Dirk vs Kobe

[crgassoc]

Is this accurate? Found it on bleacher report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/364545-is-dallas-in-position-to-get-the-bling

Now, for all those who say Dirk "chokes" in the playoffs this will prove you wrong

Kobe career playoff stats 25ppg 5.0rpg 4.7apg 1.4spg 0.7bpg FG 44.7% FT 81% 2.9 TO's

*Dirk career playoff stats 25.5ppg 11rpg 2.6apg 1.2spg 1.0bpg FG 45.4% FT 88% 2.1 TO's

[IronMexican]

The only time I had ever seen Dirk play bad was in 2007.

[Phillip]

Dirk has always been one to step it up in the playoffs. He shot poorly in the series' against Houston and Phoenix in 2005, but made up for it with fantastic rebounding, and setting up others like JET and Howard with easy buckets by using all the attention he was drawing. And the series against GS is massively overrated, as they were all over Dirk, and he was doing exactly what he should have been doing (passing it to the open man when getting doubled/tripled). Unfortunately, Terry and Stack played like absolute garbage, Harris was getting raped by B-Diddy, and while Howard was a 1st quarter assassin, he was complete garbage for the rest of the game, so Dirk pretty much was forced to shoot a bunch of forced, bad shots. Can't do it all yourself. Not even Jordan could (see Pistons series)

[IronMexican]

As far as the playoffs go.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

rofl this thread opened up quite the can of worms

[badfish22]

This will be a good thread

[Findog]

Dirk's rep as a choker is massively overrated, but the bottom line is that Kobe has led his team to a title as a #1 guy and Dirk has not. Of course, Dirk has never had a #2 as good as Gasol, but that's another thread...

[Phillip]

looking at that 06-07 team, i still have no idea how those Mavericks won 67 games. they were clearly an inferior team in comparison to the two previous teams, as well as this years team (even before the Butler/Haywood trade).

[Findog]

This will be a good thread

It will be full of reasoned commentary and sober analysis of the relative merits of both players.

[Findog]

looking at that 06-07 team, i still have no idea how those Mavericks won 67 games. they were clearly an inferior team in comparison to the two previous teams, as well as this years team (even before the Butler/Haywood trade).

This year's team before the trade wasn't that good. The 07 Mavericks were quite dominant, they just choked against their own personal kryptonite.

[DAF86]

I don't think Nowitzki is a choker, the thing is that in the two most memorable (or the ones that will be remember longer) playoff series he has played he shot less than 40% from the field (vs Miami in the finals, and vs the Warriors in arguably the biggest upset ever of the NBA)

[Phillip]

This year's team before the trade wasn't that good. The 07 Mavericks were quite dominant, they just choked against their own personal kryptonite.

I think they just were more fortunate than anything. It's rare that a team gets that fortunate, but that team was one exception. Plus the league was pretty weak that year. A lot weaker than it was both the year before and the year after.

[Muser]

Dirk choked once, and sadly that is what he will be remembered for, unless he wins a ring.

[Findog]

I think they just were more fortunate than anything. It's rare that a team gets that fortunate, but that team was one exception. Plus the league was pretty weak that year. A lot weaker than it was both the year before and the year after.

They had a PD of 7.2. This year's Cavs have a PD of 7.3. That's pretty dominant. That's a championship-caliber PD.

[Phillip]

They had a PD of 7.2. This year's Cavs have a PD of 7.3. That's pretty dominant. That's a championship-caliber PD.

Again, in a pretty weak year in which they wasted all their focus on the regular season instead of the playoffs. They played at a high level, but again, teams across the league were pretty weak that year too.

[Findog]

Again, in a pretty weak year in which they wasted all their focus on the regular season instead of the playoffs. They played at a high level, but again, teams across the league were pretty weak that year too.

Going back to your original point, they're still better than this year's pre-trade Mavs. Who knows what would've happened if they had drawn the Clippers in the first round instead of the Warriors? We'll never know, but I'd take that team over this year's, pre and post-trade.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

IMO, Dirk isn't a choker as much as he simply is not a true franchise player. KG had a pretty sub-par finals in 2008, the only difference is he had another semi-franchise player (Pierce) to pick up the slack.

[badfish22]

If it wasn't for the Miami debacle, Dirk would be remembered for the great series he had against the Spurs and the Suns to even get to the finals. It blows that he will always be thought of as a playoff choker by the casual fan.

[Muser]

Wish the Spurs had Dirk..that would be so beasty.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And yeah, the 2005-2007 era was maybe the weakest 3 year era ever.

[Findog]

IMO, Dirk isn't a choker as much as he simply is not a true franchise player. KG had a pretty sub-par finals in 2008, the only difference is he had another semi-franchise player (Pierce) to pick up the slack.

Dirk's a franchise player. At any given time, there's about 8-12 of them in the League. Just because he didn't win a title (as of this writing) doesn't mean he's not one. He came pretty damn close in 2006 with a good but not great supporting.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Dirk's a franchise player. At any given time, there's about 8-12 of them in the League. Just because he didn't win a title (as of this writing) doesn't mean he's not one. He came pretty damn close in 2006 with a good but not great supporting.


You've said multiple times on this site he's a 1.5 and not a 1.

[Findog]

You've said multiple times on this site he's a 1.5 and not a 1.

If you want to restrict the definition of "franchise player" to a pure 1.0, then that leaves only LeBron, Kobe and Wade. I think you can a win a title with a few more guys as your best player besides them.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If you want to restrict the definition of "franchise player" to a pure 1.0, then that leaves only LeBron, Kobe and Wade. I think you can a win a title with a few more guys as your best player besides them.


That's my view of franchise player. I guess in this case it's just differing views. If your view is someone capable of being the #1 option on a championship team given the right supporting cast then yes, Dirk is a franchise player.

[Findog]

That's my view of franchise player. I guess in this case it's just differing views. If your view is someone capable of being the #1 option on a championship team given the right supporting cast then yes, Dirk is a franchise player.

Agreed.

[sonic21]

it's hard to win a ring when your 2nd option choked. See josh howard, 2008 gasol, mo williams...

[badfish22]

it's hard to win a ring when your 2nd option choked. See josh howard, 2008 gasol, mo williams...

Josh Howard has made maybe one clutch play in his entire life. Thats what some people were missing when they called Josh for Butler even close to lateral. Butler is so much mentally stronger than J-Ho its crazy to even discuss it.

[DPG21920]

If it wasn't for the Miami debacle, Dirk would be remembered for the great series he had against the Spurs and the Suns to even get to the finals. It blows that he will always be thought of as a playoff choker by the casual fan.

You can't completely disregard that or the Warriors debacle. Sure, there is certainly more than meets they eye, but you can't just disregard those things.


If you want to restrict the definition of "franchise player" to a pure 1.0, then that leaves only LeBron, Kobe and Wade. I think you can a win a title with a few more guys as your best player besides them.

You forgot Duncan, unless you are strictly talking this year only.

[Phillip]

Going back to your original point, they're still better than this year's pre-trade Mavs. Who knows what would've happened if they had drawn the Clippers in the first round instead of the Warriors? We'll never know, but I'd take that team over this year's, pre and post-trade.

Maybe I should have re-phrased that. Pre-trade 09-10 Mavs weren't better, but were more talented and balanced definitely.

Post-trade though??? You gotta be joking. This Mavericks team would kick the living shit out of those Warriors, no questions about it. This team is FAR superior to that team mentally, talentwise, and ESPECIALLY IQ-wise. What was sad about that team, was that Deaven George was probably the 6th or 7th best player on that squad (Dirk, Terry, Howard, Stack, Harris, and Dampier being the only players clearly superior, and aside from Dirk, that team had such low IQ, its not even funny, which is why Avery had to basically call every play, unlike with the Mavs now). That's how badly they lacked talent. Even the biggest of Mavs fans were afraid that a big upset could occur because of the bizzare matchup problems. I would put money on it that the Mavericks squad right now would dispatch those Mavericks in 5 games if they could play a 7 game series.

[badfish22]

You've said multiple times on this site he's a 1.5 and not a 1.

You're just mad that Nash had more fun with Dirk than he has with Hill :lol :toast

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

There are obviously a select amount of these guys but imo a true franchise player is someone capable of winning regular season MVP and finals MVP in the same year. When you look at the list of players who have done this it's pretty small.

[badfish22]

You can't completely disregard that or the Warriors debacle. Sure, there is certainly more than meets they eye, but you can't just disregard those things.

I was talking just his 2006 playoff run. He was phenomenal up until Miami where he had a few poor games but still had a decent series.

[Findog]

You forgot Duncan, unless you are strictly talking this year only.

Duncan in his prime was easily a 1.0. Nowadays, he's more of a 1.5. If the Spurs had a bit stronger supporting cast, he could win a ring.

[badfish22]

There are obviously a select amount of these guys but imo a true franchise player is someone capable of winning regular season MVP and finals MVP in the same year. When you look at the list of players who have done this it's pretty small.

My definition of a "franchise player" is a player that you can build a successful franchise around. And while the Mavs never won it all, they have had success with Dirk as the main guy for almost a decade now.

[Phillip]

And yeah, the 2005-2007 era was maybe the weakest 3 year era ever.

I think 2005 and 2006 were pretty solid years for the NBA. Not real top heavy, as everyone knew it was mainly between San Antonio, Detroit, and Dallas in 06 for whomever would win it all. Phoenix and Miami had good teams, and then pretty much anyone in the West were teams that people thought of as being dark horses to get hot and suprise people, like Houston, Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, Clippers, Lakers, etc...

That Spurs team that lost to the Mavs IMO was better than any of the other Spurs teams that won championships, they just unfortunately ran into a bad matchup with the Mavs who were also a pretty damn good squad. I'm not saying that to try to act like the Mavs are superior to the Spurs or something. They just got unfortunate to have to play such a tough series so early, and the series was just a few plays away from being either the Mavs in 5 or the Spurs in 5. Thats how tightly contested it was. But that Spurs team was beastly.

[Phillip]

That's my view of franchise player. I guess in this case it's just differing views. If your view is someone capable of being the #1 option on a championship team given the right supporting cast then yes, Dirk is a franchise player.

You could say that about every single great player. You have to have the right mix of players to win a championship. You can't just give Jordan a team of 9 other Mark Madsens and say he will win a championship regardless. You have to have a great balance all around no matter what.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think 2005 and 2006 were pretty solid years for the NBA. Not real top heavy, as everyone knew it was mainly between San Antonio, Detroit, and Dallas in 06 for whomever would win it all. Phoenix and Miami had good teams, and then pretty much anyone in the West were teams that people thought of as being dark horses to get hot and suprise people, like Houston, Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, Clippers, Lakers, etc...

That Spurs team that lost to the Mavs IMO was better than any of the other Spurs teams that won championships, they just unfortunately ran into a bad matchup with the Mavs who were also a pretty damn good squad. I'm not saying that to try to act like the Mavs are superior to the Spurs or something. They just got unfortunate to have to play such a tough series so early, and the series was just a few plays away from being either the Mavs in 5 or the Spurs in 5. Thats how tightly contested it was. But that Spurs team was beastly.


It obviously wasn't between Dallas Detroit and San Antonio. 2006 was weak for that reason. The main contenders were so weak that the Heat were able to limp into the playoffs and peak at the right time. The Suns came within 2 games of the NBA finals without their leading scorer. The fuckin Clippers were a fluky Raja Bell 3 away from the Western Conference finals. I maybe phrased it wrong, the league wasn't weak as a whole from 2005-2007 but the top of the league was compared to other years. The Pistons eventually blew up their team because they were no longer contenders as the top of the league was getting better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That Spurs team that lost to the Mavs IMO was better than any of the other Spurs teams that won championships


If they were all healthy then yeah, but if they were all healthy they probably win a championship. Duncan had that foot injury and Ginobili had all kinds of injuries that year and never returned to 2005 form.

[Killakobe81]

IMO, Dirk isn't a choker as much as he simply is not a true franchise player. KG had a pretty sub-par finals in 2008, the only difference is he had another semi-franchise player (Pierce) to pick up the slack.

Great point. Even when Wade won his he had alonzo, Shaq and Payton (past their primes i admit) HOF'ers to make key plays ....

dirk's key guys have been streaky players especially as "clutch" players: stack, Jet, kidd are Howard especially can be great but when their shot is off only kidd still makes a a significant impact ...

i think dirk would be best in KG's role (part of a BIG 3) or as the secondary start a la Gasol. I AM NOT saying he is not BETTEr than Pau ...but in Pau's role Dirk would be even more of a beast ...

[TheGreatest23]

if dirk wants to win a ring, he needs to join another team as the #2 best player like gasol did. ;)

Bow down to the king, bitches.

[monosylab1k]

If they were all healthy then yeah, but if they were all healthy they probably win a championship. Duncan had that foot injury and Ginobili had all kinds of injuries that year and never returned to 2005 form.

lame. tbh if you're out there on the court playing, you can take the injury excuse and shove it up your ass.

Dirk played against GS dealing with bone spurs. Nobody is here making excuses for him in that series.

[monosylab1k]

and unfortunately I feel Dirk has already proven he isn't capable of leading a team to a championship. he choked away the 06 Finals. end of story.

tell me all about that fadeaway over shaq. then shove it up your ass. Dirk's choking came well before game 5 or 6. it came in game 3, when the team was about to go up 3-0 in the series, and instead of stepping on Miami's throat and ending the series right there, Dirk (along with the rest of the team) got scared, played scared, and let the Heat back into the series.

I feel strongly that if the Mavs are ever back in that position, the same thing will happen again. They just don't have the killer instinct to do it. Even after this trade I feel that way.

But I hope like hell Dirk proves me wrong, and I'll continue to expect something which I don't believe has a chance in hell of happening.

[mavsfan1000]

Yep no doubt Dirk needs to fix his reputation as a choker. But maybe he can prove the doubters wrong now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lame. tbh if you're out there on the court playing, you can take the injury excuse and shove it up your ass.

Dirk played against GS dealing with bone spurs. Nobody is here making excuses for him in that series.


Not making excuses. Simply saying that injuries were the reason the 2006 Spurs weren't as good as the 2005 or 2007 Spurs.

[Phillip]

It obviously wasn't between Dallas Detroit and San Antonio. 2006 was weak for that reason. The main contenders were so weak that the Heat were able to limp into the playoffs and peak at the right time. The Suns came within 2 games of the NBA finals without their leading scorer. The fuckin Clippers were a fluky Raja Bell 3 away from the Western Conference finals. I maybe phrased it wrong, the league wasn't weak as a whole from 2005-2007 but the top of the league was compared to other years. The Pistons eventually blew up their team because they were no longer contenders as the top of the league was getting better.

I can definitely agree with you about the top heaviness of the league. But IMO, 2005 & 2006 was a hell of a lot stronger than it was in 2007.

[cobbler]

Dirk's a franchise player. At any given time, there's about 8-12 of them in the League. Just because he didn't win a title (as of this writing) doesn't mean he's not one. He came pretty damn close in 2006 with a good but not great supporting.

What does a supporting cast have to do with anything? Dirk is the #1 guy and didn't deliver a championship. He's a failure as a #1.

[Phillip]

i think dirk would be best in KG's role (part of a BIG 3) or as the secondary start a la Gasol. I AM NOT saying he is not BETTEr than Pau ...but in Pau's role Dirk would be even more of a beast ...

because he is better than Pau, you fucking idiot.

[mogrovejo]

I'd take Dirk over Kobe. Similar quality, so I'd go with size.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I can definitely agree with you about the top heaviness of the league. But IMO, 2005 & 2006 was a hell of a lot stronger than it was in 2007.


I'll agree there, the general weakness contenders had bottomed out in 2007 (hence why no one watched the finals, it was terrible basketball), after that several players who had been wasting away on 30 win teams got traded to other teams and made them strong contenders.

[Phillip]

What does a supporting cast have to do with anything? Dirk is the #1 guy and didn't deliver a championship. He's a failure as a #1.

rofl

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What does a supporting cast have to do with anything? Dirk is the #1 guy and didn't deliver a championship. He's a failure as a #1.


If Dirk had Paul Pierce to pick up the slack like he did when KG needed him to then they would have won in 2006. That's what Findog was trying to say.

[cobbler]

If Dirk had Paul Pierce to pick up the slack like he did when KG needed him to then they would have won in 2006. That's what Findog was trying to say.

I know... Just sarcasticly repeating one of the rants about how Kobe wasn't shit as a #1 because he couldn't take Smush and company past round 1. It's funny how the criteria and observations change when it's "your" guy under the microscope.

I have a lot of respect for Dirk. :toast

[Findog]

What does a supporting cast have to do with anything?

Nothing at all, which is why Kobe led the Lakers to the championship in 2005, 2006 and 2007. :rolleyes

[Findog]

I know... Just sarcasticly repeating one of the rants about how Kobe wasn't shit as a #1 because he couldn't take Smush and company past round 1. It's funny how the criteria and observations change when it's "your" guy under the microscope.

I have a lot of respect for Dirk. :toast

Ah, I see, you were being sarcastic.

[Ghazi]

and unfortunately I feel Dirk has already proven he isn't capable of leading a team to a championship. he choked away the 06 Finals. end of story.

tell me all about that fadeaway over shaq. then shove it up your ass. Dirk's choking came well before game 5 or 6. it came in game 3, when the team was about to go up 3-0 in the series, and instead of stepping on Miami's throat and ending the series right there, Dirk (along with the rest of the team) got scared, played scared, and let the Heat back into the series.

I feel strongly that if the Mavs are ever back in that position, the same thing will happen again. They just don't have the killer instinct to do it. Even after this trade I feel that way.

But I hope like hell Dirk proves me wrong, and I'll continue to expect something which I don't believe has a chance in hell of happening.

How is that proof that Dirk can't lead a team to a championship? By that logic Kobe proved in Game 4 of the 2008 Finals he was incapable of leading a team to a championship... only to do so a year later.

Mavs were robbed in 2006, end of story. Nobody's talking about "choke" if not for the slanted officiating.

[ChrisRichards]

Dirk has always been unfortunate with his supporting cast. He never had a veteran championship caliber floor general like Fisher, nor a Top 10 player sidekick like Gasol and a legit 20 and 10 seven footer like Bynum.

[Ghazi]

Dirk has always been unfortunate with his supporting cast. He never had a veteran championship caliber floor general like Fisher, nor a Top 10 player sidekick like Gasol and a legit 20 and 10 seven footer like Bynum.

Kidd says hi.

PG position has always been fine for Dirk.

[ChrisRichards]

Kidd says hi.

PG position has always been fine for Dirk.
Kidd never won a championship.:nope

[SomeCallMeTim]

Kidd never won a championship.:nope

Q: What makes a championship-caliber PG?

A: A PG who wins a championship.

Ergo, Fisher is a championship-caliber PG; Kidd is not.

Therefore, Fisher >>> Kidd.

Circular reasoning at its finest.

[peteee]

Yeah Dirk vs. Kobe, great contest in general slant. It gotta arise a lot of screams to compare the best two shooting guards in NBA. Undoubtedly Dirk and Kobe are the best guys at this position, with Durant counted as a SF and D-Wade considered a whining hussy bitch.

[monosylab1k]

How is that proof that Dirk can't lead a team to a championship? By that logic Kobe proved in Game 4 of the 2008 Finals he was incapable of leading a team to a championship... only to do so a year later.

Mavs were robbed in 2006, end of story. Nobody's talking about "choke" if not for the slanted officiating.

the Lakers never had a death grip on the series. You're fucking retarded if you think Kobe getting beat by a better team is anything like Dirk choking against a far inferior team.

[cobbler]

Q: What makes a championship-caliber PG?

A: A PG who wins a championship.

Ergo, Fisher is a championship-caliber PG; Kidd is not.

Therefore, Fisher >>> Kidd.

Circular reasoning at its finest.

ChrisRichards has mastered illogical circular reasoning. Nevermind that Kidd is a shoe in for the HOF and Fisher could not even sniff the door. Reality is secondary in his reasoning skills. Right behind lying.

[ChrisRichards]

Q: What makes a championship-caliber PG?

A: A PG who wins a championship.

Ergo, Fisher is a championship-caliber PG; Kidd is not.

Therefore, Fisher >>> Kidd.

Circular reasoning at its finest.

Fishers clutch shooting and leadership has made the Lakers better and alas a Champion. Kidd is the better individual player, but it does'nt mean he's as instrumental as Fisher in clutch situations.

[ChrisRichards]

ChrisRichards has mastered illogical circular reasoning. Nevermind that Kidd is a shoe in for the HOF and Fisher could not even sniff the door. Reality is secondary in his reasoning skills. Right behind lying.
You're a dumbass at best.

"37%>48%


Regular season stats>Playoff stats"

-Cock Cobbler 03/12/2010

[Ghazi]

the Lakers never had a death grip on the series. You're fucking retarded if you think Kobe getting beat by a better team is anything like Dirk choking against a far inferior team.

we're just talking about one game samples here not the entire series... Dirk's choke in Game 3 isn't much worse than Kobe's choke in Game 4... also the Celtics lacked a player as dynamic as D-Whistle.

The Celtics were the better team therefore won the series though... but we're not talking about Game 3 if J-Ho makes FT's down the stretch of Game 5, Salvatore doesn't blow his cursed whistle, Dirks teammates dont shoot 33% in Game 6... a few bounces of the ball go different or if the refs call it less lopsided and Game 3 is forgotten in the pages of time.
JMHO

[Ghazi]

what holds dirk back from winning a title in most years as best player on team:

A. marginal defensive impact and playmaking abilities-low assist numbers, not a good perimeter defender or interior defender
B. his rosters have been good, but not great-has really never played next to an all-NBA caliber teammate in his prime
C. theres better players- assuming he had an equal supporting cast to a guy like lebron or kobe, kobe/lebrons team would win the series. in a league where superstars reign supreme, its not enough just to be a top 5 player in the leaggue... you have to be a top 2 player in the league and dirk isnt that. of course there are exceptions to this though ('04 Pistons, '08 Celtics) but generally speaking.

but I wouldnt throw in lack of killer instinct here... it could very well be that dirk DOES have the killer instinct, just not the supreme talent required to carry a team to a title.

[cobbler]

You're a dumbass at best.

"37%>48%


Regular season stats>Playoff stats"

-I suck Cobblers Cock regularly 03/12/2010

Thank you for proving my point. You made up those numbers and in your circular logic tried to attribute the above fabricated comment to me. An outright lie. You ChrisRichards are a piece of shit liar at best. And everyone here knows it. Fixed it again for ya!

[Ghazi]

this is a very tough time to win a title in the league... having to go through kobe AND lebron both with very good rosters and home court is extremely difficult. what made 2005-2007 a soft time in the NBA was Kobe/Lebron/KG being stranded on weak rosters, and a slew of next generation superstars hadn't completely emerged yet (Roy/CpWhistle/Deron/Durant/Melo)...

[ChrisRichards]

Thank you for proving my point. You made up those numbers and in your circular logic tried to attribute the above fabricated comment to me. An outright lie. You ChrisRichards are a piece of shit liar at best. And everyone here knows it. Fixed it again for ya!
I dont have to make up a story to prove your stupidity at its highest level. You dug yourself a big hole, there's no way you can recover from that. EVER. Now go ahead put your Kobe jersey, look at a mirror and touch yourself.


"37%>48%

Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"


-Cock Cobbler 03/12/10



:rollin

[ChrisRichards]

what holds dirk back from winning a title in most years as best player on team:

A. marginal defensive impact and playmaking abilities-low assist numbers, not a good perimeter defender or interior defender
B. his rosters have been good, but not great-has really never played next to an all-NBA caliber teammate in his prime
C. theres better players- assuming he had an equal supporting cast to a guy like lebron or kobe, kobe/lebrons team would win the series. in a league where superstars reign supreme, its not enough just to be a top 5 player in the leaggue... you have to be a top 2 player in the league and dirk isnt that. of course there are exceptions to this though ('04 Pistons, '08 Celtics) but generally speaking.

but I wouldnt throw in lack of killer instinct here... it could very well be that dirk DOES have the killer instinct, just not the supreme talent required to carry a team to a title.
Well said.

[cobbler]

I dont have to make up a story to prove your stupidity at its highest level. You dug yourself a big hole, there's no way you can recover from that. EVER. Now go ahead put your Kobe jersey, look at a mirror and touch yourself.


"37%>48%

Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"


-Cock Cobbler 03/12/10



:rollin

Ok smartass.... Let's see you prove that I made those comments and you didn't make them up.

You show me where I said that and I will send you 1,000.00 cash and never post on this board again. You are quoting me with your personal slam on my screename as saying:

"37%>48%"
"Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"

Show me exactly where I said that and you can cash in and I'll be gone.

Time to put up or STFU.

But we know you can't... so here comes another BS lie or some semantic backpeddling.

[Killakobe81]

because he is better than Pau, you fucking idiot.

ISnt that what I said or can you NOT FREAKING read ...

Gosh the intelligence level on this board...I give your player a compliment defend him as NOT a choker and this is the sophmoric post I get.

Enjoy the asswhippin come playoff time ....GENIUS!!!

[ChrisRichards]

You know that thread, so pull it up, prove your innocence and give me my cash money:rollin

[ChrisRichards]

Cockbbler, just answer the question since I know you're going to wuss out and not pull that thread. Was Ariza a better and much more valuable shooter for the Lakers last year than Artest with the Lakers this season


I know what's going to be your answer, and eitherway you're screwed :lol

[cobbler]

You know that thread, so pull it up, prove your innocence and give me my cash money:rollin

Nice try... show me where i said it. Come on liar. You have no problem dissing me and attributing a quote to me with your made up words... so show me and cash in.

You cant. Because you are as i posted earlier... at best... a liar.

Please.... show us all where I typed those comments! :lol

[ChrisRichards]

"37%>48%

Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"


-Cock Cobbler 03/12/10

[cobbler]

Cockbbler, just answer the question since I know you're going to wuss out and not pull that thread. Was Ariza a better and much more valuable shooter for the Lakers last year than Artest with the Lakers this season


I know what's going to be your answer, and eitherway you're screwed :lol

Right on cue! Backpeddling... Nothing i said in the thread had anything to do with value as a shooter. Its was completely confined to 3 pt shooting overall and during the season. Trevor was more valuable ONLY in the playoffs where he shot 3 pointers at a % he never did before or since. Since Artest hasn't played in the playoffs for the Lakers then lets compare apples to apples. During the regular season, Artest is a more valuable 3pt shooter than Trevor was last year. Absolutely! And the numbers prove it.

That was not the argument or the posts. I showed bostonguy that Artest was shooting better FROM 3pt range than Ariza. I showed there lifetime averages. You asked to compare Artest this year to Ariza last year and I proved that he's shooting better FROM 3pt range this year than Ariza did last year. It's all there.

Now back to the the point here. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID:

"37%>48%"
"Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"

It was not said by anybody but YOU. And you attributed it to me.

You are a liar. It's that simple.

[cobbler]

"37%>48%

Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"


-Cock Cobbler 03/12/10

Apparently you cannot comprehend what is an actual quote and one you make up. Kind of explains all the BS you spew. You simply don't know any better. :lmao

I mean really... a thousand dollars and me disappearing... and you cannot produce. Go figure! :lol

[ChrisRichards]

Trevor was more valuable ONLY in the playoffs where he shot 3 pointers. Artest is a more valuable 3pt shooter than Trevor was last year..

So. You agree that offensively & shooting wise Ariza for the Lakers last season> Artest with the Lakers this season?

Please say YES :lol



"37%>48%"
"Regular Season stats>Playoff Stats"

:lol

[cobbler]

So. You agree that offensively & shooting wise Ariza for the Lakers last season> Artest with the Lakers this season?

Please say YES :lol


:lol

I don't have any need to answer that as it has NOTHING to do with our argument as to what I said in the other thread and what you supposedly quoted me as saying.

Again... show me in the other thread... the comment where I said it. Please just do so and you will be 1 thousand dollars richer and i'll be gone. Point it out in the thread and not with one of your made up delusional quotes here.

You cannot and therfore just as stated by several in this thread... you use your circular logic and outright lies too cover your foolishness.

It's a simple concept even a retard like you should be able to grasp.

Show me the quote in the thread where i said what you attributed to me or admit you made it up.

You can't and you won't. And that's why you are a piece of shit liar.

[ChrisRichards]

Answer the question :lol

[cobbler]

Enough of you... Thanks for proving that you lied, got called on it, and then refused to put up any proof in your defense.

You are not even man enough to admit your mistake. You truly are pathetic.

Thanks for the amusement POSL.

[ChrisRichards]

Enough of you... Thanks for proving that you lied, got called on it, and then refused to put up any proof in your defense.

You are not even man enough to admit your mistake. You truly are pathetic.

Thanks for the amusement POSL.
:lmao:lmao:lmao Could'nt answer the question, which proves my point.


"38%>47%


Regular season stats>Playoff stats"

Cobbler 03/12/2010

:lol

[cobbler]

Couldn't and wouldn't are two different things.

I asked you a question first and offered you a thousand dollars to put up or shut up.

...and it's not that you chose or wouldn't answer. In your case, you couldn't. Because you lied... and you got caught in it.

Your above quote attributed to me was NEVER posted by me. It's all yours and your lack of putting up any proof otherwise.... says it all doesnt it.

ChrisRichards is a two face LIAR and when his back is against the wall resorts to changing the topic and/or personal slams. A sad excuse for a man.