N.E. Journal of Medicine - doctors poll on HC reform

[coyotes_geek]

CG: I know, a poll. Apply whatever disclaimers you deem neccessary.

*****************

The Medicus Firm Physician Survey: Health Reforms Potential Impact on Physician Supply and Quality of Medical Care
Mar. – Apr. 2010

Key Findings from The Medicus Firm Survey

Physician Support of Health Reform in General
• 62.7% of physicians feel that health reform is needed but should be implemented in a more targeted, gradual way, as opposed to the sweeping overhaul that is in legislation.
• 28.7% of physicians are in favor of a public option.
• 3.6% of physicians prefer the “status quo” and feel that the U.S. health care system is best “as is.

Health Reform and Primary Care Physicians
• 46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.

Health Reform, Public Option, and Practice Revenue/Physician Income
• 41% of physicians feel that income and practice revenue will “decline or worsen dramatically” with a public option.
• 30% feel income will “decline or worsen somewhat” with a public option.
• 9% feel income will “improve somewhat” with a public option, and 0.8% feel income will “improve dramatically” with a public option.

Health Reform, Public Option, and Physician Supply
• 72% of physicians feel that a public option would have a negative impact on physician supply, with 45% feeling it will “decline or worsen dramatically” and 27% predicting it will “decline or worsen somewhat.
• 24% of physicians think they will try to retire early if a public option is implemented.
• 21% of physicians would try to leave medicine if a public option is implemented, even if not near retirement age at the time.

Health Reform and Recommending Medicine to Others as a Career
• 36% of physicians would not recommend medicine as a career, regardless of health reform.
• 27% would recommend medicine as a career but not if health reform passes.
• 25% of physicians would recommend medicine as a career regardless of health reform.
• 12% would not recommend medicine as a career now but feel that they would recommend it as a career if health reform passes

Source: The Medicus Firm “Physician Survey: Health Reform’s Impact on Physician Supply and Quality of Medical Care,”
The Medicus Firm, www.TheMedicusFirm.com

http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/physician-survey-health-reform-impact.aspx

[ElNono]

Some are interesting numbers, thanks for posting them.

[boutons_deux]

A key component of health care is the fees docs charges for services and tests.

If health care costs are to go down, then revenues for docs need to go down. No surprise above that they think a Medicare-for-all-public-option would reduce their income, as many of them refuse to handle Medicare patients now due to the reduced fees Medicare allows vs for-profit insurance.

One reason docs won't handle Medicare is the 1.5 employees (overhead) they have to carry to fight with for-profit insurance companies, fight the paperwork.

One key objective is standards-defined computer systems to automate interfacing with a unified/national public insurance system (rather than dealing with proprietary processing mazes for each different for-profit insurance company). A national health ID card and portable electronic health records are also critical to quality of care (avoids "doctor shopping") and reduced costs.

But I really don't think America has the competence and will to put together a national system. A high-tech company like Boeing can't even put together a border surveillance system with a budget of $1.5B.


If an independent doctor didn't need to cover the avg overhead $250K/year, then his costs and total costs could go down, and he could still pocket a top 10% revenue treating public option patients.

[DarrinS]

If this steaming turd of legislation passes, it would be interesting to see what happens to medical school enrollment. I would guess that you would see enrollment decline.

[clambake]

If this steaming turd of legislation passes, it would be interesting to see what happens to medical school enrollment. I would guess that you would see enrollment decline.

why?

because they would look for another way to fleece americans?

[EmptyMan]

Fleece away if it means I shall live to see another day!


Don't worry O'Connor, less doctors + millions of more people in front of you in line = good times.

[clambake]

Fleece away if it means I shall live to see another day!

thats up to your healthcare provider.

[coyotes_geek]

why?

because they would look for another way to fleece americans?

Call it whatever you want, but qualified people looking for greener pastures in other professions is not something to feel good about.

[clambake]

Call it whatever you want, but qualified people looking for greener pastures in other professions is not something to feel good about.

its a non-issue.

[coyotes_geek]

its a non-issue.

The doctors who were polled for this survey feel otherwise.

[clambake]

The doctors who were polled for this survey feel otherwise.

weed out the lame.

[TeyshaBlue]

CG: I know, a poll. Apply whatever disclaimers you deem neccessary.

*****************

The Medicus Firm Physician Survey: Health Reforms Potential Impact on Physician Supply and Quality of Medical Care
Mar. – Apr. 2010

Key Findings from The Medicus Firm Survey

Physician Support of Health Reform in General
• 62.7% of physicians feel that health reform is needed but should be implemented in a more targeted, gradual way, as opposed to the sweeping overhaul that is in legislation.
• 28.7% of physicians are in favor of a public option.
• 3.6% of physicians prefer the “status quo” and feel that the U.S. health care system is best “as is.

Health Reform and Primary Care Physicians
• 46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.

Health Reform, Public Option, and Practice Revenue/Physician Income
• 41% of physicians feel that income and practice revenue will “decline or worsen dramatically” with a public option.
• 30% feel income will “decline or worsen somewhat” with a public option.
• 9% feel income will “improve somewhat” with a public option, and 0.8% feel income will “improve dramatically” with a public option.

Health Reform, Public Option, and Physician Supply
• 72% of physicians feel that a public option would have a negative impact on physician supply, with 45% feeling it will “decline or worsen dramatically” and 27% predicting it will “decline or worsen somewhat.
• 24% of physicians think they will try to retire early if a public option is implemented.
• 21% of physicians would try to leave medicine if a public option is implemented, even if not near retirement age at the time.

Health Reform and Recommending Medicine to Others as a Career
• 36% of physicians would not recommend medicine as a career, regardless of health reform.
• 27% would recommend medicine as a career but not if health reform passes.
• 25% of physicians would recommend medicine as a career regardless of health reform.
• 12% would not recommend medicine as a career now but feel that they would recommend it as a career if health reform passes

Source: The Medicus Firm “Physician Survey: Health Reform’s Impact on Physician Supply and Quality of Medical Care,”
The Medicus Firm, www.TheMedicusFirm.com

http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/physician-survey-health-reform-impact.aspx

That is not a poll. It's a survey. They are two completely different animals. Do not treat this as a poll.

[clambake]

doctors being asked if they're worried about their bloated millions. lol

[coyotes_geek]

weed out the lame.

Not the lame. Just the qualified and capable who can make more money elsewhere.

[coyotes_geek]

That is not a poll. It's a survey. They are two completely different animals. Do not treat this as a poll.

My mistake.

[spurster]

Not the lame. Just the qualified and capable who can make more money elsewhere.

Make more money doing what? Someone better tell them what the job situation is really like in the US.

I predict the number of empty seats in medical schools to stay around zero no matter what.

[clambake]

someone else not buying the straw.

[coyotes_geek]

Make more money doing what? Someone better tell them what the job situation is really like in the US.

I predict the number of empty seats in medical schools to stay around zero no matter what.

There are plenty of jobs out there for those who are strong in math and science that don't involve having to put yourself in six figures worth of student loan debt before you make your first buck. Maybe you're right and a survey showing a high percentage of doctors that wouldn't recommend their profession to others isn't going to reflect itself in the number of people applying to medical school. In fact I certainly hope you're right. We need more doctors, not less. That's why it's important to be mindful of what the effects of policy decisions are going to be in terms of attracting qualified people to the field.

[baseline bum]

There's not good money out there right now. I have a friend with a Ph D in EE from a top university and 20+ years experience in algorithm design and software engineering who has been unemployed for a year and a half because he's not interested in working for what people coming out of school with BSs were getting just a few years ago. He's got pretty serious money saved up and doesn't spend a lot though.

[ploto]

If this steaming turd of legislation passes, it would be interesting to see what happens to medical school enrollment. I would guess that you would see enrollment decline.

Enrollment will not decline. Medical schools turn away applicants by the thousands every year.


For the 2009-2010 entering class, U.S. medical schools received 562,694 applications from 42,269 applicants...

The 2009-2010 entering class of 18,390 students...

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/charts1982to2010.pdf

[rjv]

i tend to agree that the health profession will be fine. it is still one of the most stable professsions around.

[boutons_deux]

"U.S. medical schools received 562,694 applications from 42,269 applicants"

Artificially restricting access to the medical "guild" is a way of keeping doctors' incomes inflated, reducing patient choice, increasing patients' waiting times, and above all shielding docs from competition among themselves.

How else to explain a severe doctor shortage when the median salary ranges from $125K to $250K?

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/People_with_Doctor_of_Medicine_(MD)_Degrees/Salary

And of course with a too-small number of med schools, the med schools can jack their tuitions through the roof, burdening graduates with $100K+ debt as they head into residency and specialty training, which adds more debt.

[ploto]

And of course with a too-small number of med schools, the med schools can jack their tuitions through the roof, burdening graduates with $100K+ debt as they head into residency and specialty training, which adds more debt.

Actually, tuition to medical school in Texas is not that high for in-state residents (about $12,000 per year right now). Those who jack up a $100,000 debt do so because they borrow money to live off.

[boutons_deux]

"According to a 2007 study by McKinsey&Company, physician compensation bumps up health care spending in America by $58 billion annually,on average, because U.S. doctors make twice as much as their OECD peers. And even the poorest in specializations like radiology and surgery routinely rake in around $400,000 annually.

Doctors—and many Republicans—constantly carp about the costs of "defensive medicine" because it forces providers to perform unnecessary procedures and tests to insulate them from potential lawsuits. But excessive physician salaries contribute nearly three times more to wasteful health care spending than the $20 billion or so that defensive medicine does."

" the AMA along with other industry organizations until recently had issued dire warnings of an impending physician "glut" (whatever that means beyond depressing member wages), even convincing Congress to limit the number of residencies it funds to about 100,000 a year."

http://reason.com/archives/2009/08/27/the-evil-mongering-of-the-amer

[DarrinS]

Actually, tuition to medical school in Texas is not that high for in-state residents (about $12,000 per year right now). Those who jack up a $100,000 debt do so because they borrow money to live off.


You almost have to. Med school is a full-time job. It's not like getting some P.O.S. liberal arts degree, where you can graduate while your bloodstream is full of bong resin and malted hopps.

[DarrinS]

There's not good money out there right now. I have a friend with a Ph D in EE from a top university and 20+ years experience in algorithm design and software engineering who has been unemployed for a year and a half because he's not interested in working for what people coming out of school with BSs were getting just a few years ago. He's got pretty serious money saved up and doesn't spend a lot though.


So, basically, he made a choice.

[baseline bum]

So, basically, he made a choice.

What the fuck is your point? Mine is these doctors aren't going to find big money leaving to other fields.

[Wild Cobra]

But excessive physician salaries contribute nearly three times more to wasteful health care spending than the $20 billion or so that defensive medicine does."

Ever stop to think that the excessive salaries are compounded by the time of the extra, normally unnecessary, procedures?

I am one that doesn't believe they make too much. However, don't forget that the unnecessary procedures increase the doctor's time for a patient, thus, the cost.

[Wild Cobra]

You almost have to. Med school is a full-time job. It's not like getting some P.O.S. liberal arts degree, where you can graduate while your bloodstream is full of bong resin and malted hopps.
Any good curriculum is like a full time job, and then some. Not only do you spend the several hours of class and lab time, but then there is all the studying and homework involved.

Who has time to work, if going to any good college and course full time?