Are we really a better team without TP??

[tdunk21]

am sorry if this is already there...but are we better without TP??or its just the teams we play are bad????and spurs also climbed up the western by one which puts them at 6th spot....

[VI_Massive]

We just beat 3 terrible teams. If anything, we might be better with RJ and Manu playing heavier minutes together.

[NZ Spurs]

This guy should write for them who shall not be named.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We're not a better team without a healthy TP, but we are a better team without a constantly injured, in and out of the lineup TP. Players need some continuity to know what is expected of them, and all of TP's injuries were messing up the rotations.

[ElNono]

We just beat shitty teams...

[dbreiden83080]

No but RJ plays better..

[Ice009]

We're not a better team without a healthy TP, but we are a better team without a constantly injured, in and out of the lineup TP. Players need some continuity to know what is expected of them, and all of TP's injuries were messing up the rotations.

Yep. I definitely agree with that. With a healthy TP we can be a lot better. When we have an injured TP that fucks up the rotations and we seem to be worse off.

[DAF86]

I don't see how losing an all-star caliber player could make a team better.

[spursbird]

You suck.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't see how losing an all-star caliber player could make a team better.

It might wake them up that they need to step the hell up, but the Spurs will ultimately be a better team with a healthy Tony Parker.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs beat New York, Minnesota and the Clippers without him..seriously, think about the opponents first..

[itzsoweezee]

spurs are definitely better with tp than without. he's got to be one of the most offensively-efficient guards in the league.

however, rj and tp should rarely be on the court together at the same time. rj needs someone to set him up, and a lot of shots to be effective. and tp is not good at setting up others, and is most effective when he's taking a lot of shots.

[lefty]

The Spurs beat New York, Minnesota and the Clippers without him..seriously, think about the opponents first..
NY just destroyed the Mavs by 50 pts (or something like that) in Dallas

They are legit :lol

[Cane]

Parker was having more or less a shitty season. Last year he was in the top 10-12 in the PER standings; this year he didn't even make it to the top 50. To his credit he was starting to return to his vintage self in the games leading to the unfortunate hand injury. But yea a Tony Parker reminiscent of last season would undoubtedly help the Spurs - he was having a career season and looked like a top 3 PG unfortunately injuries have taken their toll.

Thankfully Ginobili returned to his vintage self and even carried a few games basically by himself. Imo throughout the season he was also the best at finding and developing chemistry with this new roster; much better than both Duncan and Parker. The Spurs are taking care of business against the bad ballclubs like they've been doing all season; everybody's scoring and looking confident. With the back to back away games of Miami and Magic coming up...they're going to need it.

[FeZZy]

good try but...no

[HarlemHeat37]

Tony was actually looking like last year's TP when he returned following the Houston game, people seem to have forgotten this already..

The Spurs went 3-0 in those games against Phoenix and twice vs. the Hornets..he was 23 for 38 from the field in those games with his usual assist production and a lot less turnovers than we've seen from him this season..

Then the bad luck of this season continued with the hand injury, just when it looked like he was returning to form..

There's no doubt that he's going to be fresh when he returns, but the problem will now be how the hand will affect his game..even with the Spurs struggles this season, if the big 3 is healthy at the same time, the Spurs would be a tough out..

[DieMrBond]

I don't see how losing an all-star caliber player could make a team better.

Losing Tracy McGrady from the Rockets? That certainly helped them the last year or so in the playoffs :)

[alchemist]

We just beat shitty teams...
:wakeup

[JustinJDW]

We just beat 3 terrible teams. If anything, we might be better with RJ and Manu playing heavier minutes together.This.

[spursrocks]

tony parker sucks on D
tony parker is a shoot first point guard
when tony plays everybody just stands around and let tony do his work.
in other words blair dick and dice wont score a lot of points and suck.
id rather have ginobli to be the playmaker
pg- hill
sg- ginobli
sf- dick
Pf- duncan
C- dice
we should continue to ride with this line up. so we could 'gel' till playoff time.
Bring tony of the bench!
tony sucks on D, and he will ruin the chemistry PERIOD!
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/Flashskin/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/Flashskin/misc/progress.gif http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/Flashskin/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4158273)

[mathbzh]

Two similar threads... so I post it twice:

The team was on a 5 wins streak when Parker got injured...
Tony had a positive +/- in these 5 games and a cumulated +39.
I doubt the team playing better has anything to do with Parker being out.

But it might be a good idea to bring Parker off the bench.

Edit:
Since the injury we played:
- the Cavs without Lebron
- NYK
- Minnesota
- LAC
Tough schedule indeed

[G-Dawgg]

We are not a better team without TP, as long as he is not taking the most shots and is looking to get the rest of the team involved... when he is looking for his own shots, he bogs down the offense and makes it hard for the rest of the team to get into a rythm.

[spursrocks]

amen to that

[PublicOption]

ahh...............................NO!

we are getting better because he is resting, Hill is learning to carry the team and Parker will be back at 100% for the playoffs..........which means SPEED, SPEED, and more SPEED.

[George Gervin's Afro]

We are not a better team without TP, as long as he is not taking the most shots and is looking to get the rest of the team involved... when he is looking for his own shots, he bogs down the offense and makes it hard for the rest of the team to get into a rythm.

pretty much sums it up for me.

[Pauleta14]

We're not a better team without a healthy TP, but we are a better team without a constantly injured, in and out of the lineup TP. Players need some continuity to know what is expected of them, and all of TP's injuries were messing up the rotations.


We just beat shitty teams...


No but RJ plays better..


I don't see how losing an all-star caliber player could make a team better.


You suck.


The Spurs beat New York, Minnesota and the Clippers without him..seriously, think about the opponents first..


spurs are definitely better with tp than without. he's got to be one of the most offensively-efficient guards in the league.

however, rj and tp should rarely be on the court together at the same time. rj needs someone to set him up, and a lot of shots to be effective. and tp is not good at setting up others, and is most effective when he's taking a lot of shots.


good try but...no


Tony was actually looking like last year's TP when he returned following the Houston game, people seem to have forgotten this already..

The Spurs went 3-0 in those games against Phoenix and twice vs. the Hornets..he was 23 for 38 from the field in those games with his usual assist production and a lot less turnovers than we've seen from him this season..


These !! :lol

STalkers are so predictable... it's actually funnier than ridiculous!!

... and this thread is REALLY RIDICULOUS...

[timaios]

The Spurs beat the Clippers by 30 points with Tim Duncan playing only 13 min.
It's clear that Duncan is not useful anymore to that team.
It's time to trade him, the Spurs can easily win the title without him. :wakeup

[jermaine]

The Spurs beat New York, Minnesota and the Clippers without him..seriously, think about the opponents first..

NY just beat the #3 seeded Mavs by 34. I wouldn't say we better but without him others get more involed. I rather that then to have him running a 1 man fastbreak with blinders on. Shitty teams or not you see want RJ could do with the ball in the right spot. If anything these game are gerat confidence builders. 1 more thing to point out, we are winning games we pose to win. We wasn't doing that at first. Hariston wouldn't get to play either if Parker didn't go down. That boy hungry.

[Pauleta14]

NY just beat the #3 seeded Mavs by 34. I wouldn't say we better but without him others get more involed. I rather that then to have him running a 1 man fastbreak with blinders on. Shitty teams or not you see want RJ could do with the ball in the right spot. If anything these game are gerat confidence builders. 1 more thing to point out, we are winning games we pose to win. We wasn't doing that at first. Hariston wouldn't get to play either if Parker didn't go down. That boy hungry.


NY beat the Mavs ONLY because there were humiliate at home (50pts loss!!!)
if the play again 10 times, they'll probably loose 9...

Hairston playing time has more to do with Finley gone than with Tony injury...

G Hill can have some goods games (against bad teams?) at PG, but it's a no brainer for whoever watch the spurs, that he DOESN'T HAVE better playmaking skills than Tony...

WHERE IS TIMVP ??????
WHAT ABOUT RAISING THE BAR???????????

I'm starting to think that we should in fact trade Tony...... for his best!!!:lol
ST is full of amnesic fans...

[DJB]

Yes.

[DJB]

The Spurs beat the Clippers by 30 points with Tim Duncan playing only 13 min.
It's clear that Duncan is not useful anymore to that team.
It's time to trade him, the Spurs can easily win the title without him. :wakeup

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/epic-fail-pants-fail.jpg

[024]

i think ure the one who fails by failing to see his sarcasm.

[FkLA]

No theyre not. Not without an incoming player in return which an injury doesnt provide. I am however in the small boat of Spur fans that think trading Parker for an all-star caliber big man, and allowing GHill to take the reins as PG would make us better.

[Harry Callahan]

Tony has had a bad season (for him) because he has not been healthy at any point of the season.

I would favor hanging on to him next year unless a team got crazy and offered a big package. Tony could easily come back next year and be an All Star caliber player again - he's still only 28 years old.

The Spurs are trying to get younger and Tony is still young enough.

[anakha]

The joke went completely over my head.

[ElNono]

The Spurs beat the Clippers by 30 points with Tim Duncan playing only 13 min.
It's clear that Duncan is not useful anymore to that team.
It's time to trade him, the Spurs can easily win the title without him. :wakeup

Quick, let's get Lebron for him before the other GMs figure it out! :rolleyes

[Dr. Gonzo]

We just beat shitty teams...

At least they weren't losses to shitty team.

[ducks]

bumb

spurs are losing to magic and lost to the cavs
the only 2 decent teams spurs have faced without tp

[DPG21920]

Well if TP would stop facebooking....

[ducks]

duncan also has sucked ass since tp has quit spoon feeding him

[DPG21920]

Who facebook's the most? TP or Manu?

[ducks]

your mommy

[DPG21920]

your mommy

How dare you.

[BadOdor]

ducks is as good an argument for eugenics as you'll get.

[TPnumber1]

am sorry if this is already there...but are we better without TP??or its just the teams we play are bad????and spurs also climbed up the western by one which puts them at 6th spot....

no better no :toast

[kaji157]

Of course we are no better, we need him to play, i don't think that if he starts or plays of the bench is nearly as important as if he plays.
Be it with the first unit (Duncan-Manu) or the Second (Blair), he has players he can make great combinations.
The fact that he is not playing hurts as more than the very arguable benefits we get of Manu starting for him.
I can argue that Manu is a better facilitator than Tony, but Hill?
Please stop this nonsense of Hill being the next Rajon Rondo. Hill is not near that level offensively nor defensively, and FOR SURE, not assisting others.
In that aspect he is THE SAME as TP, and SG turned into a PG.

Look at Hill running the Pick n roll, or making though passes... turnover.
If Hill was that great of a player then he and Blair would have the same chamistry as Manu and Blair or he woul have the same chemistry as TP and TD. He gets a lot of assists on kickouts, but he is not a creator still. He can develop, but as of now, Hill is as good as Tony, at best, in that aspect. Not better by any standars.

And i mean Manu is a better facilitator than Tony because he finds pople that almost no one can find, no because he assists more than Tony. I feel that Tony assists are more safe-basics.

Assists Per 48 minutes (to make everyone even)
30 Tony Parker , SAS 8.7
36 Manu Ginobili , SAS 8.2
113 George Hill , SAS 4.5

[Waps1980]

Assists Per 48 minutes (to make everyone even)
30 Tony Parker , SAS 8.7
36 Manu Ginobili , SAS 8.2
113 George Hill , SAS 4.5



This argument is not very accurate because per 48 minutes for Hill includes him playing SG when TP was in. I'd like to know those stats in games with TP out and him running the PG.

I's also say TP's assists are mainly from drives and kick outs for what has been 3 pointers for many years. Our 3 point game is not what it was.

[kaji157]

This argument is not very accurate because per 48 minutes for Hill includes him playing SG when TP was in. I'd like to know those stats in games with TP out and him running the PG.

I's also say TP's assists are mainly from drives and kick outs for what has been 3 pointers for many years. Our 3 point game is not what it was.

Yeah, because Hill gets a lot of different kind of assists.. give me a break, Manu also shares court with TP and he handles twice the assists Hill handles.

For the last 9 games Hill averages 4.8 assists, is now Manu's fault? or no... he played with TP.

For his last 6 games (no TP) Hill is at 5.8 in 36 minutes. Parker averages 5.7 in 31 minutes (for the season).

Manu is at 4.7 in 27.7 mins for the season and 4.4 in 27.1 for the last 5.

So, Hill for the last five games, is still 0.1 behind Parker with 5 more on court minutes and 1.1 above Ginobili with 8.3 more minutes.

Again, Ginobili and Parker are counting on season averages which are harder to mantain and a larger sample size.

[Waps1980]

Cheers for the stats interesting to know.
Only thought TP would have limited him, Manu would also limit TP as they all do each other sharing the PG role.

[honestfool84]

no. no. NO.

[J_Paco]

The answer is, HELL NO!! Did you not see George Hill lay a massive egg last night? He's not ready at all to take over the PG duties on any team.

[romain.star]

at least try to be consistent when bashing TP...

The Spurs win 3 or 4 games in a row without TP and everybody realize that the team had no chemistry at all when T "ballhog" P was runing the show and that GHill needs to take the reins

The Spurs lose to the Magic and all of a sudden, the bashing stops... there are even some spurs fans who dare to say that TP is missed !!!

Anyway, the real problem is the frontcourt. A 33 years old TD won't make it by himself. To compete against top teams, the Spurs need one second skilled big man (Ian) full of energy (Ian) with fresh legs (Ian)

[Ibanezsr]

The answer is, HELL NO!! Did you not see George Hill lay a massive egg last night? He's not ready at all to take over the PG duties on any team.

Like TP has never egged it before right? How many times did we watch him choke up in the playoffs in his early years? What does parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer? Dude can't play defense and doesn't know how to share. Hill can spread the floor better with his outside shooting and his defense is stellar. If SA could trade TP for a good big man like Bosh or Bynum the team would be more of a championship contender next yr than they would if TP was kept.

[smeagol]

A thread that bashes Tony is full of Frenchies defending him.

A thread that bashes Manu is full of Argies defending him.

It never fails . . .

[kace]

A thread that bashes Tony is full of Frenchies defending him.

A thread that bashes Manu is full of Argies defending him.

It never fails . . .

a thread that bashes TP is full of Argies killing him or approving.
a thread that bashes manu is free from frenchies bashing him, when they're not even defending him.

that's a difference.

anyway, only two legit teams since he left, two losses. one against the cavs without their 2/3 best players, the other with a rout. it never fails.....

[romain.star]

A thread that bashes Tony is full of Frenchies defending him.

A thread that bashes Manu is full of Argies defending him.

It never fails . . .

Mhhhh.... not quite

As for me, I really don't care about nationalities. Parker is only my third favorite player behind Duncan and Manu (and used to be forth when Bowen was there).

I just think Parker is being treated unfairly by many fans. One or two bad game (while being injured all season long), and you will see 2 or 3 "Trade Parker ass" thread... Like Duncan and Manu, he is a spurs legend who heavily contributed to 3 rings and has earned the right to be respected by the fans. Nothing more, nothing less...

And be sure I'll be right there when Manu gets the same treatment

[Bartleby]

Anyway, the real problem is the frontcourt. A 33 years old TD won't make it by himself. To compete against top teams, the Spurs need one second skilled big man (Ian) full of energy (Ian) with fresh legs (Ian)

I wouldn't really call Ian "skilled" (yet).

[romain.star]

I wouldn't really call Ian "skilled" (yet).

well... let's say Ian got some talent that needs time (not garbage time Pop) to develop but from what i've seen, he'll be a solid NBA player... in SA or elsewhere

[spurtech09]

nope!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pauleta14]

Like TP has never egged it before right? How many times did we watch him choke up in the playoffs in his early years? What does parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer? Dude can't play defense and doesn't know how to share. Hill can spread the floor better with his outside shooting and his defense is stellar. If SA could trade TP for a good big man like Bosh or Bynum the team would be more of a championship contender next yr than they would if TP was kept.

:wow

GTFO !!!

You don't know shit about BB or Spurs history!

Your arguments are so absurd, that it's either due to a lack of knowledge/understanding , or just PURE HATE ...

PS/ Believe me or not, I don't care, but I'm not defending him because I'm french, I'd do the same for ANY of our players treated unfairly...

[jjktkk]

Like TP has never egged it before right? How many times did we watch him choke up in the playoffs in his early years? What does parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer? Dude can't play defense and doesn't know how to share. Hill can spread the floor better with his outside shooting and his defense is stellar. If SA could trade TP for a good big man like Bosh or Bynum the team would be more of a championship contender next yr than they would if TP was kept.

Your photo ID is right in line with your post here. You asked "What does Parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer"? The answer is helping the Spurs win 3 championships in 03, 05, and 07. Being selected as a NBA All Star 3 times. And being selected as the 07 NBA Finals MVP. I guess you were one of the 0.05% of Spurs fans who was disappointed when Pop let go of a couple of potential Parker replacements in Darius Washington and Blake Ahearn. :rolleyes

[Ibanezsr]

:wow

GTFO !!!

You don't know shit about BB or Spurs history!

Your arguments are so absurd, that it's either due to a lack of knowledge/understanding , or just PURE HATE ...

PS/ Believe me or not, I don't care, but I'm not defending him because I'm french, I'd do the same for ANY of our players treated unfairly...

Go back and watch his early playoff games and see how many times Parker got pulled... Speedy Claxton saved the day.. been a fan since 1989... long before TP came along.. I don't hate Parker at all though.. and could care less if he is French. Just think he isn't the greatest fit for SA at this point in time.. i think it's funny that you think I don't know shit about BB or Spurs history just because I said Parker choked in his early days.. the stats don't lie... either does the pine TP got back in the day for all his fuck ups in clutch playoff games..

[Ibanezsr]

Your photo ID is right in line with your post here. You asked "What does Parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer"? The answer is helping the Spurs win 3 championships in 03, 05, and 07. Being selected as a NBA All Star 3 times. And being selected as the 07 NBA Finals MVP. I guess you were one of the 0.05% of Spurs fans who was disappointed when Pop let go of a couple of potential Parker replacements in Darius Washington and Blake Ahearn. :rolleyes

Steve Kerr helped SA win a championship too... so did Elson and Rasho.. you gonna toot their horns too? I'm not saying Parker sucks but I am saying that he can be replaced... He's a tad overrated in my book. Don't forget TP was playing with TD and Gino... My retarded cousin that limps and can't count past 10 could have won the '07 Finals MVP against that shitty Cavs team.

[anakha]

I'm not saying Parker sucks


My retarded cousin that limps and can't count past 10 could have won the '07 Finals MVP against that shitty Cavs team.

[Pauleta14]

Go back and watch his early playoff games and see how many times Parker got pulled... Speedy Claxton saved the day.. been a fan since 1989... long before TP came along.. I don't hate Parker at all though.. and could care less if he is French. Just think he isn't the greatest fit for SA at this point in time.. i think it's funny that you think I don't know shit about BB or Spurs history just because I said Parker choked in his early days.. the stats don't lie... either does the pine TP got back in the day for all his fuck ups in clutch playoff games..

So what? a 21 YO TP playing against the best PG of that time?
Remember the finals last 6 games? TP was almost MVP after 3 games...
Yes he sucked the last 2 games (specialy the last quarters of the last 2 games), the nets adapted their game and he was often dble teamed!!
Speedey claxton was decent all year but no better that Tony... Don't re-write history!!!!
It's easier to perform when you(re not expected! And Speedy did a nice job... but don't tell me he is anywhere near the level/talent of Tony! He didn't even have half of Tony's "production" ...
and a couple of midrange jumpsot at the end of an game, (even a huge one) doesn't make erase what Tony did the whole year and during the PO...
He wasn't an allstar at that time, but was a big part of the championship run and always the 2nd or 3rd best scorer of the team!!!!
You were probably one of those who asked to start Speedy, then Beno ahead of Tony!!! :lol
What did they both do when they were given a starting job???

Did you at least watch the last season and saw what Tony is capable of when healthy?
This is the first year of his 9 years nba career that he doesn't add something to his game and is better than the previous year!
And we all know this is due to physcical/health pb... EVERY players know these/this kind of year(s)!

You say " the stats don't lie" and I agree!!!! you should whatch then again more closely!! It contradicts everything you say...

I could go on like that with each of your "arguments", but I don't have time and don't think you're worth spending more time answering.
You're the proof that following the spurs since 20 years isn't any "warranty" of understanding anything better than the "newcomers"...
Except if you're just blinded by your emotions/feelings towards Tony.
that the only logical reason I can find

[bigzak25]

if he's not racing, he's not worth a shit on the court.

upon his return, if he's got his wheels back, he'd be better to lead the 2nd unit and pop can use his injury as an excuse to bring him off the bench along with the fact that it would disrupt any chemistry the current starting 5 has going into the playoffs...

but i've lost faith in pop, so i'm not holding my breath.

[Pauleta14]

if he's not racing, he's not worth a shit on the court.

upon his return, if he's got his wheels back, he'd be better to lead the 2nd unit and pop can use his injury as an excuse to bring him off the bench along with the fact that it would disrupt any chemistry the current starting 5 has going into the playoffs...

but i've lost faith in pop, so i'm not holding my breath.


:wow

Do you really think you know better than Pop what's best for the team?
Would you do a better job than him if you were given the oportunity? :lol

[bigzak25]

:wow

Do you really think you know better than Pop what's best for the team?
Would you do a better job than him if you were given the oportunity? :lol

so you don't want fans to give their opinions on the team on this website?

you want the coach to be above reproach?

if so, you're in the wrong place.


i'm saying Pop's decisions over the past couple years leave a lot to be desired. you think i'm the lone wolf on this or something? :lol

every spurs fan sees it. bonner? wtf? sitting mason? wtf? dumping ratliff? wtf? alienating bruce? wtf?

somewhere along the line, Pop either forgot that big men win championships or he stopped caring.

Larry Brown, Pop's mentor, didn't forget.

Spurs got lucky that Blair was sitting there in the 2nd round or could you imagine how fucked this team would be right now?


i'm saying i don't trust his motivations anymore.

i'm saying Pop should put tony's ass on the bench and see if he is half the team player manu is.

i'm saying a broken tp, a tp without his legs under him, is not worth a damn.

i'm saying tp should be used in whatever way accentuates his strengths, i.e. fastbreak, straight to the cup offense, (which, imo, would be of more use to the team if he is doing that with the second unit) and hides his weaknesses, which would hypothetically be accomplished if he is guarding a second tier pg.

so what's your take? :wakeup

[ohmwrecker]

The short answer is obviously, no. The Spurs are in no way, shape or form a better team without Parker. Any argument otherwise is patently ridiculous. Anyone who says Parker's only strength is driving to the hoop for layups is not very astute and should be fervently ignored. Parker is a hard worker and has improved and added to his natural skills every year. He had a career year last year and, if not for a litany of injuries, probably would have continued to rise this year. You can place blame on Parker and Ginobili for playing all summer if you want, but nobody forced the Spurs to draft these guys, and it that same loyalty and work ethic that made these players essential to the Spurs title runs. You can keep your sour grapes, I'll take the trophies.

[smeagol]

a thread that bashes manu is free from frenchies bashing him, when they're not even defending him.

I've seen you diss Manu . . .

[Obstructed_View]

Go back and watch his early playoff games and see how many times Parker got pulled... Speedy Claxton saved the day.. been a fan since 1989... long before TP came along.. I don't hate Parker at all though.. and could care less if he is French. Just think he isn't the greatest fit for SA at this point in time.. i think it's funny that you think I don't know shit about BB or Spurs history just because I said Parker choked in his early days.. the stats don't lie... either does the pine TP got back in the day for all his fuck ups in clutch playoff games..

How many times did Parker get pulled? How many times did Speedy "save the day"?

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs have only played two "good" teams with Parker out...

They lost to a Cleveland team without their four best players, and got blown out by Orlando.

So I don't know why you'd want to bring TP off the bench in his return. This starting unit right now has good "chemistry" to beat bad teams. There aren't any bad teams in the playoffs.

[smeagol]

The Spurs have only played two "good" teams with Parker out...

They lost to a Cleveland team without their four best players, and got blown out by Orlando.

So I don't know why you'd want to bring TP off the bench in his return. This starting unit right now has good "chemistry" to beat bad teams. There aren't any bad teams in the playoffs.

Difficult to debate with that kind of logic. It goes without saying that I agree with you. As soon as TP is healthy, he will start.

The question is who goes back to the bench? Manu would be the number one choice, but what if he continues playing at a very high level?

I think this is a legit question . . .

[Ibanezsr]

So what? a 21 YO TP playing against the best PG of that time?
Remember the finals last 6 games? TP was almost MVP after 3 games...
Yes he sucked the last 2 games (specialy the last quarters of the last 2 games), the nets adapted their game and he was often dble teamed!!
Speedey claxton was decent all year but no better that Tony... Don't re-write history!!!!
It's easier to perform when you(re not expected! And Speedy did a nice job... but don't tell me he is anywhere near the level/talent of Tony! He didn't even have half of Tony's "production" ...
and a couple of midrange jumpsot at the end of an game, (even a huge one) doesn't make erase what Tony did the whole year and during the PO...
He wasn't an allstar at that time, but was a big part of the championship run and always the 2nd or 3rd best scorer of the team!!!!
You were probably one of those who asked to start Speedy, then Beno ahead of Tony!!! :lol
What did they both do when they were given a starting job???

Did you at least watch the last season and saw what Tony is capable of when healthy?
This is the first year of his 9 years nba career that he doesn't add something to his game and is better than the previous year!
And we all know this is due to physcical/health pb... EVERY players know these/this kind of year(s)!

You say " the stats don't lie" and I agree!!!! you should whatch then again more closely!! It contradicts everything you say...

I could go on like that with each of your "arguments", but I don't have time and don't think you're worth spending more time answering.
You're the proof that following the spurs since 20 years isn't any "warranty" of understanding anything better than the "newcomers"...
Except if you're just blinded by your emotions/feelings towards Tony.
that the only logical reason I can find

Take your tampon out and chillax. Again I am not stating Parker sucks. This whole thing started because someone commented on how George Hill laid an egg the other night and is not ready to handle the PG position. All I said was that Parker laid eggs in his early playoffs too. I think Hill has the ability to be an all around better player than TP because he has better outside shooting and plays better defense. He can spread the floor better which bodes well for players like Gino and Jefferson. In no way do I think Spurs would be better THIS YEAR without Parker but I do think that they would be better next yr if they let Hill, Gino and another back up PG (signing) and traded Parker for a legit big man like Bosh or Bynum... And from reading this board I am not the only one that thinks that. Your man love for TP is beyond frightening...

And those that state Parker had a career yr last yr... Gino was hurt and Duncan sucked half the yr... Of course he had a career yr.. The rest of the team sucked so Parker had all the shots...

[Pauleta14]

so you don't want fans to give their opinions on the team on this website?

you want the coach to be above reproach?

if so, you're in the wrong place.


i'm saying Pop's decisions over the past couple years leave a lot to be desired. you think i'm the lone wolf on this or something? :lol

every spurs fan sees it. bonner? wtf? sitting mason? wtf? dumping ratliff? wtf? alienating bruce? wtf?

somewhere along the line, Pop either forgot that big men win championships or he stopped caring.

Larry Brown, Pop's mentor, didn't forget.

Spurs got lucky that Blair was sitting there in the 2nd round or could you imagine how fucked this team would be right now?


i'm saying i don't trust his motivations anymore.

i'm saying Pop should put tony's ass on the bench and see if he is half the team player manu is.

i'm saying a broken tp, a tp without his legs under him, is not worth a damn.

i'm saying tp should be used in whatever way accentuates his strengths, i.e. fastbreak, straight to the cup offense, (which, imo, would be of more use to the team if he is doing that with the second unit) and hides his weaknesses, which would hypothetically be accomplished if he is guarding a second tier pg.

so what's your take? :wakeup


First of all, I agree with you, even if it's a no brainer, on the fact that we can discus about everything and everybody has the right to have an opinion... ;)
I just don't understand the lack of respect that some of you have for Pop.
I don't agree/understand many of his decisions too, I can get crazy sometimes during games too! (small ball... :lol)
But with retrospect, many of his decisions happened to be "explainable", if not understandable!!
For instance, concerning Theo Ratliff, the FO maybe wasn't sure of Blair's 1st year production/eclosion! So it was a good decision to take him as it was to release him, for progression of Blair (playing time) as well as Theo's "sake" because he wanted more playing time...
"Sitting Masson"? He is a "role player" and his "role" is to knock down 3s... whitch he didn't (for a long period), is it Pop's fault?
Any coach has the right in this situation to sit his player! At some point, you have to look at other options...

We all know Pop is "different" than the common coach, he has learned by himself as well as next to coaches that have opposite philosophies (Nelson brown) and he has "particular" habbits like trying crazy stuff during games...
But with that kind of person, you get the wrost AND the best!!
Look at what he has done (4 RINGS!!!) and what HE IS DOING GOOD TOO! like with Hill and Blair he is preparing the futur...
Who could have expect that RJ would be such a disapointment?
Who could have expect Tony to be THAT "cursed" this year?
The last two points are enough to change RADICALY our season AND your opinion of Pop!!!!

And once again, I'm not critisizing the fact that you give your opinion!
I'm just saying let's have some "stand back" discusions, things are never "black or white", you know what I mean...

And finaly, concerning Tony, if you think that he is only good at "fast breaks" and "straight to the cup offense"................:wow :lol

[mathbzh]

The rest of the team sucked so Parker had all the shots...

And Parker made 50% of these shots... that worth being noticed IMO.

If we could get Bosh for Parker with Hill being a capable PG, I think I would do it.
But when healthy, Parker belong to the short list of "unguardable" players...
Even if he could be a better all around player, I doubt Hill could ever do that (this is not a knock on him).

[barbacoataco]

This thread is ridiculous. The very reason the Spurs have been mediocre this year is that Parker has been less than 100%. That shows you how important he is to this team. A healthy Parker with his blazing speed makes the Spurs a contender.

[Brazil]

Difficult to debate with that kind of logic. It goes without saying that I agree with you. As soon as TP is healthy, he will start.

The question is who goes back to the bench? Manu would be the number one choice, but what if he continues playing at a very high level?

I think this is a legit question . . .

I agree starting or not Manu is a legit question ! Right now he is our best player, for the moment he is more valuable than TP for obvious reason but also because TP won't be 100% ready for the PO and he is obviously more valuable than the rest of the team. So I think it is logical to try to give your best player the more opportunities you can.

[jjktkk]

The short answer is obviously, no. The Spurs are in no way, shape or form a better team without Parker. Any argument otherwise is patently ridiculous. Anyone who says Parker's only strength is driving to the hoop for layups is not very astute and should be fervently ignored. Parker is a hard worker and has improved and added to his natural skills every year. He had a career year last year and, if not for a litany of injuries, probably would have continued to rise this year. You can place blame on Parker and Ginobili for playing all summer if you want, but nobody forced the Spurs to draft these guys, and it that same loyalty and work ethic that made these players essential to the Spurs title runs. You can keep your sour grapes, I'll take the trophies.

+1 :toast

[portnoy1]

This thread is ridiculous. The very reason the Spurs have been mediocre this year is that Parker has been less than 100%. That shows you how important he is to this team. A healthy Parker with his blazing speed makes the Spurs a contender.
Blazing speed does not make a team gel or make your teammates better does it? Last time I checked it takes a team to win a championship, even Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant had to come to terms with that. Is TP the as good as Jordan or Kobe? um....... I'll have to say no. There for TP needs to find ways of helping his team that does not include scoring and taking alot of shots. People Like to argue all the time how much TP would've helped when we lost to Cleveland or Orlando. Bottom line is that sometimes we forget the shots that TP takes away from others and also the points allowed on the other end. In the cleveland game Manu/GHill wouldnt have had a big enough games to keep us close in that one if Parker were taking their shots and In the magic (blowout anyway) RJ would not have scored 20pts or anywhere near that with TP on the floor. Besides Nelson has owned TP as of late.

[anakha]

Besides Nelson has owned TP as of late.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200901110SAS.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200812180ORL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200803250ORL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200711210SAS.html

1 game out of 4 in the past two seasons = ownage?

Please know what you're talking about next time, thanks.

[TPnumber1]

This thread is ridiculous. The very reason the Spurs have been mediocre this year is that Parker has been less than 100%. That shows you how important he is to this team. A healthy Parker with his blazing speed makes the Spurs a contender.

you are my hero :toast finally someone intelligent here