I Want To Just Say There Is No Olympics MVP

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

In Spurs forum I keep read that Manu is Olympics MVP and in Rockets forum I keep read that Scola is also Olympics MVP.

But why do NBA fans keep saying such things? Olympics does not have individual awards. There is no MVPs in Olympics. Only in FIBA competitions like EuroBasket, World Championship and such.

So I just wonder why does Spurs and Rockets fans keep say such things as "Olympics MVP"? Also, in Rockets and Spurs fans they keep say that Scola and Manu won world championship and were world MVPs also. But they did not ever win world championship. When they played world championships it was Serbia and Spain that won them and not Argentina. And neither of them were "world MVPs" either.

Do NBA fans not understand what Olympics and World Championships even are? I see Spurs fans call World Championship "qualifying tournament". Is this serious? Everyone should know world championship is much harder tournament than Olympics, probably twice as hard to win than Olympics. Explain please how the biggest and hardest tournament which is also the WORLD tournament is "qualify tournament'....

No serious person about basketball could say Olympics is comparable to world championship. Even EuroBasket is at very least as high level as Olympics and probably actually a higher level. There are 10th-12th best teams at a EuroBasket that can make top 8 of Olympics rather easy.

So can Spurs and Rockets fans for once learn something about actual international basketball and stop looking so foolish when they talk about it please? Olympics are not more important than world championship and they are weaker in level of competition. Basketball world is not NBA/Olympics.

Even USA Basketball Federation itself admits world championship is = to Olympics in size and prestige. This is stated on USA Basketball official website even. And as I say the level of competition in world championship is much higher than level of competition in Olympics. Olympics is 2nd or 3rd best level in international competition and world championship is first.

Is there reason why Spurs and Rockets fans cannot understand even most basic things about basketball outside of games that Spurs or Rockets are playing in NBA?

[mogrovejo]

To me Ricky Rubio was the 2008 Olympics MVP.

[lefty]

KBP = trolling MVP

[monosylab1k]

To me Ricky Rubio was the 2008 Olympics MVP.

:lol

[monosylab1k]

In Spurs forum I keep read that Manu is Olympics MVP and in Rockets forum I keep read that Scola is also Olympics MVP.

But why do NBA fans keep saying such things? Olympics does not have individual awards. There is no MVPs in Olympics. Only in FIBA competitions like EuroBasket, World Championship and such.

So I just wonder why does Spurs and Rockets fans keep say such things as "Olympics MVP"? Also, in Rockets and Spurs fans they keep say that Scola and Manu won world championship and were world MVPs also. But they did not ever win world championship. When they played world championships it was Serbia and Spain that won them and not Argentina. And neither of them were "world MVPs" either.

Do NBA fans not understand what Olympics and World Championships even are? I see Spurs fans call World Championship "qualifying tournament". Is this serious? Everyone should know world championship is much harder tournament than Olympics, probably twice as hard to win than Olympics. Explain please how the biggest and hardest tournament which is also the WORLD tournament is "qualify tournament'....

No serious person about basketball could say Olympics is comparable to world championship. Even EuroBasket is at very least as high level as Olympics and probably actually a higher level. There are 10th-12th best teams at a EuroBasket that can make top 8 of Olympics rather easy.

So can Spurs and Rockets fans for once learn something about actual international basketball and stop looking so foolish when they talk about it please? Olympics are not more important than world championship and they are weaker in level of competition. Basketball world is not NBA/Olympics.

Even USA Basketball Federation itself admits world championship is = to Olympics in size and prestige. This is stated on USA Basketball official website even. And as I say the level of competition in world championship is much higher than level of competition in Olympics. Olympics is 2nd or 3rd best level in international competition and world championship is first.

Is there reason why Spurs and Rockets fans cannot understand even most basic things about basketball outside of games that Spurs or Rockets are playing in NBA?

Spurs fans do it because they'll do anything to help their retarded "manu > dirk" argument.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Spurs fans do it because they'll do anything to help their retarded "manu > dirk" argument.

I guess this make sense then.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

To me Ricky Rubio was the 2008 Olympics MVP.

Strange thing since Wade was playing probably best in Olympics and his team won gold medal.

[usdane]

I got your Olympics MVP right here buddy @ 8.26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9-MNf2RO5k

[mogrovejo]

Strange thing since Wade was playing probably best in Olympics and his team won gold medal.

Was Wade the Olympics MVP?

[hitmanyr2k]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/bio.html

I guess someone needs to write the nba.com website and have them delete this from Ginobili's bio... named the MVP of the 2004 Olympics.

[mogrovejo]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/bio.html

I guess someone needs to write the nba.com website and have them delete this from Ginobili's bio... named the MVP of the 2004 Olympics.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/bio.html

Nothing about Wade being the MVP of the 2008 Olympics. So I guess it was indeed Rubio.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I got your Olympics MVP right here buddy @ 8.26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9-MNf2RO5k

"Team USA dominated" :rolleyes was a 4 point game with 2 minutes left and Spain did not even have Calderon. Is really funny how NBA fans talk versus what reality is.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/bio.html

I guess someone needs to write the nba.com website and have them delete this from Ginobili's bio... named the MVP of the 2004 Olympics.

There is no such thing as Olympics MVP. For some reason this urban myth exist but it is not real. There has never been any MVP award for Olympics. This is a fact and no matter what NBA.com says that is a lie.

In Athens Olympics they had media write a story that he was MVP. That is all. There is no Olympics MVP award. Never has there been any MVP for Olympics.

[hitmanyr2k]

There is no such thing as Olympics MVP. For some reason this urban myth exist but it is not real. There has never been any MVP award for Olympics. This is a fact and no matter what NBA.com says that is a lie.

In Athens Olympics they had media write a story that he was MVP. That is all. There is no Olympics MVP award. Never has there been any MVP for Olympics.

Sure son, sure. I guess someone needs to write the FIBA site and tell them to stop writing bogus articles about Ginobili being MVP of the Olympic tournament....

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/pres/hist/p/openNodeIDs/6556/selNodeID/6556/fe_pres_hist_flasBack.html

"Emanuel GINOBILI was the MVP of the Men's competition, scoring among others perhaps the most heartbreaking basket of the Tournament, a fall away jumper at the buzzer that gave Argentina the win in their premiere against defending World Champions Serbia Montenegro."


You want to keep failing at this or what?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Sure son, sure. I guess someone needs to write the FIBA site and tell them to stop writing bogus articles about Ginobili being MVP of the Olympic tournament....

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/pres/hist/p/openNodeIDs/6556/selNodeID/6556/fe_pres_hist_flasBack.html

"Emanuel GINOBILI was the MVP of the Men's competition, scoring among others perhaps the most heartbreaking basket of the Tournament, a fall away jumper at the buzzer that gave Argentina the win in their premiere against defending World Champions Serbia Montenegro."


You want to keep failing at this or what?

Are you not able to read? They had media write up he was MVP as a story. There is no actual MVp award. Do you not understand basic logic?

If someone writes a story that you are MVP it does not mean there is an official award. There was no MVP award given just like there never has been in any Olympics.

This is what i am talk about, NBA fans are so clueless about anything in basketball that is not NBA or even more to whatever team they watch.

[hitmanyr2k]

Are you not able to read? They had media write up he was MVP as a story. There is no actual MVp award. Do you not understand basic logic?



Who's "They"? The Church of Manu? Did they pay FIBA to make up a story about Ginobili being MVP of the tournament just to put it in an article :lol

[Indazone]

Well Louis was MVP of the FIBA America's Tournament in 2007 and 2009. That has to count for something.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Who's "They"? The Church of Manu? Did they pay FIBA to make up a story about Ginobili being MVP of the tournament just to put it in an article :lol

There is no Olympic MVP award. It does not exist. You seem to not be able to understand.

He was "MVP" in symbolic way. There is not an actual MVP award to win. Some writers wanted to name him MVP so they wrote that and it seem stupid NBA thought it was an actual award. So now all NBA fans believe this.

Manu is one of my favorite of all time players but truth is truth that there is not MVP awards for Olympics. NBA.com probably is just try to use more stupid marketing gimmicks and that is all.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Well Louis was MVP of the FIBA America's Tournament in 2007 and 2009. That has to count for something.

Yes this is 100% true. But Rockets fans are saying he was "Olympics MVP" and "world championship MVP". These are false. Also Rockets fans are saying he was "Euroleague MVP". This is also false as he was MVP of Spanish league but not all of Europe.

Scola is a great player of course but again Rockets fans is exaggerate on his accolades same as Spurs fans seem are doing with Manu. I do not understand this but I guess it makes sense as was said to make arguments to be better than other international players like Dirk.

[hitmanyr2k]

There is no Olympic MVP award. It does not exist. You seem to not be able to understand.

He was "MVP" in symbolic way. There is not an actual MVP award to win. Some writers wanted to name him MVP so they wrote that and it seem stupid NBA thought it was an actual award. So now all NBA fans believe this.

Manu is one of my favorite of all time players but truth is truth that there is not MVP awards for Olympics. NBA.com probably is just try to use more stupid marketing gimmicks and that is all.

What writers man? Was it FIBA writers? Argentine writers? Who fabricated this story of Ginobili being the tournament MVP and for what purpose? Why did FIBA and the IOC have people vote on an Olympic tournament MVP that doesn't exist?

[JamStone]

Yes there is.

Manu puts the award on display on a shelf in his living room, right next to his "almost NBA Finals MVP" and "Manu>Dirk" trophies.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

What writers man? Was it FIBA writers? Argentine writers? Who fabricated this story of Ginobili being the tournament MVP and for what purpose? Why did FIBA and the IOC have people vote on an Olympic tournament MVP that doesn't exist?

Once again the Olympics does NOT have MVP awards. In 2004 Olympics Greek Basketball Federation was in charge. They gave Manu a symbolic MVP and this was written about. As far as i know this is only time in history MVP was mention in Olympics.

In 2004 there was no actual MVP award given. FIBA and Olympics do not give a MVP for Olympics. Why can you not understand this? It is not hard to understand.

Of course Manu was the most valuable player of Olympics and if there was an award he would have won this award. He was MVP of Olympics. The point is there is not really a real MVP award for Olympics. So is kind of stupid to bring this up to argue he is better than some other players.

In Spurs forum they were argue this makes him better than Kukoc for example. I like Manu more than Kukoc but be realistic. Since there is no MVPs for Olympics you should not really say "Manu is Olympics MVP" or "Scola is Olympics MVP".

Is Duncan MVP of Spurs? Maybe? Is there official award to say this?

In Olympics you get medals and that is it.

[Bukefal]

KBP is right about this hitmanyr2k. There is no mvp in olympic tournaments. That would also be a pretty bit weird because it would undermine the olympic spirit, if such a award was given. Of course, people and media can say a player has been the most valuable etcetera...

But there is no official MVP award at the olympics.

[mogrovejo]

In 2004 Olympics Greek Basketball Federation was in charge. They gave Manu a symbolic MVP and this was written about.

Yeps, every MVP award is symbolic. THe award symbolizes that the recipient was the most valuable player in the tournament. Manu in 2004, Ryan Miller in the recent hockey Olympics tournament and Rubio in 2008.

[Double-Up]

So KBP is right for a change? What the fuck is going on here...

[diego]

Once again the Olympics does NOT have MVP awards. In 2004 Olympics Greek Basketball Federation was in charge. They gave Manu a symbolic MVP and this was written about. As far as i know this is only time in history MVP was mention in Olympics.

In 2004 there was no actual MVP award given. FIBA and Olympics do not give a MVP for Olympics. Why can you not understand this? It is not hard to understand.

The (irony here!) Greek federation then made it so. just look here:

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/event/p/sid/3183/_/2008_Olympic_Games_Tournament_for_Men/history.html

official FIBA site, and lo and behold, there is a column for MVP. and guess what is the only name in that column? Emanuel Ginobili.

So when comparing to other players, manu is so good that he compelled the greek basketball federation to give him an award that till then didnt exist.

as for being euroleague MVP, manu was not, but he was the 2001 Euroleague finals MVP

[JamStone]

I'd like to see the award/trophy. I don't buy it. That just seems fraudulent. I want proof. I want to see a picture of Manu holding an Olympic MVP trophy.

It would seem counter to what the Olympics are about when it comes to team sports.

[Brazil]

Yes there is.

Manu puts the award on display on a shelf in his living room, right next to his "almost NBA Finals MVP" and "Manu>Dirk" trophies.

:lol

[weebo]

Who gives a shit about FIBA basketball!? The real game is in the NBA.

[Mel_13]

Yes there is.

Manu puts the award on display on a shelf in his living room, right next to his "almost NBA Finals MVP" and "Manu>Dirk" trophies.

No.

Mythical awards are kept where such articles of faith belong, in the CoM.

[diego]

what, so you think I hacked the FIBA site or something??!

Look, I agree that it is strange, and there probably isnt an actual statuette or trophy. But for whatever reason, someone in FIBA decided to proclaim Manu MVP of that tournament and they record it that way officially on their site. They made a column for it on their webpage just for him. Just go to FIBA.com, archive, HISTORY. and there it is. I dont see how it can get any more official than that.

[mogrovejo]

It would seem counter to what the Olympics are about when it comes to team sports.

Uh? Why?


Ryan Miller Named Hockey Olympics MVP (http://dailycontributor.com/ryan-miller-named-hockey-olympics-mvp/12247/)

American goaltender Ryan Miller has received a fitting recognition of his tournament-long brilliance on the rink, winning the Vancouver Olympics’ hockey tournament Most Valuable Player award. The 29-year-old had 36 saves during the gold-medal match (http://dailycontributor.com/watch-olympic-ice-hockey-finals-live-usa-vs-canada-live-stream-free-online-video/12237/), which the U.S. lost to host Canada in overtime. He was also instrumental in Team USA’s perfect run to the final, which included an elimination-round victory over the Canadians.It's up the the IGB/national federation to decide pretty much everything about their sports tournament, from the qualifying thresholds to small things like the existence (or not) of awards like the MVP. In Athens there was a MVP award in the basketball tournament and Manu won it. What's so difficult to understand about this?

[diego]

just to check, I looked up the women's tournament... they have a top scorer column and an mvp column, the top scorer is used since 96 (just like the men) but no MVPs...

this is easily the best proof that manu is the best ever, as NO ONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF BASKETBALL HAS THIS AWARD!!! :king :devil :downspin:

:lol

[JamStone]

Lmao, guess that settles it then.

"Best basketball player ever" award to Manu.

[Mel_13]

Lmao, guess that settles it then.

"Best basketball player ever" award to Manu.

You finally see the light.

[Darthkiller]

so KBP are we suppose to take your words over nba.com and fiba.com?

[JamStone]

You finally see the light.

Not sure if you know this, but after Allen Iverson, Manu has been my favorite NBA player over the past decade. And, that's in all honesty. If you followed my postings on this board in the past, you might know that. I love the way Manu plays basketball. I've made Manu collages on my photobucket account. I've had Manu in my sig before.

Challenging biased opinions regarding Manu in no way means I'm hating on Manu or that I don't like him. I will challenge pretty much challenge anything I find interesting if I think it's wrong.

[Mel_13]

Not sure if you know this, but after Allen Iverson, Manu has been my favorite NBA player over the past decade. And, that's in all honesty. If you followed my postings on this board in the past, you might know that. I love the way Manu plays basketball. I've made Manu collages on my photobucket account. I've had Manu in my sig before.

Challenging biased opinions regarding Manu in no way means I'm hating on Manu or that I don't like him. I will challenge pretty much challenge anything I find interesting if I think it's wrong.

Check your sarcasm detector.

[JamStone]

Your response being sarcastic doesn't change my post.

I didn't know if you knew that.

[Mel_13]

Your response being sarcastic doesn't change my post.

I didn't know if you knew that.

I didn't know all the details, but it was obvious to me that you held Manu in high regard.

The sarcastic response was an attempt at humor in answer to your own sarcastic post. Sometimes humor doesn't translate in writing as well as it does verbally.

[IronMexican]

Who gives a shit about FIBA basketball!? The real game is in the NBA.

:tu


Unless it's prospect tape, I don't care what happens over there or in the olympics.

[urunobili]

Yes there is.

Manu puts the award on display on a shelf in his living room, right next to his "almost NBA Finals MVP" and "Manu>Dirk" trophies.

Even sweeter... Manu added to those the "I Shit on the Entire Pistons Franchise" award in 05... LeBron has a couple of those too :tu

[ElNono]

What's with bitter Piston fan? This is not even a thread about Jordan...

[ElNono]

And BTW, I believe Manu's 2004 MVP award came from FIBA, not the IOC. FIBA hands those in almost all tournaments they organize.

[Kori Ellis]

And BTW, I believe Manu's 2004 MVP award came from FIBA, not the IOC. FIBA hands those in almost all tournaments they organize.

I believe this is correct. He wasn't named Olympics MVP by the Olympics committee.. KBP is right -- there are no official MVPs by the Olympics. However, I do think that FIBA named him MVP... either that or the FIBA writer wrote it in a symbolic sense and everyone just thinks he literally won an award. :lol

[mogrovejo]

FIBA awarding the Olympics MVP is no more or less symbolic than FIBA awarding the WC MVP or the NBA awarding a Finals MVP.

The same way that the FIA decides who are the track&field athletes participating in the Olympics or FINA decides what type of suit swimmers can wear.

I'm not sure if people understand what the IOC is.

[JamStone]

Even sweeter... Manu added to those the "I Shit on the Entire Pistons Franchise" award in 05... LeBron has a couple of those too :tu

Nice. When the Spurs win the championship this season, you can shit on me some more.



What's with bitter Piston fan? This is not even a thread about Jordan...

Calling me bitter is pretty funny. I'm a huge Manu Ginobili fan.

I'm also objective.

[urunobili]

Nice. When the Spurs win the championship this season, you can shit on me some more.

lol u mad? :lol



Calling me bitter is pretty funny. I'm a huge Manu Ginobili fan.

I'm also objective.
Your posts the last 48 hours are ruining your reputation as a Manu fan... not that i have lost any respect on you though... :toast

I still believe you're just having fun trolling some...

[fo'shizzle]

just to check, I looked up the women's tournament... they have a top scorer column and an mvp column, the top scorer is used since 96 (just like the men) but no MVPs...

this is easily the best proof that manu is the best ever, as NO ONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF BASKETBALL HAS THIS AWARD!!! :king :devil :downspin:

:lol

Not even Spanoulis??? Fuck!

[JamStone]

lol u mad? :lol

Nope. Thanks for caring though. I'm not the one who started personal attacks. I've been staying on topic.




Your posts the last 48 hours are ruining your reputation as a Manu fan... not that i have lost any respect on you though... :toast

I still believe you're just having fun trolling some...

Not trolling. I'm trying to have real, genuine discussion. Perhaps others are, but I'm not. And not once have I tried to ruin Manu's reputation or my reputation as a fan of Manu. I've given perspective. I really and truly am a huge Manu fan. What I do like to challenge though is over-the-top bias.

In the thread in the Spurs section, I gave a pretty objective opinion. Some people took it as that. Others took it as me trying to bash Manu. I introduced Toni Kukoc into the discussion to bring some perspective to the opinion that Manu is a lock for the NBA. You can take it how you want to take it.

At the end of the day, I think Manu has a good chance at the HOF, but my personal opinion is that it's in no way a lock. Most believe who believe it's a lock believe it is based on his international resume. That's the point I tried to give perspective to. If that's the case, Toni Kukoc has every bit the international resume Manu has, arguably better. But when you think of Toni Kukoc, you don't think at the top of your head that he's a lock for the HOF. Hopefully for some, that brings a little perspective to what I feel is a pretty biased belief that Manu is a HOF lock. If it doesn't, so be it.

[DAF86]

Challenging biased opinions regarding Manu in no way means I'm hating on Manu or that I don't like him.

How can you say that calling Manu the 2004 Olympics MVP is a biased opinion, when is registered in the two most important and OFFICIAL sites of basketball?

If you want, you can say that is bullshit that Manu got one when no other player got one before him, but the fact that he got it can't be disputed.

[JamStone]

How can you say that calling Manu the 2004 Olympics MVP is a biased opinion, when is registered in the two most important and OFFICIAL sites of basketball?

If you want, you can say that is bullshit that Manu got one when no other player got one before him, but the fact that he got it can't be disputed.

Well, that's not the only thing I'm challenging, but because I have yet to see where it's really an actual award, a trophy, real hardware rather than just a title, and it wasn't given by the Olympics (IOC).

It's like if FINA gave Michael Phelps the title "Greatest Summer Olympics Athlete Ever." It's a title. And if it's not from the Olympics, it's not an official award in my mind.

But again, that's not really the "biased" opinions I'm only challenging. This goes to the other thread in the Spurs section as well.

[urunobili]

Nope. Thanks for caring though. I'm not the one who started personal attacks. I've been staying on topic.

Not trolling. I'm trying to have real, genuine discussion. Perhaps others are, but I'm not. And not once have I tried to ruin Manu's reputation or my reputation as a fan of Manu. I've given perspective. I really and truly am a huge Manu fan. What I do like to challenge though is over-the-top bias.

In the thread in the Spurs section, I gave a pretty objective opinion. Some people took it as that. Others took it as me trying to bash Manu. I introduced Toni Kukoc into the discussion to bring some perspective to the opinion that Manu is a lock for the NBA. You can take it how you want to take it.

At the end of the day, I think Manu has a good chance at the HOF, but my personal opinion is that it's in no way a lock. Most believe who believe it's a lock believe it is based on his international resume. That's the point I tried to give perspective to. If that's the case, Toni Kukoc has every bit the international resume Manu has, arguably better. But when you think of Toni Kukoc, you don't think at the top of your head that he's a lock for the HOF. Hopefully for some, that brings a little perspective to what I feel is a pretty biased belief that Manu is a HOF lock. If it doesn't, so be it.


The Almost finals MVP bullshit you brought is both off topic and a trolling attempt. :nope

[ElNono]

I don't know if there was a trophy in that specific case. I would have to ask.
I do know that FIBA in general does award an actual MVP trophy as part of the awards ceremony at the end of tournaments. IIRC, Scola received a trophy as MVP of the Tournament of the Americas in Vegas in 2007 during the awards ceremony.

[JamStone]

The Almost finals MVP bullshit you brought is both off topic and a trolling attempt. :nope

It's in response to many arguments in the thread in the Spurs section who use that as an argument as to why Manu is a lock for the HOF. It's also a joke. It also has to do with Manu, which is on topic.

Your personal attack smelled of venom and was completely off topic. Not sure what the Pistons or LeBron James have to do with this topic in the slightest. But hey, it is what it is.

[urunobili]

It's in response to many arguments in the thread in the Spurs section who use that as an argument as to why Manu is a lock for the HOF. It's also a joke. It also has to do with Manu, which is on topic.

Your personal attack smelled of venom and was completely off topic. Not sure what the Pistons or LeBron James have to do with this topic in the slightest. But hey, it is what it is.

who started it then? I just reacted... you should have kept the almost Finals MVP bullshit on the other hof thread not on here though... :rolleyes

[JamStone]

who started it then? I just reacted... you should have kept the almost Finals MVP bullshit on the other hof thread not on here though... :rolleyes

Lol ummm ok.

[diego]

manu is so open that, one of the people that posts on his forum should ask him if there is a trophy or certificate. I dont see why that changes anything really. Its obvious that it was extremely unusual for him to recieve this distinction because there haven't been any olympic MVP's before or since. And as mogrojevo noted, FIBA is in charge of organizing the competition, not the IOC. I dont see why that would change the value of the award, in fact I would find it more suspiscous if the IOC gave an award for a FIBA organized tournament.

Jamstone is a good poster and has a long rep as a manu fan. I haven't found any of his argument to be offensive. Where I disagree is here:

1) He is minimizing the importance of beating the dream team. 20, 40, 100 years from now, when someone is looking at the history of basketball he will see that a US team of NBA players has only lost maybe 10, 15, 20 times, and that their first defeat in both major tournaments came at the hands of one player, manu ginobili, and that he was the first to win an olympic gold medal against them. Kukoc fans can argue he beat their amateur team, they can argue that he lost to their greatest team ever, it wont change the fact that his name won't come up in the "dream team losses" section of the basketball history books. It was that big of a deal. And if argentina had lost the final, the story would have been about how much the US sucked. But because they won the story was about manu "MVP" ginobili :lol

2) He is assuming that Kukoc doesnt deserve to be in (or that other people think this way). Kukoc has a very good argument to get in. He is just as much of a legend as other europeans in the HOF. Its just that Manu had a better career, and in large part that was because of point 1.

So Kukoc has a good to great chance to get in, and Manu has a great to "lock" chance to get in.

[JamStone]

That's all well and good. I still want to see the actual hardware of this Olympic MVP. Show me and we're good.

1. When people look back to the 1988 Olympics, at least American and NBA fans, do we usually talk about how great that Russian team was? Rarely if ever. It's talked about how that was the last Team USA men's basketball team that was a team of amateurs and not NBA players. I think it's similar for 2004 in that way. Ginobili and Argentina won't be forgotten. Of course not. But, I think at least American fans will remember how bad that team was compared to the first 5-6 renditions (Olympic and World Championship teams) of the Dream Team were. They will remember how most of the best players aside from Duncan and Iverson didn't participate. Kobe in his prime, KG in his prime, T-Mac in his prime, Kidd, JO, Vince among others not participating. I think that will be remembered more, especially to American fans.

2. I don't assume Kukoc doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. That's not why I brought him up in the other thread. It's a rebuttal for the argument many posters made that Manu was a "lock" to be in the HOF. When people have made that argument, it's based on Manu's international resume. I've even read people on here agree that based on his NBA career, he wouldn't get in. Now if that's the argument, Kukoc has a similar argument for the HOF. But, when you think of Kukoc, do you say, "oh yeah, he's a lock for the HOF." Whether you think he has a chance or will, do you think he's a "lock?" That's my point.

I actually do think Kukoc has a chance at the HOF. Not a great chance, certainly not a lock. And, that's what I'm getting at with Manu. I even stated as much several times in the other thread. I think Manu has a good chance at the HOF. I don't think it's a lock.

[BadOdor]

Jam bukkaing over enraged manu knock slobber. manu>dirk lol.

[diego]

and that's why I say, that being the first to beat a dream team (no matter how bad), from a country that never was (and probably never again will be) a power house, is the magic ticket tipping the scales for manu in a way that Kukoc's Mr Europa awards don't.