More Manu: "I am looking forward to playing (WC)"

[Mel_13]

Manu covers all his bases here, but makes one thing clear. If the Spurs sign him to an extension, it will come without any public pronouncement or private assurance as to his decision on playing in Turkey.

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/38896/arti.html

ARG - Manu hopeful of playing in Turkey

SAN ANTONIO (2010 FIBA World Championship) - Argentina's basketball icon Manu Ginobili is back to full fitness and playing a pivotal role for the play-off chasing San Antonio Spurs.

Injuries have hindered him in international competition in recent years but his performances of late with the Spurs have fuelled hopes that he will play for his country at the 2010 FIBA World Championship in Turkey.

"The tournament in Turkey is coming soon and as it gets closer, I am more and more looking forward to playing it," Ginobili said.

"It would be a strange feeling not to be part of the World Championship, it's inevitable."

Ginobili was outstanding at the 2002 FIBA World Championship in Indianapolis when Argentina won a silver medal, and he was terrific at the 2006 event in Japan when Argentina reached the Semi-Finals before a last-second defeat to eventual champions Spain.

The veteran guard's wife, however, is going to be giving birth to twins.

"As I said many times, there are things that come into play," Ginobili said in the Argentinian media.

"First and foremost, my twins, who will be a few months old by then and it will not be easy to leave them alone with their mother."

Ginobili is also uncertain about his NBA future as he will be out of contract at the end of the season.

"Secondly, I don't have a team just yet and I don't know what I will do," Ginobili said.

"Also my fitness condition also counts. In previous tournaments, this affected me.

"This is a complicated decision and whatever I decide, it will be a difficult choice."

Ginobili is so important to Argentina that coach Sergio Hernandez might consider allowing him to miss the bulk of the team's preparations.

"I wouldn't want to go to a World Championship without a warm-up tour, even if Sergio Hernandez would allow me to do so," Ginobili said.

"That would be a lack of respect and besides, I need time to re-adapt to FIBA rules and to my national teammates so it's not that easy."

Argentina will play in the Preliminary Round in Group A against Serbia, Australia, Germany, Jordan and Angola.

[baseline bum]

:pctoss

[urunobili]

CROFL Fiba just translating something we already covered on here on the Ole Article thread :wakeup

This is not new... just a translation of the Ole Article / Interview...

[urunobili]

this article is just a translation and quotes of this thread already treated.... [/merge] thread:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148601

[sonic21]

i hope tony and manu will meet in the finals.

:stirpot:

[nkdlunch]

well manu likes to win trophies. Since Spurs have no chance to even make WCF, he will try his luck on WC. At least he could get 2nd or 3rd place there. can't blame him.

[EricB]

Adios Manu.

[in2deep]

bye Manu. Onto winning championships with the lakers :( :(

[DPG21920]

Does the ARG national team pay well?

[in2deep]

Does the ARG national team pay well?

If they bring their A game + Manu they could reach the Semis I guess

[DPG21920]

If they bring their A game + Manu they could reach the Semis I guess

I said pay well, not play :lol

[in2deep]

Manu has plenty money. He probably prefers to win for his country?

[MarCowMar]

I wonder if Manu would consider ending his NBA career and playing overseas? If they can offer a lighter schedule it would extend his career and allow him to play more for his country. He could probably make just as much money as he does in the NBA.

[in2deep]

I wonder if Manu would consider ending his NBA career and playing overseas? If they can offer a lighter schedule it would extend his career and allow him to play more for his country. He could probably make just as much money as he does in the NBA.

yup. I can see this happening. I dont' think Manu would mind another Euro Championship. He could probably go to a stacked team and get $$$$$ at the same time.

[DPG21920]

These guys never have enough money. Manu probably wants to stay in the best league in the world. Not to mention it is hard to uproot your family with new babies.

[Deimosfobos]

Not sure Manu would like to leave the NBA, he likes to play in best league in the world. And I don't think Manu is willing to leave San Antonio as easy as many here suppose.

[in2deep]

These guys never have enough money.

Way to generalize. This is not true at all for everyone.


Manu probably wants to stay in the best league in the world. Not to mention it is hard to uproot your family with new babies.

Some ppl might think it's better to bring up kids in Europe ala Johnny Depp? He's proven what he had to prove in the best league in the world. I think he would pick winning Euro championships over losing in NBA.

[Brazil]

lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I wonder if Manu would consider ending his NBA career and playing overseas? If they can offer a lighter schedule it would extend his career and allow him to play more for his country. He could probably make just as much money as he does in the NBA.

Why the hell would he do that? No offense to all the people that think basketball overseas is on the same page as the NBA (its not). Manu needs to get his head out of his ass and focus on solidifying his NBA legacy. He's done enough for Argentina's national team, anyone who doesn't think so is just a fucking homer.

In the end it boils down to who is paying his checks. The Spurs have more riding on his health than anyone on the planet, homer fans included. Manu owes the Spurs some peace of mind. That's the way I see it. If he insists on playing, then the Spurs should start thinking about how to replace him, and quickly. Shit! I thought he was fucking smarter than this.

[sonic21]

^ but the WC is the only title he hasn't won

[urunobili]

CROFL all the drama by all posters when we have discussed this shit already in the other thread.. now FIBA publishes it and TPark goes "Bye BYe Manu"? LMAO :lmao

[in2deep]

^ but the WC is the only title he hasn't won

he still has no chance of winning WC unless he becomes American citizen and plays with Team USA

[sonic21]

he still has no chance of winning WC unless he becomes American citizen and plays with Team USA

i don't want him to play but i understand why he'd want to.

[in2deep]

i don't want him to play but i understand why he'd want to.

me too :tu

[DPG21920]

Way to generalize. This is not true at all for everyone.



Some ppl might think it's better to bring up kids in Europe ala Johnny Depp? He's proven what he had to prove in the best league in the world. I think he would pick winning Euro championships over losing in NBA.

Ya, that's why Manu has been talking about his contract situation all year.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

i don't want him to play but i understand why he'd want to.

Hey, he can do as he pleases. Seems to me though, that he's the one fucking up his relationship with the Spurs. Can you seriously blame them for not wanting to extend his contract when he's clearly got his priorities all fucked up. He's not 25 anymore, he can't play all year long. He should get the message already. Specially now that he's been through this much shit. Christ, he JUST regaining his health after two seasons of being hobbled and he thinks noone's going to mind him playing for his NT again? I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[in2deep]

Ya, that's why Manu has been talking about his contract situation all year.

LOL He's been responding to reporter's questions and interviews. I doubt he is the one who brought up his contract to the media.

"hey guys, my contract is coming up. Why don't you ask me about it?"

mmmm no

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

:lmao:flipoff

[urunobili]

It'll be more surprising to me if he doesn't play in Turkey than if he does...

[sonic21]

Hey, he can do as he pleases. Seems to me though, that he's the one fucking up his relationship with the Spurs. Can you seriously blame them for not wanting to extend his contract when he's clearly got his priorities all fucked up. He's not 25 anymore, he can't play all year long. He should get the message already. Specially now that he's been through this much shit. Christ, he JUST regaining his health after two seasons of being hobbled and he thinks noone's going to mind him playing for his NT again? I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

i don't think he cares about his relationship with the spurs anymore. He was hurt the spurs didn't extend him a few weeks ago. And maybe he doesnt think the spurs will be contender next year.

Lack of respect for the spurs for sure, but he feels like the spurs didn't respect him before.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

i don't think he cares about his relationship with the spurs anymore. He was hurt the spurs didn't extend him a few weeks ago. And maybe he doesnt think the spurs will be contender next year.

Lack of respect for the spurs for sure, but he feels like the spurs didn't respect him before.

Bullshit. I honestly think he sincerely would like to play for his national team and help the Spurs be successful. Problem is he can't have the cake and eat it too. He's being naive, and his naiveté is threatening to fuck with his team's plans for the future.

That being said, this was only an interview. I'll hold judgement until he actually plays in Turkey. My money is on him not playing. He's smarter than that. I think this is just pandering to his home fans. Here's to hoping that's all it is.

[clambake]

he's just positioning himself to get a fatter contract.

he'll agree not to play in the summer for extra $green$.

[sonic21]

Bullshit. I honestly think he sincerely would like to play for his national team and help the Spurs be successful. Problem is he can't have the cake and eat it too. He's being naive, and his naiveté is threatening to fuck with his team's plans for the future.

That being said, this was only an interview. I'll hold judgement until he actually plays in Turkey. My money is on him not playing. He's smarter than that. I think this is just pandering to his home fans. Here's to hoping that's all it is.


do argie media and fans put pressure on him to play?

[diego]

basketball player wants to play basketball, risk of injury possible, stop the presses! :lol

and its not about manu giving more to the arg. national team. Its just about playing basketball with his friends one last time. nobody wants their last game with their favorite jersey to be 10 minutes and an injury.

but i suppose its much better when the injury is from NBA basketball, like tony's now. its such a relief that happened for the team that pays his salary, this way when the team goes out shorthanded we have the comfort of knowing it happened on company time, not playing for some silly international tournament.

[DPG21920]

LOL He's been responding to reporter's questions and interviews. I doubt he is the one who brought up his contract to the media.

"hey guys, my contract is coming up. Why don't you ask me about it?"

mmmm no

So he is going to play for the minimum then? He could have easily said his contract is not something he would discuss to reporters.

[DAF86]

This article sounds a lot like this interview

http://www.lanueva.com/hoy/nota/92128a44a0/1/55061.html

And if the article is indeed the translation of this interview, I want to inform you that the translation sucks. "I am looking forward to playing (WC)" sounds like he already made his mind or that he has big chances of playing the tournament, and that isn't correct.

Manu said: “a medida que se acerca la fecha del Mundial me dan más ganas de jugar. Pero lo dije un millón de veces: entran muchas cosas en juego. Lo principal son mis hijos que nacerán a mediados de mayo. No es fácil dejarlos solos. Además, no tengo equipo para la próxima temporada, mi físico no es el de antes... Es una decisión complicada porque por otro lado están las ganas de estar ahí”.

Which means that he wants to play the tournament but he has a lot of things to consider other than his desire to play the WC (for. example: the babies, the contract, etc.) basically what he has been saying for a while now. So stop freaking out, this is old news.

[DPG21920]

It's not the fact it is old news. It has to do with this looming and important decisionand how it effects the Spurs moving forward. Just bc the article is re-hashed does not mean it is not a reminder of the existing problem.

[Mel_13]

CROFL Fiba just translating something we already covered on here on the Ole Article thread :wakeup

This is not new... just a translation of the Ole Article / Interview...


this article is just a translation and quotes of this thread already treated.... [/merge] thread:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148601


CROFL?????

First off, the thread you link to was not the thread with the Ole article.

Second, the thread with Ole article does not include the quotes in this article.

Third, the Ole article itself does not include the quotes in this article.

Now, the webpage with the Ole article also includes a video. Perhaps Manu said these things in the video, but since they were not included in either the article or in any of the posts in the thread, the article in the OP presents quotes from Manu that I cannot find elsewhere on SpursTalk.

CROFL indeed.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

basketball player wants to play basketball, risk of injury possible, stop the presses! :lol

and its not about manu giving more to the arg. national team. Its just about playing basketball with his friends one last time. nobody wants their last game with their favorite jersey to be 10 minutes and an injury.

but i suppose its much better when the injury is from NBA basketball, like tony's now. its such a relief that happened for the team that pays his salary, this way when the team goes out shorthanded we have the comfort of knowing it happened on company time, not playing for some silly international tournament.

Again with the bullshit. Playing basketball with his friends one last time comes a distant second to his responsabilities towards the team paying his fucking check.

Plus, I know you were trying to be facetious about it, but nobody here is implying him getting injured is better one way or the other. He should be doing everything possible to minimize the risk though. That means prioritizing. The Spurs should be his number one.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

This article sounds a lot like this interview

http://www.lanueva.com/hoy/nota/92128a44a0/1/55061.html

And if the article is indeed the translation of this interview, I want to inform you that the translation sucks. "I am looking forward to playing (WC)" sounds like he already made his mind or that he has big chances of playing the tournament, and that isn't correct.

Manu said: “a medida que se acerca la fecha del Mundial me dan más ganas de jugar. Pero lo dije un millón de veces: entran muchas cosas en juego. Lo principal son mis hijos que nacerán a mediados de mayo. No es fácil dejarlos solos. Además, no tengo equipo para la próxima temporada, mi físico no es el de antes... Es una decisión complicada porque por otro lado están las ganas de estar ahí”.

Which means that he wants to play the tournament but he has a lot of things to consider other than his desire to play the WC (for. example: the babies, the contract, etc.) basically what he has been saying for a while now. So stop freaking out, this is old news.

ok, now this is different. Completely. Sounds like he is weighting his options rather than making up his mind.

[SenorSpur]

It'll be more surprising to me if he doesn't play in Turkey than if he does...

Exactly.

All of this is why I believe that Manu will be playing elsewhere next season. Some team with cap space, and a willingness to acquiesce to Manu offseason desires, will likely offer him a contract that's out of the Spurs range.

[Mel_13]

basketball player wants to play basketball, risk of injury possible, stop the presses! :lol

and its not about manu giving more to the arg. national team. Its just about playing basketball with his friends one last time. nobody wants their last game with their favorite jersey to be 10 minutes and an injury.

but i suppose its much better when the injury is from NBA basketball, like tony's now. its such a relief that happened for the team that pays his salary, this way when the team goes out shorthanded we have the comfort of knowing it happened on company time, not playing for some silly international tournament.

You've made this sort of case before, but you're missing the point.

Of course, the source of a players' unavailability is irrelevant to the effect on the team, but that's not the point.

Any team contemplating the offer of millions of dollars in guaranteed money over the course of a multiyear contract must balance the risks of such guarantees against the potential benefits of acquiring or retaining the services of the player.

The benefits to retaining Manu are obvious. Certain risks are also obvious and unavoidable. He will soon be 33 years old and his skills could deteriorate rapidly. He could also get injured while training or while playing at any point during his contract. These risks are unavoidable. If the Spurs sign Manu they will assume those risks.

Playing for the NT adds additional risk. The Spurs may decide that the risk of injury while playing for the NT, in addition to the unavoidable risks in signing Manu to a new deal, changes the risk/benefit equation to the point that they will not offer him a new deal. Some other team may be willing to assume that additional risk and we could, sadly, see Manu in a different NBA uniform next season.

Manu has every right to play for Argentina this summer. NBA teams also have every right to factor that decision into the dollars/years they are willing to offer in a guaranteed deal. Clearly, had Manu decided to forgo playing in the 2008 Olympics, he would already be playing under an extension through at least 2012.

[urunobili]

working on Manu's latest self written article translation for y'all... :)

[urunobili]

CROFL?????

First off, the thread you link to was not the thread with the Ole article.

Second, the thread with Ole article does not include the quotes in this article.

Third, the Ole article itself does not include the quotes in this article.

Now, the webpage with the Ole article also includes a video. Perhaps Manu said these things in the video, but since they were not included in either the article or in any of the posts in the thread, the article in the OP presents quotes from Manu that I cannot find elsewhere on SpursTalk.

CROFL indeed.

Stop being a drama queen. FIBA didn't speak to Manu they translated the Ole interview.

[Mel_13]

Stop being a drama queen. FIBA didn't speak to Manu they translated the Ole interview.

Ironic

[Cherry]

i don't want him to play but i understand why he'd want to.

Me too. He loves to play.

[Cherry]

do argie media and fans put pressure on him to play?

No.

He's Manu Ginobili

[Libri]

Exactly.

All of this is why I believe that Manu will be playing elsewhere next season. Some team with cap space, and a willingness to acquiesce to Manu offseason desires, will likely offer him a contract that's out of the Spurs range.

Like a four year contract? I see the Spurs offering, at most, a two year contract.

[diego]

Again with the bullshit. Playing basketball with his friends one last time comes a distant second to his responsabilities towards the team paying his fucking check.

Plus, I know you were trying to be facetious about it, but nobody here is implying him getting injured is better one way or the other. He should be doing everything possible to minimize the risk though. That means prioritizing. The Spurs should be his number one.

as of right now, the spurs arent paying his fucking check during the WC. and he has shown that he can play basketball with his friends and perform for the team paying his fucking check. or did manu not play well in 05 after the olympics, or 07 after the wc?

of course injuries suck no matter what, some people on this board need someone to blame and forget that though.

my point over all these years arguing this same issue time and again (and not just about manu, all international players including americans)-
if a player is thinking about minimizing the risk to his body while he is playing, he is not playing to the best of his ability. The players that play to the best of their ability are the ones that get chosen to represent their NT. They are also the most coveted by pro teams. Its not a coincidence. If manu thought like that (better minimize risks!), he wouldnt dive for loose balls, wouldnt drive into traffic, wouldnt step up for a charge, etc. If you dont have the courage to fight for a win, you'll have far less risk of injury, but also, no glory and no value to a competitive team.

manu isnt planning to go skydiving or snowboarding or basejumping. He is planning to play basketball, you know, the same thing he's been doing for the past 25+ years. I will respect his decision if he chooses not to play the WC, but will be disappointed if he is unable to do it because of some contract bull shit. he has every right to play. And if he doesnt have faith in his body, he should just retire, because he loses most his value as a player if he is minimizing his risks out there, be it for the NT, the spurs or estudiantes de bahia blanca.

BTW, pop's managing of minutes has really worked out well for the spurs. it has kept everyone healthy and more importantly, the team's rotation and roles are in perfect synch.

sometimes, its smart to be prudent. other times, low risk means low reward. This is basketball, not chess.

[urunobili]

working on Manu's latest self written article translation for y'all... :)

Sorry guys... Work got complicated though I have asked ElNono to do it for us all :) :flag:

[baseline bum]

^^ Manu's injury in the 02 WC practically ruined his 03 season.

[urunobili]

a tip for y'all... Manu is more interested in playing the London Olympics Qualifying tournament at home and the Olympics themselves than the WC :stirpot:

This sounds to me.. that whoever is going to sign Ginobili.. will have to know he plays for his team in the summer just like Nocioni, Scola, Delfino and ALL the fucking golden generation players (but Hermann unless he changes his mind)....

[baseline bum]

Then offer him a two year deal with the second unguaranteed.

[diego]

Playing for the NT adds additional risk. The Spurs may decide that the risk of injury while playing for the NT, in addition to the unavoidable risks in signing Manu to a new deal, changes the risk/benefit equation to the point that they will not offer him a new deal. Some other team may be willing to assume that additional risk and we could, sadly, see Manu in a different NBA uniform next season.

Manu has every right to play for Argentina this summer. NBA teams also have every right to factor that decision into the dollars/years they are willing to offer in a guaranteed deal. Clearly, had Manu decided to forgo playing in the 2008 Olympics, he would already be playing under an extension through at least 2012.

I realize that and agree. My main point though, as I made in my other post, is that risks are part of the game, and that players that take risks are more valuable than those that dont.

I wouldnt fault the spurs for not offering manu a huge contract- its understandable for them to have reservations (especially considering the state of the rest of the team). And maybe some players plot out their careers thinking prudently and consciously about their health. But IMO the difference makers that play balls to the wall dont think prudently and consciously about their health, because they think they can do anything. And that is why most NT players (from which ever country or sport you can think of) have leverage over their pro teams- they are the best, and if one club won't allow them to play for their NT, another will.

[Mel_13]

Like a four year contract? I see the Spurs offering, at most, a two year contract.

There is a very complicated part of the CBA called the Over-36 rule. I don't completely understand it and I definitely can't explain it. Bottom line is that it makes it very unlikely that Manu will get offers greater than 3 years in length.

A full MLE deal for 3 years will be about 19M and it's hard to imagine a team with cap space offering more than 10M per year. So on a three year deal, the range of probable deals is between 19M and 30M.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

as of right now, the spurs arent paying his fucking check during the WC. and he has shown that he can play basketball with his friends and perform for the team paying his fucking check. or did manu not play well in 05 after the olympics, or 07 after the wc?

of course injuries suck no matter what, some people on this board need someone to blame and forget that though.

my point over all these years arguing this same issue time and again (and not just about manu, all international players including americans)-
if a player is thinking about minimizing the risk to his body while he is playing, he is not playing to the best of his ability. The players that play to the best of their ability are the ones that get chosen to represent their NT. They are also the most coveted by pro teams. Its not a coincidence. If manu thought like that (better minimize risks!), he wouldnt dive for loose balls, wouldnt drive into traffic, wouldnt step up for a charge, etc. If you dont have the courage to fight for a win, you'll have far less risk of injury, but also, no glory and no value to a competitive team.

manu isnt planning to go skydiving or snowboarding or basejumping. He is planning to play basketball, you know, the same thing he's been doing for the past 25+ years. I will respect his decision if he chooses not to play the WC, but will be disappointed if he is unable to do it because of some contract bull shit. he has every right to play. And if he doesnt have faith in his body, he should just retire, because he loses most his value as a player if he is minimizing his risks out there, be it for the NT, the spurs or estudiantes de bahia blanca.

BTW, pop's managing of minutes has really worked out well for the spurs. it has kept everyone healthy and more importantly, the team's rotation and roles are in perfect synch.

sometimes, its smart to be prudent. other times, low risk means low reward. This is basketball, not chess.

Yeah, you've been arguing the same issue for years now, and last time he played for the NT he got injured and the Spurs have been suffering the consequenses ever since... but hey, shit happens.

This isn't a low risk = low reward scenario. This is a high risk = no reward scenario for the Spurs.

This isnt fairytale land. Aging players don't get to over exert themselves without consequence. You talk as if Manu doesn't have a history of untimely injuries. He doesn't have a right to fuck around with the Spurs investment in him.

P.S. That contract bullshit is what his priority should be if he actually wants it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I realize that and agree. My main point though, as I made in my other post, is that risks are part of the game, and that players that take risks are more valuable than those that dont.

yeah, if the risk taking is done on behalf of the team that is paying your bills. Why is that so difficult to understand? You're arguing this whole thing from the player's perspective, but what about the interests of the team?


I wouldnt fault the spurs for not offering manu a huge contract- its understandable for them to have reservations (especially considering the state of the rest of the team). And maybe some players plot out their careers thinking prudently and consciously about their health. But IMO the difference makers that play balls to the wall dont think prudently and consciously about their health, because they think they can do anything. And that is why most NT players (from which ever country or sport you can think of) have leverage over their pro teams- they are the best, and if one club won't allow them to play for their NT, another will.

In other words, what are we arguing here? You've practically said it yourself here. Manu is in a position to tell the Spurs they can go screw themselves, he's going to play. The Spurs have every right to respond by not offering Manu an extension. You're not breaking any news here. That still doesn't take away from the fact Manu's the one fucking with his relationship with the Spurs. I don't think its much to ask for some loyalty towards the team that is your livelyhood.

[Libri]

There is a very complicated part of the CBA called the Over-36 rule. I don't completely understand it and I definitely can't explain it. Bottom line is that it makes it very unlikely that Manu will get offers greater than 3 years in length.

A full MLE deal for 3 years will be about 19M and it's hard to imagine a team with cap space offering more than 10M per year. So on a three year deal, the range of probable deals is between 19M and 30M.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Mel_13]

I realize that and agree. My main point though, as I made in my other post, is that risks are part of the game, and that players that take risks are more valuable than those that dont.

I wouldnt fault the spurs for not offering manu a huge contract- its understandable for them to have reservations (especially considering the state of the rest of the team). And maybe some players plot out their careers thinking prudently and consciously about their health. But IMO the difference makers that play balls to the wall dont think prudently and consciously about their health, because they think they can do anything. And that is why most NT players (from which ever country or sport you can think of) have leverage over their pro teams- they are the best, and if one club won't allow them to play for their NT, another will.

For the most part, I agree. If Manu had a risk averse personality, he would not have become the very special player he is. Further, his experiences with the NT have made him a better NBA player. That seems self-evident to me.

Going forward, however, a Manu decision to end his NT career should not make the remainder of his NBA career any less noteworthy than it would be if he played this summer. One thing that also seems self evident to me, if Manu told the Spurs that his NT days were over a deal would be much easier to accomplish.

Both sides in this situation have legitimate interests to consider. Unfortunately, the legitimate interests of the two sides may result in separation.

[Phenomanul]

^^ Manu's injury in the 02 WC practically ruined his 03 season.

A season that still saw him hoisting the Larry O'Brien...

Wait... didn't the Spurs also win a title in 2005 after he played in the Olympics..??? And again in 2007 after Ginobili played in the 2006 WC...

One could even say that having led Argentina to a Gold Medal finish in 2004 is what propelled Ginobili to become an NBA star... from that point forward he was no longer a role player... he no longer played as one. That season saw the emergence of 4th quarter Ginobili and Pop calling the now famous top of the key screen for him to score, assist or get to the line... That decision was justified because the whole basketball world realized that Ginobili was special. No gold medal... I believe we wouldn't have seen this dynamic unfold.

People here like to suggest that playing in Beijing was the primary cause of his last injury... he injured himself while playing with the Spurs (not that I agree with his failure to give his injury adequate rest over the summer)...

But he's healthy now... he's got more things to consider than just health in his decision... but he is older, I'm sure he knows this factors in...

Many are acting as if playing FIBA ball is tantamount to the Spurs losing a season... If anything Beijing was the exception, not the rule... The Spurs have won 3 championships after 3 summers in which Ginobili played FIBA ball...

That said, I prefer he not play.... but I wouldn't judge him or hold it against him if he did....

[MaNuMaNiAc]

A season that still saw him hoisting the Larry O'Brien...

Wait... didn't the Spurs also win a title in 2005 after he played in the Olympics..??? And again in 2007 after Ginobili played in the 2006 WC...

People here like to suggest that playing in Beijing was the primary cause of his last injury... he injured himself while playing with the Spurs (not that I agree with his failure to give his injury adequate rest over the summer)...

But he's healthy now... he's got more things to consider than just health in his decision... and he's older...

Many are acting as if playing FIBA ball is tantamount to the Spurs losing a season... If anything Beijing was the exception, not the rule... The Spurs have won 3 championships after 3 summers in which Ginobili played FIBA ball...

That said, I prefer he not play.... but I wouldn't judge him or hold it against him if he did....

Why do you prefer he not play?

[rascal]

Yeah, you've been arguing the same issue for years now, and last time he played for the NT he got injured and the Spurs have been suffering the consequenses ever since... but hey, shit happens.

This isn't a low risk = low reward scenario. This is a high risk = no reward scenario for the Spurs.

This isnt fairytale land. Aging players don't get to over exert themselves without consequence. You talk as if Manu doesn't have a history of untimely injuries. He doesn't have a right to fuck around with the Spurs investment in him.

P.S. That contract bullshit is what his priority should be if he actually wants it.

Manu is smart and will not play this summer. He will use the excuse of the newborns but his contract is the main reason. The spurs will sign him.

[angel_luv]

Manu is very ambitious.

Same with Tony, I fully understand a player wanting to represent their country.

I am sure this is not a decision Manu will make lightly. As he said, he has a lot to consider.

All the best to him. :)

If he does play, I will definitely root for him.

[Phenomanul]

Why do you prefer he not play?

Only because he's older (and every athlete regardless of nationality or sport is more susceptible to injury when they're older...) my view however is nowhere near as extreme or inflexible as those thrown around here...

[carina_gino20]

I understand that Manu's a competitor and he loves the game so much and also loves his country. But I also understand that he'll be 33 this year.

Just give it up, Manu. Let it go.

[baseline bum]

A season that still saw him hoisting the Larry O'Brien...


Good argument, especially neglecting the part about him being ineffective most of the season and not really finding a big role on the team because of that. I never expected a correlation=causation argument from you.



Wait... didn't the Spurs also win a title in 2005 after he played in the Olympics..??? And again in 2007 after Ginobili played in the 2006 WC...


And they got bounced in the first round in 2009 after a stress fracture ended his season. A stress fracture that was likely a result of not having any time off.



One could even say that having led Argentina to a Gold Medal finish in 2004 is what propelled Ginobili to become an NBA star... from that point forward he was no longer a role player... he no longer played as one. That season saw the emergence of 4th quarter Ginobili and Pop calling the now famous top of the key screen for him to score, assist or get to the line... That decision was justified because the whole basketball world realized that Ginobili was special. No gold medal... I believe we wouldn't have seen this dynamic unfold.


No, Ginobili being healthy in 2003-04 is what made him a star. Ginobili carrying the Spurs in the double OT game against LA and their 4 Hall of Famers was the birth of Ginobili the superstar.

[diego]

agree to disagree. My point is that if the spurs dont want manu taking risks, they shouldnt hire him to play basketball. If they want him to stand at the 3 point line and play matador defense so that he doesnt put himself at risk (after all, he is old and breaking down), then they might as well have kept finley. when manu plays basketball the way he plays it, he risks his health (and pop's), that isnt going to change.

speaking of fairytale land, FYI, the spurs investment in him, like any other business investment, is not guaranteed. they can get insurance for it, but there is no guarantee they wont lose their investment regardless of whether manu plays for the NT or not, regardless of whether he plays all out or not. manu has had untimely injuries, I agree. but he hasnt spent his entire career in street clothes. Quite the contrary actually, despite playing in the NT for most of his career. agree to disagree...

[barbacoataco]

The fact that the Spurs won championships three times after Manu competed in international play is a factor. It could be that the added benefit of playing in WC in terms of energy, momentum, confidence etc. actually outweights the risk of potential injury. The fact is that injuries can happen anytime and sometimes players get injured in the offseason anyway.

On the other side I do believe the human body needs a "rest" period and EVERY professional sport that I know of includes an off season. If international players are going to play year round that is a problem.

[baseline bum]

The fact that the Spurs won championships three times after Manu competed in international play is a factor. It could be that the added benefit of playing in WC in terms of energy, momentum, confidence etc. actually outweights the risk of potential injury. The fact is that injuries can happen anytime and sometimes players get injured in the offseason anyway.


How about the fact that Manu had two injury plagued and disappointing seasons after getting injured in international play?

[MB20]

Manu is a grown up man.
Whatever he decides, I´ll still support him.
No matter if he signs with the Spurs, other NBA team, Europe or the ARG league.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Manu is a grown up man.
Whatever he decides, I´ll still support him.
No matter if he signs with the Spurs, other NBA team, Europe or the ARG league.

I don't think I can say the same

[urunobili]

I don't think I can say the same

Don't let the door hit you as you leave... :wakeup

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Don't let the door hit you as you leave... :wakeup

as I leave? :lol where am I leaving to?

[urunobili]

as I leave? :lol where am I leaving to?

out of the CoM :downspin:

[in2deep]

Manu can do whatever he wants. It's his body.

[OldSilentHill]

Honestly I dont understand why people think Manu´s has considerably more chances of getting injured if he plays that 2 weeks.

He could get injured in the next 2 weeks, or in a month.... (hopes not :( )

Yes, I understand that is summer and the boddy needs de rest and whatever. But if Spurs dont reach the US Finals, he can have the same...or more rest.

US Championship and World Cup championship are still sports with almost identical rules.

Everybody is exagerating because of what happen last time...:rolleyes

PS: Manu can win the NBA ring again and the WC champ!! (only important title he has not yet won). He prefers to win the WC with his country mates than another ring. I think that he will use the money as a tool to play in the summer and stay as a Spur (probably he will agree a pay cut). This is what I think it will happen. He always had a "bad salary" (if we think about what he brings on the court) so...another spot in the tiger won´t hurt him.

There are so many talking about money. But Manu thinks a lot on intangibles (WC maybe?). Manu feels the intangibles. He creates them. Like in the court. That´s why he is so special :toast.




Maybe we are all here spending time on this and it all depends on his wife´s decision :rollin

[ElNono]

I just translated an article written by Manu for his site. Will probably be up shortly in the english section. He obviously wants to go to Turkey, but he's still undecided, and he won't be making the decision anytime soon.

[ElNono]

For the most part, I agree. If Manu had a risk averse personality, he would not have become the very special player he is. Further, his experiences with the NT have made him a better NBA player. That seems self-evident to me.

Going forward, however, a Manu decision to end his NT career should not make the remainder of his NBA career any less noteworthy than it would be if he played this summer. One thing that also seems self evident to me, if Manu told the Spurs that his NT days were over a deal would be much easier to accomplish.

Both sides in this situation have legitimate interests to consider. Unfortunately, the legitimate interests of the two sides may result in separation.

He also would like to play in London in 2012... just saying...

[wildbill2u]

Manu covers all his bases here, but makes one thing clear. If the Spurs sign him to an extension, it will come without any public pronouncement or private assurance as to his decision on playing in Turkey.

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/38896/arti.html

ARG - Manu hopeful of playing in Turkey

SAN ANTONIO (2010 FIBA World Championship) - Argentina's basketball icon Manu Ginobili is back to full fitness and playing a pivotal role for the play-off chasing San Antonio Spurs.

Injuries have hindered him in international competition in recent years but his performances of late with the Spurs have fuelled hopes that he will play for his country at the 2010 FIBA World Championship in Turkey.

"The tournament in Turkey is coming soon and as it gets closer, I am more and more looking forward to playing it," Ginobili said.

"It would be a strange feeling not to be part of the World Championship, it's inevitable."

Ginobili was outstanding at the 2002 FIBA World Championship in Indianapolis when Argentina won a silver medal, and he was terrific at the 2006 event in Japan when Argentina reached the Semi-Finals before a last-second defeat to eventual champions Spain.

The veteran guard's wife, however, is going to be giving birth to twins.

"As I said many times, there are things that come into play," Ginobili said in the Argentinian media.

"First and foremost, my twins, who will be a few months old by then and it will not be easy to leave them alone with their mother."

Ginobili is also uncertain about his NBA future as he will be out of contract at the end of the season.

"Secondly, I don't have a team just yet and I don't know what I will do," Ginobili said.

"Also my fitness condition also counts. In previous tournaments, this affected me.

"This is a complicated decision and whatever I decide, it will be a difficult choice."

Ginobili is so important to Argentina that coach Sergio Hernandez might consider allowing him to miss the bulk of the team's preparations.

"I wouldn't want to go to a World Championship without a warm-up tour, even if Sergio Hernandez would allow me to do so," Ginobili said.

"That would be a lack of respect and besides, I need time to re-adapt to FIBA rules and to my national teammates so it's not that easy."

Argentina will play in the Preliminary Round in Group A against Serbia, Australia, Germany, Jordan and Angola.

If He plays in International championship I hope the Spurs take out a multi-million dollar insurance policy on him in case he gets injured .

[Mel_13]

He also would like to play in London in 2012... just saying...

Like Pop once said; "He's Manu Ginobili"

We're talking about one of the great competitors in recent memory. The end of his basketball career is in sight and I'm sure he wants to do as much as possible in the few years left to him as an elite athlete. People like him do not readily accept limitations or conditions. I don't doubt for a minute that he believes he can play to his maximum level for his NT and for an NBA team. It's that mindset that results in a player who never gives up on a play, a game, or a season.

He's Manu Ginobili.

[Mel_13]

If He plays in International championship I hope the Spurs take out a multi-million dollar insurance policy on him in case he gets injured .

All NBA players in FIBA sponsored tournaments are covered by insurance. Insurance payments do not, however, enable a team to replace the player with someone of comparable talent.

[kace]

Old story here on ST. Some people will understand it. Some others will ask for loayalty to the team who pays him as a professional athlete. IMO, that's because they are professional athletes that they have to play these international competitions. that's how it should be in every sports IMO, either it will be the death of these competitions.

but i find this sentence amazing:

"First and foremost, my twins, who will be a few months old by then and it will not be easy to leave them alone with their mother."

i just can't agree with this. and i'm not far from finding it disgusting. i mean i understand it would be difficult to be far from his wife and his young twins, without a doubt. no problem.

but to make it an argument not to play in the World champ ? that's all the loyalty you've got for your beloved country ?

WTF ? i know dozens of fathers who had to let for some days/weeks their young baby for their work. We're talking about some few weeks. i always respected Manu for his will to play and to compete with his NT. but here, we're talking about selfishness. a diva behaviour. If he put his national team above his NBA team, leaving his family for some weeks shouldn't be a problem. it's not like he would miss his twins birth or if his wife would be without anyone to help and take care of her. Childish and irrespectful.

[Phenomanul]

Good argument, especially neglecting the part about him being ineffective most of the season and not really finding a big role on the team because of that. I never expected a correlation=causation argument from you.

Settle down cleetus... I wasn't making that argument, I was simply pointing to the fact that others can't use it against him either... Way to read between the lines.

I'm one of few people who think Ginobili could have been an effective NBA player since the end of the year 2000... instead the FO waited and brought him over for the 2002-2003 season, one in which he was hampered by the aformentioned injury, but one that ultimately resulted in him being a factor at the end.... This was because Ginobili was already that good.

Much of his inconsistency that season however stemmed more from Popovich not yet realizing that the Ginobili package came with boneheaded plays... and understanding that this same Ginobili was still just as capable of winning the game for you if only given playing time... Popovich didn't have this epiphany 'til the end of the 2004 season after failing to properly maintain Turkoglu's confidence at Ginobili's expense...

That's why that Gold Medal run was as important to Ginobili's confidence as it was to Pop's use of his talents. It would be silly to claim otherwise given his use before that tournament.



And they got bounced in the first round in 2009 after a stress fracture ended his season. A stress fracture that was likely a result of not having any time off.

One that was sustained while overcompensating for the injury he suffered while playing for the Spurs the season before. I already suggested that he should have taken that summer off to nurse his injury... I'm not arguing in favor of his decision to play in Beijing.

This time around (knock on wood) he is perfectly healthy. The choice is his. That said, he realizes that more factors than just health need to be considered.




No, Ginobili being healthy in 2003-04 is what made him a star. Ginobili carrying the Spurs in the double OT game against LA and their 4 Hall of Famers was the birth of Ginobili the superstar.

The "Top of the Key play" that no one seems to stop when Ginobili is "on" (even though they know it's coming) wasn't a go-to play 'til after his Gold medal run... not before...

I was at that 2OT game you cited... we knew he was special then. And yet Pop still deferred to Hedo for most of that season.

Ginobili started the 04-05 season on a tear.... enough to garner him his only all-star selection, despite having played that summer. He didn't run out of gas either (a common strawman around here) because his particular post-season run that season was one for the ages... 2005 Playoff Ginobili is the long-haired version of the Ginobili we envision when people suggest "he's back"...

[DAF86]

but i find this sentence amazing:


i just can't agree with this. and i'm not far from finding it disgusting. i mean i understand it would be difficult to be far from his wife and his young twins, without a doubt. no problem.

but to make it an argument not to play in the World champ ? that's all the loyalty you've got for your beloved country ?

WTF ? i know dozens of fathers who had to let for some days/weeks their young baby for their work. We're talking about some few weeks. i always respected Manu for his will to play and to compete with his NT. but here, we're talking about selfishness. a diva behaviour. If he put his national team above his NBA team, leaving his family for some weeks shouldn't be a problem. it's not like he would miss his twins birth or if his wife would be without anyone to help and take care of her. Childish and irrespectful.

Sons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else (specially a basketball tournament)

[ElNono]

Like Pop once said; "He's Manu Ginobili"

We're talking about one of the great competitors in recent memory. The end of his basketball career is in sight and I'm sure he wants to do as much as possible in the few years left to him as an elite athlete. People like him do not readily accept limitations or conditions. I don't doubt for a minute that he believes he can play to his maximum level for his NT and for an NBA team. It's that mindset that results in a player who never gives up on a play, a game, or a season.

He's Manu Ginobili.

He actually did said in his article that he understands that his body might prevent him from doing all those things (he mentioned that the qualifying tournament for the Olympics might actually be in Argentina, with all the weight that carries). So he's definitely aware of his limitations. Then again, there's always the competitor in him pushing and pushing...

[Mel_13]

He actually did said in his article that he understands that his body might prevent him from doing all those things (he mentioned that the qualifying tournament for the Olympics might actually be in Argentina, with all the weight that carries). So he's definitely aware of his limitations. Then again, there's always the competitor in him pushing and pushing...

Yep. Manu's aware of his limitations, he's just not quite ready to accept them. It's an integral part of his character. It's what makes him fly headlong for a loose ball knowing the impact with the hardwood will follow. I want him to rest this summer, but I understand the internal forces pointing toward the opposite decision.

[4>0rings]

See ya!!! I hope you foul a TP layup to lose the WC.

[ElNono]

Yep. Manu's aware of his limitations, he's just not quite ready to accept them. It's an integral part of his character. It's what makes him fly headlong for a loose ball knowing the impact with the hardwood will follow. I want him to rest this summer, but I understand the internal forces pointing toward the opposite decision.

There's some on that (the internal forces) in the article. I can't really post it until it's on their site, as I explained in the other thread, but make sure to have a look at it when it comes out. It makes for an interesting read.

[Phenomanul]

Not lost on his decision is the effect that the CBA negotiations will have on next season...

He might actually have a "summer" even if he decides to play due to the likelihood that we end up with another lock-out...

It's a shame for Duncan though....

[Mel_13]

There's some on that (the internal forces) in the article. I can't really post it until it's on their site, as I explained in the other thread, but make sure to have a look at it when it comes out. It makes for an interesting read.

Looking forward to it. It will be good to get something straight from the source without editing.

[spurs10]

Any American NBA players planning on playing for the U.S.?

[kace]

Sons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else (specially a basketball tournament)

really ? :lol i guess you understood that wasn't the point. he doesn't have to abandon them for good to play this World championship...

it's about letting his family what ? 4 weeks ? and that's the main worry for manu about his play with his beloved NT ? come on.

Every player has to let his family for some weeks in this kind of tournament.

his children will be young but still some months old and hopefully, healthy.

i'm not saying he won't miss them but come on, a lot of people has to do the same thing for their job.


On a side note, the Manchester City soccer team coach, the Italian Roberto Mancini, has asked Carlos Tevez, his argentine star, to come back quickly in England to play for his team whereas he was in Argentina next to his wife and his premature baby whose health was very fragile. He even reproached him his non-professional behaviour (staying a lot of time far from the team who pays him).

i found this awful, disgusting from Mancini. Tevez came back and was brilliant and clutch in a very important game against Chelsea, making somehow Mancini right about his request.

Still that was an abject behaviour from the coach. In Manu's situation, it would only be the usual life of a professional athlete, even if i of course understand he would miss his family.

[ElNono]

it's about letting his family what ? 4 weeks ?

2 weeks. August 28 to September 12.

[kace]

2 weeks. August 28 to September 12.

i was counting the training/preparation with the team before the tournament.

[ElNono]

i was counting the training/preparation with the team before the tournament.

True. He did say he wanted to practice with the team before going, if he decided to go. But he can travel with the kids for that if they're healthy.
They should be 3 months old by then, IIRC.

[DAF86]

really ? :lol i guess you understood that wasn't the point. he doesn't have to abandon them for good to play this World championship...

it's about letting his family what ? 4 weeks ? and that's the main worry for manu about his play with his beloved NT ? come on.

Every player has to let his family for some weeks in this kind of tournament.

his children will be young but still some months old and hopefully, healthy.

i'm not saying he won't miss them but come on, a lot of people has to do the same thing for their job.


On a side note, the Manchester City soccer team coach, the Italian Roberto Mancini, has asked Carlos Tevez, his argentine star, to come back quickly in England to play for his team whereas he was in Argentina next to his wife and his premature baby whose health was very fragile. He even reproached him his non-professional behaviour (staying a lot of time far from the team who pays him).

i found this awful from Mancini. Tevez came back and was brilliant and clutch in a very important game against Chelsea, making somehow Mancini right about his request.

Still that was an abject behaviour from the coach. In Manu's situation, it would only be the usual life of a professional athlete, even if i of course understand he would miss his family.

Of course it would be OK for Ginobili to leave his kids for a month or so to play the WC, but it would also be OK for him to stay with them (specially considering that they would be just a few months old) instead of playing for a team that he already gave everything he could ever dream of. I don't care either way but I found your "i just can't agree with this. and i'm not far from finding it disgusting" comment as an exaggeration. Do you really find almost "disgusting" the fact that he prefers to stay with his kids than playing a basketball tournament?

[kace]

Of course it wouldn't be OK for Ginobili to leave his kids for a month or so to play the WC, but it would also be OK for him to stay with them (specially considering that they would be just a few months old) instead of playing for a team that he already gave everything he could ever dream of. I don't care either way but I found your "i just can't agree with this. and i'm not far from finding it disgusting" comment as an exaggeration. Do you really find almost "disgusting" the fact that he prefers to stay with his kids than playing a basketball tournament?

sometimes my limited english can make me use inappropriate words. disgusting was one of those.

but still, i find it shocking, really. without a doubt. This should be an relatively "easy" sacrifice for someone who always claimed his love for his NT.

[Brazil]

Imagine that discussion...
Pop: "No TP you can't play this summer"
TP: "If Manu goes to the WC, I'll go too"
Pop:"Manu won't play this summer"
TP: "Yeah but Manu said to me if you go I'll go then I said if you go I'll go"
...

[Obstructed_View]

Manu has plenty money. He probably prefers to win for his country?

Not if he doesn't have a contract. He'll only risk his health if it's someone eles's millions of dollars on the line. If Manu's a free agent you're likely going to see just how passionate and patriotic he is when he stays at home.

[ElNono]

Not if he doesn't have a contract. He'll only risk his health if it's someone eles's millions of dollars on the line. If Manu's a free agent you're likely going to see just how passionate and patriotic he is when he stays at home.

Not really. It's not about the money. Insurance pays back if he gets injured.
What it does do, however, is limit said team on having Manu's contribution for the duration of recovery.

[TD 21]

This could be the straw that breaks the camels back. I've maintained for a while that I think the Spurs will re-sign Ginobili for 2 years/$20 million, but if he's going to run himself ragged again in the summer, I'm not sure they'll be willing to make that commitment.

Honestly, it's reached the point with Parker and Ginobili where the Spurs may just have to offer them an ultimatum: if you continue to play every summer for your national team, we're not re-signing (in the case of Ginobili) you or we're going to trade (in the case of Parker) you. Enough is enough.

This team has probably one year left to even think about competing for a championship and these two guys, who can't stay healthy as is, want to play for their national team for the umpteenth time over taking one last run? Shows where their priority lies. I realize it's the World Championships and particularly in the case of Ginobili, this is probably his last shot to play in it, but it's not like he hasn't done it before and it's not like it will be played on home soil.

To me, the number one thing is taking one last run next season, while Duncan is still guaranteed to be around and will likely still be one of the better players in the league. If these two care more about their national teams than that, then get them the fuck out of here and try with a younger cast surrounding Duncan. It probably won't work out, but at least the team will have more pieces to re-build with going forward.

[DPG21920]

Not really. It's not about the money. Insurance pays back if he gets injured.
What it does do, however, is limit said team on having Manu's contribution for the duration of recovery.

That is his point. Manu gets paid no matter what. If Manu had to choose, between the millions and his country, that would be an easy choice.

The Spurs are the ones stuck in the bad spot when Manu goes down. They pay everything and lose "the unseen" value, which is their team suffering.

[TMTTRIO]

I guess he's willing to sacrifice the rest of his professional career in order to play for his country and I don't blame him even though it's hard to see. I'm just not seeing teams coming after him and offering him much now if they see or hear that he's going to continue to continue to play for his country.

[024]

might be good news. spurs can use this to lowball ginobili. a 5-6 million contract or just slightly above the MLE outbid the rest. won't be much risk involved.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think Ginobili is just saying this to keep the overseas press intrigued. I bet you when this summer arrives he will put out a press release saying how devastated he is to not being able to play in the WC.

He always said he'd put his family first, and first he needs a contract to continue supporting his family. (Not that he isn't already wealthy)

[Johnny RIngo]

If Spurs don't make it out of the first round(or even miss the playoffs) I could see him playing the summer.

[Obstructed_View]

I think Ginobili is just saying this to keep the overseas press intrigued. I bet you when this summer arrives he will put out a press release saying how devastated he is to not being able to play in the WC.

He always said he'd put his family first, and first he needs a contract to continue supporting his family. (Not that he isn't already wealthy)

If you are suggesting that this could be a negotiating tactic to get the Spurs to extend him, I'm inclined to agree with the possibility.

[ElNono]

That is his point. Manu gets paid no matter what.

The Spurs get paid back too, that's exactly what I meant by the money not being the issue.


If Manu had to choose, between the millions and his country, that would be an easy choice.

He's a good enough basketball player where he doesn't need to make that kind of choice. He just needs to find which team is going to pay him and also don't make an issue when he wants to play for his NT. Plenty of teams in the league that do that.


The Spurs are the ones stuck in the bad spot when Manu goes down. They pay everything and lose "the unseen" value, which is their team suffering.

They certainly doesn't lose paying his salary, which is what I was pointing to. But yeah, I agree that when any player goes down, the team loses in more ways than one.

[ducks]

Manu covers all his bases here, but makes one thing clear. If the Spurs sign him to an extension, it will come without any public pronouncement or private assurance as to his decision on playing in Turkey.

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/38896/arti.html

ARG - Manu hopeful of playing in Turkey

SAN ANTONIO (2010 FIBA World Championship) - Argentina's basketball icon Manu Ginobili is back to full fitness and playing a pivotal role for the play-off chasing San Antonio Spurs.

Injuries have hindered him in international competition in recent years but his performances of late with the Spurs have fuelled hopes that he will play for his country at the 2010 FIBA World Championship in Turkey.

"The tournament in Turkey is coming soon and as it gets closer, I am more and more looking forward to playing it," Ginobili said.

"It would be a strange feeling not to be part of the World Championship, it's inevitable."

Ginobili was outstanding at the 2002 FIBA World Championship in Indianapolis when Argentina won a silver medal, and he was terrific at the 2006 event in Japan when Argentina reached the Semi-Finals before a last-second defeat to eventual champions Spain.

The veteran guard's wife, however, is going to be giving birth to twins.

"As I said many times, there are things that come into play," Ginobili said in the Argentinian media.

"First and foremost, my twins, who will be a few months old by then and it will not be easy to leave them alone with their mother."

Ginobili is also uncertain about his NBA future as he will be out of contract at the end of the season.

"Secondly, I don't have a team just yet and I don't know what I will do," Ginobili said.

"Also my fitness condition also counts. In previous tournaments, this affected me.

"This is a complicated decision and whatever I decide, it will be a difficult choice."

Ginobili is so important to Argentina that coach Sergio Hernandez might consider allowing him to miss the bulk of the team's preparations.

"I wouldn't want to go to a World Championship without a warm-up tour, even if Sergio Hernandez would allow me to do so," Ginobili said.

"That would be a lack of respect and besides, I need time to re-adapt to FIBA rules and to my national teammates so it's not that easy."

Argentina will play in the Preliminary Round in Group A against Serbia, Australia, Germany, Jordan and Angola. so he is a fa he still wants to play
he is being more stupid then tp

[ducks]

If Spurs don't make it out of the first round(or even miss the playoffs) I could see him playing the summer.

then he will not ever be a spur unless he signs for less then the mle

[raspsa]

If the Spurs win the championship, he can play in the WC.. otherwise, no way.

[baseline bum]

Settle down cleetus... I wasn't making that argument, I was simply pointing to the fact that others can't use it against him either... Way to read between the lines.

I'm one of few people who think Ginobili could have been an effective NBA player since the end of the year 2000... instead the FO waited and brought him over for the 2002-2003 season, one in which he was hampered by the aformentioned injury, but one that ultimately resulted in him being a factor at the end.... This was because Ginobili was already that good.

Much of his inconsistency that season however stemmed more from Popovich not yet realizing that the Ginobili package came with boneheaded plays... and understanding that this same Ginobili was still just as capable of winning the game for you if only given playing time... Popovich didn't have this epiphany 'til the end of the 2004 season after failing to properly maintain Turkoglu's confidence at Ginobili's expense...

That's why that Gold Medal run was as important to Ginobili's confidence as it was to Pop's use of his talents. It would be silly to claim otherwise given his use before that tournament.



One that was sustained while overcompensating for the injury he suffered while playing for the Spurs the season before. I already suggested that he should have taken that summer off to nurse his injury... I'm not arguing in favor of his decision to play in Beijing.

This time around (knock on wood) he is perfectly healthy. The choice is his. That said, he realizes that more factors than just health need to be considered.




The "Top of the Key play" that no one seems to stop when Ginobili is "on" (even though they know it's coming) wasn't a go-to play 'til after his Gold medal run... not before...

I was at that 2OT game you cited... we knew he was special then. And yet Pop still deferred to Hedo for most of that season.

Ginobili started the 04-05 season on a tear.... enough to garner him his only all-star selection, despite having played that summer. He didn't run out of gas either (a common strawman around here) because his particular post-season run that season was one for the ages... 2005 Playoff Ginobili is the long-haired version of the Ginobili we envision when people suggest "he's back"...

Cleetus? Go clean the sand out your vagina son.

[BillMc]

i don't want him to play but i understand why he'd want to.

this.

[Phenomanul]

Cleetus? Go clean the sand out your vagina son.

Bitter much? :lol

[baseline bum]

Bitter much? :lol

Fuck off. Being associated with redneck bible thumpers is a huge insult.

[raspsa]

Manu, your job in the offseason should be changing diapers..

[smeagol]

Fuck off. Being associated with redneck bible thumpers is a huge insult.

You are a bitter indeed . . .

[baseline bum]

You are a bitter indeed . . .

You can shut the fuck up dumbass. This is an A and B conversation.

[TD 21]

You can shut the fuck up dumbass. This is an A and B conversation.

So you're saying he/she can C their way out of it? I couldn't resist.

[baseline bum]

So you're saying he/she can C their way out of it? I couldn't resist.

:lol

http://www.highsnobiety.com/uploads/pics/benny-gold-doughboy-new-era-cap-2.jpg

You can "C" your way out of my ride... and we gonna "C" your cripple ass walk all the way home.

[smeagol]

You can shut the fuck up dumbass. This is an A and B conversation.

I was just saying you sound bitter today.

And I can make this an A and B and C conversation whenever the fuck I want. This is a message board, after all.

[chasky]

he still has no chance of winning WC unless he becomes American citizen and plays with Team USA

Yes, In 2004 he had no chance either.

[baseline bum]

I was just saying you sound bitter today.

And I can make this an A and B and C conversation whenever the fuck I want. This is a message board, after all.

Hey dipshit, your fellow bible-thumper douchebag is the one who started with the insults when he got called out for his stupid point.

[smeagol]

I'm not a bible thumper. Not sure why all the insults. I only said you were bitter.

By the way, you've made stupid points yourself.

[baseline bum]

I'm not a bible thumper. Not sure why all the insults. I only said you were bitter.

By the way, you've made stupid points yourself.

Argue them instead of being a passive-aggressive douchebag then.

[smeagol]

Argue them instead of being a passive-aggressive douchebag then.

Not in the mood to argue.

Just in the mood to point out you appear to be bitter for some reason.

Chau!

[baseline bum]

Not in the mood to argue.

Just in the mood to point out you appear to be bitter for some reason.

Chau!

So you just came to throw insults and then cry when you hear them back?

[smeagol]

So you just came to throw insults and then cry when you hear them back?

The only one throwing insults was you, unless pointing out you appear to be bitter is an insult.

And I'm not crying. Actually, I'm laughing 'cause life is pretty good to me . . .

[baseline bum]

Bullshit, you dropped by with some passive-aggressive drive-by crap and then started playing the victim card when you heard it back.

[baseline bum]

So Mr Drive-By, tell me where I was wrong when I pointed out that Manu lost major parts of two seasons due to injuries suffered in international play, since those are the main points I was making until Phenom and later you decided it was better to go the 3rd grade route.

[ElNono]

AFAIK, the only season where Manu lost NBA games due to an injury in international play was the 2002-2003 NBA season...

[DAF86]

So Mr Drive-By, tell me where I was wrong when I pointed out that Manu lost major parts of two seasons due to injuries suffered in international play, since those are the main points I was making until Phenom and later you decided it was better to go the 3rd grade route.

The injury that made Manu lost major parts of two seasons was suffered during an NBA game so you were wrong prettty much on the whole thing.

[baseline bum]

The injury that made Manu lost major parts of two seasons was suffered during an NBA game so you were wrong prettty much on the whole thing.

The one in 2008 was made worse when he reinjured it in the Olympics, and probably led to the stress fracture due to overcompensation. The one in 2002 was clearly during the WCs.

[DAF86]

The one in 2008 was made worse when he reinjured it in the Olympics, and probably led to the stress fracture due to overcompensation.

Still, the injury took place on an NBA game and if Manu wouldn't have reinjured it in the Olympics he would have done it on the NBA the next season, the thing was crusehd.


The one in 2002 was clearly during the WCs.

I thought you were talking just about the last one. Yeah, the 2002 one was during the WC but I don't remember him missing a meaningful amount of time, besides the Spurs ended up winning the whole thing so who cares?

[Phenomanul]

Hey dipshit, your fellow bible-thumper douchebag is the one who started with the insults when he got called out for his stupid point.

:lmao

You threw the first stone buddy... and you didn't refute anything... you just copied my entire argument and made a stupid comment about sand and feminine hygiene.

How is that considered counterpoint? Oh wait, it would be in your delusional world where no one but you is right... :rolleyes

Like I said, you're acting like a bitter twit... insulting religion when that was never on the table of discussion. Irrelevantly so I would add...

Grow up...

:wakeup

[Phenomanul]

So Mr Drive-By, tell me where I was wrong when I pointed out that Manu lost major parts of two seasons due to injuries suffered in international play, since those are the main points I was making until Phenom and later you decided it was better to go the 3rd grade route.



I went 3rd grade route?



Good argument, especially neglecting the part about him being ineffective most of the season and not really finding a big role on the team because of that. I never expected a correlation=causation argument from you.

The first stone...


My response intended to correct the fact that your accusation was baseless.

You said Ginobili being hurt twice after international play was a reason not to let him go to Turkey... I pointed out the fact that the Spurs won the Championship three times after FIBA ball... Rendering your observation null... I never said that they won because he played FIBA ball. If I had then your "correlation=causation" statement would have been valid... But I didn't because that wasn't my argument... and yet you saw it fitting to throw a jab at me as if it were...

Then you have the audacity to say that I overreacted for being called out... Every one but you can see the hypocrisy of what later followed.
Who knew you would get so bent out of shape for a "Klumps" reference... unless of course your real name is Cleetus...

[baseline bum]

I went 3rd grade route?



The first stone...


My response intended to correct the fact that your accusation was baseless.

You said Ginobili being hurt twice after international play was a reason not to let him go to Turkey... I pointed out the fact that the Spurs won the Championship three times after FIBA ball... Rendering your observation null... I never said that they won because he played FIBA ball. If I had then your "correlation=causation" statement would have been valid... But I didn't because that wasn't my argument... and yet you saw it fitting to throw a jab at me as if it were...

Then you have the audacity to say that I overreacted for being called out... Every one but you can see the hypocrisy of what later followed.
Who knew you would get so bent out of shape for a "Klumps" reference... unless of course your real name is Cleetus...

You can't be serious. You threw the stone in labelling me a redneck with the Cleetus remark, which was uncalled for when you were clearly making a correlation argument for the Spurs success in years he didn't get hurt. It's plainly obvious that his injuries in 2002 and 2008 cost the Spurs bigtime.

Ginobili should have been a rookie of the year candidate in 2002-03. He didn't just learn to play in the 2004 Olympics; he was killing in Kinder-Bologna for two seasons before he came. He was far better than the 7.6 ppg on 44% shooting that he delivered in an injury-plagued 2002-03 season (or the 9.5 points on 39% shooting he had in the playoffs). It's not like he underwhelmed because he was an immature 19 year-old playing his first important games. But you think it's irrelevant to whether he plays now, because the Spurs happened to win the title in 2003. Maybe I'd agree if the Spurs still had Tim Duncan in his prime, David Robinson, Stephen Jackson, and Malik Rose. Unfortunately, they're way weaker at every single one of those positions now (starting PF, starting C, starting SG, and backup PF/C), and the team will go nowhere with the inconsistent Ginobili we saw in 2002-03. Blaming the coach for Manu having a bad opening season is a cop-out. Anyone who watched that year knows he wasn't physically what he was at Kinder the previous season because he was constantly battling that nagging ankle injury.

2008-09 is pretty self-explanatory; the team nosedived when his stress-fracture sunk the season. Manu has always been injury prone, and out of the summers he played international ball (02,04,06, and 08), twice he had injuries that cast a long shadow over his season. Maybe you're fine with a coin flip, but I think it's ridiculous to think an injury-prone player (and an aging one at that) with a demonstrated track record of negatively affecting seasons as a direct result of playing in those competitions should still be playing in them in the last year or two of a title window the Spurs are desperately trying to pry open. There's a clear causative link between Manu playing in the summer and the Spurs title hopes diminishing.

[baseline bum]

I thought you were talking just about the last one. Yeah, the 2002 one was during the WC but I don't remember him missing a meaningful amount of time, besides the Spurs ended up winning the whole thing so who cares?

He missed 13 games in 02-03 and didn't seem to play a lot of minutes until after the all-star break. All that missed time meant he never seemed to gel with the team or find his role on it, and thus was a bit of a disappointment until 03-04. Everyone remembers the steal on Jefferson in game 6, the shot to put the Spurs up 5 in game 3 in NJ, crossing over Kobe and then Shaq in game 6, and the putback at the half in Dallas in game 3 or 4, but what's lost is that overall his playoffs individually were nothing to write home about, and the Spurs were lucky as hell Stephen Jackson came out of nowhere that season to cover up the hole that Manu was brought in to fill. I don't see any way a healthy Ginobili has that kind of season and playoff production.

[ElNono]

He missed 13 games in 02-03 and didn't seem to play a lot of minutes until after the all-star break. All that missed time meant he never seemed to gel with the team or find his role on it, and thus was a bit of a disappointment until 03-04. Everyone remembers the steal on Jefferson in game 6, the shot to put the Spurs up 5 in game 3 in NJ, crossing over Kobe and then Shaq in game 6, and the putback at the half in Dallas in game 3 or 4, but what's lost is that overall his playoffs individually were nothing to write home about, and the Spurs were lucky as hell Stephen Jackson came out of nowhere that season to cover up the hole that Manu was brought in to fill. I don't see any way a healthy Ginobili has that kind of season and playoff production.

First of all, Steve Smith was in front of him on the rotation when the season started. That's why he didn't play many minutes until the All-Star break, where it became evident the guy deserved more time out there. And are you really knocking on a NBA rookie because his first ever playoffs weren't superstar caliber? Last, but not least, your selective memory seems to be skipping some key plays from those finals. Who could forget his steal on Lucious Harris in Game 3 along with a runner that pretty much sealed the deal in that game?

Here... refresh your memory: recap (http://www.nba.com/games/20030608/SASNJN/recap.html)

To be honest, ragging on this guy is retarded. I understand if you're mad or pissed off because he loves his NT as much or more than the Spurs. But to try to minimize the impact this guy had on the Spurs is really being butthurt and nothing else.

[baseline bum]

I don't know how you can take explaining a subpar season by injury troubles as ragging on him.

[ElNono]

I don't know how you can take explaining a subpar season by injury troubles as ragging on him.

What subpar season? His rookie season was as good as any other rookie that comes to a team with two hall of famers. Tell me another Euro player that came straight to the NBA and made an impact right away... it always takes time for them to adapt. Furthermore, what injury troubles????? He recovered from the twisted ankle just fine. I don't remember him limping or complaining about any injury that season, do you?

[Phenomanul]

You can't be serious. You threw the stone in labelling me a redneck with the Cleetus remark...

Again... it was a "Klumps" reference... Eddie Murphy... ring a bell?

Why would I call you a redneck? I've never even met you. :lol


which was uncalled for when you were clearly making a correlation argument for the Spurs success in years he didn't get hurt. It's plainly obvious that his injuries in 2002 and 2008 cost the Spurs bigtime.

You misread my entire argument... and continue to insist that it was how you and only you perceived it...

I wasn't arguing for correlation/causation... I was simply stating that you couldn't say that International play has always injured Manu (a true correlation/causation argument). But I can see that no amount of explanation will suit you... you've dug in your heels at this point.


Ginobili should have been a rookie of the year candidate in 2002-03.

Find where I state that Ginobili's injury vs. Germany didn't slow his integration into the league... In fact, I agreed with you...

But you can't ignore what Pop, by his own admission has said on numerous occasions regarding his misuse of Ginobili during his first two seasons in the league... you want me to find those articles for ya? Unless of course you feel the effects from his high-ankle sprain against Nowitzki lingered on through the 2004 season as well?

Fact is, Ginobili was healthy by January of 2003... but he kept getting yanked out of games for what Pop considered "boneheaded" plays... It wasn't until Athens that Pop finally decided to "unleash" Ginobili.


He didn't just learn to play in the 2004 Olympics; he was killing in Kinder-Bologna for two seasons before he came. He was far better than the 7.6 ppg on 44% shooting that he delivered in an injury-plagued 2002-03 season (or the 9.5 points on 39% shooting he had in the playoffs).

I think I more than implied this same point by suggesting that he should have been brought over sooner... of course, you just glossed over it... to make your insidious genitalia reference... 3rd grade route indeed...



It's not like he underwhelmed because he was an immature 19 year-old playing his first important games.

Why do you feel you have to put words in my mouth to make your points... I never implied what you just stated.


But you think it's irrelevant to whether he plays now, because the Spurs happened to win the title in 2003. Maybe I'd agree if the Spurs still had Tim Duncan in his prime, David Robinson, Stephen Jackson, and Malik Rose. Unfortunately, they're way weaker at every single one of those positions now (starting PF, starting C, starting SG, and backup PF/C), and the team will go nowhere with the inconsistent Ginobili we saw in 2002-03. Blaming the coach for Manu having a bad opening season is a cop-out. Anyone who watched that year knows he wasn't physically what he was at Kinder the previous season because he was constantly battling that nagging ankle injury.

I never said it wasn't irrelevant. Even so... that's no reason to state that Ginobili will get injured in Turkey. There's no guarantee for health... Ginobili can get injured in what is left of the season... during the playoffs... at his home... in the offseason... at the gym... going to Turkey doesn't necessarily mean he'll get injured... Sure, his age doesn't help... but I believe I've stated that much on at least three occasions in this thread alone...



2008-09 is pretty self-explanatory; the team nosedived when his stress-fracture sunk the season. Manu has always been injury prone, and out of the summers he played international ball (02,04,06, and 08), twice he had injuries that cast a long shadow over his season. Maybe you're fine with a coin flip, but I think it's ridiculous to think an injury-prone player (and an aging one at that) with a demonstrated track record of negatively affecting seasons as a direct result of playing in those competitions should still be playing in them in the last year or two of a title window the Spurs are desperately trying to pry open. There's a clear causative link between Manu playing in the summer and the Spurs title hopes diminishing.

I've gone on the record that I wish he wouldn't play... but thanks for admitting that it was you that is made the correlation=causation argument to begin with...

I bolded it above so that you can stop with your theatrics... :wakeup

[21_Blessings]

I am looking forward to watching Manu come off the Lakers bench next year.

[Obstructed_View]

I am looking forward to this thread dying the death it so richly deserves.

[baseline bum]

Again... it was a "Klumps" reference... Eddie Murphy... ring a bell?

Why would I call you a redneck? I've never even met you. :lol


No, I have never seen Klumps with Eddie Murphy. So what exactly is the context of the Cleetus remark then?

Having looked up who Cletus was, it doesn't sound like a favorable comparison.



You misread my entire argument... and continue to insist that it was how you and only you perceived it...


What exactly was the point of the bolded argument about the Spurs winning three titles then? I implied the international play and the lack of time off for Manu had a dangerous chance of hurting the team based on past results, where nagging injuries significantly hampered his seasons and thus hurt the Spurs chances (since it happened twice). You seemed to imply all of that should be dismissed because the Spurs won the title three times when he played the previous summer. As if the correlation between titles and international play rendered the injury concerns moot.



I wasn't arguing for correlation/causation... I was simply stating that you couldn't say that International play has always injured Manu (a true correlation/causation argument). But I can see that no amount of explanation will suit you... you've dug in your heels at this point.


I never made any argument remotely like that.



Find where I state that Ginobili's injury vs. Germany didn't slow his integration into the league... In fact, I agreed with you...

But you can't ignore what Pop, by his own admission has said on numerous occasions regarding his misuse of Ginobili during his first two seasons in the league... you want me to find those articles for ya? Unless of course you feel the effects from his high-ankle sprain against Nowitzki lingered on through the 2004 season as well?

Fact is, Ginobili was healthy by January of 2003... but he kept getting yanked out of games for what Pop considered "boneheaded" plays... It wasn't until Athens that Pop finally decided to "unleash" Ginobili.


2003 and 2004 are two seasons wholly unlike each other, so they deserve to be treated separately. In 03, like you just said above, his injury hurt his integration with the team. It prevented the team from developing the chemistry with Manu that would have likely been there had he not dealt with that ankle problem, and hence relegated him to a smaller role than a Manu who was healthy for the year would have had.

I don't think the 2004 debacle was about distrust between Pop and Manu. It was more about him being in love with a 6'10" guy who could hit outside shots, rebound, and defend, and Pop trying to massage his ego and hope he gained confidence. Popovich saw another project like what he had in Malik Rose or Stephen Jackson, except with a much stronger talent base to build off of. Perhaps the gold changed things for him, but I think the simpler and more likely explanation is Pop just realized his project was a bust and that it was time to stop screwing around at Manu's expense.



I think I more than implied this same point by suggesting that he should have been brought over sooner... of course, you just glossed over it... to make your insidious genitalia reference... 3rd grade route indeed...


Surely you can see why being called a redneck name like Cleetus would piss someone off.



Why do you feel you have to put words in my mouth to make your points... I never implied what you just stated.


I never said you implied that. I posted it as an illustration of why the expectations on him were higher than for a typical rookie to solidify the point that 02-03 was an extremely disappointing season for him (individually).



I never said it wasn't irrelevant. Even so... that's no reason to state that Ginobili will get injured in Turkey. There's no guarantee for health... Ginobili can get injured in what is left of the season... during the playoffs... at his home... in the offseason... at the gym... going to Turkey doesn't necessarily mean he'll get injured... Sure, his age doesn't help... but I believe I've stated that much on at least three occasions in this thread alone...


I only said the chances of him, an injury-prone player, getting hurt and casting a cloud over next season again were a major concern. The Spurs have absolutely no margin of error. It's basically do it next year or maybe somehow the year after or wait another 25 years and hope they get lucky enough land another Duncan in the draft.

Besides, if Manu gets hurt in a Spurs uniform, it's in the service of trying to win another title. The best case scenario if he plays Turkey is that Manu doesn't get much rest this summer and has to have his minutes limited next season. It's nothing but negative utility for the team.



I've gone on the record that I wish he wouldn't play... but thanks for admitting that it was you that is made the correlation=causation argument to begin with...

I bolded it above so that you can stop with your theatrics... :wakeup

You've also gone on record criticising valid injury concerns. I'm not sure how you get that argument as a correlative one either. A straight correlation argument is something like "dancing causes cancer" as opposed to "carcinogens in cigarette smoke present at bars causes cancer".

Surely you don't disagree with me in the idea that extra games increase the chances one gets injured and that Manu's body is not the strongest when it comes to fighting off and overcoming injuries. Hence, the probability for getting hurt when his body is worn down from a long season and (hopefully) a decent playoff run is significant, and thus presents the likelihood of it snowballing based on his body and style of play. The age just adds on top of that. A Spurs team with an 80% or less Manu has virtually no chance to do anything serious in the postseason, so having him play in Turkey this year and Olympic qualifiers the next is a hell of a gamble for the team.

[WalterBenitez]

Does the ARG national team pay well?

Not sure if they are paid, probably some few dollars in terms of NBA's budget, but this is not about money is about respect, pride.:toast

For non US' players those (Olimpycs + WC) are the tournaments.

BTW Manu better play or get involved in WC if he ever plan to return to ARG... :rolleyes

[WalterBenitez]

I am looking forward to watching Manu come off the Lakers bench next year.

Why are we suffering with those terrorist posters :bang

[ElNono]

I am looking forward to this thread dying the death it so richly deserves.

:wakeup

[baseline bum]

Yeah, God forbid there is a thread critical of anyone but Pop here.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Not sure if they are paid, probably some few dollars in terms of NBA's budget, but this is not about money is about respect, pride.:toast

For non US' players those (Olimpycs + WC) are the tournaments.

BTW Manu better play or get involved in WC if he ever plan to return to ARG... :rolleyes

are you fucking kidding me? Why? He doesn't owe shit to anyone other than the one paying his salary. Man, I hate idiots that think like you.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, God forbid there is a thread critical of anyone but Pop here.

Has the thread been critical of anyone Spurs related for the last several pages? Most of us have been ignoring the pissing contest that you guys apparently carried in here from the political forum.

[GSH]

Kobe Bryant could have gotten some low-risk, high-profile minutes in the All-Star game. But he sat out, because he's focused on winning another championship. A few days before the All-Star game, he was interviewed about whether or not he would play and he said this:

"I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to run through a wall just to run through a wall," he said. "If it's an injury where I feel like I can play through it and have it heal while I'm playing, then I'll play. But if it's the type of injury where it's going to get worse when I play, then I won't."


I hate the Lakers, and I hate Phil Jackson. But I have to give them credit for what they do well, which is focus on winning championships. If Manu had been playing for the Lakers and pulled the shit he did last summer, there would be no question of re-signing him. Because he'd already be gone.

This isn't a negotiating tool for Manu. I have zero doubt that he is actually planning on playing again this summer - which means that winning an NBA title isn't the most important thing to him. And you know what boys and girls? You don't win championships with players who aren't single-mindedly dedicated to it. All the talent in the world won't overcome that.

[DMX7]

well manu likes to win trophies. Since Spurs have no chance to even make WCF, he will try his luck on WC. At least he could get 2nd or 3rd place there. can't blame him.

well I hope he doesn't like big paychecks then.

[Obstructed_View]

well I hope he doesn't like big paychecks then.

When it comes right down to it, he does.