018305.jpg

http://cdn.mymajicdc.com/files//2009/10/bruce-willis.jpg

http://vulcanstev.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/patrick2520stewart.jpg

[dirk4mvp]

This guy has a real hard on for Findawg, imho. Borderline creepy tbh.

[oligarchy]

Actually mexicans who live in san antonio are the worlds' fattest.

That definitely bodes well for me.

[Findog]

This guy has a real hard on for Findawg, imho. Borderline creepy tbh.

He seems obsessed with my personal appearance for some reason. Why he worries so much about another dude's looks, I'll leave that up to him to figure out.

[Findog]

Oligarchy:

"This is what I look like!"

http://topnews.in/light/files/george_clooney_7.jpg

What others say oligarchy looks like:

http://api.ning.com/files/Zr6CUuiHFWP-83OPXxTPVuNrSYCh13T7TlE4Kp-dTNj8c-6rElM3MiXOQSVaf5joqkfBXFjs5QmwmdZvJ0oDFkuMddZCvQMY/nerd.jpg

[oligarchy]

He seems obsessed with my personal appearance for some reason. Why he worries so much about another dude's looks, I'll leave that up to him to figure out.

Funny, you cast everyone who posts on these boards as fat Mexicans who eat Taco Cabana. You have no clue what people look like, but you posted a picture to show everyone you're a fucking ugly fucking bald reject who hangs around ugly bitches.

Those who are ugly as fuck, like yourself, shouldn't even comment on anyone's appearance. That's what I'm telling you.

[Findog]

Those who are ugly as fuck, like yourself, shouldn't even comment on anyone's appearance. That's what I'm telling you.

So you are an expert on what makes a man sexy and handsome??? You seem VERY vehement about this. I'm sorry that I don't give you a boner like Brad Pitt or George Clooney and I don't make the cut of what you find attractive in another guy.

[oligarchy]

So you are an expert on what makes a man sexy and handsome??? You seem VERY vehement about this. I'm sorry that I don't give you a boner like Brad Pitt or George Clooney and I don't make the cut of what you find attractive in another guy.

No. I just showed your picture to my wife and her friends and I said you single. They said "NO SHIT." :depressed

It's okay, they think it's the bald thing and your fucked up face. The good news is, there's nothing you can do about it. That bad news, it really is YOUR face.

[Findog]

No. I just showed your picture to my "wife" and her friends and I said you single. They said "NO SHIT."

It's okay, they think it's the bald thing and your fucked up face. The good news is, there's nothing you can do about it. That bad news, it really is YOUR face.

Listen, this thread is about the Mavericks getting dissed by Hollinger, not how you don't find me sexy enough. I apologize again that I'm not what you find attractive in another man. You should start another thread about how I'm not sexy enough for you if that's what you want to talk about. It's not good thread etiquette to hijack this thread to talk about how I don't meet your standards for being a sexy man that you would want to be cornholed by. For starters, I'm not into that, and secondly, you have different taste in men anyways.

[oligarchy]

Listen, this thread is about the Mavericks getting dissed by Hollinger, not how you don't find me sexy enough. I apologize again that I'm not what you find attractive in another man. You should start another thread about how I'm not sexy enough for you if that's what you want to talk about. It's not good thread etiquette to hijack this thread to talk about how I don't meet your standards for being a sexy man that you would want to be cornholed by. For starters, I'm not into that, and secondly, you have different taste in men anyways.

WTF? Is that what you've been thinking about? This whole time, I've been making fun of your ugly bald ass and the ugly bitches you hang out with, you have been having fantasies of me? Sick man. Sick. Let's get this clear. NO I WILL NOT LET YOU TOUCH MY DICK. NO sir. I Will NOT let you touch my anus or any other body part.

Funny that you are now trying to insinuate that I'm gay. So, I'm fat, mexican?, gay, and a virgin. You should throw in a few more things that "I am." It may help your bald head sleep better. Keep humping those ugly bitches! LOL.

It's okay that you suck at life, and like to hook up with ugly bitches.

[Findog]

This whole time, I've been making fun of your ugly bald ass

You just spent 2 pages on an internet message board going on and on and on and on and on about how you don't find another man attractive. You've put a lot of time and thought into your feelings on this. It's sixty degrees and sunny and you're indoors on the Internet talking about how another man doesn't turn you on. Yeah, that's not gay at all. :)

[mavs>spurs2]

WTF? Is that what you've been thinking about? This whole time, I've been making fun of your ugly bald ass and the ugly bitches you hang out with, you have been having fantasies of me? Sick man. Sick. Let's get this clear. NO I WILL NOT LET YOU TOUCH MY DICK. NO sir. I Will NOT let you touch my anus or any other body part.

Funny that you are now trying to insinuate that I'm gay. So, I'm fat, mexican?, gay, and a virgin. You should throw in a few more things that "I am." It may help your bald head sleep better. Keep humping those ugly bitches! LOL.

It's okay that you suck at life, and like to hook up with ugly bitches.

fail. you're the faggot who sees findog in a lesser light because you don't find him "sexy" yet for some reason still have a creepy fascination with him.

maybe you're just not all that into looks afterall and love findog for his brilliant posts?

[oligarchy]

...you're indoors on the Internet talking about how another man doesn't turn you on. ...

LOL. You're right -- MEN don't turn me on, I'm sorry if men turn you on. I mean, most people couldn't discern whether the women you hook up with are men or women. So, I definitely get this whole fantasy you've been playing out. Go get some more uglies, you bald fucker!

[JustBlaze]

How bout them Bucks. Second best record in the L since the All-Star break wasn't it?:hat

[Findog]

fail. you're the faggot who sees findog in a lesser light because you don't find him "sexy" yet for some reason still have a creepy fascination with him.



Spending two pages on a messageboard arguing vehemently that you don't find another dude sexy = epic self-ownage. :lol

I'm sure he has a picture saved on his hard drive that he can post here. Or he can bump the thread in question where I posted a pic of myself and my girlfriend since that's his homepage. And since he's so good-looking himself, he could post a picture of himself to show us all how good he has it.

[oligarchy]

fail. you're the faggot who sees findog in a lesser light because you don't find him "sexy" yet for some reason still have a creepy fascination with him.

maybe you're just not all that into looks afterall and love findog for his brilliant posts?

Oh NOES. Findog's BF to the rescue. You two should cuddle. Shine his head! I'm sorry if I don't use the term "sexy," I'll leave that for you two fuckers. I guess that was a picture of you and Findog together. DON'T MAKE BABIES, for the love of GOD, PLEASE!

[Findog]

You are not sexy! I don't find you attractive! I like my men like I like my coffee - strong and black

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

FYI oligarchy, you're posting in Findog's thread with an avatar talking about Findog's head, i don't think he's the one obsessed with you.

[Findog]

FYI oligarchy, you're posting in Findog's thread with an avatar talking about Findog's head, i don't think he's the one obsessed with you.

Nothing gay about posting for 2 pages running about how you don't think another man is sexy, and changing your avatar to reference another person. Nothing gay and obsessive about that.

[oligarchy]

I'm going to cry because I like ugly bitches and I'm bald. Someone jump in here and make fun of him too, I'm running out of shit to make up.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/211_kleenex.jpg

[IronMexican]

You guys just don't understand what it takes. You've never sat in front of the TV and watched your team win it all. Not everyone can sit in front of a TV and watch a team win a championship.

[mavs>spurs2]

Shine his head!

sure, i'll shine it with your armpit grease, you nasty fat beaner

[mattb_25]

LOL Oligarchy, what a fail noob.. He wants your balls findog, hes just playing hard to get.

[JustBlaze]

How bout them Raiders?:lmao

[adrienne]

This thread took a vaguely creepy turn.

[mavs>spurs2]

This thread took a vaguely creepy turn.

original mav fan in the house, whats up!!!!

[Findog]

This thread took a vaguely creepy turn.

Well, that's what happens when somebody accidentally outs themselves.

[oligarchy]

sure, i'll shine it with your armpit grease, you nasty fat beaner

Take his cock out of your mouth you fat nasty beaner. You and Findog love to make up stupid ass shit. How about you log off the high school library computer and get back to class.

[mavs>spurs2]

Take his cock out of your mouth you fat nasty beaner. You and Findog love to make up stupid ass shit. How about you log off the high school library computer and get back to class.

i just aced all 4 of my exams and i'm back home and officially on SPRING BREAK, MOTHERFUCKER!!!

more time to run train on and humiliate faggot posters such as yourself, you dirty beaner you

[Trainwreck2100]

also who the fuck is oligarchy? How did I miss 1000 posts from dis guy

[oligarchy]

Well, that's what happens when somebody accidentally outs themselves.

Yes, yes you did. You brought in all this gay collusion, which points directly to you being a faggot. Especially seing as you post pictures of girls you hump, probably anally, because they look like dudes. They probably are dudes. It's a picture of you and mavs<spurs. The hump buddies that post together.

[mattb_25]

On further note, remember when you were a kid, and the girls would always pick on you but secretly they liked you, then sometimes you would end up goin with the girl? This thread has actually made me come to the conclusion that Oligarchy is a bi chick and 12 -14 years old who has a girlfriend, but is looking for a man in her life (Findog)

[mavs>spurs2]

also who the fuck is oligarchy? How did I miss 1000 posts from dis guy

they were just THAT unremarkable, IMHO

also, this is what happens when one of the mouthbreathers from the other forum stumbles upon the nba section. they come over lost, dazed, confused, and out of their element and just get thrown to the wolves.

[clambake]

fin, someone has taken a fancy to you.

[Findog]

they were just THAT unremarkable, IMHO

also, this is what happens when one of the mouthbreathers from the other forum stumbles upon the nba section. they come over lost, dazed, confused, and out of their element and just get thrown to the wolves.

This one accidentally outed himself. I've never seen somebody that had VERY STRONG opinions about another man's looks.

[oligarchy]

i just aced all 4 of my exams and i'm back home and officially on SPRING BREAK, MOTHERFUCKER!!!

more time to run train on and humiliate faggot posters such as yourself, you dirty beaner you

You're just like Findog. You like to project. In reality, what you are saying is that you'd like nothing more than try something sexual with another. I'm telling you though, I don't do the gay thing. Findog, however, loves men, as apparent in the pictures of the "women" he dates. I believe it's a picture of you, so I'm sorry if he termed you as a women. That must make you the catcher.

I'm sure you two are a cute couple.

[Trainwreck2100]

they were just THAT unremarkable, IMHO

also, this is what happens when one of the mouthbreathers from the other forum stumbles upon the nba section. they come over lost, dazed, confused, and out of their element and just get thrown to the wolves.

his name isn't noob gray and I have no idea who he is it's weird

[IronMexican]

How bout them Raiders?:lmao

How bout them fagot ass broncos? 6-0...8-8

[mattb_25]

You're just like Findog. You like to project. In reality, what you are saying is that you'd like nothing more than try something sexual with another. I'm telling you though, I don't do the gay thing. Findog, however, loves men, as apparent in the pictures of the "women" he dates. I believe it's a picture of you, so I'm sorry if he termed you as a women. That must make you the catcher.

I'm sure you two are a cute couple.

LOL cant you get Findog of your mind for a bit? HOLY SHIT he has the love bug!!!!!!!!!

[John Ameachi]

You're just like Findog. You like to project. In reality, what you are saying is that you'd like nothing more than try something sexual with another. I'm telling you though, I don't do the gay thing. Findog, however, loves men, as apparent in the pictures of the "women" he dates. I believe it's a picture of you, so I'm sorry if he termed you as a women. That must make you the catcher.

I'm sure you two are a cute couple.


Hey sexy! You cumin' (I spelled it with a u tee, hee) over tonight to pick up where we started off? It'll be like running backwards through a cornfield butt naked, I remember you fantasizing about that.

[Findog]

LOL cant you get Findog of your mind for a bit? HOLY SHIT he has the love bug!!!!!!!!!

I think I may need to take out a restraining order. :lol

[mattb_25]

Hey sexy! You cumin' (I spelled it with a u tee, hee) over tonight to pick up where we started off? It'll be like running backwards through a cornfield butt naked, I remember you fantasizing about that.

LOL niceee....

[mavs>spurs2]

You're just like Findog. You like to project. In reality, what you are saying is that you'd like nothing more than try something sexual with another. I'm telling you though, I don't do the gay thing. Findog, however, loves men, as apparent in the pictures of the "women" he dates. I believe it's a picture of you, so I'm sorry if he termed you as a women. That must make you the catcher.

I'm sure you two are a cute couple.

my pic is in my avatar, faggot

but that's cool if you want to just keep repeating the same shitty smack, you've said it 3 times now, cool story bro

[JustBlaze]

How bout them fagot ass broncos? 6-0...8-8
Son, that's the second time you played the Bronco card. Thought I already told you I don't follow "Foot"ball. Lol Donkies.

[mattb_25]

I think I may need to take out a restraining order. :lol

Haha yeah, I've seen things like this happen with my friends, and it usually never resolves itself, albeit it's never a guy (like Oligarchy) who loves another guy.

[oligarchy]

my pic is in my avatar, faggot

Don't lie. Findog posted the pic of the two of you. Catcher. It's okay, though, I would lie about that shit too.

[IronMexican]

Son, that's the second time you played the Bronco card. Thought I already told you I don't follow "Foot"ball. Lol Donkies.

Well, then, fuck you anyways.

[clambake]

Don't lie. Findog posted the pic of the two of you. Catcher. It's okay, though, I would lie about that shit too.

i don't know you, but i'm embarrassed for you.

[John Ameachi]

Don't lie. Findog posted the pic of the two of you. Catcher. It's okay, though, I would lie about that shit too.


Don't pretend you don't like catching silly goose. Sometimes we get carried away with pitch and catch and you need a wheelchair the next morning.

[mavs>spurs2]

Don't pretend you don't like catching silly goose. Sometimes we get carried away with pitch and catch and you need a wheelchair the next morning.

yup, john is a big man :lmao

[oligarchy]

yup, john is a big man :lmao

And you would know, faggot. :lol

You and Findog must threesome with him.

[Findog]

Wow, we're up to 4 pages of oligarchy talking about another dude's looks and how he's not sexy enough for him. It's sixty and sunny outside. You can hit that X in the top-right corner Oli and get a life anytime you want. If I weren't stuck at work that's what I'd be doing.

[John Ameachi]

yup, john is a big man :lmao


I remember how tiny oligarchy's tiny little butt hole was when I met him. That thing is looser than Paris Hilton these days.

[mavs>spurs2]

And you would know, faggot. :lol

You and Findog must threesome with him.

nope it was that pm meant for john you accidentally sent me that tipped you off, tbh

[John Ameachi]

And you would know, faggot. :lol


Don't pretend you don't know silly oly. After Greg Oden turned down being your pitcher you had to run to me because you like that big negro dick. Don't worry a lot of women do to.

[oligarchy]

Wow, we're up to 4 pages of oligarchy talking about another dude's looks and how he's not sexy enough for him. It's sixty and sunny outside. You can hit that X in the top-right corner Oli and get a life anytime you want. If I weren't stuck at work that's what I'd be doing.

Quote where I used the term sexy, you fucking cock-loving faggot. Get get your man-on-man love with mavs<spurs.

[oligarchy]

Don't pretend you don't know silly oly. After Greg Oden turned down being your pitcher you had to run to me because you like that big negro dick. Don't worry a lot of women do to.

You're a weak ass troll.

[John Ameachi]

Quote where I used the term sexy, you fucking cock-loving faggot. Get get your man-on-man love with mavs<spurs.


You can ignore me all you want Jeff but we both know you're coming over to Bear's Gentleman's Club with me tonight.

[John Ameachi]

weak ass


Quit talking about yourself silly.

[mavs>spurs2]

Quote where I used the term sexy, you fucking cock-loving faggot.

:lmao somebody's getting pissed!


Get get your man-on-man love with mavs<spurs.

lol, so mad that you're stuttering :lmao

[clambake]

You're a weak ass troll.

so....you know about his ass.

[John Ameachi]

:lmao somebody's getting pissed!



lol, so mad that you're stuttering :lmao


Jeff has a bad temper. He tries to get abuse sometimes, it's a turn on.

[John Ameachi]

so....you know about his ass.


He doesn't know much about my ass he likes to play the feminine roll.

[oligarchy]

I'm so angry. I just can't stand it that homos are trying to pretend I'm gay. Stop it. Just because you guys keep calling me gay, doesn't mean I want anything to do with your homosexualness.

LOL. I was fat, then a mexican, a virgin, and now I'm gay. You guys got me all twisted up. It's okay, it's all that gay in the brain.

Stop.. You guys are BuLLIES!

[mavs>spurs2]

I'm so angry. I just can't stand it that homos are trying to pretend I'm gay. Stop it. Just because you guys keep calling me gay, doesn't mean I want anything to do with your homosexualness.

LOL. I was fat, then a mexican, a virgin, and now I'm gay. You guys got me all twisted up. It's okay, it's all that gay in the brain.

Stop.. You guys are BuLLIES!

You've got a lot of gay on your mind brah

[monosylab2k]

great thread :toast

[oligarchy]

You've got a lot of gay on your mind brah

Doesn't change the fact that you're Findog loving faggot. Why don't post that pic of you two again.

[John Ameachi]

Doesn't change the fact that you're Findog loving faggot. Why don't post that pic of you two again.


I'd post the videos we make but I don't want to get banned.

[mattb_25]

WOWWWWW I've never seen anyone get so mad that they stuttered while TYPING... LOL this thread is classic, thank you oligarchy, your one of a kind.

[John Ameachi]

I'm so angry. I just can't stand it that homos are trying to pretend I'm gay. Stop it. Just because you guys keep calling me gay, doesn't mean I want anything to do with your homosexualness.

LOL. I was fat, then a mexican, a virgin, and now I'm gay. You guys got me all twisted up. It's okay, it's all that gay in the brain.

Stop.. You guys are BuLLIES!


We all know you're a fat Mexican, I like chubby brown butthole so that's ok. Do you wanna get 2 five buck boxes before we do work like Kobe tonight?

[ElNono]

Chauncey can be an emotional leader all he wants, but his greatest value to that team is that he's an actual PG who can run an offense and doesn't rattle in crunch time. Kidd has those exact same qualities. Now we can dissect the games of Kidd and Billups, and on balance, I'd give a slight edge to Billups as the better player, but I don't see Billups as having a discernable edge in the intangible values as veteran savvy, unselfishness, basketball IQ and alpha dog temperament.

And that's exactly why you don't know your team cannot possibly win it all.


And they REALLY can't survive a bad series from Melo. If Billups shoots poorly, he's still running the offense and getting everyone involved and not turning the ball over.

Sure they can survive a bad series from Melo. It just depends on the opponent. For example, they could beat Portland without Melo. They couldn't without Billups.


And the Mavericks have as much playoff experience as anybody. They're not going to be playoff virgins like the Zombie Sonics or most members of the Charlotte Bobcats. When it comes to "understanding what playoff basketball is all about" the Nuggets don't have an edge on the Mavericks. No team does. I would say, however, that LA, Cleveland, Denver and Orlando have an edge on the Mavericks when it comes to roster construction as it relates to winning a title.

That's where you're flat out wrong. Talent-wise, the Mavs are probably just as good as Denver. Since that is somewhat evened out, then intangibles come into play. And Dallas doesn't have them.

[mavs>spurs2]

Doesn't change the fact that you're Findog loving faggot. Why don't post that pic of you two again.

my pic is in my avatar

why don't you go ahead and ask fin out so he can publicly reject you? :lol

[oligarchy]

Yeah. You because you guys are fucking geniuses. The gay coup thinks I'm fat and mexican. Woe is me.

[John Ameachi]

my pic is in my avatar

why don't you go ahead and ask fin out so he can publicly reject you? :lol


Because he's taken :hungry:

[ElNono]

Yes, that's exactly what I am.

We know who you are. You keep diverting the conversation towards Nazis, obviously you probably had your own experiences in your native Yugoslavia, and maybe you need to seek professional help on the subject.

Do you think the complete frustration you experience due to your team failing year after year might have contributed to that?

[oligarchy]

my pic is in my avatar

why don't you go ahead and ask fin out so he can publicly reject you? :lol

Sure it is. You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true. Why don't you post the pic of you two? I think you two were in front of a lake. :lol

[ElNono]

It's a shame this thread got derailed just when we were finally having a decent conversation...

[clambake]

I think you two were in front of a lake. :lol

do you want him to:

take you to the river
wash you in the water?

[clambake]

It's a shame this thread got derailed just when we were finally having a decent conversation...

the mavs could win, its possible.

mav fans have modest goals. just beat the spurs is one of them. now that that is taken care of, we can raise a little expectation.

at least the mavs are competitive.

[Findog]

And that's exactly why you don't know your team cannot possibly win it all.

What "it" qualities does Billups have that Kidd doesn't? Spell it for me at the risk of being pedantic.



Sure they can survive a bad series from Melo.

Yeah, and Cleveland can survive a bad series from LeBron, the Lakers can survive a bad series from Kobe.




That's where you're flat out wrong. Talent-wise, the Mavs are probably just as good as Denver. Since that is somewhat evened out, then intangibles come into play. And Dallas doesn't have them.

Jason Kidd has everything Billups does in terms of mental makeup, and the Mavs have more accumulated playoff experience than Denver. With their leader, Denver got smacked down hard at home in Game 6 to the champs. A bounce of the ball here or there, and the Mavs are 2006 champs without such a leader.

[Findog]

It's a shame this thread got derailed just when we were finally having a decent conversation...

I put oligarchy on ignore about 2 pages back. I suggest you do the same. If I want a detailed critique of sexiness in dudes, there are other places on the internet for that.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I put oligarchy on ignore about 2 pages back. I suggest you do the same. If I want a detailed critique of sexiness in dudes, there are other places on the internet for that.



Have you considered maybe Oligarchy just wanted to pose on your site about men holding old computers? He's probably pissed that he couldn't make it as a computer holding model.

[oligarchy]

Have you considered maybe Oligarchy just wanted to pose on your site about men holding old computers? He's probably pissed that he couldn't make it as a computer holding model.

Yeah :( I wasn't geeky, bald, gay, mexican, or liked ugly women. They wouldn't accept me.

[icem]

mavs have struggled against the bucks for years, its not that far fetched.

[JustBlaze]

What "it" qualities does Billups have that Kidd doesn't? Spell it for me at the risk of being pedantic.
That's easy. He lacks the killer instinct offensively. You wish Kidd is as aggressive as Chauncey is offensively.





Yeah, and Cleveland can survive a bad series from LeBron, the Lakers can survive a bad series from Kobe.Lol @ you for thinking Melo is as important for his team than both LeBron and Kobe for their respective teams. The Nuggets can survive a series with a healthy team and a struggling Melo. Even if Melo struggles, Nuggets have enough fire power offensively to make up for it. Don't believe me? Go check out how many points Nugz were putting up when Melo was out with his injury. Defensively, Melo doesn't do much, in fact I'm sure the Nuggets are better defensively when he sits, however if he's struggling ofensively then no reason to have him out there with JR more than capable of playing the 3 alongside Aflalo. Of course it's not going to be easy.





Jason Kidd has everything Billups does in terms of mental makeup, and the Mavs have more accumulated playoff experience than Denver. With their leader, Denver got smacked down hard at home in Game 6 to the champs. A bounce of the ball here or there, and the Mavs are 2006 champs without such a leader.Didn't the Mavs also have more "accumulated playoff experience" than the Nugz last season as well? That didn't bode so well for them now did it? (Cue the match-up excuse)

[mavs>spurs2]

findog what's up with the men holding tube monitors thing that was pretty weird IMHO

[lefty]

At least Bucks have a title :lobt2:

[ElNono]

What "it" qualities does Billups have that Kidd doesn't? Spell it for me at the risk of being pedantic.

We can go through this again. No problem.
Chauncey is the head of the snake in Denver. He's their emotional leader, their catalyst. Unlike Kidd, he's not a role player or second banana to anybody on that team. Furthermore, he's such a good fit on that team, because he is just as good on transition as he is on the half-court game, and Denver has great talent to run either. Kidd is the master of passing, specially in transition. But in the half-court game, he is just another role player. No different than say, Terry. With Jason being probably even more effective career-wise, being he's the better shooter.
In a nutshell, Billups brings leadership to Denver, and a coach on the floor. Something that it's definitely an intangible, and in Denver's case, it really has transformed them. Kidd brings respect and professionalism to the locker room, but not necessarily that kind of leadership, which IMO, in Dallas, is on Dirk's shoulders.


Yeah, and Cleveland can survive a bad series from LeBron, the Lakers can survive a bad series from Kobe.

Well, no, it's different. Both Kobe and Lebron are the leaders of their respective teams. Melo is not the leader of Denver.


Jason Kidd has everything Billups does in terms of mental makeup, and the Mavs have more accumulated playoff experience than Denver. With their leader, Denver got smacked down hard at home in Game 6 to the champs. A bounce of the ball here or there, and the Mavs are 2006 champs without such a leader.

Well, we obviously do not agree on this, and that's ok. Miami ended up winning in 6 games, and Dallas paid dearly for not having a leader out there when the pressure mounted from Game 3 onwards. It's no surprise that, to this day, they haven't gone further than the second round since that debacle.
With Kidd or without him. I agree that the talent on the team improved with the latest trade, but the other teams already had better talent so, if anything, Dallas is merely catching up on that department. None of the new additions, however, give you much in the intangibles department. You're still relying on Dirk being the emotional leader, and Kidd being the second banana alongside Terry.

[Findog]

That's easy. He lacks the killer instinct offensively. You wish Kidd is as aggressive as Chauncey is offensively.

He lacks a reliable mid-range jumper, but :lol at Kidd not having a killer instinct.




Lol @ you for thinking Melo is as important for his team than both LeBron and Kobe for their respective teams. The Nuggets can survive a series with a healthy team and a struggling Melo. Even if Melo struggles, Nuggets have enough fire power offensively to make up for it. Don't believe me? Go check out how many points Nugz were putting up when Melo was out with his injury. Defensively, Melo doesn't do much, in fact I'm sure the Nuggets are better defensively when he sits, however if he's struggling ofensively then no reason to have him out there with JR more than capable of playing the 3 alongside Aflalo. Of course it's not going to be easy.

Melo is a well-rounded and complete player now. I don't know about him making an All-Defense team, but he plays and competes on both ends of the floor now. After being dumb and immature, I think he gets it now. My contention is that they can't survive Melo shooting poorly because that's what he does best. If Billups is shooting poorly, he's still taking care of the ball and running the offense and doing an excellent job of managing the game. There's a baseline that is always going to be there with Billups' floor game.





Didn't the Mavs also have more "accumulated playoff experience" than the Nugz last season as well? That didn't bode so well for them now did it? (Cue the match-up excuse)


Yeah, and they lost because Denver had a better team. El Nono says Denver won because they had the mystical "it" that you need to win a title. I think the Nuggets were just better last year, and "it" had nothing to do with it.

[ElNono]

I put oligarchy on ignore about 2 pages back. I suggest you do the same. If I want a detailed critique of sexiness in dudes, there are other places on the internet for that.

Part of the local fauna...

[ElNono]

Yeah, and they lost because Denver had a better team. El Nono says Denver won because they had the mystical "it" that you need to win a title. I think the Nuggets were just better last year, and "it" had nothing to do with it.

Where did I say that? Quote please?
Talent wise, they're all fairly even this season. I've been simply saying from the get go that Dallas simply doesn't have the intangibles to compete with the better teams in order to win it all.

[monosylab1k]

Funny, you cast everyone who posts on these boards as fat Mexicans who eat Taco Cabana.

it's satire. everybody knows all the fat Mexicans in san antonio would never eat at Taco Cabana, they'd go to an authentic mexican food place that cooks with lard and shit like that. taco cabana is for the gringos. you of all people should know that, fat beaner.

[monosylab1k]

original mav fan in the house, whats up!!!!

sons tbh remember back when adrienne had that avatar of a set of lips and every dude on ST was trying to have cybersex with her? rofl imho

[JustBlaze]

He lacks a reliable mid-range jumper, but :lol at Kidd not having a killer instinct.
Saying Billups lacks a reliable midrange jumper is like saying Kidd lacks a reliable long range shot. Also, nothing funny about saying Kidd lacks Billups killer instinct on offense. Oh wait, how could I forget, Jason Kidds putting up a whopping 10 ppg this season. Never mind, Chauncey wishes he could put those numbers. The only thing clear JKidd has over Billups is his ability to create for others, other than that pretty much everything else favors Billups.





Melo is a well-rounded and complete player now. I don't know about him making an All-Defense team, but he plays and competes on both ends of the floor now. After being dumb and immature, I think he gets it now. My contention is that they can't survive Melo shooting poorly because that's what he does best. If Billups is shooting poorly, he's still taking care of the ball and running the offense and doing an excellent job of managing the game. There's a baseline that is always going to be there with Billups' floor game. LMAO, Melo does not compete on both ends of the floor day in and out. People still have Playoffs in their minds because ain't no way he's playing that sort of defense this season on a consistent basis. I've continued to see piss poor effort from him every game, sure he'll have spurts where he'll play great defense but those are a few and far.

[monosylab1k]

also who the fuck is oligarchy? How did I miss 1000 posts from dis guy

iirc he posts alot in the mmgay forum which explains why he's so obsessed with how other guys look.

[Findog]

Saying Billups lacks a reliable midrange jumper is like saying Kidd lacks a reliable long range shot.

I said Kidd lacks a reliable mid-range jumper. Do you not know what a pronoun is?

[badfish22]

To get back on topic for just a post:
http://www.sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=2520


As you can see, Dirks mavs are better in close games than any other star this decade, winning at almost a 70% clip. Duncans spurs are right behind.

[Findog]

To get back on topic for just a post:
http://www.sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=2520


As you can see, Dirks mavs are better in close games than any other star this decade, winning at almost a 70% clip. Duncans spurs are right behind.

Don't you get it? The Mavs don't have "it."

[oligarchy]

it's satire. everybody knows all the fat Mexicans in san antonio would never eat at Taco Cabana, they'd go to an authentic mexican food place that cooks with lard and shit like that. taco cabana is for the gringos. you of all people should know that, fat beaner.

Have you ever thought about suicide? I mean, I know your parents thought about an abortion, but the problem was you were 5. I would hope you continue on with their thoughts of you being a waste of space.

Did you mavs fan corner the market on "fat beaner?" In order to be a fat beaner, I'd have to be hispanic or fat. Fail on both accounts. Is "fat beaner" your new "brah" or whatever circle jerk salute you faggots hang onto?

Log into those troll accounts. :wakeup

[Trainwreck2100]

I put oligarchy on ignore about 2 pages back. I suggest you do the same. If I want a detailed critique of sexiness in dudes, there are other places on the internet for that.

ignore is for fags, you know this

[Findog]

ignore is for fags, you know this

No, it's for trolls that don't have an entertaining schtick.

[ElNono]

As you can see, Dirks mavs are better in close games than any other star this decade, winning at almost a 70% clip. Duncans spurs are right behind.

That tells me that when Dirk's Mavs lose in the playoffs (which basically has been always), they haven't been able to make all games close games.

[Trainwreck2100]

No, it's for trolls that don't have an entertaining schtick.

don't try and sugar coat it, i've been through dumbfuck sky is falling blind homer spurs fan, dumbfuck mav invasion, dumbfuck hornets invasion, and even super dumbfuck laker fan invasion. And ain't never put someone on ignore. Cause its for fags

[MookieCrew]

don't try and sugar coat it, i've been through dumbfuck sky is falling blind homer spurs fan, dumbfuck mav invasion, dumbfuck hornets invasion, and even super dumbfuck laker fan invasion. And ain't never put someone on ignore. Cause its for fags

we know this....

















...these are things we know

[mavs>spurs2]

Actually you'd have to be both. Good thing you are.

boom roasted

:lmao

[oligarchy]

Actually you'd have to be both. Good thing you are.

boom roasted

You have awesome jokes. Please tell more.

Boom! Roasted!

[badfish22]

:cry

[Trainwreck2100]

we know this....

















...these are things we know

yes dose are deh dings det we know

[ElNono]

Don't cry... Truth simply hurts...

[Ghazi]

boom roasted

[fevertrees]

Without a doubt the smartest analyst for the NBA.

[dirk4mvp]

dammit I missed the good part of this thread. Oh well, it looks like that guy got his hollywood face shat upon thoroughly.

[Findog]

dammit I missed the good part of this thread. Oh well, it looks like that guy got his hollywood face shat upon thoroughly.

Were you not entertained by the spectacle of oligarchy outing himself over the course of 6 pages? He devoted 6 pages and several hours of his time talking about how another man wasn't sexy enough for him.

[dirk4mvp]

It started reaching pathetic levels around the 2nd page. Around the 4th, it was definitely an America, eatin my lunch type moment.

[Brazil]

wow 16 pages !! wtf ?

[Rogue]

What "it" qualities does Billups have that Kidd doesn't? Spell it for me at the risk of being pedantic.


Billups is about 4yrs younger. Jordan during his professional career held the superbest skills that couldn't be matched by anyone of all time, today he's no more than a retarded fat manager. Kidd used to be damn great and probably was once the greatest PG around the league, but I don't think he's still playing the exact type of game the younger kidd played.






Jason Kidd has everything Billups does in terms of mental makeup, and the Mavs have more accumulated playoff experience than Denver. With their leader, Denver got smacked down hard at home in Game 6 to the champs. A bounce of the ball here or there, and the Mavs are 2006 champs without such a leader.
the 06 Mavs were absolutely the best team that year and was undoubted the team most deserving for championship. Dirk has been the Mavs leader ever since Fin turned traitor and trailed Skunk's stinking asses. Kidd was trawled as a decent addition and all. Kidd still plays fine as a first team regular but he isn't fucntioning beyond the meaning of a pivotal player like JET, and that's well satisfying given his age.

[Ghazi]

People always try to make up imaginary reasons for why a team cannot win a championship... cause they choked 3 years ago, because they lack "it", because Dirk isn't a leader.

It generally shows ignorance of the game... if youre gonna give reasons why the Mavs may not win it all this year you can say they lack enough paint scoring... or they don't have enough players who can create off the dribble when defenses tighten up in the playoffs... or while good defensively they're not GREAT defensively.

But this "choke" and "leadership" bullshit doesn't fly.

[mavsfan1000]

Seriously why are we still talking about a lame analyst with a bullshit formula?

[ezau]

People always try to make up imaginary reasons for why a team cannot win a championship... cause they choked 3 years ago, because they lack "it", because Dirk isn't a leader.

It generally shows ignorance of the game... if youre gonna give reasons why the Mavs may not win it all this year you can say they lack enough paint scoring... or they don't have enough players who can create off the dribble when defenses tighten up in the playoffs... or while good defensively they're not GREAT defensively.

But this "choke" and "leadership" bullshit doesn't fly.

that's called "denial". If your team finished the regular season with an astonishing 67-15 record, yet somehow still managed to lose, you have the word "choke" written all over it. What's else do you want to call it then? you can make up tons of different reasons why a team fails even if they were favorites to win the title. At the end of the day, people won't remember those reasons, they'll just call it "choking" and rightfully so.

[spursncowboys]

Mavs fans: when you are one of the top tier teams, you are gonna have haters. They will manipulate stats better than obama to make their boys seem like they will win. Those guys that make crazy predictions that get rises in people get them more jobs. Mavs have a record of choking. Spurs dealt w/ it every year with robinson.
Stop being those fans that run out on the court when your team beats the #1, in a reg season. Act like you've been there before, and like you belong.

[mogrovejo]

Well, the Bucks won again, this time over the Jazz.

Hollinger's formula isn't his formula, he wasn't the one finding it out or writing about it the first time or whatever. It's just that point differential it's the best (not a perfect) predictor of playoff success in the NBA, doing the math with the historical records. Better than the W/L record. So, you're basically arguing, not with Hollinger, but with historical facts, with basketball games results, which is a little dumb and useless.

[Killakobe81]

Well, the Bucks won again, this time over the Jazz.

Hollinger's formula isn't his formula, he wasn't the one finding it out or writing about it the first time or whatever. It's just that point differential it's the best (not a perfect) predictor of playoff success in the NBA, doing the math with the historical records. Better than the W/L record. So, you're basically arguing, not with Hollinger, but with historical facts, with basketball games results, which is a little dumb and useless.

Didnt the PER genius pick the Lakers over the Celts 2 years ago ..like almost ALL of ESPN?

[HarlemHeat37]

Hollinger picked the Lakers to win, but he had an article stating that his numbers suggest that the Celtics were going to win the series..he even said that he was going against "his" numbers by picking the Lakers IIRC..

His numbers did translate into a Celtics-Lakers Finals though, even in March, even though those 2 were obviously the favorites..the numbers are generally very accurate when it comes to figuring out which teams belong in the elite category..

As I said, the Mavs will move up in his numbers as they continue to pick up wins, especially if they do it in impressive fashion..

[Killakobe81]

Hollinger picked the Lakers to win, but he had an article stating that his numbers suggest that the Celtics were going to win the series..he even said that he was going against "his" numbers by picking the Lakers IIRC..

His numbers did translate into a Celtics-Lakers Finals though, even in March, even though those 2 were obviously the favorites..the numbers are generally very accurate when it comes to figuring out which teams belong in the elite category..

As I said, the Mavs will move up in his numbers as they continue to pick up wins, especially if they do it in impressive fashion..

Nice post. When you are not emotional you usually make good ones though you have Anti-Laker bias. LOL

Back to your post. That WAS MY EXACT point even though he claims to have no emotional ties he does ...read any of his chats . He is biased towards "his numnbers" so he favors the efficient guys ...that is cool. But some guys defy numbers. Farve is that way (dont like him but he has something special), AI in his prime, Magic Kobe they are more than their numbers even Lebron (which PER loves) is MORE than his NUMBERS ...

As far as accuracy all my Laker fan friends were arguing with me Lakers in 5 or 6 I said Lakers in 7
I was one of the few (in my circle) who was scared BEFORE game one.

This is what scared me:
Pierce has traditionally killed us
I used to respect the hell out of KG
Posey always played Kobe tough
The 2 regular season losses
AND the ESPN jinx they treated us like the 16-0 Pats and i hated it ...

I wont lie ...i still thought the Lakers COULD (not would) win because we had Phil and Kobe.
BOTH guys let me down in that series.
And after Game one My heart still believed but my mind said we were done ...

[dude1394]

Hollinger did predict the Mavs' demise before, but he's wrong here..it's not necessarily because of the system though..he's going by the numbers for the entire year, which was obviously a different Mavs team than the post-trade Mavs..it would also be unfair to use the numbers from the post-trade Mavs, because they're still riding high..we have to see how they look once adversity hits them, so we can see how they respond in that kind of situation..

Actually he did not. He predicted that the mavs would be the GSW's and lose to the spurs. Even when he's touting his successes, he's not actually using his own numbers.

[HarlemHeat37]

How is that wrong?..he predicted a dominant team that won an extremely high amount of games wouldn't even make it out of the West..that's pretty ballsy and telling about the stats he uses..

[dude1394]

It's wrong because his predictor stated that he mavs should have beaten the warriors, then beaten the next team and then ultimately lost to the spurs.

[mogrovejo]

If "Hollinger's predictor" or Hollinger as a predictor were right all the time, he'd be ruining Vegas, not writing basketball articles for a living.

[monosylab1k]

How is that wrong?..he predicted a dominant team that won an extremely high amount of games wouldn't even make it out of the West..that's pretty ballsy and telling about the stats he uses..

Actually that's crap too. In 2007 his system didn't even come close to predicting a Golden State upset, and while his rankings had San Antonio ahead of Dallas, his system actually had Dallas as a slight favorite in a series against them when you put home court advantage into the equation.

If he predicted a Dallas upset, it's because he was going against what his formula predicted. Which of course, goes against everything he supposedly stands for.

[mogrovejo]

If he predicted a Dallas upset, it's because he was going against what his formula predicted. Which of course, goes against everything he supposedly stands for.

Why?

[mogrovejo]

Hollinger writes multiple times that "his formula" doesn't factor matchups and that those play an important role in the playoffs.

[icem]

formula or no formula the bucks would win....

[ChrisRichards]

Id take the Mavs. Deeper bench and they have a real Superstar, a great anchor and an all star caliber player second option. Hollinger is normally pretty good but this time he's having a skip bayless moment.

[Shank]

Bucks beat Jazz.

Jazz move up to #2 and the Bucks slide to #12.

Makes perfect sense, as always.

[monosylab1k]

Hollinger writes multiple times that "his formula" doesn't factor matchups and that those play an important role in the playoffs.

He picks and chooses when he wants to apply his formula. This year his defense of the Mavs ranking is "hey, it's not me saying it, it's the numbers" and plenty of times included homecourt advantage into his critique of Dallas (especially in a series against Denver), but back in 2007 he clearly went against what his numbers said, if he did indeed say he favored San Antonio over Dallas.

Either he goes with his formula 100% of the time (because the formula is his gimmick and the only thing that separates him from the hundreds of other jagoff basketball writers in America), or he goes with what he "feels". He can't pick and choose, because in the end that means he has faith in neither his formula nor in his "feel" for the game, making him more worthless than ever.

[dude1394]

Bucks beat Jazz.

Jazz move up to #2 and the Bucks slide to #12.

Makes perfect sense, as always.

That is pretty funny isn't it. Bucks beat the Jazz and drop two spots. Makes perfect sense to me.

[mogrovejo]

He picks and chooses when he wants to apply his formula. This year his defense of the Mavs ranking is "hey, it's not me saying it, it's the numbers" and plenty of times included homecourt advantage into his critique of Dallas (especially in a series against Denver), but back in 2007 he clearly went against what his numbers said, if he did indeed say he favored San Antonio over Dallas.

Either he goes with his formula 100% of the time (because the formula is his gimmick and the only thing that separates him from the hundreds of other jagoff basketball writers in America), or he goes with what he "feels". He can't pick and choose, because in the end that means he has faith in neither his formula nor in his "feel" for the game, making him more worthless than ever.

But you are the one postulating the need for that dilemma. He doesn't.

It's not a matter of faith. Why cant' it be that he uses the formula as a factor contributing to his predictions, the main one, but without overriding value over all the other factors? Sure, he tends to predict with the formula, but sometimes the other factors become more important. I don't see the big deal. I mean, do you do predictions without caring for the teams' records? To you it's indifferent that a team has 60 wins or 10 wins? I don't believe so.

And his "formula" doesn't separate him from anybody. The "formula" doesnt' belong to him. Heck, the guy who "created" the formula (or applied it to the NBA) was no other than Daryl Morey, the current Rockets GM.

[monosylab1k]

But you are the one postulating the need for that dilemma. He doesn't.

It's not a matter of faith. Why cant' it be that he uses the formula as a factor contributing to his predictions, the main one, but without overriding value over all the other factors? Sure, he tends to predict with the formula, but sometimes the other factors become more important. I don't see the big deal. I mean, do you do predictions without caring for the teams' records? To you it's indifferent that a team has 60 wins or 10 wins? I don't believe so.

And his "formula" doesn't separate him from anybody. The "formula" doesnt' belong to him. Heck, the guy who "created" the formula (or applied it to the NBA) was no other than Daryl Morey, the current Rockets GM.

You just aren't getting it. He isn't using his formula as a foundation for his predictions. He's using it as a crutch. He's already got his preconceived notions about the teams he likes and dislikes. When it fits his purpose he will cite the formula and argue to the death over it. When it doesn't fit what he wants to see, then he looks for other statistical "evidence" and conveniently ignores the formula that he previously argued was gospel. There's no balance, it's always one extreme or the other with him.

And name me another sports writer who lives by this formula the way Hollinger does?

[mogrovejo]

You just aren't getting it. He isn't using his formula as a foundation for his predictions. He's using it as a crutch. He's already got his preconceived notions about the teams he likes and dislikes. When it fits his purpose he will cite the formula and argue to the death over it. When it doesn't fit what he wants to see, then he looks for other statistical "evidence" and conveniently ignores the formula that he previously argued was gospel. There's no balance, it's always one extreme or the other with him.

And name me another sports writer who lives by this formula the way Hollinger does?

I rarely read Hollinger and I don't know many other sports writers, let alone statisticians who write. A guy who's easily more fanatic about his formula than Hollinger is David Berri. Former Mavs employee Wayne Winston also comes to mind. I'm sure there are others.

I think you're the one with preconceived notions about Hollinger. To me it's no big deal at all that sometimes he goes with the point differential standings and sometimes don't. It's natural that when he doesnt' see any important factors he simply cites the formula. When he see factors that may override the formula, then it's natural that he stresses those factors because they must be really important to him. Plus, Hollinger isn't a guy who holds grudges, if the Mavericks step up their game he'll give them more credit in the future. I dont' see the drama, anyway, it's just a prediction.

There are 3 things that at some point you can expect from every fan base in the NBA:

- accusing their coach of hating youngsters/rookies and not playing them enough.
- accusing their coach of liking small-ball too much.
- accusing Hollinger of being prejudiced against their team.

[noob cake]

Statjesus strikes

[monosylab1k]

To me it's no big deal at all that sometimes he goes with the point differential standings and sometimes don't. It's natural that when he doesnt' see any important factors he simply cites the formula

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

sorry but imho i'd say either you're a Hollinger groupie or Hollinger himself to have an opinion as obtuse as that.

If you're going to judge teams simply by what you "see" and "feel" about them, then fine.

If you're going to judge them 100% on what the statistics tell you, then fine.

But to pick and choose whether you are going to "go with your gut" or "use the formula" is stupid and dishonest.

Hollinger is Charles Barkley with a built-in excuse for stupidity. Charles goes 100% on what he "feels" and makes no bones about it. If he's proven to be an ass, then so be it. Hollinger also goes 100% on what he "feels" but when people argue with his opinion, he can always refer to his formula and other statistics, as a crutch. He has no true feel for the game, he has no instinct for the game, he's merely a dorky little fanboy with a complicated statistical formula at his disposal, but only when he wants it to be.

[monosylab1k]

There are 3 things that at some point you can expect from every fan base in the NBA:

- accusing Hollinger of being prejudiced against their team.

:lol false. Utah Jazz fans know that Hollinger will always be their team's butt buddy, regardless of what the stats say.

[lefty]

mLYBZj4V-3k

[HarlemHeat37]

Hollinger just making the predictions he's supposed to make..

[JamStone]

Hollinger troll.

Now.

Please.

[mogrovejo]

Ouch.

[DAF86]

For fucks sake, could the stars not be aligned enough for Hollinger?

Maybe his numbers aren't as shitty as most people think.

[Allanon]

krfol Hollinger batting 100 tbh

[alchemist]

:lmao

[badfish22]

Dallas: Rodrigue Beaubois

OK, I've saved the best for last. I was unmoved by the Mavs' raves over Beaubois early in the season, figuring if he couldn't beat out J.J. Barea he wasn't worth spilling much ink over. For four months that proved true, but he has completely blown up in March and spawned "Free Roddy" campaigns across the Metroplex.

Beaubois' exclamation point was his 40-point outburst against Golden State on Saturday; while the list of players who have torched the Warriors isn't exactly a select group, he's been providing spectacular offensive fireworks the entire month. Check out these March numbers: a Kobe-esque 31.1 points per 40 minutes, 58.9 percent shooting and 48.8 percent on 3s. He's been so good, in fact, that he now leads all rookies in PER.

We can't expect him to produce quite this bountifully going forward, but subjectively his strong play isn't difficult to explain. One of the best athletes to come out of Europe in recent years, he's best described as a hybrid of Tony Parker and Leandro Barbosa -- he's French, small and fast like Parker, but like Barbosa he is a good outside shooter with straight-line speed who has played dramatically better as a 2.

Beaubois has been under control, too, with only nine turnovers in 10 games in March, excluding last week's one-minute outings against Boston and Portland.

(Insert sound of needle scratching across record.)

Wait … one-minute outings? This guy? How?

Well, he's not the easiest guy for whom to find good matchups. He's basically a 6-foot-2 shooting guard, at least for the purposes of this season's Mavericks (the long-term plan is for him to play the point), so one can understand the reluctance to pair him in a small backcourt with Barea, or a small and passer-less one with Jason Terry.

Here's the thing: They might as well, because there's really nothing to lose here. Even the most avid Mavs Kool-Aid drinker would have to concede that a Beaubois-less Dallas rotation is winning one playoff round at best.

Beaubois does three things for Dallas: He mends a glaring defensive weakness against quick point guards, he solves the need for another player who can create his own shot and he fixes an athleticism deficit the Mavs still face against several Western powers.

After his breakout by the Bay, the instinct is to replace Barea with Beaubois and leave the rest of the rotation intact. Actually, I'd argue for stronger medicine: Start the guy, keep Terry coming off the bench and play Barea and Terry together against opposing second units.

Shifting the rest of the rotation isn't rocket science. Having Beaubois or Terry check 2s is a worry when they're in the game together, but Caron Butler isn't exactly contending for defensive player of the year either. Despite a superficially impressive scoring average, Butler also has the worst PER of the Mavs' revised eight-man rotation; if you're curious, that's true even of his post-trade numbers. Moving Butler into a 20-minute bench role would free Roddy, and there's really no reason not to try it -- freeing Roddy might be the only thing that can keep Dallas from freeing its golf clubs this spring.
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Rookies




Talking nice about a Mav player? #1 rookie in PER? Explain yourself

[monosylab1k]

:lol wow, even in compliments he finds a way to throw a few backhands. Bench Butler and reduce his role to 20 minutes a night? Insanity.

Hollinger's always been a big Barea homer, which explains why he doesn't think Barea should lose minutes. I'm not sure how to explain why he wants Terry to get big minutes. If you're giving Roddy minutes, they have to eat into Barea and Jet's playing time. Cutting Butler's minutes is just retarded.

Either way, this proves that there's no possible excuse for Carlisle to keep Roddy chained to the bench any longer.

[badfish22]

:lol wow, even in compliments he finds a way to throw a few backhands. Bench Butler and reduce his role to 20 minutes a night? Insanity.

Hollinger's always been a big Barea homer, which explains why he doesn't think Barea should lose minutes. I'm not sure how to explain why he wants Terry to get big minutes. If you're giving Roddy minutes, they have to eat into Barea and Jet's playing time. Cutting Butler's minutes is just retarded.

Either way, this proves that there's no possible excuse for Carlisle to keep Roddy chained to the bench any longer.

+1 to all that. Butler was the man against Boston.

Another backhand
Even the most avid Mavs Kool-Aid drinker would have to concede that a Beaubois-less Dallas rotation is winning one playoff round at best. ]

so I guess Barkley, Steve Smith and a bunch of the ESPN crew are Mav kool-aid drinkers.

[mavsfan1000]

:lol wow, even in compliments he finds a way to throw a few backhands. Bench Butler and reduce his role to 20 minutes a night? Insanity.

Hollinger's always been a big Barea homer, which explains why he doesn't think Barea should lose minutes. I'm not sure how to explain why he wants Terry to get big minutes. If you're giving Roddy minutes, they have to eat into Barea and Jet's playing time. Cutting Butler's minutes is just retarded.

Either way, this proves that there's no possible excuse for Carlisle to keep Roddy chained to the bench any longer.
Reducing him to only 20 minutes is extreme but I do like the idea of having a scorer like Butler come off the bench for more offense. This is what I would like.
PG Kidd 36 minutes/Terry 12 minutes
SG Beaubois 30 minutes/Terry 18 minutes
SF Marion 20 minutes/Butler 28 minutes
PF Nowitzki 38 minutes (or some of those minutes at C)/Marion 10 minutes
C Haywood 32 minutes/Dampier, Najera, and Dirk based on matchups for 16 minutes.

[stretch]

Terry needs less minutes. Roddy needs more minutes. Butler needs more plays ran for him, as opposed to Kidd or someone passing to him with a few seconds on the shot clock for him to have to force a shot. Let him run some iso's and get some picks. The guy is much more effective when he has either some space (especially on the baseline) or a pick to operate with.

[stretch]

Haywood and Dampier should play for all 48 minutes, and the only time Najera should be over them at C is if the opponent goes small, and they can get away with it, or if they just need an energy spark. Otherwise his minutes should be all at backup PF.

[sribb43]

Play Barea and Terry together??? Doesnt this fuckin' genius realize that playing those 2 together is the absolute worst thing for this team. He apparently rarely watches mavs games and has his ass too far up his formulas and calculations